Qantas pilot uniforms

[Sicofit]

:eek:I watched the hype around the introduction of the new Qantas pilot uniforms and thought this was some sort of joke
It looked like their pilots ,mainly female, participating in the Sydney Gay and Lesbian parade.
The founders of QF would be turning in their graves; there,being led by Joyce and introduced by a black transvestite from the US they strutted out wearing probably he worst uniforms I have seen in many years.
The sooner Joyceis replaced,the better.

[Slezy9]

Whoop Whoop...

Crazy rant alert!

It's hard to tell, but I think he doesn't like the new Qantas uniforms? Or is it that he doesn't like the manner in which the uniforms were introduced? Or perhaps both?

To quote the great Tony Abbot :yuk: , perhaps you should have a bex and have a lay down.

[framer]

I didn't get that from his post Slezy, all I got was that he doesn't like any deviation from heterosexual white males.
As a heterosexual white male I find that offensive :)

[Capn Rex Havoc]

I think it's great- You can go and get Ice creams from them, with their nice white hats. :}

[Jc31]

Pretty damn homophobic rant there

[Keg]

The unveil was about publicity and QF got truck loads of it- far more than they outlaid in costs. They probably score it as a massive win.

[dr dre]

Unfortunately for you sicofit, there's plenty of female, or non-heterosexual, or non-white pilots in qf. And there's also a large number of white, heterosexual male pilots who would vehemently disagree with your comments.
I honestly think if Fysh, McGuiness et al were alive today, they would be too astounded at the 550 tonne monsters flying through the sky to be worried about what uniforms the pilots are wearing or what race or gender they are.

[FLCH]

Pictures ? can't be any worse than the German Sub commanders jig we have at large U......

[Stanwell]

Just think Luna Park concessionaire's outfit and you've got it, mate.
Just BTW, for a limited time only and to the first 100 customers, complimentary nuts on your ice-cream will be provided at the conclusion of every board meeting.
A stick of fairy floss will also be provided to those who can show that they've polished their toenails.
Go, Alan, you're doing us proud.

.

[VHFRT]

And to use a BLACK transvestite! The nerve. Pretty soon they'll want to vote.

[Higs]

Take this crap to the QF thread... Please.......

[1977]

A little off track, but what's with the FAs wearing full wings!these days?

I always thought that an FA was bestowed with a half wing for their role.

My 'full' wings were awarded to me after a lot of training, associated costs, and dogged determination. Keeping them requires no less commitment. I wear them with great pride and they represent that I can indeed 'fly', albeit with the assistance of technology.

While I have great respect for my colleagues down the back, the use of full wings on their uniform does not sit well with me.

[oceancrosser]

A little off track, but what's with the FAs wearing full wings!these days?

I always thought that an FA was bestowed with a half wing for their role.

My 'full' wings were awarded to me after a lot of training, associated costs, and dogged determination. Keeping them requires no less commitment. I wear them with great pride and they represent that I can indeed 'fly', albeit with the assistance of technology.

While I have great respect for my colleagues down the back, the use of full wings on their uniform does not sit well with me.

The "branding" kids today don´t have no understanding of those issues.

[Stuart Midgley]

The smiling publicity shots of crews in the new uniform, taken in front a freshly washed 738 at the SYD jetbase, don't show that just out of shot the QF 767 freighter was conducting full-power engine runs on the test bay only a hundred metres away... there were some very unhappy, un-ear-protected people on that photo shoot from what I saw!

[cattletruck]

When I first came across a herd of them at Changi airport I thought they were a team of Russian athletes heading off to the Olympics.

Then I discovered these Russian Olympic athletes moonlight as Qantas stewardesses.

Very Thunderbird-esque. All Qantas needs now is pilots with bobbing heads and the fantasy will be complete.

[Keg]

QFA F/As have been wearing full wings for more than a decade. I think the previous uniform was introduced prior to 2005 and it came with a 'full wing'.

I once had great pride in the wings I wore. Now that they've become a tool of the marketing whiz kids I've learned to let go.

[RENURPP]

We're all in the same job apparently.
I have been asked several times how long I've been flying by CC, their response is generally along the lines of "I've been flying for(5) years"
Really flying?

[atlas12]

Haha doesn't do much for me!

[mrdeux]

I tried running over the cap with my Land Rover. It didn't improve it at all. Sadly.

[framer]

It might be because they are made of aluminium. You should try a Hilux.

[Derfred]

Keg,

I've learned to let go.

Good on you.

As an outback charter pilot, the only tools of the trade I needed was a pair of cheap DC's when in the cockpit, and an Akubra hat when out of it.

The bling my employer asks me to wear these days is for passenger perception. Otherwise I'd happily don the T-shirt and DC's of old.

The concept of a dicky insignia on my shirt has never made me feel like a pilot, and I worry about those upon who's ego it depends, I really do.

I think the only time my kids have actually seen me wearing wings is when Mum and the kids surprised me at the gate one time. Normally the wings and stripes come off the minute I leave the airport.

Oh, and framer, neither does the badge on my 4wd represent my ability as an off-roader... as I've constantly repeated to all the land rover drivers I've had to recover with my Hilux :)

[Enos]

If it's the same company in Oz that supplied EKs uniform...... Good Luck with it!!

[mrdeux]

The concept of a dicky insignia on my shirt has never made me feel like a pilot, and I worry about those upon who's ego it depends, I really do.

I've found a lovely pair of gold wings that I earnt many years ago...they'll do nicely.

It might be because they are made of aluminium.

It's a Disco 4....I thought they were made of neutronium!

[bpmsmith]

I thought that white crowns symbolised maritime officers?

[framer]

It's a Disco 4....I thought they were made of neutronium!
I was talking about the hat :)

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

Dunno if it reminds me of the Village People or The Love Boat.

Either way, it's piss funny :D :D

[C441]

Dunno if it reminds me of the Village People or The Love Boat.

That's a pity. The designer wanted it to look like this:

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/26t-linda_catch1-c-ta.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=642

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

That's a pity. The designer wanted it to look like this:


Yes, and look at all those girls laughing at it.

[Octane]

I'm a frequent flyer, I want some wings!!

[IsDon]

Yes, and look at all those girls laughing at it.

You mean the ones that are paid to be there?

[dragon man]

So, to confirm the lunatics run the asylum we now have instructions that buttoned jackets must be worn at all times when in hotel lobbies, airport terminals , passenger liaison on board and when traveling to and from home. Additionally the cap will be worn in all above situations except pax liason. However jacket is optional between tropics of cancer and Capricorn or when it's greater than 27 degrees. Idiots!!!!

[hotnhigh]

I need to go and buy a Volvo so that, according to the new policy, I have to wear the hat travelling to and from work.
Hmmm might be time another cricket match..

[dragon man]

Fark it, I'm not wearing that thing on my head, it along with the jacket will spend more time in my briefcase than it will on.

Agreed, so why waste space in the briefcase with it?

[BleedingAir]

However jacket is optional between tropics of cancer and Capricorn or when it's greater than 27 degrees. Idiots!!!!

I know a few guys are wondering which of the lunatics decided that 27 degrees was cool enough to comfortably wear a jacket for the average person. Going to be a fair bit of backlash, goes beyond aesthetics.

[goodonyamate]

"You're harassing me"

Simples.

[got_wheel]

How about the facial hair policy? Mainline aren't allowed beards however Qlink are.. The average punter in the terminal wouldn't know the difference if you stood a pilot from each next to each other (we are getting the same uniform after all) so why the inconsistency?

[hotnhigh]

It wouldn't matter if it was 50 degrees at each layover, a poorly written attempt wrt the definitions, however I cannot think of one sector on any fleet in mainline where jackets aren't mandatory.
It might be acceptable if it's 40 degrees in Perth, to have it off walking to the terminal, but once inside, jackets on.
Also a clever document that enables the stand down provisions to stick if non compliant in any way.
And no.that last bit isn't a joke.

[mrdeux]

Also a clever document that enables the stand down provisions to stick if non compliant in any way.

Going to burn through a few standbys then...

[blow.n.gasket]

Doesn't the WH&S Act allude to 24 Celsius as the magic comfort figure?
Particularly in a safety sensitive position such as a pilot.
Further more , my interpretation of the Act suggests that temperature comfort is a personal thing thus the lack of a truely definitive temperature cutoff figure!
Will be interesting to see the first pilot stood down over this issue!
For example some pilots may feel discomfort at any temperature less than the decreed 27 degrees whilst encased in the new monkey suit and are thus severely temperature stressed thus affecting their ability to perform a safety sensitive job satisfactorily in such circumstances.
Public disobedience campaign anyone?
Would have thought an Act of Parliament ,trumps some clown inspired drivel any day!

[dragon man]

To me that temp is about 16 degrees. Above that I start to perspire. The best description I have heard is that it is a costume not a uniform!!!!!

[Stanwell]

dragon man,
Sixteen degrees?
Where were you raised - southern Tasmania?

Having served as an office building superintendent, I can say that the optimum temperature for workers' productivity is 22deg C.
Relative humidity is also relevant.

Must agree with your "costume" comment, though.

[BleedingAir]

dragon man,
Sixteen degrees?
Where were you raised - southern Tasmania?

Having served as an office building superintendent, I can say that the optimum temperature for workers' productivity is 22deg C.
Relative humidity is also relevant.

Must agree with your "costume" comment, though.

Sorry, but I'm with dragon man on this one. A walk across the carpark in a short sleeved white shirt on a sunny 16 degree day and I'm sweating.

Same applies for ever airport terminal I've been in, they're always about 5 degrees warmer than I'd prefer, and that's without a jacket.

[ACMS]

Walking across a "sunny" carpark at 16c will make normal people sweat......that bright burning thing in the sky will do it every time.:D

Now, being indoors with no Sun wind or rain 22c to 23c is ideal.

[maggot]

Sorry, but I'm with dragon man on this one. A walk across the carpark in a short sleeved white shirt on a sunny 16 degree day and I'm sweating.

Same applies for ever airport terminal I've been in, they're always about 5 degrees warmer than I'd prefer, and that's without a jacket.
Wear your damned jacket!
Then stand yourself down for being too hot

[RENURPP]

How about the facial hair policy? Mainline aren't allowed beards however Qlink are.. The average punter in the terminal wouldn't know the difference if you stood a pilot from each next to each other (we are getting the same uniform after all) so why the inconsistency?
according to the policy all QF pilots are allowed to have beards etc.

[JetRacer]

RENURPP that document also had QantasLink, Network and Cobham on the front page too...

[OBNO]

according to the policy all QF pilots are allowed to have beards etc.


Wrong.. On the Qantas mainline guide, it clearly says No beards allowed..

[dragon man]

Wear your damned jacket!
Then stand yourself down for being too hot
What I hate is sitting in the seat before departure and spelling the body odour and knowing il be like that for another 14/15 hours or worse.

[BleedingAir]

Walking across a "sunny" carpark at 16c will make normal people sweat......that bright burning thing in the sky will do it every time.:D

Now, being indoors with no Sun wind or rain 22c to 23c is ideal.

Ok, fair enough. My point is my sweating threshold appears to be a lot lower than most, and if that's the temp they're maintaining in airports, then I wish they'd turn it down a few degrees... a few more if I'm wearing a jacket under duress.

[Hydromet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RENURPP View Post
according to the policy all QF pilots are allowed to have beards etc.

Wrong.. On the Qantas mainline guide, it clearly says No beards allowed..
50 years ago, as an engineering apprentice at QF, I was told by a jumped up never-come-down manager (not even one of my direct bosses) that "Qantas doesn't like its apprentices to have beards - get it off!" Since I'd looked at all the bumf they gave us when I joined and there was no mention of beards, I ignored him, until I joined the army, where I knew the policy and had no complaints (not that it would have helped if I had).
It seems that Charlie q hasn't changed. Why am I not surprised?

[dragon man]

50 years ago, as an engineering apprentice at QF, I was told by a jumped up never-come-down manager (not even one of my direct bosses) that "Qantas doesn't like its apprentices to have beards - get it off!" Since I'd looked at all the bumf they gave us when I joined and there was no mention of beards, I ignored him, until I joined the army, where I knew the policy and had no complaints (not that it would have helped if I had).
It seems that Charlie q hasn't changed. Why am I not surprised?
No reason, just a different generation of f*ckwits.

[teggun]

Why doesn't AIPA just advise Qantas the uniform policy will remain as it is at the moment.

[mustafagander]

In the distant past our uniform had long sleeve cotton shirts. Kinda hot in DEL & BOM etc. All that was necessary was to get a certificate from your GP that you needed short sleeves to mitigate heat stress. Problem solved. Lots of us did just that and within a few years we had optional short sleeve shirts. I counsel you all not to just defy the FAM.

[Qanchor]

I counsel you all not to just defy the FAM.

I agree with you musta.
It would be folly to think a punitive response of some kind isn't awaiting the uniform recalcitrants.

Why doesn't AIPA just advise Qantas the uniform will remain as it is at the moment

Is anyone's memory that short that they don't remember the response to a few people wearing red ties back in Nov '11?

[Stanwell]

I once had a bit to do with a smaller company whose CEO, a bit of a strange one, would declare a new "company policy" every six months or so.
I couldn't help but wonder just what habits he indulged in outside of work hours.
Will mandatory, approved shades of cosmetics and hose be next for all Qantas crew?

[cattletruck]

What about if you are sporting an afro?

As they say, if the (Qantas) hat fits, wear it.

[C441]

As they say, if the (Qantas) hat fits, wear it.

The problem is not just wearing the hat, it's getting it to stay on!

[RENURPP]

Wrong.. On the Qantas mainline guide, it clearly says No beards allowed..yes, you are correct, I didn't note Qantas or jet connect missing from the front page. Insanity.

Makes me consider growing a beard ��������

[Capt Kremin]

Jackets have been an issue in QF because of the current policy. The policy dictates that the Capt makes the decision whether or not they are worn, meaning that most crews will pack a bulky piece of clothing that may or may not be worn depending on the whim of the PIC.

This new policy gets rid of that. The new jacket is lighter, cooler and less bulky than the item it replaces. 95% of the time it will be worn from air-conditioned transport to air-conditioned terminal to air-conditioned aircraft etc etc, unless the temp is over 27 degrees.

It wont be a bulky item taking up space in luggage. Aesthetics aside, it is actually a sensible policy.

[hotnhigh]

Jackets have been an issue in QF because of the current policy. The policy dictates that the Capt makes the decision whether or not they are worn, meaning that most crews will pack a bulky piece of clothing that may or may not be worn depending on the whim of the PIC.

As has been said a few times now regarding various other elements or procedures when working for qantas...."They don't do that **** in short haul."

Departure status? Work it out yourself champ.

[fearcampaign]

This must be very embarrassing for the Author.
The shirts are 65% polyester.
It's never been an issue as pilots have not had to wear a jacket too.
Nor a vinyl hat that has the breathability of a plastic bag.
Captains decision making ability overridden.
Sad that Caltains are entrusted with multi million dollar aircraft but not with discretion on jackets.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Sad that Caltains are entrusted with multi million dollar aircraft but not with discretion on jackets.


**Pro Tip**

If one really needs to demonstrate ones Command Authority one can still continue to override the lesser ranks and mandate the security password:ok:

[holdingagain]

Did I see some Q flight crew wearing pink bars today or are my eyes needing help

[Keg]

Lots of them are. It's #flypink month.

[galdian]

I understand the "wearing of the uniform" was a 28 page email - print at your own cost to save $$ no doubt - only 28 pages, gee Qantas really are getting their game together.

Gotta ask - is the "27 degrees" defined as:
- departure external environment;
- arrival external environment;
- the transit between the nominal 22 degrees of hotels and taxis/minibuses etc etc??

Equally what is the temperature band ie is 26.1 degrees 27 degrees or 27.0 degrees + 27 degrees?
What is the source of info - Qantas approved no doubt! - used so that all crew are using the same informational reference to ensure consistency and compliancy?

No doubt contained within the 28 page email...if you read the smallprint maybe? :p:p

[CurtainTwitcher]

What is the source of info - Qantas approved no doubt!
Everyone knows it has to be at least AWIS or better with a 15 minute validity.

/sarc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law)

[Jc31]

Everyone knows it has to be at least AWIS or better with a 15 minute validity.

/sarc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law)

Apparently the source is the inbuilt oat gauge on the crew transfer bus

[dragon man]

Jackets have been an issue in QF because of the current policy. The policy dictates that the Capt makes the decision whether or not they are worn, meaning that most crews will pack a bulky piece of clothing that may or may not be worn depending on the whim of the PIC.

This new policy gets rid of that. The new jacket is lighter, cooler and less bulky than the item it replaces. 95% of the time it will be worn from air-conditioned transport to air-conditioned terminal to air-conditioned aircraft etc etc, unless the temp is over 27 degrees.

It wont be a bulky item taking up space in luggage. Aesthetics aside, it is actually a sensible policy.

Pigs bottom. If it's so sensible then why are cabin managers given the discretion on jackets been worn by the crew that Captains used to have?

[Trent 972]

Just put a thermometer in face (not bum) and it says 37.6 C.
It seems I'm more than 10 degrees above the jacket cut-off temp.
Coats off...

[fearcampaign]

Think the easiest way if you feel uncomfortable and too hot wearing a solid vinyl hat and a warm jacket is to explain the dilemma to the Pilot in command.
Individual Body temperatures and sweat levels differ. Men are usually hotter in core temperature than women.
If one is sweating or red faced, then it's visual evidence of discomfort affecting a pilots potential performance. No point sweating, overheating,feeling unwell and making a error or mistake at flight planning or worse on a preflight that could be far worse.
Fill out a Flight crew report.
If it's cool enough then comply with the policy and wear the jacket. If pilots had to wear shirts only it would look perfectly acceptable and smart provided ties are done up, shirts tucked in etc.
A rotund pilot sweating in a tight fitted jacket would be a far worse sight!

Abusing Flight ops managers/AIPA and simply complaining on here,or Qrewroom, or the bar, won't change it.
For all their criticisms, Sadly gone are the days of strong leaders such as Kearns/Heiniger/Manning that would of stopped such Impracticalities and upheld the current FAM. But to be fair I think todays office pilots are ranked far lower than HR/Marketing etc etc. They are not as important or even influential like the old days. Through no fault of their own, office roles are now essentially admin positions with very little say in anything including jackets/hats/uniforms.
Flight Crew Reports are the best answer to get this changed.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Through no fault of their own, office roles are now essentially admin positions with very little say in anything including jackets/hats/uniforms.

Flight Crew Reports are the best answer to get this changed

So let's get this straight, an administrative answer on the Pilots behalf directed at office dwellers who command little say in anything is the best method for change??

[fearcampaign]

Indeed. AIPA have no input or influence post EA agreement.
Enough Flight crew Reports is now the only way anything changes.
You really think anything can happen today in Qantas without a form?
Unsurprisingly CSMs have discretion wearing their uniforms but not Captains.
FAAA must really have some influence.

[parabellum]

77 posts and still no pictures!

[Capn Bloggs]

Para, Search is your friend...

http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/578282-new-qantas-uniform.html

[DirectAnywhere]

I think of myself as a bit part actor in an airline based farce directed from somewhere on the Campus.

If I then think of the uniform as a costume that keeps the director happy so that he keeps paying me every fortnight, it's a lot more palatable.

Seriously, it's the idea of someone, somewhere of what a pilot should look like so good luck to them. It doesn't represent anything these days anyway other than the cheapest pilot the group can find from various sub-contracted agencies willing to do the job.

Wear it, toss it in the back of the car at the end of the trip, go home, chuck it back on at the start of the next trip, get paid, live life. Simples.

[parabellum]

Thanks Capt. Bloggs.

Re white topped hats, is my memory playing tricks or did QF have white topped hats in the seventies?

[anito4a]

The thinking behind the white hats by the designer

He researched pilots uniforms across the board, across history and then specifically Qantas. “The origin of the uniform is actually naval-based, because when aircraft were invented the only thing that they had were naval uniforms, so they just wore the same kind of uniform, more than the fighter pilots’ leather jacket and cap,” he explains.

“It’s so subtle the changes that we could make, but really cool is the new white top of the hat, because in the last 30 years I think the majority of airline companies switched to a black or a dark top. Qantas had the white top up until the 70s. So I wanted to take it back to a slightly more nostalgic feel, back to that ground-roots travel.”

Source: vogue.com.au (http://www.vogue.com.au/culture/features/martin+grant+reveals+the+new+uniforms+for+qantas+pilots+,390 22)

I don't think it looks that bad. From the pic in the article, is the white hat an option, ie, can you chose between white and black?

[maggot]

Its the badge that really grates people

(Re the hat)

[anito4a]

Thanks Capt. Bloggs.

Re white topped hats, is my memory playing tricks or did QF have white topped hats in the seventies?

Yes, they did.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/16/06/279D5AA900000578-0-image-a-5_1429160468167.jpg

[mrdeux]

It looks like both those hats (and the wings) are straight from naval stores. I'd happily wear them (probably even have a set in a box somewhere). The trouble is that this new hat is from 'Catch Me If You Can'.

Actually, I think the shirts are the worst part of the uniform. The hats are only second.

Mandatory jackets is a positive, as it hides the shirt.

[Ida down]

Just put a thermometer in face (not bum) and it says 37.6 C.
It seems I'm more than 10 degrees above the jacket cut-off temp.
Coats off...
Best uniform ever was in our TAA DC3. Stubbies, army socks and boots, and a cap.Thats it. The Skipper had Mickey Mouse on the front of his, in case we pranged her, so they woukd know who was boss.
40 deg everyday out in the GAFA with the Geologists on board. Worked a treat till the hirachy found out, we had swapped the normal outfit, and outfitted ourselves out of the Mt.Isa army disposal store. Should be more of it. They still fly the same.

[MACH082]

And the 5 guys above were just a QF DC3 crew :)

[Ida down]

And the 5 guys above were just a QF DC3 crew :)
They never did keep up. Look at the poor b%%gers, look like store models.

[Ida down]

I didn't get that from his post Slezy, all I got was that he doesn't like any deviation from heterosexual white males.
As a heterosexual white male I find that offensive :)Hetro, white, male? I hope you are not Catholic as well.

[Stationair8]

The gold braid on the new uniforms seems have been downsized, compared to past uniforms.

[OnceBitten]

With Gold at the moment at $1270 US an ounce they had to down size the braids. :p

[bafanguy]

Well, I don't hear you're having THIS issue with your new uniforms:

http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2016/10/27/american-airlines-employee-memo-details-chemicals.html?ana=yahoo

[In the Soup]

Catch Me If You Can scheduled to air immediately after the latest episode of Ready for Takeoff tonight.

Is someone taking the mickey?

[Donald Trump]

Believe me, in my opinion this new uniform stinks. This is not going to make this company win bigly. Time to support winners, not losers.

[sms777]

Where can I get one of those hats? I like it.....I am just a bush pilot and like to crack a joke to my clients ocassionally.....:D

[OBNO]

Here ya go . Can get the whole uniform!

Retro Pilot Mens Costume | THEMES (http://www.costumebox.com.au/retro-pilot-mens-costume.html)

[Capn Bloggs]

You handsome high-flyer you! :)

[mrdeux]

Where can I get one of those hats? I like it.....I am just a bush pilot and like to crack a joke to my clients ocassionally.....

You can have mine. And I just found some much better wings in an air museum shop.

[dragon man]

If it doesn't fit I'm happy for you to have mine!!!

[Tuck Mach]

A multi page guide to wear a uniform? Most pilots, military or otherwise have worn uniforms for a long time. Other pilot uniforms were simply introduced and people exchanged the existing for the new one..

The modern Qantas with buildings full of HR/IR types all struggling for relevance concoct and try to introduce a control over pilots. A performance management tool? Maybe the Chief is being persuaded what is needed is KPI's for pilots and this is the beginning.

Ironically HR/IR have had far more success with circumventing career paths with the whole JQ, Network,Cobham,Jetconnect (am I missing one?).

When Todd Samson doesn't wear a four day growth and a grotty T-Shirt as a board member, and the desk jockeys in 'the street' have to wear a jacket and tie on leaving the hallowed offices of irrelevance, then one suspects the pilots will too..

[Jeps]

I like Todd Sampson, he's a cool funny guy etc. BUT, his expertise is in marketing and PR and I'm sure he's great at it but what exactly would he bring to the QF non executive sphere other than that? We saw the dire consequences of putting as CEO someone who only knows PR with the fallout of Dreamworld, Ardent Leisure and Deborah Thomas.

[Tuck Mach]

Yes Jeps,

You are correct, he (Todd) brings marketing and branding, that is all.
This whole uniform exercise reeks of spin.

How many likes on fool book does it get?
Not whether the uniform is functional..
Geez a certain airline CEO faced with a 'clanker' of a uniform, gave the staff the budget a,timeline and a vote..He stipulated when voted on, no more complaints...
The uniform was designed and on budget. The crew wore it, without exception proud to be in it.

The CEO also undertook to wear the existing uniform until the new one was rolled out...Can't see the hallowed genius of QCA wearing it at Qantas.

Candidly giving people ownership is much easier and far more productive to a company than controlling and IR derived policies, but then the HR/IR types would have to find something else with which to justify their existence...

[bigal cessna]

THE SADDEST THING , ABOUT THE NEW UNIFORM IS ,,,, WHEN I WORKED FOR QANTAS IN THE 1960s -- THE KANGEROO HAD WINGS ---- NOW THEY ARE MISSING ---- WHAT KEEPS THE PLANES UP NOW------- BUT , NOW YOU CAN ASK FOR ICECREAM-----------

[theheadmaster]

THE SADDEST THING , ABOUT THE NEW UNIFORM IS ,,,, WHEN I WORKED FOR QANTAS IN THE 1960s -- THE KANGEROO HAD WINGS ---- NOW THEY ARE MISSING ---- WHAT KEEPS THE PLANES UP NOW------- BUT , NOW YOU CAN ASK FOR ICECREAM-----------

Am I having flashback? Looks like a guest appearance by sTu (tm) ;)

[HamishMcBush]

Just done a quick "google" in response to some of the comments I have seen on here and there is something distinctly odd about many of the photos.... the heads seem over-large for the bodies on many of them, cartoon-like.

Someone been playing with the software (or the food) ???

[Keg]

I would have thought such counselling sessions would have rated a mention on Qrewroom?

[Density]

My hat is dirty already! Urghhh only took a month!

[I.smell.a.rat]

Having worn the uniform for a while now;

Far more comfortable than I thought
Plenty of compliments from staff and travellers
White is the new black
If they pay me this much, I'll wear anything!

I haven't heard of any uniform police around, haven't seen any and don't expect to either.

Safe flying peeps

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

Perhaps now that SOs no longer need to spend time putting away the captain's charts they can be put to work cleaning hats.

[blow.n.gasket]

I smell a Qantas Angel ,
with I smell a rats post.
According to a few of the base managers who actually tell it like it is
there has been a lot of negative crew reports coming in ,
(And I was told "a lot ") about serious comfort and safety issues regarding the new uniform now that crew have had multiple sectors to endure this latest exercise in form over function.
The managers response , keep 'em coming in!
Unless there is an avalanche of reports ,then there can't possibly be anything wrong under the emporors dictum.

[C441]

The uniform appearance (except maybe the hat) is fine.
The uniform's practicality is not.
My jacket, that is already at the larger end of my normal fitting, is so tight that I can't lift my arms without feeling the jacket will split across the shoulders. It's being replaced with a larger one that will look like I'm wearing a potato sack. Fashionable it won't be!
I also have a 10 step hat……after 10 steps it falls off. I had a haircut yesterday….maybe that'll work.:cool:

I'm lucky as I'm slim, so the jatz crackers aren't in danger when sitting and a normal fit shirt actually does. (Tried a slim fit but it didn't!)

[dr dre]

It's being replaced with a larger one that will look like I'm wearing a potato sack. Fashionable it won't be!

Ever thought about doing what every other person who has ill fitting clothes does and go to a tailor?

[Tankengine]

Ever thought about doing what every other person who has ill fitting clothes does and go to a tailor?

Happy to for my own clothes.
For company supplied uniforms: if they want us to look good they will supply good uniforms, or have them tailored.
If they don't care we can just look crap in the crap they have supplied! ;)

[maggot]

Und das ist verboten

[Keg]

Ever thought about doing what every other person who has ill fitting clothes does and go to a tailor?

How do you tailor a hat that is either too big or too small. It's shape is perfectly round. Thus it's either loose all around or tight fore and aft whilst loose on the side. Supposedly he consulted a milliner to design it. The look perhaps, but not the fitting.

For me I haven't had any issues with the pants or jacket. The shirts I've modified but they're still not ideal.

I've avoided the heat issue by walking slowly. Short legs help. :}

[goodonyamate]

I've also avoided the heat issue, but by not wearing the jacket. Sure, I'll wear it when I feel the temperature allows me too, but if it's too hot outside, it's not leaving home, regardless of what temp it is inside. I've seen managers, checkies, base advisors etc.... no one cares, no one has even mentioned it.
Seriously, they wanted a big hoohaa for the launch, that's done, onto the next thing. I'm hearing the number of FCR mentioning shirt issues is so high they may be forced to resdesign. (The other forum mentions that they actually have a desire to fix the issues which is good)

If they'd just asked first, and left the one who wanted to move the wings out of it, the uniform could look good and still be functional....now it will end up costing them even more 🙄

[C441]

Ever thought about doing what every other person who has ill fitting clothes does and go to a tailor?
I suggested that letting the jacket out a little across the shoulders would probably solve the problem but was told not to get it done myself nor would they do it - despite initially suggesting they may. I even suggested that a larger size would probably be too long in the sleeves and minimal tailoring would be a better option. Apparently not.
Given that and the fact that the jacket belongs to Qantas, I'm less than enthusiastic about making substantial adjustments to their clothing. I guess this way they can pass the jacket on to someone it will fit and it is considered a cost saving.
The massive budget for "looking great" in the new uniform obviously has some limits.

As a side note, those I've been dealing with have been very helpful in endeavouring to get a good result. I guess they're limited by their instructions too.

[Wunwing]

Sometimes there becomes apparent a "silver lining" when there is a uniform aberration imposed on crew.

Back in the days of Qantas owned by the Government we got a new Minister who was ex railways. He decided that we were only train drivers so he put us in a uniform similar to NSW rail and bus even though we objected.

At about the same time as the uniform was issued there was a major and long, fuel strike and were all had to use trains and bus. It was also winter so we had jackets on.

It was then we discovered what Mr Minister had done for us. No one would sell us a ticket on a Govt. bus or train because we were obviously staff and were entitled to free transport. No one would come near us because all the gold stripes indicated that we were very important. I even had ticket inspectors walk past me muttering "good morning sir". A friend who was a senior check and lived near Palm Beach ( a long bus trip if you don't know Sydney) was offered a seat at the rear of a bus and other passengers were instructed by the driver not to sit there.

So all you QF staff, you never know how this one will work out. there may be good yet although if there ever was an example of Qantas re inventing the wheel, I suspect the white hats are it. At least you don't have skydrol eating holes in the plastic tops like we did on the 707s.

Wunwing

[blow.n.gasket]

Skydrol hat spritzers at sign on anyone? :}

[Potsie Weber]

Sometimes there becomes apparent a "silver lining" when there is a uniform aberration imposed on crew.

Back in the days of Qantas owned by the Government we got a new Minister who was ex railways. He decided that we were only train drivers so he put us in a uniform similar to NSW rail and bus even though we objected.

At about the same time as the uniform was issued there was a major and long, fuel strike and were all had to use trains and bus. It was also winter so we had jackets on.

It was then we discovered what Mr Minister had done for us. No one would sell us a ticket on a Govt. bus or train because we were obviously staff and were entitled to free transport. No one would come near us because all the gold stripes indicated that we were very important. I even had ticket inspectors walk past me muttering "good morning sir". A friend who was a senior check and lived near Palm Beach ( a long bus trip if you don't know Sydney) was offered a seat at the rear of a bus and other passengers were instructed by the driver not to sit there.

So all you QF staff, you never know how this one will work out. there may be good yet although if there ever was an example of Qantas re inventing the wheel, I suspect the white hats are it. At least you don't have skydrol eating holes in the plastic tops like we did on the 707s.

Wunwing

Excellent! Free ice-creams all round!

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Still have my first "white top" from 1967, although "cream" would be more accurate, now.
I remember well the "Charlie Jones" uniform, it was also the same as all the Comcar drivers, more than one Commonwealth pollie was "a little surprised" at the reply when they demanded their car of a pilot waiting for the crew bus.
Tootle pip!!

[Ida down]

I tried running over the cap with my Land Rover. It didn't improve it at all. Sadly.We used to hose them first, then run over them with a tractor. Never failed.

[Ida down]

It might be because they are made of aluminium. You should try a Hilux.Tractor. Works a treat.

[blow.n.gasket]

Any truth to the rumour that Martin Grant ,the designer of this uniform catastrophe is none other than the nephew of Lesley Grant Qantas CEO of loyalty.
Say it isn't so, please.
Would explain a lot ,if true, though!:eek:

[framer]

I saw them the other day in the terminal, looked quite stylish in my opinion.

[CaptCloudbuster]

A triumph of style over substance.

[landrecovery]

Thanks for the red ties boys, Cathay Dragon pilots were asked about the colour because we have choices ROFL, they answered with a resounding no to red.
Of course we got red the choice of revolutionary pilots, I wear it with pride.
BTW I was surprised that I like the QF hats, do I want a hat again no bloody way

[maggot]

I just want the damned thing to fit

[framer]

There is a clinic in Coogee that will re-size your head for $1500AUD.

[maggot]

How much for a reshaping?

[Hoofharted]

What really pees me off is the ridiculously stupid fake pockets, not to mention a plethora of dinky little buttons that make ironing a pain in the arse. I actually cut the shirt pocket buttons off.

When do we get proper wings and epaulets?

[Keg]

When do we get proper wings and epaulets?

About five years time when this uniform is redesigned again to match whatever they've come up with for the cabin crew.

[Arewegettingjets]

What really pees me off is the ridiculously stupid fake pockets, not to mention a plethora of dinky little buttons that make ironing a pain in the arse. I actually cut the shirt pocket buttons off.

When do we get proper wings and epaulets?

March from what I've heard.
Did anyone get the trench coat on Friday?

[Ida down]

I tried running over the cap with my Land Rover. It didn't improve it at all. Sadly.
You need a tractor and hose. Never fails.

[Ida down]

Thanks for the red ties boys, Cathay Dragon pilots were asked about the colour because we have choices ROFL, they answered with a resounding no to red.
Of course we got red the choice of revolutionary pilots, I wear it with pride.
BTW I was surprised that I like the QF hats, do I want a hat again no bloody way
You need a hat to keep your crap in. Otherwise you can never find it.

[Jc31]

No one has mentioned that the female uniform only sports one breast pocket. Apparently Martin grant either thought that female pilots had only a 50% pocket requirement of their male counterparts or that all pockets were only for show.

[Qanchor]

There's a white hat in the Jetlag Bar................gold!

[Qanchor]

In a late FSO, the new Qantas uniform is declared unsuitable. Pilots who still have their old uniform may wear this until a new(er) is designed.

[DirectAnywhere]

The far better April Fools' joke is on the sad sacks who have to continue to wear this abomination. Oh, wait.

[Ida down]

Now you get a ring to go with it. Is there no end to their generosity.??

[Keg]

Will need a re-write of the grooming standards to comply. Not gold, silver or platinum.

[mrdeux]

Now you get a ring to go with it. Is there no end to their generosity.??

Nasal? Penile? Or just rings in general. Always been plenty of them around.

[Tankengine]

Now you get a ring to go with it. Is there no end to their generosity.??

I doubt Keg will wear it. ;)

(Or me for that matter, I think it is overstepping)

[Keg]

Yes tankengine. Highly unlikely. :D Ultimately I don't expect it to impact me or other pilots very much at all.

I feel sorry for the F/As who doesn't support SSM. Awkwardness on the other end of the cart with the potential for it to impact adversely on the creation and viability of the teamwork so critical if things go wrong. Ultimately that could impact all of us in the crew. := :(

[maggot]

What is this ring? ?

[Capn Bloggs]

Qantas chairman Leigh Clifford defends same-sex marriage campaign - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-04/qantas-chairman-defends-same-sex-marriage-campaign/8414514)

[Ushuaia]

I feel sorry for the F/As who doesn't support SSM. Awkwardness on the other end of the cart with the potential for it to impact adversely on the creation and viability of the teamwork so critical if things go wrong. Ultimately that could impact all of us in the crew. := :(

Precisely why this political stuff has no place in the workplace. Just imagine a situation where someone alleges harassment or bullying because he's NOT wearing this ring. Maybe someone gets stood down over an incident, even?

You want to support this stuff in your private time, fine. But not in the workplace. Workplace is for WORK. Clifford and co have definitely overstepped calling for staff members to show support by wearing it.

[FYSTI]

Qantas has joined other big brands, such as Google, Airbnb, ANZ and eBay in launching the "Until We All Belong" campaign for same-sex marriage.

The campaign calls on staff members and the public to show their support by wearing a specially-designed black ring.
Qantas chairman Leigh Clifford defends same-sex marriage campaign (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-04/qantas-chairman-defends-same-sex-marriage-campaign/8414514)

If you don't wear the ring? What message is implied in the absence of the ring? This is precisely the point of my post #394 (http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/590888-gay-colors-20.html#post9718567) on the [now closed] Gay Colors thread.
Both wearing or NOT wearing the ring sends a message, you are forced into a binary decision, you must make a stand one way or another AND SIGNAL YOUR CHOICE. You are either for it or against it in a highly public manner. Those that are fiercely one way or the other will not be swayed by this tactic. However, the great middle will be forced to make a choice, and then demonstrate that choice to everyone else in a highly public and symbolic manner.

The obvious answer is that anyone that believes their future job security or promotion is linked to their political views will silently opt in regardless of their beliefs about same sex marriage OUT OF FEAR.

Employees are in no doubt what so ever about their master's position on this matter, and thus those who are in the middle will be forced to make a decision based on what they believe is politically best for them in the organisation. This is workplace social engineering through politicisation and virtue signalling gone mad. I wonder if it crosses over the line of discrimination? The campaign is very cleverly orchestrated outside any one enterprise to enable plausible deniability. However, any rational thinking individual will realise what they need to signal to keep their master happy, and hence their career.

This is completely unacceptable in a workplace. I was reminded of an essay by a famed psychologist Philip Zimbardo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Zimbardo) (Stanford Prison Experiment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)), On Resisting Social Influence, abstract (http://www.icsahome.com/articles/on-resisting-social-influence-andersenzimbardo):
The thesis of this essay is that “mind control” exists not in exotic gimmicks, but rather in the most mundane aspects of human
experience. If this is true, it implies that people can learn to resist untoward influences,
which are defined here as influences in which intentions are hidden and the subtle constraints of individual behavior are profound. When information is
systematically hidden, withheld, or distorted, people may end up making biased decisions, even though they believe that they
are freely “choosing” to act. These contexts may thus involve “mind control.” Although resisting cleverly crafted social
influences in not easy, it is argued here that it is possible to reduce susceptibility to unwanted interpersonal controls by
increasing vigilance and by utilizing certain basic strategies of analysis. In this paper, resistance strategies are presented
which are broadly applicable to a wide array of mind-manipulation contexts. Relevant social psychological research, manuals
for police interrogators, and interviews with one-time cult members form the basis for the present arguments, which blend
pragmatic advice with a conceptual analysis of the basic issues on which vulnerability to persuasion rests.

[Keg]

Nice summation of the issue FYSTI.

[Stationair8]

As a QF shareholder, I prefer the CEO and the board to run the airine not take part in social engineering.

The board have a responsibility to the staff and shareholders.

The share price has not really improved since the float, no dividends for a few years and really the current price is nothing to write home about.

The airline industry is a fickle business, perhaps best planning for the next SARS outbreak, pig flu, recession etc might be what the CEO and board need to do.

[got_wheel]

If you don't wear the ring? What message is implied in the absence of the ring? This is precisely the point of my post #394 on the [now closed] Gay Colors thread.
Both wearing or NOT wearing the ring sends a message, you are forced into a binary decision, you must make a stand one way or another AND SIGNAL YOUR CHOICE. You are either for it or against it in a highly public manner. Those that are fiercely one way or the other will not be swayed by this tactic. However, the great middle will be forced to make a choice, and then demonstrate that choice to everyone else in a highly public and symbolic manner.

3iV8X8ubGCc

[FYSTI]

^^^^^^^ I could never have made the point so simply & eloquently, I defer to the comic genius of The Kramer. :D

[Ken Borough]

As a QF shareholder, I prefer the CEO and the board to run the airine not take part in social engineering.

The board have a responsibility to the staff and shareholders.

The share price has not really improved since the float, no dividends for a few years and really the current price is nothing to write home about.

The airline industry is a fickle business, perhaps best planning for the next SARS outbreak, pig flu, recession etc might be what the CEO and board need to do.

As a shareholder I couldn't agree more. I plan to write to Messrs Clifford and Joyce to express my dismay and suggest that they "stick to the knitting". I would hate to be working in this environment. What next?:\:mad:

[Tuck Mach]

A wise sage remarked, when management don't know what to do they just do something!

Who would have thought Leigh had a soft spot for SSM :D

As for the ring, do the pilots have to kiss it? :uhoh:

[mrdeux]

Maybe the ring is our new wings...

So I guess wearing a One Nation t-shirt will be ok. Just a different form of politics.

I don't think I'll give a sector to anyone who exposes their ring.

[Tankengine]

Unless there is a new uniform standards document around then the ring is against company policy.
I wonder what would happen if one was to stand down a wearer for breaching uniform policy? ;)

[knobbycobby]

I had heard that some flight operations management looked quite dashing wearing their new rings at the street.
Seems some of the true believers are willing to go all the way.
And to think not long ago wearing a red tie to keep Qantas aircraft flown by Australian pilots was such a gross offensive horror.
Maybe another 18 month pay freeze until we all belong?
Apparently it's not a fully formed designer ring, carved from the finest Indonesian polyester.
#equalityis

[Tuck Mach]

An high office holder individual using corporation's (other people's money) to advance a personal agenda is not usually welcomed by either shareholders or regulator.

Joyce has a litany of failures, from Red Q, to JQ (HK, Asia or Vietnam?), static real group revenue, an alliance with EK that delivers not a dollar of revenue, from 'terminal' to transformed, needing $3billion, then not... this is simply a distraction.

Whilst the sun shines on his empire, blessing him with cheap fuel, he is happy to distract the masses and dance through the meadows. Bread and circuses for all! :=

Astute observers of the corporation, would suggest that attention be focused on what the capital structure is when the sun stops shining, what fleet options are delivered to reduce fuel expense (CASK) to ensure that when the next downturn bites, those of any persuasion in the employ of Qantas are still gainfully employed.

As Buffett remarked, the rising tide lifts all boats and cheap fuel a blessing, but when the tide goes out, Joyce will be swimming naked. It will not be pleasant.

And thank you got wheel made me laugh for a considerable period!

[unobtanium]

As a QF shareholder, I prefer the CEO and the board to run the airine not take part in social engineering.



I think you may be wrong.

Qantas is a brand, its the reason people choose to fly it and work for it despite its issues. Like it or not, marketing puts bums on seats.

[fearcampaign]

Agree,

Qantas has turned around completely now and is making billion dollar profits year after year now.
Qantas must be rolling in cash to bankroll a 5 million dollar advertising campaign on marriage equality.
It's a big issue for nearly all the senior management and many staff in Qantas so hence the interest and the investment. Even the Qantas gaynetto campaign won social media award of the year. If it brings in the affluent gay dollar then all the better for the staff and shareholders. Even our chairman is supportive in the media.
I don't see the relevance in bigoted views of people Christian or otherwise. The majority of people don't have a problem with it.
The world has moved on from outdated views and I'm sure that religion would teach tolerance and respect.
Look at the positives. If Qantas can afford 5 million spend on this and manufacture thousands of rings, then I'm sure we can demand improvements in pay and conditions next EBA given so much was traded away recently.
Just eat humble pie, or a gaynetto and get behind the initiative.

[Ida down]

This world bewilders me. Even in the eighties/nineties, if you told Flight Crew/ Engineers to wear a ring to promote Gay Marriage, most would end up in the round file, accompanied by mutterings of where to shove it. But then again I cannot imagine the likes of Capt. Bert Richie, Keith Hamilton and John Menidue ever allowing the letter to go out in the first place. I appreciate the next generation of both are more compliant, more metro/urban, more aware, then us baby boomers or war babies, and perhaps thats a good thing, but coming from a world that only ever existed of blokes or Sheilas and that was it, I find it incredible that a CEO can use an Icon of this country, to push his cause. Personally I don't care what they do, if they want marriage, let em have it, but like everything else it comes at a cost, one way or another, and like everyone else some will find the grass is no greener, but becomes expensive instead. Welcome to our world. But to be given a ring to wear, will only divide the troops, and that is not good at 35,000 ft, or in the hangers.

[downdata]

Ahahahaha as shareholders of "airlines" you probably deserve everything that is coming at you, which, in real terms, is probably close to nothing. Sell your shares, reinvest them into airports which have 100-year monopoly rights and stop complaining when they charge you $50 for an hour of parking.

[C441]

Like it or not, marketing puts bums on seats.
Yes, I'm sure some have been driven to book a Qantas seat as a result of this campaign; some have chosen not to for the same reason.

If Qantas can afford 5 million spend on this and manufacture thousands of rings, then I'm sure we can demand improvements in pay and conditions next EBA given so much was traded away recently.

…."Sorry. We spent the cash put aside for your 'bonus' on our (yours and mine!) #Equalityis campaign." :rolleyes:

Actually, there's an idea. The CEO and senior executives could show their support for the campaign by donating $5million of their bonus to save the Company the expense. That would generate masses of engagement with the apparent majority of staff that support the project, sell more seats and create an even greater bonus! I should be CEO!!