Pioneer and Twin Pioneer

[134brat]

I am currently researching the Prestwick Pioneer and Twin Pioneer with a view to putting together a combined history of the types. So far it seems that production lists and individual aircraft histories will not be too difficult to come by but I am trying to avoid producing a dry, boring list of facts and figures.

My hope is that there are some veteran PPruners out there willing to share some anecdotes (verifiable) or images of the types in service which will give a more immediate feel to the story of what I feel were underrated aircraft which deserve to be remembered.

I would be very grateful for any stories, images or tips which come my way. All original material will be treated with care and returned with the minimum of delay.

Thanks & regards

[sycamore]

Try the `Mil Forum..

[evansb]

http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/pioneer.jpg

http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/raj%20awali%20twin%20pioneer.jpg

[sycamore]

Try a search on herre for `Sharjah`,as I think there were quite a few references and pics...

[barry lloyd]

I imagine if you can find anyone who did the delivery flights (especially to Malaysia), they might have some interesting stories to tell, perhaps with maintenance and training, too. Neither were known for their range...

[QuePee]

I dont know about the Twin Pioneers but certainly the single engined variety were shipped to the Far East by sea. When I was at RAF Seletar, 1961 to 1964 I was in the 17th Singapore Scout Group and we were gifted a "Pioneer Box" by the RAF to use as a secondary storage room and scout hut. It was basically a large box painted in a grey colour and I clearly remember it still had the shipping details stencilled on the side. I would strongly suspect that the Twins were also shipped this way as well.
Always used to enjoy watching them and the Beverleys doing circuits, I can still hear them now........must be an age thing.

QP

[Stanwell]

QP,
If you wish to be reminded of the sound of a Twin Pin's Leonides, have a look at the Tube of U under 'Twin Pioneer at Wedderburn'.
That one, VH-EVB, is an ex RMAF one.

[papa_sierra]

I attended one of the open cockpit evenings at the RAF Museum at Cosford a couple of years ago. (To be recommended, really enlightening).
Most of the open aircraft had an attendant to explain and answer the inevitable questions.

The Twin Pioneer had as an attendant an ex RAF NCO who had served on them in the Far East and regaled us with tales of the aircraft being fitted with a very high powered loud speaker system. It would appear it was to be used to transmit propaganda to the bad guys below but was in fact never used for that.

It was however used as a very good taunting system on the other resident squadrons to good effect. Ribaldry from the skies !

No doubt an email to the museum would uncover the gentleman.

[Mike Flynn]

Back in the 1980's I had my aircraft radios maintained by the late Doug Hooper at Gloucester Staverton.
There was an old Twin Pin sat next to the tower.

Anyone know what happened to it?

[navstar1]

Bradwell is your man. See posts RAF Sharjah. Also if you go to the 152 Squadron web site some very good info.

[DaveReidUK]

Back in the 1980's I had my aircraft radios maintained by the late Doug Hooper at Gloucester Staverton.
There was an old Twin Pin sat next to the tower.

Anyone know what happened to it?

These two derelict Twin Pins were broken up at Staverton:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisengland/27258462116

but in 1978.

[JW411]

navstar1:

I think you mean "brakedwell" not "bradwell".

[QuePee]

As a 12, 13 year old I can clearly remember the Skyshout Twin Pins. A few days before Christmas each year, they would climb out of RAF Seletar and spend the next hour or two at relatively low level flying over the married quartets and hiring in and around the camp playing carols at high volume.

Nothing to do with this thread but I also remember as an even younger lad, the Skyshout Pembroke's at RAF Eastleigh in Kenya. I have some photos somewhere.

OK back onto Scottish Aviation's masterpieces.

QP

[treadigraph]

Twin Pin G-APRS was still being flown by Air Atlantique recently - is it still airworthy?

I believe an over-enthusiastic test pilot hauled the prototype Prestwick Pioneer off the runway at one of the 1950s Farnborough shows, somehow badly damaging the elevators in the process. A fairly hasty circuit was followed by an uneventful landing!

[Rosevidney1]

The prototype Single Pin was woefully underpowered until they re-engined it with the Leonides.

[barry lloyd]

I dont know about the Twin Pioneers but certainly the single engined variety were shipped to the Far East by sea. When I was at RAF Seletar, 1961 to 1964 I was in the 17th Singapore Scout Group and we were gifted a "Pioneer Box" by the RAF to use as a secondary storage room and scout hut. It was basically a large box painted in a grey colour and I clearly remember it still had the shipping details stencilled on the side. I would strongly suspect that the Twins were also shipped this way as well.

Not all of them, hence my comment. As a young spotter, I remember seeing two of them one day when I rounded the terminal building on a wet afternoon at Speke. Photo in post below:

Perhaps, as a result of the early flights, it was decided it was better to crate them and send them by sea.

[Stanwell]

treadigraph,
The last I heard about Twin Pin G-APRS was that it had mainspar issues.

[Planemike]

Twin Pin G-APRS was still being flown by Air Atlantique recently - is it still airworthy? Sadly, it is not currently airworthy.

I believe an over-enthusiastic test pilot hauled the prototype Prestwick Pioneer off the runway at one of the 1950s Farnborough shows, somehow badly damaging the elevators in the process. A fairly hasty circuit was followed by an uneventful landing! 06 September 1952..........Same afternoon as John Derry & Tony Richards lost their lives in the deH 110 accident..... The tail plane struck a loudspeaker tower as the aircraft took off.

[barry lloyd]

I dont know about the Twin Pioneers but certainly the single engined variety were shipped to the Far East by sea. When I was at RAF Seletar, 1961 to 1964 I was in the 17th Singapore Scout Group and we were gifted a "Pioneer Box" by the RAF to use as a secondary storage room and scout hut. It was basically a large box painted in a grey colour and I clearly remember it still had the shipping details stencilled on the side. I would strongly suspect that the Twins were also shipped this way as well.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/tango15_photos/68888b6b-cdb2-45c4-a1d7-991b663168d3_zps1bqznz7c.jpg

I have this dated as 21/04/1962 at Speke. Maybe they were 'boxed' later, but I know for sure that this was a delivery flight.

[QuePee]

Barry,

I cannot speak about the Malaysian aircraft but I do know that there were quite a few Pioneer boxes lying around at Seletar in the early 60s so at least some of the RAF aircraft were shipped by sea.

QP

[evansb]

Utilitarian to the max! Larger wheels would have made it even more utilitarian. Can you imagine a float/seaplane version? I can.
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/Gtwinpioneer-2_1.jpg

"Route of the Orient Star": http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/PI-C434.jpg

[megan]

We have one of the twins operating in OZ still.

Twin_Pin_Page (http://www.dhc-2.com/Twin_Pin.html)

The BHP mining company operated one, maybe two in Western Australia from 1961 until I don't know when.

Couple of others in museums.

[evansb]

Thank you megan for providing superb photos of the type.

[treadigraph]

Thanks guys, let's hope there is the will to get Primrose airborne again. She appeared at Biggin a few years ago along with ost of the Air Atlantique fleet. I remember seeing one or two of the Flight One fleet out and about in the 1970s.


I did wonder how the Farnborough Pin managed to damage its elevator! I've seen pics of a Porter standing on its tailwheel (also at Farnborough I think) but the elevator was well clear of the tarmac.

[DaveReidUK]

I remember watching the famous Twin Pioneer bicycle demonstration (where its very low takeoff and landing speed is illustrated by being overtaken by a bloke on a bike).

Fittingly, it was at Prestwick (though the highlight of the show was the Albatross doing a RATO):

http://www.linton-gin.com/pics/prestwick_67_in2.jpg

[Bigt]

Don't forget JFA (John Fisher Airlines)....operated 2 from Portsmouth Airport for a short time around 1971-73. I recall one was painted bright red, not sure on the other ones colour. Replaced by a BN Trislander

[DaveReidUK]

Don't forget JFA (John Fisher Airlines)....operated 2 from Portsmouth Airport for a short time around 1971-73. I recall one was painted bright red, not sure on the other ones colour.

That's one of the two in the photo in post #11.

Their other one was a sort of orangey/yellow.

[navstar1]

Correct my mistake!!

[navstar1]

I remember on the Twin Pin OCU at Odiham cars on the A30 would reach Basingstoke before us when outbound to the West on the NDB!

[oldpax]

78 Sqdn had twin pins at Khormaksar,think they were fitted with "guided missiles",well air to ground fly by wire things!!

[Herod]

When I was on Wessex, we shared the OCU at Odiham with the Twin Pins. In the low-flying area there were a number of fields where the farmers were happy for us to land. I recall one day, whistling round a copse, planning to land in a "small" field, only to find it already occupied by a Twin Pin! Super little aeroplane.

[navstar1]

It certainly was a great little aircraft. Had a most enjoyable first tour on them at RAF Sharjah 152 Squadron B flight.Did what it said in the brochure!

[oxenos]

Evansb " Larger wheels would have made it even more utilitarian."

You beat me to it. I cannot believe the size of the wheels. ( Castors? )
A look on Twin pin images on google comes up with two photos of aircraft on their noses. No doubt there were others.
On any sort of rough or soft strip it must have been a nightmare.
Anyone know why the designers opted for such small wheels?

[evansb]

Yup. Pratt & Whitney's and bigger wheels would have made this aircraft a WORLD RENOWN bushplane. http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/twinpioneercc2_raf_xl993_07_rafmcosford2013.jpg

[Herod]

Pratt & Whitney's and bigger wheels would have made this aircraft a WORLD RENOWN bushplane

But then you'd have to call it a Twin Otter.

[Stanwell]

evansb,
The Series 2 Twin Pin was produced with the P&W R1340 Wasp for certain markets.
That Philippine Airlines example pictured earlier would have been one of those.

The surviving 'BHP' one in Oz mentioned by megan would be VH-AIS (Australian Iron and Steel).
That's been sitting for years rotting at the side of an airstrip in Queensland due to ownership/ financial problems.
A real shame, considering it had had a real lot of money spent on it not long before that.
No doubt a suitable offer would secure it on an "as is, where is" basis.

[evansb]

Sweet! I love this forum. The information I gleen from this forum is priceless. Pprune is the best.

[Tarq57]

...Anyone know why the designers opted for such small wheels?
Clearly to cut down on parasite drag.;)

[Tankertrashnav]

I dont know about the Twin Pioneers but certainly the single engined variety were shipped to the Far East by sea.

A few years ago I had a shop selling militaria which was a magnet for ex military types.

One day I had a very interesting chat with a chap who had delivered a Pioneer (single I think) to Singapore, by air. The flight consisted of 2 or 3 Pioneers and a Piston Provost or two which were heading for Pakistan. I don't remember the route in detail but range limitations and political considerations dictated a very circuitous route, which went South to North Africa, skirting the Sahara and crossing to the East Coast, then along the coast for a short sea hop over to Aden. Then up the coast to the Gulf, over to Pakistan where the Provosts were dropped off, and then across India and eventually down Malaya to Singapore. I have no idea how many flying hours were involved, but I seem to recall the whole flight took around 35 days, including rest stops, etc. Not much quicker than the ones which went by sea, I should think!

What an adventure, but I suspect probably something enjoyed more in retrospect than at the time!

I had a flight in a single Pioneer of 209 Squadron from Seletar to an up country strip in Malaya. To demonstrate the low speed capabilities of the aircraft the pilot put down both full flap and the leading edge flaps, which made the cabin interior quite dark! We followed the path of a main road at about 1,000' at around 30 knots, watching the cars below overtaking us. I think the stalling speed with everything down was 19 knots, but I stand to be corrected on that.

[megan]

Stanwell, just for background, the BHP office at Whyalla was the holder of the aircrafts registration, and she operated from Derby out to Koolan Island (always referred to as Yampi within the company) iron ore mine.

[Stanwell]

Thanks megan.
I understand that the original BHP/AIS series 1 gave years of satisfactory service in the remote and rugged areas of NW Australia.
After it came to grief, the only viable replacement was seen to be another Twin Pin, the series 3, VH-AIS, mentioned earlier.

[Mike Flynn]

It is the OP's aircraft I remember at Staverton. Where is it located now?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5157/14574294385_6dcfcba42a_b.jpg

[DaveReidUK]

It is the OP's aircraft I remember at Staverton. Where is it located now?

Reportedly in storage (in a dismantled state?) along with other members of the Air Atlantique Classic Flight at Compton Verney (Warwickshire).

[treadigraph]

'ZHJ is/was stored by Air Atlantique for spares, presumably at Coventry. The nose in the pic looks like LN-BFK which was likely scrapped for spares at Staverton.


Also recollect pics of a Twin Pin, probably at Farnborough circa 1960, that had "Elephant's Ears" on its wingtips, presumably some sort of aerial survey kit. Can't see anything immediately on line

[DaveReidUK]

'ZHJ is/was stored by Air Atlantique for spares, presumably at Coventry.

Yes, it was previously in store just off the airport (fittingly, at the former Alvis works).

[papa_sierra]

I do remember a couple of Twin Pioneers parked up at Shobdon. Some interest here - Air Pulford - Twin Pioneer XM285 / G-AYFA (http://airpulford.com/twin_pioneer_xm285__g-ayfa)

(Is Neville Martin still operating, always had some interesting stuff?).

[brakedwell]

I never experienced any problems with the "small" wheels, having landed on soft sand many times. One of our Tin Pins nosed over on Sir Abu Nu'ayr Island after an embedded rock caused a swing and it nosed over when the pilot braked too hard while correcting it. The Twin Pin in photos 3 & 4 show the distance covered in a flapless landing.

The flaps and slats were inoperative (locked up with blocks of wood jubilee clipped into the runners). The reason - sand clogged up the Hydro/mechanical Heath Robinson bicycle chain and cog mechanism until a chain snapped. It happened twice to me when the flaps and slats were retracted after take of, one side came up and the other didn't move! Quickly reselecting T/Off F/S saved the day. It was the only near serviceable Twin Pin at the time and the aircraft was urgently needed to support and re-supply the SAS operating in South Oman, so we flew it for two weeks in this condition. What nobody realised was that the only auto hydraulic bleed was in the flap/slat system. The brakes became more and more spongy and before landing the pedals had to be pumped to build up pressure. After several days this began to lose it's ineffectiveness, so I took the aircraft to Bait al Falaj for the Airwork to look into the fading brake problem and they discovered the auto bleed was idle. After landing the brakes failed completely and we ran off the end of the runway, rumbled slowly down a shallow incline and ended up in the Colonel Smiley's back garden. No damage done, fortunately. After that we had to visit Bait every three days for Airwork to bleed the brakes.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/152%20Squadron%20Bahrain/XM939broken_zpsd0aa4077.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/152%20Squadron%20Bahrain/TwinpioneerXM939wing_zpsb392230b.jpg

Soft sands no problem.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/152%20Squadron%20Bahrain/TinpinSOman.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/152%20Squadron%20Bahrain/TPSASOman.jpg

[brakedwell]

134brat. This 8mm film I took during 1959-61 shows the Twin Pioneer at work in Muscat and Oman. During the two years I flew it the old girl never let me down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3cnU-6YcPs

[tornadoken]

August 1958, I watched a Ceylon AF Pioneer, on acceptance test at PWK, stalling speed being less than prevailing headwind, so hovering for a minute or so, seriously steep descent, landing roll about one length.

[DaveReidUK]

Cannot fail to agree with previous comments, but add my regret that Britain's Aviation Industry failed to make the most of the Shorts Skyvan.

The main problem with the Skyvan was that every one of the 150 or so was essentially hand-built, and consequently very difficult for Shorts to sell profitably.

[tornadoken]

#58 Jenkins: World Renown. At >900 sold and now back in production, Twotter is estimable. I am voluble in criticism of UK Aero's lethargy in seeking out oddbod buyers in the boondocks...but Short's sheds were an exception. 149 Skyvan, 141 SD330, 165 SD360 not shabby. None sold to UK Govt., some sold with UK Aid, most sold by going out there and scavenging.

To 1989 UK Govt. owned Shorts and accepted accountant's assessments of "loss" as being acceptable in the interests of a United Kingdom with distinct issues in N.Ireland. DHC was a Canadian Crown Corporation off-and-on, 1943-1992: so neither Twotter not sheds stood on own feet as products dependent on nimble customers. From 1992, Bombardier (a Quebec specialist vehicles business) owned both Shorts and DHC, and chose to Improve the Regional Aircraft line at DHC, and to do other things at Shorts.

I observed Shorts 1984 sale of 8 360 to China: some were placed in Wuhan, then a backwater. The deal was done by ex-Britten Norman Islander marketeer David Dixon, who understood Product Support to an extent then abnormal for Brit aeronauts. He caused his employer to be seen to care.

You are of course right....that if more UK folk had shown more care...this was the sole simple reason for Fokker selling 786 F-27 in terrain where others feared to tread.

[barry lloyd]

Tornadoken:

I have to take issue - at the expense of a slight thread drift - with your assertion that UK Aero whoever they are or were was lethargic in seeking out buyers in the boondocks. As one who was employed to sell British aircraft around the world, I can assure you that this was not the case. 748s to Madagascar, The Marshall Islands, Guyana, The Azores. 146s to The Faroe Islands, Uzbekistan, Bhutan. 125s to Russia and Turkmenistan. These were just the successful ones - there were many which came to nought after months of trying. There are many on this forum who, with due respect, could not find half these places on a map. There was nowhere we feared to tread - I even went to Cuba a couple of times - but many places where we wished we hadn't. I have just written a book on this very subject!

[safetypee]

Barry, I would like to hear more about your book; you may have invited me to fly to some of the 'unlikely' candidate airfields.

As for the Twin Pin, I only managed one flight, which was best described as requiring the skills of an organist with all the 'stops' and lever manipulation.
It's complete speed range appeared to be less than the landing speed of a previous type.

[brakedwell]

The Dart Herald was another commercial failure, nice to fly, but only 40 built. I attended a dining in night at RAF Northwood in 1961 when Sir Frederick Handley Page gave a rather bitter speech. HP had refused to join two new consolidated Aviation Groups, BAC and Hawker Sddely I think and the Herald had been side lined in favour of the HS 748/Andover for the RAF.
Back to the thread. The speed range of the TP in the Gulf area was 45kts to 85kts, 90 if you managed to close the cooling gills a bit.

[Mike Flynn]

Looking at all those pictures the Twin Pin would have been better with big wheels and tyres like the DC3?

[134brat]

Grateful thanks to everyone who has been kind enough to reply, particularly brakedwell, megan and barry lloyd. I have a whole lot more to work with now and will be following up many of the leads.

I am reliably informed that the Pioneer accident at Farnborough happened because the pilot had been demonstrating the ability of the aircraft to get airborne across the runway and caught the elevator on a light at the runway edge.

Re. the wire guided missiles: The Twin Pin did use them operationally but there were also trials with the Nord AS30 on the Pioneer, images of which can be seen in the Hikoki publication Flight testing at Boscombe Down, The Cold War Years. The book is still available to buy but only at silly prices!

[CNH]

I've one story to tell about the Twin Pioneer, but it's a rather sad one.

Apparently some CCF cadets went up for an Air Experience flight in one - I think the year was 1966, and the airfield may have been Odiham. At the end of the flight, they got out of the aircraft, but one of them turned the wrong way - into the propeller, which was still rotating.

[pppdrive]

I do have 1 picture of a Twin Pioneer at Hervey Bay Airport, Queensland some time during 1991-1995. Unfortunately I can't tell you anything about it or even the Registration but if you'd like a copy of the picture email me on tiplerpaul1 (at) gmail.com

[noflynomore]

If small wheels were seen as a disadvantage one imagines they'd have looked at alternatives. Designers do their thing and come up with their idea of an optimum before any customer has had a chance to try it - if it isn't changed perhaps it wasn't necessary.

Adding drag and weight to a Twin Pin probably wasn't going to be popular no matter what else it improved.

[brakedwell]

We used to land the Pembrokes with much smaller wheels on soft sand strips. Only once did I get into difficulties, caused by the nose wheels digging in and forming a bow wave of sand. We had to use half a dozen passenger seat cushions to form a "taxiway", rotating them forward until I reached a firmer surface. Happy (hot) days!

[HarvestReaper]

I was an E & I fitter on 209 Sqdn at RAF Labuan 1965/66. We operated two Twin Pins and Three Single Pins. Twin Pins ferried out to Labuan under their own steam but Single Pins came either gift wrapped in the freight hold of a 34 Sqdn Beverly or courtesy of kipper fleet carrier.
From all accounts landing a Single Pin on a carrier was fun as the carrier had to slow down to a reasonable speed otherwise the Single pin just hovered over the deck.

[l.garey]

Re treadigraph's mention on post 44 about G-AZHJ, there is a fin at the Al Mahatta museum in Sharjah supposedly from it, although labelled G-APLW. https://sites.google.com/site/lgarey/rafsharjah%2Calmahattamuseum

[Cornish Jack]

During the early/mid 60s, the Bangkok AA's Devon was off-line in Seletar for 6 weeks and we were loaned a Twin Pin and crew (Ted Burlow and Jim Garlick?? - super blokes!)) to fill in. The following pics were taken during that period.
This was a visit to Savannakhet in Southern Laos.
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/BillCoombe_025c_zpsx5elyqax.jpg
Next an 'airstrip' in North West Thailand - 'navigation' was interesting to say the least!!
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/BillCoombe_023c_zpsfmuqkgs7.jpg

Same strip
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/BillCoombe_020c_zpsfba0yahw.jpg

This was at Vientiane - PSP runway and parking plus laterite mud underruns!! The TP was polished and shiny for a demo for the Air America 'brass' with a view to possible sales. The demo took place culminating with a really short field arrival in the laterite u/run. The second pic shows the resulting mud coat!!:hmm:http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/BillCoombe_014c_zpshqitu6cy.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/BillCoombe_022c_zpscunfrfqf.jpg

Finally a couple more on unidentified (memory-wise) strips in Thailand/Laos.
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/BillCoombe_021c_zpsdh50w02s.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/BillCoombe_025c_zpsx5elyqax.jpg

Was that REALLY over 50 years ago???

[Stanwell]

Lovely images, Cornish Jack - thanks for those.
I would have thought that AA might have found the Twin Pin particularly suited to their needs in that theatre.
BTW, pic #4 .. Interesting to see a Beech 18 and Curtiss Commando in the background there.

[Cornish Jack]

Stanwell - The TP was splendid for the sort of 'unprepared' strips which were standard in the area at that time but required a dedicated operating crew, whereas the Devon was a 'fly yourself' machine and standardised for most Air Attaches.
Re the aircraft mix at Vientiane, it was quite remarkable - Helio Couriers, Beech 18s, Lockheed Ventura,, C123s, C46, C47, Caribou, Otter et al. A 'spotters' paradise!

[bluesafari]

Harvest Reaper,
Some singles were flown onto the carrier when they were still tied up in Singapore, if underway then the carrier had to almost heave to.
I think we must know each other as I was with 209 at the same time.

[Fareastdriver]

They are the remains of a 209 Sqn Single Pin near Long Sumardo in Sabah, North Borneo. IIRC the terrain angle was even steeper than a Single Pin's angle of climb.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/1-2-2010_010.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/fareastdriver/media/1-2-2010_010.jpg.html)

[ANW]

British operator Flight One used the Twin Pioneer for aerial survey work.
article at this link (http://www.edendale.co.uk/download/index.html)

[Old-Duffer]

There's a story behind post 67.

After the aircraft had come to rest and everybody scrambled out, a senior army officer is supposed to have asked the pilot (M/P Cheesewright) to return to the wreck and retrieve said pongos hat.

When asked why it was so important the army officer is said to have replied: "somebody might want to salute me when we're rescued". Cheesewright, who is no longer with us, is said to have dined out on that story for sometime!

Old Duffer

[134brat]

Thanks to fareastdriver and Cornish Jack for sharing your images. I am very keen to get access to unpublished images of the Pioneer and TP in service but must confess to being clueless about the rules on publishing these.

Can anyone point me to a plain language guide to the legalities of copyright etc. I have some images on the abpic site and have been asked permission for their use in one off occasions. I have always allowed this but I'm not sure how it works with publication.

[Fareastdriver]

You can use my picture of the graunched Single Pin because I took it.

[phil5776]

Hi.
I only joined the forum today on seeing your 2016 post. Are you still interested in this subject
My father M/P Jim Wild, flew Twin pins on 2 tours in Aden during the 60's.
With 78 & 21 squadrons. He finally flew XH992 from Khormaksar to Murraq. on 1967 July 11 to 13.
I Have his log books & can scan some pages if you want.
Regards
Phil Wild.

[134brat]

I certainly am, will send you a PM.

[brakedwell]

Just to add a little interest! I flew this Tin Pioneer down to the desert in South Oman on a re-supply flight for the SAS while on detachment with them at Ibri in 1960.



https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/tpsasoman_612744fb92edb6a718aa1fe862ad4cf197d83528.jpg

[134brat]

Nice to see the characteristically short tracks in the sand from your landing. I bet you were not even trying hard to land short.

[brakedwell]

I remember the flaps and slats were locked in the up position due to sand ingression causing flap failures when operating in the desert. Apart from longer take off and landing runs we discovered the only hydraulic bleed system was in the flap/slats mechanism so we had to go to Muscat every two or three days for Airwork to bleed the system before the brakes failed completely. They were interesting days.

[aroa]

I,ll hunt thru the archive but I have a pic of BHPs Twin Pin VH AIS at Iron Range airstrip is 1958.?
Was a geos assistant scrub bashing on an exploration project for a manganese deposit.
Iron Range was home to US B 24 and B 26 groups in the very early days of WW2, before Port Moresby was secure and everything went to Papua and New Guinea.

[Saint Jack]

RAF Khormaksar, about 1965. I watched a Twin Pioneer taxi past our dispersal and it didn't look right. Then I realised it was fitted with guided missiles - on the brace between the fuselage and mainwheels if I remember correctly. Others that saw it too said the missiles were SS11's. Still at Khormaksar, we all heard a strange noise coming from the airfield and went outside to take a look. A Twin Pioneer fitted with loudspeakers was flying low and slow along the runway with someone onboard calling out the height and speed. We assumed they were trying to determine the optimum height/speed for having a chat with the rebels. Finally at Khormaksar, I watched a Twin Pioneer line-up for take-off into a brisk wind. Brakes "on' and full throttle causes the tail wheel to get airborne. Brakes "off" and the tiny mainwheels make what seemed like 10 revolutions and the whole aircraft is airborne - mucking refarkable.

RAF Seletar, about 1966. On detachment with 66 Sqdn. (Belvedere's) at Batu Pahat with Belvedere's, Wirlwind's, Beaver's, Single and Twin Pioneer's everywhere. Someone calls out, "hey, look at that" and we all look up to see a Single Pioneer hovering, yes hovering, in the air. It was low enough for us to see that he had flaps and slats deployed - again, mucking refarkable. Oh, happy days!

[G-APDK]

A new book on S A Pioneers has just been published by Air-Britain, not seen it myself yet so cannot comment on its content.

G-APDK
Mods - if this post deemed advertising, apologies, then please remove

[aroa]

Correction ...the BHP Twin Pin is BHJ

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

I grew up in Blackpool and there was one that flew in and out of Squires Gate regularly for a while. Probably early seventies

[treadigraph]

I should think that was a Flight One example doing survey work.

[brakedwell]

A friend of mine, who was an instructor at CFS at Little Rissington, left the RAF in the early seventies, joined Flight One and flew a Twin Pioneer all over UK on survey work.

[megan]

Correction ...the BHP Twin Pin is BHJYou were correct in your first post aroa, BHP had two, BHJ was wrecked in a cyclone and AIS replaced it. Our office in Whyalla held the registration certificates.

https://www.goodall.com.au/australian-aviation/twin-pioneer/twinpioneer.html

[teeteringhead]

RAF Khormaksar, about 1965. I watched a Twin Pioneer taxi past our dispersal and it didn't look right. Then I realised it was fitted with guided missiles From No 78 Sqn Saint Jack.

Always a good question to wind up/win beer from Fast Jet Guys:

"Which RAF Sqn flying which type was the first to fire guided missiles in anger?"

Having read about it in 78's F540, an even more amazing fact is that the civilian French maker's reps were on board when the missiles were fired for real.

[Arclite01]

Had a trip in the Twin Pin at Sleap a few years ago and handled the controls.

Was surprised how big it was on the ground, how big it was inside and how slow it flew.

The amount of aileron drag was incredible. The control, forces seemed pretty high (on a par with the Dak almost)

My son was in the back - he had an enjoyable trip (his first flight in anything).

Arc