Delta crew refused to believe black woman was a doctor during emergency

[peekay4]

"Tamika Cross, a Houston OB/GYN, was on a Delta flight earlier this week when, as she explained in a Facebook post on Sunday, she realized a passenger in front of her was clearly in distress." ...

While asking for a physician onboard the plane, the flight attendant refuses to believe that Ms. Cross, a black woman, is a doctor.

"I raised my hand to grab her attention," Cross wrote. "She said to me, 'Oh no sweetie put your hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you.' I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks."

Cross had to explain again that she was a physician — and even then, she said, the flight attendant asked "to see her credentials" — all while the sick passenger was still in need of help.

https://mic.com/articles/156707/delta-flight-attendant-refused-to-believe-black-woman-was-a-doctor-during-an-emergency

https://www.facebook.com/tamika.cross.52/posts/658443077654049

[nonsense]

Plane crew almost lets man die because they refuse to believe black woman is a doctor. | Workplace | Someecards (http://www.someecards.com/life/workplace/tamika-cross-doctor-plane/)

[Rwy in Sight]

Old southern habits do die hard.

[fox niner]

And it has nothing to do with aviation. Would be more appropriate in the Professional Social Studies Rumor Network. (PssRuNe)

[Noxegon]

I was wondering whether this might be a hoax, but having researched it it is apparently true:

Delta Airlines Accused of 'Blatant' Discrimination : snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/13/doctor-says-flight-attendants-refused-her-help/)

[Huck]

Old southern habits do die hard.

Flight was from Detroit to Minneapolis. Likely a crew from one of those bases. But whatever floats your boat.

Huck
The South

[Rwy in Sight]

I was referring to the company culture. Delta has its base in Atlanta isn't.

[Basil]

Could have been a misunderstanding but a BIGOT! RACIST! story sells more copies.
The statement by Dr Cross: "I'm sure many of my fellow young, corporate America working women of color can all understand my frustration when I say I'm sick of being disrespected. " does seem to betray a certain mindset. Jest sayin'

p.s. She can revive me any time she wants ;)

[170to5]

I believe the whole issue was due to unexpected light chop...

[RAT 5]

Was this Delta (major) or a subsidiary 'express' operator? No reason for lower standards of service, but just wondering, as in-house training and company culture might be different.

2ndly, does that operator have any black pilots? I suspect yes. So what would be the reaction to "is there a pilot on board who can save us from disaster?" In the back is a very dark looking training captain on type, but with no licence, who volunteers. What then?

And this in a land where Obama looks much more presidential than Trump. Not as rich, but has more aura & presence.

[beardy]

All of which begs the questions that when the crew ask for a doctor and somebody volunteers, how do they know they have got a real doctor and not a fantasist, and if it goes wrong somehow, who is liable?

[notapilot15]

RA should reinstate himself as CEO for a day and fire the FA for treating a Texan badly, just kidding.

[wiggy]

Beardy

This was discussed recently elsewhere on prune but can't find the thread at the moment.

In short has to be on trust though some docs will have credentials and if comms allow there may be ways for the crew to carry out a limited check via the airlines own medical service provider.

[ATC Watcher]

Looking at the news coming from the US in the last months being black or being a woman is still not easy in the US. The "holywood" stereotype of a MD is still that of a 50+ white male. The F/A probably did not think further. A young black woman cannot be a MD...
Not thinking further seems to be common nowadays , looking at the current US election debate..

[cwatters]

Perhaps she just looks a bit young to be a doctor?

[Turbine D]

Was this Delta (major) or a subsidiary 'express' operator?
Delta Flight 945 is a 1 1/2 hour flight using a 737-900.
And it has nothing to do with aviation.
So it didn't happen on an airplane?

[Airbubba]

All of which begs the questions that when the crew ask for a doctor and somebody volunteers, how do they know they have got a real doctor and not a fantasist, and if it goes wrong somehow, who is liable?

Surely you're not suggesting that someone would falsely claim to be a doctor like these hyphenated surname guys:

Teen accused of being a fake doctor arrested again - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/12/us/malachi-love-robinson-fraud-arrest/)

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/s-fake-doctor-accused-fraud-selling-prescriptions-article-1.2326254

Could have been a misunderstanding but a BIGOT! RACIST! story sells more copies.
The statement by Dr Cross: "I'm sure many of my fellow young, corporate America working women of color can all understand my frustration when I say I'm sick of being disrespected. " does seem to betray a certain mindset. Jest sayin'

And she calls the flight attendant a 'heifer' and then complains about profiling due to appearance. ;)

[G0ULI]

Prefering a male doctor to treat a male casualty is racist?!

[Herod]

Prefering a male doctor to treat a male casualty is racist?!

Oh, come on!! What if there was no male doctor on board? I don't think she was going to have to examine his dangly bits, and even if she was, I'm sure she was professional enough to do the right thing.

[alwayzinit]

To be fair to the FAs all those who claim to be Docs are assumed otherwise ......... UNTIL their identity and qualification has been confirmed, by getting their licence number or ID crosschecked.
To allow anyone to carry out any medical procedure on anyone without being confirmed as a Doc is potty.
Once again offence is taken,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Permafrost_ATPL]

Right, so I'm sure if there had been an article about a young white doctor helping out a sick pax, you would have all taken to PPRuNe to yell "Well they better have checked she was qualified"? Or maybe you wouldn't have?

If you needed any more proof that it's still damn hard to be a black professional in 2016, it's right here for all to see. The immediate assumption that "it must have been a mistake and "bigotry and racism sell newspapers" is as good an explanation as any as to why the likes of Trump can potentially become heads of state. Depressing.

[PAXboy]

You are correct wiggy. It was discussed recently:
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/583282-inflight-medical-emergency.html

[Airbubba]

Delta has posted this update on Facebook:

Delta continues to investigate a story surfaced by Dr. Tamika Cross in a recent post on Facebook.

We are troubled by any accusations of discrimination and take them very seriously. The experience Dr. Cross has described is not reflective of Delta’s culture or of the values our employees live out every day. We are in the process of conducting a full investigation. We’ve reached out to Dr. Cross to speak with her directly, talked with our crew members and we’re reaching out to customers who were on board to gather as much information as we can.

While there is much we can’t share because our investigation involves confidential personnel matters, we do want to share what we can.

Three medical professionals identified themselves on the flight in question. Only one was able to produce documentation of medical training and that is the doctor who was asked to assist the customer onboard. In addition, paramedics met the flight to assist the customer further.

Flight attendants are trained to collect information from medical volunteers offering to assist with an onboard medical emergency. When an individual’s medical identification isn’t available, they’re instructed to ask questions such as where medical training was received or whether an individual has a business card or other documentation and ultimately to use their best judgment.

Is it possible that maybe the 'victim' copped an attitude when asked to produce her credentials?

As one of the Facebook commenters said:

FWIW, I'm a physician and have been on no fewer than 4 flights with medical emergencies, on 3 different airlines including Delta. Every time I was asked for credentials before being allowed to help.

[Flingwing47]

While flying in the ME for a large national carrier, if a doctor was needed, crew had to sight an ID showing that he/she was a medical doctor.
Not a physicist or the like.
Also if they needed to access the onboard medical kit, the procedure was to hold his ID until he had signed off the paperwork. :/

[lomapaseo]

is it not a judgement call ?

If so why try to second guess the intent?

Are we trying to argue for less judgement and more rote to make us feel justified :confused:

[tdracer]

In our current litigious society, I can't imagine a major airline letting someone "play doctor" without first checking credentials - to do otherwise would be inviting a 7 figure lawsuit.
I suspect the young doctor was unfamiliar with the SOP of checking credentials, perhaps got a little lippy about it - when another doctor showed their credentials they were asked to assist the patient - a doctor who just happened to be white and male.
In normal society - a miss-understand solved with a clarification and apology for any perceived disrespect of the young doctor and advice to have her credentials available in the future.
In today's society, where any possible grievance takes on world-shaking significance, add in the aggrieved doctor was young, female, and black and you have the perfect trifecta of ageism, racism, and sexism. Hence it's front page news world wide...:ugh:


We
Are
So
:mad:

[vapilot2004]

Tdracer's post is not without merit. Airlines and corporate entities that deal with the public are under constant threat of lawsuits - many frivolous.

The problem with this case aboard that Delta flight was the slight was just one in likely far too many that this female doctor of color faces day in and day out. When given a publicly witnessed moment where these racist slights were on display, she pushed back. Can anyone blame her?

The fact is, racism is systemic and alive and well in America. You might not notice, however, if you happen to live in that insular world otherwise known as "white society". On the other side of that, Tdracer is correct in pointing out how the media and the public can overreact beyond the apparent 'small offence' against a person of color - likely due to the fact that racism for a black person is like death by a thousand little cuts. There needs to be a happy medium.

[Basil]

Right, so I'm sure if there had been an article about a young white doctor helping out a sick pax, you would have all taken to PPRuNe to yell "Well they better have checked she was qualified"? Or maybe you wouldn't have?

If you needed any more proof that it's still damn hard to be a black professional in 2016, it's right here for all to see. The immediate assumption that "it must have been a mistake and "bigotry and racism sell newspapers" is as good an explanation as any as to why the likes of Trump can potentially become heads of state. Depressing.
If you say so :rolleyes:
You're talking to someone who flew as FO with a top rate black captain over thirty years ago and subsequently had a black head of training in a sister company.
Don't try to stifle comment by playing the race card; that's so passé.

[neila83]

If you say so
You're talking to someone who flew as FO with a top rate black captain over thirty years ago and subsequently had a black head of training in a sister company.
Don't try to stifle comment by playing the race card; that's so passé.

I'm not sure what your point is? You worked with black people so you know everything abour their experience of racism? Or that because you knew a couple of successful black people, racial discrimination doesn't exist?

[PEDMJR]

I've been involved in 3-4 events over the years. Typically crew asks for identification. I give them my license, my business card, and in Texas we get a pocket size copy of our license. i carry that and share it.

[CityofFlight]

I contacted a friend of mine and as expected, they've been instructed to not discuss the case. However, I was able to get him to tell me that during training, they (and probably most other airlines), require FAs to ask for credentials of medically trained pax when a medical emergency is involved. He added that he felt sure, based on the practices of Delta FA & SOPs, that the facts would reveal themselves as appropriate.
I came away from the conversation thinking that it's become easy to use the term racism. And it's a two-way street. It sure has been one sided under the BLM doctrine. Maybe said OB-GYN didn't know protocols and misunderstood the FAs implication that they had a credentialed doctor ready to assess the unconscious pax. Quite possibly no reflection on her skin tone, but on what was required by SOPs, in a timely manner. Am I extrapolating? Yes, you could say that, based on the professionalism I know is required by FAs in major carriers both domestic & int'l. This doctors's description didn't match what I understand the training to be and my friend substantiated that vehemently.
There's my 2 cents. Time will tell. If it happened as described by the doctor, then shame on this Delta FA. And her peers will not support her.

[p.j.m]

they (and probably most other airlines), require FAs to ask for credentials of medically trained pax when a medical emergency is involved.

Can you imagine the outrage/consequences if they did allow a non qualified person to give medical assistance?

This is just another media beatup.

[peekay4]

Re: credentials check.

Here's a couple quotations from the young doctor's original post of what allegedly happened:

A couple mins later he is unresponsive again and the flight attendant yells "call overhead for a physician on board". I raised my hand to grab her attention. She said to me "oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you" I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks.

That doesn't seem like proper SOP for "establishing credentials"?

Later in the flight:

Another "seasoned" white male approaches the row and says he is a physician as well. She says to me "thanks for your help but he can help us, and he has his credentials". (Mind you he hasn't shown anything to her. Just showed up and fit the "description of a doctor")

Again, doesn't seem to fit the "checking for credentials" excuse.

[unobtanium]

I have a friend who is currently in his 4th 1st year med school. Yes, he is in this fourth University, attempting to pass his 1st year meds. His facebook is full of selfies of himself in scrubs, stethoscope always visible, taken from some of his hospital visits. This guys loves talking medical terms, and no doubt would volunteer and identify himself as a 'doctor'. :ugh:

People like this are the reason why FAs should always ask for credentials.

[smiling monkey]

Sometimes, it's hard to believe these old grannies in FA uniforms are your flight attendants on many US airlines.

[Basil]

I'm not sure what your point is? You worked with black people so you know everything abour their experience of racism? Or that because you knew a couple of successful black people, racial discrimination doesn't exist?
My POINT, neila, is using the race card to prevent people from commenting.
You made it very eloquently for me.

[evansb]

Hey smiling monkey, your comment is kinda troll-like, and ageist. Many captains, and a lot of co-pilots are also probably grandparents..

I am pretty sure that all the cabin crew involved have worked with black colleagues and have served black customers for years. It is quite possible some of the cabin crew have had (or do have) black supervisors and/or managers. To accuse the personnel involved in the incident with overt racism is quite possibly an over-reaction. To be involved in front line customer service for an international airline and simultaneously hold deep racist positions must be extremely counterproductive.

[underfire]

Reality check:

In the US, the whining neurotics get press, the person treating the patient does not.

Film at 11.

peekay.. is this all 'according to the person claiming discrimination', or the actual reality of the situation? How does this person know if anyone showed credentials, and I dont see anywhere that the 'victim' said she showed hers.

While asking for a physician onboard the plane, the flight attendant refuses to believe that Ms. Cross, a black woman, is a doctor.

"I raised my hand to grab her attention," Cross wrote. "She said to me, 'Oh no sweetie put your hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you.' I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks."

Cross had to explain again that she was a physician — and even then, she said, the flight attendant asked "to see her credentials" — all while the sick passenger was still in need of help.

Medical liability in the US, and for the airline, and for that matter, being a 'doctor' in the US could mean anything. Cred rules, bs drools.

Tamika Cross FB page.

https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/13232880_596142483884109_4235095407719395248_n.jpg?oh=74253a d11d957d72574523e07c21344e&oe=589D7FF0

why ask for credentials?

[wiggy]

Not sure about the US but dare I ask what exactly are people expecting a doc to present when asked for their "credentials"? A business card with "Doctor" on it proves nothing.( and as mentioned in the other thread in some circumstances a para medic may be more use than a doc)....

[RAT 5]

In UK a Doctor's letter can often be used as authentication of your ID. It can also be used to skip school or work. Who authenticates the anonymous doctor?

[TURIN]

Ye gods.

Is anyone actually suggesting that she should not have shown her credentials? No.

If she is sat behind the patient, and is the first in line to offer help, it is at that point the FA should ask for credentials. By the account quoted above, she wasn't asked and was repeatedly dismissed.
Whether that is because she looks too young or because she isn't white remains to be seen.

Ageism and racism are not big problems in the world are they?:rolleyes:

[Basil]

Ageism and racism are not big problems in the world are they?
Well, at my age, these schoolboys maquerading as policemen and pilots are a worry . . . ;)

I remember guys going solo in a jet who didn't yet have a driving licence.

[Permafrost_ATPL]

Don't try to stifle comment by playing the race card; that's so passé.

Haha, classic. Never ceases to amaze me how people think they can win an argument about racism by just stating "you're playing the race card". Well done Cicero!

[NWA SLF]

It was an A-320, Delta, not one of its subsidiaries. A neighbor of mine, white male, 65 years old, recently responded to such a call on a Delta flight and no questioning of his credentials. His credentials are impeccable, ER certified trauma physician, but beside the point - elderly white male and no questioning his credentials. But that's America.

[Skipname]

I think asking for the volunteer's credentials it's standard practice across the industry.

In my airline we have a policy where the FA must ask the volunteer for credentials before allowing them to assist. If they fail to show any credentials the captain must be notified and he or she then decides if the FA are to allow the volunteer to assist.

If the volunteer shows credentials then they are allowed to take over and the FA are to assist them anyway they can. If the volunteer fails to provide any credentials and the captain decides to allow them to assist the FA is still in charge and the volunteer is not allowed to give the casualty any medication.

[PENKO]

Stop the (almost racist) nonsense about credentials and read the actual account. No credentials were asked:

(...)A couple mins later he is unresponsive again and the flight attendant yells "call overhead for a physician on board". I raised my hand to grab her attention. She said to me "oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you" I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks.

But go on, blame the victim. One of you even posts a picture of said black woman. Well, I see a picture of a young female. She could be a nuclear scientist, doctor, pilot, anything. What exactly are you trying to say by posting that picture?

[sitigeltfel]

Were there witnesses to this conversation between the Doctor and the CC?
If so, where are they?
Somebody must have heard something?

Delta say three people came to assist, but only one could present proof..

A message about allegations of discrimination on a recent Delta flight | Delta News Hub (http://news.delta.com/message-about-allegations-discrimination-recent-delta-flight)

[Ian W]

There are times when panicked people - even flight attendants need firm handling.
A couple mins later he is unresponsive again and the flight attendant yells "call overhead for a physician on board". I raised my hand to grab her attention. She said to me "oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you" I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks.

A firm talk over the other person statement not brooking any interruption -

"I AM A DOCTOR" holding their gaze and saying over whatever they are saying loudly so that 3 rows ahead and behind hear what is said:
"Did you understand that? - I AM A DOCTOR do you want professional assistance with your sick passenger or not?" .
Then smile and get up and say "Let's see what the problem is..."

There are times when you just have to take control.

This is of course immediately grist for all those claiming various 'isms' ... remember the old saying "when you point your finger at someone three of your fingers are pointing back at you".

However, this looks like an authority gradient possibly due to a female flight attendant being a few decades older than the doctor. An authority gradient the doctor was unwilling to overcome. (Junior first officers have let senior captains crash aircraft because of authority gradients).

[Spooky 2]

Take this for what i's worth:

Here's a reply posted on Facebook by one of the other doctors that attempted to assist with the ill passenger on that flight:

From another post:

"Is it my fault that this story would actually come up in the middle of my work day? I never expected this to show up on social media. I'm sorry if I don't walk around with items and trinkets from my latest trip! Be for real.
Anyway. I was 5 or 6 row behind the couple in trouble. Dr. Cross did stand up and start to get out of her seat. She was confronted and asked for credentials. Just like her, I don't carry anything that proves I'm a doctor either. Yes the patient was having what appeared to be a seizure. He did float in and out of consciousness. The stewardess asked Dr. Cross for credentials. Dr. Cross became extremely belligerent. Throwing her hands in the air and sounding extremely unprofessional. If I was a patient, her behavior would have scared me. In today's world....would you want some nut that claims to be a doctor taking care if you. Before I go on. Let's talk about Dr. Cross's attire. She looked sloppy and unkempt. A very good reason for the stewardess to question if she was a doctor. Not a black or gender issue at all..... as a side note. I rebuild cars in my time off. My hands are greasy, holes in my clothes. I wouldnt expect anyone to believe that I'm a doctor. But I don't have that kind of ego to get upset about it. Either accept my word that I'm a doctor or screw off. I don't care! I'm not the one dying. But go turn this into a racial issue is a scum move.
Anyway. They overhead called for a doctor. Me and another man got up. He did in fact have a DEA and an NPI card on him. I didn't and neither did Dr. Criss. The doc that tended to the patient didn't have any experience in ER or trauma. But he did his best. Dr. Criss was screaming up the isle on what he should do. It was a disgrace. She was calling the stewardess names and telling the doctor helping the patient that he was useless. The whole time making smug comments about his ability. Dr. cross thinks that just because she may be a doctor that everyone around her must bow down. And don't go against her or she will blame it on racism... good lord this country is in trouble. Enough said."

Also, DAL is one of the most "progressive" companies in the US. Many of their pilots are black and way back in the late eighties many has achieved management positions in flight ops sp for those poster that want to throw stones at DAL regarding their social responsibilities I suggest you name any other airline in the world that has done more.

To bad problem child that thinks she is Gods gift to the medical profession cause such a storm. Probably had a "Don't Shoot" T shirt on under her other rags.

Personally, I'll take an EMT over any OBGYN when I need real help.

[Airbubba]

The stewardess asked Dr. Cross for credentials. Dr. Cross became extremely belligerent. Throwing her hands in the air and sounding extremely unprofessional.

Let's talk about Dr. Cross's attire. She looked sloppy and unkempt. A very good reason for the stewardess to question if she was a doctor.

The doc that tended to the patient didn't have any experience in ER or trauma. But he did his best. Dr. Criss was screaming up the isle on what he should do. It was a disgrace. She was calling the stewardess names and telling the doctor helping the patient that he was useless. The whole time making smug comments about his ability. Dr. cross thinks that just because she may be a doctor that everyone around her must bow down. And don't go against her or she will blame it on racism... good lord this country is in trouble. Enough said."

Thanks for sharing this additional account of the alleged 'racial incident' Spooky 2. I found it odd that the media would so readily embrace the original version of events without further investigation.

[tdracer]

Oh come on now, we all know no one ever exaggerates or stretches the truth on social media :rolleyes:


While there is certainly racism and sexism out there, blowing questionable incidents like this into the headline just serves to cheapen the claims of those who have actually suffered :ugh:

[giggitygiggity]

@underfire

Tamika Cross FB page.

https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/13232880_596142483884109_4235095407719395248_n.jpg?oh=74253a d11d957d72574523e07c21344e&oe=589D7FF0

why ask for credentials? I assume you have posted this Doctors picture along with 'why ask for credentials?' because you feel that it is hardly surprising that they didn't believe she was really a doctor based on her appearance?

I suppose you're making that assumption based upon her lipstick, hipster glasses, jewellery, braided hair and general 'ethnic' appearance. I completely agree that anyone claiming to be a medical professional should have their credentials duly scrutinised (even if it's a 60 year old white man with a white lab coat, beard, stethoscope and briefcase), I fear you have just posted her picture to make some sort of prejudiced point regarding her appearance.

Apologies if I've pre-judged you and misunderstood the sentiment of your post, it just seem a bit of an odd thing to put in a thread on pprune, doesn't it?

[peekay4]

Thanks for sharing this additional account of the alleged 'racial incident' Spooky 2. I found it odd that the media would so readily embrace the original version of events without further investigation.
Actually, it's this alleged post by the "3rd doctor" which so far cannot be verified.

The post was made anonymously on several aviation-related forums, always attributed to someone else on "another thread" or "another post".

[vapilot2004]

I remember guys going solo in a jet who didn't yet have a driving licence.

Proud to say I was 17 years old when I soloed in a PA-28 with no driver license in my wallet.

[neila83]

Quote:
Thanks for sharing this additional account of the alleged 'racial incident' Spooky 2. I found it odd that the media would so readily embrace the original version of events without further investigation.
Actually, it's this alleged post by the "3rd doctor" which so far cannot be verified.

The post was made anonymously on several aviation-related forums, always attributed to someone else on "another thread" or "another post".

And to be honest, if it is true, it makes the guys sound like a massive douche. Not too sure about his writing style for a doctor.

To those who have suggested it, I haven't seen anyone 'play the race card'. Such a tired cliché. I love all these people who bang on about political correctness and offence seekers ruining the world; usually the same people who absolutely lose their s**t if someone dares not sing the national anthem or somesuch. Such fragile darlings.

[obgraham]

Well if the "doc" referenced in Spooky's post above prefers an EMT to an ObGyn, that's his privilege. An EMT, however, encompasses a whole range of skills, and is not the same as a paramedic. I'll take the Doc, thanks, whatever color.

That said, I in fact am an ObGyn, and have responded to 4-5 calls like this over the years. Never once been asked for any credentials (and don't in fact carry any). 2 of those calls involved a pregnant lady, the others the usual fainter or bellyache.

In my cases, and others I have watched, usually a couple of docs volunteer, everyone confirs, and someone most qualified goes ahead. If they don't want my help, I really don't care -- that's on them.

To me, in this instance the Delta staff screwed up in handling this young doc, and owe her an apology. If she in return acted like a twit, then "fie" on her. She's going to have to develop a whole lot thicker skin if she wishes to succeed.

[PersonFromPorlock]

I found it odd that the media would so readily embrace the original version of events without further investigation.Investigating 'a good story' may render it unusable. Why go to the trouble and expense of verifying it, when the best result is that you can use it - which you can already do - and the worst, after all that effort, is that you can't. Either you gain nothing, or you waste everything.

Remember, 'news' is the filler that goes between the ads. All it has to be is cheap and entertaining.

[Basil]

Spooky 2, Interesting - if true.
Pity that this sort of news item brings out the Sir Galahads and Don Quixotes of the world wearing their escutcheon of Liberal jihad.

Look at me. I save maidens in distress.

Respice ad me. Nisi quia virgines in tribulatione. (Ain't Google wonderful)

[cooperplace]

my wife is a medical doctor, and a frequent flier. Many times on longhaul she's volunteered when there's a call for a doctor. She's never been asked to show credentials, which is good because she doesn't carry any. On one occasion she saved the airline a fortune because she advised the captain that the plane didn't need to divert, which advice he gratefully accepted. On another occasion she wasn't needed as a cardiologist and an ER doc had beaten her to the patient. She finds the airlines enormously variable in their responses. Sometimes it's rudeness: "you're not needed any more, go back to your seat" all the way thru to upgrades, air miles, gushing thanks. With no apparent relationship between the value of the medical advice (for she obviously never bills) and the gratitude displayed. She thinks that a firm policy, eg, "must show credentials" would be silly: most docs don't carry them, and how are flight crew qualified to instantly assess all the different forms of medical credentials? As an experienced physician she is accustomed to taking command when this is called for, and in aviation situations this works just fine. She also thinks that some airlines could improve their performance by refraining from rudeness to doctors who offer to help, and making some effort, however small, to say thank you. Make of that what you will.

[Basil]

On one occasion, I had a newly qualified doctor on the flight deck, an HF call to company in the UK with a 'phone patch to a medical advice unit in the USA.
Diverted to Boston to offload patient and used discretion to proceed to destination Orlando.

[beamender99]

cooperplace.
I think you sum up the situation well.
My daughter is also a doctor and on flights with various carriers has responded to several calls for a "Medical" doctor.
She does not carry medical ID but always offers her UK doctors registration number to allow the crew to contact the ground if they decide to check her credentials
She too is used to being in command and I feel sure would soon resolve any situations that might occur with crew.
I have seen her in action at a medical emergenvy in the street and was more than impressed.

[notapilot15]

@cooperplace

That is norm almost all the time, at best they have access to run credit card purchases, there is no way to actually validate so called Doctor's ID. Folks are making up rules to justify the behavior.

Grannies with rolling pins doesn't fit the mold of a normal flight attendant, but we accepted that as a fact even though fans and marketing agencies of every other airline making fun of us. So it is inappropriate for an FA to judge an young black female on her qualifications.

About liability, what would have happened patient dies because FA blocked services offered by medical professional because she didn't like the looks. Airline will pay heavily.

[40KTSOFFOG]

Put out a request for a Doctor many years ago now on a flight to TFS! One duly volunteers his services. Only problem was he was a Doctor in Geology!
I kid you not!!!

[Biggles78]

I don't think she was going to have to examine his dangly bits
Oh don't be silly, TSA would have already done that. :ooh:

[aterpster]

In the U.S., physicians, other medical professionals, dentists, attorneys, etc., are licensed by the individual states. In California, at least, I know that certified public accountants are issued a wallet card every two years, which shows both status and currency of the license. Seems the same should be done for physicians. That would make it easy for the physician to prove his/her status.

[obgraham]

Seems the same should be done for physicians. That would make it easy for the physician to prove his/her status. My state does in fact issue such a card. So what? There's no need for me to carry it when I'm off to visit my grandbaby. And yes, the ground-based aviation folks could check a doc's credentials, as it is public information in most states -- but it takes time, not something to be done while CPR is contemplated.

[aterpster]

The thread topic is about a physician on an airborne airliner. That is the "so what."

[HEMS driver]

Obgraham, a paramedic is an EMT-P. There are also EMT-I and in some jurisdictions EMT-II. "EMT" is more of a generic term.

[Trim Stab]

It is not "racist" to take into account skin colour when judging a situation.

For example, if you are on a dark street late at night, and at one end a group of three black youths are walking towards you, and at the other end three white youths are walking towards you, it is clearly sensible to walk towards the white youths since black youths carry out a disproportionally large amount of street crime.

Given that the percentage of young black females qualifying as doctors is considerably lower than the percentage of young white females or males qualifying as doctors, it would seem perfectly reasonable to be sceptical. If, however, the person produced evidence that they really were a doctor, but the airline refused to let them help, that would most certainly be racist.

[DirtyProp]

Put out a request for a Doctor many years ago now on a flight to TFS! One duly volunteers his services. Only problem was he was a Doctor in Geology!


Might be useful for kidney stones....:}

What about telling the guy/lady that the airline will check their qualifications, and if they pretended/lied about them they will find themselves in very deep doo-doo?

[topgas]

In my experience, CC are always appreciative of doctors' offers of help. The standard "thank you" on UK airlines seems to be three of those small bottles of bubbly, surreptitiously slipped to you in a plastic bag. They do usually take details, and as already stated, they have access to ground medical advice.

[desertmedic322]

As a long time lurker I've registered solely to speak on this matter. My particular subspecialty is CSAR, and have been a Certified Flight Paramedic in the US for many years. Have provided assistance on more than one flight as I often work out of the country. 2 incidents come to mind:

1st: Page for medical providers, respond with the call button. Am asked for my credentials and proof. After provided locate gentleman who needed assistance while having a heart attack. Individual was a senior cardiologist at a major US University Hospital. After he briefly passed out and I carried him to the galley, and requested additional assistance, several physicians came. All had specialties completely unrelated, when they asked what my specialty was I stated emergency medicine. The cardiologist/patient pulled me close and said "if you tell them you aren't a dr and let them take over I will sue you." Emergency diversion somewhere in the North Atlantic and I won't disclose further for patient confidentiality. US carrier.

2nd: Same call for medical providers, respond with call button as requested. Elderly female with pre-existing cardiac issue. Bottom line nobody told her how to adjust her oxygen for the decreased cabin altitude. After requesting FA to obtain current and expected cabin altitude from the flight deck I ran the calculations and turned her O2 up to accommodate cruise cabin altitude, her symptoms resolved and flight was continued to destination. Oh yeah, they asked for my credentials and proof before I was taken to the patient. ME carrier.

In both cases the airlines "online medical control" was contacted, provided with my thoughts, and concurred.

Please do not take this as anything saying I'm any better than average at what I do. My point is both times I was asked my licensure level and specialty, along with a request for proof. Particularly in the lawsuit happy United States (I'm American) not asking for evidence of actual medical licensure could cause some massive problems, never mind possibly kill someone in need of legitimate emergency care.

Maybe there is something missing but failing to follow instructions (push call button) and taking issue with being asked for proof of being a medical provider does not strike me as racist. But then I'm just a man "of color" if that is how one wants to describe a "minority" such as myself.

[evansb]

This tread is about a case of perceived racism by an hysterical female passenger. Nothing more. Move on.

[pilot9249]

The inherent authority of a medical professional in the face of someone needing urgent medical assistance is absolutely enormous. Almost indescribably so.

This hapless FA would have to be so incredibly racist to let that interfere, that frankly she would have been locked up by her teens if it was true.

I think this young doctor needs to consider why she herself was unable to assert her vast natural authority with at least as much vigor as she is complaining about the response of the FA.

[Basil]

CC have a great deal of authority delegated to them by the captain who, of course, outranks anyone on the aircraft.

[underfire]

I think this young doctor needs to consider why she herself was unable to assert her vast natural authority with at least as much vigor as she is complaining about the response of the FA

Exactly...also notice that on her facebook page, she is an avid supporter of black lives matter, not that there is any bias here. In reading through the news article, it seems that the crew did eventually acknowledge she was a doctor and she appears to have provided some assistance. It looks like she just didnt like the amount of FF miles they offered. So the attitude seems to be with her, not the crew. Then of course, her 15 minutes of fame by facebook.

Bottom line, the crew is responsible, not whoever said they are a doctor.

[Dufo]

Perhaps more carriers could offer something similar to what Lufthansa has established:
The ?Doctor on board? programme - Lufthansa ® United States of America (http://www.lufthansa.com/us/en/Doctor-on-board)

[PENKO]

Come on gentlemen, it's not about being asked for credentials and you full well know it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

She said to me "oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you" I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks.
Then overhead they paged "any physician on board please press your button". I stare at her as I go to press my button. She said "oh wow you're an actual physician?" I reply yes. She said "let me see your credentials. What type of Doctor are you? Where do you work? Why were you in Detroit?"

But go on, pretend that this colored woman was offended just for being asked for her credentials.

[aterpster]

Penko:

Is there independent authentication of the flight attendant's remarks or are we just taking the doc's word for it?

[Genghis the Engineer]

It looks much more like ageism to me. A late middle aged woman calls a child "Sweetie ", not an adult.

I don't dispute either that racism exists or that Dr Cross is black. But there's nothing in the terminology described that sounds particular racist?

[tdracer]

Genghis, I was thinking the same - the lady's Facebook picture does look rather young to be a doctor.
But go on, pretend that this colored woman was offended just for being asked for her credentials.
Hate to burst your bubble Penko, but the phrase "colored woman" is considered racist...

[T28B]

Is there a reason that this thread is not in the Cabin Crew sub forum? I ask because this looks like an interaction between cabin crew/FA and a passenger who was trying to offer assistance. I note that the title of the thread simply says "crew" which is more inclusive of all crew, whereas the actual interaction was with FA/Cabin Crew.


Maybe the CC frequenters can shed some more light on this sort of interaction. I am uncertain if the flight deck was ever involved in this encounter.


To desertmedic322: great post, and thanks for your candor.

[PENKO]

Aterpster, that is not the point at all. She may be exaggerating, lying, or telling the truth.
But don't you think it's rather telling how we go on and on about credentials (or the lack thereof which is not proven either!)? We pontificate that the lady should have shown her credentials when the whole point is that she was not even given the chance to do so!

Some here even go out of their way to show that this lady has herself to blame, based on a picture from her Facebook account? Come on gentlemen.

So what were you asking me again?

[PENKO]

Hate to burst your bubble Penko, but the phrase "colored woman" is considered racist...
Congretulations.

[Momoe]

Once bitten, twice shy!

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/it-happened-again-another-delta-flight-crew-cant-believe-a-black-woman-is-actually-a-doctor-205952003.html

[HEMS driver]

Y'all need to look up the meaning of "racist" in a credible dictionary.

[Momoe]

OK,

For the sake of argument, let's call it stereotyping.

Does this make it any more acceptable, no. Is it racist, yes.

I've seen a couple of non-committal paragraphs from Delta PR, but nothing resembling a full blown apology.

Shame on you Delta

Last laugh will be the lawyers, methinks

[Lonewolf_50]

Momoe: let's see what Delta has to say further, once they complete their internal investigation of this incident.

[aterpster]

wiggy:

Not sure about the US but dare I ask what exactly are people expecting a doc to present when asked for their "credentials"? A business card with "Doctor" on it proves nothing.( and as mentioned in the other thread in some circumstances a para medic may be more use than a doc)....
A wallet size license card issue by the state medical board.

As to paramedics, my son-in-law is one. There isn't a whole lot he can do except by instructions from the ER physician via radio link.

[Basil]

the lady's Facebook picture does look rather young to be a doctor.
Doctors, firemen, pilots, police - They all look young to me :{