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EGLD
17th Oct 2016, 18:50
A real good news story for a change; Britain opens it's arms to desperate unaccompanied minors

Makes me proud to be British :ok:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/16/uk-to-take-small-group-of-children-from-calais-refugee-camp

http://i.imgur.com/Gd7RIxp.jpg

SpringHeeledJack
17th Oct 2016, 19:30
Those furriner children must be on special supplements, because they are very similar in size and maturity to homegrown twenty-something year olds…..

Fareastdriver
17th Oct 2016, 19:32
Of course every one of them has now a legal right to import about fourteen relatives under EU law.

EGLD
17th Oct 2016, 19:35
Of course every one of them has now a legal right to import about fourteen relatives under EU law.

Most of them have family already here

Which doesn't make any sense at all, so I can only assume it's right wing tabloid lies to smear them

Jack D
17th Oct 2016, 19:42
I was expecting ..well.. children ?
Oh well they've arrived safely , now one can only hope everything works out for them , but where are those , perhaps younger , children we keep hearing about ?

EGLD
17th Oct 2016, 20:00
Oh well they've arrived safely

Well said - the mutton vindaloo on the cross channel ferry can be lethal, thank heavens they made it xx

478152
17th Oct 2016, 21:05
Well said - the mutton vindaloo on the cross channel ferry can be lethal, thank heavens they made it xx

Having to eat that weekly, I just hope my stomach is as strong as theirs!

papajuliet
17th Oct 2016, 21:20
The word "children" is being deliberately used to raise the emotion of pity. These do not look like children. They are the kind of youths that anyone with any sense avoids if seen in the street. We're importing more trouble - utter madness.

KenV
17th Oct 2016, 21:20
May I ask why these refugee children appear to be exclusively male?

papajuliet
17th Oct 2016, 21:23
The word "children" is being deliberately used to make people feel pity. These are not children. They are youths - the kind which anyone, with any sense, avoids if seen on the street. We are importing more trouble - utter madness.

EGLD
17th Oct 2016, 22:25
May I ask why these refugee children appear to be exclusively male?

It's a point made elsewhere and often, but to think of how our grandfathers and great grandfathers gave their lives in their teens and 20's to protect our country and their wives and children back home......well, it seems our new arrivals are the rats who scurried away rather than stand and fight

The BBC seems uncharacteristically shy when it comes to showing footage of all these vulnerable children arriving today.....

sitigeltfel
17th Oct 2016, 23:21
You want vulnerable children?

Rotherham child abuse charges: Eight guilty - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-37682136)

SOPS
18th Oct 2016, 00:09
Children? You are kidding me.

419
18th Oct 2016, 00:28
So what are the chances that the authorities in the areas that these "children" end up living in will ensure that they are treated like children and not able to do the following until old enough:
Buying alcohol,
Buying tobacco products,
Driving a car or motorbike,
and ensuring that they attend school until legally old enough to leave.

newfieboy
18th Oct 2016, 02:14
Jeez,
Pleased I bailed the UK, if these 'children' are anything to go by, hate to see you grown ups...bloody giants....
Very sad my old motherland has come to this. It will only end in tears. I note they all 'hoodies' wearing designer running shoes, no doubt all got the latest iPhones etc. my poor old father will be spinning in his grave, what was the point that generation fought for their lives for good ole Blighty. very sad indeed.

742-xx
18th Oct 2016, 03:08
Mind-blowing stupidity. These aren't children, clearly.
Wake up !

chevvron
18th Oct 2016, 04:38
Children? You are kidding me.
All supposed to be 'under 18'.
Yeah sure; believe that and you'll believe Corbyn too.

recceguy
18th Oct 2016, 05:58
Guys, those people are the ones who have been fighting the French police riots with stones, blocking the highway to Calais, assaulting the truck drivers, escaping their countries when they should have been fighting on one side or the other... and now suddenly as a whole they have become gentle and polite ?
How many throats have they been cutting at home before leaving ? so many nice memories to import in your country... Poor vulnerable children having lost their passports but not their iPhone ....
Have you noticed the way so many "syrians" have afghans or pakistanese accent ?

Beware my dear neighbours North of the Channel, the wave is coming. You are paving the way for dozens of Rotherham in the future

Peter-RB
18th Oct 2016, 07:25
Any one classed as a Child in my opinion is 12 and UNDER....it was reported by the Good Old BBC that a child refugee interviewed by some twittering song bird had paid £5700 to people smugglers to get from Afghanistan to the Jungle in Calais

When are these bleeding hearts going to wake up, I think only possibly Russian Oligarch kids could walk round with that sort of Folding money at the said age of that kid who it turns out is the son of a Rebel Commander of a brigade of Cut-throats....Himself an admitted Illegal entrant to the UK,... these doom mongers and wailer's in chief including the thread starter really do have their heads stuck firmly up their own backsides.

We are importing Rapists of the future, Britain needs to stop being the Dustbin of Bleeding Hearts..!

LTNman
18th Oct 2016, 07:37
I wouldn't let any of them in regardless of age.

B Fraser
18th Oct 2016, 08:48
What I don't understand is what is wrong with France ? Is it the food ? Is it the weather ? Is it the short working week and plenty of holidays ? Is it the protective employment laws ?


Why do they want to give all of that up and come here ?

Effluent Man
18th Oct 2016, 08:53
It's a hard hearted attitude to deny entry to refugees, and there are without doubt some genuine cases. It is imperative though that we maintain strict criteria regarding who is admitted. Those kids pictured are most likely mid teens and, given the likelihood that they are going to end up at best washing cars for minimum wage they are going to become alienated from their host society.

It's then a short step to a life of crime. We are importing an awful lot of potential trouble.

Octopussy2
18th Oct 2016, 09:45
The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (which has been signed by every country in the world bar two) defines "child" as someone who is under the age of 18.

So what may appear to us to be a strapping teenager is, under international law, still a child. And that must be right. Surely anyone who has a 15-year-old child isn't about to argue that s/he is an adult who should be left to fend for him or herself.

Fareastdriver
18th Oct 2016, 10:15
It is imperative though that we maintain strict criteria regarding who is admitted

I wonder how much some of them paid for the details of their 'relatives' in the UK.

Ancient Mariner
18th Oct 2016, 10:16
I left home at 14 for a cadet ship, at 15 I was galley slave/fireman/fisherman, in that order, on an old steam trawler.
The day I turned 16 I said goodbye Norway for Curacao where I joined a chemical carrier as a greaser.
Never did me no harm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, different times and all that, but where these guys come from it is still not 1968.
By the way, is that picture really those boys allowed to enter the UK, or just a random picture?
Per

Octopussy2
18th Oct 2016, 10:27
AM I'm sure it didn't do you any harm and I respect your experience. My impression from "knowing" you for a number of years is that you have led a colourful and successful life.

But as you say, these are different times and I think those children (I accept there's a legitimate point about whether they are the age they claim to be, but that's a separate point) who are entitled to come here are entitled to a shot at some more schooling (note the careful choice of words, because I agree "education" comes in all different ways!) before they are 18.

Super VC-10
18th Oct 2016, 10:28
These aren't refugees but economic migrants and latent jihadists,

For genuine refugees, the system should be that they claim asylum at the embassy of the country they wish to go, in their own country. Their case for asylum is fully assessed and their stories checked out. Those given asylum are then provided with transport by the country granting asylum. Those refused asylum are thus not in the country they wish to claim asylum in illegally, causing a drain on that country's resources. Those denied asylum are also prohibited from claiming asylum again for ten years.

Andy_S
18th Oct 2016, 11:23
These aren't refugees but economic migrants and latent jihadists

That’s a bit uncalled for, as is calling them rapists.

I’m more concerned about the deception. We had been led to believe we were letting in ‘vulnerable’ children. Am I the only person who expected to see small, frightened, pre-teens? What we actually seem to have received are fit, healthy, well fed youths in their mid to late teens. Children? Maybe, in legal terms. But vulnerable? Don’t make me laugh. Life appears to have treated them pretty well.

Smeagol
18th Oct 2016, 11:27
Super VC-10

Whilst I agree in principle with your initial statement, "These aren't refugees but economic migrants and latent jihadists", and like you, think that we need to be extremely careful who we let enter this country. (At least a damn site more careful than we have been for the last umpteen years.)

However, your subsequent paragraph detailing requirements for the granting of asylum might be quite difficult to implement (was that your intention?) and not a little dangerous for asylum seekers truly in need of such protection from their own state. I suspect that the process would result in many such persons 'disappearing' very shortly after initiating the process with our local embassy!

Expatrick
18th Oct 2016, 12:00
I hope their behaviour in the UK is better than witnessed while the migrants transited Hungary.

SOPS
18th Oct 2016, 12:09
I'm lost. Where are the children? All I see are young male adults.

SilsoeSid
18th Oct 2016, 12:10
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/13/11/39595B8C00000578-3836058-image-a-11_1476355892558.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/13/12/395921FD00000578-3836058-image-a-12_1476356496802.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/17/13/39755B2C00000578-3843900-image-a-27_1476708546628.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/17/13/397553B800000578-3843900-image-a-10_1476707750087.jpg

Perhaps some of these big strapping lads are the reason Lily Allen said, "We have to take responsibility" Lily Allen says she would take in an unaccompanied child after Calais camp visit, "a hundred per cent, a hundred per cent, who wouldn't?"

https://twitter.com/victorialive/status/786142382681038848

and more;
uV7aLzMjbz4


I don't think most of us have a problem with children coming to the UK, however these 'children' would have to pay full fair on the train, at the cinema and look as though they would manage a few children's happy meals in one sitting :hmm:

NorthernChappie
18th Oct 2016, 13:47
Of the many politicians and luvvies that have said they would house a refugee, how many have done so?


I see that according to the Home Office, the reason that they children look older than they are is that "war has toughened them up". Presumably war also hastens the onset of facial hair.

fitliker
18th Oct 2016, 15:00
They will fit right in some parts of the UK .
They will not even have to learn English .

meadowrun
18th Oct 2016, 15:05
Not quite the best selection of candidates perhaps for the first entries. A batch of 12-14 year olds might have gone down with the public better, and some girls in the mix.
Public being asked to take a lot on faith. Just how well were these children vetted?
I do hope very well and fingerprints and DNA reference samples taken from all involved.

G-CPTN
18th Oct 2016, 16:08
Not quite the best selection of candidates perhaps for the first entries. A batch of 12-14 year olds might have gone down with the public better, and some girls in the mix.
Public being asked to take a lot on faith. Just how well were these children vetted?
I do hope very well and fingerprints and DNA reference samples taken from all involved.
I suspect that younger children would have needed school places (and associated foster carers) whereas these young adults can be released within a community with minimum support from the local authorities.

Smeagol
18th Oct 2016, 16:17
G-CPTN
You said:

"I suspect that younger children would have needed school places (and associated foster carers) whereas these young adults can be released within a community with minimum support from the local authorities."

But these 'young adults' are still of school age so require school places and support?

I suspect that many (most?) will not see the inside of any educational establishment and will become part of our future problem!

meadowrun
18th Oct 2016, 16:19
Those older "children" will have large gaps in their education being from "war ravaged countries" and not suitable, as is, for jobs other than car washing etc. Would love to see a report on the educational achievements of the two batches that have arrived. I suspect some serious catch-up, numbering in years, would be required to make them employable, not to mention English language lessons.


Dental checks to prove age parameters are not being done due to being intrusive.
Aid workers are reporting that actual children's places are being taken by adults who are lying and the vetting system is at best "chaotic".

vctenderness
18th Oct 2016, 17:00
I bet they won't find dental work 'intrusive' when they start filling their boots on the NHS!

I despair at this country we need to start showing our displeasure with the 'ruling elite' and their disregard of the British people's wishes.

EGLD
18th Oct 2016, 18:10
Even if we were believe the frankly laughable suggestion that these men are children, where on earth are the women?

I know this point has already been made, but the question remains...where are they?

Intrestingly, the BBC chose to illustrate one of their stories about these unaccompanied minors arriving in the UK with a pic of two kids barely 6 years old :=

KelvinD
18th Oct 2016, 18:18
Has anyone thought that these refugees may have been in the Jungle for a couple of years? As such, they would have been kids with nothing at home and family perhaps in the UK. So, because they were stuck there for a year or more, we should then just write them off?
This topic has turned into possibly the most racist and bigoted I have read in many a year.

good spark
18th Oct 2016, 18:22
hang on a mo here, who where the clever ones who decided it would be jolly nice to let these poor children into this country i think we should be asking questions, like wtf are you on?



gs

wiggy
18th Oct 2016, 18:29
Children? You are kidding me.

Any one classed as a Child in my opinion is 12 and UNDER

where on earth are the women?

I know yet again I'm going to offer an unpopular POV but this in part at least goes to show what can be done with a bit of editing/selective use of photos by the media.

I can't speak for the individuals shown in the OP, I'd certainly agree they don't look like "kids" but FWIW at least some of those shown being bused up to the UK on European TV coverage of this are most definitely children..(boys and girls, some probably aged 10-12 or less).

sycamore
18th Oct 2016, 18:37
I would like to think that the vetting they have gone though includes `swiping` their mobiles for all their contacts as well as DNA and fingerprinting.

EGLD
18th Oct 2016, 19:31
Has anyone thought that these refugees may have been in the Jungle for a couple of years? As such, they would have been kids with nothing at home and family perhaps in the UK. So, because they were stuck there for a year or more, we should then just write them off?
This topic has turned into possibly the most racist and bigoted I have read in many a year.

yes yes we're all "ists" and "phobics"

(they're claiming to be children now, not 2 years ago btw)

btw, this young lad is sitting next to your granddaughter in Maths tomorrow morning :D

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/18/18/397BDFAE00000578-3847114-Volunteers_in_the_Jungle_camp_claim_that_the_child_migrants_ arri-a-6_1476811674608.jpg

at least some of those shown being bused up to the UK on European TV coverage of this are most definitely children..(boys and girls, some probably aged 10-12 or less).

link please

G-CPTN
18th Oct 2016, 22:43
It would be interesting to deprive these children of the facility to shave and then see how they appeared.

seanbean
19th Oct 2016, 00:27
More fodder for thought on the matter:

Two-thirds of child refugees screened by officials found to be adults, Home Office figures show (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/18/two-thirds-of-child-refugees-entering-uk-found-to-be-adults-figu/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

G-CPTN
19th Oct 2016, 03:02
Officials yesterday admitted the arrivals are being given asylum without any proper medical checks on their age because they are considered “intrusive”.
The Home Office said they are given the “benefit of the doubt” if their age is in question.

EGLD
19th Oct 2016, 07:37
Godfrey Elfwick
‏@GodfreyElfwick
What the UK needs, is more millionaire celebrities telling middle to low income earners how they should feel about immigration.

Trossie
19th Oct 2016, 08:23
... without any proper medical checks on their age because they are considered “intrusive”There are quite a few countries in the world that require medical checks for immigration purposes. How could medical checks be considered 'intrusive' unless someone has something to hide?

Peter-RB
19th Oct 2016, 10:03
Memo to the "Do Gooders" and Luvvies from the make believe world of Art +Pop

Where do we find your address, so we can deliver these children to your house..!!:ok:

WTF is happening to that basic essential Common Sense, and use your eyes!:eek:

Curious Pax
19th Oct 2016, 10:14
It would be interesting to deprive these children of the facility to shave and then see how they appeared.

My son has a number of friends of Asian origin. Some of them have been shaving since they were 11, and by 14 were able to grow an impressive set of whiskers if they chose to (they didn't). The home office have stated that this batch were 14-17, and looking at them they almost all look plausibly that age to me. Why they didn't take the youngest ones first is a surprise unless they were hoping for reactions similar to those in this thread so they had the excuse to backtrack.

Effluent Man
19th Oct 2016, 10:35
Quite apart from any issue of race etc, why are we taking in more people when the country's infrastructure is already stretched? Yesterday a friend, 59 years old, collapsed and died of a heart condition that was relatively easily fixed.

In July, and again last month, his operation was cancelled due to the pressure on the hospital at the scheduled time. This is going to happen more and more as the effects of net immigration are felt on the NHS.

G-CPTN
19th Oct 2016, 10:35
Where were the anxious relatives waiting to welcome their children?

Curious Pax
19th Oct 2016, 10:45
Here: Afghan teen reunited with uncle (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/18/afghan-teen-rescued-calais-reunited-uncle-london-haris-ghazi)

Not sure why I bothered posting a link to the Guardian as it will be red rag to a bull, but it does give the story of one of the refugees for those who choose to take it at face value.

Evanelpus
19th Oct 2016, 11:21
I'm old enough to remember Enoch Powell's (in) famous speech all those years ago.

You reap what you sow in life and the UK is finding out the hard way what their lily livered pc-ness has thrown at them.

Chickens, home and roost comes to mind.

keyboard flier
19th Oct 2016, 11:59
Are there no girls, because they are not unaccompanied due to have been married to an elderly 'uncle' by the age of 10?

oldchina
19th Oct 2016, 12:04
"... his operation was cancelled due to the pressure on the hospital at the scheduled time. This is going to happen more and more as the effects of net immigration are felt on the NHS"

Strange world. These people are desperate to get out of France, where hospital waiting lists are unheard of.

sitigeltfel
19th Oct 2016, 12:29
"... his operation was cancelled due to the pressure on the hospital at the scheduled time. This is going to happen more and more as the effects of net immigration are felt on the NHS"

Strange world. These people are desperate to get out of France, where hospital waiting lists are unheard of.

You have to be legally resident to benefit from the French healthcare system, and pay insurance.

Andy_S
19th Oct 2016, 12:33
Are there no girls, because they are not unaccompanied due to have been married to an elderly 'uncle' by the age of 10?

The modus operandi of a lot of migrants, sorry – refugees, is to send one family member to their preferred destination. Having completed the journey, said family member then begins to facilitate the passage of other family members. The person selected to make the initial journey is the one who is considered to have the best chance of successfully making it to the final destination – generally a young, healthy male. That’s why you don’t see girls. They, and other family, will undoubtedly follow in due course.

oldchina
19th Oct 2016, 12:50
If anyone finds the "desperate" 16 - 17 year old females looking for a home please put me down for a pair

sitigeltfel
19th Oct 2016, 13:25
If anyone finds the "desperate" 16 - 17 year old females looking for a home please put me down for a pair

Here you are.........Home Office definition of age applies ;)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ut2VzQGtOis/hqdefault.jpg

Evanelpus
19th Oct 2016, 13:38
Phooarhhh, not arf mate!

Ali Qadoo
19th Oct 2016, 14:37
Seen on a website elsewhere:

Please give generously to help these poor refugees by making a donation to the Shave the Children Fund.

Fair made I chuckle, that did.

KelvinD
19th Oct 2016, 16:02
A fine photo there at msg #46. In fact a fine photo of an interpreter travelling with the party!

MReyn24050
19th Oct 2016, 16:20
Once more the British Public are being treated like fools. We were told there were many very young unaccompanied children in the Calais Camp needing bringing to the UK. Yet all we see are youths many well over the age of 16. Why are the very young children not being processed first? Do they really
exist.

Metro man
19th Oct 2016, 16:49
I would be interesting to have a TV series made which revisits them in 10 years time and shows well they have integrated into western society. I'm sure they will all be gainfully employed, law abiding tax payers who uphold British values.

No doubt a significant economic benefit will have accrued through bringing them in and figures provided to prove it.

All this talk about a drain on social security, housing and the NHS would be proved wrong as none of them would be claiming benefits and living in a free council house with a wife and six children.

EGLD
19th Oct 2016, 18:55
A fine photo there at msg #46. In fact a fine photo of an interpreter travelling with the party!

Another interpreter?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/19/10/39831A1700000578-3850840-A_third_group_of_child_refugees_are_on_their_way_to_Britain_ afte-m-6_1476869714708.jpg

Fair play : "they're interpreters" certainly beats "war has aged them" :}

MG23
19th Oct 2016, 19:11
Come on, they're clearly trans-children. If they identify as eight-year-olds, who are we to deny them that right?

RedhillPhil
20th Oct 2016, 01:13
Please remember the poor and unfortunate amongst us.

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Oct 2016, 04:19
Wonder if that daft cow Lily Allen will be taking one of these 'children' in.

Krystal n chips
20th Oct 2016, 04:50
The MP in question is clearly not alone on here...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2016/oct/19/steve-bell-on-david-davies-and-child-refugees-cartoon

EGLD
20th Oct 2016, 06:27
"I have no counter argument so I'll just blanket claim that everyone I disagree with is stupid"

Krystal n chips
20th Oct 2016, 06:43
" I have no counter argument so I'll just blanket claim that everyone I disagree with is stupid "

Sensitive little soul aren't you.....no blanket claim at all, merely a satirical and definitive depiction.

That said, I can understand the mass enthusiasm for being disparaging about people arriving in the UK, after enduring conditions that many contributors conveniently ignore, and hence the outrage when the equivalent of such sentiments is reciprocated.

sitigeltfel
20th Oct 2016, 07:21
There is a new charity where you can donate toiletries for those kiddies.
It is called "Shave the Children".

ORAC
20th Oct 2016, 09:15
Your politics are showing KnC, Labour MPs are also concerned.

Jack Straw backs checks to verify age of Calais refugee children (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/jack-straw-backs-unethical-dental-checks-to-verify-age-of-calais/)

skydiver69
20th Oct 2016, 09:22
I can't understand what the fuss is regarding age checks. I presume we do health screenings to check for illnesses like TB and we try to check stories about torture and abuse as well as family ties, all of which can be quite intrusive, so why be concerned about dental or bone density checks to estimate age? Social services and Drs also do those sort of checks on unaccompanied migrants who are in care in the UK so again what is the problem with doing it with these juveniles before arrival?

Sallyann1234
20th Oct 2016, 09:29
Trying to be serious for a moment, I am wondering what happens when these allegedly 16 year olds, speaking little or no English, are placed into a school class of children being prepared for their GCSE exams.

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Oct 2016, 09:41
That said, I can understand the mass enthusiasm for being disparaging about people arriving in the UK, after enduring conditions that many contributors conveniently ignore, and hence the outrage when the equivalent of such sentiments is reciprocated.

Strange how after years of apparently living in filth and squalor these fit healthy well nourished looking you men in their modern trendy clothing carrying mobile phones finally arrive here in the UK.

Even stranger is the fact there were no young children or babies or even any girls of any age, you might not want to acknowledge the odour of rat Komrad but others do.

Krystal n chips
20th Oct 2016, 09:59
ORAC,

My politics haven't changed...and are unlikely to...:cool:

Skydiver raises some valid points and clearly there are some issues which need more clarity to inform the public as to why the stance is being taken.

Interesting point Sallyann.....but, to be fair and realistic, do you actually see these new arrivals suddenly being integrated into education at the level you suggest ?.....surely, they will have to enter at a level which is appropriate to their current ability and be developed from there....and it's also notable how articulate many already are in English.

Hopefully, ever the optimist, we could then negate the ever so predictable antagonism and vituperation from those bastions of xenophobic prejudices, right wing "Middle England"

For SFFP, I would suggest a nasal spray would be in useful. Possibly you have difficulty selecting C4 on the remote, given the extensive coverage given to the camps, and population demographic, in Calais about which the channel has been broadcasting.

Feel free to read this, and associated articles, at your extensive leisure.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/19/home-office-expected-to-speed-up-rescue-of-migrant-children-from-calais

wiggy
20th Oct 2016, 10:15
Even stranger is the fact there were no young children or babies or even any girls of any age, you might not want to acknowledge the odour of rat Komrad but others do.

Minor point of order in the scheme of things...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/18/teenage-girl-arrives-uk-calais-crisis-eritrea-children-camp

Trossie
20th Oct 2016, 10:17
I'm just puzzled about why so many people are trying escape from France, especially when it must be quite a nice place as so many Brits chose to go there on holiday? No-one has answered that one yet.

A thought: what would happen to any child here who jumped in the back of a lorry and tried to get into France without a passport?

wiggy
20th Oct 2016, 10:59
I'm just puzzled about why so many people are trying escape from France, especially when it must be quite a nice place as so many Brits chose to go there on holiday? No-one has answered that one yet.

Yes they have, but they've either been ignored or their reply has been lost in the noise......so I for one will try again.

1. Language skills e.g some of the Calais youngsters interviewed on French TV spoke no French but did speak half decent English.....
2. In some cases family links (relatives already in the UK).
3. It seems the French make it somewhat difficult to claim asylum..it can be done but you generally won't get helped out by state paid interpreters, legal advisors etc.
4. The French social security/benefits system is not a soft touch....if you haven't contributed in some way shape or form your entitlements to benefits are very limited.
5. If you want to work it's very difficult to pick up casual work/short term employment, even more so if you don't having some form of accreditation that would have been gained by going through the French education system ( e.g even to be employed in many seemingly easy peesy manual jobs you may require a formal qualification/ certificate that can only be gained by attending a Lycee pro)


Hope that helps.

MReyn24050
20th Oct 2016, 11:39
Yes they have, but they've either been ignored or their reply has been lost in the noise......so I for one will try again.

1. Language skills e.g some of the Calais youngsters interviewed on French TV spoke no French but did speak half decent English.....
2. In some cases family links (relatives already in the UK).
3. It seems the French make it somewhat difficult to claim asylum..it can be done but you generally won't get helped out by state paid interpreters, legal advisors etc.
4. The French social security/benefits system is not a soft touch....if you haven't contributed in some way shape or form your entitlements to benefits are very limited.
5. If you don't want to work it's still very difficult to "pick up" casual work/short term work, even more so if you don't having some form of accreditation that would have been gained by going through the French education system ( e.g many manual hobs require a qualification that would require attendance at a Lycee pro)


Hope that helps.
What your basically saying Wiggy is that the French are not a soft touch as the UK are.

wiggy
20th Oct 2016, 12:12
What your basically saying Wiggy is that the French are not a soft touch as the UK are.


I wouldn't disagree with that comment - that will however provoke the standard comment(s) along the lines of "but the EU/Merkel/France/Brussels wouldn't let the UK harden up our rules when wanted to do the same "..and so the Hamster wheel will continue....

As an aside/ by way of illustration if you do deal with the French state system (e.g healthcare) you'll be pushed to find documents /advice on line offered in anything other than French ( and IMHO that's fair enough) though you do occasionally see English docs as an option in certain areas......Compare and contrast that with many NHS documents I've seen where you'll often find that there will attachments in umpteen different languages. Fundamentally the French approach appears much more "fit in or....." compared with the UK system.

(BTW for the avoidance of confusion I had to do a minor tidy up my item # 5 after your reply)

oldchina
20th Oct 2016, 14:51
Without checking I would think the French youth unemployment rate is double that of the UK. Many of them are French nationals of N African descent and constantly complain about discrimination. That they happen to bear a passing resemblance to the migrants in question would only make it tougher for the latter to get a job.

Evanelpus
20th Oct 2016, 15:13
3. It seems the French make it somewhat difficult to claim asylum..it can be done but you generally won't get helped out by state paid interpreters, legal advisors etc.

Quick, ask the French how they make it difficult and adopt that procedure here in the UK. Simples!:D

wiggy
20th Oct 2016, 16:51
The following is form an "ex-pat" source and is a bit out of date, but might provide a bit of background

https://www.thelocal.fr/20140324/france-asylum-refugee-rejects-four-out-of-five-asylum-seekers

G-CPTN
20th Oct 2016, 16:58
Are rejected asylum seekers free to move-on to other EU states?
If France decides to deport them, is there an identified country of origin if the migrants have no paperwork?

EGLD
20th Oct 2016, 17:42
A fine photo there at msg #46. In fact a fine photo of an interpreter travelling with the party!

Nope, lefty lies again


In a statement, a spokesperson for Tact said: "With regard to a recent tweet by Tact questioning the status of an individual male in a photograph at Calais, our information was from a credible source.

"However, if the male is indeed a migrant and not an interpreter, Tact regrets any concern caused. The tweet has now been withdrawn as we do not want to cause any further distress to the individual depicted."

419
20th Oct 2016, 18:47
A fine photo there at msg #46. In fact a fine photo of an interpreter travelling with the party!
Fraid not.
The Home Office have confirmed that it's actually a fine photo of a very fine looking 14 to 18 year old "child".
?Mature? migrant is not translator, says Home Office | News | The Times & The Sunday Times (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mature-migrant-is-not-translator-says-home-office-qmdm708pq)

Sallyann1234
20th Oct 2016, 19:03
Interesting point Sallyann.....but, to be fair and realistic, do you actually see these new arrivals suddenly being integrated into education at the level you suggest ?.....surely, they will have to enter at a level which is appropriate to their current ability and be developed from there....and it's also notable how articulate many already are in English.It would be difficult to put them into a much younger age class, for all sorts of reasons.
And even those with good English will not have studied the same curriculum, or indeed have been in school for a lengthy period.
Perhaps having been accepted here they will remember their true age?

419
20th Oct 2016, 19:10
Perhaps having been accepted here they will remember their true age?
I'm sure that once the knowledge of what legal restrictions are placed on minors in the UK sinks in, I totally agree that they will suddenly get over the trauma that made them forget how old they really are.

If/when this happens, I wonder how many of them will then be deported back to Calais!

Peter-RB
20th Oct 2016, 19:17
I suppose the constant harping on about "Right Wing Racists" will end just as soon as the so called "Children" start to be mixed with other proper or should I say legitimate aged children... here from the UK, who are legit and have recordable families who may even just be the children of the huggy Fluffies..

Then Leftist wingers who really think these are "children with a five O'Clock shadows" of up to 16 yr's......will then start to see the problems associated with Doncaster, Rotherham,Rochdale, Preston, Blackburn,Burnley and the like will start to rear its ugly head again, only this time all the possible dire warnings are being ignored......you really could not write this in a story book ...:mad:

Cazalet33
20th Oct 2016, 23:09
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/10/19/2010-MATT-GALLERY-WEB-P1-large_trans++qVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8.png

neila83
21st Oct 2016, 01:56
I'll just leave this here. Thank god I don't live in Britain any more, it's become a disgusting place, and the decline is palpable every time I visit. I thought pilots were intelligent folk, then I see threads like this or on climate change, and the IQ level is no higher than a Daily Mail comments thread. Incredible. You should thank your lucky stars every day you didn't have hte misfortunate to be born in Syria.

https://scontent.feoh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14721614_886645628133264_7277833541085445234_n.jpg?oh=a71fd8 41362d83bd9cae48226347bba4&oe=58ADE7E1

SOPS
21st Oct 2016, 03:12
PC Leftyism is out of control.

EGLD
21st Oct 2016, 06:54
I'll just leave this here. Thank god I don't live in Britain any more, it's become a disgusting place, and the decline is palpable every time I visit. I thought pilots were intelligent folk, then I see threads like this or on climate change, and the IQ level is no higher than a Daily Mail comments thread. Incredible. You should thank your lucky stars every day you didn't have hte misfortunate to be born in Syria.

https://scontent.feoh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14721614_886645628133264_7277833541085445234_n.jpg?oh=a71fd8 41362d83bd9cae48226347bba4&oe=58ADE7E1

"I have no counter argument so I'll claim everyone is stupid"

14 "children" :D LOL

Fareastdriver
21st Oct 2016, 09:58
Obviously Matt Scaff of Dorset does not remember that well over 50% of Dorset voted for Brexit.

HeartyMeatballs
21st Oct 2016, 11:02
So where do all of these people go?

Mortgage applications were down 60% at one bank for BTL mortgages due to the punitive stamp duty for second homes. Lefties will welcome this but it's ordinary people who own the properties that are rented out. There's a start shortage of housing stock and a high affordability problem in some areas so not many can afford to buy.

So if people can't afford to buy and there are fewer people buying properties to rent out to those who can't afford to buy and there's no social housing being built, where do they go?

Andy_S
21st Oct 2016, 12:40
Obviously Matt Scaff of Dorset does not remember that well over 50% of Dorset voted for Brexit.

He's also forgotten that the last change in interest rates was downwards......

EGLD
21st Oct 2016, 13:01
So where do all of these people go?


illegal HMOs, and none of them are next door to Gary Lineker or Lily Allen

HeartyMeatballs
21st Oct 2016, 13:57
Do excuse me. I forgot about all of the many elitist lefties with their mansions who all promised to house refugees. Problem solved. Actually when I recall the many champagne socialists who did offer up their home we could actually fit many many more in.

I'd like to offer my home too. £800/month plus bills and it's anyone's.

Evanelpus
21st Oct 2016, 14:59
I'd like to offer my home too. £800/month plus bills and it's anyone's.

Think of the many thousands of pounds it'll cost you to repair it afterwards, no way I'd rent out my house to anyone.

vctenderness
21st Oct 2016, 15:06
The latest group of 'children' are so grateful to the British public for the forthcoming bonanza of education, health care, accommodation, nourishment and free money that they decided to enter the promised land with blankets over their heads.

Why would children think to do that I wonder?

dazdaz1
21st Oct 2016, 15:28
I've found the tv series 'Can't pay we'll take it away' an insight to as to this associated problem. The many (flat/house) evictions featured in this series predominately shows people, who shall we say are not your typical Mr&Mrs Smith.

Long story short, they get evicted, Hight court enforcement officers then give them the eviction paper work then tell them to go to the council for emergency accommodation, which will then result in a future social housing offer at a greatly reduced rent as compaired to private rent. The system is being screwed.

It boils down to...... Rent privately, don't pay the rent, get evicted, await council housing. My blood boils!!

Andy_S
21st Oct 2016, 17:02
It boils down to...... Rent privately, don't pay the rent, get evicted, await council housing. My blood boils!!

I’ve not seen the program so I can’t comment. But demand for council housing greatly outstrips supply, so local authorities are actually highly dependent on the private sector to absorb the excess. Also, the local authority are likely to decide that unreasonable behaviour, like refusing to pay the rent, is tantamount to making yourself intentionally homeless. In such circumstances, their sympathy is likely to be limited.

Getting your hands on cushy, council owned accommodation isn’t quite the slam dunk some people think.

419
21st Oct 2016, 18:22
I'll just leave this here. Thank god I don't live in Britain any more, it's become a disgusting place, and the decline is palpable every time I visit.
So stop visiting then.

vctenderness
21st Oct 2016, 18:34
The not, fit for purpose, Home Office solution to the public outrage at 38 year old child refugees is to....erect screens at Croydon 'Lunatic House' reception centre so that the tax payer who pays for this largess can't see them.

It's outrageous.

meadowrun
21st Oct 2016, 19:14
You should thank your lucky stars every day you didn't have the misfortunate to be born in Syria.


Yes, crap country under the piece of crap ruler/dictator....however, if as a strapping young man capable of fighting for it, I wouldn't have run away.

Effluent Man
21st Oct 2016, 19:26
Which side though?

pax britanica
21st Oct 2016, 19:52
Actually severl of them do like like 17 18 year olds (from that aprt of the world ) to me but I agree the majority do not. Howvwer the intemperate daily Mail speak people sue just plays into the ahnds of so called bleeding heart liberals with influence.

Yes they should be screen - they should be given some form of ID ratehr than their made up name (tattooing their ID nymbers on them like the Czechs do for example so theycannot vanish into underground Britain. Some -probably manyare real refugees and its easier for fit young men to flee than women and older folk but again the proportions ehre are far beyond whats reasonable there -there should be some young women even if it is only 205 or so.

Also Syria was a functioning stable country before we and others encouraged revelution and rebellion and then abandanded it-a sort of Warsaw ghetto for the 21st century.

Sure you couldnt speak that freely there but can you in America if you make the wrong noises about the country-set fire to the Flag or sit down during the anthwem-OK you do not get put ina labour camp but your life can be ruined in other ways.

When will we remember that you can't eat democracy and leave countries alone to find their own solutions to internal conflicts like we did with our history. Screaming abuse at peopel and making ludicrous claims that all them are potential rapists doesnt help the argument- but firm reason based opposition might force our lazy idle Civil Service and Government to manage these things without resorting to the control our own borders crap which we have always been able to do (except for EU citizens but then they are not of the wrong religion are not rapsits, dont 'hate the west' or have been mentally scarred and hardened by bombing and shelling of their homes and families)

neila83
21st Oct 2016, 23:36
So stop visiting then.

I do as much as possible. I do quite like seeing my niece though. I also still have a vote that I use in the hope things might improve. Saying that my niece is half kiwi and will almost certainly be getting the hell out as my sister doesn't want to bring her up in a country that has become so nasty. I would like my country to get better. At the same time, I don't kid myself that palace is special just because I happened to be born between an arbitrary set of lines. That's patently absurd. It's interesting how Britain's reputation has collapsed in the last 6 months. Intelligent people everywhere are laughing at us.

Bizarre argument, anyone in the world who has any problems with their country should leave and never come back? There's a name for that kind of politics...

This 'liberal elitist' is the state school the son of 2 parents who didn't go to uni, one a railwayman (ticket office staff), and the other an administrator. So you'll have to find another way to dismiss my argumgents...

419
22nd Oct 2016, 01:23
Bizarre argument, anyone in the world who has any problems with their country should leave and never come back? There's a name for that kind of politics
What's bizarre about it?
In your own words, Great Britain is a disgusting country, one that you are glad you have left so if someone has that kind of attitude to their home country, what's wrong with wondering why they keep returning?

parabellum
22nd Oct 2016, 01:38
neila83 - Your age is shown as 33, if that is genuine are you really old and experienced enough to be making all these judgement calls?

pax britanica - Also Syria was a functioning stable country before we and others encouraged revolution and rebellion and then abandoned it-a sort of Warsaw ghetto for the 21st century.Syria? Been on the verge of boiling over for ages, don't think the British or anyone else need accept the blame for that one, much as the left of center love to apologise and take the blame for just about every single uprising everywhere. ;)

ORAC
22nd Oct 2016, 10:00
I believe Syria is a result of the "Arab Spring" rather than any western intervention, other than perhaps as an example of the type of society they aspired to live in rather than the feudal dictatorships and/or theocracies they suffered under.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring

The ones we attempted to help which failed we get abused for interfering. The ones which we didn't attempt to help which failed we get abused for supporting dictators etc.

Damned if we do and damned if we don't, the story of the west's involvement in the Arab world for the last 1000 years.

Trossie
22nd Oct 2016, 15:04
Getting back to Mr Scaff's comments:

https://scontent.feoh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14721614_886645628133264_7277833541085445234_n.jpg?oh=a71fd8 41362d83bd9cae48226347bba4&oe=58ADE7E1

The Pound was lower than now in the '80s, but maybe coming from the Jurassic Coast he considers the '80s to be "the Neolithic era". His ears must be shut because I've heard a lot more than a murmur on the topic.

Interest rates, err..., from what I've noticed they've gone down!

Money for the NHS, err..., again from what I heard Mrs May saying quite clearly in the House of Commons on Wednesday, the spending on the NHS is increasing!

And the situation of 'children' arriving from Calais has nowt to do with 'Brexit' as these are not 'EU' immigrants

So all I can assume is that Mr Scaff has a close connection with that 'delicacy' from that beautiful corner of the country, the "Dorset Knob"!

I'd still like to know why they are all trying to escape from France! (Although seeing the president who is running that country, I'm not too surprised.)

HeartyMeatballs
22nd Oct 2016, 15:12
Well said. And it wasn't 14 children. It was a handful with the rest masquerading as children.

That's what sickens me with the left. They make these crazy memes, spread their lies around social media and then people take it as gospel.

I'm just glad I don't have children. If I was a parent I'd be horrified seeing what's going on. Knowing my 15 year old will be potentially sharing a class with someone who is almost 40. You can't even clean windows in schools without a full CRB check yet these 'children' will be allowed in schools completely unchecked. They could be convicted rapists and paedophiles in their home countries. We may never know. Unfortunately they only had space to bring their fancy smartphones and not their passports or any of their papers.

https://s9.postimg.org/da5xv3ttr/image.jpg

wiggy
22nd Oct 2016, 18:10
Trossie

I'd still like to know why they are all trying to escape from France!

You asked that yesterday and I foolishly bothered to spend time answering it in permalink #84 (pulling info together form various sources it's down to a combination of language skills, familial links, benefits system, UK a soft touch in some areas, etc, etc).

None of the reasons has changed in the last 24 hours, and before you ask again I doubt the reasons will have changed tomorrow..

meadowrun
23rd Oct 2016, 02:51
New batches of younger, vulnerable children including girls with no British relations have arrived, this time with identities protected by the home office with photographic barriers.


Yet I continue to wonder why these vulnerable children with no British connections ,have not been protected in France nor in any of the dozen European countries they have so far passed through?

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 03:03
What's bizarre about it?
In your own words, Great Britain is a disgusting country, one that you are glad you have left so if someone has that kind of attitude to their home country, what's wrong with wondering why they keep returning?
Really, you don't understand why I might occasionally visit the place where my family and friends live? Another reason I left, it's nice being in a pace where empathy isn't some kind of personality disorder... I do try to keep my visits to a minimum mind you.

For those asking why all these refugees are fleeing france, and why Britain is such a soft touch,you might like to look at these 2 links, which show where people are going, and what each country offers. Be warned they do contain facts, so a trigger warning in case that scares you.

6 charts and a map that show where Europe's refugees are coming from - and the perilous journeys they are taking | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-six-charts-that-show-where-refugees-are-coming-from-where-they-are-going-and-how-they-10482415.html)

Migrant crisis: Which European country offers the most help to refugees? (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/migrant-crisis-which-european-country-offers-most-help-refugees-1523852)

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 03:30
neila83 - Your age is shown as 33, if that is genuine are you really old and experienced enough to be making all these judgement calls?

pax britanica - Syria? Been on the verge of boiling over for ages, don't think the British or anyone else need accept the blame for that one, much as the left of center love to apologise and take the blame for just about every single uprising everywhere. ;)
OK, how old does one need to be to have an opinion on things? Not sure which judgement calls you are referring to? If you mean my opinon that Britian has become a less tolerant, more racist, more ignorant place in the last few years, then yes I believe I am old enough. It's become a horribly divided nation, a division encouraged by the right for their own electoral purposes, not just on race, but encouraging the working classes to turn on each other to stop them voting for a government that might actually try and reduce the fairly horrid inequality. It's been known for years what the effects of inequality are, the lack of social mobility in the UK. But no-one wants to face up to it, because it means accepting that if you've done well, in most cases it's not because you're special, but entrenched social inmobility, and complete lack of a meritocracy.

I'm not sure age is the relevant factor, it certainly doesn't correlate with knowledge or ability to make informed decisions affecting the country at the moment; young people are generally better informed and less likely to spout clichéd nonsense straight from the front page of the Sun/Daily mail, and then keep spouting it even when presented with the actual, nuanced facts, that show a completely different reality.

KelvinD
23rd Oct 2016, 06:34
meadowrun; re vulnerable children, I suggest you look up the "Dubs Amendment". Following that, you could look up "Kindertransport" for a history of that.
As for why these kids have not been offered protection/asylum in France etc; isn't that down to the fact that the EU constantly fails to implement/police its own conventions when it doesn't suit? (In this case, the Dublin Regulation).

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 06:51
meadowrun; re vulnerable children, I suggest you look up the "Dubs Amendment". Following that, you could look up "Kindertransport" for a history of that.
As for why these kids have not been offered protection/asylum in France etc; isn't that down to the fact that the EU constantly fails to implement/police its own conventions when it doesn't suit? (In this case, the Dublin Regulation).

Furthermore, plenty of kids have been accepted in France and other European countries. It's only in the eyes of wide eyed right wingers that the whole world is desperate to come to Britain. Other European countries accept more refugees than us, but however many times you say that, people will keep insisting the UK is a soft touch. Because the daily mail told them so.

These are the same people who world have rejected Jewish immigrants the late 30s. Sadly, it's easy to see how history happened.

Wingswinger
23rd Oct 2016, 07:43
I'm not sure age is the relevant factor, it certainly doesn't correlate with knowledge or ability to make informed decisions affecting the country at the moment; young people are generally better informed and less likely to spout clichéd nonsense straight from the front page of the Sun/Daily mail, and then keep spouting it even when presented with the actual, nuanced facts, that show a completely different reality.

I'm sorry but that is just complete b******s. Young people, fresh from a state school or perhaps still in one, come with a complete set of virtue-signalling, identikit opinions. They have been brain-washed by their teachers who have all been infected wth political correctness at the universities, especially the education departments where they obtained their PGCEs. Intellectual freedom in the UK is under threat as never before. It is not acceptable at universities to voice an opinion contrary to the accepted ones and that includes the academic and administrative staff, not just the student body. It's so bad that if anyone admitted that he or she had voted for Brexit it would result in being sent to Coventry at best. It would finish their careers. It's a serious concern and it bodes ill for the future of Western civilisation.

EGLD
23rd Oct 2016, 09:24
For those asking why all these refugees are fleeing france, and why Britain is such a soft touch,you might like to look at these 2 links, which show where people are going, and what each country offers. Be warned they do contain facts, so a trigger warning in case that scares you.


Facts such as the UK paying 220% the benefits rate of France

These are the same people who world have rejected Jewish immigrants the late 30s

That's a pretty offensive, emotive sweeping generalization

Effluent Man
23rd Oct 2016, 09:32
And it's not just the swivel eyed right wingers, of whom Pprune certainly has a plethora. From my own perspective we have spent the last half century dispelling attitudes towards women, gays, transgender et al that came from an age that most of those said right wingers look back on with a dewy eyed fondness.

Personally I don't want anyone admitted to this country who wants to turn that particular clock back. Whether they admire Allah or The Pope is of no concern to me. If they cannot accept somebody who desires to play the pink oboe, sees themselves as a member of an alternative gender or is simply female as being as similar worth to themselves then I don't wish to share my country with them.

meadowrun
23rd Oct 2016, 09:45
It's become a horribly divided nation


Have you considered that the illegal immigration numbers and excessive EU immigration might have something to do with that.
As far as the "young" being better informed than those with more life under their belts - keep dreaming. I don't see better educated youth, slim on life experience, coming out of the education system in general terms and perpetual heads down in electronic devices in self-interest does not enrich much.

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 09:46
I'm sorry but that is just complete b******s. Young people, fresh from a state school or perhaps still in one, come with a complete set of virtue-signalling, identikit opinions. They have been brain-washed by their teachers who have all been infected wth political correctness at the universities, especially the education departments where they obtained their PGCEs. Intellectual freedom in the UK is under threat as never before. It is not acceptable at universities to voice an opinion contrary to the accepted ones and that includes the academic and administrative staff, not just the student body. It's so bad that if anyone admitted that he or she had voted for Brexit it would result in being sent to Coventry at best. It would finish their careers. It's a serious concern and it bodes ill for the future of Western civilisation.
Thank you for proving my point. Everything you just said is delusional nonsense.

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 09:50
I'm sorry but that is just complete b******s. Young people, fresh from a state school or perhaps still in one, come with a complete set of virtue-signalling, identikit opinions. They have been brain-washed by their teachers who have all been infected wth political correctness at the universities, especially the education departments where they obtained their PGCEs. Intellectual freedom in the UK is under threat as never before. It is not acceptable at universities to voice an opinion contrary to the accepted ones and that includes the academic and administrative staff, not just the student body. It's so bad that if anyone admitted that he or she had voted for Brexit it would result in being sent to Coventry at best. It would finish their careers. It's a serious concern and it bodes ill for the future of Western civilisation.
You did notice that brexit won? You can stop the crazy conspiracy they theories, your side won! Please tell me about all these academics being sacked for not supporting brexit?

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 09:52
The young are not better informed. The education system right up to degree level is still PC obsessed and extremely left. You're entitled to your own opinion but only if that opinion is leftist. Anyone else is automatically branded a racist or trouble maker.

Now Neila83 - perhaps you can address some of the questions posters have raised about the link to the self loathing hate-a-Brit story that you posted.

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 10:30
The young are not better informed. The education system right up to degree level is still PC obsessed and extremely left. You're entitled to your own opinion but only if that opinion is leftist. Anyone else is automatically branded a racist or trouble maker.

Now Neila83 - perhaps you can address some of the questions posters have raised about the link to the self loathing hate-a-Brit story that you posted.

If someone submits a well formed question I'll gladly answer it. What is your question? I provided some facts which seemed rather lacking in this thread and they seem to have been ignored. I await anyone's opinion on other European countries accepting more refugees than Britain?

The right like to say that the left are all super PC, super sensitive blah blah blah. But from what I can see, it is the right who are constantly moaning and whinging if they don't get their way. They actually seem to be very sensitive souls who struggle with anything they don't agree with. It's like people going nuts about someone not singing the national anthem...erm I guess itd you that's súper PC if you insist someone has to sing a song.

Krystal n chips
23rd Oct 2016, 10:34
" I'm sorry but that is just complete b******s"

Probably the best preface to a post on here in a long time....

And, you will also be delighted to learn, you didn't disappoint on your soothsaying aspirations..... contained in the last two words.

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 10:40
Facts such as the UK paying 220% the benefits rate of France



That's a pretty offensive, emotive sweeping generalization

The trouble is, it isn't. History shows us, people are surprisingly easy to persuade to behave in this way. The most dangerous thing is to assume that nazism was an anomaly, because it wasn't. There is no reason to believe people were fundamentally kinder now than 60 years ago.

What we know is some people found it very easy to blame another group and ostracise them and far, far, worse. I suspect not too hard to see which people would be the ones comfortable doing that now, and which wouldn't.

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 10:46
The only consistent moaning is the remainiacs of the left who don't quite grasp the concept of democracy.

When things don't go their way they kick up a fuss. When it still doesn't go their way they simply brand everyone as uneducated racistsor claim people who make a success didn't get there through hard work and merit.

Now, what's your stance of the U.K. paying 220% of the benefits of France? Could that not be the reason why? The link you provided to me reinforced the fact that immigrants and refugees are very well treated here. We provide real housing (as opposed to detention centres in some EU countries), we provide free education up to the age of 17 and we provide full access to the NHS whereas some only provide emergency care. Even the most staunch self hating lefty must admit that they are very well treated here.

The comment you made on Jews was just disgusting.

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 10:51
The young are not better informed. The education system right up to degree level is still PC obsessed and extremely left. You're entitled to your own opinion but only if that opinion is leftist. Anyone else is automatically branded a racist or trouble maker.

Now Neila83 - perhaps you can address some of the questions posters have raised about the link to the self loathing hate-a-Brit story that you posted.

Seriously, what are you talking about? People now are probably better educated than ever. What is your evidence for what you say? I studied at Warwick which is a pretty right wing place economically and socially. Anyway I know you will have evidence of all these academics being fired.

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 10:56
The only consistent moaning is the remainiacs of the left who don't quite grasp the concept of democracy.

When things don't go their way they kick up a fuss. When it still doesn't go their way they simply brand everyone as uneducated racistsor claim people who make a success didn't get there through hard work and merit.

Now, what's your stance of the U.K. paying 220% of the benefits of France? Could that not be the reason why? The link you provided to me reinforced the fact that immigrants and refugees are very well treated here. We provide real housing (as opposed to detention centres in some EU countries), we provide free education up to the age of 17 and we provide full access to the NHS whereas some only provide emergency care. Even the most staunch self hating lefty must admit that they are very well treated here.

The comment you made on Jews was just disgusting.

No it wasn't disgusting and I will keep saying it. It is exaxtly this path, the hate, denunciaton, the gradual erosion of people as human beings, that suddenly it becomes commonly acceptable to demean them. I lived in Rwanda and I know how it happened there, and what happened, so please go away with your faux outrage. I know many people who lived through a genocide.

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 10:58
Universities are 'dominated by left-wing hate mobs'.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/universities-dominated-left-wing-hate-mobs-says-professor-finley

'he was “mindlessly heckled” and branded a “white, male, colonialist, Zionist and racist” by one student'

You lived in Rwanda? Let me guess it was a 'gap yah'?

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 11:08
Universities are 'dominated by left-wing hate mobs'.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/universities-dominated-left-wing-hate-mobs-says-professor-finley

'he was “mindlessly heckled” and branded a “white, male, colonialist, Zionist and racist” by one student'

You lived in Rwanda? Let me guess it was a 'gap yah'?

Ah the university of buchingham! You realise one anecdote means nothing? There's one crazy guy. Look, generally acdemics rely on evidence.

The reason right wingers dont like that is that generally evidence isn't on their side. So they rant about political correctness, and don't even see the irony of them, for example, in the USA, talking about freedom, complaining aout political correctness, and then losing it about someone not singíng the national anthem.

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 11:09
Sue Jex of Care4Calais said she is 'proud of' the UK for the work they have done and for taking in the refugee children. Well said Sue. Up to 70 young refugees are due in Devon tomorrow. But let's not talk about that! We wouldn't want any positivity to surround England's actions on refugees.

It's not just one story though is it my self loathing friend? It was exactly the same at my university. Full of loud mouthed upper class people pontificating and telling us how to think.

Yes, and when you hate filled left wingers don't get their way and when evidence isn't on their side they brand everyone as racists, crazy or xenophobic.

Why do you keep banging on about the national anthem?

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 11:15
Universities are 'dominated by left-wing hate mobs'.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/universities-dominated-left-wing-hate-mobs-says-professor-finley

'he was “mindlessly heckled” and branded a “white, male, colonialist, Zionist and racist” by one student'

You lived in Rwanda? Let me guess it was a 'gap yah'?

No it wasn't a gap year. I was the direct adviser to the minister of trade, and provided advice to himself and his excellency the president. I wrote speeches on trade policy which Mr. Kagame hinself delivered. This was when I was 31. I never took a gap year. I'm happy to give you my details by PM if you dont believe me.

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 11:17
Oh well done you. Is that what qualifies you to belittle huge swathes of the country and to pontificate?

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 11:23
Sue Jex of Care4Calais said she is 'proud of' the UK for the work they have done and for taking in the refugee children. Well said Sue. Up to 70 young refugees are due in Devon tomorrow. But let's not talk about that! We wouldn't want any positivity to surround England's actions on refugees.

It's not just one story though is it my self loathing friend? It was exactly the same at my university. Full of loud mouthed upper class people pontificating and telling us how to think.

Yes, and when you hate filled left wingers don't get their way and when evidence isn't on their side they brand everyone as racists, crazy or xenophobic.

Why do you keep banging on about the national anthem?

I'm very happy to congrarulate Sue, any positive actions here delights me. There are a lot of wonderful people in the UK, Sue is clearly one of them.

I'm somewhat puzzled that you call anyone who raises any questions 'seklf hating,'. Is it your view that just because you're born on one side of a line you have to agree with everything that country does? Because that seems a bit silly. Good for you that you happened to be born in the exact place that you agree with on everythung, I tend to think a slightly more open mind is a good thing

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 11:27
Oh well done you. Is that what qualifies you to belittle huge swathes of the country and to pontificate?

Could you actually make a point? You've spent a few posts throwing out insults, and been proven wrong. What do you actually disagree with?

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 11:28
Leftism is synonymous with self hate. Look up your trendy idols (you know the ones who pontificate about climate change yet jet all over the world) such as Emma Thompson or Lily Allen. Self hatred plain as day.

Not likely my friend. I was born in a part of England where lefties run and ruin it and still moan about the closure of the coal mines whilst forgetting it was a labour policy oh and forget now deadly it was and devastating for long term heal. Stick a rosette on a monkey here and you're guaranteed to keep your labour seat.

I deal with people like you daily.

Do explain how I've been wrong???

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 11:29
Oh well done you. Is that what qualifies you to belittle huge swathes of the country and to pontificate?

Oh and I really, really hope you 're not assuming I'm a loud mouthed upper class something...because that would make you very very silly

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 11:34
In terms of self hate. I'll leave you with your quote:

I'll just leave this here. Thank god I don't live in Britain any more, it's become a disgusting place, and the decline is palpable every time I visit. I thought pilots were intelligent folk, then I see threads like this or on climate change, and the IQ level is no higher than a Daily Mail comments thread. Incredible.

Self hatred. Plain as day. Wherever it is that you live I honestly believe the UK is a better place without you. One less self loather to deal with. Not only do you insist an entire country but you also insult an entire profession.

Bravo.

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 11:40
Leftism is synonymous with self hate. Look up your trendy idols (you know the ones who pontificate about climate change yet jet all over the world) such as Emma Thompson or Lily Allen. Self hatred plain as day.

Not likely my friend. I was born in a part of England where lefties run and ruin it and still moan about the closure of the coal mines whilst forgetting it was a labour policy oh and forget now deadly it was and devastating for long term heal. Stick a rosette on a monkey here and you're guaranteed to keep your labour seat.

I deal with people like you daily.

Do explain how I've been wrong???

Wow. you blame labour for closing the mines? I don't mean to be rude, but your post reads like a bit of a rant without many facts. Could you explain what the left did wrong, and why you think a Tory MP would be better? Then we might start to get somewhere.

What do you mean by self hate? I don't hate myself, I live in Colombia and consider myself incredibly lucky. Do you mean 'not blindy accepting everything your country does is good just because you were born there?' do you expect someone from venezuela to say everything their country does is good, or is it only British people bound by this rule?

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 11:42
In terms of self hate. I'll leave you with your quote:

I'll just leave this here. Thank god I don't live in Britain any more, it's become a disgusting place, and the decline is palpable every time I visit. I thought pilots were intelligent folk, then I see threads like this or on climate change, and the IQ level is no higher than a Daily Mail comments thread. Incredible.

Self hatred. Plain as day. Wherever it is that you live I honestly believe the UK is a better place without you. One less self loather to deal with. Not only do you insist an entire country but you also insult an entire profession.

Bravo.

Wow. So you're a facist? You genuinely believe a person isn't allowed to exoress concern with their own country? Imagine where that would get us in reality, everyone saying their country is best.

No I don't hate myself, because I don't define myself by where I was born. I've made amazing friends, had relationships in other countries,and I think everyone should have that oportunity. Or at least open their mind to it. You seem very angry,telling me not to come back etc. Dont worry, I'm sure a lot of people wont be coming back to the UK. Good luck living your dream.

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 11:47
No. I'm surrounded by labour supporters. How on earth could you infer that I'm a labour supporter from my post?

No post typifies the likes of yourself quite like post 152.

I accuse you of hating Britain. I provide evidence of my suspicion. I am then branded a FACIST! Unbelievable. Actually, it is believable as I'm engaging in conversation with a lefty.

If you're in Columbia and clearly hate Britain so much more then why get involved? I did not tell you not to come back, I merely stated that the UK is better off without you. There's a difference. And we all know you'll be back. I've seen it time and time again. People move away, tell us how wonderful it is not being here and then as soon as the money dries up or their health deteriorates they come back quicker than a pulled elastic band.

Its lovely that you've had a chance to see the world however not everyone does have that opportunity that the privileges few have.

Bravo old chap.

EGLD
23rd Oct 2016, 11:53
I suspect not too hard to see which people would be the ones comfortable doing that now

Are you talking about the opposition party that's rife with anti-Jewish racists?

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 11:57
No. I'm surrounded by labour supporters. How on earth could you infer that I'm a labour supporter from my post?

No post typifies the likes of yourself quite like post 152.

I accuse you of hating Britain. I provide evidence of my suspicion. I am then branded a FACIST! Unbelievable. Actually, it is believable as I'm engaging in conversation with a lefty.

If you're in Columbia and clearly hate Britain so much more then why get involved?

Bravo old chap.

I don't hate Britain. It's my country and it devestates me to see where it's going. It should be obvious that there is a big difference between hating a country and caring about it's direction. But that seems to be lost on you, if you don't mind me saying, you do jump to very simplistic conclusions. I don't think most people would assume I 'hate Britain' just because I disagree with some of its politics. I believe a fairly important part of what we stand for is being able to disagree and say how we feel?

I said facist because you repeatedly said I 'hate britain' because I have some issues with its politics. I see you are a democrat so do you accept I am alowed to voice concern about britain? Or does everyone have to love everything about the country they were born in?

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 12:00
Are you talking about the opposition party that's rife with anti-Jewish racists?

That could be labour or the tories. Both parties are full of scum.

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 12:03
You called Britain a 'disgusting' place. You're not voicing your concern. You're continually talking Britain down and badmouthing the people of Britain. A majority of us are hard working people who want the best for us and our children. I'm putting two and two together and getting 23 but I think you may have had a comfortable middle class upbringing and that's lovely. But for the majority of normal people they have very real concerns.

I'd also argue that you live thousands of miles away. You won't feel any of affects that's we all feel. You're a bit like the SNP who call for more refugees knowing full well that most of them will go to England and thus won't be their problem.

That I find very disingenuous.

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 12:32
Interestingly nelia83, the 'disgusting' UK is no more racist than the utopian Colombia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 12:40
You called Britain a 'disgusting' place. You're not voicing your concern. You're continually talking Britain down and badmouthing the people of Britain. A majority of us are hard working people who want the best for us and our children. I'm putting two and two together and getting 23 but I think you may have had a comfortable middle class upbringing and that's lovely. But for the majority of normal people they have very real concerns.

I'd also argue that you live thousands of miles away. You won't feel any of affects that's we all feel. You're a bit like the SNP who call for more refugees knowing full well that most of them will go to England and thus won't be their problem.

That I find very disingenuous.

No I didnt have a comfortable middle class upbringing. I was the first person in my entire family to go to university. My dad spent 40 years commuting from reading to Paddington to sell train tickets. My mum worked as an administrator. Neither went to university. I grew up on a council estate, putting leaflets through doors for labour when i was 7 in the late 80s. To be fair I actually found it quite fun back then. My parents struggled, hard. So don't dismiss my opinions so easily. I was lucky, I understand social mobility and I know I was lucky, nothing special about me. I want social mobility, and that is the prime reason I will forever despide the tories, because I have a lot of good friends at home who are trapped and I know what my parents went through in the 70s and 80s.

I will not have anyone tell me what I can and can't care about and that wanting my country to be a better place means I hate my country and am not entitled to an opinión on it. I work hard, my parents worked harder than any of you imagine, my Dad doing 12 hour shifts 8 consecutive days, plus the commute. So dont tell me I cant comment.

AtomKraft
23rd Oct 2016, 12:41
I don't hate Britain either, but its become a bloody annoying place to live.

Hopefully, it will get 'better', but my money is on it getting worse- at least what *I* consider worse.

I'll be back at some point, no doubt. But I hope it wont be too soon.

Low wages- compared to here anyway. I get about twice as much as a British Airline used to pay me.
Sky high taxes.
Sky high price of every damn thing you buy. A coke in the UK costs twenty times what a Coke costs here.
Bloody rules for everything, and never the tiniest bit of discretion applied in the enforcement of.
No respect for piloting as a profession, least of all by ones employer!
I sometimes listen to the Today programme, as I used to- but I can't hack the utter shit they come out with for more than ten minutes. It's alltittle-tattle, pc bullshit and political posturing.

I could go on, but what's the point?

Better to cast one vote with ones feet!;)

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 12:51
You called Britain a 'disgusting' place. You're not voicing your concern. You're continually talking Britain down and badmouthing the people of Britain. A majority of us are hard working people who want the best for us and our children. I'm putting two and two together and getting 23 but I think you may have had a comfortable middle class upbringing and that's lovely. But for the majority of normal people they have very real concerns.

I'd also argue that you live thousands of miles away. You won't feel any of affects that's we all feel. You're a bit like the SNP who call for more refugees knowing full well that most of them will go to England and thus won't be their problem.

That I find very disingenuous.

Look, obviously you've taken what I said personally. My sister, my brother, my parents, my niece, my friends, live in the UK. I don't run it all down, but I do think it has become increasingly nasty, both to its own poor, and outsiders. And I felt this when I lived and worked there, not just as an outsider. The general nastiness is what gets me now, everyone seems to be angry, to hate someone, but it's always the worst off who get the blame. The poor immigrants, etc, historically, that is worrying.

HeartyMeatballs
23rd Oct 2016, 13:01
You called our country disgusting. Those of us mere mortals who are still living in the country which you hate so dearly will likely have a different view. It's the people in the south east who I pity the most. We all know they are the ones who will be hit the worst.

I was brought up in a damp ridden council house. Both of my parents worked long and hard. I got a job flying jets and earn a good wage. I don't think I have Labour nor the Tories to thank for that. I got it through hard work and determination.

If it was down to labour we would all still be down the mines. That does nothing for social mobility.

I still haven't forgotten where I come from. The difference is I'm proud to be from a country where this is possible. Where no matter where your background you can achieve what you want. Whereas you continually talk down your country and despise it. It's classic self loathing synonymous with the left.

Maybe domestic hate is on the rise. UKIP seemed to be gathering transition before they self imploded & anti English sentiment is palpable north of the border.

EGLD
23rd Oct 2016, 13:03
That could be labour or the tories. Both parties are full of scum.

now you're just angry and lashing out
xx

EGLD
23rd Oct 2016, 13:08
A need for social mobility is largely a middle class graduate perpetuated myth, social climbers are the worst people in my experience

Going to university these days does not equate to any social mobility - everyone goes, it's been completely devalued

But more to the point, most working class people are very happy to stay where they are amongst friends and a culture they like and understand. They're quite happy to doff their cap to a judge, an airline pilot or a doctor and accept their place in society

What they don't like is people from social classes above them pushing their dinner party one-upmanship, social justice warrior politics and the repercussions onto them and their communities

Trossie
23rd Oct 2016, 15:29
Trossie

Quote:
I'd still like to know why they are all trying to escape from France!

You asked that yesterday and I foolishly bothered to spend time answering it in permalink #84 (pulling info together form various sources it's down to a combination of language skills, familial links, benefits system, UK a soft touch in some areas, etc, etc).

None of the reasons has changed in the last 24 hours, and before you ask again I doubt the reasons will have changed tomorrow..wiggy,

Apologies for that. I know you'd answered. And very rationally too. It's just that I was hoping to try to stir up a response from either a genuine 'Froggie' (not an 'imitation' Froggie like you!) or one of those vocal lefties who have so much to say. A reply from neila83 to that question should be entertaining! (Rwanda and Columbia. Wow! Some choice places to live!)

Andy_S
23rd Oct 2016, 15:37
I understand social mobility and I know I was lucky, nothing special about me. I want social mobility, and that is the prime reason I will forever despide the tories.......

You do realise that social mobility actually declined under the last Labour government?

wiggy
23rd Oct 2016, 15:37
Trossie

Apologies for that. I know you'd answered. And very rationally too. It's just that I was hoping to try to stir up a response from either a genuine 'Froggie' (not an 'imitation' Froggie like you!)

No worries, but as for the "imitation" froggie bit...as they say here ..pff...:ok:

Krystal n chips
23rd Oct 2016, 18:32
Andy S....

Alas, and not for the first time, you need to go back a bit further in recent UK history before conveniently trying to simply blame Labour....

How social mobility got stuck (http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/05/how-social-mobility-got-stuck)

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 18:51
A need for social mobility is largely a middle class graduate perpetuated myth, social climbers are the worst people in my experience

Going to university these days does not equate to any social mobility - everyone goes, it's been completely devalued

But more to the point, most working class people are very happy to stay where they are amongst friends and a culture they like and understand. They're quite happy to doff their cap to a judge, an airline pilot or a doctor and accept their place in society

What they don't like is people from social classes above them pushing their dinner party one-upmanship, social justice warrior politics and the repercussions onto them and their communities

Wow :rolleyes:

I am from the working classes, my friends in the UK didn't go to university and all graft damn hard to survive. I can assure you they do not 'accept their place' or are at all happy that they will have to work all the hours god sends for a pittence for the rest of their working lives. Unbelievable, actually I will assume you're trolling, well played Sir. If not, well I hope you don't meet any of these working class people you know all about, you might get more than a cap doffed at you.

Putting up with it, because if you're in the UK or US you have no choice, does not equate to being happy with it. I'm intirgued though what you think would be the repeussions of greater meritocracy that the working classes wouldn't like? You're saying people would prefer not to have more choices/opportunities? Interesting. Someone better tell the Scandinavians they've got it all wrong and to stop making their people so damn happy!

Expatrick
23rd Oct 2016, 18:55
One thing this thread has proved - it's not just the young who are misinformed.

Expatrick
23rd Oct 2016, 19:49
It would be very simple to sort out the refugee question. Singapore, for example, has severe penalties for illegal immigration. Maybe if these "children" knew that they would be jailed, beaten and deported then they wouldn't be so keen on getting to the UK. Nobody coming to the UK can be a genuine refugee or asylum seeker, as there are plenty of safe haven countries that they will have passed through before reaching our shores. Therefore, the presumption should be that those claiming asylum/ refugee status are attempting to enter the country illegally, unless they can prove otherwise, and they should face severe criminal sanctions for doing so. The UK must cease to be a soft touch.

Hmmm,modern Britain.

Rosevidney1
23rd Oct 2016, 19:59
Oh, what a wicked lot we Brits must be - for being Brits.

Expatrick
23rd Oct 2016, 20:27
Oh, what a wicked lot we Brits must be - for being Brits.

Non sequitur!

Wingswinger
23rd Oct 2016, 21:21
Thank you for proving my point. Everything you just said is delusional nonsense.

Delusional nonsense? I have contacts at a well known university on the Isis who tell me it is so. No point has been proved.

You did notice that brexit won? You can stop the crazy conspiracy they theories, your side won! Please tell me about all these academics being sacked for not supporting brexit?

I did catch the news, thanks. The conspiracy now on the part of the remoaners is to delay or frustrate Brexit. Surely you can't have missed that. I didn't say any have been sacked and it would be for voting to leave in any case; I said it could end their careers. My sources attest to that. They feel they cannot speak their minds. Google Professor Roger Scruton. His story will tell you all you need to know. There are others.

And, you will also be delighted to learn, you didn't disappoint on your soothsaying aspirations..... contained in the last two words.

Delighted to be of service to you, Komrad Krystal. You can always be relied upon to pop up and give us all a giggle.

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 23:09
Wow! Didn't you rough it!
I'll refrain from doing life history apart from pointing out that you are not at all unique.
Didn't turn me into a raving Leftie and our younger son, an artist, doesn't appear to follow the politics usually associated with his profession.
I'm not claiming to have roughed it, just correcting the repeated personal attacks and mistaken assumptions. It seems a lot of people are incapable of formulating an argument, so use their 'automated liberal leftie insult generator' and thrown down whatever it churns out 'liberal elites' 'comfortable middle class' etc etc. Given that they have this wrong and are clearly not concerned about establishing the facts before they write, I assume the rest of their post is equally wrong. By tje way what is a 'raving leftie'? Is it anyone who disagrees with you? No better than the Corbyn fans who call anyone who disagrees with them a 'red tory' or Blairite. Simplistic nonsense. It's so depressing the lack of nuance, and compassion, in debate.

If you have an argument, you don't need to get personal. It is a well known tactic though, to try and question the motives of the person commenting, or say for X Y Z reason they are not entitled to an opinion., rather than debating the actual points raised. I wonderr if people notice the irony of comp,laining about political correctness all the time, but get incredibly offended and start jumping up and down if anyone dares criticise their own country. Fragile darlings really.

This sums it up well...
Why Gary Lineker, Lily Allen and you shouldn't comment | JOE.ie (http://www.joe.ie/sport/why-gary-lineker-lily-allen-and-you-shouldnt-comment/564545?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=onsite_share)

parabellum
23rd Oct 2016, 23:16
Someone better tell the Scandinavians they've got it all wrong and to stop making their people so damn happy!

Last I heard most of Scandinavia have binned 'multiculturalism', Sweden and Denmark are particularly displeased with the behaviour of recent arrivals from the Middle East and Africa.

neila83
23rd Oct 2016, 23:41
Last I heard most of Scandinavia have binned 'multiculturalism', Sweden and Denmark are particularly displeased with the behaviour of recent arrivals from the Middle East and Africa.
I was referring to their economic system, which is really a form of socialism light, and the vastly higher levels of social mobility there. According to the person I was responding to, people don't want such social mobilty, so it's bizarre how Scandinavia routinely is reported as having the highest levels of happiness and huiman welfare in the developed world.

Yes it hasn't been immune from the nationalism sweeping Europe, I have a Danish friend who is rather depressed about the politics in his country. Sweden has been the most welcoming country to refugees however, and it's people still by a majority say they want to help refugees, but perhaps not take the most of all Euriopean countries, which is probably fair enough given its size.

galaxy flyer
24th Oct 2016, 00:38
Why is any country in the EU taking anyone in? Germans are in a high state of pi**edness over Merkel's inviting them and the subsequent violence and social unrest. Some Syrians are so grateful, they're telling the Germans to leave if they don't like it. EXCUSE ME, it's their country. Send 'em back to Syria to fight it out.

GF

NutLoose
24th Oct 2016, 02:28
Plenty of UK territory to settle them in, South Georgia comes to mind.

Sorry but until they address the problem they will never cure it, sticking ships close inshore to Libya simply means they can set off in even less sea worthy vessels as they know they will be picked up. By all means pick them up, but land them back in Libya. Once it gets around that it is happening then the sooner the trade will dry up, who will pay thousands knowing their fate is death or being landed back from whence they came. Isn't it maritime law that those rescued should be landed in the nearest country?

Trossie
24th Oct 2016, 08:57
neila83, instead of your rants that are completely off the topic of this thread, please try to return a bit closer to the topic by answering this question:

"Why are so many people trying to escape from France?"

(And no cheating by looking up wiggy's answer!)

Expatrick
24th Oct 2016, 10:51
neila83, instead of your rants that are completely off the topic of this thread, please try to return a bit closer to the topic by answering this question:

"Why are so many people trying to escape from France?"

(And no cheating by looking up wiggy's answer!)

No, the topic is "Britain welcomes refugee children" not "why are so many people trying to escape from France".

Trossie
24th Oct 2016, 19:00
Expatrick, agreed. But it's still a lot closer than that tangent that some like neila83 have gone off on!

EGLD
24th Oct 2016, 20:12
So as we saw today, the "jungle" is almost exclusively full of african men in their 20's and 30's, with Samsonite luggage and mobile phones

Doesn't quite fit the narrative does it?

Cazalet33
25th Oct 2016, 10:18
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/10/22/2310-MATT-GALLERY-WEB-P1-large_trans++qVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8.png

KelvinD
25th Oct 2016, 17:46
Approx 600 unaccompanied minors have been removed from the jungle in recent days.
So, that certainly does "fit the narrative".
And I see the gutter press (Mail, Sun et al) having made a lot of the handful of people who looked somewhat iffy regarding their age, (thanks to the 2 posters who provided the info re the so-called "interpreter) have not made such a fuss about the 200 odd teenagers recently brought to the UK. Not old enough for dramatic headlines, no doubt. On the other hand they have trumpeted the bigotry prevalent in Devon with yokels/villagers expressing "fury at the bizarre decision" to send 70 kids there on a temporary basis while arrangements are made to re-unite them with families. Pathetic!
Am I the only one who makes a distinction between refugees and economic chancers? I think we should treat all refugees with at least a degree of humanity. Unless you have suffered it yourself, you have no idea how bloody depressing it to find yourself hiding from someone's army, with no home, no money and only the clothes on your back.
The economic chancers on the other hand, should be weeded out in Greece as they arrive. I have no time for them. If they have applied for and been denied visas for the UK, then that is because the UK is not interested in them coming here. Trying it on the way they do is like having someone insisting on coming into your house. after you have told them more than once they are not coming in.
As for anti-refugee posts from members in the US; have a look at your past and the bunch of religious fundamentalists who founded the country.

EGLD
25th Oct 2016, 17:56
the 200 odd teenagers recently brought to the UK.

:ugh:
we saw the photos, before they put up a big tarp to hide the farce from the media

Katamarino
25th Oct 2016, 21:55
I think very few people are against the real refugees. The problem is the complete refusal of the politicians to accept that there is any difference between the refugees and the tide of illegal immigrants trying it on alongside them. If the two groups were properly separated and treated accordingly, I think there'd be much, much less fuss going on.

A big part of the problem is that anyone who actually tries to point out that there's a difference between the groups is shouted down and accused of bigotry by a certain section of the political spectrum, making it very hard to address the issue.

MrSnuggles
26th Oct 2016, 17:00
Dear Britain, DO NOT, I repeat PLEASE DO NOT make the same stupid cluster**** and import those "lone children" that I hear about.

In Sweden they are called "beard children" (skäggbarn) and they are silently mocked by many people. Only recently did the gouverning SJWs notice that they actually lie and commit crimes. Recently we had a case where some skäggbarn attacked and killed some guy for no good reason. The attacker claimed he was 16 but forensic age determination concluded he was at least 21, more likely 25. That was one of those illegal immigrant lone coming boys who pleaded for his staying in Sweden. Luckily he was put on a total ban list and deported quickly thereafter.

An official study from 2005/2006 found that people from Middle East and North Africa were more than twice as likely than common Swedes to commit crimes. People from Indonesia/China/Philippines were much less likely than common Swedes to commit crimes. Maybe this is because the former group are running away from bad situations while the latter group comes here for work/study but I am inclined to believe that their upbringing must have something to do with it also.

So please Britain, do not fall for the folly to accept those skäggbarn. They are male in about 90% of the cases and they will cause you trouble.

Here are some numbers from Migrationsverket, the agency that handles immigration and refugees.

Ensamkommande barn - Migrationsinfo (http://www.migrationsinfo.se/migration/sverige/asylsokande-i-sverige/ensamkommande-barn/)

I am sorry but this^ is only in Swedish.

jindabyne
26th Oct 2016, 21:09
Katamarino,

Well said. Your second sentence, for me , accurately sums up this whole debate.

But no doubt neila83 will thump the tub again.

The sad part of all this is that the children in real need will be seriously disadvantaged, not to say ignored.

Katamarino
26th Oct 2016, 22:19
Good point jindabyne. The genuine refugees are the ones really losing out from the politicians and SJWs refusal to address the truly illegal migrant issue.

svhar
26th Oct 2016, 22:42
Genuine refugees? Genuiene economic refugees, genuine political refugees, Syrian refugees, what is the difference? They all want a better life. So where do we draw the line? Aleppo today, Mosul tomorrow. These places always have been and always will be war torn. If we bring them all here, will they start to behave?

The World's Most War-Torn Countries - WorldAtlas.com (http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-world-s-most-war-torn-countries.html)

sitigeltfel
27th Oct 2016, 06:59
MrSnuggles will need no reminding of the hell hole they have created in the Gothenburg district of Angered.

Coming to a city near you, if not there already!

Trossie
27th Oct 2016, 08:28
Thanks for that interesting reference svhar. Ukraine seems to be the odd-one-out.

Come on neila83 (you seem to have gone into hiding!): Why are so many 'children' trying to escape from France??

MG23
27th Oct 2016, 19:11
Why is any country in the EU taking anyone in?

Because they're running out of native left-wing voters, and need to import new ones.

meadowrun
30th Oct 2016, 12:43
'Child migrant' who said he was 16 when he came to the UK from the Calais Jungle boasts of being 22 on a dating website and has a beard on his LinkedIn profile


Haris Stanikzai was among the first 14 children to arrive from the Jungle
He told UK authorities he was 16 years of age but had no documentation
His LinkedIn profile claims he is in the third year of an accounting degree
A profile on an internet dating website claimed Stanikzai was 22 years old

DM, of course


Got his priorities right - straight into the dating scene.

UniFoxOs
30th Oct 2016, 13:19
A large number could be returned, with help to rebuild their country after the war.

Oh Yeah! Not in my lifetime, I'll bet.

sitigeltfel
30th Oct 2016, 13:42
A large number could be returned, with help to rebuild their country after the war. Maybe those who have ended up in Italy could get some experience by volunteering to help clear the recent earthquake damage? After all, they must be keen to show some thanks for the hospitality they have been given?

Kelly Hopper
30th Oct 2016, 14:55
I see the Australians have announced that anyone arriving on their shores illegally will be returned and banned from ever entering Australia again. Not even for a holiday.
Why can't we have politicians with a likeminded backbone in Europe? It's problem solved in one easy measure. You want to come? Go through the proper channels! Simples!

Clare Prop
30th Oct 2016, 15:08
^^ Anyone arriving illegally by boat. Still has to get through the parliament.

Molemot
30th Oct 2016, 18:55
Everyone talks of "sending them back"....it's not as easy as that. There has to be somewhere willing to accept them; most of them do not have the necessary document showing their identity and nationality, so what country is going to say..."Yes...one of ours." Trying to document the documentless is a long and painful task with many hoops to jump through...it can take years.

International agreements require the first safe country they arrive in to process them and examine their claim to asylum; instead they have been allowed to roam everywhere until a large number have ended up in Calais. They are a French problem, and have nothing whatsoever to do with the UK whilst they remain on French soil.

The French would far rather just let them continue to stow away and then arrive illegally in the UK, in the happy knowledge that our courts will not permit them to be returned to France....problem solved, for the French, laissez-faire triumphs again. The French authorities should have grasped the nettle and done what they are required to do, then the whole situation could have been avoided.

WhatsaLizad?
31st Oct 2016, 01:23
Molemot,


Yes it is as "easy as that". They get interviewed and sent back to their home countries. The west should band to together and withhold trade and aid to those that balk about their returnees.

KelvinD
31st Oct 2016, 07:31
No. Molemot is dead right and I am surprised it has taken so long for someone to point this out.
If a deportee is presented to an airline for travel, the airline will insist, quite properly, that they see his documentation, including passport etc. No passport, no travel. So, the government might try to use a charter aircraft. And if a plane load of undocumented people rock up in said aircraft, the foreign authorities will put them right back on the aircraft and tell the driver to get them out of here.
These people will have destroyed their passports etc so are hardly likely to start claiming they belong to this or that country. So where to deport them to in the first place?
As for the French, they are laughable. Hollande is insisting the UK "takes its fair share". And when is he due to start telling Estonia, Spain, Luxembourg etc that they too should be taking their "fare share". Nevertheless this is really the fault of Greece & Italy as they were (in the main) the countries into which they first arrived and should have been documented there.As far as I am concerned this whole fiasco shows up the whole European Union for the farce it has become. "Union"? I don't think so.

Nervous SLF
31st Oct 2016, 07:43
There is a certain website that has started doing DNA tests so you can find out where you came from. If they can do this
how come a Government which has far greater resources does not do the same? "That DNA tests shows that you are from
country xyz so that is where you are going". If their real country of origin refuses to take them back then economic sanctions
must be applied instantly as WhatsalLizad said.

TWT
31st Oct 2016, 07:51
Nervous,there is no real correlation between a person's DNA and country of birth.

DirtyProp
31st Oct 2016, 08:21
Everyone talks of "sending them back"....it's not as easy as that. There has to be somewhere willing to accept them; most of them do not have the necessary document showing their identity and nationality, so what country is going to say..."Yes...one of ours." Trying to document the documentless is a long and painful task with many hoops to jump through...it can take years.

In that case, detention center until he gets his memory back and can actually prove where he came from.
Why should we let people we know nothing about free to roam on our land?

The lybians must be held accountable for this gigantic mess.
They are the ones that allow their southern borders to be completely open to anyone - maybe because someone down there is making a nice profit? And they are the ones that allow these people to leave THEIR coasts, again because someone is making a nice profit with those boats.
Funnily enough, when we start telling them "please, take them back" they refuse. And obviously they see any foreign boat entering their waters as an act of war, even if they simply want to drop the migrants ashore.
Either they start accepting their responsibilities, or we should collectively bomb them back to the stone age.

Andy_S
31st Oct 2016, 09:55
The lybians must be held accountable for this gigantic mess.

Since we were complicit in destabilising Libya in the first place, I'm afraid a lot of that accountability comes right back to us.

vctenderness
31st Oct 2016, 10:41
Quote: Since we were complicit in destabilising Libya in the first place, I'm afraid a lot of that accountability comes right back to us.

So you don't remember a certain gentleman by the name of Gaddafi who used the same tricks to blackmail the west into paying him billions to stop the migrants coming? I think you will find this was long before we 'destabilised' Libya.

Why do some people desperately want to blame ourselves for the criminal acts of others?

Metro man
31st Oct 2016, 12:29
If there was a large camp of illegals near Dover desperately trying to get into France, would the French government accept them or tell the British government that it was their problem for allowing them entry in the first place ?

Expatrick
31st Oct 2016, 12:36
If there was a large camp of illegals near Dover desperately trying to get into France, would the French government accept them or tell the British government that it was their problem for allowing them entry in the first place ?

Which takes us neatly back to the question "why UK, why not France" which Wiggy has answered!

meadowrun
31st Oct 2016, 15:36
I don't buy any of this don't know where I came from BS.


When you were 12 did you know where you were born? Had a very good idea of your birthday or at least birth year? Where you moved to if you left one country to live in another? Your last address, the address before that? The name of your school? The name of your favorite teacher? The names of your parents, grandparents and some uncles and aunts? Or are they all just STUPID?


For all these illegals, children and adults, these things should be provided by them for verification to some level...otherwise they should be told their status will never be normalized, they will be on minimum benefits and they will never have a chance at citizenship.


I liked the comment by some ex-Calais jungle member..."Now we go to new jungle".

Rwy in Sight
31st Oct 2016, 21:30
Nevertheless this is really the fault of Greece & Italy as they were (in the main) the countries into which they first arrived and should have been documented there

The main mistake of Greece is the change of its policy in early 2015 offering 6 & 6 months for everybody reaching its shores. The previous policy involved serious border control by the coast guard and locking up those unable to show legally entering Greece. Obviously the Greek government initially talked about an EU regulation requiring offering assistance to everybody but this is long forgotten.
Unfortunately all are still welcome and Greece just hopes other European countries will help sort this mess.

Unfortunately Europe does not want to stop the flow because it provide a very good income for people in NGO and other high positions.

Trossie
31st Oct 2016, 21:51
Which takes us neatly back to the question "why UK, why not France" which Wiggy has answered!wiggy HAS answered it (and very well). The lefties who are so pleased to pronounce so frequently here are the ones that are 'deafeningly' silent on that one!

WhatsaLizad?
31st Oct 2016, 22:27
No. Molemot is dead right and I am surprised it has taken so long for someone to point this out.


Again, IMHO, he is wrong.
Detain them, interview them and send them back where they came from. If their original country balks, apply economic pressure. That would require a common agreement on repatriation of most of what we call the western world.

MrSnuggles
1st Nov 2016, 12:43
Statistics from Iraqi immigrants to Sweden has shown about 80% of them arrives without any kind of identification documents. Customs sweeping the ferry found passports identifying about 40% of these persons clogged in toilets and the like. The rest of the papers have possibly been thrown into the sea - there has been occasions where beach goers have found the "missing documents" washed ashore. As you probably deducted, plenty of the existing documents was not of Iraqi origin.

The overwhelmingly and largest problem in Sweden has been the illegal lone coming boys who "happened" to lose their papers should they get caught by customs or police. Many of these boys roam the streets, begging, harassing women in the public swimming pools, shoplifting and conducting petty theft. After a gouvernment intervention many of these twats were found to originate from Morocco.
Now, Morocco refused to take them back unless Sweden invested money in Moroccan stuff - I do not know exactly what they wanted done, maybe some sand dune removal? so there was lots of angry faces here up north. I do not know what happened to those twats, but I sure hope they got back to Morocco. If they can beg and shoplift up here they might as well be of some use moving sand dunes down there.

GOD I sound like a full flegded racist. I promise you I am not. I am just utterly fed up with this pampering to stupid people. In this case, the stupid people are those who flush their passport down the toilet and the Moroccan gouvernment who wants to blackmail Sweden in order to take care of its own citizens.

ORAC
1st Nov 2016, 12:56
MrS, it is such a regular occurrence post-arrivals and in the transit corridors at Heathrow and Gatwick that the toilet pipes are fitted with traps and hatched and inspected daily. It is apparently amazing how many match those claiming asylum at passport control.

NutLoose
1st Nov 2016, 13:19
Anyone without documentation should be allowed to remain on UK territorial shores until the documentation is located at which point that should be deported back to whence they came.

I cannot see any reason why they couldn't be housed in say

South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Georgia_and_the_South_Sandwich_Islands)

Plenty of capacity to take most of them, until they find their documents or are processed.

Evanelpus
1st Nov 2016, 14:05
Statistics from Iraqi immigrants to Sweden has shown about 80% of them arrives without any kind of identification documents. Customs sweeping the ferry found passports identifying about 40% of these persons clogged in toilets and the like. The rest of the papers have possibly been thrown into the sea - there has been occasions where beach goers have found the "missing documents" washed ashore. As you probably deducted, plenty of the existing documents was not of Iraqi origin.

The overwhelmingly and largest problem in Sweden has been the illegal lone coming boys who "happened" to lose their papers should they get caught by customs or police. Many of these boys roam the streets, begging, harassing women in the public swimming pools, shoplifting and conducting petty theft. After a gouvernment intervention many of these twats were found to originate from Morocco.
Now, Morocco refused to take them back unless Sweden invested money in Moroccan stuff - I do not know exactly what they wanted done, maybe some sand dune removal? so there was lots of angry faces here up north. I do not know what happened to those twats, but I sure hope they got back to Morocco. If they can beg and shoplift up here they might as well be of some use moving sand dunes down there.

GOD I sound like a full flegded racist. I promise you I am not. I am just utterly fed up with this pampering to stupid people. In this case, the stupid people are those who flush their passport down the toilet and the Moroccan gouvernment who wants to blackmail Sweden in order to take care of its own citizens.

......and, sadly, the citizens of the UK can expect exactly the same when they come here unless you subscribe to the views of a few bleeding heart liberals who want to accept them who think they will be model citizens.

papajuliet
1st Nov 2016, 15:29
The migrants aren't stupid. They're crafty, conniving liars. It's the naïve, gullible people who let them into their countries who are stupid.

KelvinD
1st Nov 2016, 16:52
If their original country balks
Have you really thought that through?
"Where do you come from"?
"Syria"
" Hello Syria, here is one of yours"
"Really, since when did Syrians appear so Chinese/Afghani/Pakistani etc in their appearance"?
Bottom line WhatsaLizad, Molemot was right and you are totally way off the mark.

WhatsaLizad?
1st Nov 2016, 19:24
KelvinD,


I was generally referring to large percentage of economic migrants. Obviously, there would be cases of dealing with refugees from legit war zones. It would be a little difficult scheduling a deportee flight into a village between Damascus and Aleppo. ;)


My comments are directed to those that think there is nothing that can be done if they arrive without papers and lie about their origin. There is a way and the problem is going to get far worse and destroy Europe in the long one unless real deportations start.

DirtyProp
1st Nov 2016, 23:10
Have you really thought that through?
"Where do you come from"?
"Syria"
" Hello Syria, here is one of yours"
"Really, since when did Syrians appear so Chinese/Afghani/Pakistani etc in their appearance"?
Bottom line WhatsaLizad, Molemot was right and you are totally way off the mark.

Well, we can certainly do it with the boat people, since we all know which coasts are departing from.
"Hello libyans, here is one of the boats that came from your coasts. Either you take them back, or you will find some high-explosive devices dropping over your houses.
Your choice."

Clare Prop
2nd Nov 2016, 02:39
If it hadn't been for the explosives Gadaafi would still be there making sure they didn't leave.

KelvinD
2nd Nov 2016, 06:34
I have been thinking about this. My family having originated in the area of what is now Wales and the Welsh/English borders with just one addition from the North East of Scotland, I suppose I could join in with the "refugees out" brigade and say to an awful lot of my fellow countrymen: "And you lot can bugger off too". That would give us Britons plenty of space once we had shipped out all those descended from the Danes, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Belgians etc.
On the other hand, we could just do what we have been doing for over a thousand years; just accept those who rock up on these shores and get on with life. I would bet around 90% of the British members on here would be descended from foreigners. As would 100% of the Aussie & American contributors.

DirtyProp
2nd Nov 2016, 08:41
Great idea.
We should tell the French at Calais to stop complaining and get on with life.

I'm also sure the Native Americans would agree wholeheartedly with you.
Funny thing is that if they resisted the settlement of uninvited and unwelcomed people on their land they are hailed as heroes.
If we Europeans do the same, we are branded as racists.

Trossie
2nd Nov 2016, 08:49
Funny thing is that if they resisted the settlement of uninvited and unwelcomed people on their land they are hailed as heroes.
If we Europeans do the same, we are branded as racists.Those two sentences sum up the entire problem accurately.

WhatsaLizad?
2nd Nov 2016, 14:42
KelvinD,


Do you believe a country like the UK should accept any number those who "rock up on the shores"?
Should your country take all that show up? If 1,000,000 show up in the next year, please state how your fellow citizens are going to support them and the additional 2,000,000 the following year.


Here in the USA, we admit over 1,000,000 of legal immigrants each year who have gone through the proper process. For a country our size, I support this and it is maintainable. What I don't support is the illegal immigrants in greater numbers that are creating ghettos and crime exactly like those they left in their home countries.


Just because it makes you feel good doesn't make it the right decision over the long term.

Andy_S
2nd Nov 2016, 16:51
On the other hand, we could just do what we have been doing for over a thousand years; just accept those who rock up on these shores and get on with life.

Trouble is the world has changed a lot in the last 50 years, let alone the last 1,000. The world has shrunk. Transport is quicker, more efficient and more abundant. Long distance communication using portable devices is commonplace. Basically, it’s a lot easier to facilitate the movement of large numbers of people over longer distances in a comparatively short period of time than it ever used to be. So I think the days when we could blithely welcome anyone who happened to ‘rock up’ on these shores are over. Because there are a lot more of them, and we have a lot less room to accommodate them.

KelvinD
2nd Nov 2016, 19:52
At the start of WW1, UK took in something like 250,000 refugees from Belgium alone.
In WW2, there was another huge influx of refugees, including over 100,000 Jews. Tens of thousands of Vietnamese were accepted into UK in the 1970s, along with thousands of East African Indians. And, last time I looked, the sky has not fallen in. Australia, to their credit, took in 70,000 Vietnamese refugees who have been acknowledged as being huge contributors to the Australian economy etc.
However, I was not arguing that the UK should blindly accept any and all. I have made the point before that people fail to differentiate between economic migrants and refugees. But even that was not my argument here; it was the blind, uneducated stupidity of people advocating sending people to "some country", presumably because they look like a specific nationality. Or threatening Libya with the dropping of high explosives on your house. Was that poster related to Curtis Le May, perhaps?

WhatsaLizad?
2nd Nov 2016, 20:54
uneducated stupidity of people advocating sending people to "some country", presumably because they look like a specific nationality.


Interviewing people and determining with good reason as to their origin is not uneducated stupidity. It is possible.


Yes, the threat of bombing is internet yapping.

DirtyProp
2nd Nov 2016, 22:32
But even that was not my argument here; it was the blind, uneducated stupidity of people advocating sending people to "some country", presumably because they look like a specific nationality. Or threatening Libya with the dropping of high explosives on your house.
Being the blind, uneducated stupid poster that I am I reiterate the fact that criminals should be treated accordingly.
And the libyans are not behaving in a nice, reasonable way at all.

The huggy-fluffies and do-gooders with OPM instead, are running around like headless chickens tripping over themselves about what to do and which dictator to bribe AFTER their open border policy has created the biggest [email protected]@k of the century.
They found one in Turkey already, and pretty soon others will follow.

And next time some women get raped by those "poor migrants" somebody should tell them that the sky has not fallen in and to get on with their lives.
Maybe we could spin their experience as character-builder.

seanbean
3rd Nov 2016, 01:36
Satirical Post of the Week - Album on Imgur (http://imgur.com/gallery/6mxqV)

Blacksheep
4th Nov 2016, 14:38
I would bet around 90% of the British members on here would be descended from foreigners. Certainly. The Vale of York was populated by invading Danes (aka Vikings) and Saxons and the village and town names show they lived side by side. As to where the Britons went I don't know, but one suspects they were simply "absorbed".
I guess you could say we were economic migrants who arrived without papers. In those times the sword was mightier than the pen. ;)

My brother has our family tree researched back to 1645 at which time we were congregated around Thirsk and Topcliffe with a source group in the hamlet of Boldron just outside Barnard Castle.

meadowrun
8th Nov 2016, 06:32
Later this week we will be commemorating the sacrifice of those who fought for Britain. This year is particularly poignant because it marks the 100th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme, one of the bloodiest encounters of World War I.
On the first day alone, British forces suffered 57,000 casualties. Many of the dead and wounded soldiers were teenagers, some as young as 16.
Between 1914 and 1918, more than 250,000 boys under the age of 18 served in the British Army, many having lied about their age to join up.
Recruiters turned a blind eye, despite many of the volunteers looking as if they hadn’t started shaving. The youngest authenticated soldier was Sidney Lewis, who enlisted in the East Surrey Regiment when he was just 12 years old and fought at the Somme the following year.


Hundreds of thousands of young men crossed the Channel to join the bloody fray because it was considered the patriotic thing to do. These days the passage of men of military age is all in the opposite direction as ‘refugees’ flood across Europe trying to enter Britain.
Plenty of them succeed, too, even though they really should have no legal right to come here. We’re all well aware of the racket which has allowed male migrants in their 20s to be given sanctuary by pretending to be 16 or under.
Now we learn hundreds of Albanian men arrived here illegally last year posing as child refugees. Half of them had their asylum applications accepted and were placed with foster parents.


Documents uncovered by the Mail on Sunday also show they’ve been given school places, even though many of them are obviously over 18, which has created ‘safeguarding issues’ and put other pupils at risk.
Another study highlights the problems caused by some of these so-called ‘children’, primarily their behaviour towards women. Social workers put this down to the ‘gender assumptions of Albanian males’.
So that’s all right, then.
It has also been revealed that once accepted as genuine, they are entitled by law to be treated as ‘children in need’ and must be cared for until they are 25 if they stay in full-time eduction. Taxpayers have to pick up their university costs.


What kind of madness is this? Set aside the fact that we shouldn’t be taking in anyone from Albania, unless they have a job requiring special skills and are capable of supporting themselves financially.
When did the state start regarding grown men of 25 as ‘children’? When I was 25, I was married with two kids and a mortgage. More to the point, millions of men have fought and died in wars well before they reached that age.
Ever since the migration crisis began, I’ve been drawing attention to the fact that most of these ‘asylum seekers’ are fit young men about whom we know nothing. They all claim to be fleeing conflict.
But if their home countries are so dangerous, why haven’t they brought their female relatives with them? Where are their mothers, sisters, aunties and nieces?
What kind of man runs away to safety, leaving the women behind?
And why should we be expected to give them house room, full board and lodging and pay for their education until they are 25?
Even to ask these questions is to be labelled a heartless racist by the hand-wringing classes. But that doesn’t make the problem go away, nor does it provide an adequate answer. Imagine if during the two world wars, most of the able-bodied young men in Britain had turned tail and boarded the first boat to America, demanding asylum.
Precisely. They’d have been shot as deserters.


In another lifetime, boys lied about their age to join the military and serve their country.
Now grown men are lying about their age, pretending to be children, and travelling across continents so they can seek a safe haven in Britain.
And, more fool us, we’re letting them get away with it.
If the teenage heroes of the Somme could see what kind of insane society our nation has become, they’d wonder what the hell they had been fighting for. Richard Littlejohn.

MrSnuggles
8th Nov 2016, 10:15
meadowrun

This is what is happening in Sweden. The imigration agency has FINALLY realised this as a problem so now they do forensic scans of all "child refugees" ESPECIALLY those coming alone. A surprisingly big number of those are found to be at least 18, some upwards 25.

I am mad at this. During the war we took in jews, Finns, Danes, Poles, whathaveyou. Those were our neighbours and those were in obvious distress. Also, they had their papers in order - except for the jews but they could just show that godawful tattoo.

I am leaning more towards a "no papers - no come" attitude towards the people coming today. Work immigration to Sweden - absolutely no problems because then you have your papers! Some UN allocated refugees - fine, I trust the UN to do the right thing.

But having ships full of clogged toilets and lying people trying to con their way to Sweden instead of rioting where they live that's just unacceptable.

Looking at the history, Swedes had nowhere to run when we were treated badly by our gouvernment. So my ancestors stayed and they fought and they reformed and turned our country into this decent place we have today. I do not think that deceitful conmen should use this for their own means. We changed our society. They can do it too. Somehow I get the feeling they rely on the US to intervene and "better" things and when that doesn't turn up as they planned (when has it ever?) they just run for the nearest exit - Europe.

And now they demand separate swimming pool times for women because it is inappropriate for women and men to blend.

WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL IS THIS?!!

(I'm guessing you British people know all too well what I am talking about.)

Cazalet33
8th Nov 2016, 10:48
I agree with Snuggles.

Legitimate bona fide refugees with appropriate credible documentation who abide by all immigration rules are a separate matter and are actually quite rare.

The illegal immigrants should be treated as de facto criminals and incarcerated in spartan prison camps indefinitely, and subsequently deported when/where practicable.

No papers: no entry.

Metro man
8th Nov 2016, 12:36
During the war we took in jews, Finns, Danes, Poles

People who were grateful for being given sanctuary, did their best to fit in, didn't expect to change the country to suit themselves, obeyed the law, contributed and either assimilated or went home when things were safe in their own countries.

And you thought Somalis, Eritreans, Sudanese, Afghans etc would behave in the same way ???

skydiver69
8th Nov 2016, 13:02
People who were grateful for being given sanctuary, did their best to fit in, didn't expect to change the country to suit themselves, obeyed the law, contributed and either assimilated or went home when things were safe in their own countries.

And you thought Somalis, Eritreans, Sudanese, Afghans etc would behave in the same way ???
Some do some don't. I know one Somali lad who is a special constable with ambitions to join the police full time and others who cause mayhem in and around the city centre and frequently get arrested.

Curious Pax
8th Nov 2016, 13:41
Some do some don't. I know one Somali lad who is a special constable with ambitions to join the police full time and others who cause mayhem in and around the city centre and frequently get arrested.

Both examples assimilating in their own way then!

MrSnuggles
8th Nov 2016, 21:50
I think Cazalet33 summed it up pretty nice. No papers: no entry. Only way for those people is to go through the UN, not rioting in Calais.

I was thinking about what I wrote about my ancestors fighting for their rights and creating the fine country Sweden is today and it hit me you Brits have definitively had it much much harder. You actually fought in the war, we Swedes were only bystanders. You sacrificed. You were bombed, your people famined and yet you endured and did the right thing. You worked together as a people. You won.

I think you Brits have the undisputable right to refuse paperless people entry.

What I do find disturbing is the trend that Polish people are harassed and subjected to mob mentality since the Brexit vote. Did your people not attend class? Did you grandparents not inform them about the heroic Poles that fought along the British? The great Polish mathematicians that cracked the first Enigma code, and gave it for free to the British - this work that Turing evolved into cracking the navy Enigma! Britain has Poland to thank for lots of things. I find it disturbing that Polish people who are there completely legally due to the EU are being treated like pariah.

Now I have been drifting from the subject. Sorry about that.

Metro man
8th Nov 2016, 23:41
There was a pro illegal immigrant campaign in Australia with illustrations of people who arrived by boat and managed to succeed in life, one showed a surgeon.

What it failed to mention was the ratio of those who got on in life compared to those who didn't and ended up a burden on the state or in jail. Australia is still an attractive country to live in and if a surgeon is required there would be little trouble in attracting one through legal immigration channels, compared to letting in a thousand illegals and getting one surgeon and 999 welfare recipients/criminals/terrorists as additional baggage.

Strangely the campaign failed to mention that the terrorist involved in the Lindt Cafe siege in Sydney was a legal refugee.

meadowrun
9th Nov 2016, 02:21
Not exactly, Monis lied through his teeth to get into Australia. If the authorities had known more about the real him, he would not have gained entry. IIRC

Stanwell
9th Nov 2016, 05:33
Correct, meadowrun.
To go further, he and his had managed to cause nothing but trouble since they got here.
A fond acquaintance of ours of ours was killed by him on that day.
Ah, but we must be all-embracing... OK?

vctenderness
10th Apr 2018, 16:16
Shock horror nobody could have guessed this

Two-thirds of 'child refugees' lied about their age and are over 18 | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5592357/Two-thirds-child-refugees-lied-age-18.html)

Well no one with half a brain that is!

Guess none of them will be sent back probably all living in 2 million pound council houses in Kensington by now.

flash8
10th Apr 2018, 23:38
Two-thirds of 'child refugees' lied about their age and are over 18 | Daily Mail Online

And one suspects greater than two-thirds are male.