View Full Version : Qantas Near Miss Paraburdoo WA.
Rotor Work
5th Oct 2016, 10:44
From ABC
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-05/planes-in-near-miss-at-paraburdoo-airport-qantas-says/7906714
A Qantas plane has almost collided with another aircraft on the tarmac at Paraburdoo Airport in Western Australia's Pilbara.
Edit, changed near - miss to collision
umop apisdn
5th Oct 2016, 10:57
Just an incorrectly anticipated turn? How many FIFO workers does it take to push back a 717?
Square Bear
5th Oct 2016, 11:07
A Qantas plane has almost collided with another aircraft on the tarmac at Paraburdoo...
Seems QF Vs QF (at least owned by QF, uniformed by QF, etc).
So, a Qantas spokesman said the planes did not touch but came extremely close..a pax says he felt a bump....and 70 pax now wait for alternate transport.
For all involved hope it was a near miss....but if there was a touch be pretty disappointing if the spokesman gets caught out in a bit of a porky. The industry needs credibility and honesty.
Comoman
5th Oct 2016, 12:37
From the photo looks like both the HS are touching:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32812984/qantas-plane-grounded-after-runway-mishap/#page1
ranmar850
5th Oct 2016, 22:49
Appears to be quite a spacious ( 2 aircraft)apron at PBO compared to some Pilbara regionals. WLP is very tight by comparison, still two aircraft , upper limit is the F-100. No aircraft tugs up here to disengage them, of course.
I'm up here at the moment, was changed to a Friday departure earlier in the week, instead of my usual Thursday--happy about that, as the incident is still impacting movements, currently running 5.5 hrs behind. Anyone care to comment on the rumour circulating that a third aircraft was despatched from PER to try to clear passengers, arrived and found the apron entrance blocked? if so, poor planning, could have bussed passengers to OCM. Wednesday is PBO's busiest, most aircraft full.
Squawk7700
6th Oct 2016, 00:22
http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc75/pbd.jpg
ParkingHell
6th Oct 2016, 00:23
I bet Qantas will feel the heat from the mighty Rio OH&S deptarment now, JHA and a Take5 to be performed before every take off and landing and do the crew have a working at heights, I could go on.
What about the bloke in the west this West this morning (a passenger on the plane) who was commenting that the someone on the ground was waving at the pilot and he and all the others could not understand why the person did not have a radio on to call the pilot.
I can see what will happen next, maybe the problem is with the 8&6 roster is that the airport needs to many planes to move people so why not go back to 2&1 and that should sort the problem or even residential where there are towns. Argh the mining game!
neville_nobody
6th Oct 2016, 01:24
Appears to be quite a spacious ( 2 aircraft)apron at PBO compared to some Pilbara regionals. WLP is very tight by comparison, still two aircraft , upper limit is the F-100. No aircraft tugs up here to disengage them, of course.
If you look at the photos there's actually three jets parked there. Spacious if you're in a C152 but probably not in a 717. Interested to hear the thoughts of a 717 driven in how you can strike the tailplane but not the wingtip. I would have thought that if the wingtip made it then everything else should be OK. My only guess would be they straitened out too early instead of turning right around.
Oh course the assumption here is that the Bays have been measured and marked correctly.
Someone was calling the pilots on the radio, half the Pilbara heard it!!!
Clare Prop
6th Oct 2016, 01:38
Where is Geoffrey Thomas when you need him?
CurtainTwitcher
6th Oct 2016, 01:41
half the Pilbara heard it!!!
Obviously not the most important half!
ranmar850
6th Oct 2016, 01:57
If you look at the photos there's actually three jets parked there. Spacious if you're in a C152 but probably not in a 717. Interested to hear the thoughts of a 717 driven in how you can strike the tailplane but not the wingtip. I would have thought that if the wingtip made it then everything else should be OK. My only guess would be they straitened out too early instead of turning right around.
You are right of course, but from observation, if two are on the apron in the two bays closest the terminal, and a third lands, they will hold on the runway until the third vacates apron and enters and backtracks. Depends on which two slots are occupied at the time, perhaps.
Someone was calling the pilots on the radio, half the Pilbara heard it!!! Frequency? Didn't think ground staffthere had comms with the aircraft on the apron once they had unplugged from the fuselage jack before departure--can't recall seeing them carrying portables ever? just the time-honoured "wave the chocks at them and a thumbs up?"
cbradio
6th Oct 2016, 02:09
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-06/planes-collided-on-paraburdoo-runway-qantas-admits/7907928?pfmredir=sm
"Qantas reveals Paraburdoo Airport runway 'near miss' was a collision"
What a surprise. Nearly a near miss.
Ethel the Aardvark
6th Oct 2016, 02:28
Why were the aircraft not wearing Hi Viz clothing?
Oops, I hope I haven't just started something for OH&S to develop
My bad ranmar850, must have been just after they got stopped by the hand signals - they were very quick to get onto them.
Car RAMROD
6th Oct 2016, 04:42
What about this as a hypothesis?
Outbound QJ looks to have not gotten lined up with the taxiway out to the runway. Difficult to tell in the photos/video though.
Why might that have been?
Gut feeling is the parked-on-the-bay QJ was taxiing onto the bay as the outbound QJ vacated the bay and then clipped the Network F100.
I doubt the F100 was parked so wrong that it was in the way of an aircraft vacating the bay next to it. But that is also possible.
ParkingHell, you probably jest about Take5's. At least I hope you do. It's been tried on before, but resisted I might add!
ParkingHell
6th Oct 2016, 06:33
What about this as a hypothesis?
Outbound QJ looks to have not gotten lined up with the taxiway out to the runway. Difficult to tell in the photos/video though.
Why might that have been?
Gut feeling is the parked-on-the-bay QJ was taxiing onto the bay as the outbound QJ vacated the bay and then clipped the Network F100.
I doubt the F100 was parked so wrong that it was in the way of an aircraft vacating the bay next to it. But that is also possible.
ParkingHell, you probably jest about Take5's. At least I hope you do. It's been tried on before, but resisted I might add!
OH&S people on large Minesites live for this sort of stuff, they will try and take over and run the whole investigation and with nil knowledge of aviation. Then put Qantas through the ringer and it will go on and on.
They will feast on this for months.
MickG0105
6th Oct 2016, 07:42
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, ...
The dimensions for the B717 and the Fokker F100 are interesting. On an uniformly flat surface, depending on weight, the F100 should have somewhere between -5cm - +20cm clearance (or lack thereof) over the Boeing. Looks like it was considerably closer to -5cm than +20cm, thus it was the worst of times.
onetrack
6th Oct 2016, 08:34
Seem to recall spotting the tails of two camouflage-coloured Caribou sticking up above the low native vegetation, whilst parked on the Corrigin airstrip (YCIG), on a summery late Saturday afternoon, about 1984 as I recall, when I was travelling Eastwards towards Corrigin on the Brookton Hwy.
Corrigin was used regularly for SAS parachuting exercises, but I'd never seen any Caribous parked up there, with dark-thirty coming on. They always went home for tea.
Somewhat puzzled at the apparent abandonment of a couple of prize items of RAAF armament, I pulled into the airstrip to "suss the situation out" (no airside security, no passes, not even a fence or gate, back in those glorious days!).
There wasn't even a picket stationed on the aircraft!!
A quick drive around the aircraft, and the horrifying and sickening evidence immediately became very obvious. Both aircraft were sporting a modest amount of wingtip damage!
It appears an ill-judged turn didn't take into account just how far that wing was sticking out!
I've no doubt come the following Monday, there were some serious repercussions in the CO's or Adjutants office, involving penalties, and possibly rank and status! - and I've always wanted to know what the final repair bill was! :)
AerialPerspective
6th Oct 2016, 17:16
Qantas reveals Paraburdoo Airport runway 'near miss' was a collision - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-06/planes-collided-on-paraburdoo-runway-qantas-admits/7907928?pfmredir=sm)
"Qantas reveals Paraburdoo Airport runway 'near miss' was a collision"
What a surprise. Nearly a near miss.
Typical media... Parabadoo 'runway'... deliberately misleading to get people's attention and make them think it was worse than it was... and while we're at it, I wish they'd stop calling it the tarmac... tarmac is a type of surface material. If it's not a runway or a taxiway it's an apron.
KRviator
6th Oct 2016, 20:02
OH&S people on large Minesites live for this sort of stuff, they will try and take over and run the whole investigation and with nil knowledge of aviation. Then put Qantas through the ringer and it will go on and on.
They will feast on this for months. Not necessarily. Though I certainly agree the OH&S wankers are just that...
Rio put one of their ore trains in the dirt in a very big way a few months ago and the ATSB has taken over the investigation - first time I can recall the ATSB investigating one of the Pilbara miners. I dare say this'll be the case here too.
Pappa Smurf
6th Oct 2016, 21:41
Rio own the airport,so a few forests cut down for the paper work.
One of the locals said the guy trying to stop the plane was an engineer working on the other.
Apparently everyone at PBO was going flat out yesterday to clear the backlog. Something like 11 flights in and out.
That apron has always been a tight squeeze but usually if a third 717 / 100 arrived when the bays were full, it would wait on the runway until the bay cleared. There might have been a reason for vacating the runway early but that is something for the companies and investigators to sort out. There is a third bay but limited from memory to F50 aircraft and below mainly due to pavement limitations.
RTIO will have themselves in a lather at the moment with the self appointed aviation experts (they call them "champions" :ugh: ) providing expert opinion to senior management.
Aerial Perspective
I wish they'd stop calling it the tarmac... tarmac is a type of surface material. If it's not a runway or a taxiway it's an apron. Even the cabin crew call it tarmac when doing the arrival announcement.
ranmar850
7th Oct 2016, 00:14
717 NXN still parked up at PBO this morning. Has not moved far since incident.
Dont be too harsh on the concept of "champions" uner the Rio system.They are not self-appointed,as such. RTIO has a standard for everything which relate back to the global RioTinto standards while recognising As/Nzs standards,and state and federal legislation. I should know, I was the C2 (electrical safety) champion on my old site.It is an internal RTIO appointment running in parallel with my statutory appointment.Think the rio aviation standard is C7 from memory.
Yes it is the C7 standard and those responsible for it generally SFA industry experience to draw on. One I can think of would have had trouble spelling "airport"
I wish they'd stop calling it the tarmac... tarmac is a type of surface material. If it's not a runway or a taxiway it's an apron.In British aviation literature the word "tarmac" has been used since at least the 1920's to the present day to describe the apron, or parking area. "Apron" has also had long usage, the two words being synonymous.
Wunwing
7th Oct 2016, 02:54
I started in aircraft engineering in the early 60s and it was definitely known as tarmac then. The reason being that the tarmac was black and well, tarmac. The hangar was concrete and white. So there were different rules for tarmac and hangar traffic and it was very easy to determine where this was by calling the tarmac, tarmac. Easy really so why complicate it?
Wunwing
Stanwell
7th Oct 2016, 04:55
That may well be so, chaps.
But .. what about the 'rampies' - where do they stand?
That may well be so, chaps.
But .. what about the 'rampies' - where do they stand?
Normally behind the equipment line when the aircraft is taxiing onto or off the bay.
Stanwell
7th Oct 2016, 07:05
Thanks, PJT.
Just as well we knew our place, then. :ok:
Icarus2001
7th Oct 2016, 10:18
Well the Townsville refueller heard from the lady in the coffee shop in Paraburdoo that her nephew said that the 717 was being "marshalled" at the time of the (non impact) (impact), QF PR choose your option in parentheses.
Puts a slightly different complexion on things, n'est pas?
Chris2303
7th Oct 2016, 10:34
Have they managed to divorce the aircraft yet?
airdualbleedfault
7th Oct 2016, 10:41
How exactly does one Marshall an aircraft out?
Have they managed to divorcePerhaps they're still consummating the marriage. :p
onetrack
7th Oct 2016, 23:20
Well, just goes to show, you can't trust those little Fokkers, they'll Fokk a Boeing, every chance they get! :p
Derfred
8th Oct 2016, 04:52
I've read the whole thread and I can't find a photo of Miss Paraburdoo...
Can anyone help? :8
Stanwell
8th Oct 2016, 05:49
I hear she comes into town from time to time, looking for a white cockatoo.
Yes, I know, I was leaving anyway.
ranmar850
8th Oct 2016, 09:41
Yes it is the C7 standard and those responsible for it generally SFA industry experience to draw on. One I can think of would have had trouble spelling "airport"
No argument from me, on FIFO sites it is usually given to the Senior EMO. No aviation knowledge required...lets just say that the C2 champion knew more about aviation than the C7 champion :-)
Clare Prop
9th Oct 2016, 16:39
Quaity reporting from The West Oz ...https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32812984/qantas-plane-grounded-after-runway-mishap/#page1
Gotta love eyewitness Will Snaith's observation
“We saw this guy jumping up and down outside the window, going, “Stop, stop stop’.
“The pilot taxied left and this guy’s jumping around waving his arms
"Mr Snaith said he could not understand why someone was shouting at the pilot from the runway, apparently without a radio.
I hope he was wearing hi-viz while shouting at the pilot from the runway or it could have been quite risky!
Car RAMROD
6th Feb 2017, 02:35
Report released, for anyone interested
Investigation: AO-2016-129 - Taxiing collision involving Boeing 717, VH-NXN, and Fokker F28 MK 0100, VH-NHF, Paraburdoo Airport, WA, on 5 October 2016 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2016/aair/ao-2016-129/)
I think my original hypothesis wasn't too far off the mark!
Chris2303
6th Feb 2017, 15:09
Seems like PBO needs to lay some more asphalt