Recent Experience Requirements - Night Ops (w & w/out pax)

[mikewil]

Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on the recent experience requirements for private ops at night.

I understand there are requirements for flight under NVFR such as a take off and landing at night in the past 6 months (or 3 take offs & landings in the past 3 months for pax).

However, I can't seem to find any reference to recent experience requirements for night ops under IFR.

Is it safe to assume that even having not flown for many years at night, that a current command IFR rating enables one to fly at night (with pax) even having not flown at night for a number of years?

[A Squared]

It's that way in the US, no specific requirements for night IFR flight, other than obviously you have to be current on night landings to land. I know you aren't asking about the US, but thought I'd throw that out there as a data point.

[mikewil]

in the US, no specific requirements for night IFR flight, other than obviously you have to be current on night landings to land

I'm not even sure if you need to be current on night landings at all here for IFR. I'm hoping someone can point to where in the regs (if at all) it is mentioned.

[avnut]

61.395 (2) applies to all flights, whether VFR or IFR:

The holder of a pilot licence is authorised to pilot, during take-off or landing, an aircraft of a particular category carrying a passenger at night only if the holder has, within the previous 90 days, in an aircraft of that category or an approved flight simulator for the purpose, conducted, at night:
(a) at least 3 take-offs; and
(b) at least 3 landings;
while controlling the aircraft or flight simulator.

[mikewil]

within the previous 90 days, in an aircraft of that category or an approved flight simulator for the purpose, conducted, at night:
(a) at least 3 take-offs; and
(b) at least 3 landings;

Thanks for the reference,

Although it creates the further question of the exceptions to the rule listed below.
(5) Also, the holder is taken to meet the requirements of subregulation (2) if:
(a) within the previous 90 days, in an aircraft of that category or an approved flight simulator for the purpose, the holder has:
(i) successfully completed a relevant check or review;


(6) In this regulation:
relevant check or review means any of the following:
(a) an instrument proficiency check;


Upon reading these regs, I take this to mean that having passed an IPC in the past 90 days (even only during daylight), that I meet the night landing requirements.

Does anyone agree/disagree with my interpretation?

[Ixixly]

mikewil, I think you'll find the key word there is "Relevant", would you say a Daylight flight only would be "Relevant" to doing Night Operations?

[Capt Fathom]

The relevant Check or Review must include a night take-off and landing!

(5) Also, the holder is taken to meet the requirements of subregulation (2) if:

(a) within the previous 90 days, in an aircraft of that category or an approved flight simulator for the purpose, the holder has:

(i) successfully completed a relevant check or review; or

(ii) passed a flight test for a pilot licence or a rating on a pilot licence;

that includes at least one take-off, and at least one landing, at night; or

[mikewil]

mikewil, I think you'll find the key word there is "Relevant", would you say a Daylight flight only would be "Relevant" to doing Night Operations?

As I have copied, they state a list of criteria for which "relevant check or review" relates. One of which is the IPC, plain and simple with no mention of having to do it at night.

[mikekilobravo]

As has been pointed out, at the end of the paragraph you are referring to it states
(5) Also, the holder is taken to meet the requirements of subregulation (2) if:
(a) within the previous 90 days, in an aircraft of that category or an approved flight simulator for the purpose, the holder has:
(i) successfully completed a relevant check or review; or
(ii) passed a flight test for a pilot licence or a rating on a pilot licence;
that includes at least one take-off, and at least one landing, at night;

At the end of the day, if ever in doubt you should refer to the general competency requirement in CASR 61.385 which applies to both licences as well as operational ratings and endorsements.

[mikewil]

So at this stage the general consensus is that 3 takeoffs & landings at night need to be performed in order to carry passengers.

Is anyone aware of any limitation on flying at night under the IFR with no pax? (I know for night VFR, there needs to be one take off and landing in 6 months).

[outlandishoutlanding]

An associated question:

I hold a NVFR and PIFR.

If, at some point in the future, I decide to do a CIR, does that grant me night VFR privileges for 12 months (from the CIR), or does it count as a NVFR proficiency check and give me 24 months?

[Left 270]

OL. Yes under P61 the holder of a current IR is granted the privileges of a NVFR. If it's not current (no IPC) you are now granted a PIFR and night IFR only (as I'm sure you are aware).
Under CAR 5 the PIFR wasn't automatically granted and had to be applied for separate with initial issue or renewal. But I digress.

[Rocket Surgeon]

Good discussion! A couple of (similar) questions if I may...

If I hold an IR (but no NVFR rating) with current IPC and the required night recency - do I ever need to do a NVFR Flight Review?

If I hold an IR, and also a NVFR rating, with current IPC and the required night recency - do I ever need to do a NVFR Flight Review?

Thanks

[Left 270]

RS..

First point no as you don't hold a NVFR but have been granted the privileges of it with your IR

Second point. If you keep you IPC current you will never need your NVFR so no need to review it. As to whether or not an IPC is sufficient for a NVFR review I'm not sure, but with your IPC it becomes irrelevant. I'm sure it covered somewhere within the 600 odd pages. I don't hold NVFR so haven't come across it. Someone else may be able to answer the second point better.

[outlandishoutlanding]

So if I do an IPC every year, I can fly NVFR every year

If I do an IPC every other year, I can fly NVFR the first year, and NIFR only the second year

If I do an IPC and a NVFRPC every other year, I can fly NVFR for the second year.

I think I would rather do my checks annual during the day IFR, than every second year NVFR!

[Left 270]

Bit of extrapolation there which I'll try and clarify, sometimes difficult with a keyboard but here goes.

Line 1. Correct.

Line 2 correct in relation to IR and PIFR. Unsure as to whether the IPC validates a NVFR tho.
IF it did you would be able to do both. As I mentioned I don't hold a NVFR so not my arena.

Line 3 correct.

If you are employed it becomes irrelevant after a bit as you just keep your IR current and will be IFR mostly anyways. If private with an IFR AC, go IFR and it's no longer an issue, if you need VFR the NVFR review may be the most economical option.

[outlandishoutlanding]

Is there a way to fly night scenics as IFR?

otherwise I think I'm safer doing an IPC every year than doing an IPC and NVFR check every two years, and NVFR check isn't as easy to organise.