AAC Islander and Defender to be transfered to the RAF?

[Wokkafans]

Any idea if there is any truth in this?

https://twitter.com/Gabriel64869839/status/785569312023150592

Harriett Baldwin MP - Member of Parliament for West Worcestershire (http://www.harriettbaldwin.com/)

[Archimedes]

Any idea if there is any truth in this?

https://twitter.com/Gabriel64869839/status/785569312023150592

Harriett Baldwin MP - Member of Parliament for West Worcestershire (http://www.harriettbaldwin.com/)

Written answer today to a question from Kevan Jones:

It has been agreed that the governance of the Fixed Wing Manned Aerial Surveillance Capability will be transferred from the Army to the RAF. Detailed implementation plans, including timescales and the implications for 5 Regiment Army Air Corps, or other Units have yet to be finalised.

[Door Slider]

The AAC student pilots on 45 Sqn at Cranwell were briefed on this over a year ago.

[Mil-26Man]

From Jane's UK MoD looks to transfer Army Defender and Islander aircraft to RAF | IHS Jane's 360 (http://www.janes.com/article/63768/uk-mod-looks-to-transfer-army-defender-and-islander-aircraft-to-raf)

[gsa]

Seems a decent swop, Islanders for Chinooks :-)

[stewyb]

Can see the Islanders/Defenders relocating to Odiham with other Special Forces units and a Chinook squadron or further build up of the OCU moving to Benson

[MPN11]

More importantly, what Squadron Numberplate will be regenerated?

There must be a suitable (AC) or (Recce) numberplate just begging to be chosen.

[Davef68]

What future for permanent Military flying operations at Aldergrove? Or back to RAF Aldergrove?

And the inevitable 'Which (historic) squadron will be reformed' to operate them?

Edit: MPN11 posted while I was typing!

[Davef68]

More importantly, what Squadron Numberplate will be regenerated?

There must be a suitable (AC) or (Recce) numberplate just begging to be chosen.
I'll pitch in first with 20 Squadron!

[MPN11]

That, curiously, was my first thought :)

A lot of AC and AAC* history in the past, for sure.



* Anti-Aircraft Co-operation, not the other lot!

[dragartist]

Why not shove them with 14 Sqn operating the Shadow. they are only little. I think the guys in the back are Army anyway. Are the DA42s still around?

[Melchett01]

Can see the Islanders/Defenders relocating to Odiham with other Special Forces units and a Chinook squadron or further build up of the OCU moving to Benson

Unless you can put another hangar up on the far side of the airfield at Benson I'm not sure how you'd get another Chinook sqn in there; it's already pretty full with the current inhabitants and there aren't that many hangars. Plus, Benson as a whole is a relatively small base, there might need to be a fair bit of work to increase capacity on the domestic side of the station.

A controversial suggestion might be to decide whether there is a continuing requirement for 657 at Odiham; if not, move them in with the rest of the Lynx community and move the Defenders in. However I'd go with dragartist's suggestion and make them part of 14 Sqn. If push comes to shove, once Waddington is fully back up and running and 5 have stopped squatting at Cranwell, you could move 14 into that hangar and have a central location for King Airs and similar types.

[stewyb]

Would they not want to relocate closer to SPTA as Odiham already has regular detachments of Defenders/Islanders? Take your point with 657 and thought there had been discussions previous about moving them out to Yeovilton to join the Wildcat/Lynx population

[Martin the Martian]

How about merging with the Northolt Station Flight and upgrading to squadron status?

[teeteringhead]

There must be a suitable (AC) or (Recce) numberplate just begging to be chosen. An obvious candidate would be 28(AC) surely, Merlins until we gave them to the FAA.....

[XR219]

I believe 28(AC) is now the Puma/Chinook OCU.

Of course, they could just redesignate 651 Sqn AAC as 651 Sqn RAF. It was an RAF unit to start with, after all...

[MPN11]

Good call :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._651_Squadron_RAF

[Underbolt]

Is there any precedent for any squadron being "transferred" (e.g. 400+ to RCAF, 450+ to RAAF, 700+ to FAA) and then coming back to RAF?

[SilsoeSid]

http://www.army.mod.uk/images/central-panel/aac-sireniaBadge284px.jpg

[pr00ne]

Melchett01,

Really don't see how Benson can be as overcrowded aircraft wise as you claim. It has 23 Pumas and 6 Chinooks, surely spread around the 4 huge C Type hangars and the tin T2 hangar that Benson has that leaves oodles of room?

Before the OCU moved in it was home to two bigger Puma Squadrons and the two squadrons of the entire RAF Merlin force, with attached Operational Conversion Flights.

It has swapped the whole Merlin force for 6 OCU Chinooks.

Must be plenty of room.

[MPN11]

Chinook rotors fold, do they not?

[Pheasant]

The statement only said governance. There is no reason why it can't stay Army badged.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

MPN - Nope, no folding heads. You can take them off, but that involves cranes and engineers aplenty every time.

[MPN11]

MPN - Nope, no folding heads. You can take them off, but that involves cranes and engineers aplenty every time.
Oh, poo. Thanks for the info.

[SilsoeSid]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4640_zpsn6evzlhz.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4639_zpsqqzttrbb.jpg

http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/Folded_Blades/Folded_Blades.html

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4642_zps8xf9wdlh.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4644_zpsaxtlabnt.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4641_zpsramyiova.jpg

[Melchett01]

Melchett01,

Really don't see how Benson can be as overcrowded aircraft wise as you claim. It has 23 Pumas and 6 Chinooks, surely spread around the 4 huge C Type hangars and the tin T2 hangar that Benson has that leaves oodles of room?

Before the OCU moved in it was home to two bigger Puma Squadrons and the two squadrons of the entire RAF Merlin force, with attached Operational Conversion Flights.

It has swapped the whole Merlin force for 6 OCU Chinooks.

Must be plenty of room.

pr00ne,

May well be more space than I recall, there have likely been a fair few changes in the time since I sold my soul and disappeared into MOD staff appointments. However, whilst there may well be more hangars now than the 3 hangars we had when I left (only 2 when I arrived - 28 & 33 - with 230 in Aldergrove and not including th UAS/AEF who also had/have a hangar), the realities were different to the numbers on paper. The OCUs were actually Flts on the sqns rather than independent sqns such as 15, so took up no more space than a few offices and classrooms alongside the Sim building. And whilst the Merlin Force was undeniably large with 28 aircraft eventually split over 2 Sqns, I don't ever recall ever seeing a full complement on base. Deployments to the Balkans and then Iraq before Afghanistan meant there were nearly always a handful of cabs away, with another handful on exercise around the place and others in depth maintenance. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say it was rare to have more than 50-60% of the cabs on Stn at any time and then it was a work of art getting them into 2 hangars.

And completely coincidentally, I was talking to a colleague still on the Chinook force a few days ago and as we were talking about real estate he did mention that elements of the operational Chinook force had already considered and dismissed Benson as an option precisely because of hangar space. I have no reason to doubt him, he is far closer to the front line than I currently am.

So assuming he is correct, and hangar space is a critical factor, then I'm not sure where you could put one of the Odiham sqns into Benson. Looking at an aerial photo the site is asymmetrical and there has been clear encroachment over the years onto the west of the airfield by housing developments, and with 2 crossing runways I doubt where you could squeeze another hangar in anywhere else to use both sides. If you need 2 hangars to get an entire sqn under cover, then with 28, 230 and the UAS/AEF on site it would need some juggling to say the least as well as considering domestics.

[Door Slider]

The T2 hangar is home to the Air Anbulance and AEF/UAS aircraft, one type C hangar is home to Puma depth servicing so the only leaves 3 hangars for 230/33 and 28 Sqn.

There really is not much space, TSW looked at moving there too but that was discounted.

[Just This Once...]

Chinook rotors fold, do they not?
Some do, some don't. We came rather late to the folding option but we are slowly embracing it.

[A and C]

The T2 hangar is also not bunded and so in the event of a large jet A1 spill the fuel could not be contained and the fuel would quickly drain into the river Thames, the fact that there is an environmental monitoring station not a mile down the river can't help.
So the T2 hangar is limited to the storage of AVGAS aircraft ( presumably the avgas evaporates before causing environmental damage ) and one small turbine helicopter.

[Trim Stab]

Why not shove them with 14 Sqn operating the Shadow. they are only little. I think the guys in the back are Army anyway. Are the DA42s still around?

The (ex?) RAF DA42s are operating in Libya now. I have seen them at Luqa fitted with EO/IR and an uplink.