deafness in 70/80's Ground Crew

[ExMaintainer]

A question for ground crew.

Recently i decided to have my loss of hearing reviewed after a sinus operation earlier in the year. I have worn hearing aids for over 3 years and i find my hearing is variable from day to day but has improved since my operation.

I was surprised to be told, at certain frequencies, i am profoundly deaf. I was asked if i worked in industrial noise at some point. I worked on helicopters & phantoms, plus anything else that visited, in the 70's and 80's, but always wore protectors and so on.

The people i have seen say this is reason i have so much damage to my cochlears now, including a professor of ENT. I am not so sure. i feel something else is going on. So to that end, how is everyone else traveling with their hearing?

Surely not everyone who worked on aeroplanes is affected in the same way?

Any feedback is welcomed.

Thanks.

[Wander00]

ISTR that Royal British Legion HQ have some experience and expertise in this field. Worth an enquiry anyway.

[ian16th]

Let us know if you get anywhere.

I didn't, I was told I claimed too late.

[57mm]

I worked with F4s from 81 to 86 and Tornadoes from 86 to 2001. Claimed for loss of hearing and was awarded around £3000. Subsequently have developed severe tinnitus in both ears, further hearing loss and have to wear hearing aids both sides.

[DaveReidUK]

Ear defenders in the 1970s were pretty crude devices. I still have a pair somewhere from that era.

[oldpax]

Flew in shacks in 1960/1 without protectors as there were none .Problems with both ears and tinnitus.To late to do anything .Then worked in the power industry for more than thirty years but wore protection almost all the time!!Big Gas Turbines!!!!

[Krystal n chips]

" Ear defenders in the 1970s were pretty crude devices. I still have a pair somewhere from that era.

That's more than a bit of an understatement actually.

The RAF version had "wonderful" glycerine seals, which frequently leaked and were even more useless once the ear defenders were also used as a headset with throat mic.

The civilian versions were even worse, cheap and nasty plastic devices which were purely cosmetic and provided at minimal cost to show the equally minimal compliance with H n S regs.

I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody affected by hearing loss as a result of the inadequacy of these devices.

I was fortunate in that I noted a deterioration in my own very early on in the 80's ironically through watching others turn up the volume on a crew room television to a level I found to be excessive, but which for them was normal due to the deterioration of their hearing.

Thus I invested in a set of personal, quality defenders which have proved their value later in life.

[ancientaviator62]

As groundcrew I worked on Javelins, Hunters and Lightnings. I flew for over 30 years as an AQM/ALM on Hastings and Hercules. So my exposure to noise was extensive. My hearing appears to have held up very well as I do not need the TV etc turned up as my wife does.
I have no idea why this should be but I am not complaining !

[Rossian]

.....a middle aged aircrew person on a ground tour hears (in the bar) that you can claim a war pension for damage to hearing.
As he had flown in rather noisy old aircraft he thought that he would be well in there. So at his next annual medical he mentioned his increasing deafness to the quack.
"Ooer" says the MO best we do a thorough hearing check.
"Oooer" says the MO again "you really are VERY hard of hearing. I'm sorry old chum but I'll have to pull your aircrew medical cat." After a while loss of flying pay followed.
Later in the bar matey says to mates "I thought you got a war pension"
Yes they cry but you don't mention it to the MO until your FINAL medical before you retire. NOT BEFORE!!
He served his last two years in the service sans flying pay!! OOoooer indeed.

That is a true story and it couldn't have happened to a nicer chap.

The Ancient Mariner

[Democritus]

Back in 1993 I was awarded £3500 as a lump sum War Pension by the MOD for hearing loss due to service in the RN as a pilot in the 1960's - I'd also had tinnitus for years. It was time limited for applications and you could almost visualise queues outside the appointed examiner, Aberdeen Hearing Services, as all the ex-service helicopter pilots on North Sea ops tried their luck for a payment.

At that time the hearing loss was not sufficient to lose my civvie pilots licence but now I wear two hearing aids. Funnily enough because I now hear more the effect of the tinnitus is less pronounced.

[avionic type]

Having been in the airline/military at the noisy end of engines for 50 odd years the worst ones were flying in MK1 Shackletons for long periods and been on ground runs of military jets the worst civilian ones were Viscount [whistle]Comet [roar]and the Tridents A.P.U .all before ear defenders were issued by BEA/BA they were in some cases too good we wore them most of the time on the aircraft stands and were more likely to be run over by a truck as we could hear very little wearing them I finished up losing the high range in my hearing and a little deaf but a pair of National Health hearing aids cures most of my problems when I remember to put the things in , old age doesn't help.

[ancientaviator62]

My false friend AKA as my memory may be in play here but I do not recall having ear defenders when I was groundcrew. If they were available the hazards of the flightline would have mainly precluded their use.
As for the aircrew headsets they had very few noise attenuating properties.
A trial was carried out on noise levels in the Hercules in 1991 by a university team and their report said the noise in the cargo compartment was 'equivalent to being in a loud disco whist a pneumatic drill is operated nearby' ! they also said 'it would not be tolerated in civilian use as a workplace/transport environment, even with the use of ear defenders' ! I flew for 30 years in this environment.
Needless to say nothing was ever done to mitigate this hazard during my time although I understand the 'J' model Hercules crews are issued with noise attenuating headsets.

[Null Orifice]

aa62,

I was an engine fitter and was issued with a pair of 'ear plugs' in the late 1960s - I say late, meaning that, by then, the damage had already been done by Shacks, Meteors, Hunters, Javelins, Hastings, and one particularly loud chiefy! These ear plugs were presented in a small metal tube with a rubber cap. When I underwent a crew-chief decompression ride at N. Luffenham, I had the aforesaid tube in the left breast pocket of my b/dress jacket; when the pressure in the chamber started to decrease, I suffered a momentary heart attack (or so I thought) as the rubber cap popped off the tube.
The actual ear plugs were next to useless for the job; at Lyneham in the early '70s, I remember there being a reported 73% (IIRC) or so of engine men having some form of hearing damage.
Those glycerine-filled cushions on the ear defenders left a disgusting mess when they failed, too.

[Background Noise]

You might find that time since leaving is an issue but for anyone else in the same boat get in touch with these guys. They frequent most of the resettlement roadshow/job fairs for those in the process of leaving.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/veterans-uk

[avionic type]

Further to my previous post ,full power runs on the Spey [Trident, BAC1-11]left one with, what did you say?and ringing in the ears

[ancientaviator62]

Null,
I 'retired' from spannering in 1965 so I suspect those ear plugs you mention came after my time. One thing I noticed whilst flying on the Hercules was that some the USAF Herc crews wore earplugs inside their headsets. You may recall that the RAF initially issued a form of cotton wool to pax travelling with us. Only later did the disposable ear plugs make an appearance. I wonder how much effect on the complex noise 'soup' of the Hercules these efforts had. I suppose anything is better than nothing.

[izod tester]

I have tinnitus in both ears and fairly severe hearing loss resulting from working on Comets, VC10s, Whirlwinds, Wessex, Phantoms and Hercules. Being a member of the School CCF shooting team with Lee Enfields and no ear defenders probably contributed too. My medical cat was downgraded when I was 45, but by then I was a staff officer in an office environment.

Claim after retirement resulted in a £2500 disability pension which also qualified me for free Bus and Tube transport in London.

[rog747]

who in UK can you claim from?

deafness

ramp worker 1972-1999
1-11's VC-10's Tridents Viscounts = noisy

we discussed this funnily enough at our BMA LHR staff reunion last weekend how all of us traffic and ramp staff were now pretty much suffering deafness

[ZH875]

Vulcan groundcrew doing see-offs etc , Jet Provest line NCO and Buccaneer's in HAS's. exposure to various Prop and Jet engine noise. Suffer severe tinnitus in both ears and high tone deafness.

Always wore the approved ear defenders and also the yellow EAR plugs when available..

Struggle to hold converstaions in noisy/cramped environments amd if I cannot see the person speaking to me I may well not hear them either.

The wife calls it 'Selective hearing loss'......

[ExMaintainer]

Just been to see my Professor of ENT after an audio test at the local clinic. It appears that my hearing is stable, but still a mystery why i am deaf. I realized that years of ride on mowing probably has something to do with it, even though i have always worn ear defenders. They are variable in quality, and i have just replaced original set with a 38db attenuation (about as good as they get), same my original, but the ear seal has broken. I have found if i wear foam ear plugs and ear defenders the mowing is significantly quieter, as i want keep what i have left.

To all the young fellas, look after it, cos you will miss it when its gone.

Thanks to all for feedback.

[The late XV105]

I wore a borrowed pair of RAF ground crew issue ear defenders at the 1985 British Grand Prix held at Silverstone. I remember removing them because they turned the exhaust notes of the turbocharged engines from merely penetratingly resonant to mind-numbingly painful beyond what I can describe.

[oldpax]

Tinnitus and high frequency deaf in one ear.Worked on most 60s aircraft without much ear protection but then had 30 years in Power stations where it is very noisy!!No chance of any compensation for me!

[pax britanica]

Interesting thread and one which many young peopel should read. I grew up next to LHR in the Trident Caravelle VC10 707B/C era with its constant blend of roars and screams -what life on the ramp was like I can only imagine. I suffer from aprtially degraded eharing at high frequencies parly due to that and aprtly due to spendinn about half my life on international phone calls which were full of hisses and crackles and the like. Was a bit surprised when the doc told me that but he said it isnt only volume/loudness but constanmt repetion of some frequencies even at relativel low levels can imapir detection of those frequencies later on in life. I wonder what thirty years in a 737 cockpit with attendent slipstream noise does to hearing too

What will happen to the under thirties whauwho dont wear ear defenders but ear assaulters i cannot imagine. We all know hearing performance is a very subtle sneaky thing and as the song said you dont know what you got till its gone