Virgin MPL 2017 [Archive]

stupotk

29th Oct 2016, 21:05

Hi all,
I have been hanging out on PPRuNe for a while, but this is my first post!

I attended the event at CTC today, was really good to meet other cadets from current courses including the Virgin MPL. To be honest, the deal is very similar to previous years - Virgin Atlantic will act as guarantor if you need the extra help - this was confirmed by Captain Simon Crook (Deputy Head Flight Operations Training and Standards at Virgin Atlantic).

In terms of likely salaries, the number I was quoted after completion of training is £24,000 - this doesn't include the bond repayment which would be on top of the salary. It also doesn't take in to consideration the loan repayment. I am still trying to work out a likely 'take-home pay' figure... I doubt it will be glamorous, but if I am sat in the right seat I won't mind! I could be quoting wrong but I am pretty sure they said by year 7 your salary will be up to approximately £66,000.

Good luck to all that apply... may the best 12 win!

twtiger

30th Oct 2016, 03:32

@stupotk

"I could be quoting wrong but I am pretty sure they said by year 7 your salary will be up to approximately £66,000."

I would be hoping after 7 years you would have already been upgraded.

A regular FO at Virgin gets around 60k. So does anyone know how long one would remain sitting as an SO?

000ft

30th Oct 2016, 10:03

Really hope that £24k is not the starting salary, that would be very bitter with the repayments

Just submitted my application today, wish everyone the best of luck!

stupotk

30th Oct 2016, 12:35

The £24k salary is definitely what was quoted for when you would start, but as I said it doesn't include the repayment of the security bond (so that's 'approx' £15k extra per year).

The loan repayments will be completely separate and I am not sure how much that will be each year.

MaverickPrime

30th Oct 2016, 16:15

Excluding cadets, a year 1 Direct Entry FO gets £70k!

Is there any published information regarding Virgin acting as a guarantor should you require it?

stupotk

30th Oct 2016, 16:25

I am yet to find anything published to be honest, but at the launch event yesterday they did say they would act as guarantor if needed. As they haven't put anything on the website, you may wish to email them to confirm...

bigapple05

30th Oct 2016, 19:18

Are they only looking for British applicants? Being Portuguese, I'm afraid they will prefer native speakers instead of me, although my English is quite good. What do you think?

I applied for the QR program last week (still haven't received any news and I'm expecting it to take a while) but I'd prefer this one, since with qr the license is issued by QCAA. Can I apply for both and see how far in the selection process i go, or do I have to choose one?

FlyVeryHigh-

30th Oct 2016, 20:09

I've an application also open for the EZY MPL so wondering how this works too.

I know that the first lot of VAA cadets start on £30k for the first 7 years.

bigapple05

30th Oct 2016, 20:51

£30k plus the bond repayment or just £30k? Financially qr is more attractive... And what about being a non native speaker, do you think that will be a problem?

JM926

30th Oct 2016, 22:05

to twtiger...

The chances of going from cadet to captain within 7 years at Virgin are likely to be slim to nil

twtiger

31st Oct 2016, 06:00

If the salary is 30k for seven years, and you're taking a 100k loan, then it doesn't make much sense does it..

Some ppl seem to be saying the bond is repaid during 9 years, but if its anything like the EZY MPL, they'll pay back 69k bond. That means you'll have less than 38k for seven years...

Financially the EZY MPL looks better if you plan to take a bank loan of course.

Officer Kite

31st Oct 2016, 09:45

Easyjet don't pay you back 69000 though. They pay you 12000 less than what they would have paid you for a few years, and pay you that 69000 back per year in tax free installments. The only financial benefits are tax savings which amount to a few thousand. You will not be getting 69000 back as CTC like to have people think!

PrettyFlyForAWifi

31st Oct 2016, 13:08

Application submitted, good luck to all :)

KayPam

31st Oct 2016, 14:07

Would anyone have more info about the selection process ?

A lower salary and the mpl would bet drawbacks though

Officer Kite

31st Oct 2016, 15:19

I really don't know how virgin compares to EZY. I know that for EZY you can expect £40,000 in year 1 of your permanent contract (which is year 2 after training if your UK or Germany based!) and something similar for year 2. Then in year 3 it rises to £48,500 basic pay (so greater when factored for sector pay). Then you're on your way to £50,000+ from then on.
You also get a bonus from year 2 of your permanent contract onwards (5% basic salary) so you can add that into the figures mentioned.
The above is more suited to an easyjet thread but i've included it for those wanting to compare, my sources are actual easyjet pilots who did the EZY MPL and have been working a while now.

There appears to be conflicting info about Virgin at the moment so makes it difficult to compare !

Chris the Robot

31st Oct 2016, 19:32

I applied for this last year, got as far as CTC but alas no further. Whilst getting to the round of 300 from 3,000 or so wasn't too shabby for a first-ever cadet application, I'd urge everyone to be discerning when looking at cadet programmes.

I went for a different well-known airline a few months back. This airline paid for the entire training cost up front, got to the round 72 from 3,000 applicants on that one. Absolutely gutted but since I've got a decent job lined up (pending a few things like a medical) in a different industry with largely better T&Cs I may not be applying for a few years.

Take a look at Virgin's recent train driver recruitment and decide for yourself where the best value is.

ManUtd1999

31st Oct 2016, 20:57

In terms of likely salaries, the number I was quoted after completion of training is £24,000 - this doesn't include the bond repayment which would be on top of the salary. It also doesn't take in to consideration the loan repayment. I am still trying to work out a likely 'take-home pay' figure... I doubt it will be glamorous, but if I am sat in the right seat I won't mind! I could be quoting wrong but I am pretty sure they said by year 7 your salary will be up to approximately £66,000.

As a (very) rough estimate 24k works out at about 18k take-home. For a loan of 100k at 5% interest rate over 11 years (9 year bond repayment + 2 years training) works out at about 1.2k / month. Virgin will be paying ~1k so you'll be left with ~1200 / month take home initially, maybe a bit less if interest rates rise. Some other things to consider though:

- I don't know if the quoted figures include duty pay, this could add quite a bit to the 24k
- 66k after 7 years equates to annual pay rises of ~5.5k, not many jobs offer that!
- I have Nno inside knowledge so some or all of the above assumptions may be incorrect

Overall I'd not worry too much about the salary. If you weren't going to be able to make the repayments then Virgin wouldn't be guaranteeing a loan. As a new start cadet you can't go expecting to be loaded.

With Easyjet's scheme the whole equation changes. When it is your parents house on the line you need a substantially more secure financial offer than a Flexicrew contract IMO.

Argen

31st Oct 2016, 21:47

First post :) Joined pprune because I want to apply for VA's CPC program too.

However, this thread has mostly made me not want to apply. As a 29 y/o who worked his ass off and now is getting 52k/year from a comfy London IT job... telling my wife I'm gonna go to train for 2 years and only make 24k/year when I get out.... will be a deal breaker :(

I was clearly wrong in thinking that being a pilot was a very well paid job (at least for the first 10 years). In my current career path, I'll be at 75k+ in 5 years, no longer does this makes financial sense.

Hear me out, I'm just being real here, because I want to fly for the love of flying, not because of the money. But if it's really only 24k/year to take home (£1,623 cash - source (http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php)), how is this realistic for working 35 hours a week for people not living with their parents? A buddy of mine just got a Linux admin job with minimal experience... starts at 40k/year! Something not right here.

Maybe I got this all wrong, but talking about this with real numbers, crumbs, this kinda sucks.

BUT... flying an A330 for Virgin does make it sound totally worth it, man, the bragging rights ALONE are worth it:
- How was your week?
- "Set up a few servers, you?"
- Hum, well I flew a sexy A330 with 260+ folk to NZ, spent a few days travelling around NZ, then flew back.
- "... you suck."

Officer Kite

31st Oct 2016, 22:21

.
With Easyjet's scheme the whole equation changes. When it is your parents house on the line you need a substantially more secure financial offer than a Flexicrew contract IMO.

Easyjet do offer a permanent contract straight away if you take a base outside the UK or Germany in year 1.

JM926

1st Nov 2016, 09:52

First of well, welcome to pprune. But with the best will in the world, from someone already doing the job for a different carrier, having bragging rights of flying a jet is one of the worst reasons anyone could consider going into the job. Most interview panels would see right through it.

Any research into any past scheme will quickly show you that if a company pays for/provides security for/assists with costs of a loan or course, starting salaries are almost always lower. You're free to go and do your own course self funded at a school and apply for jobs off your own back at what then might be a different or higher salary-although you'd likely have to settle for bragging rights on flying an A320 or 737.

Sorry if that's a little harsh-just trying to let you know how your post comes across to those in the industry...

Officer Kite

1st Nov 2016, 10:16

I would take everything I read on here with a pinch of salt, do not base your decision off of what someone said on Pprune. Though having said that, you often do get gems on here which are really useful.

Moving on, whilst we all want to get the best financial deal we can and we're not all totally blinded (for the most part) by flying, we do all aim to minimse the financial hit and aim for the best salary we can find. However as you have quickly realised, being a pilot is most certainly not to be done with the hope of getting rich. Now there are various captains out there earning up to £140,000 a year, however that is the pinnacle of the career and won't be something you touch for a while.

To sum it up, if you're hoping to get rich quick ... move along. If you're willing to earn around the 40,000 - 70,000 range for a few years before you start to hit the big bucks then it may be worth considering if you really love flying (not for bragging rights alone I hope! :cool:

And by the way, loans aside, earning £40,000 and rising to around £70,000 + in the first few years of a job is quite high in comparison to the rest of the country, I wouldn't be turning my nose up at it anyway.

stupotk

1st Nov 2016, 10:53

I think it's important to note that this is an online forum with various people often giving conflicting information - so I definitely agree with the above, you should take a lot of what you read with a pinch of salt.

Having said that, it is clear that the MPL has mixed reviews from aspiring and qualified pilots alike. My opinion, for what it's worth, the ATPL route is more desirable in terms of the amount of training and PIC hours, but going 'white tail' is arguably more risky due to the reduced job security. The MPL provides that job security, but reduces your starting salary - personally I think it's worth it! Especially with such a good company like Virgin Atlantic!

I understand that often the MPL is described as a licence which ties you to that airline as a First Officer with no possibilities to change airline or become a Captain. That quite simply is not true (from my research) - after 1500 hours an MPL will convert to an unfrozen ATPL which makes you just as qualified as those who follow the white tail route. I am willing to stand corrected on this, but I am pretty confident this is the case.

LandingConfig

1st Nov 2016, 11:03

I would take everything I read on here with a pinch of salt, do not base your decision off of what someone said on PPRuNe. Though having said that, you often do get gems on here which are really useful.

Should be the new description for the wannabe subforum.

Officer Kite

1st Nov 2016, 11:23

I understand that often the MPL is described as a licence which ties you to that airline as a First Officer with no possibilities to change airline or become a Captain. That quite simply is not true (from my research) - after 1500 hours an MPL will convert to an unfrozen ATPL which makes you just as qualified as those who follow the white tail route. I am willing to stand corrected on this, but I am pretty confident this is the case.

Nail on the head. Anyone who thinks in 10-15 years time an airline's chief pilot is gonna say "this guy is just as qualified as us all with his 9000hrs and ATPL, but he can't be a captain for us ... he did an MPL" is not really with it if I'm to be rudely honest.

aearose

1st Nov 2016, 11:31

Hi All,

I attended the Open Day at CTC, but the information I received regarding Salary seemed slightly conflicting, or I mis-understood something.

Can anyone confirm the starting Salary for Virgin Cadets on MPL, and when you will receive your 1st paycheck.

For example, is the Salary 40k a year, but you will only receive around £25k , because of the Loan repayment taken from it?

Or

Is the Salary around £25k, and then the Loan payment is taken from that?

Does anyone know the increase in salary each year?
Also, at what point will you become a FO?

Speedbird148

1st Nov 2016, 12:47

There is a Q&A session with CTC on facebook tomorrow from 10am-3pm UK time. So that may provide some opportunities to tackle some of the uncertainties raised.

Wannabeflyer94

2nd Nov 2016, 08:29

Hello everyone.

Here's the info on financing that everyone seems to be interested in, which has come from one of the current cadets on the course.

The starting salery is around 25000. Starting. This then increases over 9 years till you are in line with the direct entry first officers in the company, around 66,000 a year. Once at this level you move onto a full first officer contract. On top of this, the company will give you the money to pay back the 109,000 training loan, around 15,000 a year. The only thing you touch your salery for is tax and interest. So the first year you will be taking home around 40,000 pounds to live off and pay the loan back.
As well, whilst flying you get trip allowances which vary with route, which can be spent down route so you don't touch your wage. Making the take home very good and much more competitive than other airlines.

This Saturday the cadets and pilots are at the flyers event at Heathrow Sofitel. I'd recommend going to gain as much information as possible.

There are 12 places again this year and competition will be tough for sure. I've applied and good luck to everyone

aearose

2nd Nov 2016, 09:15

Hi Wannabeflyer94,

Thank you for the info.

Any ideas if the 15k you get back will be subject to tax?

How much in total will cadets pay back? i.e, The loan is £109k, but is there interest to pay on top of that?
Can you pay the loan back early?

Does annual Pay increase by a fixed amount after each year, until you get to 66k?
or does it vary? Year1 25k, Year2 26k, Year3 27k...... Year8 50k, Year9 66k.

My other question I have is about the amount of time spent outside of the UK.
During the presentation at CTC, the impression I got was 11weeks away (New Zealand), in the CTC brochure it says 22weeks, and when I phoned CTC they told me 8months.
Any ideas?

@Wannabeflyer94
Good luck with your application. :ok:

stupotk

2nd Nov 2016, 11:55

I am pretty sure the security bond is for the total of £109,000 so you get the whole £109,000 paid back to you over the 9 years.

Looking at the EasyJet MPL their security bond is £69,000 with further training costs on top of it - which is why you only get the £69,000 back through the bond.

In regards to the question about whether it is tax free, it is taxed differently to your normal salary - it is tax efficient to both Virgin Atlantic and the Cadet. I cannot say exactly what the tax rate is, but it is desirable!

Any interest on the loan (I have calculated it to be around £23,000 - but this is an 'guesstimate') you wouldn't get any help from the security bond payments.

beatrix

2nd Nov 2016, 16:43

I can't see an upper age limit anywhere - I'm assuming because of the laws surrounding advertising of jobs with upper age limits - So what, theoretically, is the upper limit?

Not that it will sway me from applying - that's for Mrs Beatrix to try!

Mind you, trying to finance a mortgage and two children through 2 years of training might be the final nail in the coffin - pity they didn't offer these when I was single and lived with the parents! :sad:

JordanCoyle

2nd Nov 2016, 19:36

No age limit, its been known for people in late 30's to apply.

stupotk

2nd Nov 2016, 20:07

There is an official upper age limit of 55, due to airline pilot's having to retire at 65.
I personally wouldn't want to state a theoretical upper limit - if you have got what it takes then age shouldn't matter!

andy148

3rd Nov 2016, 08:28

Well i've applied and I'm 37, lets see if how it goes?

Due to labour law it's illegal to discriminate against peoples age, how ever what happens behind closed doors....

beatrix

3rd Nov 2016, 09:32

Me too andy148..

Us oldies should stick together ;-)

Something else I've not seen anyone else pose is what happens should VS decide to lay-off pilots in 5 years time due to whatever downturn happens (USA self-destructs after 4 years of Trump or Clinton for example) and the cadets are the first to go.. who pays for the loan? I guess it'll be the cadet, but if the cadet is bonded to Virgin, do they pay?

Cheers all

Officer Kite

3rd Nov 2016, 10:10

Personally the finances don't put me off. The only thing putting me off is that only in year 9 do you get the contract that a year 1 D/E FO would get. Maybe it's just me but that really stood out to me as something to be considered if you are able to secure funding for easyjet for example, you may well be a captain for them in that time. Whereas you would only be given the contract of a year 1 FO in Virgin. Serious considerations are required if you can afford other options.

I say "if", because if you're not able to then obviously it would be silly to not apply over that.

aearose

3rd Nov 2016, 10:34

Hi All,
I posted some questions on the CTC FB page about Cadet Salary, and got this response.

[I]“ provided you complete the training to the required standard, you'll join Virgin on a cadet salary of c.£25,000 p/a basic, plus the return of your bond, which will be an additional c.£12,000 each year. Furthermore, this bond amount is not subject to government deductions. Your salary will increase each year and then you will being to receive a First Officer Salary by year 9 of employment which is c.£60,000 p/a basic.

I looked at the link provided for the loan, and it states an Interest rate of 4.99%. Which works out at £1254 per month, £15058 a year. This is £3058 short of the Bond repayment. Is this right?

aearose

3rd Nov 2016, 10:37

Can anyone confirm the time spent outside of the UK?
I am sure in the Virgin presentation at CTC, it stated 11 weeks, because you don't fly multi engine?
However CTC have told me 22weeks?
The brochure from CTC says 22weeks (NZ & UK)

stupotk

3rd Nov 2016, 13:21

I looked at the link provided for the loan, and it states an Interest rate of 4.99%. Which works out at £1254 per month, £15058 a year. This is £3058 short of the Bond repayment. Is this right?

The £109,000 bond gets paid back over 9 years, this is taxed at a low rate so you can expect approximately £108,000 back - this is how they have calculated the £12,000 per year/£1,000 per month.

Paying back your loan of £109,000 (plus considerable interest) you are inevitably going to be paying more back on the loan than you are receiving through the security bond each month. Hopefully that makes sense!

Cessnaflyer87

3rd Nov 2016, 13:26

Guys,

Just for clarification regarding funding and the guarantor position.

If Virgin were to guarantee the loan, thats all they would be doing. It would fall on you to repay the loan regardless of your employment status. The only eventuality where Virgin would have to step in is if you were to have to declare yourself bankrupt. That is not a position you want to be in, especially if you own any property.

With regards to the funding - be wary! The finance ATPL finance offer is 2.99% + Standard Trusts reference rate of 2% (total 4.99% currently).You have no control of this referance rate and purely relates to their cost of capital to lend you the money.

BBVA currently lends at 3% plus base rate which is currently 0.25% (total 3.25%) with base rate looking low for a long time it could be potentially cheaper whilst your loan capital is high during your first few years. However it was announced today that in the coming years it may start to rise as inflation does.

Make sure you look into the funding carefully. If Standard trusts cost to capital ratio increases you can be sure that your "all in rate" will increase aswell (and im not sure how they propose their 2% rate).
If base rate rises you will be hit by the increase cost- especially if this happens when the capital element of you loan is so high in the initial years.

I work in banking and ran a few models (base rate models) and these are only rough indications and do not take into account potential increases to base nor the fact the loan will be drawn down in tranches (i.e my assumption is that all 109K is drawn from day one). m

at 109K borrowing over 9 years at the current rate (3.25) you would pay 1,165 per month with a total cost to you of £125802.19 over the 108 months of repayment.

The same for standard trust would be £1253.39 per month with a total cost over 108 Months £135,366.89

These are only indicative figures and will move dependant on how much you borrow and the rates obtained by yourself.

Bealzebub

3rd Nov 2016, 14:04

The loan is guaranteed against Virgin, not you or your parent's house for example, so they will be liable for it, not you. That's one of the benefits of this scheme, they take the hit should it all go belly up.

As the poster above has cautioned, that is not correct. A guarantor provides a joint and several guarantee for a loan should a primary borrower default. It most certainly does not alleviate the primary borrower of liability in the event they default. If the guarantor should go "belly up" then the lender would seek to recover from the primary borrower in the event they defaulted, as well as from any realisable assets from the guarantor. You would not be alleviated in any way by the guarantors inability to pay as the loan would be joint and several. Certainly your parents (unless they were also guarantors) would have no financial interest in the liability for the loan, but you most certainly would.

You should also be aware that even though you may have provided no tangible security for the loan, that wouldn't necessarily prevent the lender from seeking recovery by way of such instruments as "charging orders" if they had unsatisfied court orders and you had realisable assets even if the loan was unsecured, which in this case is unlikely.

That isn't to say this is anything other than a good source of funding for such an expensive endeavour, but go into these things with a properly researched toolkit, rather than advice from the "you are off the hook" merchants. There is always risk attached and that needs to be balanced with a fall back provision commensurate with that risk.

aearose

3rd Nov 2016, 14:04

@Cessnaflyer87 (http://www.pprune.org/members/425323-cessnaflyer87)
thanks for the info

beatrix

3rd Nov 2016, 16:17

Consider this before worrying about only being on D/E FO salary in year 9.. I have worked in my "chosen" (read fell into) career for 15 years. For the last 10 I have been on a stagnant salary - and I mean completely stagnant. I earn exactly the same now as I did 10 years ago, and it's not even half of the year nine D/E FO salary - and unless I move jobs and location there's no chance of it increasing either!

In fact, the starting salary for cadet in howevermanymonthsitis is pretty much what I'm on now. And for an 18/19/20 year old it's a great salary!

Salary isn't everything... it's a lot, granted, but not everything - and what's awful for one could be life-changing for another!

Officer Kite

3rd Nov 2016, 16:33

Salary isn't everything... it's a lot, granted, but not everything - and what's awful for one could be life-changing for another!

I totally agree. Though whilst I think I did mention it, the salary wasn't the core point. I was more looking at how you will most likely be a captain in certain other airlines by the time you're only given the contract of a year 1 FO in virgin.

I think if other options are possible there is certainly better out there.

MaverickPrime

3rd Nov 2016, 17:23

The only thing putting me off is that only in year 9 do you get the contract that a year 1 D/E FO would get. Maybe it's just me but that really stood out to me as something to be considered if you are able to secure funding for easyjet for example, you may well be a captain for them in that time. Whereas you would only be given the contract of a year 1 FO in Virgin. Serious considerations are required if you can afford other options.

You've highlighted a point that everyone applying for the Virgin MPL needs to consider.

There are many pilots out there who have trained for a lot less than £109k. They got their first jobs in the likes of Ryanair, Flybe, Easyjet etc. With three or fours years experience at the aforementioned airlines, these guys have been able to join Virgin, BA, Emirates etc on the full pay scale.

If you sign up to the cadet scheme you will be on reduced pay for nine years. Hypothetically, someone else could train modular, join Ryanair and three years later use their experience to get a job at Virgin or BA on £70k/yr and they would be ahead of you by a few years in terms of pay. It has happened!!!

What if you loose your medical and therefore can't fly as a pilot? - you still have to pay back all that money, and don't say you have Loss Of Licence cover, because it doesn't always payout!

No matter what way you choose to go you will take on significant risks, but you need to be sure about the decision that you take and its implications on your life for the next ten years.

Im not trying to write this scheme off. It may workout very well for some people. Just don't view it as a silver bullet solution!

stupotk

3rd Nov 2016, 17:24

I agree with all the above, I guess it's swings and roundabouts! It also depends on personal circumstances whether this is an appropriate route.

For me, this is the only way to access the funding and I am not in any huge rush to get in the left seat - of course I want to get there but I have time on my side. Another thing to remember is, if successful, you are starting on long haul which is often the end goal for airline pilots.

(I say 'often' - this is a massive generalisation based on no fact at all, just an impression!)

stupotk

3rd Nov 2016, 17:29

Officer Kite

3rd Nov 2016, 17:41

you are starting on long haul which is often the end goal for airline pilots.

I say 'often' - this is a massive generalisation based on no fact at all, just an impression!

I was also once under that impression. However since I've started working for an airline, speaking to many pilots, I've come to realise it most certainly isn't the end goal for most people at all. "Over rated" is something I've heard said about it by ex long haul pilots many times. Many pilots just have no interest in it whatsoever. Not realising the value of one's own bed until flying long haul is also something many say.

Now having said that, I'm certain for many people long haul is da bomb.

It really is a case of each to their own and I don't think you can quite tell whether you'll enjoy it until you actually do it, could be wrong though.

It wouldn't be something that would affect whether or not I apply for virgin though ... 9 yrs to get a DE year 1 FO contract is certainly a more serious issue.

MaverickPrime

3rd Nov 2016, 17:51

Something I have been wondering... I know that rostering is done on a priority basis depending on length of service.

Would a direct entry First Officer be automatically higher on that priority list than a cadet who is in their 7th year with the company?

No, seniority shouldn't be affected because you joined as a cadet. A DEFO who joined after you should be lower in seniority. Alas, I don't work for Virgin and don't know how they will work it, but would be very surprised if your seniority as a cadet was also penalised.

stupotk

3rd Nov 2016, 17:54

I was also once under that impression. However since I've started working for an airline, speaking to many pilots, I've come to realise it most certainly isn't the end goal for most people at all.

That's very interesting to read - and also quite refreshing! To be honest, whether I flew on short or long haul doesn't matter to me - as long as I am flying I am happy!

Thanks for your comments, its definitely changed my mindset.

Having said that... at this moment in time, the Virgin MPL is my only option at the moment!

stupotk

3rd Nov 2016, 17:55

No, seniority shouldn't be affected because you joined as a cadet. A DEFO who joined after you should be lower in seniority. Alas, I don't work for Virgin and don't know how they will work it, but would be very surprised if your seniority as a cadet was also penalised.

Thanks, I was of the same opinion so hopefully it is the case!

Speedbird148

3rd Nov 2016, 19:03

Good to see topics being teased out for discussion.

Just wanted to check my understanding. After completing line training you then become a FO with Virgin (but on a reduced salary) ?

How many hours do you need to become an SFO with Virgin?

Just wondering if it's just pay that is limited until the 9 years mark when you move onto a FO pay scale or if it's all the other elements too.

momo95

4th Nov 2016, 01:23

I could be wrong but i'll try help with the little knowledge that i do have ...

1 - You will become a second officer from what i've been told. You will then rise to first officer after a certain amount of time and experience. You will be on a reduced salary for 9 years, at which point you then get the regular year one FO contract/salary (despite having been an FO for a number of years prior).

2 - It will be very tough to get that info here unless someone has spoken to Virgin or an employee directly to gain such knowledge, even then you would be given a time frame that would be subject to a number of variables, like most things in aviation are. Though SFO isn't really a position you would want to aspire to, that is command. I was previously of the impression that you were FO - SFO then CPT. Apparently not is what I've learnt in my airline (and it would certainly appear to be other airlines too from other colleagues elsewhere). If you end up as an SFO there is generally a reason for it and it isn't a good one.

3 - By "all the other elements" I will presume you mean gaining command etc. I should think they wouldbe limited up till year 9 (or such is the current plan at least) if they are only giving you a year 1DE FO contract at that point. If you got your command in year 9 you wouldn't be receiving that contract I would imagine.

Hopefully that helps somewhat,

Speedbird148

4th Nov 2016, 09:06

Cheers @momo95 for the insight. Like you said I will have to ask Virgin to get the facts but appreciate the input :). Just trying to understand what the career progression prospects are.

ryanc106

4th Nov 2016, 10:33

Hi All,

When is the cut off for the Applications?

Cheers

JordanCoyle

4th Nov 2016, 13:10

14th November.

stupotk

4th Nov 2016, 13:48

It's 12 places in total - 6 on each course.

Cutoff for applications is 14th November...

Flybrain

4th Nov 2016, 17:33

I see it was mentioned earlier in the post but does anybody know when you will start getting paid by Virgin? Might help a few people to know so they can work out if it would be feasible to not have any incomings for a certain amount of time.

stupotk

4th Nov 2016, 18:28

You start getting paid on commencement of line training with Virgin - effectively when you stop training with CTC.

andy148

5th Nov 2016, 17:58

Some serious food for thought...

So 9 years on a low salary, gaining small increments until year 9 when you go onto a full year 1 DEFO contract..

A ball park figure of 800 hrs a year, over 9 years, equals 7200hrs. I'm guessing anyone with this amount of time would be well on their way to a captains job?

On the face of it, it does not look that good of a deal as it first appears. I think this sponsored scheme is aimed at an age group of 18-25, and not really the older generation. Most people over that age might struggle as we're more likely to be married with a family?

It's a good way to the RHS of a career airline, somewhere where you could possibly never leave? But make sure you go in with your eyes open, lots to think about if the above figures are correct.

If you have the time, (for comparison) a friend is going to start line flying after completing the BAFPP. He came out with a f-ATPL and a full time year 1 FO contract on completion.

NatHiscocks

6th Nov 2016, 20:10

I applied for the MPL last year, the people who are on it are all over 20 years old, and a couple are ex cabin crew I believe. Its not to say this year they don't want younger generation people however?

onespeeed

6th Nov 2016, 23:04

A ball park figure of 800 hrs a year, over 9 years, equals 7200hrs. I'm guessing anyone with this amount of time would be well on their way to a captains job? My understanding is that airlines have a SFO for long haul flights to provide rest periods for the Captain and FO. My guess is that these positions are hard to fill so Virgin has launched this programme to fill in the gaps and also lower their costs of manning 3 pilots to all long haul flights. SFO positions will be hard to fill as you're never in control during take off and landing and also most airlines do not count SFO hours.

Could be wrong but i imagine once starting with Virgin you'll be a SFO for a few years filling in those gaps until a FO position opens up and then you will start with 0 hours. This is risky as normally the min requirement for applying with other airlines is 1,500 hours and you may not reach that for many years.

stupotk

7th Nov 2016, 03:35

Could be wrong but i imagine once starting with Virgin you'll be a SFO for a few years filling in those gaps until a FO positions and then you will start with 0 hours.

This is the first time I have heard anything like this... and I thought I had researched fairly well!!

It would be very interesting to find out if this is the case...

VariablePitchP

7th Nov 2016, 05:02

Lots of interesting thoughts on the scheme which is to be expected...

Mu understanding is that airlines have a SFO for long haul flights to provide rest periods for the Captain and FO. My guess is that these positions are hard to fill so Virgin has launched this programme to fill in the gaps and also lower their costs of manning 3 pilots to all long haul flights. SFO positions will be hard to fill as you're never in control during take off and landing and also most airlines do not count SFO hours.

Could be wrong but i imagine once starting with Virgin you'll be a SFO for a few years filling in those gaps until a FO positions and then you will start with 0 hours. This is risky as normally the min requirement for applying with other airlines is 1,500 hours and you may not reach that for many years.

SFO/FO/? Some definitions... FO is a First Officer (2 stripes), SFO is a Senior First Officer (3 stripes). Though this is essentially arbitrary, you could be called SO for Second Officer (2 stripes) or FO for First Officer (3 stripes), the only difference is what the name badge says. You start as a First Officer, not a second officer, you are a fully qualified co pilot on the A330.

Virgin A330s do not have secondary 'cruise' type pilots, indeed none of their fleets do. If ever it goes above 8 hours then you just get another co pilot. Cathay are pretty much the only airline left that have cruise first officers anymore as they are so limited in what they can do.

You wear two stripes when you join as an FO simply due to the low number of hours WITH THE COMPANY you have, the same way as many airlines do. This has nothing to do with duties, qualifications etc. After a few years and hitting the threshold for SFO (Senior First Officer), you get the third stripe, just as would happen with direct entry pilots.

To suggest that by doing the MPL you come out with an inferior license is a pretty hard argument to make, its the same job in the same jet, just a slightly different route.

If you have the time, (for comparison) a friend is going to start line flying after completing the BAFPP. He came out with a f-ATPL and a full time year 1 FO contract on completion.

Another slight error from above, if you do the BAFPP you get an ATPL (again not that it really matters) but you do go onto a reduced pay scale for the first 7 years of employment - you do not join on a regular FO contract.

I applied for the MPL last year, the people who are on it are all over 20 years old, and a couple are ex cabin crew I believe. Its not to say this year they don't want younger generation people however?

There are people currently on the programme who have just finished school, just finished uni, early 20s as well as those with more life experience. If you have what they want they will take anyone at any age.

onespeeed

7th Nov 2016, 09:17

Well to be fair VA have not exactly been very open about the terms of loan, repayment plan and salary... Most of the information circulating around here is snippets from past cadets or VA staff that to be honest is still not that clear.

It is just a guess but I think it makes sense.Why put a cadet into the right seat when that means you have to go out and recruit an experienced pilot -- for 70k a year -- to be a SO.:rolleyes:

h1ghfly3r

7th Nov 2016, 10:42

Spoke to some of the cadets at the open day, few bits of useful info:
- it's an incremental pay scale which transitions across to the equivalent year 10 scale of a DE pilot after completion of the 9 years
- You start as an FO
- 12 places
- apparently corporate sponsorship is available for loans
Hope that clears things up, good luck everybody :D

flyer16

7th Nov 2016, 13:35

Overall on balance it sounds like a great scheme. I see lots of posts about the employment being for 9 years on a reduced FO salary and then getting onto a DEFO salary. Not sure if this is correct but what is stopping an FO building a say 2500 hours over say 3 years and then leaving Virgin to take at DEFO salary in another airline. Yes, you would forfeit your bond repayments but the DEFO salaries if competitive at other airlines would offset this amount? Or are cadets legally tied to Virgin for the 9 year period and leaving the scheme would incur financial penalty?

onespeeed

7th Nov 2016, 19:40

Virgin A330s do not have secondary 'cruise' type pilots, indeed none of their fleets do. If ever it goes above 8 hours then you just get another co pilot. Cathay are pretty much the only airline left that have cruise first officers anymore as they are so limited in what they can do.

Fair enough, but aren't the majority of flights over 8 hours for VA? Do we know if hours are counted for flights where you are the third pilot?

stupotk

7th Nov 2016, 23:28

onespeeed

8th Nov 2016, 20:07

Ok makes sense... I've been on 2 long haul flights with VA this year and have seen 3 pilots on each (one flight was 11.5 hours to Shanghai). Maybe this was because they were cadets. They all looked to be at least late 40s though .... At least that gives hope to some of the older applicants amongst us! :ok:

sara98

8th Nov 2016, 22:52

Hi everyone,

Do you know what they mean by "What experience do you have of being around aircraft?"?? I am worried to misunderstand this question!!
It is asked while completing the application form!!

Many thanks in advanced :)

FlyANA

9th Nov 2016, 20:10

There's no cadets on the line with VA yet. Flights over approx 11 hours require augmented crew in order for the crew to get adequate rest. This is from EASA FTL Regulations:

(2) The maximum daily FDP under the provisions of ORO.FTL.205 (e) may be
extended due to in-flight rest for flight crew:
(i) with one additional flight crew member:
(A) up to 14 hours with class 3 rest facilities;
(B) up to 15 hours with class 2 rest facilities; or
(C) up to 16 hours with class 1 rest facilities;

(ii) with two additional flight crew members:
(A) up to 15 hours with class 3 rest facilities;
(B) up to 16 hours with class 2 rest facilities; or
(C) up to 17 hours with class 1 rest facilities.

There are no second officers or relief crews at VS, just First Officers who rotate roles on the long sectors which are mainly flown by 787s and A340s.

The MPL scheme is for the A330 only which is always in two crew ops at VS. So any cadets will actually being flying the aircraft in the RHS the same as any FO after the line training section is over.

stupotk

11th Nov 2016, 16:47

In regards to the question about 'being around aircraft', I would imagine it is quite vague for a reason - to give you an opportunity to sell yourself. It could mean anything from looking at aircraft at a museum to going flying in an airliner on holiday.

Where it asks you to provide a list - I would suggest answering it as a paragraph would be incorrect...

PiterPSP

13th Nov 2016, 13:55

The application is open "untill 14th november 2016" - does it mean I can still submit application tomorrow or it has to be done today before 23:59?? I'm not a native English speaker and after some research in internet it looks like this term is not 100% clear and even natives had problems with deadlines. So maybe someone can tell from his own experience, is 14th november included in deadline?

polar25

14th Nov 2016, 07:22

As far I know from last year the 14th should be included in the deadline. If there is no time specified I would assume either by the end of the working day (5pm) or by 23.59 on the 14th.

EZY_FR

14th Nov 2016, 09:07

The scheme closes at 1pm today guys!

Chris the Robot

14th Nov 2016, 12:01

They must have had more people applying this year, they extended the opening last year for at least another week.

If they were Lingus-esque in the funding I'd say go for it without question though I'm going to be sitting it out this year after getting as far as Dibden Manor last year. Good luck to all those who apply though!

FlyVeryHigh-

17th Nov 2016, 21:00

What does everyone application status say when they sign in? Under application status ot says "Unfortunately this prpgramme has now closed. Incomplete application cannot be submitted".

I got a confirmation when mine was submitted but from that it looks like is isn't? Help haha.

stupotk

17th Nov 2016, 21:17

Hi FlyVeryHigh,

Fear not - mine says the same! On the right side of the page it says 'Awaiting Selection' so I would guess that's the actual application.

LukeChafer

2nd Dec 2016, 17:28

Anyone know when they start to email out whether you've been succesful or not?

pilotjimbo

5th Dec 2016, 06:57

I received an email on the 24th Nov asking for scans of my academic qualifications. Judging by last years topic, people started to receive emails regarding the outcome of their online application around the first week of December. It could be any day now!

stupotk

5th Dec 2016, 13:17

Anyone know when they start to email out whether you've been succesful or not?

We were told at the Open Day we should hear from them in December... so hopefully we will find out in the next couple of weeks!

mstockwell

6th Dec 2016, 14:48

They are vetting the applications now- we should know shortly. I received an email RE: ATPL subjects taken; as I started down the modular route, no response to that as of yet.

James2301

10th Dec 2016, 15:40

Hi

I was simply wondering how many of you have had a response from CTC?

As it has previously been mentioned, people should be recieving emails any day now. However, I am yet to receive any news...

Should I be worried? :)

FlyVeryHigh-

10th Dec 2016, 21:26

Don't think anyone has got one yet. There will undoubtedly be a flurry of posts on here once responses are sent out. Chillax

FOBon

16th Dec 2016, 15:58

I've just had a reply saying I've been successful at the application stage.

tfin25

16th Dec 2016, 15:58

Just received my email.

JordanCoyle

16th Dec 2016, 16:22

Just received mine too.

stupotk

16th Dec 2016, 16:37

It was only a matter of time until all of these posts arrived! I have also received my response...

Congratulations to everyone who got through to the next stage - and good luck!

blondesrule18

16th Dec 2016, 19:29

I got my email this afternoon and it was good news! Good luck to everyone!

James2301

16th Dec 2016, 19:54

Congratulations to all who have received their emails and have been successful!

Is it the case that everyone who has received an email has been successful at the application stage? I am yet to receive an e-mail, and my status is still at the 'awaiting selection' stage... Could it possibly be the case that they are emailing successful applicants first?

BigBoeing

16th Dec 2016, 20:31

Could anyone please post a link to the login page for the Virgin application please. It seems very hard to find from the Ctc Website. Thanks!

stupotk

16th Dec 2016, 21:10

Hi, the link is:
http://virgin.ctcaviation.com

JackVince

16th Dec 2016, 21:26

Does anyone know if every successful email is sent at once because my application still says awaiting selection? 😊

tenspeed

16th Dec 2016, 22:00

Did the email mention selection dates? If so would anyone mind posting the timeframe of dates? Trying to plan time off work if successful...

mjennings061

17th Dec 2016, 00:51

Only selection date for me is 21st December. If £200 flights and a hotel over the Christmas period doesn't show dedication then I don't know what does.

Mount

17th Dec 2016, 07:09

Ah, to the people who received an email, first of all congratulations, but I'm just wondering when did you guys send off your application? Are they sending out emails to all the people who have passed first, or are they just doing it in order they received applications?

Thanks

Jbaldwin95

17th Dec 2016, 08:48

Well done to everyone who was succesful!

Anyone know what we can do to prepare for the assesment day? Sounds like it's going to be pretty full on with tests, group exercises and interviews on the same day.

Will it be the same PILAPT test that CTC uses for their flying schemes and for Gen EZY?

EZY_FR

17th Dec 2016, 12:02

Best of luck guys! I really recommend an AirlinePrep session to those who have interviews, they really open your eyes as to how to perform at the interview, how to structure your answers, techniques and tips on how to do well at group exercises, the maths test, etc.

gbotley

17th Dec 2016, 14:53

mjennings061

17th Dec 2016, 20:25

It seems there's no available dates when I go to apply for Phase 2 selection. Strange.

LukeChafer

17th Dec 2016, 22:19

Still says awaiting selection on mine and no email. Nerves getting worse as the days go on!

Jbaldwin95

17th Dec 2016, 22:36

@Jbaldwin95,

Both Virgin Atlantic assessments I attended followed the CTC Whitetail assessment structure with a couple of small changes to the group tasks to make it more appropriate to Virgin, but it does indeed contain a PILAPT, Maths Test and Group Exercise. I actually wrote about the process, might be worth a read. I can't comment on the final stages though as I didn't make the final Crawley shortlisted so instead joined the Whitetail route.

Good luck!
Awesome @gbotley, what post(s) of yours are you talking about specifically?

+ congrats on being able to follow your dream, I hope I can be so luckly shortly.

It seems there's no available dates when I go to apply for Phase 2 selection. Strange.
CTC's stage 2 assesment days get filled up VERY quickly (much faster than OAA's for some reason), just got to keep checking for new slots, hopefully there will be some in a week or two's time, I couldn't make the ones for this coming week, no matter how hard I tried, because of work commitments and the short notice (only found out on friday).

gbotley

17th Dec 2016, 22:51

@mjennings061 - Keep checking the site regularly as the selection team told me when I applied last time that in order to ensure selection days fill up they only release them batches at a time. What's more, when no more are remaining I'd imagine that slots need to be confirmed with Virgin -- if indeed they plan to attend selections this year. I'll also add that as it's Christmas time, just as last year, that if dates are booked up over Christmas that new ones won't be added until CTC returns in the NY.

@LukeChafer - There didn't seem to be any pattern in their emails last time around, I felt just like you for some time but I eventually got news. For the time being sit tight and remember that no news is good news :-)

Best of luck to everyone!

PiterPSP

18th Dec 2016, 22:12

Still waiting for email as well.
But it's strange that they decided to start assessments this year. On CTC page it says:
"The selection events with CTC Aviation will take place in January 2017"
To be honest it is a shock to the system that they are carrying assessments on dates like 21st Dec! It would be good if new slots were available for January

andy148

19th Dec 2016, 03:51

There will be selection dates in January, i had it confirmed by the selection team this week. I cant make start notice dates due to work commitments either.

James2301

19th Dec 2016, 12:27

Will they wait a while now until they offer selection days to the next batch of successful applicants? Or will it be this coming week?

PrettyFlyForAWifi

19th Dec 2016, 13:27

Have not yet received an e-mail, however once logged onto the website I have passed phase 1 apparently. Strange.

Can select 22nd of December and 3rd/4th of January.

James2301

19th Dec 2016, 14:26

Strange... which website? The one where the application is? And have you checked your junk folder?

Mount

19th Dec 2016, 15:02

Got rejected just wondering to those people who got through, do you guys have experience of flying already? I kind of want to figure out how to make my application stronger for next time. Thanks. Also congrats for getting through!

pilotjimbo

19th Dec 2016, 16:53

Congratulations to all those who have made it through!

I received my PFO email earlier, which leaves me quite bewilidered as to what they are really looking for!

I spent all but a day of the application window to ensure my application was written as well as it could have been. Double & Triple checked;

Recently completed my PPL + Night Rating.

Worked as Cabin Crew for three years (Short Haul, and now on Long Haul)

Meet the minimum education requirements.

Not sure what else would show such commitent to the industry and role! But never mind.

Best of luck in the second stages guys!

JackVince

19th Dec 2016, 17:44

Mine says unsuccessful but no email yet. How long do you have to wait to apply for another scheme?

BaronVonBarnstormer

20th Dec 2016, 09:44

Hangar_9

20th Dec 2016, 14:05

Sadly, a rejection here as well. Disappointing but it just makes me more determined.

PPL (Air League scholarship) + Night rating. 6 years in airline / business jet ops. Variety of voluntary and extra-curricular activity.

I understand why but It's a real shame we cannot get feedback. It's the second year I've applied and the second time I've been rejected at stage 1. I'd love to know where I'm going wrong? My questions answered in the final section were seen by a few industry eyes before submission. I hoped I'd at least get to the Interview stage.

In the meantime though, onward and upwards!

PiterPSP

20th Dec 2016, 14:24

I just got rejected too.

Last year I got through to phase 4 interview with Virgin, which was the final 48/6000 odd.

The questions were the same this year so I used the same answers i wrote last year, with a few very minor tweaks to make it read better and bring it up to date.

I have 200 hours Gliding so no question I have the commitment to aviation.

I cant see how the goalposts have moved so much?
I think using same answeres was the thing that let you down, Baron. I read many times on this forum: do not put the same answers twice! It may have been perceived as choosing a soft option or being lazy. Maybe those minor changes were not enough to show them how you have improved since previous application.
On the other hand, they stated in rejection emails (unfortunately I received one...) that the response to porgramme was "unprecedented" and "overall standard was fantastic"
It's obvious that they had to reject plethora great applications due to limits of candidates for stage 2. And that was very demanding task for the selection team. Eventually that's only 12 places we're competing for, so hundreds of us will feel underestimated and disappointed but unfortunately that's how it is in this profession.
Good luck to all and hopefully see you next time on assessments and eventually in flightdeck!

ryan1995

20th Dec 2016, 14:30

Another rejection here too unfortunately under similar circumstances - would almost love to know what more I can do! Maybe the lack of further education?

PPL self funded by working in aviation since leaving college 3 years back, as well as various other aviation related hobbies/activities and volunteering.

Annoying since I put a lot of time and effort in to the essay questions!

Would like to know the backgrounds of some who have progressed to see what else I could do to better myself next time :ok:

yankee_alpha

20th Dec 2016, 14:41

If I recall correctly, the questions requested answers in list format not essays?

I have also been rejected for a different airline by using more or less the same answers that served me well the year before. I found if they ask the same questions like 'Why do you want to become a pilot' then the answer doesn't really change from one year to the next.

FlyVeryHigh-

20th Dec 2016, 15:11

Id be happy to share my answers with a few as I was successful in this stage.

PM me if you want to have a chat.

stupotk

20th Dec 2016, 15:41

If I recall correctly, the questions requested answers in list format not essays?

3 of the questions requested answers in list format, the other 3 questions requested answers in essay format.

pilotjimbo

20th Dec 2016, 16:33

It's re-assuring to see that other applicants with such drive and experience have also been let down this time.

The big dilemma is, start the ATPLs modular, or hold back another year for another chance at a similar scheme!

Cheers guys

flyer16

21st Dec 2016, 01:40

I was also rejected. I have PPL flying experience and felt i portrayed my passion for the industry pretty well. Certainly feel like I have 'earned' the right to get through to the next round but sometimes things happen for a reason.

Although I am sad about not getting through to the interview stage like others have said it only makes me more determined to make it work. I also believe a small element of luck comes into it on these applications. They read 5000 applications and have to get it down to 100-300, numerous guys/girls that are completely capable and passionate will still have to be rejected so I am not letting it put me off applying again. ATPL modular or perhaps whitetail has its advantages as well. Regardless of the route people take, if you want to be a pilot and you have the drive you can make it happen.

Jbaldwin95

21st Dec 2016, 11:32

Anyone doing their Stage 2 today/tommorow?

conorflyer

21st Dec 2016, 15:54

Hi Guys/Girls,

Congrats to those who have been successful, and to those of you who weren't I hope you get a break soon.

Is anyone able to point me in the right direction of any online aptitude tests or prep sites/apps for the selection day?

Or

If anyone has got any information on the selection day itself then I would love to have a chat.

MannyMont

21st Dec 2016, 16:02

Hello, I was successful and managed to book a slot on the 5th of January. Is anyone staying in a hotel on the 4th?

stupotk

22nd Dec 2016, 18:46

I have booked mine for 16th Jan... if anyone is going on the same one and staying the night before feel free to send me a PM!

ruleof3

23rd Dec 2016, 17:01

Anyone still waiting to hear either way?

TheHighFlyah

25th Dec 2016, 09:51

Could anyone that got through to the 2nd stage last year shed some light on the type of questions that could be expected in the interview (2nd stage) please?

gbotley

27th Dec 2016, 09:53

@TheHighFlyah, they're of standard CTC style. Competency questions, with the odd one related to aviation, the flight deck environment and Virgin. Google is your friend in regards to this one.. you'll find hundreds of examples out there of these questions on the web. I found that my typical interview question asked for a generic answer and then they probed me to find if I could then relate this to being on the job at the airline.

Hope this helps :ok:

TheHighFlyah

27th Dec 2016, 15:24

@gbotley, thanks for the post buddy.. I've been finding your blog very useful too. Keep up the good work!

MannyMont

28th Dec 2016, 14:30

biasjames

2nd Jan 2017, 14:12

hi guys ive just made an account here was reffered by a friend, im attending the selection day on the 12th of jan, if any of you are attending the same day feel free to send me a message!

TheHighFlyah

3rd Jan 2017, 11:31

Anyone going on the 13th? Yes, Friday the 13th :/

mjennings061

6th Jan 2017, 11:37

Hi guys, so, there are 4 "phases" on this application. Am I correct to think that phase 2 consists of Math Test, Aptitude Test and Group exercise while phase 3 is the 1-to-1 interview? And will Phase 2 and 3 be on the same day? Thanks :)

That's correct. Phase 2 consists of numeracy, PILAPT and group interviews.

Phase 3 is a 1-to-1 interview with one of the CTC selection team.

Both are done on the same day and you will know the result in 48hrs if you're eligible for the CTC Whitetail ATPL.

I'm not sure when the final shortlist for Phase 4 will be announced, but I would assume this will be after the final assessment day (12th January?)

stupotk

6th Jan 2017, 11:42

I have my assessment day on 16th January... not sure if there are any after that though.

tfin25

6th Jan 2017, 12:44

Mine is pretty much at the end of January, CTC told me they wont be running any more after January though.

andy148

6th Jan 2017, 13:25

Interesting here that they won't be holding anymore selection days after January. Anyone have a rough idea on how many selection days are being conducted? It would be interesting to know how many got through to stage 2 at Dibden manor, against how many originally applied.

mjennings061

7th Jan 2017, 16:16

andy148,

On the assessment day, we were told roughly 5000 applied. There was 12 people on our day, with 18 being the usual number.

I wouldn't say the number would not be much more than 100 through to Phase 2/3

FlyVeryHigh-

9th Jan 2017, 15:33

mjennings,

Did you receive the outcome of your day yet? I'm up this week :E

mjennings061

9th Jan 2017, 18:58

I received my successful notification at around 1130hrs the next morning. Very quick!

stupotk

9th Jan 2017, 19:20

Congratulations! Great news!

EZY_FR

10th Jan 2017, 04:08

Well done! When you say successful, do you mean virgin will definitely invite you to the final round of interviews, or do you mean you've been passed the day to a set standard?

Jbaldwin95

10th Jan 2017, 11:35

I received my successful notification at around 1130hrs the next morning. Very quick!
Very well done! Any tips on would be candidates to be succesful ie what preperation one can do in advance?

J.charles

10th Jan 2017, 19:35

Congrats! Anyone else completed stage two give any info on the computer tests? Is it still relatively the same as what you can find online?

mjennings061

12th Jan 2017, 10:00

Well done! When you say successful, do you mean virgin will definitely invite you to the final round of interviews, or do you mean you've been passed the day to a set standard?

When I say successful I mean the CTC standard. Those who pass CTC will enter a shortlisting pool where Virgin Atlantic will take a reduced number to the board interview (Phase 4)

FlyVeryHigh-

13th Jan 2017, 17:01

Had my assessment this week. Through to the shortlist! Anyone else?

stupotk

13th Jan 2017, 17:28

Congratulations! I have my assessment on Monday so hopefully I'll be saying the same next week...!

FlyVeryHigh-

13th Jan 2017, 19:58

Congratulations! I have my assessment on Monday so hopefully I'll be saying the same next week...!

Thanks! Best of luck for yours!

TheHighFlyah

14th Jan 2017, 12:02

Anyone on here that went to an assessment on friday the 13th?

JordanCoyle

14th Jan 2017, 18:40

Anyone on the 18th?

conorflyer

16th Jan 2017, 18:47

Jordan, see you on the 18th mate

conorflyer

16th Jan 2017, 19:11

Hi Jordan. See you on the 18th

stupotk

17th Jan 2017, 13:34

I'm pleased to say I got my successful email today! Just got to wait and see if I'm through to the next stage...

andy148

17th Jan 2017, 17:25

Stupotk,

When did you do your day at Dibden manor?

With stage 4 being held on 8/9/10 Feb, we should know how successful we are by the end of January in order to give those lucky few the chance to prepare.

Anyone have any idea the numbers going to phase 4? I would assume maybe 18 candidates (3 groups of 6 for the team tasks) per day, possibly meaning 54 going forward?

FlyVeryHigh-

17th Jan 2017, 18:53

Not too sure on numbers, could be 30, could be 40, who knows!

Don't know when the last CTC selection day is for this unfortunately, which I guess would shed some light on it all. I've seen people mention 18th but nothing further?

stupotk

17th Jan 2017, 22:34

Hi Andy,
I did mine on Monday and heard back today. In terms of numbers I wouldn't want to take a guess just in case I'm completely wrong!

jonesy05

18th Jan 2017, 11:04

Also attended the selection day on the 16th, and had a successful email on the 17th :) I Believe they slim down to 48 for the final stage.

stupotk

18th Jan 2017, 13:02

Congratulations!

JordanCoyle

19th Jan 2017, 09:47

Unfortunately, that's me out. Got my email today. Passed everything but PILAPT.

Awaiting further feedback from CTC.

stupotk

19th Jan 2017, 10:00

Ahhh Jordan! I'm sorry to hear that.
I wish you the best for the next opportunity!

stupotk

25th Jan 2017, 13:27

I have a question regarding MPL schemes in general which I hope someone could shed some light on...

It is my understanding that after the completion of 1500 hours the MPL is converted to an unfrozen ATPL.

If this is correct, would you then get all of the licenses below an ATPL such as PPL/CPL/IR etc or would these need to be done separately?

gbotley

25th Jan 2017, 16:08

In respect of the MPL, on reaching 1500 hours you can (at your discretion) convert it to an ATPL by completing admin paperwork and of course providing the CAA with relevant payment. Due to the nature of the MPL the CAA would place a multi-crew restriction on it. This essentially means you can't therefore complete any single-pilot commercial ops or take a light aircraft out for a spin without first completing of the relevant training you'd otherwise complete within the PPL/CPL syllabus.

With that said though, graduates of Integrated ATPL programs are also unable to take single engine aircraft out without completing their SEP ratings.

If you fancy some light reading, you can find this in EASA PART-FCL Subpart F (FCL.405.A & FCL.505) in reference to upgrading to an ATPL. But to help you, I summarise the laws here:

When the applicant for of an ATPL(A) has previously held only an MPL, the privileges of the licence shall be restricted to multi-pilot operations but may be extended to single-pilot operations in aeroplanes, provided that the licence holder has completed the training necessary to act as PIC in single-pilot operations exercised solely by reference to instruments and passed the skill test of the IR(A) as a single-pilot prior to issue or any time thereafter.

Hope this helps you!

stupotk

25th Jan 2017, 16:19

That's great, thanks! And thanks for the reference - I shall check it out.

Can always rely on you for info, you're probably one of the most helpful on this forum!

gbotley

25th Jan 2017, 16:22

Thanks for the comment pal!

No need to go delving through the thousands of pages in the law books.. I've pasted the bit relevant to you in my old post above. (Edited it as you posted).

andy148

26th Jan 2017, 09:44

Does anyone have any idea when we are likely to find out if you have been successful, and being called forward to stage 4 at Crawley?

We were told the dates for phase 4 were 8/9/10 February, starting to feel like there won't be enough time to get things sorted if successful.

stupotk

26th Jan 2017, 09:47

I was told they had CTC assessment days up until the end of January, so I have planned for hearing back early February.

Won't be much notice! I have booked it off work just in case...

Of course - I could be wrong, which is why I seem to check my emails every hour!

polar25

26th Jan 2017, 10:37

As far as I was told, the last date for assessment at CTC was the 27th Jan so I would imagine the successful few would be told next week maybe around Wednesday/Thursday, but hopefully sooner!

andy148

26th Jan 2017, 15:14

Wow, thats not much time at all for the chosen few to prepare. I would haver appreciated more time (if successful), i need to give a decent amount of lead time to put in for holidays. It would be quite brutal to get a spot and not be able to attend due to not being able to get away, oh well. thanks for the heads up...

andy148

1st Feb 2017, 02:15

We should have an answer on who has been selected to go forward by the end of this week, good luck to everyone who's waiting.

stupotk

1st Feb 2017, 06:18

You too Andy!
I'll be trying not to check my emails every 10 minutes! Haha

jonesy05

1st Feb 2017, 09:35

Is that a definite confirmation from CTC that we'll know by the end of the week?

mjennings061

1st Feb 2017, 12:44

I also wonder if unsuccessful candidates will be given detailed feedback if they don't make it to Phase 4.

Regardless, good luck everyone.

andy148

1st Feb 2017, 16:28

Jonesy05,

nothing is definite, and it is a rumour network... :ok:

But it did come from a credible source.

stupotk

1st Feb 2017, 17:58

I had hoped we would have heard today due to the interviews possibly being held from the 8th next week.

Alas, I was wrong! Fingers crossed for tomorrow!

FlyVeryHigh-

1st Feb 2017, 20:19

Interviews are 8th, 9th and 10th :)

andy148

2nd Feb 2017, 10:38

Well I'll start... Just received my email.

It was fun while it lasted, for me the war is over.

Good luck to everyone else, i look forward to hearing of those successful.

stupotk

2nd Feb 2017, 15:37

Andy,
Sorry to hear that!

I can't quite believe I am saying this, but I have been invited to the next stage!

Good luck to everyone else :)

andy148

3rd Feb 2017, 04:31

Stupotk,

Congrat's, all the best for the next stage.

mjennings061

3rd Feb 2017, 07:09

My interview date is the 9th Feb. See you all there!

stupotk

8th Feb 2017, 19:36

Well - it was a great experience at The Base today, lots of high calibre individuals and I'm sure there will be a similar calibre of applicants tomorrow and Friday.

I'm glad it's done now! Bring on next week...

Good luck to those who were there today and to everyone else tomorrow and Friday :)

mjennings061

9th Feb 2017, 21:20

Agreed! I had mine today and the level everyone is at in terms of competency is unbelievable.

I heard next Wednesday is when the results are out. Did anybody hear differently?

stupotk

9th Feb 2017, 21:36

We were told:
If we are lucky - Monday afternoon
More likely - Tuesday afternoon
Worst case - by COP Friday

So from that - Wednesday is probably a safe bet, but Monday would be nice! Haha

sujiong

11th Feb 2017, 10:55

Tension is literally killing me. Keep having flashbacks to the interview!

sujiong

11th Feb 2017, 11:11

Also very much agree with the comments above about the calibre of fellow hopefuls met at the selection day. It's going to be brutal for them to whittle it down to 12. If they had 48 places I'm sure we would all get one. Very best of luck everyone.

polar25

11th Feb 2017, 13:07

Totally agree, those who make it through will have definitely deserved it! I'm the same, keep thinking back to things I could have added, but all we can do now is wait!

FlyVeryHigh-

13th Feb 2017, 08:25

Good luck this week all. I'm sure most of you are up and refreshing this form and your emails!

stupotk

13th Feb 2017, 09:27

Good luck this week all. I'm sure most of you are up and refreshing this form and your emails!

I am indeed! Haha
Although being at work the next few days I am limited to checking my emails every hour or so - it's torture!

Good luck everyone...

mjennings061

16th Feb 2017, 13:44

Dear John's are out today folks

stupotk

16th Feb 2017, 14:50

Yeah...
Bad news for me! Hey ho!
Good luck to everyone else :)

EZY_FR

17th Feb 2017, 09:26

Congratulations to all those that made the cut! Condolences for all those that weren't so fortunate, but the fact that you came so close means you're doing something right and another airline will surely recruit you in an instant! Don't ever give up, I know folk that got their chance after applying so many times.

Alis aspicit astra

20th Feb 2017, 09:01

Can't actually believe that I am writing this.....but I received the good news!

For all of you that didn't get the result that you were, please take a minute to read what I have to say.

I have been pursuing my dream for almost 8 years now, ever since these types of schemes made a reappearance post 9/11 and have received the bad news at almost every stage of the application process. That said, I viewed each unsuccessful attempt as a chance to review and improve for the next attempt. I'm not saying its been easy, in fact its be pretty disheartening at times and I have questioned my resolve to keep trying on a number of occasions; thinking what else can I actually do.

The best advice that I can give is to keep trying, do not give up, review what you did last time and think about how you can improve. One of the best things I did was to talk to as many people as I could, get them to proof read my applications, go through interview questions I thought would come up and discuss the examples that I had for each.

Finally, do not give up on your dream. If you want it enough, willing to put the hard work in, and lady luck is on your side then you will be rewarded.

Finally, massive congrats to all the others that have received the good news. If anyone was there on my final day, 10th, drop me a message as would be great to see who else got in. I could not have picked between us all tbh.

polar25

20th Feb 2017, 19:45

Hi AAA,

Congratulations! I too was successful this time round and cannot support enough what you've said. For those that have been unsuccessful try not to be too disheartened - it has taken me years of trying time after time to get here so please take the advice above as it will help you get where you want to be!

If there is anyone else who has been successful please feel free to PM me and you can be put in contact with some other successful candidates.

TheTypicalBrit

20th Feb 2017, 20:57

So are the currently successful people on to the program or on to part 4?

Thanks

stupotk

20th Feb 2017, 21:15

Congratulations!
Thanks for the advice - you both sound like you've tried and tried and truly deserve it! Good luck with the training!!

Aplucas

21st Feb 2017, 17:11