Logging IFR time

[tail low]

Hi.

Just wondering what the correct way to log IFR time is. So you are always on an IFR flight plan flying appropriate SID's, Stars & Approaches in and out of IMC or fully visual whatever the day brings.

In the log book (NZ) there is an actual, simulated and ground column. Are you just supposed to have a guesstimate of the time spent in actual IMC which goes into the actual column and simulated + ground columns would typically be used for training, simulator, hood etc..

So one could fly on an IFR operation without actually logging much IFR time if not much time spent in actual?

Assume NZ CAA and FAA would have similar ideas on logging IFR?

Cheers.

[BleedingAir]

First thing, you're talking about instrument flight time, not "IFR time". I don't know how the NZ regs spell it out, but the Aus regs define instrument time as time spent flying with *sole* reference to instruments, and in Aus the PF may still log IF with the autopilot engaged (although I don't), unless things have changed in the last few years. So yes, you can fly 8 hours of IFR in a day and not log a single minute of instrument time.

[witwiw]

So yes, you can fly 8 hours of IFR in a day and not log a single minute of instrument time.

But that doesn't stop some ..........

[emeritus]

I held an ATPL ( First & Second Class ) for 31 years and amassed just under 1200 hrs of instrument time. I only logged IF time while I hand flew the A/C or carried out a coupled approach ILS. It mattered not if the conditions were VFR or IFR as anyone who has flown a heavy A/C would realise.


Emeritus.

[BleedingAir]

I held an ATPL ( First & Second Class ) for 31 years and amassed just under 1200 hrs of instrument time. I only logged IF time while I hand flew the A/C or carried out a coupled approach ILS. It mattered not if the conditions were VFR or IFR as anyone who has flown a heavy A/C would realise.


Emeritus.

Yes. And I've seen young pilots in Aus tick over 500 ME command with 300 instrument hours in the book. Not only do they not realise that it's nearly impossible to properly log that much, but it looks ridiculous when you present the logbook in an interview.

[tail low]

Thank you fellas. Understood.

[Centaurus]

It mattered not if the conditions were VFR or IFR as anyone who has flown a heavy A/C would realise.



One presumes you had your tongue firmly in cheek when you wrote that gem.

Doesn't matter what type of aircraft you are flying, if you are in VMC you may well be looking at your flight instruments but you also have peripheral vision. If you are honest about logging in-flight instrument flight time, then your honesty is likely to be questioned if you can still see outside and unconsciously using visual cues through your peripheral vision.

[emeritus]

Centaurus....I was referring to the occasions when I carried out practice letdowns with the blind flying screen up to maintain recency requirements and/or maximum skill levels.

Emeritus

[outlandishoutlanding]

If I'm flying through 5-6/8 of cloud, what fraction of my flight can I log as IMC time? in the cloud i don't get a horizon; I get some time out but with no reference to the ground, although there is sky above.

[Tinstaafl]

I think it's a bit of each person's best guess at what IF they did on any given flight. Me? I try to log what I think is a fair representation of what was in cloud (ie no outside reference), and what was not. But I don't start a stopwatch each time I enter a cloud, and hit 'pause' until the next one.

I know that I *don't* confuse IF with IFR. In my 33 years/well over 8000 hours, I must have thousands of hours IFR because, depending on my job, most of my cross country flights were IFR, but I only have ~500hrs IF - and a significant amount of those were from my few years flying air ambulance light twins from the Shetland Islands where nearly all en-route flying is truly IMC below 10,000'.

[das Uber Soldat]

VMC = no log IF
IMC = log IF.

Whats not to get.

[emeritus]

Practice instrument letdown in VMC.....?

Emeritus.

[outlandishoutlanding]

uber soldat, the regs say:

"any time spent piloting an aircraft solely by reference to instruments and without external visual reference points in IMC or simulated IMC"

between the clouds, I'm still in IMC - inadequate horizontal separation to cloud. I have outside visual reference points, though - blue sky above me, but I can't really see the ground.

[Capt Fathom]

Practice instrument letdown in VMC.....?

With hood on and safety pilot = log IF
No hood = no log IF

[das Uber Soldat]

You're going to maintain wings level via reference to the blue sky above you? I hope you're joking. In the situation you described, I'm still maintaining attitude solely via the instruments. The sky isn't a reference point when you can't see the ground properly or a horizon.

If you're in enroute IMC and you're trying to fly using visual reference, you're doing it wrong.

This issue is brought up every 6 months and gets overcomplicated every time. You're never going to run into trouble if you log it as I posted above. VMC, no log. IMC, log. Training with a hood is obviously log.

[emeritus]

Seems I may not have explained myself adequately in my original post.

Re hand flying..I only logged IF when in instrument conditions ie night or in cloud or flying under the hood ( with an F/O )

At the end of the day,accurate/relevant logging of IF time is not all that important...one can either perform to the req standards or not.

Emeritus.