AIS Airlines Cadet Scheme

[Iselbewohner]

Here is a rather unknown path to the flight deck:

AIS Airlines/Flight Academy and Eastern Airways partner on ?pilot career path? ? Pilot Career News (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/ais-airlines-eastern-airways-partner-pilot-career-path/)

[Officer Kite]

Saw this one yesterday but brushed it off, though upon looking further into it just there it looks a good deal and I've applied !

[cavok2016]

Anybody any idea of the accuracy of the FO starting salary here?

Eastern Airways pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Eastern_Airways)

Also, what does this mean under duty pay: 1.30 GBP/HR 100% taxed? Surely not £1.30 per hour? :rolleyes:

[Intrance]

Seems fairly accurate from what I know from hear-say. I'd guess that the £1,30 is literally extra pay on top of the base salary, per duty hour.

Just think it over once or twice before you sign up. It's a lot of money to pay for flying light turboprops initially. Though I am all for new pilots starting on planes like the Jetstreams, the marketplace does not really support that anymore. It's below 10.000kg MTOM and less than 20 seats on the 31/32, while the 41 just barely tops 10.000kg. A lot of companies don't care about that kind of experience. The Saab 2000 would be the best to hope for. That, or AIS getting their 737 ops up and running in the next two years.

Either way, there will still be cheaper ways to get a frozen ATPL and a more relevant type rating and experience. Not saying 'don't do it' but just look beyond the marketing fluff and compare options.

[cavok2016]

Seems fairly accurate from what I know from hear-say. I'd guess that the £1,30 is literally extra pay on top of the base salary, per duty hour.

That's what I feared - surely starting on £21k even with £1.30 per hour duty pay, is among the worst pay out there, even for a cadetship? :yuk:

[cavok2016]

Just think it over once or twice before you sign up. It's a lot of money to pay for flying light turboprops initially. Though I am all for new pilots starting on planes like the Jetstreams, the marketplace does not really support that anymore. It's below 10.000kg MTOM and less than 20 seats on the 31/32, while the 41 just barely tops 10.000kg. A lot of companies don't care about that kind of experience. The Saab 2000 would be the best to hope for. That, or AIS getting their 737 ops up and running in the next two years.

On your point about the light turboprops - it looks as though this cadetship is intended to feed you to Eastern Airways...The smallest of their fleet being the 42.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Airways#Fleet

[Iselbewohner]

I totally agree that there are both, more desirable cadetships, like AerLingus, and cheaper ways to obtain an ATPL.

But I see it the following way: I´m working as a flight attendant and a lot of colleagues of mine from the cabin have an ATPL, some even a 737 or 320 rating, but they are still stuck in the cabin because they don´t get a job in the flight deck. So at AIS you are in the very good position that you will proceed to a flight deck right after your training, which is in my opinion all that counts if one´s dream is to fly, and then you can go and try to make it to an other company whilst flying on the Jetstream.

Furthermore you will proceed to Eastern Airways onto a bigger turboprop and with the option to proceed to an embraer jet. Of course there are ways, or airlines, to earn more money, but there are ways to earn less, for e.g. not to find a job after your training... and your salary at Eastern will not be the base FO salary, because you will start with a seniority of 3 years regarding your salary.

So all in all I think it´s an way to the flight deck that is definitely worth considering ;-)

[Intrance]

While the smallest in the fleet of Eastern might be the J41, initially you will join AIS Airlines for at least 6 months from what I understand. They only have J32s at this moment. Should you not be selected to continue on to Eastern, you will end up with a dead typerating and perhaps just about 500h multi-pilot by the time you have to make room for the next in line. And I would like to have it in writing that you would enter at three years seniority in Eastern, just to be sure ;). If you are referring to the start date mentioned in the article, I'm not sure that will count for seniority...

It's not a bad way to start out. But pretty damn expensive still. I have flown the J31/32 and have experienced the job market with only experience on that type. It's no fun.

Like I said, just do the math a bit to make sure you are able to make it work. And perhaps have a look at what's next for Eastern Airways as well. They have been losing a lot of pilots (and look, a cadet scheme pops up) and from what I hear it's not the nicest place to be right now.

Sorry if I sound negative, it's not to the detriment of the school or airline. I'd just hate to see anyone spend €150k to fly 20-30 year old turboprops.

[cavok2016]

Sorry if I sound negative, it's not to the detriment of the school or airline. I'd just hate to see anyone spend €150k to fly 20-30 year old turboprops.

No need to be sorry - I think it's worthwhile to hear the experience of someone who has been in a similar situation as this cadetship will leave someone in.

[yankee_alpha]

If you weren't fortunate enough to get selected by Eastern, surely an fATPL + 500 hours on a J31 would put you in a better position for employment elsewhere than the countless white tail graduates that progress straight to easyJet and Ryanair every year?

[Iselbewohner]

Intrance

no need to be sorry at all! Thank´s for your input!

Yes you are right, your seniority probably won´t be 3 years, but your salary will be calculated as if so. I also agree that it is quite expensive. But one can chose between a cheap training (e.g.. BAA), a expensive training (e.g. CTC) or a cadet scheme (if you make it to one). And in my opinion a cadet scheme is the best way, even if it does lead to an J32 first.

You could spend an roughly equal amount of money at CTC, OAA or FTE with an more or less good chance to land a job afterwards, you could spend less money with rather bad chances to land a job or you can try to join a cadet scheme. Of course AerLingus or British Airways offer better schemes, but let´s say one "only" made it to the AIS scheme and now had to chose between a "low cost" academy, one of the "big three" academies or AIS, I´d say AIS is the best shot.

Any further input from you would be much appreciated ;-)


Yankee_aplpha

what´s so bad about making it to easyjet right after your training? It´s an 320 rating and roughly a bit above 800 hours per year, so 2500 on an 320 after 3 years. Sounds quite good to me ;-)

[Intrance]

@yankee_alpha - You'd hope so, but there seem to be a few type of employers out there in my experience while looking for the next best thing;

- They value total time and type of licence
- They want you to pay for your own training and type and seem fairly random in picking candidates
- They quite literally don't value experience on a light turboprop like the J31/32, like factorized hours and stuff like that

I flew the J31/32 for about 4 years and only started getting replies to my applications and calls for interviews after I passed 1500h total time and got my ATPL unfrozen. Even then it was one in many that replied, and often with the requirement of a self sponsored typerating.

I ended up fairly well now, on a regional jet and bonded instead of self sponsored. But don't take the 500h multicrew as a ticket to a job. Some will say it opens doors, that was not my experience.

[Iselbewohner]

I understand that, but how is flying the J32 plus the possibility to proceed to the J41 worse than no flying at all, which is what your are looking into after finishing at an random academy?

[Intrance]

Well, for example, the price of training at AIS used to be €105.000. Now it's €135.000. Part of this is inflation, etc. The other part is that you are paying roughly €20.000 for a J31/32 rating.

Seeing how there are zero to f(ATPL) courses available in the €60k-70k range, you could save yourself a lot of money by doing one of those plus some typerating + hours scheme that has some chance of a contract after. You will spend less and fly a nicer plane in the end, with all the same promises of better things ahead.

There are some of those schemes around that have a near guarantee of a contract after line check since the airlines need crew.

Not saying it's better or worse, just a different option.

[Dusker]

Does anyone have advice for an older, 41, pilot very low hrs. Looking into Europe for training as a US citizen then getting hired there due to less stringent hour requirements and greater supposed demand

Thank you for the great information

[Chris the Robot]

When I read PCN I thought the original course cost was 74,000 Euros (9,500 plus the 65,500) with the loan covering most of it. I didn't realise that the loan with in addition to the 74,000, in which case I'd say shop around and get a better deal.

I personally don't think 130k Euros for a job on an aircraft with a limited type rating job-wise is a wise investment. Particularly when also according to PCN, someone got an offer with Thomas Cook having spent £37k.

[Intrance]

I personally don't think 130k Euros for a job on an aircraft with a limited type rating job-wise is a wise investment. Particularly when also according to PCN, someone got an offer with Thomas Cook having spent £37k.Yep, kind of the point I was hoping to get across.