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meadowrun
3rd Nov 2016, 05:31
"The England (https://www.theguardian.com/football/england) and Scotland football teams will wear black armbands with poppies on when they meet on Armistice Day at Wembley, after their respective associations said they would defy any attempt by Fifa to ban them.

An increasingly febrile day of debate over the issue, including the prime minister, Theresa May, telling parliament that Fifa’s stance was “utterly outrageous” and football’s world governing body making it clear that it would not acquiesce, ended with both FAs making it clear that they planned to wear the symbol.
Fifa (https://www.theguardian.com/football/fifa) secretary general Fatma Samoura told the BBC that the English and Scottish FAs should be ready to face sanctions if they broke rules on what it considers to be the display of a political symbol.
“Britain is not the only country that has been suffering from the result of war. Syria is an example,” said Samoura, the Senegalese former United Nations official who was appointed Fifa general secretary earlier.
“My own continent has been torn by war for years. And the only question is why are we doing exceptions for just one country and not the rest of the world?”" Guardian


Yes, your continent is a total mess and shows little hope of improvement. Blame yourself.
The exception is not for one country, not that your exception is needed, it is for a whole host of countries and untold numbers of brave men and women who are not here to slap you down.

rjtjrt
3rd Nov 2016, 05:43
The only response is to totally ignore FIFA and wear the poppy/armband, as both associations apparently are.
FIFA can go to hell.

TWT
3rd Nov 2016, 06:17
Easy way to make FIFA forget about their threat of sanctions.Just send Samoura a brown envelope with some cash in it.Job done !

KelvinD
3rd Nov 2016, 08:20
I notice that, while FIFA constantly repeat the "no religious, political or commercial" messages mantra, they have still not made it clear which of these they think the poppy falls under.
What is very clear though is that FIFA thought nothing of the Republic of Ireland wearing shirts commemorating the 1916 Easter Uprising.
I will be marching along Whitehall on November 13th with 10,000 fellow veterans and I can predict how the conversations will go on that morning!

B Fraser
3rd Nov 2016, 08:34
Do we need FIFA ?


The time for Fexit and a new organisation to be created is long overdue. Russia 2018 and Qatar 2022 has shown that they cannot sink any further.

Trossie
3rd Nov 2016, 08:37
Along the lines of TWT's comment:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/Matt%20homepage/0311-MATT-PORTAL-WEB-P1-small.png

bhx bod
3rd Nov 2016, 10:29
FIFA needs to remember that footballers as well as many other sporting stars of that era were called up for duty during both wars and many never came back.This was not just a British thing either,as other European and World sports stars fought in many campaigns throughout the World.They deserve to be remembered,honoured and for us to be thankful for their service and sacrifice along with all other service personel and civillians who did the same thing.Many had no choice either.
What is the difference between the poppy campaign and the FIFA backed 'kick racism out of sport'.Wasn't WW2 a campaign against one of the Worlds most repulsive racists???

VP959
3rd Nov 2016, 10:45
The statement by the Secretary General of FIFA on the news last night showed that she was completely and totally out of touch with the meaning of the poppy as a symbol of remembrance, and too dim-witted to have learned of the history of many of the major FIFA nations for whom this is a symbol of remembrance of those killed on ALL sides of conflicts since WWI.

Akrotiri71
3rd Nov 2016, 10:57
Free poppy placards to be given to each spectator prior to entering the gound, & to be held up by all during both national anthems.
Phuq FIFA!

ATNotts
3rd Nov 2016, 12:19
The problem is that to at outsider looking in, the whole poppy thing, combined with the remembrance day ceremony could easily look like a political event - even though it's not.

Where FIFA have firmly shot themselves in the foot is when they allowed Ireland to wear symbols commemorating the Easter Rising!

KenV
3rd Nov 2016, 12:37
The problem is that to at outsider looking in, the whole poppy thing, combined with the remembrance day ceremony could easily look like a political event - even though it's not.Agreed. That said, it is equally "easy" to get the tiny smattering of education necessary to understand that this is not "a political event." That FIFA's leadership is unwilling to get that tiny smattering of education speaks volumes, none of it good.

racedo
3rd Nov 2016, 13:42
So where were the Poppys being worn by the players whose Brothers / Uncles / Fathers wee actually in WW2 ?

They never were and it was kept out of football, just like it should be now.

Sallyann1234
3rd Nov 2016, 13:55
I'm sorry racedo but I have to disagree. .

As those with direct memories of the war pass on, it falls to later generations to demonstrate that we will never let the sacrifices be forgotten. I will wear my poppy with pride and hope that others will take every opportunity to do so. National sporting teams seem an excellent opportunity to display this important symbol. .

Kakpipe Cosmonaut
3rd Nov 2016, 13:58
Can't we get footballers banned for wearing visible tattoos bearing religious/political/commercial symbols?
Please?

ATNotts
3rd Nov 2016, 14:00
Can't we get footballers banned for wearing visible tattoos bearing religious/political/commercial symbols?
Please?
Sounds good to me!

racedo
3rd Nov 2016, 14:17
As those with direct memories of the war pass on, it falls to later generations to demonstrate that we will never let the sacrifices be forgotten. I will wear my poppy with pride and hope that others will take every opportunity to do so. National sporting teams seem an excellent opportunity to display this important symbol. .

Nope because it has now become a demand that you should wear it.

On another thread I highlighted where a Republic of Ireland player born in NI gets abused because he refuses to wear one.

Andy_S
3rd Nov 2016, 16:42
Nope because it has now become a demand that you should wear it.

On another thread I highlighted where a Republic of Ireland player born in NI gets abused because he refuses to wear one.

I sort of understand where you’re coming from with respect to poppy wearing being effectively mandatory, but it’s such a benign and harmless act that It simply beggars belief that anyone could take offence. It is not a political statement, it’s a simple gesture of remembrance; an acknowledgement that many people gave their lives so that we could live ours free from tyranny. And that includes the idiot of a professional footballer who seems unable to distinguish between the British army in Northern Ireland and the sacrifices made by those who gave their lives in order that he could display the chip on his shoulder.

VP959
3rd Nov 2016, 16:50
I sort of understand where you’re coming from with respect to poppy wearing being effectively mandatory, but it’s such a benign and harmless act that It simply beggars belief that anyone could take offence. It is not a political statement, it’s a simple gesture of remembrance; an acknowledgement that many people gave their lives so that we could live ours free from tyranny. And that includes the idiot of a professional footballer who seems unable to distinguish between the British army in Northern Ireland and the sacrifices made by those who gave their lives in order that he could display the chip on his shoulder.
I agree, and would add that it should be a personal choice as to whether or not to wear a poppy during the period around Armistice Day. The idea of mandating that someone, like a football player, should be forced to wear one is not one that I would support.

Having said that, a lot of Irish people died in both World Wars, and the wearing of the poppy should not try to be used by a few narrow-minded people as a political symbol; FIFA are alleging that to be the case right now, and they are simply wrong.

lomapaseo
3rd Nov 2016, 16:58
Over here we have displays of solidarity with Black Lives Matter etc. etc.

Pretty soon this will extend to Trump and Hilly and then to support of the NRA and/or poppy wearers.

IMV sports is for sport and not personal beliefs thus I wont watch anything paid that strays beyond my values.

YMMV so express it any way you wish on your money.

racedo
3rd Nov 2016, 17:31
And that includes the idiot of a professional footballer who seems unable to distinguish between the British army in Northern Ireland and the sacrifices made by those who gave their lives in order that he could display the chip on his shoulder.

Statement regarding James McClean - Letter to Chairman Dave Whelan (http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/news/article/14-11-07-statement-regarding-james-mcclean-2070059.aspx)

Doesn't seem an idiot in the above to me.
Remember reading this at the time and though he was being open and honest.
Unlike most here I am a football fan and a regular attendee, not for his club though.

KelvinD
4th Nov 2016, 07:46
An interesting statement from him and well written. Unfortunately for him, he has made his personal feelings well know, being born in the UK and going to a lot of trouble to be allowed to play for the Republic of Ireland. That, along with his piece on Bloody Sunday, show he has a political agenda which sort of squares the circle with the FIFA nonsense. He is effectively making a political statement with his anti-poppy stance. I think he is misinformed and is wrong in his decision but it is his decision and he quite entitled to it, whether or not I agree with him. Meanwhile, FIFA, as ever, don't have a clue. And I too am a football fan. I won't say which team but here's a clue: Man United lost again last night. Great celebration in this house!

ORAC
4th Nov 2016, 08:17
Perhaps he might care to wear the Centenary Irish Poppy Pin?

Home - Royal British Legion - Limerick Branch (http://rbl-limerick.webs.com/)

http://rbl-limerick.webs.com/Over%20the%20Top%20Canadians%20square%20(Small).png

DON T
4th Nov 2016, 08:38
He didn't seem to object to wearing a symbol on his shirt when he came on as substitute for Ireland against Switzerland in March 2016.

Tankertrashnav
4th Nov 2016, 10:58
Very interested in that Irish poppy pin, ORAC. After decades of ambivalence about their own countrymen's participation in the 1914-18 War the Irish are finally coming round to recognition of their sacrifice, starting with the first major commemoration of the war, attended by President McAleese on the 90th anniversary of The somme in 2006. It should be remembered that all Irishmen who fought in the Great War were volunteers - there was never any conscription in Ireland, unlike the mainland, where it was introduced progressively from 1916 . My own Irish grandfather who had moved to Scotland in the early 1900s served in the British Army as a volunteer from 1915 onwards, but always kept very quiet about it when he moved back to what was by then the Irish Republic in the 1930s because of a general hostility to those who had fought in the war.

SARF
4th Nov 2016, 11:00
The home nations should leave fifa.. it's so corrupt it's embarrassing
Just start a new World Cup from scratch. Or better still a commonwealth cup. Get the USA involved..

Una Due Tfc
4th Nov 2016, 11:13
A lot of the ambivalence towards the Irish who died in WWI was due to there being no "good" guys in that war, it was a bunch monarchs and governments of colonial powers feeding their people into a meat grinder.

Indeed there was never any conscription here, the British powers that be recognised that introducing it would cause open rebellion. There were articles calling on Irish people to go and defend the liberty of the Belgians, when our own had been voted for numerous times in Westminster only to be blocked by the house of Lords, so that caused a great deal of consternation according to historians.

An utterly pointless war. Thankfully now we recognise just how sad the whole thing was. At least WWII was fighting against madmen.

Una Due Tfc
4th Nov 2016, 11:19
Like most of these arguments about how people choose to acknowledge the sacrifices made by previous generations in times of war.

The fact you have the freedom to choose is acknowledgement in itself.

I suspect Mr. McClean would view his ability to choose being despite the British armed forces, not because of them. That wouldn't necessarily be a viewpoint I would share, but regardless I reckon it's the one he has.

meadowrun
4th Nov 2016, 11:20
Tragic but hardly pointless. The point was to get the Germans out of conquered countries and stop their territorial lust. Stopped only for awhile as we had to do it all again a few years later.

Una Due Tfc
4th Nov 2016, 11:32
Tragic but hardly pointless. The point was to get the Germans out of conquered countries and stop their territorial lust. Stopped only for awhile as we had to do it all again a few years later.

Ah but were not the Allies doing the same in other parts of the world? It was a different time.

Anyway I think this whole FIFA thing is nonsense, especially when you consider the teams involved.

racedo
4th Nov 2016, 12:44
An interesting statement from him and well written. Unfortunately for him, he has made his personal feelings well know, being born in the UK and going to a lot of trouble to be allowed to play for the Republic of Ireland. That, along with his piece on Bloody Sunday, show he has a political agenda which sort of squares the circle with the FIFA nonsense. He is effectively making a political statement with his anti-poppy stance.

First he has always had a right to play for Republic of Ireland being born in the Island of Ireland, anybody born in the Island has a right to an Irish Passport.................... additionally as born in Northern Ireland he could play for any of the home nations.

His statement on Bloody Sunday highlights that as Poppy is used to commemorate ALL WARS then he refuses to wear it bceause of the actions of the British Army in his native city.

If used to commemorate WW1 and WW2 then it is different however the expansion to include every conflict is what makes it unaccptable to him and this is something I know many others.

Andy_S
4th Nov 2016, 12:54
His statement on Bloody Sunday highlights that as Poppy is used to commemorate ALL WARS then he refuses to wear it bceause of the actions of the British Army in his native city.

But the Poppy does NOT commemorate wars. It honours those who gave their lives and serves as a symbol of remembrance of their sacrifice.

If Mr McClean can't make that distinction then he is most definitely an idiot.

Blacksheep
4th Nov 2016, 13:31
I was out 'selling' poppies again last night and as usual there are lots of people who donate but don't take one. It's a personal matter and I care not if one wishes not to wear a poppy, but there's no need to make a fuss. Those who they commemorate haven't a care in the world, but the most important thing isn't the poppy - it's remembering their names and what they stood for.

VP959
4th Nov 2016, 13:48
I was out 'selling' poppies again last night and as usual there are lots of people who donate but don't take one. It's a personal matter and I care not if one wishes not to wear a poppy, but there's no need to make a fuss. Those who they commemorate haven't a care in the world, but the most important thing isn't the poppy - it's remembering their names and what they stood for.

Very sound words. There have been times when I've not worn a poppy, because of where I was. It has never, ever, stopped me standing to attention in silence at the 11th hour, of the 11th day, of the 11th month though, not once, wherever I was.

mini
4th Nov 2016, 14:50
FIFA now investigating the issue of ROI with 1916 emblem on their shirts during a recent fixture - vs Switzerland I believe?

Surely as an entity FIFA is now bordering on unviable? The IOC can't be too far behind them either...

wiggy
4th Nov 2016, 15:56
Surely as an entity FIFA is now bordering on unviable?

I almost wonder if it's all got a bit quiet at FIFA and somebody realised if their office wasn't seen to be investigating something, anything and getting media coverage jobs would go ( obviously only at the lower ecehelons of FIFA, I'm sure Fatma Samoura has a job for life).

The IOC can't be too far behind them either...

Oh I think the IOC is much much worse.....

radeng
5th Nov 2016, 00:11
Now it can't be impossible that any known official of FIFA attempting to enter the UK can be stopped under the Prevention of Terrorism Act and suitably interrogated for a few hours before being deported? Since it's such a corrupt organisation, there must be some legislation about allowing criminals to enter the country.......if they can't be arrested and charged here.

OTOH, I don't give a damn about football anyway. Waste of money that could well be better spent elsewhere. And tax the over played players at 95% on any pay over £100k a year.

ExSp33db1rd
5th Nov 2016, 06:45
...........at the 11th hour, of the 11th day, of the 11th month

Few years ago we had an elderly ( well he seemed Elderly to me then ! ) gentleman come to our Aero Club and ask if he could fly our then new microlight (aka LSA ) aircraft. Turned out he was a retired air force/ commercial pilot, subsequently he advised that he had got married in London during WWII and had married at 11,11,11. 1944, said the ceremony had to be delayed 2 minutes, 60 years later, he flew his bride at 11,11,11. ( not sure if he stopped the engine for 2 minutes ? )

Nice.

2 sheds
5th Nov 2016, 07:22
Is a bunch of overpaid prima donnas kicking a ball around a field under a variety of inconsequential rules really an appropriate vehicle for a public display of respect and remembrance?

2 s

VP959
5th Nov 2016, 10:14
Few years ago we had an elderly ( well he seemed Elderly to me then ! ) gentleman come to our Aero Club and ask if he could fly our then new microlight (aka LSA ) aircraft. Turned out he was a retired air force/ commercial pilot, subsequently he advised that he had got married in London during WWII and had married at 11,11,11. 1944, said the ceremony had to be delayed 2 minutes, 60 years later, he flew his bride at 11,11,11. ( not sure if he stopped the engine for 2 minutes ? )

Nice.
What a great thing to do.

I once found myself in the air on the 11th hour of 11th of the 11th, and I'd admit to not stopping the engine, but I did throttle back, turn off the radio, and just glide straight and level for a couple of minutes, remembering three lost friends from 1982 and the things my grandfather must have endured flying over France in 1916/17.

Similarly, I remember flying in the company of two other A/C down to Abbeville years ago, and we'd all been chatting to each other until we got to the Somme. The chatter stopped, with no one saying a thing, as we flew over the still visible shell craters and the graveyards and memorials.

radeng
5th Nov 2016, 12:11
2 sheds,

Totally agree with you.

Spunky Monkey
5th Nov 2016, 13:54
In 2014, the Argentine National Team unveiled a banner protesting against the British Occupation of the Malvinas.

Although fifa stated that it would investigate and sanction the team, I cannot find if they were ever sanctioned.

This to me is less about the Poppy and represents to other issues.
1. It was the Daily Telegraph and the FA that rocked fifa and caused despicable and corrupt individuals to lose their place at the trough.
2. fifa is made up of Football Associates from countries that really have a dubious past record and blame the UK for its past. They would love nothing better than to stick one to their colonial masters and honkies as a whole.

We should just ignore fifa, wear the Poppy with Pride and just launch another investigation into them, if they say anything. Ban a few of the wives from these tinpot countries from shopping in London...after a couple of months we would be allowed to play football with Lord Kitchener face emblazoned on the front of our shirts.
They don't like it up 'em.

2 sheds
5th Nov 2016, 14:12
Hasn't that Wear the Poppy with Pride slogan been dropped now, even by the Royal British Legion? Not much pride when those deserving men and women have to be supported by a charity, rather than by the government of the country that sent them to war, particularly in the case of pointless escapades in Afghanistan and Iraq.
It's that jingoistic aspect that deters many people from flaunting their support of what has been made very PC - q.v. every presenter on TV being virtually required to be adorned!

2 s

racedo
5th Nov 2016, 14:21
It's that jingoistic aspect that deters many people

Tis evident on here

Tankertrashnav
5th Nov 2016, 17:34
An interesting item by Ben MacIntyre in today's Times. Post Great War, Earl (formerly Field Marshal) Haig was very active in the British Legion and enthusiastically promoted the sale of poppies to support ex-serviceman. The fund became known as the Haig Fund, and older PPRuners will remember that the black centre of the poppy used to be embossed H.F. to commemorate its former patron.

Haig of course has swung in and out of favour over the years. In the 20s he was a national hero, to the extent that Macintyre says that more people turned out for his state funeral in 1928 than turned out for Princess Diana. Later on, of course, opinion swung against him and he became the butcher of The Somme. Those whose Great War studies consist solely of watching Oh What a Lovely War and the 4th series of Blackadder may still hold to that view, but after 100 years it is surely time for a more objective view of the man, although I guess we wont be seeing 'H.F' back on the poppies any time soon.

2 sheds
5th Nov 2016, 17:46
more people turned out for his state funeral in 1928 than turned out for Princess Diana
So the great British public does have some sense of priorities then!

2 s

blue up
5th Nov 2016, 18:20
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/foggythomas/14650274_10209464368299784_3292691536809708731_n.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/user/foggythomas/media/14650274_10209464368299784_3292691536809708731_n.jpg.html)

neila83
5th Nov 2016, 19:01
But the Poppy does NOT commemorate wars. It honours those who gave their lives and serves as a symbol of remembrance of their sacrifice.

If Mr McClean can't make that distinction then he is most definitely an idiot.
No he's not an idiot. Do you really struggle that much with anyone thinking for themselves? He has perfectly valid reasons not to wear a poppy. The jingoism that has increasingly surrounded it in recent years has devalued the entire point of it. Your argument seems to be everyone has to wear it, whatever, or they are an idiot? Not very well thought through. He has shown more self awareness and actual consideration of the issue than the vast majority of people who pop one on to 'support our boys'.

Until 5 years ago no footballer ever wore a poppy and no-one cared. Suddenly the media start going on a witchhunt as part of their ongoing campaign to whip up nationalism for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the good of the country, and everyone acts all indignant about something they never previously cared about. People really need to start caring about things other than those the media tell them to, it's wrecking the country.

VP959
5th Nov 2016, 19:39
No he's not an idiot. Do you really struggle that much with anyone thinking for themselves? He has perfectly valid reasons not to wear a poppy. The jingoism that has increasingly surrounded it in recent years has devalued the entire point of it. Your argument seems to be everyone has to wear it, whatever, or they are an idiot? Not very well thought through. He has shown more self awareness and actual consideration of the issue than the vast majority of people who pop one on to 'support our boys'.

Until 5 years ago no footballer ever wore a poppy and no-one cared. Suddenly the media start going on a witchhunt as part of their ongoing campaign to whip up nationalism for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the good of the country, and everyone acts all indignant about something they never previously cared about. People really need to start caring about things other than those the media tell them to, it's wrecking the country.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Each and everyone of us should have a free choice as to whether or not to pay tribute to those, on all sides, that gave their lives so that we can enjoy the democracy and freedom we now have.

For each and every one of us, Armistice Day will have a different, personal, meaning. Many of my Irish family and friends feel relieved that they now have the freedom to recognise, and respect, the sacrifices members of our family made in order to give us all the freedom we have today. Had we not overcome both the territorial ambitions of certain parties in WWi, and the political and racist objectives of WWII, then Ireland would not be a free Republic, any more than the United Kingdom would be a free constitutional monarchy. Both states would be a part of the Third Reich, a potentially worse outcome for Europe then the EU.

For me, Armistice Day means, at a personal level, remembering three friends I lost in 1982, together with the experiences of my grandfather flying over France, his crash and the chance meeting between him and my grandmother, a VAD nurse, who helped him recover from the terrible burns he'd suffered. Without that chain of coincidence, I'd not be posting here (something that some might be grateful for..............).

Sallyann1234
5th Nov 2016, 21:28
I just wanted to add to my previous post that whilst everyone should be free to wear the poppy, it is a course a voluntary activity and equally no-one should be obliged to do so.

rjtjrt
5th Nov 2016, 21:34
I just wanted to add to my previous post that whilst everyone should be free to wear the poppy, it is a course a voluntary activity and equally no-one should be obliged to do so.

I agree. Well put.
No one should be made, or feel obliged to wear a poppy, and equally no one should be prevented/banned from wearing a poppy in remembrance.
There is far too much of people trying to decide for others what they can and can't do. Far too much codifying of things that should be left to common sense rather than codified.
The old addage of live and let live seems to have largely been forgotten.

Tankertrashnav
6th Nov 2016, 00:03
What they said ^^^

:ok:

neila83
6th Nov 2016, 00:12
I agree. Well put.
No one should be made, or feel obliged to wear a poppy, and equally no one should be prevented/banned from wearing a poppy in remembrance.
There is far too much of people trying to decide for others what they can and can't do. Far too much codifying of things that should be left to common sense rather than codified.
The old addage of live and let live seems to have largely been forgotten.
Spot on. And the lynch mob should bear in mind that many people may like to donate to the cause but may not feel the need to parade their support through the poppy, particularly when sections of the media begin attaching the symbol to a form of nationalism many find distasteful.

The wearing of the poppy, if it is truely to honour the dead on all sides, by definition cannot be linked to one's patriotism or lack of it, and it is distasteful to suggest so.

KelvinD
6th Nov 2016, 05:54
Poppy & jingoism? Next Sunday, I shall find myself alongside Gurkhas, Kenyans, Poles, Dutchmen, Americans, Kiwis and many others, all with the same purpose. There is no jingoism about it!

2 sheds
6th Nov 2016, 07:26
Not too many Germans, Japanese, Italians, Argentinians or Iraqis then?

2 s

VP959
6th Nov 2016, 08:25
Poppy & jingoism? Next Sunday, I shall find myself alongside Gurkhas, Kenyans, Poles, Dutchmen, Americans, Kiwis and many others, all with the same purpose. There is no jingoism about it!

Not too many Germans, Japanese, Italians, Argentinians or Iraqis then?

2 s


For two years I worked with an exchange German chap. He felt exactly the same as we did on Armistice day and wore a poppy. He was born after the war, in what was then East Germany, but felt that the sacrifices made by all must be remembered, so that we never repeat the same mistakes.

There was no nationalism about it at all, he'd lost family in both World Wars at the hands of the Allies, but that did not alter his feelings towards a remembrance movement that helps all to remember the futility of war, as well as the ultimate sacrifice so many made, sacrifices that, by brutal means, brought about a long-lasting peace in Western Europe.

At the last remembrance parade I attended before I retired, the bugler who played the Last Post was black, and stood alongside colleagues from Nepal and Fiji, as they happened to be the resident regiments there at that time.

2 sheds
6th Nov 2016, 08:50
VP959 Good for him, your German chappie - as indeed it should be. My point was that the whole official tone of the remembrance is that it seems to be principally about the Allies/Coalition/"Our Side" (q.v. your point about the bugler), so take the comment about jingoism in a slightly wider-than-normal context.

2 s

Andy_S
6th Nov 2016, 10:48
Your argument seems to be everyone has to wear it, whatever, or they are an idiot?

That is NOT what I said. You need to go back and look at my earlier post on the subject - the one where I said that I was uncomfortable with the way that wearing of the poppy seems to be becoming mandatory.

As regards McClean, it is indeed his right not to wear a poppy. I just find his reasons for not doing so idiotic.

racedo
6th Nov 2016, 12:44
That is NOT what I said. You need to go back and look at my earlier post on the subject - the one where I said that I was uncomfortable with the way that wearing of the poppy seems to be becoming mandatory.

As regards McClean, it is indeed his right not to wear a poppy. I just find his reasons for not doing so idiotic.

So you feel that his reasons are idiotic because he doesn't want to commemorate members of an Armed Forces who shot members of his community dead.

Me personally find no fault in his reasons and will not abuse him or anybody for wearing or not wearing.

So what would be acceptable reasons to you for not wearing a poppy which you would not abuse .

2 sheds
6th Nov 2016, 15:38
J McC's letter to his club seems to be exceptionally reasonable, courageous, polite and literate. At the end, he says "As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club’s supporters this explanation."
It's actually a pity that the club puts the players in this invidious situation; he ought not to feel obliged to owe anyone an explanation. If they kept outward shows of such emotion to other more suitable situations, and on a voluntary basis, there would be no problem. Far more practical than all the collective pointless sentimentality would be a practical contribution to the RBL - how about 25% of the ticket sales? - if they feel that strongly.
I see that the RBL does quite a line in merchandise nowadays, but only a few items escape being adorned with poppies, including a nice line in hijabs.

2 s

Curious Pax
6th Nov 2016, 16:16
J McC's letter to his club seems to be exceptionally reasonable, courageous, polite and literate. At the end, he says "As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club’s supporters this explanation."
It's actually a pity that the club puts the players in this invidious situation; he ought not to feel obliged to owe anyone an explanation. If they kept outward shows of such emotion to other more suitable situations, and on a voluntary basis, there would be no problem. Far more practical than all the collective pointless sentimentality would be a practical contribution to the RBL - how about 25% of the ticket sales? - if they feel that strongly.

2 s

When googling for a bit of background it appears that the Premier League clubs auction the poppy shirts in aid of the RBL, raising £271k last year.

I donate but don't display, as despite the overwhelming merit of wearing a poppy, it does sometimes feel like following the diktat of the Daily Mail and the poppy police. Somewhat ironic given the DM's editorial stance in the run up to the 39-45 unpleasantness.

racedo
6th Nov 2016, 18:56
Somewhat ironic given the DM's editorial stance in the run up to the 39-45 unpleasantness.

Royal British Legion's shameful Hitler visit revealed after 75 years | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325204/Royal-British-Legions-shameful-Hitler-visit-revealed-75-years.html)

They weren't the only ones.

meadowrun
6th Nov 2016, 19:09
Bought my poppy a week ago.
Discovered, when out this morning, it had dislodged from my jacket and was lost.
Bought another.


Legion here is appealing for help, more of its members are no longer here and volunteers (mostly cadets) are also getting thin on the ground to sell the flowers.

Shack37
6th Nov 2016, 21:33
I watched todays Leicester v WBA game. Both teams wore a poppy on their shirts. J.McC wasn´t in the line up. Maybe he´s injured?

racedo
6th Nov 2016, 21:55
I watched todays Leicester v WBA game. Both teams wore a poppy on their shirts. J.McC wasn´t in the line up. Maybe he´s injured?

Injured with bad gash on leg couple of weeks ago it seems.

sitigeltfel
7th Nov 2016, 10:39
Legion here is appealing for help, more of its members are no longer here and volunteers (mostly cadets) are also getting thin on the ground to sell the flowers.

Not surprising, considering the threats they receive from certain quarters.

Shack37
7th Nov 2016, 10:56
Injured with bad gash on leg couple of weeks ago it seems.


Racedo, thanks for the info.

meadowrun
11th Nov 2016, 07:06
I thought this looked rather nice.


http://www.thesenior.com.au/assets/article-images/_resampled/ScaleWidthWyI1NzQiXQ/161111-Poppies-on-Sydney-Opera-House.jpg

VP959
11th Nov 2016, 07:25
It would be a nice gesture if this forum could go silent this morning at 11:00 GMT, just for two minutes.

Let's use those two minutes to remember all those that gave their lives to allow us the freedoms we have today.

We could all do with a two minute break from endless bickering about politics and elections, too, and remember there are more important things.