Lion Air Flight deck position B737

[new_era]

I have recently received an email from Rishworth about the new improved T&C at Lion Air Upgrade Captain position on B737:

- 6,850$ + 750$ housing for the 12 first months
- 10,000$ + 750$ + 1000$ (travel allowance) after that
- Bali Base available

Please, can anyone shed some light about the recruitment process and share any experience about the position and Lion Air?

Happy landings!

NE

[Chocks Away]

Yes I've also been monitoring the various ****e theses thieves have been throwing out to prospective suckers.
Have nothing to do with these rogues and that includes most of their contracts!
They savage pilots wages and use that money to give kickbacks to the airline, while they live off the cream! Talk to the airline direct and learn.
Happy Landings.

[pfvspnf]

Yeah don't do it . Some things are more important than a command upgrade

[new_era]

Thank you guys for the reply.

Choks Away, should I understand that it might be an acceptable move if dealing to the airline direct or maybe through another agency?

pfvspnf, could you please expand a bit about the reasons (the agency or Lion itself)? I have no information at all concerning the life over there so if you can share you're experience it is highly appreciated!

Happy landings!
NE

[jetjockey696]

New_era... you must be rich too.. they asking for 18K USD for the upgrade. deposit into a account.. just in case you run away. It will be return to you after 5yrs.. if you last that long. High kill rate in Lion..many captains and few first officer heart attack due to stress, lack of rest etc. if you like life complicated and full of surprises..no roster, all scheduling done by SMS.

you be worked very hard for your USD salary. guarantee 90hrs per month.. guarantee 4 days off a month. no more than 4 days, otherwise you are not productive.

Pfvspnf....is right, there are some things in life more important.

there are a few companies, one is Bangladesh... doing the upgrade program and a company in europe.

[new_era]

Thank you indeed gentlemen for the answers.
If I was rich I wouldn't be here....however I think 18k is fair compared to 42k with ek, qr, ey or 82k with kac, for the same bond period of 5 years. The only difference is that you pay when joining with Lion or when leaving with the rest, is that right?
You're right about the roaster, it is crucial but currently I'm doing aroung 95h a month as well. Thanks again anyway!
Happy landings
NE

[snorelion]

Me too. I would like to go and live in Bali..

the roster looks horrible ...

New_era?? so did you go to bali now?

[new_era]

I will go in january and I'll give updated info to anyone who are interested

[pilotchute]

Ah the Bali base! I think every expat that has gone to Indonesia has been told they can have a Bali base. Just ask the Garuda and Wings guys.

[jetjockey696]

Pilotchute is right... its a ploy to get more expat pilots in. they will keep tangling that carrot and work you hard, until you have forgotten about bali or tired of asking..

Many moons ago, lion said they are going to have many bases around indonesia. Medan, surabaya, bali, makassar, manado. none have materialized. only one base JAKARTA. there was a base in Bali.. locals would be chosen first. besides there is no need for lion to have bases around the country.. since the way they operate..

By the way new regulations from the government...

"Foreign pilots are facing fresh restrictions on flying in Indonesia as the government has issued a regulation banning them from working for more than two years so that airlines must recruit unemployed local pilots

The regulation, issued recently in the form of an official letter from the Transportation Ministry’s Directorate General for Air Transportation, became effective on Sept. 23. It made exceptions for foreign pilots with special skills, such as instructors, helicopter pilots and pilots operating in remote areas."


Rules tightened over foreign pilots in Indonesia - Business - The Jakarta Post (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2016/10/31/rules-tightened-over-foreign-pilots-in-indonesia.html)

[new_era]

I think I'll go there and I'll tell you if I get the Bali base,..but I even Jakarta is not that bad. Pilots in the middle east complain about roaster, management style, local vs expat, those who are in europe complain about taxes, in china about real T&C vs what is promised, in africa about instability and infrastructures, quality of life...So where would we go?!?

[YFloyd]

Don't expect an easy roster, I have spoken with dozens of former and current Lion expat Capts. Often working 6 days on 1 day off, schedules changed late the night before, being asked to fly on your day off etc

Senior Indonesian Capts keep changing their schedule asking for easier or preferred flights. A few expat Capts have even referred to having their FO taken away from them after reporting for duty by a high status Indonesian Capts who like flying with the FO, on some occasions literally while walking to the aircraft!

Scheduling and rosters there are a mess and have been for years.

Perhaps it has all recently improved ......?

[pilotchute]

New era,

If indonesia fits your needs then it can work. Remember that standards are pretty low and the culture can be frustrating. Here are some rules to follow.

1. The indonesian way is best.
2. If you know a better way see rule one.

With this new 2 year rule designed to help unemployed locals, just remember that with standards that low anyone who still hasn't got a job shouldn't be in an airplane.

[vlkyplky]

Yes I've also been monitoring the various ****e theses thieves have been throwing out to prospective suckers.
Have nothing to do with these rogues and that includes most of their contracts!
They savage pilots wages and use that money to give kickbacks to the airline, while they live off the cream! Talk to the airline direct and learn.
Happy Landings.
I checked with airline directly as well as some other agencies. The TCs for Lion Air cpt are the same for both direct or agency.

[vlkyplky]

I will go in january and I'll give updated info to anyone who are interested
I PM you... good luck on the assessment

[new_era]

vlkyplky, thank you very much indeed!
Gentlemen, thanks for your inputs and comments. I'll try to get the maximum amount of info regarding what is going on there as well.
Happy landings!
NE

[737seeker]

so if there is a regulation limiting expats to 2 years, how is it possible to sign a legal 5 year contract with Lion ? or the B737NG upgrade is also exempted from this rule ?

thanks

[new_era]

I'm sorry to inform you that Lion Air has stopped the upgrade program B737 NG due to instructions from the authority. Despite some agencies continue to advert, the program is on stand by for an undefinite period of time.

[snorelion]

oh New_era
thank you for the info..
but how about you? did you join the program ?

[Iznogood]

Fresh news: the authority accept again the upgrade program after negociation from the airline. Maybe not indefinitely....TOGA

[Newcomer2]

Check pm Iznogood

[Iznogood]

Newcomer2&737seeker>check your inbox

[muhu737]

Hey guys...just saw the command upgrade FO to Capt by lion air,,Can anyone confirm the P1hours gained from lion command is recognised by DCA Malaysia....kinda blur on this matter..since I have all P2 hours now..I'm scared later if it's not recognised

[new_era]

Why they shouldn't? However as I understood you have to make sure that your dgca accepts to endorse your left seat qualification in your original license (no restriction) because you gonna fly under validation for all the time you fly for Lion Air.

[737seeker]

hi Folks,

is here any hope this hold on senior expat FO recruitment at Lion Air is gonna be lifted anytime soon ? i managed to rack up my 1000 hrs on type just now and i am really keen to apply at Lion. i.e even without the offer of the upgrade.

my current employer will be laying off expat pilots in few months so i need to find a job urgently.

thanks

[JOSHUARYU]

Hi..!!If you do have some infos about screening items in Lion air,can you pls advise me items;;1. Written Test2. Interview Test3. Psychological Test*4. Internal Medical Test*5. Flight skill assessment..Many thanks in advance

[Hispeedflutr]

Don't expect an easy roster, I have spoken with dozens of former and current Lion expat Capts. Often working 6 days on 1 day off, schedules changed late the night before, being asked to fly on your day off etc

Senior Indonesian Capts keep changing their schedule asking for easier or preferred flights. A few expat Capts have even referred to having their FO taken away from them after reporting for duty by a high status Indonesian Capts who like flying with the FO, on some occasions literally while walking to the aircraft!

Scheduling and rosters there are a mess and have been for years.

Perhaps it has all recently improved ......?

Roster is a mess not only because crew request. They have too many airplanes already but demand is not too high. On daily basis they will combine flights, trying to save airplane flight hours and fuel, ending up requiring more crew if they cancel the the middle sector.

Crew control/scheduling can and will call you even when you just about leave home or on the way for the airport because to ‘minimize delay’ or lack or pilot on certain flights. It’s a domino effect. Crew who’s inbound to CGK will be called to extend duty, at times this means another layover. The only time you’re save from this if you’re already on your sixth day duty (not legal on the 7th under Indonesian CASR)

[Hispeedflutr]

If you’re interested after reading this...

Interview: several management pilot will throw you questions, stabilized approach elements, memory items, CRM

Simulator: RAW data with two engine, No FD, NO AP, No AT. just the old fashion way. Departure, climb to low altitude while interecepting a VOR radial. Steep turn with 45 degrees bank. ILS approach, go around at minimums and join the downwind for visual approach. And then the fun part for rated candidates. FD and AT may be turned on, takeoff with V 1 Cut, ILS engine inoperative with FD with reasonably low ceilings/visibility to assure your ability to fly.

Salary is good for expats only. Local is receiving lower numbers. There you go, be prepare to face jealousy.

Roster is unstable as they have too many airplanes, they try to sell as many seats on as many flight as possible but at the same time they will cancel flight not meeting BEP on daily basis. You can say to have a stable roster is only a dream. To have a consecutive days off while in the country is impossible except if it’s in your contract.

Be prepare to buy your own uniform. They give you the cap, tie and wings. You can use Boeing or Hard Rock Cafe lanyard as they don’t give you one.

Don’t drive to fly. Use taxi to report to HQ located several miles west of CGK 2 hours before STD and then proceed to the airport try to reach there 1 hour before.

Normal roster will be 3-4 days away from base (it’s only CGK despite the Agency is trying to sell DPS for you). Be prepare to have surprises every time you’re on the last sector to CGK as Crew control will try to put you on another flight and another layover. That’s to be expected on weekends. A one day trip will usually consisting of a 4 short sectors/landings or 2 long sectors. Normal turn around time is 45 minutes. If you’re expecting a day off then it’s normal to land at CGK very late in the evening and report early morning after just 1 day at home. When you’re on rest time don’t be surprised if scheduling is calling because of roster change... they are just doing their job... seriously..they don’t know it’s against regulation.... just save the flight.

Expect to reply to schedule revision SMS on daily basis. If you don’t check in then they will send the SMS again. Still no reply? They’ll call and finally the fleet manager will call you.

CASR flight time limit is like FAA... 30/7 days, 110/months, 1050 annually. But JT is putting the carrot by offering double the money after you reach a certain hour every ten hour. It will be really tempting as some will bust the limit..no the authority doesn’t really care.. and your record will be safely erased (finger crossed). The show must go on!

A young guy from a rich family (the money for the flight training) will be usually your flying buddy. While most are good in normal flying many think familiarizing with the memory items (limitations, NNCs, maneuvers) is an exaggeration. You can see puzzled face if you engage them in the topics. Some are even worse, they don’t brief at all just says “Briefing standard” ...yeah do it just like yesterday. Takeoff and landings ... been there done that.

Airplane: Maintenance wise expect some MEL items open expect when the airplane’s age is relatively young (1-2 year). Be really careful reading the MEL as English standard is poor, they could put the indicator as being inoperative while it is actually the system.

If you are adventurous about food and like spice (hot spicy) go ahead have the crew meal. Don’t expect it will be a proper lunch or dinner. Think as if it’s a snack before you buy your own meal. And also hygiene and quality with crew meal is an issue.

There you go...you’ve been warned
Cheers...

[Nashville]

Folks,
Looking for any information on the latest DGCA Indonesian Meteorology Exam. I am sitting the Exam in 2 weeks.
Any info would be Of assistance.....
Cheers;

Nash

[Love PanAm]

A young guy from a rich family (the money for the flight training) will be usually your flying buddy. While most are good in normal flying many think familiarizing with the memory items (limitations, NNCs, maneuvers) is an exaggeration. You can see puzzled face if you engage them in the topics. Some are even worse, they don’t brief at all just says “Briefing standard” ...yeah do it just like yesterday. Takeoff and landings ... been there done that.


Welcome to Indonesia!:ok:

[Super Cecil]

A young guy from a rich family (the money for the flight training) will be usually your flying buddy. While most are good in normal flying many think familiarizing with the memory items (limitations, NNCs, maneuvers) is an exaggeration. You can see puzzled face if you engage them in the topics. Some are even worse, they don’t brief at all just says “Briefing standard” ...yeah do it just like yesterday. Takeoff and landings ... been there done that.


Welcome to Indonesia!:ok:
Also maditory that all pilots smoke, cockpit starts to fill with smoke before startup and continues till disembarking. This with below standard aircon and pax are breathing secondhand smoke the whole trip.