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MungoP
1st Nov 2016, 09:57
Is this a new scam or has it been a while since I last used them ?
Arranged to hire a small car for a couple of days through Enterprise.. quoted 30 GBP pd.. fair enough.. then on arrival told that with std insurance I have an excess liability of 1000 GBP.. ONE THOUSAND POUNDS ! They have a small clear plastic check piece with a small circle marked.. if a scratch is greater than the circle (apx 2 inch dia.) 1000 pounds.. if the windscreen gets a chip.. 1000 pounds..
To avoid this Mafiosi type threat we're charged and extra 16.50 per day.. more than half the cost of the hire.
Instinct wanted me to walk away but have no other hire companies locally and a busy day ahead.. And you just know that not taking out the extra will get that windscreen chipped or some lady paying more attention to the children than her supermarket trolley will result in a scratch on the door..
Bye Bye Mr Enterprise.. you won't see me again.

pvmw
1st Nov 2016, 10:10
I was stung in a similar fashion by Hertz. Six days hire in Italy was £90, the damage collision excess came to another £200. Its a common trick (scam?) amongst all hire companies and I suspect how they make their profit. The answer might be to get yourself independent insurance with this lot as I have.

Car Hire Excess Insurance | insurance4carhire.com (http://www.insurance4carhire.com)

They cover the excess that the hire companies use as you describe to rip you off. It cost £40 p.a. for an unlimited number of trips, and includes cover abroad so more than pays for itself in one trip.

I said "might" because I am actually waiting to see if they pay a claim for a replacement tyre for one I kerbed (it was take to the kerb or the BMW driving straight at me down a narrow Italian street!). The reviews of them are good, so I'm fairly confident they will pay - and its also better than the hire company insurance as they include tyre , windscreen and wheel damage which the hire company's cover usually doesn't.

If/when they pay up I'll try to remember to post it on here.

VP959
1st Nov 2016, 10:14
This sounds a bit extreme, but all the car hire companies have been running the additional insurance scam for years.

If you hire cars often, then you can take out your own accidental damage cover, independent of the hire car company, that gives you a year of cover for a fraction of the price of a week or two of paying the hire car company rates.

When working, I've seen my employer get had by hire car claims loads of times. The one I recall where I found out about it and kicked up a stink was Avis. I'd stopped overnight at a hotel near Nottingham and someone had tried to break into the hire car, whilst it was parked in the hotel car park. The only damage was a screwdriver sized hole in the passenger door, where presumably they had tried (unsuccessfully) to get at the locking mechanism.

I reported the incident, got a police reference number, filled in my employers incident form and took loads of photos of the car, as I happened to have a Hasselblad with me for work.

Around 6 months later my employer had a bill for repairs to the car from Avis, and by pure chance the accounts people told me about it, as they were surprised at being charged a few thousand pounds for the incident. I was bloody outraged, and got them to ask Avis for a breakdown of the repair work. As well as the new door skin and paint job, they had charged for a front and rear bumper replacement and a replacement rear wing, IIRC. I dug out all the photos I'd taken, made copies and demanded that Avis explain how the undamaged bumpers and wing needed replacement.

Funny old thing, but Avis backed off, said there must have been an "admin error" and dropped the repair bill down to just the door skin and paint job.

Somewhere here there's a thread on hire car insurance, with some good tips, including the annual policy one. Probably worth having a look for it, as if you hire cars for more than a week or two a year I think it's far better value than taking the accidental damage cover that the hire car companies offer.

treadigraph
1st Nov 2016, 10:16
Got a Focus booked with Enterprise on Monday - I will let you know what happens.


Have used them earlier this year, remember paying out a small amount to "protect excess", but don't recall it being as much as £16.50.

RAT 5
1st Nov 2016, 10:30
I had a surprisingly good experience with them. I usually book via Autoeurope to find the best deal. Later I make a check direct with the local office of the hire company, NOT central reservations. Enterprise BFS offered me a better deal and said to book it on their website. I did so. On arrival the CDW & other insurance discussion started. I found out there was NO insurance at all. The price was going to be astronomic. Much muttering and saying I was going to cancel and go elsewhere.
Wow, slow down. It seemed I had booked on Enterprise.com and not Enterprise.co.uk. The .com prices were for mostly USA tourists who paid with US credit cards and that provided all the insurance. My EU credit card did not. I have Insurance4carhire for years. The kind agent cancelled my .com booking, rebooked it via .co.uk and it came to £1.50 cheaper including CDW and a £800 excess covered by my own policy. The mistake was the booking website, and the safety net is your own annual policy.
Possibly the same trap is there for all the companies. Same solution. Try Autoeurope as your entry point for booking and all is transparent and taken care off. Plus you can cancel free up to 48hrs before collection. Their rates might have reduced.

Fareastdriver
1st Nov 2016, 10:36
I booked a Mercedes 250 through Enterprise, the excess was £1,500. I haven't had an accident in fifty years and I have never bothered to take out cover to reduce it. This time I decided to and paid £100 to bring the excess down to £250.

Parked in RAF Benson Car Park on the night of 33 Sqn's Centenary somebody damaged it in the car park. I didn't notice it as it was dark until the next day in the North of England. I thought at the time that was that and there was nothing I could do except cough up when I returned the car; which I did.

Somebody had seen the criminal deed, taken the offender's number and reported it to the Snowdrops at Benson. The accident happened at the beginning of this year. The offender has been found guilty and I would hope is running around Colchester with a back pack full of bricks, (or am I being a bit old-fashioned).

I am still waiting for the results of the correspondence between Enterprise and the RAF Police.

MungoP
1st Nov 2016, 11:47
Yep.. I too haven't had a claim in 52 yrs of driving but..
I can understand an excess.. maybe 100 or 200 at a push. But a thousand pounds ?

charliegolf
1st Nov 2016, 12:23
The offender has been found guilty and I would hope is running around Colchester with a back pack full of bricks, (or am I being a bit old-fashioned).

Don't be silly! Now it will be lightweight Celcon blocks!

CG

charliegolf
1st Nov 2016, 12:25
Is it an excess, or a security/damage deposit? The latter is rather different. And the circle is pretty big, regarding dents.

CG

RAT 5
1st Nov 2016, 13:09
No excess no need for the nice commission generating extras. Excess has been around for years hence the creation of excess personal insurance companies. It is an excellent example of a demand driven market economy. Necessity is the.............. It is a mute question whether the root cause of the necessity is really necessary.

racedo
1st Nov 2016, 13:13
In defence of rental companys.

Pretty much use car hire now instead of own car and have done so for 3 years..................... 600 plus days.

The blocking on card of £1000 or more is pretty standard as amazing the number of people who come back and claim there was no damage done to a car even when confronted by the photo evidence of pre and post.
Even then they believe rental company should pay for the damage that the hirer has done while hiring a car while they claim £20 a day is too expnsive for rental.

I have been in car hire at an airport that return cars to regularly when someone was abusing rental checkin that they were not smoking in car, (ash photos they claimed were not theirs) at same time as they lit a cigarette in office and ignored requests that it was a no smoking area.

In another case debris on road caused 10-12 cars to have punctures and one was this Hire co's car, AA brought it back in and renter demanded a Mercedes now instead of a Focus as he got punctures. Screamed abuse in airport office at everybody (they had said they would not charge him for the tyres), after Police intervened because of his behaviou the rental cancelled and he found not a single other company there would rent to him.

Now not saying they are angels as hired a car at another airport in UK from same company 2 yrs ago, picked up in dark icy weather, dropped back in dark in snowy icy weather. Checkers went straight to windscreen and said you caused this chip even though had driven 35 miles in 2 days, ongoing complaint resolved when they kept sending me paperwork for rental previous to mine. It appears damage was already on car and they not followed procedures.

I can't use Insuranceforcarhire when I rent as its business use but do use them when I am away from home not on businesss without a worry.

I don't buy the Insurance company excess in UK as £15 a day is 66 days a year so it is a risk I am taking.

In the event you need to look at previous damage there is generally a copy inspection report always in boot.

KelvinD
1st Nov 2016, 13:53
I have been using Enterprise for a few years now. I have tried them all and will stick with Enterprise. I actually rented a small car this last weekend and got the usual great service from them that ensures I go back.
During the pre-rental walk around with the man with a card, the damage circle was explained to me (quite reasonable), the agent tried for the 2nd time to flog me the additional insurance, which I declined. He also pointed out that for something like £7.50 on top of the rental, the excess would be reduced to £100 from the standard £1,000. I declined anyway, Fair play to the lad, he did try very hard to get me to buy the extra insurance and I had to wonder if this wasn't a part of his incentives. Upon return, the inspection was very quick, nothing to note etc and I have found this to be the case with previous rentals with them. None of the Sherlock Holmes style crawling all over the vehicle, looking for invisible scratches etc.

ExXB
1st Nov 2016, 14:27
We've returned Enterprise cars to BRS a few times. Last two times people have come out of the hut to great us. Without looking at the car, other than to check the odometer and petrol gauge, they've waived us off saying 'everything is OK.

About a week later we've had emails from them asking us to explain the 'damage' to the car! This despite the Mrs. insisting on paying for the extra insurance. In both cases we've responded saying they were mistaken, no damage was done and offered to provide before and after video and photos.

Never heard anything further but it makes me suspect that something is rotten in Enterprise land.

I'd be very careful with these guys.

larssnowpharter
1st Nov 2016, 14:28
Many years ago I had a 25% share in a small, one depot car rental business in the UK. All our customers had the option of CDW insurance and/or excess reduction insurance. We charged less than the competition for this but took the risk on ourselves.

A very nice 'little earner' it was too.

MungoP
1st Nov 2016, 15:13
'Kelvin D'

I can assure you that I was not offered any other option for insurance other than the 16.50 pd which brought the total up for 2 days from 60 to over 90 pounds. I queried this with them today on returning the car and they stuck to the 16.50. I also queried the 1000 pounds and they claimed it was because the car would be off the road.. Well that's why they have insurance, or rather they don't.. they told me that they run their own insurance.
To take the risk of a 1000 pound excess is to me just crazy.. and to have to pay 16.50 pd to offset it down to 100 pounds is just a scam. They make sure they don't mention that number when you enquire about prices.

VP959
1st Nov 2016, 15:27
I have to say that the only time I used Enterprise (when my car was written off and the insurance company for the driver that caused the accident gave me an "equivalent quality" hire car from Enterprise) their service was excellent. They delivered the car to me, collected it from the garage where I picked my new (replacement) car up from and were generally very good.

I'm in the habit of taking a few photos when I pick up a hire care, and another set when I return it, and the Enterprise guy was quite amused by this. The funny thing was that a couple of months later I had a letter from Enterprise, followed by a visit from their claims handler for an interview with me, as someone had made a claim that the car I'd been driving had driven into the back of their car, causing several thousand pounds worth of damage.

Their claims handler was very grateful for the dated photos I'd taken from when the car was collected, as they clearly showed that the front of the hire car was unmarked, and couldn't have been in an accident. Apparently that particular hire car had been sold on, and a fraudster was now trying to make a claim for car damage and injury from an accident allegedly involving that car, and alleging that it had been during the time that it was hired to me. According to the chap that interviewed me it's not that uncommon, a variation on the scam where people deliberately cause accidents to make an insurance claim.

There was some follow-on correspondence and phone calls from Enterprise, but they were always very helpful. I've hired cars (related to work usually) from lots of different companies, and would say that Enterprise were probably the best I've dealt with in terms of customer service. Mind you, I have no idea how much they charged the at-fault drivers insurance for the car I had for a few weeks.

SMT Member
1st Nov 2016, 15:34
Just to point out the obscenely high excess charged by hire companies: If you should venture forth to the Green Hell, the infamous Nürburgring, with the intent to drive around the track in anger, the village is littered with companies who'll set you up with a nice little race-prepared number. I did, quite a lot, a few years back A VW Scirocco, or similar, comes with an excess of around 2500 EUR. Alright, it's about parity these days, but back then it would have been, what?, 2000 quid? And that's for a car they know will be driven hard on a race track infamous for armco induced damages.

On the same note, I once had a small accident with a hired VW Eos. I was stupid, and the car had rolled backward into a fence post. No damage to post, minor dent in bumper and a broken lights glass on the VW. Took the pictures, filled in the forms, admitted my guilt. The car was hired whilst on business, and business had a strict rule of 'don't ever buy insurance'. Few weeks later, bill comes in on the dark side of 5000 EUR. I was beyond livid and, presented with the pictures of the light and bumper damage, so was the senior bean counter who'd come to my desk with the bill.

I'm not sure what happened with the bill, but I do know the rental company dropped off the list of 'preferred suppliers'.

Democritus
1st Nov 2016, 23:27
We've returned Enterprise cars to BRS a few times. Last two times people have come out of the hut to great us. Without looking at the car, other than to check the odometer and petrol gauge, they've waived us off saying 'everything is OK.

About a week later we've had emails from them asking us to explain the 'damage' to the car!

We had a hire car from Enterprise following an accident to my wife's car. When we returned it the inspection was minimal so I got the Enterprise rep to write on our hire form that the car had been returned without damage - made him sign it and also write his name in capital letters. Well worth doing that IMHO.

n5296s
2nd Nov 2016, 00:21
CDW is a scam all the rental companies do. There are various ways to avoid it. If you book through Expedia or Orbitz, they both have their own insurance scheme which is much cheaper. I've used it but thankfully never had occasion to see how well it works.

I find Enterprise to be WAY better than the other companies. I always use them when I visit the UK. I use them in the US a lot too since they have a lot more outlets than the others - important when flying into small non-commercial airports. Their customer service at LHR is really excellent, very attentive, never a wait, and very courteous on return also. A huge contrast to Avis/Hertz. And even more with Europcar, who I used by mistake last time (clicked the wrong green button) - one hour wait to get a car, zero customer service focussed entirely on upsell, and a terrible reputation for the damage scam.

Metro man
2nd Nov 2016, 07:29
Always have some form of cover as even a minor ding will run to well over the excess. I have an annual policy which is much cheaper than using the hire company's, however if using a backstreet company always take their option for zero excess and factor it into the price as they know every tiny blemish on all their cars and will try it on with every hirerer.

When driving an unfamiliar car a minor scrap is more likely as you are not used to judging its size, kerbing the wheels when parking is not uncommon. as is scraping a front corner when moving out of a tight space. Extra caution required until you get used to it.

IBMJunkman
2nd Nov 2016, 12:45
Some time ago I rented a Hertz at ORD with return to the train station in Chicago. At pickup no one went to the car with me. I took a bunch of pics with the old cell phone. Return location was inside a parking garage near the station. Drove in and could find no one at the return spot. All the spots reserved for a Hertz car were full. Parked the car on the top level away from all others. Took more pics. Found desk inside station to do paperwork. Told the agent where the car was. Got home on Friday. Sunday I get a call asking where the car was. They apparently found it as I never got another call. :)

racedo
2nd Nov 2016, 14:00
CDW is a scam all the rental companies do. There are various ways to avoid it. If you book through Expedia or Orbitz, they both have their own insurance scheme which is much cheaper. I've used it but thankfully never had occasion to see how well it works.

CDW isn't a scam it is optional insurance for people, in Europe if you do not take the CDW insurance of the hire company an amount will be blocked on your credit card.

Any claim by a hire car company is taken from you and then you claim from your insurance provider.

Hire car companys could put all the insurance onto the rental cost so the £90, 6 day rental in Italy will now cost £200.

US visitors tend to use their CC to cover their excess policy in Europe and most hire companys will block an amount from that card. In EU we don't have that.

I always find it amazing that people believe that they can go to a different country, drive on different side of the road in a completely different car and road structure and think that they are getting ripped off because the car hire company wants to protect their asset. (That applies to everyone).

Listening to people complaining that their car hire cost £300 a week but they happy to pay £150 a night at a hotel makes me wonder sometimes.

seafire6b
2nd Nov 2016, 15:08
... Listening to people complaining that their car hire cost £300 a week but they happy to pay £150 a night at a hotel makes me wonder sometimes.

Perhaps until comparing all the costs of asset & accessories purchase, day-to-day running & administration, and then plus any regular necessary upkeep and maintenance?

pvmw
2nd Nov 2016, 15:10
I always find it amazing that people believe that they can go to a different country, drive on different side of the road in a completely different car and road structure and think that they are getting ripped off because the car hire company wants to protect their asset

The issue is that it is done so dishonestly. When you book a hire car and are given the rate there is no mention made of "extras". When you arrive at the desk they suddenly spring the cost of collision damage waiver on top of the already published cost. It makes it impossible to select the best option, because until you arrive you have no idea what the additional cost will be, and someone who isn't wise to this will be pressured to pay through the nose for the additional cover. I'd describe that as a scam.

However, having been stung once I learned my lesson and taken out my own independent cover as I described - so from a purely personal point of view I'd prefer to see the hire companies continue to load the price at the desk to make their profit. It means I'm effectively getting discounted care hire paid for by others. I'm not going to complain about that!

VP959
2nd Nov 2016, 16:01
Not just misrepresented in the headline hire charge cost, either, but the insurance is charged at a rate that is massively higher than the cost of having the same, or a higher, level of insurance on your own policy.

Using this case from the OP's post, Enterprise are charging £16.50 a day for accidental damage insurance.

My worldwide policy. with a £100 excess on any accidental, my fault, damage cost me about £130 a year. IIRC, I could have got an EU and Europe only policy for around half the price; it was needing cover in the US and Canada that put the premium up from the basic of around £60 a year.

For hire car use in the EU and Europe, then it's worth having if you hire a car more than about 4 or 5 days a year, or if you hire a car in the US or Canada (or elsewhere in the world) for more than about 9 days a year.

When I was working, I probably used hire cars for around 50 or 60 days a year, maybe more. Having an annual policy was a no-brainer in terms of saving a lot of money. 50 days hire at the quoted Enterprise accidental damage insurance rate of £16.50 per day would have cost well over £800, over 6 times more than I paid for the annual policy.

Even now I'm retired I still take out an annual policy if we are going on holiday and getting a hire car, as it's always cheaper than taking the hire car company insurance, even for a fortnights holiday.

racedo
2nd Nov 2016, 18:43
The issue is that it is done so dishonestly. When you book a hire car and are given the rate there is no mention made of "extras". When you arrive at the desk they suddenly spring the cost of collision damage waiver on top of the already published cost. It makes it impossible to select the best option, because until you arrive you have no idea what the additional cost will be, and someone who isn't wise to this will be pressured to pay through the nose for the additional cover. I'd describe that as a scam.


People don't read the terms and conditions on what they are buying.

It is not being done dishonestly as they are making you full aware that you are covered by CDW which is the law, however the excess is £1000, if you want to take that risk then that is your call, if you want to get it down to zero that will be £x per day.

Every rental agreement I sign I have to initial what I am refusing be it that Personal accident / Super CDW etc. etc.

I don't take out Super CDW and know I have a risk and as said I do 200 days year in Hire Cars....... and no I can't use Insurance for car hire as its business use.

racedo
2nd Nov 2016, 18:46
When I was working, I probably used hire cars for around 50 or 60 days a year, maybe more. Having an annual policy was a no-brainer in terms of saving a lot of money. 50 days hire at the quoted Enterprise accidental damage insurance rate of £16.50 per day would have cost well over £800, over 6 times more than I paid for the annual policy.

You were not covered when Hiring a car for business use................. used to think I was until read the T&C's. It doesn't stop claims and they paying but business use is an exclusion.

I agree on keeping an annual policy for holidays, it makes sense, I have.

racedo
2nd Nov 2016, 18:48
Perhaps until comparing all the costs of asset & accessories purchase, day-to-day running & administration, and then plus any regular necessary upkeep and maintenance?

I worry less about the cleanliness of the car than I do of the accomodation.

seafire6b
2nd Nov 2016, 20:22
I worry less about the cleanliness of the car than I do of the accomodation. Precisely - and being one of the many reasons people are less likely complain about a reasonable hotel at £150 per night, than car hire at £300 for a week.

racedo
2nd Nov 2016, 21:07
Precisely - and being one of the many reasons people are less likely complain about a reasonable hotel at £150 per night, than car hire at £300 for a week.

Hopefully not at cross purposes but my £150 night hotel doesn't get anywhere near a clean and polish that my car hire does, judging by the hotel inspectors and nights in hotels some lack even basic hygiene.

Metro man
3rd Nov 2016, 01:08
Advertise a low headline price and then load on extras as you go through the booking process. I wonder if the airlines will catch onto this ?

Ken Borough
3rd Nov 2016, 04:46
MetroMan,

On which planet have you been living for the last decade and a half?

reefrat
3rd Nov 2016, 05:14
Used Enterprise last month,, very good service, and a drop off at home after returning the car, 20+ miles. During the return inspection I remarked that the clutch pedal had an ususually long throw and that some one may have been slipping the clutch. Was reassured that all such cars had a similar pedal travel.
On the free return trip to my home, in a different model, I was intrigued by the new style of auto gear selector,, which seems to be very similiar to a manual.
Got out of the car at my home and noticed a very familiar smell, sure enough my driver had driven all the way home in top gear using the clutch to slow down at each intersection. :=

MungoP
3rd Nov 2016, 07:34
Racedo
You appear to have appointed yourself an apologist for rental companies. The issue here is pretty straightforward. I call up in advance to get a quote which appears reasonable at 30 per day. I arrive early morning on the day to be informed that if someone scrapes the car with a trolley in the car park a 3 inch scratch will cost me 1000 pounds.. following a truck that spits out a bit of gravel and chips the windscreen will cost me 1000 pounds. To offset this I will need to pay an extra 16.50 pd. Not having an alternative I'm stuck with paying or not getting my planned program completed that day. It's not a question of 'not reading the small print' as you put it.
If when someone calls they quoted 30 pounds pd but told that is the minimal insurance quote and to offset the risk of a 1000 excess they will need to pay an extra 16.50 per day the choice for me would have been simple. Waiting until you're at the desk with no alternatives is why I consider it a scam.

KelvinD
3rd Nov 2016, 08:00
Ironically, I just found myself renting another car on behalf of my lad and, with this thread in mind, I paid a bit more attention this time. It seems the person who had offered me the £7.50 had cocked it up. Asking the questions this time, I found it should have been more like £17.50! And then came a few little haggles, such as "If you rent in your name and add your son as a driver, it will be £xx per day on top. If you then accept the Windscreen/Tyres CDW, that will come down to some other number of quids but the additional sum you are paying for adding your son as a driver will now reduce". I got lost somewhere in the fog of all this but when the bottom line meant paying the same gross price, I accepted the CDW.
By the way, surely the £1,000 excess doesn't mean that a small scratch will cost you £1,000. Doesn't it mean you will be liable for the costs up to £1,000 and they will be liable for any difference above £1,000? So, if you scratch the car and it costs you £100.00 to fix it, that is all you pay. If you bend it severely and the repair cost comes to £2,000, you will pay £1,000. Some years ago, my house was burgled and a laptop was nicked. My home insurance had a £40 excess so I had to pay the insurance £40 and they picked up the cost of the replacement laptop.

MungoP
3rd Nov 2016, 13:01
Kelvin D
I did query that very point as he kept emphasising the 1000 risk and was told that the costs are likely to be high due to the car being off the road.
And let's look at that 16.50...
The 30 pd hire charge includes basic insurance that covers the cost of a right-off and the loss of income.. in the case of this car the value would be apx 20,000 pounds plus loss of income.. All included in the 30 pounds hire charge ! So what would that insurance be... 5 pounds pd maybe ? So how can an additional 900 pounds (I would still have had a 100 excess) cost 16.50..?
Anyway.. as I said.. the sums are not the issue..it's simply that I wasn't warned in advance..

racedo
3rd Nov 2016, 13:39
Racedo
You appear to have appointed yourself an apologist for rental companies. The issue here is pretty straightforward. I call up in advance to get a quote which appears reasonable at 30 per day. I arrive early morning on the day to be informed that if someone scrapes the car with a trolley in the car park a 3 inch scratch will cost me 1000 pounds.. following a truck that spits out a bit of gravel and chips the windscreen will cost me 1000 pounds. To offset this I will need to pay an extra 16.50 pd. Not having an alternative I'm stuck with paying or not getting my planned program completed that day. It's not a question of 'not reading the small print' as you put it.
If when someone calls they quoted 30 pounds pd but told that is the minimal insurance quote and to offset the risk of a 1000 excess they will need to pay an extra 16.50 per day the choice for me would have been simple. Waiting until you're at the desk with no alternatives is why I consider it a scam.

Nope

But as someone who rents all the time you get use to hearing people bitch about car hire because they failed to ask any questions.

And a scrape will as Kelvin said not cost you £1000, car hire companys have already assessed exactly what each repair will cost from scratch to windscreen repair, windscreen was £216 in example used where they tried it on.

ELondonPax
3rd Nov 2016, 13:51
This is the equivalent of passengers who moan that they had to pay extra for hold baggage or an allocated seat.
I'm not a fan of Enterprise (I use Hertz), but none of the rental companies hide this. Read the full terms and conditions of the reservation confirmation - it is spelled out.

pvmw
3rd Nov 2016, 14:41
This is the equivalent of passengers who moan that they had to pay extra for hold baggage or an allocated seat.
Not so. When you make a booking, for example with Ryanair - often used as example of dubious practices - one of the questions asked is whether you want to add extra baggage or to reserve a seat - and the prices are clearly shown.

I'm not a fan of Enterprise (I use Hertz), but none of the rental companies hide this. Read the full terms and conditions of the reservation confirmation - it is spelled out.
Indeed, and that is the point. They do hide it. Until you get the reservation confirmation it is not spelled out (I don't have a confirmation to hand, but I'm not sure it is even then). Once you have the confirmation its too late. You are asked if you want extras such as a sat nav or a child seat and listing the prices, but no-where is there a question asking if you want CDW and telling you what it will cost (on the Hertz website there is a single line of small-ish print at the bottom saying "optional extras such as supercover are available"). At no point when you book is the option and price of CDW offered to the punter. The website does its best to obfuscate.

Regular hirers know of these charges, and know how - if they wish - to avoid them by having their own cover. A family going on holiday with kids may hire a car once a year - if that often. They will arrive at the desk to be presented with the threat that if they don't take out this extra cover they may become liable to pay an additional £2000. An unexpected threat of a huge bill if they don't take the cover offered , potentially with kids screaming after a long flight, and many people will feel they have no option.

That is sharp practice on the part of the hire company, and unfortunately has become an accepted practice. Actually, and purely selfishly, I thoroughly approve. It means that the punters who feel forced to take out CDW are subsidising those of us who make other arrangements.

Further, to support my point and just as an experiment, I've just tried booking a car at Stansted for 2 days. The cost – very clearly shown as “what you pay now” - was for a total of £36.97. In small print underneath there is a tab saying “View Optional Extras available for purchase at the counter”. That is the extent of any reference on the booking page to CDW. Incidentally, for the rental I tried it added an Extra £26.40 per day, increasing the rental cost from £36.97 to £89.77. I call that deceitful.

TCAS FAN
3rd Nov 2016, 14:52
I use Enterprise regularly for business travel, forget the daily excess reduction charge go on-line and get an annual excess insurance. It costs me £38 per year, an annual saving of about £400 over their daily charge. Accept that I would have to pay the excess and reclaim it, haven't needed to yet.

racedo
3rd Nov 2016, 15:47
I use Enterprise regularly for business travel, forget the daily excess reduction charge go on-line and get an annual excess insurance. It costs me £38 per year, an annual saving of about £400 over their daily charge. Accept that I would have to pay the excess and reclaim it, haven't needed to yet.

Check small print that it covers business use

RAT 5
3rd Nov 2016, 16:32
Let's get real. An extra insurance is reasonable. There is a risk; but look at the % premium. How on earth can £1000 risk = £16.50 per day. That means on an average holiday 7 day hire the premium is >10% of the risk. If a 2 week holiday then it is >20%. Ridiculous. Surely there should be a maximum amount, not a per day figure. I am looking at camper hire for 1 month or longer. It is €13/day for €1500. That's €400/month. After a 6 week holiday the premium is 50% of the risk. Theft/fraud; call it what you like, but it ain't correct, and yet there is no way out. I've searched this and none of the personal excess insurance companies cover campers. Does anyone have an idea?
The same is true with additional drivers. It is a per day item, sometimes with a max = 1 week. Ridiculous The spectrum of figures quoted shows it is a tax and not an insurance. Some countries/companies include an extra driver for free, as do some loyalty schemes. In Geneva in winter it is 16SFR/day. Outrageous. I suggested than on a ski holiday, when the main driver might get injured and need a quick trip to hospital, what then? Equally, what if the lead driver gets a leg in plaster on day 1? You can not phone up and add a driver, or replace the original one. Daft and very poor customer service from all the cartel orientated main companies. I once asked Hertz to see the 'additional driver insurance policy' and was told it was not available. Eventually it was agreed it was a charge for an 'extra service.' This add on when it is at a family holiday destination is a huge con. On he continent it is the car that is insured and not the driver, as per UK. Only one person can drive eat once, so the extra driver charge is almost fraudulent. Why is there no challenge to it? It is a customer based industry, but the cartel attitude is alive & well. Considering the battler governments fought about mobile phone roaming charges, why not this con as well. At GVA I found all companies had the same price. Hertz had doubled in 3 years with no answer from customer services. They all followed suit. I suggested that if someone offered free additional driver, or for a couple of €, they would sell out.

I pass the spoon. If anyone has an idea how to start an effective campaign against this abuse I'll offer my sweat to it.

MungoP
3rd Nov 2016, 17:00
ELondonPax Read the full terms and conditions of the reservation confirmation - it is spelled out.

I'm not negotiating the Treaty of Versaille here.. I simply called from my mobile to ask the rate and being happy with it requested the car for Monday.. No contracts, no e-mails, no post.. just a simple request for a car by phone..
Try not to be so damned condescending.

VP959
3rd Nov 2016, 17:07
At one time car insurers would offer "any vehicle" cover for a defined period of the policy. I remember doing this many years ago to extend my car insurance cover for a couple of weeks whilst I was in Ireland (long before Ireland was in the EU). At the time there were options to add things like caravan insurance for holidays etc.

More recently, I obtained a short period of cover to drive another vehicle I'd borrowed, not covered by my normal policy because of it's gross weight and class, and they gave me the necessary fully comprehensive cover for around £40 for three weeks, £15 of which was an "admin fee".

On a different type of insurance, house cover, I recently had to have a short period of changed cover and found that the broker was easily able to do this for the time I needed, again for a fairly modest fee, plus an additional premium.

Might be worth talking to your car insurer to see if they can offer extended cover for a period of time for driving a hired motor caravan. They may or may not, but it's got to be worth the call, I'd have thought, especially if you've been with your current car insurer for some time and they want to keep your custom. This latter point can make a big difference to premiums, too. I recently challenged our house insurance renewal and the insurer almost halved the premium straight away, "to keep our custom", as they put it.

ExXB
3rd Nov 2016, 17:34
Well, one could hope that the EC and the Parliment will introduce regulations on price clarity, as they have done with the airlines.

While I normally oppose government regulation out of principle these guys are out of line. They will only have themselves to blame.

racedo
3rd Nov 2016, 17:42
Well, one could hope that the EC and the Parliment will introduce regulations on price clarity, as they have done with the airlines.

While I normally oppose government regulation out of principle these guys are out of line. They will only have themselves to blame.
Won't apply in UK as that is just EU interfering :E

ChrisJ800
4th Nov 2016, 05:02
Some credit cards such as some Amex may include travel insurance that may cover CDW. I myself always have annual global travel insurance that covers CDW. You need to pay the 1000 quid if you have a ding but claim it back.

ian16th
4th Nov 2016, 09:15
Some credit cards such as some Amex may include travel insurance that may cover CDW. I myself always have annual global travel insurance that covers CDW. You need to pay the 1000 quid if you have a ding but claim it back. Cover provided by CC companies varies by country of issue. The Americans get a good deal in this way. Not EU residents, or South Africans:sad:

Loggerheads
5th Nov 2016, 08:33
CDW isn't a scam it is optional insurance for people, in Europe if you do not take the CDW insurance of the hire company an amount will be blocked on your credit card.

It's an absolute scam of the highest order, no question.

£16.50 per day to insure £1000 and you don't see the scam.;)

365 x £16.50 = £6022.5 pa equivalent to insure £1000.:=

Tell me, racedo, how much do you pay to insure your car, what's your cars value?;)

racedo
5th Nov 2016, 14:20
It's an absolute scam of the highest order, no question.
£16.50 per day to insure £1000 and you don't see the scam.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif
365 x £16.50 = £6022.5 pa equivalent to insure £1000.:=
Tell me, racedo, how much do you pay to insure your car, what's your cars value?http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

You are not forced to take it, therefore it is optional.

I don't pay it and all I use is Hire Cars therefore if I have an accident the MAXIMUM I will pay is £1000 subject not having breached the rental conditions.
Car hire companys have schedules of charges so if you bring a car back where the windscreen is cracked you pay for its replacement circa £200 NOT £1000.

When I had car Insurance I had to pay the first £1000 of any claim because I asked for a high excess.

Metro man
6th Nov 2016, 06:09
£1000 /16.5 means you can have an accident every 60 days and be even whether you take the insurance or accept the excess.

For a frequent hirerer it would make more sense to have their own cover, or self insure and put aside just in case.

RAT 5
6th Nov 2016, 11:11
It does become significant with campers. Excess €1500, €14/day, travel for 1 month on an Italian trip = €420 to insure €1500. The hire company told me to contact the insurance company and negotiate; it was out of their hands. I shall do if I decide to make the trip next year. Crazy thing is if you travel a not uncommon multi-month European trip, or even USA, you could pay an equal or higher premium than the excess. A bit Irish if you did; no offence to our cousins.

Loggerheads
6th Nov 2016, 11:15
Indeed, it can be dressed up however one chooses, however it remains a scam. To suggest an annual premium of 6 times the sum assured is anything other than a scam beggars belief.:p

That's like paying £180k to insure a £30k car. Oh wait a minute, no it's not, because on insuring your car there's all sorts of other third party liabilities included. In other words the sum assured is not limited to £30k.;)

It's an absolute scam, I tell ya. To worry folks in to parting with extortionate premiums which are purely profit.:=

And that's not to mention the scams of charging for pre existing damage in the knowledge the cc companies are on the renters' side.:eek:

racedo
6th Nov 2016, 12:57
£1000 /16.5 means you can have an accident every 60 days and be even whether you take the insurance or accept the excess.

For a frequent hirerer it would make more sense to have their own cover, or self insure and put aside just in case.

Insurance companys will not cover Hire cars tried that, No beneficial intrest in the vehicle from number of them.

Excess polices do not cover you as its business use plus number of day hired for.

As you point out taking the risk is balanced off, I have replaced a windscreen using company Hire car use on advice from hire depot manager and saved £50. Hire company viewed is as not much of an issue and I had told them.

racedo
6th Nov 2016, 13:04
Indeed, it can be dressed up however one chooses, however it remains a scam. To suggest an annual premium of 6 times the sum assured is anything other than a scam beggars belief.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/tongue.gif

That's like paying £180k to insure a £30k car. Oh wait a minute, no it's not, because on insuring your car there's all sorts of other third party liabilities included. In other words the sum assured is not limited to £30k.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

It's an absolute scam, I tell ya. To worry folks in to parting with extortionate premiums which are purely profit.:=

And that's not to mention the scams of charging for pre existing damage in the knowledge the cc companies are on the renters' side.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif

You are quite free to call it what you like but as majority of UK renters only have a car for 10 days or less then your figures are wrong.

I am one of the extremes along with some other business users hence why I get rates unavailable to the 10 day renter and bear the risk...........
Hence I easily make back the theoretical £1000 a year when I walk up and get a car for £8 a day where as next guy along is paying £20.