Defence review 56 sites to close by 2040

[KPax]

Just broke on BBC, seems a long way off to announce closures. I guess that leaves the RAF with Brize, Waddington, Coningsby, Marham, Odiham and a training base somewhere.

[Pegasus107]

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/584051-more-closures-sept-16-a-4.html

Gives full details of closures

[Al R]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37902141

[pr00ne]

RAF escapes pretty lightly from that lot, all closures previously announced and confirmation that it is Halton airfield to go.

a lot of previous RAF sites are for the chop though, among them;

Abingdon
Chivenor
Brawdy
Hullavington
Colerne
Dishforth
Tern Hill




And still NO mention of Linton On Ouse?

[DON T]

Add Spitalgate.

Previously an OCTU and WRAF training camp

[MPN11]

I curb my aged whimpering by reminding myself that the RAF is 1/3 the size it was when I left, and most places I ever worked/lived are now dead and buried. My wife could expand the list considerably*.

I recall staffing something at MoD about the closure of Upavon, and how it was deemed fundamental to RAF History. I also recall reading some impassioned writings/writhings from VVSOs on the topic.

Wiki ... Many of the buildings at Upavon still stand from its original construction. The officers' mess is a fine example of British military architecture. It was built in 1915, and prior to the RAF's departure from Upavon, was the oldest RAF officers' mess in use. It is designated as a Grade II* listed building.

* Jointly: Feltwell, Manby, Strubby, Binbrook, Tengah, Watton, West Drayton, Uxbridge, Bentley Priory, Upwood, Locking, Lyneham, Bracknell, Adastral [;)]

[stewyb]

So, do we assume front line bases are the following:

Fast jets - Lossie, Coningsby, Marham
Basic/Advanced fast jet training - (Linton?), Valley
Tanker/Transport - Brize
Surveillance/Intelligence - Waddo
Maritime - Lossie
Helicopters - Odiham/Benson


Will there be any further changes?

[MAINJAFAD]

Swinderby, Locking, West Raynham, Newton, Bishops Court, Ty-Croes, Saxa Vord for myself. As for the rest, most of the places I worked at are gone or have been out sourced to contractors. Neatishead (CRC) and Coltishall (accommodation), both sections at Coningsby and the building at Henlow I worked in is on the Airfield site. Could chuck Hereford and Bentley Priory on the list as I did courses there as well. Only two sites I actually worked at are still going, Trimingham and Spadeadem.

[ian16th]

Lindholme, Hemswell, Yatesbury, Compton Bassett, Middleton-St.-George, Thornaby, Binbrook, Watton, Bassingbourne, Locking, Gaydon, Finningly...........

[Pegasus107]

You are forgetting North Luffenham (St George's Barracks), Swanton Morley (Robertson Barracks), Debden (Carver Barracks), Woodbridge (Rock Barracks).

[rolandpull]

Rotary beyond Wildcat and Merlin is still to be finalised looking at the Army pages on this paper.

[Wokkafans]

Full report here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/565858/20161107_MOD_Better_Defence_Estate_FINAL.pdf

[stewyb]

Yeovilton will be chocker with Wildcat (RN & AAC) and Culdrose with Merlin fleet. Don't see where else wokka and Puma can go apart from continuation of Odiham and Benson. They dovetail now with wokka OCU moving to Benson and Odiham being full with another 12 cabs, along with the mk6 training centre currently being constructed. Was there not talk previous of Middle Wallop being looked at for closure?

[Jimlad1]

I suspect Merryfield will be a bit busier - possibly hosting capacity from Yeovilton?

Meanwhile, although we see some closures, don't forget that 90% of the Defence Estate is staying open...

[aw ditor]

Kinloss to remain "open"?

[airborne_artist]

Yeovilton will be chocker with Wildcat (RN & AAC) and Culdrose with Merlin fleet.

I can't imagine that CU will have any more Merlins than it had in the 70s/early 80s with Gazelles of 705, SKs of 706 and the four pinger squadrons and the Wessex of 771, plus the 750 Jetstreams. We had LH and RH circuits running together most days then ;)

It's pretty quiet at the moment. I was there last month.

[Arclite01]

and Scampton of course.

Arc

[Talk Split]

So, does that mean CHF moving to Culdrose? That will be news to them...

[NutLoose]

RAF Mildenhall, Alconbury and Molesworth among MOD sites to be sold - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-35346003)

Ministry of Defence sites for sale



RAF Mildenhall, Suffolk
RAF Barnham, Suffolk
RAF Alconbury, Cambridgeshire
RAF Molesworth, Cambridgeshire
Kneller Hall, Twickenham
Claro and Deverell barracks, Ripon, North Yorkshire
Lodge Hill, Kent
Craigiehall, Edinburgh
HMS Nelson Wardroom, Portsmouth
Hullavington Airfield, Wiltshire
MOD Felton, London

Surely they could utilize one of those for London's third runway.

[[email protected]]

Apparently an MP was overheard mentioning that one base that has recently had a simulator built there would be closed - Odiham fits that bill and the MP had just been there.

What they need to do is reopen Lyneham as an airfield and put the AH force and maybe some SF assets in there. It is now only the REME trg center as the tri-service tech trg school didn't appear to survive first contact. The solar farm is allegedly not making much money and Lyneham is perfectly placed for access to SPTA for helicopter trg.

Wonder where the Commando Logisitics Regiment will go when they close Chivenor (again)!

Shouyld never have closed Greenham Common as that would have been a perfect 3rd runway for London.

[GeeRam]

Surely they could utilize one of those for London's third runway

How?
Given the only two of those sites that are actually anywhere near London (Kneller Hall & Feltham) don't even have a runway....????

[KPax]

I noticed the closure of the school at St Athan with Cosford being expanded, Shawbury is also taking a bigger role.

[VX275]

Apparently an MP was overheard mentioning that one base that has recently had a simulator built there would be closed - Odiham fits that bill and the MP had just been there.


Benson also fits that description and could be expected to be talked about at Odiham

[Wetstart Dryrun]

Thank heavens for keeping RAFC Cranwell safe....

[NutLoose]

How?
Given the only two of those sites that are actually anywhere near London (Kneller Hall & Feltham) don't even have a runway....???? Mildenhall is about double the distance from London that Gatwick is, and is a closer proposition than some mentioned for Manston being reopened.

[NutLoose]

Benson also fits that description and could be expected to be talked about at Odiham I wonder if the toss of the coin will simply be based upon the property market and the value of the site on that basis?

[NutLoose]

24 Engineer Regt,
Royal Engineers
& Commando
Logistics
Regiment
Consolidation in the Plymouth/
Torpoint area. HM Naval Base
Devonport / HMS Raleigh –
subject to further work

[NutLoose]

Amport House
Armed Forces
Chaplaincy
Centre
Re-provision to be
determined

I suppose the term "God only knows" may well be fitting.

Still at least the bad guys can likewise reduce their assets, as it will take less to wipe the remaining establishments out.

[NutLoose]

Ministry of Defence sites for sale

RAF Barnham, Suffolk

Taken in October

Report - - RAF Barnham Cold War Atomic Weapons Site - October 2016 | 28DaysLater.co.uk (http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/raf-barnham-cold-war-atomic-weapons-site-october-2016.t105831)

Interesting reading

Yeah, English Heritage recognised that this is the only place of its type so worked with the owner to make safe some of the key structures, in particular the bomb storage buildings and their verandas which had been suffering from crumbling concrete. Thank you mate... no definitely not demolition, its now a scheduled monument being the most complete example of its kind (there was only ever two and the north base only has its main buildings remaining now, all but three of the safe house have been demolished). So who the heck would consider buying it?

[Roadster280]

Taken in October

Report - - RAF Barnham Cold War Atomic Weapons Site - October 2016 | 28DaysLater.co.uk (http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/raf-barnham-cold-war-atomic-weapons-site-october-2016.t105831)

Interesting reading

So who the heck would consider buying it?
Eskimos?

Hat, coat, taxi for one please.

[superplum]

Taken in October

Report - - RAF Barnham Cold War Atomic Weapons Site - October 2016 | 28DaysLater.co.uk (http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/raf-barnham-cold-war-atomic-weapons-site-october-2016.t105831)

Interesting reading

So who the heck would consider buying it?

It's only the domestic site up for disposal, the training area will remain in use.

[814man]

Barnham was not the only such old nuclear storage facility, Faldingworth was an almost exact replica and to be honest the buildings were better preserved when I did my survey back in 2002: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sd814/albums/72157604584974658

[ExAscoteer]

Nutty,

RAF Barnham is the training area used by the Regt boys out of Honington (as well as my Cadets). The old nuclear storage facility is on the western edge and outside the training area.

[NutLoose]

Thanks all for clearing it up.

[ExAscoteer]

This should explain.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.3880088,0.720716,1506m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

BBKingz is the old SSA

[racedo]

How the hell does it take 24 years to close 56 sites.................. in fact judging by list I have seen how does it take longer than 6 years ?

Given that it took less than 6 years to sort some minor territorial issues out between 1939-45.
Mind you to be fair, MOD property weren't involved there, otherwise it might still be going on :rolleyes:

[NutLoose]

Racedo, they have to find the funding, to resurface the roads, build new accommodation and swimming pools, before they can close them. It's standard military practice, just look at the crap that goes into marching out of quarters that will probably be never inhabited again, such as at Larbruch etc.

If you look at the list they still haven't got a clue where they are going to relocate everyone, it also makes you wonder with the declining situation in Europe and the rise in Russian global aspirations, along with a change in the tenancy at the White House, whether in the intervening years the USA may take a fresh look at their UK bases and possibly reverse their decisions to close them.
It takes a brave person to forecast future needs 24 years in advance and unlike a lot of military bases, airfields are probably the most expensive to build along with the no doubt public objection and endless public enquirers simply to get it to the stage where you can cut turf. I cannot envisage a new Airfield ever being constructed in the UK, what ever happened to care and maintenance?

..

[Heathrow Harry]

maybe we move to a "new model" where the armed forces live amongst the Great British Public and commute into work each day.... think of the savings!!!

[NutLoose]

I noticed the closure of the school at St Athan with Cosford being expanded, Shawbury is also taking a bigger role.


Didn't I read somewhere some pongoes were moving in?

[SirToppamHat]

[email protected] wrote:
Should never have closed Greenham Common as that would have been a perfect 3rd runway for London.

Which, it has been suggested, was why they dug much of the runway up to make hard core for the Newbury By-pass.

[pr00ne]

Nutloose,

Been many hundreds of "Army people" at St.Athan for years, there are going to be many hundreds more. The Royal Signals folk from Cawdor Barracks, or Ex RAF Brawdy, were going to be moving in but they are now slated to be "subject to reprovision," when Brawdy is disposed of.


Greenham Common?

I think the fact that you have the Atomic Weapons Establishment at one end of the runway plus Newbury at the other meant that as a civil airfield Greenham was always a non starter.

[tmmorris]

Has Newbury moved, then?

[Melchett01]

Quote:
Benson also fits that description and could be expected to be talked about at Odiham

I wonder if the toss of the coin will simply be based upon the property market and the value of the site on that basis?

This was discussed on an earlier thread, I really don't see either Benson or Odiham as being up for sale. I know Benson would probably generate a fortune for the MOD, although I can't see the residents of Ewelme being particularly happy about a housing estate on their doorstep. There isn't room to move from one to the other, so where are you putting one of the (if not the) world's largest CH-47 fleets outside of the US if you close either of those down?

As for
Thank heavens for keeping RAFC Cranwell safe....

If they do get round to moving Airman training to Cranwell to consolidate all Phase 1 training at one location, then you might have to change your definition of safe. If that were to happen it would become a very different Station.

[Wander00]

Probably have to bring back the ban on cadets going into Sleaford imposed after a fight here involving cadets and airmen. Al Deere lifted the ban in about 1964. Had not realised how little we had missed.

[NutLoose]

I was shopping opposite Chetwynd Barracks today, lots of nice new buildings on the site, shame they're shutting it, with the way things are going, you would think they would design any new buildings as prefabricated units that could be moved.

[Cpt_Pugwash]

Nutloose:-
"I cannot envisage a new Airfield ever being constructed in the UK, what ever happened to care and maintenance?"

Resource Accounting and Budgeting (RAB) happened, that's what! At least, the poorly implemented version used by the MoD. A cost for everything, and the value for nothing.

[Jimlad1]

Nutloose - I thought the same, but it turns out there are two different Chetwynd sites that share the same bit of land.

The Reserve Estate (e.g. Royal Engineers and HMS SHERWOOD) is, I believe, staying put and not closing. What is going instead is the very old part of the barracks that is in pretty poor condition. Having done a number of courses there recently, that part of the site is not in a good way.

What is more interesting is going to be whether any developer wants to buy doubtless contaminated land, with a veritable rabbit warren of tunnels beneath them from the old ordnance factory that dates back to WW1?

[Arclite01]

Jimlad1

They were more than happy to buy land like that when the old Royal Gunpowder Factor (later RARDE)Waltham Abbey closed.....................

Glad I don't have a house on that site...............


Arc

[NutLoose]

And the area covered by buildings in Basingstoke that sit on the site of the old Smiths ( I believe ) instrument factory, and a lot of the radioactive residue from manufacturing the aircraft gauges ended up in the ground.

[NutLoose]

Interesting that on the list to close is :-
RAF Henlow
Technical Site
and Airfield

But on this list ( from 2011)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/dec/20/mod-radioactive-world-war-two

It states

Contaminated sites

1. Sites not previously known to have been contaminated with radium:
HMS Daedalus, near Portsmouth: former naval air base
Defence Aviation Repair Agency Gosport, Hampshire: former aircraft repair depot
RAF Henlow, Bedfordshire: air base
Still, they will save a fortune on street lightning.

[NutLoose]

Run-down MoD estate threat to defence, says audit watchdog - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37978589)

[Lima Juliet]

^^^^^Regarding Above^^^^^

I am staggered at the lack of maintenance activity across the Defence Estate in the last 15 years or so. It would appear to me that contractors and their sub-contractors have been allegedly lining their pockets at our expense. This should be a job for the Fraud Squad rather than the NAO!

Building new estate is not the answer either. These modern builds fare even worse than the old buildings. Just the other day I was staying in a SLAM block that was less than 10 years old - it looked tired and dirty with various areas looking in need of refurbishment (paint peeling, water stains and threadbare carpets were the superficial areas, but also windows were poor fitting, metal doors had worn out and stairs had physically worn out). So new build is not the answer either UNLESS we have a decent maintenance and cleaning contract. On my Station the cleaners aren't allowed bleach based products or any form of decent domestic cleaning product, so all they do is push the dirt/grime around with weak detergents and water.

On maintenance the outrageous quotes that are coming from the Regional Prime Contractor is eyewatering. An example is a £25k quote to fix a hangar skylight panel - local roofing contractors are quoting £5k-10k for the same job and they have all the HSE certificates required to do the job. The material to fix the skylight is <£100 so someone is making a lot of money!!!

So the big ticket items don't get fixed, over the years they deteriorate further until DIO exclaim "it's cheaper to demolish and build again" (which it isn't if you don't use the Regional Prime Contractor - conflict of interest anyone?) and then they build a shiney new building and then don't look after it properly - after 15 years it looks like a bag of cr@p and the whole cycle goes around again.

It makes my blood boil and it needs to be gripped. If we still owned RAF Finningley, Duxford IWM, RAF Church Fenton, RAF Bicester, etc... then their hangars would be comdemned by our DIO and be up for a mahoosive demolition and rebuild - so how come the commercial companies that now own these estates continue to use these very same hangars without demolishing them and rebuilding?!!! :ugh:

The whole thing is a farce and as ever the tax payer is the loser due to public sector incompetence...IMHO of course!

LJ

[Wander00]

On the other hand when I took over most of the building at the hen MPA in 86 ISTR they were lifed at 15 years. Saw them on "Island Parish" the other week and they still look fairly good

[Hangarshuffle]

Some one sent me the list of closures the other day... probablyits for the best that most of them go. I mean HMS Nelson wardroom is hardly even used (because we have no RN now). Get it sold and convert it to nice flats. A lot of the buildings are old and in need of refurbishment anyway.
What we need are fewer old estates and more modern central military bases that are secure and fit for purpose. Face it, MOD has a big estate with big history and it needs to reduce its costs and minimize as well. Its a bit like Marks and Spencer in a way. Time moves on.

[NutLoose]

Problem with Marks and Spencer is for some reason they do not do home deliveries, what is the point of ordering food on line then having to drive into a congested town centre, park up, pick it up from the bloody store yourself, then hump it all back to the car and again back into the home.

I still get amazed they close Airfields, put Pongoes on them and close barracks, heck you can build a barracks, but an airfield is another thing entirely.

[Lyneham Lad]

As a slight aside, I was in Malmesbury Abbey recently, finishing off a roll of film. Pictured is Hullavington's ensign, kept in the Abbey along with their Freedom of the Borough of Malmesbury scroll.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/Lyneham_Lad/General/HullavingtonFlag_zpswlnoenjs.jpg

[Arclite01]

I agree with Nutloose and Hangarshuffle


Time does indeed move on
We do need fewer but more secure bases
We can't just build airfields in 5 minutes - but will we ever need them again in the numbers we once had ?? (and if we did we would just take over any Civilian airfield we wanted if the emergency was that great)
The best solution is to move Army Units into disused RAF bases where money has been spent on facilities (and the large buildings and hangars suit storage and logistics) but separate the Airfield from the base by use of fences. That way we keep both facilities............ sadly it's too late for this approach now in many cases with bases sold off and redeveloped.
Also we can't escape from the MoD Accounting system which absolutely punishes anyone who keeps any asset that isn't earning it's keep immediately.................


Sad but True..................

Arc

[Hangarshuffle]

On Radio 4 PM show now they are highlighting the housing shortage crisis. I would hope that a lot of the real estate to be sold is made into affordable housing for UK citizens if I'm honest. I've no doubt a few shady deals will be done as well. A lot of those buildings will surely become highly desirable flats, apartments and palms will be greased..

[chopper2004]

There is hope ladies and gentlemen , if they can bring back to life :cool:Bletchley in its new role albeit under private corp

Bletchley Park: 'Codebreakers school' planned for site - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38065563)

Then the posiblities are endless ....and never know all the former airbases could be raised from the dead and have FJ courtesy of the likes of Draken Intl, Discovery :E:p HHA, Cobham, Airtanker lol

cheers

[Haraka]

Looking at the plans for the sell -off of RAF Brampton, I was intrigued as to what was the intention for the old BPOM mess (i.e Brampton Park House) under the developers.

Community and Regional Clinic Centre?, Training School? , Military Museum of Brampton?
Small Business's start up site? First buyers' Flat complex? Sheltered accommodation for war veterans? etc.etc.

Nope.

"Private House"

For whom?

I wonder.

[Always a Sapper]

If you think about it moving the Army into a disused airfield and then selling off the now redundant army base makes more sense than keeping the squaddies where they were and then selling the airfield off.

As already stated, compared to a new airfield it's a pretty simple task to build a new barracks.

I think that you will find that the runways on most, if not all of the airfields that have been closed and then re-occupied by the army are nearing a major maintenance moment along the lines of a re-surface or more and that does not come cheap add that to the worn out aviation fuel delivery/storage/dispense facilities and the cost soon ramps up notwithstanding the contractor's tax on top and it's just more nails in the close it down coffin being built by the MOD's accountants.

Still, one advantage with the army moving in is the easy re-generation of the airfield should it be needed. Principle being that it was already an airfield so it's a refurbishment and the local planning complainers and nimbies are already behind in the curve.

Question, could the recently closed (RAF wise) Wiltshire place be re-generated reasonably easily? Could the runway be used now if it was swept?

That said I don't think the new blocks would far very well if say a couple of VC10's or a Tornado 4 ship were to come and play take off/landings for a few days...

[Hangarshuffle]

Mate we need an entire rebirth. Even I will admit as an ex RN we need entire fresh and radical thinking about military bases and where they are located and why so. That in relation to where we are in our capacity as a nation within the mid 21st century to deliver hard power or even soft power. or independently defend ourselves....
Can we even do that correctly, these days? Answer, er...no.
From a naval point of view..long shot....keep Yeovilton, keep Culdrose and therefore keep Merryfield and Predannack as Sats. Close a traditional old Naval Base (to save cash and also sell). Possibly re-build a new Naval Base somewhere that reflects our current surface fleet thinking...1 carrier/6 Daring class/some support ships...
That's it.
For the latter..maybe our ships should be somewhere deep, wide....Humber...Clyde (difficult politically)...Wales...? Cheaper than Portsmouth or Tamar...

[AtomKraft]

What about Scapa?

[Cows getting bigger]

I understand that Halton have just been told the whole camp will close by 2022, not just the airfield.

[Arclite01]

So recruit training going where then ??

Arc

[Heathrow Harry]

why does it take 24 years to achieve this???

[NutLoose]

Quite simple Harry, they are planning ahead to the strength they are expecting the military to have been slashed to by then, that and the cynic in me says you don't close anywhere on your watch as it will be seen in those constituents as loss of jobs and revenue to the area, far better to plan on the premise that you might get a second or third term in power, but by the time these come about, the country will be sick of your policies and you will have been kicked into touch and some other poor bugger will be in power to face the backlash. :E

Plus a period of 24 years will allow the budget to be spread out over that time for the necessary expenditure when closing an establishment, new pool and leisure facilities built, roads resurfaced, accommodation rebuilt and renewed, runway relaid, the usual stuff you do before you shut a place. :p

[downsizer]

Recruit training is off to Cranwell.

[Wander00]

That will be Sleaford out of bounds to officer cadets again then.....

[Heathrow Harry]

Nut - I think you'v e got it - I really should have thought it through.....................

"Who Profits?"

[aw ditor]

Wander00

Junior Entries only' into Slush'.

AD'

[Wander00]

aw - when I was at the Towers ISTR Sleaford was out of bounds to all cadets until Al Deere arrived as AsCom and slashed and burned his way through College Standing Orders

[Just This Once...]

I find it astonishing that DIO keeps moving the goalposts. The time, money and effort spent on plans to move from a location, to another yet-unspecified / unfunded location that slowly morphs into an actual location, before that 'final' nominated location also gets its own closure notice.

The arrogance & incompetence of DIO and its apparent ability to spend, move or force transitional costs and expenses on FLC budget holders is breathtaking.

[aw ditor]

WanderOO

I think in my time at the Towers (mid 50s) the rule had been introduced post a "confliction" in Sleaford between the then Flight Cadets and the Apprentices from what was then East Camp. When the Apprentices went off to Locking, no point''.

AD

[The B Word]

The arrogance & incompetence of DIO and its apparent ability to spend, move or force transitional costs and expenses on FLC budget holders is breathtaking.

I couldn't agree more. However, our lords and masters are equally accountable for not holding them to account. I heard a rumour that the sale of Henlow and Halton will raise about 1/4 of the monies needed to pay for the build of facilities for RAFCAM, Recruit Training and NCO/WO upgrade training at Cranwell - plus the relocation of at least 25 lodger units. The extra money needed would renovate the old estate and maintain it for at least 20 years. Just how we have the audacity to say that we need more money in our infrastructure budget is completely beyond me.

The wholesale sell off of the MOD's main estate is not a money saving exercise at all, it appears to be just gross mismanagement. We did it with our Familes' Quarters in the late 90s and now we're doing it with our main estate. The only winners will be the companies brought in to sell off and so-called 'manage' the remainder. Further it always amazes me when the MOD sells off infrastructure saying that it is rundown and not worth renovating only for a commercial company to renovate and make large profit afterwards! :mad:

Rant over and out...

[Wander00]

AwDitor - rule still in CSOs in 63

[Easy Street]

The wholesale sell off of the MOD's main estate is not a money saving exercise at all, it appears to be just gross mismanagement

I don't think the sell off has been spun as a savings exercise. The Government would like you to think that it is about releasing land for housing in order to deal with the affordability crisis. The only time money ever gets mentioned is a weak promise that proceeds of land sales will be reinvested in Defence. This sounds perfectly reasonable as a 30-second policy announcement, which is all the Cameron governments ever cared about: to hell with minor details like the fact that housing affordability varies wildly by location, driven by jobs and net migration of 300k+ per annum. Never mind that developers will just cherry-pick the best sites (such as Halton), leaving the rest to rot (Brawdy, anyone?) or be rented out as low-grade commercial sites. So you are right about gross mismanagement: the Government would be better off incentivising developers to build on the land they already have access to, or perhaps even building some housing itself.

[Lima Juliet]

EZ

That's what I've always thought - why doesn't the MOD build its own houses on the land and then sell them for profit? Otherwise, it's the developer and house builders that make the real money whilst the MOD makes buttons for selling off the family jewels!

LJ

[Whenurhappy]

I was involved in infrastructure management for quite sometime and but the level of incompetence was astounding, so I allowed my career to take anotherpath. The RAF have not employed professionally qualified staff since the 1960s - it's been a career for enthusiastic 'also-ran' Admin/Secretarial/Pers Spt officers.

The DIO and the forces have been incompetently managing the estate for avery long time - much of it is not fit for purpose and decades of underinvestment has left many facilities in a point of no return. I visited two MOBs and a naval base recently - the domestic accommodation was dire; much of the technical accommodation (apart from contractor-provided) was in a similarly parlous state. I'm a keen historian but the time to be sentimental is over. Most bases need to be demolished and started from the in-ground infrastructure upwards.

NEM possibly points to the future of accommodation provision - the old model ofOfficers' and Sgts' Messes has got to go. Given that mobility is reduced for most SP, more support to living in the community should be given. Meanwhile, the MOD must be the only employer on the planet that bills its workers for accommodation on overseas postings!

[Ali Qadoo]

LJ
...why doesn't the MOD build its own houses on the land and then sell them for profit?


Can you imagine a house built by the MOD? Fifteen years late, ten times over budget, a heating/cooling system that only works between 15 and 20 degrees C, half a roof, and you can't get up to the bedrooms because nobody asked for stairs in the specification. :)

[Heathrow Harry]

and probably sub-contracted to BAe so it would cost £ 10 mm a pop.....................

[Pontius Navigator]

As for building housing, affordable or otherwise, on disused airfields, we have looked at several ex-airfield building sites and very few are places I would want to live. By definition the sites are remote locations built away from normal habitation. Building even expensive housing can't escape the fact that it lacks infrastructure and character. The last we drove passed was Upper Heyford. As I said, unattractive area compared with Lower Heyford.

[NutLoose]

Can you imagine a house built by the MOD? Fifteen years late, ten times over budget, a heating/cooling system that only works between 15 and 20 degrees C, half a roof, and you can't get up to the bedrooms because nobody asked for stairs in the specification. http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gifYou missed fully fitted carpets because they touch two walls, heating that comes on and turns off at set dates regardless of there being a heatwave or 10 foot of white stuff up against the doors and record temperature lows, and is pumped from a building 2 miles away, so when it goes down the whole estate does too..

[Blacksheep]

A slight problem with selling off RAF Halton is that it isn't just Halton House that is Grade II listed. Unlike the airfield, sports grounds and the now demolished PMRAF Hospital Halton, the whole of Henderson-Groves Barracks is Grade II listed as well. That will make it quite unattractive to developers who will have to get the site unlisted before they can begin demolition. The value of the site as development land is considerably reduced.

[JimmAttrill]

I spent two years at Halton, one year on 3 Wing and one on 2 Wing. Are either the "Henderson-Groves" barracks? When Halton goes that means that all the stations I served on have gone - Halton, Watton, Cottesmore, Wittering, Wildenrath and back to Wittering.

[Pegasus107]

Wittering and Cottesmore still going strong. Wittering is RAF A4 hub and Cottesmore gone across to Army as Kendrew Barracks.