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Expatrick
18th Oct 2016, 10:17
Wife has just received a letter from her credit card provider asking for passport details plus one document from a separate list, ie copy of photo card licence, bank book, Govt. documents, etc. She has had this card for some 10 years. Provider is UK division of substantial American company. We have emailed their "scam help line" and await a response...(hope this is right place for this post).

funfly
18th Oct 2016, 10:28
This is always a good place to post anything. As to whether you get a sensible reply well - that's another matter.
However my contribution for what it's worth, is to treat everything as some sort of scam.
Yesterday I received 2,400 emails from 2,400 different girls who live next door to me offering me sex!
FF

DG101
18th Oct 2016, 10:45
You're gonna have a hard time getting through all 2400, FF

ExP - I suggest you phone the CC helpline. They will know if the missive is genuine, and you have immediate response.

andytug
18th Oct 2016, 10:49
Yup, contact the company direct and check is the best way. Email or mobile for the truly paranoid as land lines can and have been intercepted by crooks pretending convincingly to be the provider in question.

belfrybat
18th Oct 2016, 11:35
Do not call an numbers mentioned in the letter. Look them up on the provider's website or some online directory.

Expatrick
18th Oct 2016, 11:47
Thanks all. Yes we did initially try the number in the letter but realised our error & hung up!
That's why we emailed.

cattletruck
18th Oct 2016, 11:53
If you have a spare moment you could always take a leaf out of the good book Capetonian and just string them along at their own expense.

Promise them everything yet deliver nothing.

Sallyann1234
18th Oct 2016, 13:07
I had something not dissimilar from a financial institution, and ignored it as being spam or fishing.
My reasoning was that after several years as a client, they had quite enough of my personal data and wouldn't need any more.
I heard nothing more about it.

DType
18th Oct 2016, 13:24
One bank keeps chasing me to update my details for an a/c I closed years ago.
Another accused me of disclosing my on line security details for an a/c which has no on line facility.
But I did very nearly get done by an extremely convincing fraudulent website, and the bank rescued me, so swings and roundabouts!

Avtrician
18th Oct 2016, 13:41
I would say its a scam.
After 10m years, your bank knows who you are.

oldchina
18th Oct 2016, 14:36
"After 10m years, your bank knows who you are"

Yes but after 10m years the person who knew you is probably dead.

meadowrun
18th Oct 2016, 15:11
passport details plus one document from a separate list, ie copy of photo card licence, bank book, Govt. documents, etc


CC company has no right to any of these documents or their details.
Forward letter to police then forget all about it - as will the police.

crablab
18th Oct 2016, 15:34
CC company has no right to any of these documents or their details.
Forward letter to police then forget all about it - as will the police.
Yes they do. It's for fraud prevention and identity confirmation.

How do they know you are who you say you are with your steller credit rating?

jimtherev
18th Oct 2016, 15:47
There's a phone number on the back of the card. Look no further.

meadowrun
18th Oct 2016, 16:05
Yes they do. It's for fraud prevention and identity confirmation.


No, not after ten years of business. If there are any queries relating to possible fraud or ID confirmation, they can be sorted out by a visit to the issuing bank and a chat with your manager.


Otherwise, cancel CC and get a reputable one.

dsc810
18th Oct 2016, 16:08
Yes the financial companies do have a right to ask for this detail.
It was probable that your account was opened when ID checking requirements were rather less (if any were done at all!)
So as well as all new customers being required to be fully ID checked to the current standard such companies may ask existing customers to go through the process.
If at this point the company is unable to fully ID you to the current standard via electronic methods and asking the credit reference agencies etc then yes you may be asked to send in certified passport copies and originals of some recent financial statements to verify your ID and address.

I have found that some long term investments from dacades ago can be held and annual statement sent to me but when I want to do a transaction such as make a withdrawal then I'm required to submit certified ID.

HSBC and I think First Direct in the UK have been going though their existing customer based asking for this sort of detail from posts of the UK's MSE current account sub forum and the accompanying message from HSBC/first direct has been quite clear - provide or your account will be closed.

G-CPTN
18th Oct 2016, 16:11
Yes the financial companies do have a right to ask for this detail.
It was probable that your account was open when ID checking requirements were rather less (if any were done at all!)
So as well as all new customers being required to be fully ID checked to the current standard such companies may ask existing customers to go through the process.
If at this point the company is unable to fully ID you to the current standard via electronic methods and asking the credit reference agencies etc then yes you may be asked to send in certified passport copies and originals of some recent financial statements to verify your ID and address.

I have found that some long term investments from dacades ago can be held and annual statement sent to me but when I want to do a transaction such as make a withdrawal then I'm required to submit certified ID.
I would expect this to be done with a invitation to visit to a physical bank premises rather than electronically.

meadowrun
18th Oct 2016, 16:24
Yes the financial companies do have a right to ask for this detail


Interesting in what you think you Brits think you have to put up with - spoken as a Cc card(s) holder (platinum/gold) for 40 years and not been asked for any of this even once.

crablab
18th Oct 2016, 16:26
No, not after ten years of business. If there are any queries relating to possible fraud or ID confirmation, they can be sorted out by a visit to the issuing bank and a chat with your manager.


Otherwise, cancel CC and get a reputable one.
I have had this recently where a bank account that was opened a few years ago required ID verification. As dsc says, when the requirements were know doubt lesser.

I'm not sure on the method the bank wants the information by, the OP isn't specific but in my case it required a trip to my branch.

dsc810
18th Oct 2016, 16:33
It depends.
Some do allow the individual to visit the branch and have the ID checked there and then - this is assuming that the group is a bank with a large "high street" presence.
Others simply require certified copies to be sent to some central processing facility which checks all ID's with no branch option.
In the OP's case they state it is a UK CC provider being the subsidiary of a USA so I'd guess they will have no UK customers facing branches and sending in by post a certified copy will be the only way.
The instructions should detail how the copy is to be certified and who is allowed to certify. Mainly this will be financially authorised persons such a solicitors where they sign with their authorization number stated to enable the counter signer to be later checked if the serious fraud office come calling.

I find with me its a bit random
Sometime I can open a new account and pass the electronic checks all done in the background. Other times the online opening process stops and comes back with "we are unable to verify your ID - please send in certified copies......." before we can proceed.

the the UK bank branches are now mostly no more than sales outlets - the bank staff have no executive power and the bank "manager" of old is long been dispensed with.
Barclays and NatWest from my experience are moving to a virtually staff-less branch, customer's being told to use the various machine to get money, pay money in etc

meadowrun
18th Oct 2016, 16:46
And this is all why I minimize my electronic banking.
I refuse to even log my details into my laptop to access my bank account or my CC accounts. I use Debit but not RF ID or apps for any transfers.
Financial institutions and Ebay and PayPal and all the like have proven, so far, to be not trustworthy with regards to any but the minimal information required. I am not clouding or floating or embedding any un-necessary(in my opinion) electronic trackers to their control and protection. They still have a long way to go. The more info you put anywhere on-line, the more suscepible you are to being hacked or scammed.

dsc810
18th Oct 2016, 16:49
The recent tightning in the UK on ID is a result of USA actions - particularly applicable to the way HSBC got fines from the USA Dept of Justice for past wrongdoings.
These financial groups are simply terrrified about being fined again by the USA and possibly being excluded from USA $ markets which would bankrupt them.

So in short the UK banks etc are going to comply and do whatever it takes to keep the USA off their backs. You can complain about all this to the bank, to your MP, to whomever you want and it will make no difference, if you do not supply the documents requested your accounts will be closed.

It's not just banks - say I wanted the post to be re-directed from a dead relative's address to mine as the executor of the estate (this is a real example)
I fill in the form for the UK post office along with the death cert and their address document and I also have to provide full paper ID for myself to the current standard and yes that is certified passport copy and and original financial document like a bank statement showing my address.
I wanted to renew my ticket with the UK's national archives/public record office. Same thing - full ID to be provided. So I took along my old ticket, my passport and a recent paper bank statement as they stated I needed to.
Oh finally: only true paper originals are acceptable for this address part of the ID - no internet/online bank statement printed off on your Epson's etc are acceptable.

meadowrun
18th Oct 2016, 16:55
Funny that, Canadian banks are not so scared of the USofA.


Everyone know what HSBC stands for?

obgraham
18th Oct 2016, 16:55
There's no way in Hades I would provide the info OP mentions. If a company wants that much, so long, I'll do business elsewhere.
They are entitled to ask. I'm not obligated to respond.

Finally, why is this a chance to knock USA? This is taking place in Europe -- not a soul here in US would comply with those requests.

crablab
18th Oct 2016, 16:56
Everyone know what HSBC stands for?

Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corp.

Expatrick
18th Oct 2016, 17:08
Thank you all for your very informative answers,very much appreciated.

ExXB
18th Oct 2016, 18:04
obgraham,

Search for FATCA. You would be surprised what your government is requiring US citizens, living abroad, to do. And this does have a distressing effect on all bank customers, regardless of their nationality or place of residence. It used to be easy to have a bank account in another country, not anymore.

And no, this is not knocking the USA.

Gertrude the Wombat
18th Oct 2016, 18:28
Interesting in what you think you Brits think you have to put up with
I don't think money laundering regulations are unique to Britain.

ExXB
18th Oct 2016, 20:10
Everyone know what HSBC stands for?

HSBC Hobe Sound Bible College (Florida)
HSBC House Small Business Committee (US House of Representatives)
HSBC Humane Society of Broward County (Florida)
HSBC Humane Society of Bay County (Bay County, Michigan)
HSBC Hot Sauce Blue Cheese (humor, Buffalo, NY)

The last one intrigues me!

onetrack
19th Oct 2016, 14:07
HSBC - The Highly Suspect Banking Company! Known worldwide for its greed, its tax evasion, its involvement in money laundering, for its culture of disobediance towards banking laws and regulations, and for ripping off its clients.

This is the bank, who when I received a refund to my HSBC CC, that put the account into credit, actually charged me a $25 "cash advance fee" - just to withdraw my own money!!

Needless to say, I promptly closed my account with them, and I have no intention of ever dealing again, with this bunch of dishonest scammers and corporate thugs.

HSBC - the bank for crims (https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/13/hsbc-errors-lack-of-oversight-reputation-worlds-best-run-bank)

Re the OP's question - a letter makes it less likely that it is a scam, but making contact via the banks official CC helpline to verify the request is crucial. As a previous poster noted, the banks phone numbers are always on the credit card.

tarantonight
19th Oct 2016, 19:59
As soon as you get anything like this, put any telephone numbers and or addresses into a Google search.

You will have your answer in seconds - if a scam, you are unlikely to be the first!

TN.

PPRuNe Dispatcher
18th Nov 2016, 21:14
Another scam going around at the moment is a phone call from your "bank/credit card company" asking you to verify that you have just paid £loads to a company in Hong Kong/China/Nigeria/etc.

To cancel the transaction, they just need proof of who you you are and the card that was used... including the CCV2 (three digit number on the back).

Random numbers seem to be acceptable to them.

PPD

Brian Abraham
19th Nov 2016, 04:58
You can't trust anybody these days. Perhaps it was coincidence, perhaps not, I have no idea, but I sent an online order to Aircraft Reports - Aircraft Helicopter Engines Propellers Aviation Manuals Blueprints Documets Profile Publications on DVD (http://www.aircraft-manuals.com/) with card details, and a few days later I got a call from the federal fraud squad.

Someone had registered with Uber in Hong Kong with my card details but no financial transaction. Was told it was what the crims do to initially check that the card is good to go. I asked when did this happen? Two hours ago I was told, and we've cancelled your card. Talk about service on the national level.

Thing is, the on line book retailer made no debit, and nor did I get the book. Looking just now I see the retailers email is a gmail address. Suspicious? Don't touch them with a barge pole would be my personal recommendation.

Allan Lupton
19th Nov 2016, 08:41
Further to Brian's tale, I have one credit card that I keep for online purchasing and another for daily use. That way if I have to cancel the "online" card as the result of scam/dodgy practice it doesn't affect normal living.

Expatrick
19th Nov 2016, 09:56
So having seen the advice on here we ignored the letter and after a month have heard no more, thanks again everybody who responded.

Tankertrashnav
19th Nov 2016, 10:56
Honkers and Shankers when I was in the Colony (as it then was).

Pretty much unknown in GB outside the financial world, long before it took over the Midland Bank.

Yesterday I received 2,400 emails from 2,400 different girls who live next door to me offering me sex!
FF

I live in the country several miles from the nearest town. Unless some of my farmer neighbours have got young female lodgers I haven't heard about, I suspect the ones I hear from "1.9 miles from your location" are scams as well!

core_dump
19th Nov 2016, 11:36
not a soul here in US would comply with those requests.

Since all they asked for was a photo ID and a second document (very common), I trust your issue with this is that it was after the fact? Of course I'm ignoring the fact that this was likely a scammer in this case, but...

Have you ever had an American Express card and heard of the dreaded Financial Reviews? Amex will gladly hand you a card when you apply, if you meet their credit criteria. But then years later when you least expect it, they come after you for tax returns! And no, you don't get to send them yourself -- they go right to the IRS and get them directly after you sign your life away.

Sure, I have the right to decline and lose my credit card(s) as a result. But Amex is paying me several $hundred a month in cash back so I'd rather keep my cards. But unfortunately I'd have no choice but to refuse their request because I made a "mistake" when filling out my income on the original application. :O

Expatrick
4th Mar 2017, 20:55
It now appears, 5 months on, that this enquiry was genuine. We know this only because my Wife received an email 6 days ago advising that the account had been suspended due to the lack of response to the original letter. The email acknowledged that my Wife's account is long standing & has always been operated correctly. After a confirmatory phone call my Wife supplied the information requested (& made the usual monthly payment in the interim), however as I write this the account still remains suspended.

radeng
5th Mar 2017, 14:09
I agree with onetrack. In 1975, I banked with the Midland in Dartford. My employer banked with the Midland in Bracknell. They gave me a payslip on the 28th of the month - or if that was a Saturday, Sunday or bank Holiday, the preceding Friday. My account was NEVER credited before the 6th of the following month, and on one occasion they bounced a cheque on the 9th that would have put me 63p overdrawn, and credited my salary on the 10th. On complaining, I was told they could take as long as they liked on intra-branch transfers and if I didn't like it, to go elsewhere!

NatWest are hopeless - one Society spent 18 months trying to get the cheque signatories changed, and in the end they changed banks instead. As they tens of thousand of pounds going into (and out of!) their accounts, you might have thought the bank would be more helpful...

onetrack
6th Mar 2017, 01:53
It now appears, 5 months on, that this enquiry was genuineWell, I did say in post #30, that a letter would make it less likely that it was a scam, and a simple call to the banks CC helpline would verify the authenticity of the letter.
I find most banking institutions have quite satisfactory helpline assistance, and most have minimal wait times to access the helpdesk person.

wiggy
6th Mar 2017, 08:03
Expatrick

Afraid we are going through he same nonsense at the moment because we have an account still active in the UK.

My other half has had to have a copy of her pasport certified by the UK embassy, we've got to get a copy of a utility bill translated at our own expense- supposedly by the utility provider itself ( when we told customer service agent in the UK that wasn't possible since the utility company is err, a utility company not a translation service she got quite P off - out of interest do UK utility companies do free translations of bills into any foreign language?), plus there's various bits of other nause.

All supposedly in our best interests but I think it is a case of a certain bank being well and truely caught out and now tightning up...but probably not on the high rollers....

Expatrick
6th Mar 2017, 09:55
Expatrick

Afraid we are going through he same nonsense at the moment because we have an account still active in the UK.

My other half has had to have a copy of her pasport certified by the UK embassy, we've got to get a copy of a utility bill translated at our own expense- supposedly by the utility provider itself ( when we told customer service agent in the UK that wasn't possible since the utility company is err, a utility company not a translation service she got quite P off - out of interest do UK utility companies do free translationsof bills?), plus there's various bits of other nause.

All supposedly in our best interests but I think it is a case of a certain bank being well and truely caught out and now tightning up...but probably not on the high rollers....

Oh dear, that's not good. As presumably the Utility bill is for proof of address why should they demand a translation? In another circumstance I photo'd a Hungarian bill (for my foreign exchange people) and that was acceptable. Ridiculous.

wiggy
6th Mar 2017, 10:49
I wish you luck, this has been a major PITA for us for several weeks now.

We think it all got triggered when we started paying some pension income into the UK account and started transferred some of it ( three or low four figure values) as required into Euros for transfer to our French Bank account.....HSBC ( yes, I know) got twitched and it all started....If I was the likes of Arron Banks moving millions a day I could understand it but the income HSBC are seeing is from a Government (MOD) source FFS.

e.g.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/856868-hsbc-and-uk-hmrc-hsbc-safeguard/

Expatrick
6th Mar 2017, 10:56
I wish you luck, this has been a major PITA for us for several weeks now. We think it all started when we started paying some pension income into the account and HSBC ( yes, i know) got twitched....If I was the likes of Arron Banks moving millions a day I could understand it but the income HSBC are seeing is from a Government (MOD) source FFS.

e.g.

HSBC and UK HMRC - HSBC Safeguard. - Jobs, economy, banking, business, investments - Thailand Forum (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/856868-hsbc-and-uk-hmrc-hsbc-safeguard/)

Thanks, you too! I think part of the problem is the attitude of some institutions to that strange breed "the expat". Hungary or Hungerford,Toulouse or Trowbridge, what difference does it make? HMRC are definitely guilty of this one!

ExSp33db1rd
8th Mar 2017, 03:17
Trying to open a new account with a New Zealand domestic bank ( none of this Foreign Laundering nonsense ) Online with a NZ bank, I was asked to Fax. ( yes, fax - remember them ?) a copy of my passport, then told that the fax copy of my photograph was not good enough - could they not see that whisker I missed when shaving ? - and please post a hard copy.

WTF ? All my dealings will be Online, no handy local branches, so how will they compare the photograph with the person not standing before them ?

World's Gone Mad.