BBMF Lancaster location

[langleybaston]

I am hoping to give my granddaughter a Lancaster and Dambusters experience on Monday 24th October 2016. She is a VI former with 10 A star GCSE under her belt so needs challenging!

I did an on-line recce and am confused: please is the Lancaster at Coningsby, or is it at Duxford?

Without the Lancaster at Coningsby we would concentrate on Woodhall Spa and the Petwood, with an evening viewing of the film complete with black dog.

We are in extreme S Lincs. Any suggestions for her to visit or see? Scampton is a bit far for a day trip if lunch or afternoon tea are partaken at the Petwood.

many thanks.

[Pontius Navigator]

LB, Don t forget East Kirkby. Their Lancaster is every bit as interesting and there are lots of other exhibits of interest including control tower, pill box, NAAFI etc.

[treadigraph]

BBMF Lancaster is with the Aircraft Restoration Company at Duxford for a major overhaul, flew in last week I think.

[langleybaston]

Many thanks we will check out East Kirkby.

[mopardave]

East Kirkby seconded! A fascinating place with super friendly people too! My wife treated me to the taxi ride in Just Jane. Not far from the Petwood either.......lovely hotel.

[Arclite01]

Actually 2 Lancs at DUX. Plus possibly the IWM nose section if it has not yet gone back to London.

Although if you are in South Lincs the East Kirkby experience is highly recommended.

Regards

Arc

[langleybaston]

East Kirkby and Petwood and the Memorial it is, then!

And the film with black dog in the evening.

Many thanks to all.

[Could be the last?]

If you can, go for the visit on Sat 29th, this year as well as the night taxi of Just Jayne, the fireworks display is set to music! It is well worth the visit.

[NutLoose]

Fireworks Display & Night Run - Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre (http://www.lincsaviation.co.uk/events/Special-Events/fireworks-display--night-run.htm)

[Treble one]

Langleybastion-I may have some good news for you!


Duxford's Lancaster (in AirSpace, not the BBMF one) is open to the public during half term. You can get inside for a look (about as far as the aircraft code letters) fo a short period.


I believe it is open on the 24th at Duxford if that helps? Edit-confirmed-see the link below.


http://www.iwm.org.uk/events/iwm-duxford/october-half-term-the-lancaster-experience

[Pontius Navigator]

LB, also see if you can fit Thorpe Camp in your schedule - home to the RAF Escaping Society (ex-Chatsworth) and lots of other fascinating exhibits. It is not M-S however so need to check.

[langleybaston]

Yes, the excellent Thorpe Camp would be good: we [Mrs LB and I] like it because it is old-fashioned enough to have artefacts rather than idiot boards. But not open on Mondays.

As for Duxford, if she is enthusiastic we could go there when we take her back to mum and dad.

Thanks to all for the ideas, much appreciated.

[NutLoose]

Wherever you go, I hope the weather is OK, don't forget to consult the seaweed or cow tails before you set out. :p

Some very good exhibits at Kirby too, bits of recovered aircraft etc.

[Herod]

Ref the film, don't forget the "ghostly" appearance of a black dog. Near the end, when Gibson is talking to Barnes-Wallace, a black dog moves right-to-left across the field in the background. The film crew were adamant there was no animal anywhere near the set. "Neenoo, neenoo"

[langleybaston]

Cow tails?

I suffered lots of professional courses, even taught RAF aircrew and indeed Met Forecasters, but I seem to have missed the cow tails bit.

This could just be why my hit rate was a tad less than optimum.

Couldn't it?

As for the ghost dog, is this the one reputed to have turned up for the unveiling ceremony for the Woodhall Spa memorial? I suppose one cannot tell with ghost dogs.

[Pontius Navigator]

I thought the cow tail was to do with the time check.

[langleybaston]

In my joke it was a bull, and not its tail either!

[Pontius Navigator]

In my joke it was a bull, and not its tail either!
Bull**** :)

Well poetic licence. Wonder how many young 'UN got it.

[NutLoose]

Call yourself a Met Man, obviously you were never using the full extent of science available to you in forecasting the weather. :p

The World?s Weirdest Weather Predicting Traditions ? Flavorwire (http://flavorwire.com/255053/the-worlds-weirdest-weather-predicting-traditions)


Cow Tail Direction
Before the golden age of storm-tracking, one of the favorite ways to figure out whether to bring an umbrella with you was to watch what the animals around you were doing, rodents or no. Some of these make more sense than others. Seagulls probably know what’s up about an upcoming storm because they fly around and sleep on the ocean. But farmer weather lore is a little bit sketchier. There’s the whole rhyme: “A cow’s tail to the west is weather coming at its best; a cow’s tail to the east is weather coming at its least.” Running out to a field with a compass seems like a pretty inaccurate way to figure out whether to bring a slicker, but the cow tail can serve as a primitive, bovine-directed weather vane. Winds to the east usually mean bad weather ahead. That’s cow science!

[Pontius Navigator]

NL, very good but I detect a fallacy there if you don't have a compass or navigation skills.

[langleybaston]

Well, I have been retired a long time so that modern research on cows' tails and the like has not registered.

On my last mass briefing at RAF Guetersloh [Lightnings 19 and 92, Hunters 2 and 4] the Staish thanked me, wished me well [posted Finningley] and then added "now we can stop adding 5000 feet to your contrail forecasts!"

[Wensleydale]

As for the ghost dog, is this the one reputed to have turned up for the unveiling ceremony for the Woodhall Spa memorial? I suppose one cannot tell with ghost dogs.


One of the local pubs has a ghost dog - it died after having its tail severed in an accident with the heavy pub door. The dog was buried but without its tail which was kept behind the bar as a grizzly souvenir for the visitors. Then, at midnight on the anniversary of the dogs death, an apparition appeared before the pub landlord who was locking up:
"Give me back my tail," said the Ghost, " I can't go to doggy heaven until I am whole again".
"Sorry," said the Landlord. "I'm not allowed to re-tail spirits after eleven o'clock"!

[ShyTorque]

(Sorry, this has nothing to do with Lancasters, but ghost dogs?)

As a very young, pre-school child I remembered often seeing a brown and black haired dog which always lay under my maternal grandfather's chair when he sat in it. It was an Airedale Terrier. I always thought it strange that it never seemed to come out from under that chair but never asked about it at the time or wanted to go near it because I was scared of dogs.

Many years later, as an adult, I mentioned it in passing to my mother, who told me I couldn't have seen it because the dog (which was devoted to my grandfather and always lay under his chair) had died a long time before I was born. She was shocked and amazed that I knew it was an Airedale because it was never talked about.

[langleybaston]

Debrief.

We had a great day on Monday, and spent 3 hours at East Kirkby which is every bit as good as has been said above. Thence to the Petwood for lunch [excellent and reasonably priced], granddaughter finished her meal with a chocolate brownie and cream ................ on to the Dam Buster Memorial, told her about the ghost dog, and then was talked into buying a chocolate brownie pastry "for later".
I took a load of photos and printed them for her to take home.

Just one question please: which variant of 0.5" gun tail turret is installed? It appears to be lacking some lower part, might that be Village Inn?

Once again, thank you.

[Lynxman]

FN82 with two 0.50s.

[Arclite01]

Was the .50 a massive improvement on the .303 arrangement ??, it didn't last long as postwar the RAF quickly went to 20mm cannon in their turrets.

Which generates a second question - was the .50 a slower rate of fire than the .303 and were both of them faster than the 20mm ??

And gun sights - was the turret gun sight standard 'iron sight' arrangement, or a reflector sight or a gyro gun sight of some type ??

Any expert on here know ??

Arc

[Innominate]

Arclite

I'm no expert, but I believe the .303's rate of fire was higher than the .5, which in turn was faster than the 20mm. Turrets were fitted with reflector sights, and possibly gyro by the end of the war.

[izod tester]

The problem with the .303 cal machine guns was the limited kinetic effect they had on impact with the target. .5 cal rounds were more effective and 20mm rounds even more destructive.

A good discussion on weapons effectiveness is at:

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/cannon-or-machine-gun-the-second-world-war-aircraft-gun-controversy.html

[Molemot]

The "Village Inn" referred to by Langleybaston in post 24 above was an automatic gunlaying system....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Gun-Laying_Turret

There was a lot of electronics in Lancasters by the end of the war.

[mmitch]

There is a project underway to return NX611 to flight...
mmitch

[langleybaston]

Thanks for the above. The turret appears to be missing some structure low-down, as if a part or parts had been removed. That is what made me wonder about Village Inn, which had a substantial radar dome.

[Wensleydale]

I think that I may be in a minority of one, but is it a good idea to get Just Jane back into the air at the moment? We already have a flying Lancaster in the Country, and surely it would make sense to keep Jane for future upgrade should anything happen to the BBMF Lanc.


Secondly, Jane makes a great deal of money for the Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre at East Kirkby...if she is airworthy again, then will she stay at East Kirkby, or will she have to move to another airfield? ...I don't see the sense in flying a valuable Lancaster off a short grass airstrip. She currently has treaded tyres which would throw much rubbish into the undercarriage bay during take-off and landing, and the smooth early tyres are no longer available. Even if she does fly from East Kirkby, then public access to her must be affected. Taxi rides must surely be followed by full FOD checks for loose articles that may have been dropped by the paying public? Its one thing to ask customers to remove all loose items from pockets etc, but like the use of mobile phones in the Cinema, there's always some bright spark who knows better. The result must surely be a very limited public access on the ground when compared to current access. Perhaps the plan is to fly paying members of the public to help funding? Well good look with the CAA if that is tried.


My bottom line - as much as my heart says that getting a second Lancaster into flying condition is a good thing, my head says that perhaps now is not the best time to do it.

[mmitch]

There is room for a runway at the museum. A Dakota operates from the shorter grass runway at the moment.
mmitch.

[Wensleydale]

There is room for a runway at the museum.


Waddington's new concrete runway has cost in the region of £35M. I still don't think that it is worth risking a Lancaster on grass!

[Arclite01]

Actually I find taildraggers easier off the grass................

I don't think they would operate her regularly from EK anyway. I do have a lot of sympathy with the earlier post from Wensleydale.

Arc

[Pontius Navigator]

Apparently the maintenance to flight requires many parts to be remanufactured so it will not be a quick job.

Shame about the runway, it was resurfaced around 1964, was 6,500 feet, and one of two emergency landing grounds, I think Ha'penny Green was the other.