Westland Whirlwind

[olympus]

I've just finished reading a fascinating book about this little-known (to me at least) aircraft and there are a number of references to aircraft becoming u/s or aborting missions due to exactor (sometime capitalised) failure. It appears this is something in the Peregrine engine but anybody know what the exactor is/does?

Interestingly, out of a total production of 116 aircraft (at £27000 each), just two survived the war to be returned to Westlands. 40 were lost/missing in action or crashed on returning to UK after contact with the enemy whilst 74 were damaged in accidents or otherwise struck off charge. Despite this apparently high loss rate it seems the pilots liked the aeroplane.

The book (highly recommended) is 263 and 137 Squadrons, The Whirlwind Years by Robert Bowater ISBN 9781781552452

[oxenos]

Exactor was a throttle control system which used a hydraulic type linkage instead of the usual rods/wires/levers. They had a reputation for needing bleeding/priming frequently.
Used on several of Shorts big aeroplanes, where the control runs were long. Why Westland used them on a relatively small aeroplane I do not know

[Wander00]

By all accounts the Peregrine was a bit of a dog, to mix metaphors. Now had they had Merlins available and able to modify the aircraft to take them, what a fighter that might have been

[DaveReidUK]

It's such a shame that none survive.

[PDR1]

Like many Teddy Petter designs, it had its serious flaws. The main one in this case concerns the advisability of routing exhaust pipes through the middle of fuel tanks on a combat aeroplane.

The potential consequences are left as an exercise for the reader.

PDR

[pax britanica]

A super looking aircraft, I remember having an Airfix kit of one which was tricky to build with the mid fin mounted tailplane, at the time I wondered why it was not made in any quantity.

Didn't Mr Petter go for the hot exhaust /fuel tanks combo on another design as well

[David Thompson]

The Whirlwind Fighter Project ;
http://www.whirlwindfighterproject.org/

[PDR1]

The main reason for its demise was RR abandoning the Peregrine to concentrate on its other engine programmes. I also think I read somewhere that the 150 Octane petrol it needed wasn't in overly abundant supply.

PDR

[bobward]

There's a partial replica in the City Of Norwich Aviation Museum. It's quite impressive!

[oldpax]

There is a Whirlwind association.A full size replica is being built.

[David Thompson]

There is a Whirlwind association.A full size replica is being built. See Post#7 above ; http://www.whirlwindfighterproject.org/ . :ok:

[chevvron]

By all accounts the Peregrine was a bit of a dog, to mix metaphors. Now had they had Merlins available and able to modify the aircraft to take them, what a fighter that might have been
They might even have given it a similar name like (for instance) 'Welkin'.

[ICT_SLB]

They might get more interest if their website didn't require membership just to look at the News section.

My apologies, the new link worked - when I tried from the US, the website required me to log in as a member.

[Wander00]

Well, thanks for that. Welkin was not an aeroplane I knew anything about

[DaveReidUK]

They might get more interest if their website didn't require membership just to look at the News section.

I'm not a member, but I can read the newsletters. The only thing I can't do is post comments, which seems perfectly reasonable.

[David Thompson]

They might get more interest if their website didn't require membership just to look at the News section.
As DaveReidUK says above , no membership required to read the news reports , the latest of which is via the link here ;

http://www.whirlwindfighterproject.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13385469-october-newsletter?page=last

[chevvron]

Well, thanks for that. Welkin was not an aeroplane I knew anything about
The Welkin was originally designed as a high altitude interceptor but according to Wikepedia by the time it entered service there were no high altitude enemy flights to intercept. I reckon it would have made a good long range bomber escort but as far as I can see it wasn't used in this role.

[Dr Jekyll]

I did read that the Merlin was considered but the Whirlwind performed as well as it did partly because of the low frontal area which the Peregrines permitted. I have seen a 1/72 model made by fitting an Airfix Whirlwind with the engines from an Airfix Mosquito and it did look most odd.

Later in the war it might have been possible (the 'slimline Merlin' or some such) but by then P51s were available providing the same range.

[chevvron]

Over 100 Welkin airframes were built including 26 in which engines were never fitted, so almost the same production as the Whirlwind.

[Momoe]

Quick google shows the Merlin to be 200kg heavier than the Peregrine, the engine bearers and associated structures plus the wing centre section would
almost certainly need to be strengthened.

Not worth developing at that stage of the war, Beaufighter was already carrying out long range shipping strikes and later supplemented by the Mosquito.

DH Hornet/Grumman Tigercat show where that concept ended up.

[Stanwell]

Thank you, Momoe.
The Welkin was of course designed to counter a contemporary threat.
By the time it had been developed to a usefulness, that particular threat had waned.
The exigencies of war, eh?

I must say, though, that both the DH Hornet and the Grumman Tigercat, (IMHO), rate as the most visually and aurally stimulating
piston twins ever designed.
So there.

[olympus]

Interesting posts and thanks to oxenos for the answer to my original question.

It seems the Welkin was quite a large aircraft; wingspan of 70' compared with the Whirlwind's 46' and the Mosquito's 55'. I guess that span/aspect ratio was needed for its high-altitude role.

[tornadoken]

Eclipse of Whirlwind, rise of Spitfire were not determined by quality as perceived during 1939. It was industrial logic.

Whirlwind protoype contract 11/2/37. (Westland's near-bankruptcy, 10/35 had been rescued by 9/36 order for 169 Lysanders; again: ) 7/38 Ministers encouraged mariner John Brown and sparks AEI to inject equity: Spitfire wing ribs were from Westland. Reward was order for 200 Whirlwinds, early-1939, 200 more later 1939: cannon-armed escorts for RAF Medium Bombers vaulting over the Maginot and Siegfried Lines, beyond Hurri/Spit range (UK did not fund a small conscript Expeditionary Force for France until 23/4/39, intended for 1941).

Lord Nuffield was underway late-1938 building Castle Bromwich Aircraft Factory for Battles, changed early-1939 to Whirlwind, to which Spitfire Mk.II was added, 4/39...or so Air Ministry thought: (Spitfire's) "future was assured (due to) stubbornness of 1 man (N, insisting) on producing (all of all) 1,000 (at CBAF, so Whirlwind was) squeezed out”’ A.M.memo, 11/7/39, in E.B.Morgan/E.Shacklady, Spitfire, Key, 1987, P51: any colour you like so long as it's black. Nuffield wanted mass/same-same for his auto-production process: Spit easier than Whirlwind.

Add in Merlin finding so many berths; add in RR Experimental resources being dissipated over too many Projects; add in RR diversion to Supervising Merlin shadow production in quantities unseen since 1917...add in orphan Peregrine...and Whirlwind production slipped down the priorities list. It wasn't technical complexity, nor was it MG vs. cannon, that caused priority to Hurricane/Spitfire: it was the evident need as 1939 became 1940 for kit, anykit, even dodgy US types, NOW!

[evansb]

http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/Whirlwind_10-2.jpg

http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/Whirlwind%20clibing%20in%20to%20a%20stall.jpg

[surely not]

I seem to recall that the Whirlwind was not a good fighter to have to bail out of due to the high tail getting in the way? I'm sure I read that quite a few pilots ended up with injuries from hitting the tailplane as they exited their stricken aeroplanes.

[RedhillPhil]

Those air-to-air pictures. Just look at the visibility that the pilot had.

[rolling20]

A few of these in the Battle of Britain would have been interesting. 4 20mm cannon would have been formidable fire power. IIRC I read about one of the few cannon armed Spitfires around the time of Dunkirk, pilot pressed the trigger and almost in an instant his windscreen was completely red!

[megan]

Like many Teddy Petter designs, it had its serious flaws. The main one in this case concerns the advisability of routing exhaust pipes through the middle of fuel tanks on a combat aeroplaneThat exhaust system was on the first prototype, and only retained for a very short period of time, after which the system was modified to a shrouded ejector exhaust as seen on many Merlin installations. An impetus to the change was probably an incident that took place on 10 June 1939, where shortly after take off the aircraft rolled viciously to the right. The right aileron had gone to an uncommanded full up deflection which the test pilot, Harald Penrose, was able to control by full opposite aileron. A judicious landing was then made without any effective aileron control. The right engine exhaust duct and insulation had failed allowing hot gas to burn through the aileron push rod.

As for Petter designs and their flaws, remember he did design the Canberra, and Westlands allowed him to take the design with him when he left their employ.Whirlwind was not a good fighter to have to bail out of due to the high tail getting in the wayFor bail out the tail is in the ideal place, high and out of the way. Mythology has the P-38 tailplane being an impediment to bail out also, which was not the case.Exactor was a throttle control system which used a hydraulic type linkage instead of the usual rods/wires/leversThe Exactor system was used on the throttles, mixture, prop pitch, undercarriage, flap, wheel brakes and fuel cocks.

[olympus]

P7048 (evansb's photograph) was one of the surviving Whirlwinds. It achieved 123.25 operational hours and was registered by Westland post-war as G-AGOI. Scrapped 1951. (per the Bowater book).

I seem to recall that the Whirlwind was not a good fighter to have to bail out of due to the high tail getting in the way? I'm sure I read that quite a few pilots ended up with injuries from hitting the tailplane as they exited their stricken aeroplanes.

The canopy on the Whirlwind apparently was un-jettisonable so in order to vacate the cockpit the pilot had to try to wind the canopy rearwards. This could be difficult/impossible if the canopy rails had sustained damage.:eek:

[PDR1]

As for Petter designs and their flaws, remember he did design the Canberra,

And the Lysander with its lethal combined automatic slat/flap system. The associated [sudden, unannounced] nose-down pitch trim change of which was bad enough, but when the Westlands Chief Test Pilot took Petter up to demonstrate what it did for an aborted landing* he found the experience so frightening it had a profound effect on him - he never flew in one of his own designs again.

PDR

* With the aeroplane trimmed for approach the sudden application of power killed the descent, but once the aeroplane accelerated ant the AoA dropped the slats/flaps retracted, leaving the aeroplane with a massive nose-up trim that needed a huge stick force (>100lbs) to prevent the aeroplane pitching to the vertical and then falling out of the sky. This characteristic was especially appreciated by those pilots who, when dropping SOE agents into small fields on moonless nights and the suddenly discovering it was the wrong field or it was over-run with german troops...

[BEagle]

Petter found a simple way of sorting out the trim change of his later Gnat when the undercarriage was selected down, moving the CG forward...:hmm:

A piece of bike chain connected the main undercarriage to the longitudinal control system, adding about 3° nose-up tailplane incidence as the wheels came down.

[Haraka]

And the Lysander with its lethal combined automatic slat/flap system.
Of course the original idea was that the automatic flap/slat interconnect cancelled out the pitch change near the stall. I seem to recall that the system could be locked.

[PDR1]

AIUI (I haven't flown a lysander) it could be locked *up* but not *down*, so the locking is not much use for the covert insertion ops.

PDR

[Enirge1948]

Any updates on Peregrine field finds or castings in storage...however unlikely?