CEP v Hour building

[Girt_bar]

Like most of you out there my ultimate goal is to command an airliner. Along the way I also hope to experience "real flying" and by this I mean hands on under varying conditions e.g. charter, parachuting etc. I guess my question is this..

Are airline cadets who are introduced to airliners which practically fly themselves after only 200ish hours piston time missing out on "real flying" as I like to call it?

I have my PPL and am at that stage when I have to make a decision. Should I commit serious time and money into CEP's where command will come earlier than normal? (in the unlikely event that I should be accepted). Or should I just knuckle down and build up the hours knowing that the airline job may take a while but the experience I will gain flying various types along the way will be a great one.

Comments from either side of the coin would be appreciated.

Cheers
Girt_bar

My the way, I have not been rejected for a cadetship so there are no sour grapes. I also greatly respect any person who has been accepted as a cadet so it is not a personal attack directed at you folk.

[Mister Geezer]

Girt Bar

I read your post with interest, since I have in the past, often thought about the point you make.

The point about 'real flying' is a very interesting one. However I feel that for me it would be wise to take parachutists up etc etc as a hobby as well as flying and getting paid to fly 'bigger stuff' as your day job and keep the extra stuff as a hobby.

I have sometimes thought what if I did not fly for an Airline in the future. Thoughts of Corporate, Air Taxi, Relief work all start coming into my head. I also hear stories about friends of people I know that are training in the States and will be flying Islanders round the Caribbean... and getting paid for it!!! That does sound appealing, however I feel that is something that I would do as an extra or possibly even something you would do once you retire!

I do know airline pilots who do in their time off ferry aircraft around and do some corporate flying etc etc. It can be done however I would like to get set up in a career first before I start getting involved with anything else!

However in a few years time, my views could be completely different and flying at Mach 0.8 at FL370 might be the only thing that I actually want to do for the rest of my life, until I retire! :)

MG

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When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded.

[This message has been edited by Mister Geezer (edited 15 January 2001).]

[meslag]

oooooh dont get me started.

If you want to fly you will do it if you get sponcered or not.
Guys and girls that wake up one morning and decide that they want to be pilots, but only the easy way - get my goat.
If i hear another cap509er (they were called that in my day), moan about vfr nav or spinning because they wont be doing that in their boeing... i will scream.
Turned down two sponcerships i did and i would not have missed the self improver route for the world. In fact i would have stayed poor and in my instructing job longer if i could.
In my experience, operating an airliner is so unlike flying in the true sence that it is unreal.
Yes just 200hrs to airliner you are missing out on lots and lots of fun. So with all your new money, spend some on learning to fly a little cub or something and encourage others.

[Lucifer]

Why not go for sponsorship and then pay for more 'interesting' flights in spare time. At least you won't be struggling as much if successful or kicking yourself later for not trying.

[Grandad Flyer]

meslag, good post.
"Along the way I also hope to experience "real flying" and by this I mean hands on under varying conditions e.g. charter,"
Guess that as I fly an airliner for a mainly charter airline that I am not flying in a real airline yet?
"Are airline cadets who are introduced to airliners which practically fly themselves after only 200ish hours piston time missing out on "real flying" as I like to call it?"
I think even to fly an airliner you will find that you need some flying experience. However, anyone who actually likes flying, as opposed to quite a few BA cadets of the past, who just wanted to do a well paid job with a fancy hat, will do real flying. Although I fly a fancy airliner for my job, in my spare time I tootle about in a little group A airplane, the same one I did much of my hour building in.
"Should I commit serious time and money into CEP's where command will come earlier than normal? "
Well, CEPs in BA get full sponsorship so it won't cost you anything. You should go for it if someone else is paying.
Bear in mind though that BA cadest start on a low salary and also repay that training cost.
I don't think you have really done much research.
You say that you think command will come earlier than normal. I think you will find that it is probably the opposite for anyone doing a full approved course. In BA for example, you might only be doing 50 hours a month, and most airlines require 4000 hours+ for a jet command. Whereas if you are doing hours yourself you can get them a lot quicker than that and join the airline with a lot of hours behind you already.
And there is certainly no fast track for those low hours people. Its down to minimum hours and ability. In BA also seniority is a big issue, virtually everyone I know in BA took 10-12 years to command whereas others who joined other airlines with more hours, had commands in 2-5 years.
So I would say, apply for sponsorships, yes, it'll save you loads of money, but if you really like flying and want to get an early command (not in BA) then fly in your spare time, of which you should have a reasonable amount. You do learn alot flying on your own in a light aircraft, or instructing.
And do your research properly next time.

[Girt_bar]

Thanks guys. Many airline pilots I know give me the impression that flying has no longer
become a passion but is merely a job that keeps food on the table. These people
would never go flying outside their job so I find it interesting that many of their
colleagues are out there flying charters and ferrying aircraft.

meslag..

I don't know which way to approach your post but as far as I am concerned the more
spinning the better. Stuff like that is why I start experiencing withdrawal symptoms
when I have not been near my tommyhawk for a few days!! By the way - I am not from the UK so I don't know what cap509ers are.

Grandad.

Admittedly my research regarding command time for these airlines with CEP schemes
is a little on the poor side. This is why I invite your posts to enlighten me. You showed
some interesting numbers. Cheers

I invite more comments.

Git_bar


[This message has been edited by Girt_bar (edited 16 January 2001).]

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

While its true we spend the vast majority of our flying time sipping coffee and letching after the hosties we do get to "Really" fly now and again.
Make no mistake when you have disconected everything except the control runs and are bending your 100 ton whizjet round the corner to finals with windmills and Greek ferries flashing past the windows and you catch your shadow on the ground and you've got those big Rollers purring and she's in the groove.....Ooooh Baby!!!

[meslag]

yawn yawn and yawn again.
ooh sir a cheeky little visual circuit. did sir keep it nice and tight? did he? only 4 miles downwind and stabalised at 500 feet?
that must be a real challange (like spelling correctly)

so a visual once in a while (some carriers dont do that you know.) Sure its closer to flying than most of the time but it is never challanging.
okay... so there is some flying, but not when you radar to the ils around major capitals there isnt.
Which is where most wannabes wanna be. (ie ba)

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

Scuse me Meslag for being such a bore as to actualy still enjoy flying .(and letching the hosties)It must be so tedious for you having to lower yourself to button pushing an airliner after so magnanimously turning down all those sponsors.Strikes me you are the one who doesnt really want to be an airline pilot so maybe you should go back to instructing and free up a seat for someone who does.
Don't wory girt bar,many of us who dreamed of flying big jets and now do still enjoy it.(I would also have given my right arm for a sponsor)
May all your approaches be fully coupled.

[This message has been edited by HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD (edited 18 January 2001).]