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Supermouse3
15th Nov 2016, 11:31
Had a visit from Perth airport security to inform me that our hangar roller door must not be higher than the gate which is- 3m high, and practically not climbable! He also remarked that some aircraft tow bars were leaning up against a fence (airside) and they must be 2m from the fence.

Firstly if someone really wants to get into an airport, they aren't going to let a roller door stop them. but thems the rules. how about the time Gate 4 was fully open for about a week- yes its manned, but do they honestly think if someone wants access, security would be able to stop them! They don't even appear to do random bomb inspections of vehicles-
yet they do at Stirling naval base.



Secondly, I thought the idea was to keep people out- not in, the 2m- GSE- fence rule also isn't going to stop anyone getting in.

Thirdly, the federal police presence has been replaced by someone cheap and useless. Granted the feds have i hope better things to do,
But contract security also gives the illusion of security!


I've ranted enough to not even start on the ASIC- but my ASIC doesn't even open doors, I have to have a separate company ID for that!

Is safety just an illusion? Is 'safety' just a series of requirements invented to cover ass? or is there a motive behind it to actually ensure bad things don't happen?

Tuck Mach
15th Nov 2016, 18:14
If airport security were relevant and necessary private contractors would not be the first line of defence from 'terrists'.

That the government rattles on about terrorism and security, but look who owns one company protecting some of Australia's airports...

MSS Security, was acquired by Security and Intelligence Services India India in 2008

If it were real and important it wouldn't be contracted out to third world nations..Sadly modern Australia is a hollow as a rotten log :(

Atlas Shrugged
16th Nov 2016, 01:30
I'm not going to elaborate upon this, but almost everything that is bandied around by these types is nothing short of totally pointless and has no intent other than giving an appearance of doing something.

Jabawocky
16th Nov 2016, 01:38
And no doubt unarmed and untrained at stopping anyone with ill intent.

Checklist Charlie
16th Nov 2016, 06:31
Do not confuse aviation safety with 'security'.

Safety is what we strive for, security is what we are told it is!

CC

neville_nobody
16th Nov 2016, 06:43
I believe 'Security Theatre' is the term

Traffic_Is_Er_Was
16th Nov 2016, 11:50
And no doubt unarmed and untrained at stopping anyone with ill intent.
Which is what the AFP is wandering around armed and trained for.

C441
16th Nov 2016, 22:20
Like most things with at least an element of political necessity, aviation security is primarily about perception. How it is perceived is of far greater importance politically to what it actually achieves.
:rolleyes:

Falling Leaf
17th Nov 2016, 01:58
Walked through the ADL security screening point yesterday, the one that only screens VA staff. There were 6 people working! Hope that was shift change-over, but I'm seeing why the airlines struggle to make a profit...:ugh:

Band a Lot
17th Nov 2016, 03:29
If a truck carrying Lithium Ion batteries had an accident/ broke down and was smoking just east of Johnson Street on the Great Eastern Hwy Bypass.

A 3 meter fence will be no issue to anyone being evacuated to a 500m zone.

Pinky the pilot
17th Nov 2016, 03:40
Which is what the AFP is wandering around armed and trained for.

And just how competent is your average AFP Officer with his/her firearm?

If the training they receive is anything like that which is given to your average SAPOL officer, I would be very, very worried!:eek:

Hint; An acquaintance of mine worked for a few years as a SAPOL firearms instructor. He once said that
"if a Police Officer draws his firearm and fires it at you, stand perfectly still because he won't hit you. If you run, you might just run into the path of a bullet.":}

And; "The average Police Officer is a danger to both himself and the general Public when it comes to the use of their issued firearm.":hmm:

Tuck Mach
17th Nov 2016, 04:47
For those in the know equipment set up is a good guide to competence.

Security theatre it sure is...

Stanwell
17th Nov 2016, 06:16
Oh yes, Pinky.
They'd come down to our range and destroy everything but the target.
To the point where they were no longer welcome.
A worry.
.

Pinky the pilot
17th Nov 2016, 08:10
They'd come down to our range and destroy everything but the target.
To the point where they were no longer welcome.

Now, why doesn't that surprise me?

Lead Balloon
17th Nov 2016, 08:23
Police Shoot Three Elderly Women After Confronting Knife-Wielding Man At Sydney Shopping Centre: Police Shoot Three Elderly Women After Confronting Knife-Wielding Man At Sydney Shopping Centre (http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/06/08/four-people-injured-after-shooting-at-sydney-shopping-centre-re/)

Point blank range and the police winced and turned away while firing, because those gun things are scary and make a big noise. Luckily, only three little old ladies were collateral damage. :ok:

Jabawocky
17th Nov 2016, 09:14
And just how competent is your average AFP Officer with his/her firearm?

If the training they receive is anything like that which is given to your average SAPOL officer, I would be very, very worried!

Hint; An acquaintance of mine worked for a few years as a SAPOL firearms instructor. He once said that
"if a Police Officer draws his firearm and fires it at you, stand perfectly still because he won't hit you. If you run, you might just run into the path of a bullet."

And; "The average Police Officer is a danger to both himself and the general Public when it comes to the use of their issued firearm."

Oh yes, Pinky.
They'd come down to our range and destroy everything but the target.
To the point where they were no longer welcome.
A worry.


Police Shoot Three Elderly Women After Confronting Knife-Wielding Man At Sydney Shopping Centre: Police Shoot Three Elderly Women After Confronting Knife-Wielding Man At Sydney Shopping Centre

Point blank range and the police winced and turned away while firing, because those gun things are scary and make a big noise. Luckily, only three little old ladies were collateral damage.

Pinky :D Your friend is correct. In fact many police are not licensed shooters that can go to a range and train, besides the vast majority of ranges will not allow the kind of practise they would need to do anyway. I know of only one in Qld so there could be a handful nation wide. But they would have to do it at their own expense and jump through all the stupid requirements in order to do so.

And I could go on and on for hours. Mrs Jaba and I have been privileged to have had excellent training by the worlds best instructors at the worlds premium training academy. We were told bluntly that it was a sad reflection on training standards worldwide that we (and the other graduates over the last 40 years) were trained better than >95% of the police and all but the elite special forces folks. And we know we could do with a lot more training. The more you know the more your realise what you do not know.

Rather humbling.......and scary to say the least. We were told we would view the world very differently, and they were correct.

To Stanwells point, your observation is far from unique, most ranges and folk I know in the industry report similar things. I shoot more rounds on a Tuesday night than the police do all year, you possibly do too. And their qualification session is not under any stress. But good training costs cubic cash, that they do not have.

Pb Balloon has quoted a classic case of lack of training to the power of six. Rule No. 4 of firearm safety is "Be sure of your target and what is beyond it". That was epic fail right there. A well trained officer would have dropped to ground level, on one knee or moved a few paces to the right to improve the background of the target. Under pressure that gets tough, but that is what training is about.

And lastly, how many police get issued with Crimson Trace Laser Grips? Only the SERT/TRG type folks, and they are the ones who train the hardest all year. Average Joe/Joanne on the street...nup, the ones who need a green laser grip on their S&W-M&P or GLOCK get nothing.

So back to the AFP folk lightly sprinkled around a facility, if the shit hits the fan, they would be better off giving my wife their equipment in many cases, for their protection and mine. ;) As our chief instructor yelled out to the class.....Shoot like a GIRL if you can, after she rolled a young lad with credentials.

Last of all, remember the AFP or any state police will do their best at writing the report and mopping up the mess, but when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Usually 10-20 minutes. They do offer a same day service guarantee though.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was
17th Nov 2016, 13:19
Hey, I didn't say they were any good, I was just pointing out that there is an armed and trained ( to at least some level) response on airport.

Pinky the pilot
19th Nov 2016, 06:37
I shoot more rounds on a Tuesday night than the police do all year, you possibly do too.

Exactly, Jaba! I'd go through about 180 to 200 rounds of 9mm a month. I load my own.

And I know one thing; I could do with heaps more training!!:=

The last I heard re SAPOL annual requalification shoots; Each 'beat Copper' was given twelve rounds. :eek:

an armed and trained ( to at least some level)

A perfect example of the old saying; A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Bonegi1
19th Nov 2016, 19:33
I worked for aviation security (not in Australia) for about 6 months after I finished flying. If the bad guys want to cause mischief they will because, with a little research, they can bypass security relatively easily. The main thing we did was remove DGs from clueless pax. For example, carry on baggage with full camping gas canisters, a bloke with a stove with petrol in it, a kid with a very lifelike replica pistol in his backpack, mining explosives etc etc etc. The security side of the job was about perception, the safety side (DGs of pax) was 'accidental' but probably more important.

porterpat
20th Nov 2016, 03:01
Went through screening @ph for a domestic flt and noticed person checking hand luggage xray screen reading magazine. Asked for supervisor and pointed this out, I'll look into it was his reaction, mine was more to the point. This happened 18 months ago.