Whopee! Medals for all!

[Red Line Entry]

The LS&GCM is now to be given to officers - maybe we're not expected to be well behaved anymore and so deserve a gong when we are.

15 years service for the medal and then clasps for every 10 years after that. Sorry Beagle, not available to those who left before 29 Jul 14.

Good news for Stn tailors everywhere!

[MPN11]

This is, I assume, 2014? :)

Oh, well, my conduct was usually good, so I'll have to settle for that!

[ExAscoteer]

I've often thought it strange that RAuxAF Officers got the Air Efficiency award, RAFVR(T) Officers get the Cadet Forces Medal, and ORs get the LS&GCM, whereas RAF Officers get jack.

[1.3VStall]

What ever happened to the "Cold War Medal" that was being talked about a couple of years ago? Dismissed on cost grounds I would imagine!

[MPN11]

I staffed a paper on the Officers' LS&GC when at MoD back in the early 90s.

Consensus then was that it was quite un-necessary, as an officer's Good Conduct was implicit. If it had not been, then the lack of the medal would show he/she had been a bad boy/girl, and advertise the fact to everyone ... not good for respect from subordinates, especially in an in-command appointment.

As for Long Service, what's special about staying in to earn a [relatively] decent pension?

I see it as a very different scenario to those officers in the Voluntary areas.

[NutLoose]

15 years service for the medal

The thing that always got me was that time served under 18 never counted.

[Wander00]

I am with MPN11 on this - and entirely without self interest, I have been "out" (in the Service sense) longer than I was "in". Officer's good conduct - goes with the parchment IMHO

[Whenurhappy]

I am with MPN11 on this - and entirely without self interest, I have been "out" (in the Service sense) longer than I was "in". Officer's good conduct - goes with the parchment IMHO

I have done over 30 years and accumulated 8 medals in the process. They are, however, all round ones. I'd quite like a medal with a clasp, but that would cost a mint (geddit?) to get mounted and I'm no longer in the q-wearing business. But I think it's a good idea and long overdue.

[Heathrow Harry]

Possibly beacuse tehre are realtively few occasions to dish out medals any more?

if our brass have to stand - up with officers from other countries they need a reasonable display of medals I guess

now for photos of N korean SO's..................

[Tankertrashnav]

What ever happened to the "Cold War Medal" that was being talked about a couple of years ago? Dismissed on cost grounds I would imagine!

Or possibly good sense prevailed!

TTN (Cold War Warrior!)

[Melchett01]

Has this been formally announced then? I know the intent to introduce an new Long Service award to include Regular Officers has been discussed for a couple of years, but I wasn't aware that anything had been formally announced about it e.g. as a DIN.

[Genstabler]

Ghastly idea, insulting and completely meaningless. How about a medal for passing staff college? Or for serving in MoD? Or for never having had a desk job? Smacks of half baked ideas from a minister or senior civil serpent who has never served in the military.

[BEagle]

It will be interesting to note what 'disqualifying' criteria will apply to this pointless bauble.

Stay schtum for 15 years, don't rock the boat, don't get caught speaking your mind and make sure you behave like a good little North Korean towards your boss, no matter how much of an orifice he might be?

I wonder how many future aircrew will actually stay in for 15 years?

[ian16th]

Nutty,
15 years service for the medal The thing that always got me was that time served under 18 never counted. The good news was that Boy Entrant/Apprentice conduct sheets were deleted on passing out!

It was just too easy to get put on jankers, almost a ritual of passage.

The really odd time was the 6 months between 17½ and 18th birthday. It counted for some thing but not others.

If you stayed in till pension, it counted as pensionable service. I didn't and it is in my discharge book as 'previous service'.

[Mahogany_Bomber]

BEagle,


Genuinely interested as to why you consider this a "pointless bauble". My own view is would fill an obvious gap in the contemporary system of medallic recognition.


MB

[MPN11]

Well, Mahogany Bomber, whilst it does as you say 'fill a gap', is it one that actually needs filling? Somehow I never felt the need for a medal saying I've not been Court Martialled (or some other criterion) and that I'd been in for 15+ years. Neither proved difficult for me to achieve, so why should I be given a medal for so doing?

MPN11, 30 years and no medals. :)

[Haraka]

It was amusing for me to see at least one ex- NCO, commissioned fairly late in his career, not then putting up his LSGCM ribbon so as not to betray his origins (he thought).

[Ken Scott]

Stay schtum for 15 years, don't rock the boat, don't get caught speaking your mind and make sure you behave like a good little North Korean towards your boss, no matter how much of an orifice he might be?




B***er. I was hoping for another medal to show how jolly brave I am....

[The Oberon]

Nutty,
The good news was that Boy Entrant/Apprentice conduct sheets were deleted on passing out!

It was just too easy to get put on jankers, almost a ritual of passage.

The really odd time was the 6 months between 17½ and 18th birthday. It counted for some thing but not others.

If you stayed in till pension, it counted as pensionable service. I didn't and it is in my discharge book as 'previous service'.
Ian, I think it was the other way round. LS&GCM from 17.5 and pension from 18. Still confusing though.

[MPN11]

Haraka ... or indeed a fellow ATCO in the 70s who stopped wearing his 2 WW2 medal ribbons after we teased him for being old!!

[dallas]

In my experience 1987-2009, an Integrity Medal would be a rare sight amongst many a chisseler aiming at the next rank, with no thought for the wake left behind. LS&GCM for officers? Who comes up with this cr@p?

[Wander00]

I recall Maj Bob Pomeroy the USAF member of the War Studies Team at the Towers, who had about 3 or 4 rows of medal ribbons, being teased at a dining-in night by the UK Military member (the then) Maj David Thorne, on the basis one medal was for chasing girls and another for catching them

[ShyTorque]

Where would you wear it anyway? I don't wear medals on my civilian clothes or uniform (although I have worked with some who did).

[NutLoose]

I always thought a good conduct stripe was a better idea, add them for being a good boy / girl and remove one when you are not.

[BEagle]

When the 'Specialist Aircrew' scheme was first mooted, apparently consideration was given to some form of distinguishing insignia - so those about to be able to opt for Spec Aircrew terms were consulted.

Once the discussion dropped to the level of 'secret handshakes', the sponsor sneaked back into his hole in the Air Box and nothing became of it all.

Perhaps there should also be a 'brown nose' medal for those chiselling thrusters amongst aircrew with 5 or more years in staff appointments shuffling paper rather than flying?

[MPN11]

Staff appointments interspesed with operational ones are an essential ingredient to career progression. If all you want to do is fly, go Spec Aircrew and forget about high rank ;)

Now, what do I get for c. 16 years in Staff appointments? The Ignoble Order of the Shiny Trouser?

[BEagle]

Now, what do I get for c. 16 years in Staff appointments?

Pity? Plus a lifetime supply of Penguin bars....;)

[ian16th]

The Oberon

Ian, I think it was the other way round. LS&GCM from 17.5 and pension from 18. Still confusing though. Its worse than I thought!
I've just dug out my Certificate of Service. My 'Previous Service' is listed as my time as a Boy Entrant.

Being one of the youngest Boys, I joined at 15 years and 66 days, I passed out still under 17½. There are 11 months from when I passed out of Boy's service to when my engagement started on my 18th birthday that are simply not recorded in my Certificate of Service.
In that period I was promoted twice from B/E to LAC to SAC!
How could that happen when I wasn't in the Service?

[NutLoose]

And it wouldn't show or count towards your pension, if any, even though you were contributing.

[ian16th]

Pension?

Had to do 22 to get a pension in them days.

I did have one pleasant surprise, the day I was demobbed I received £50 that I wasn't expecting.

This was apparently a 'gratuity' for completing 10 years service. When I actually did almost 13.

[Wander00]

NL - what do you get for being a VERY good girl? ....hat, coat...........

[Union Jack]

Sorry Beagle, not available to those who left before 29 Jul 14. - RLE

So not exactly "Whopee! Medals for all!" then.:rolleyes:

Incidentally, does "Whopee" mean that there will be a whip-round to pay for them....:D

Jack

[Wander00]

Depends on whether a whipping makes you "whoopee"

[Bob Viking]

What a bunch of bloody misery guts we have on here. Quelle surprise.

The government wants to give people who have devoted a fair portion of their life to public service a visible token of their appreciation and all some folks can do is whine about it.

We all know it's not a medal for being a hero and for some of us it might be all we have to show for a few years in the mob.

From what was discussed on this forum a few months back it'll be a long service medal without the good conduct portion being associated with it.

Regardless of that this should be embraced as a good news story. Until someone can categorically prove to me that squaddies are going without body armour or the VSOs have had to resort to Tesco value sausages for their lunch.

Lighten up, for the love of God.

BV

[Dougie M]

I cant see the point of degrading a perfectly legitimate award for airman service to assuage "bare chest" officer sensibilities. Since 2002 any serving officer will accrue one gizzit gong for service every ten years of Her Maj's Glorious Reign with the next one due in 2022. Then happy non combatant officers can sport a row of three like any police/fire/ambulanceman.

[Bob Viking]

For me it's not about assuaging anyone's sensibilities. It's about a little bit of credit where it's due. In our country we are so hard over on avoiding the US style bling that we turn our noses up at anything short of a gallantry award.

I can't say it's going to change my life to have one and if it wasn't awarded I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep but I don't see it as a bad thing.

I guess we shall have to just agree to disagree.

BV

[Jimlad1]

Having heard a bit about the drivers for this, the fact that regular officers are alone in not getting a long service medal among regular other ranks, and reservists at all ranks, was seen as an anonaly that rightly needed correcting. The driver for this was military and not civil servants, as some here seem to think.

[Pontius Navigator]

Possibly beacuse tehre are realtively few occasions to dish out medals any more?

if our brass have to stand - up with officers from other countries they need a reasonable display of medals I guess

now for photos of N korean SO's..................
Actually there are far more occasions than heretofore. The jubilee and South Atlantic medals were the only common medals after the Korean War besides the GSM and LSGC Then came the Bosnian, Gulf etc etc and now 10 or so is not uncommon.

[Sloppy Link]

The thing that always got me was that time served under 18 never counted.

Assuming the same for all three services, time from 17 1/2 is reckonable service towards the award of LS&GC.

[MSOCS]

“The object of giving medals, stars and ribbons is to give pride and pleasure to those who have deserved them. At the same time a distinction is something which everybody does not possess. If all have it, it is of less value. There must, therefore, be heart-burnings and disappointments on the borderline. A medal glitters, but it also casts a shadow. The task of drawing up regulations for such awards is one which does not admit of a perfect solution. It is not possible to satisfy everybody without running the risk of satisfying nobody. All that is possible is to give the greatest satisfaction to the greatest number and to hurt the feelings of the fewest.”

Winston Churchill – 22nd March 1944

[Wander00]

Is there nothing on which Churchill did not pronounce, usually with unerring common sense. Difficult to counter that (IMHO of course)

[Pontius Navigator]

Wander, very true. I got one of my workers a commendation and was confronted by another spitting feathers. Told her tough titty, grow up.

[Onceapilot]

A little strange if the LS medal is only to be awarded to those still serving in 2014 onwards? Apart from the cost!:oh: I would have thought that, if the LS medal is designed to balance the situation with the LS&GCM, surely it must be available retrospectively, just as other awards that were missed but earned in the past! The argument that "it did not exist at that time so, it could not be earned" is specious as, the award did not exist until now and, therefore, no one should earn it on that basis till 2029!:ooh: Idiots.

OAP

[mopardave]

Then happy non combatant officers can sport a row of three like any police/fire/ambulanceman.


.....and there were those of us who didn't bother. I probably wore mine once or twice......then when a member of public made an assumption I must have done something incredibly brave........I took them straight off because I felt a fraud........never wore them again. I only ever knew one person who was refused his on the grounds that he'd pressed his bare a*se cheeks against a window at a retirement function when the then Divisional Commander took to the stage. There were those who did far worse and got them. Just struck me as slightly pointless.

[NutLoose]

A little strange if the LS medal is only to be awarded to those still serving in 2014 onwards? Apart from the cost!:oh: I would have thought that, if the LS medal is designed to balance the situation with the LS&GCM, surely it must be available retrosectively, just as other awards that were missed but earned in the past! The argument that "it did not exist at that time so, it could not be earned" is specious as, the award did not exist until now and, therefore, no one should earn it on that basis till 2029!http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/icon25.gif Idiots.

OAP That opens up an expensive bag of worms, you could argue the same case for the Silver Jubilee medal that only went to a few to save costs, where the Diamond one was awarded to every Tom, Dick and Harriet.
Surely the 2014 is simply a cut off date, so if you were serving in 2014 and had the requisite time in service you would receive it, however if you departed in 2013 you wouldn't.

[MATELO]

Ah, Sqn Ldr Precise, it gives me great pleasure to present you with your long gong.


...... you not got one of these then Boss??

[Jumping_Jack]

Has this been officially announced or is this still just a rumour? I have found no mention of the various official websites.

[FantomZorbin]

still serving in 2014 onwards ... to save on the expense of providing for most of those made redundant I assume!

[Skeleton]

As mere SLF and grabber of back seats whenever possible, I never ever "got" in 27 years why Ociffers did not qualify and I did ask. Long overdue but the backdate period is way to short and obviously a money saving exercise. To those that qualify welcome to the club.

[Bob Viking]

From Wikipedia, so it must be true:

In March 2015 the intention to introduce a single new long service medal for all three Service Arms was announced by the United Kingdom's Government, to replace the Medal for Long Service and Good Conduct (Military), the Naval Long Service and Good Conduct Medal (1848) and the Royal Air Force Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. The proposed medal will be awarded after fifteen years of service, regardless of rank, and while the good conduct element of the award criteria will remain, it will only apply to the last five years of the fifteen-year aggregate time served requirement. With this medal officers, who have had no medallic recognition for long service unless they were commissioned after serving at least twelve years in the ranks, will also be rewarded for their dedication. Subject to agreement from Her Majesty The Queen, a new medal design will be commissioned and the first presentations should take place in 2016.

BV

[Wander00]

I had a sqn ldr working for me who whinged somewhat that I had got a colleague an MBE, why not him. I told him his time would come - it did- overseas staff college and overseas tour (for second tour in rank), OBE after tour in next rank, tour in Washington, tour in Germany where he spent most of his time in a helicopter, and a defence attaché tour. We still laugh about the original whinge!

[Mick Strigg]

Bugger! I left full time service in 2013 so I do not qualify. I joined the Reserves the day after I left, but due to age constraints, I will not qualify for the Reserves Medal either. Therefore I will have nothing to show for over 42 years in uniform. Shame!

[Dougie M]

If BV's Wikipedia report #50 is to be believes and the first presentation will be in 2016 then the year for the start of reckonable service must be 2001, so the qualification pre dates the 2013 exclusion. My FiL received his Canal Zone GSM and his Bomber Command clasp the year before he passed on. He said "Blimey, they cut that a bit fine". It was only 60 years after the event. This LSGC medal has lots of legs yet.

[Melchett01]

The DIN went live either late yesterday or early today, so yep, now all official.

No new medal just a re-working of the criteria for the original LS&GCs. Backdated to Jun 2014 to tie in with the date of when the Holmes Review was accepted by HMG / MOD.

Interestingly, Reserve service doesn't count towards it at all, so if you left the Regulars with 13 years under your belt, and went straight to the Reserves for 5 years, despite 18 years under the Colours, you wouldn't qualify for the LS&GC but it would go towards whatever the Reserves long service medal is.

[MPN11]

As mentioned the last time this was discussed, it's possibly a shame that the 'Elder Bretheren' aren't allowed to purchase. But I guess the Admin load would be excessive.

[Jimlad1]

Moaning about missing the qualifying date is a bit like saying "I joined the Army the day after VJ Day and didnt qualify for the WW2 medals". Some you win, some you lose.

The reserves already have a long service medal (VRSM) which can allow some regular service (I believe) to count towards reserve service in some cases.

Ultimately there are bound to be a small number of people who feel they've missed out, but overall its not a bad solution going forward.

[MPN11]

Aye, Jimlad1, its just that some of us are getting a bit short on the 'going forward' stakes ;)

[Mahogany_Bomber]

Prior to this announcement commissioned service in the UK Regular Forces could already count (in various proportions and with several caveats) towards the VRSM, LS&GCM and various Commonwealth Long Service awards, so the principle of recognising some commissioned service for LS awards was already in place. All this change does is enable all (rather than some) commissioned service to count, with an additional amendment to time served for a clasp (10 years vice 15). Simply evolution.

[NutLoose]

Bugger! I left full time service in 2013 so I do not qualify. I joined the Reserves the day after I left, but due to age constraints, I will not qualify for the Reserves Medal either. Therefore I will have nothing to show for over 42 years in uniform. Shame! Cheer up Mick, you are entitled to a FREE Veterans badge :E:p

[Tankertrashnav]

Medals to reservists have been mentioned, such as the old Air Efficiency Award and its replacement, the Volunteer Reserves Service Medal, which came in in 1999. There was an anomaly with the old AEA, in that officers who held the medal were entitled to use the post nominal letters AE, whereas non commissioned holders were not. This was probably to be in line with the RN and the army, whose reserve officers had a separate medal to other ranks, and were entitled to post-nominal letters.

From 2015, holders of the VRSM from all three services are now entitled to use the post-nominal letters VR, irrespective of rank. Can't have been well advertised, my neighbour, who is a Lt Cdr, RNR, and has the VRSM was unaware of this, but was totally underwhelmed when I gave him the good news!

Talking of post nominal letters it is a fact that army officers in the Volunteer Force who had the old Volunteer Decoration were entitled to the post nominal letters VD. There must have been some relief when the VD was replaced with the Territorial Decoration (TD) in 1908!

[MPN11]

Yeah, my father had TD ... pleased he didn't have the other ;)

[Sloppy Link]

Moaning about missing the qualifying date is a bit like saying "I joined the Army the day after VJ Day and didnt qualify for the WW2 medals". Some you win, some you lose.

The reserves already have a long service medal (VRSM) which can allow some regular service (I believe) to count towards reserve service in some cases.

Ultimately there are bound to be a small number of people who feel they've missed out, but overall its not a bad solution going forward.
One year of regular service counts as half to VRSM to a maximum of five, therefore seven and half years Reserves plus five years Regular service gets the medal, eight years Regular plus six years Reserves does not.

[Jimlad1]

Obviously thats a shame, but as Reserve Service doesnt qualify for the Regular award, I have no particular issue if there is a threshold. As with all medals, some qualify, some dont, and ultimately its not really an issue.

[Bigpants]

I feel that all those who have flown in the Grob Tutor including the cadets should receive a medal. The Medal should be made from plastic, the points should fall off shortly after being worn and all should contain cracks.....

The Medal should made by a contractor and very, very expensive.

[skippedonce]

Has this been formally announced then? I know the intent to introduce an new Long Service award to include Regular Officers has been discussed for a couple of years, but I wasn't aware that anything had been formally announced about it e.g. as a DIN. Better than a DIN; have a JSP. Look at Section 5.06.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557785/JSP761_Part1.pdf

[NutLoose]

Interesting forward

People lie at the heart of operational capability; attracting and retaining the right numbers of capable, motivated individuals to deliver Defence outputs is critical. This is dependent upon maintaining a credible and realistic offer that earns and retains the trust of people in Defence. Part of earning and retaining that trust, and being treated fairly, is a confidence that the rules and regulations that govern our activity are relevant, current, fair and transparent. Please understand, know and use this JSP, to provide that foundation of rules and regulations that will allow that confidence to be built.

JSP 761 is the authoritative guide for Honours and Awards in the Armed Services. It gives instructions on the award of Orders, Decorations and Medals and sets out the list of Honours and Awards that may be granted; detailing the nomination and recommendation procedures for each. It also provides information on the qualifying criteria for and permission to wear campaign medals, foreign medals and medals awarded by international organisations. It should be read in conjunction with Queen’s Regulations and DINs which further articulate detailed direction and specific criteria agreed by the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals [Orders, Decorations and Medals (both gallantry and campaign)] or Foreign and Commonwealth Office [foreign medals and medals awarded by international organisations].


So basically he is saying reward them with a bit of shiny bling to try and retain them. If you want to motivate and retain people, food, accomodation, pay, and pensions are the way forward, not a bit of tin.

Reading the link, it is now from attestation regardless of age to qualify for the long gong, strange the likes of the MSM that requires the reciprocant to have the long gong is still from 17 1/2 years old.


..

[Lima Juliet]

Looks like an almighty cock up to me for some. Those that are serving but will be ineligble although giving full-time service to Her Majesty will be anyone who has transfered to FTRS prior to 2014 regardless of having 15 years or more in the Regulars. However, as already stated to get the VRSM then those FTRS officers will need to complete 5 years in the Regulars to get 2.5 years of VRSM eligibility, then a further 5 years as FTRS to get the award of the maximum 5 years of full qualifying service, then a further 5 years for the ensuing 1/2 qualifying service after 5 years FTRS to accrue the final 2.5 years of the 10 years to qualify - total Service time for FTRS for the VRSM is thus 15 years which is the same as the new LS & GC Medal, but way more than other Reserves for the VRSM by 5 years.

So any officer who joined as FTRS prior to 29 Jul 2014 at age 48 or more and retires at the normal retirement date of age 60 will get neither the new LS & GC Medal nor the VRSM - even though they have more than 15 years of Regular service. That is up to 2026 for a 48 year old in 2014 who may in the end have given over 42 years of service. There are likely an awful lot of these FTRS in all 3 Services who have been stabbed in the back despite their continuing full-time service to HM Forces.

As ever FTRS have been let down and forgotten; the same way as the FTRS HC and LC are the only Regular and Reserves who don't get home to duty allowances. Whole Force? Yeah, right....:mad:

Can we change the title of the thread to "Whoopee! Medals for (not quite) all!"

PS - I'm all right Jack! :ok:

LJ

[reynoldsno1]

It was amusing for me to see at least one ex- NCO, commissioned fairly late in his career, not then putting up his LSGCM ribbon so as not to betray his origins (he thought).
I knew a USAF Lt.Col who had a medal that was (is?) specifically awarded to officers who were originally enlisted men. He said it was the medal he was most proud of.

[57mm]

For our civilian colleagues, an LS & GC medal is the equivalent of a clock presented for time served with the company......

[NutLoose]

Except when you retire, the RAF gets the watch from you, not the other way around.

[Wander00]

NL - very droll, but true

[superplum]

....PS - I'm all right Jack! :ok:

LJ


Me too! LS & GCM with Clasp (twice the distance).

:)

[Pontius Navigator]

I knew a USAF Lt.Col who had a medal that was (is?) specifically awarded to officers who were originally enlisted men. He said it was the medal he was most proud of.
Ah, but therein lies the difference, class and snobbery.

[plans123]

The cynic in me says this is just a thinly veiled attempt to increase medal count on blunty number 1's so they don't look quite so bad when parading with airmen and NCO's with a chest-full these days... ;)

[rock34]

I heard it was a GEMs idea from a Stn tailor........

[Tankertrashnav]

Ah, but therein lies the difference, class and snobbery.

I believe that when many West Indians were heading for the UK, General Colin Powell's parents moved to the US to seek their fortune. When he was asked what he might have become if his family had moved to the UK instead, he replied "I'd probably have made WO2 in the British army".

[brakedwell]

I don't like been called a veteran :*

[Wander00]

It is better than being called "old" or an "OAP", or even by Mrs W a "Grumpy Old Man"

[Genstabler]

"I'd probably have made WO2 in the British army".
Is that a criticism or a compliment?

[Jumping_Jack]

Slightly irritated that this meaningless medal is going to cost me £50 to have mounted just for the full size, let alone for the miniature. Great way to reward me and make me feel valued......:hmm:

[NutLoose]

I don't like been called a veteran http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/bah.gif

Not a problem, I will call you Tulip from now on, that's got a nice ring to it. :)

[brakedwell]

:):):):):)It is better than being called "old" or an "OAP", or even by Mrs W a "Grumpy Old Man"

Boring old fart is a common phrase in our household, and my conduct has always been questionable.

[langleybaston]

BoF with a nice ring?

Naughty thoughts.

In my family I fear that I am the FMH.

Answers on a postcard ..............

[Pontius Navigator]

Slightly irritated that this meaningless medal is going to cost me £50 to have mounted just for the full size, let alone for the miniature. Great way to reward me and make me feel valued......:hmm:
JJ, tax deductible of course.

[Rosevidney1]

​A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon.

--Napoleon Bonaparte

[Tankertrashnav]

I was scratching my head trying to think of that quote, Rosevidney - thanks!

[Melchett01]

JJ, tax deductible of course.

Uniform upkeep deductions are made at source, so I guess it depends if this is considered to be covered by that.

[rock34]

JJ - be grateful its only going to cost you £50.......

[brakedwell]

Does climbing the greasy pole count as a fight ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Melchett, to a point. I did an exercise some years ago, easily repeatable, based on the whole life cycle cost of replao your working clothing over 5 years. The cost was exactly equal to the annual tax relief at source at 20% tax relief - for simplicity £400 relief = £80 and 5 year cost equalled £400.

If you replaced any #1 items, hat, gloves, shoes, uniform, shirts or #5 these were on top of maintaining your working dress. Keep receipts, claim extra.

The same applies to the difference between PTR mileage alloiwance and 45p/mile. Some people reckon it's not worth the bother but if you have to file a tax return, why not?

[Melchett01]

Melchett, to a point. I did an exercise some years ago, easily repeatable, based on the whole life cycle cost of replao your working clothing over 5 years. The cost was exactly equal to the annual tax relief at source at 20% tax relief - for simplicity £400 relief = £80 and 5 year cost equalled £400.

If you replaced any #1 items, hat, gloves, shoes, uniform, shirts or #5 these were on top of maintaining your working dress. Keep receipts, claim extra.

The same applies to the difference between PTR mileage alloiwance and 45p/mile. Some people reckon it's not worth the bother but if you have to file a tax return, why not?

True, but I doubt I'll repeat the 5k rebate I got for mileage with my medals, I'm not Kenny Everett or American you know!

[ian16th]

Question.

One has a Certificate of Service that shows Decorations = 0

Half a century later HM Government decide to increment that to Decorations = 1

Does one need to have ones Certificate of Service annotated?

If so, by whom?

[Tankertrashnav]

No need to worry Ian - the GSM (for Cyprus wasn't it?) is not a decoration, merely a medal ;). I have the GSM for South Arabia, but like you I am also in possession of no decorations.

[ian16th]

TTN

I bow to your superior knowledge.

Just what are 'decorations' in this context? Gallantry medals and things such as MBE's?

[oldpax]

Veterans badge is free!!Just apply.It comes in a neat little box as well!!!

[brakedwell]

I lost mine :E

[Ken Scott]

Whilst perusing this thread having just viewed 'the unstoppable Derek Oldham' one covering his 50 years of service in the RAF, it occurred to me that as he transferred to the reserves 3 years ago after 'only' 47 years of regular time he probably won't be eligible for a LS medal. Somewhat ironic given that he's likely to be the longest serving RAF officer ever?

[Tankertrashnav]

Just what are 'decorations' in this context? Gallantry medals and things such as MBE's?

The MBE comes in the category of "Orders", ie everything from the Most Noble Order of the Garter to the The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Precedence among orders is basically in chronological order of the founding of the order (lots of "orders" in that sentence, but you get what I mean!).

"Decorations" are what we would understand as gallantry awards, such as the DFC, AFC etc.

[Pontius Navigator]

I lost mine :E
Write in, they will send a second free (that valuable). I believe the third etc will cost you.

[brakedwell]

Thanks PN, i will save up for a stamp.

[Onceapilot]

Nice observation Ken! Seems to me that the LS award should be backdated and effectively mirror the LS&GCM.:ok:

OAP

[ian16th]

TTN

The MBE comes in the category of "Orders", ie everything from the Most Noble Order of the Garter to the The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Precedence among orders is basically in chronological order of the founding of the order (lots of "orders" in that sentence, but you get what I mean!).

"Decorations" are what we would understand as gallantry awards, such as the DFC, AFC etc. Thanks for that.

It really is good to have your expertise available on these things.:ok:

[Lima Juliet]

Whilst perusing this thread having just viewed 'the unstoppable Derek Oldham' one covering his 50 years of service in the RAF, it occurred to me that as he transferred to the reserves 3 years ago after 'only' 47 years of regular time he probably won't be eligible for a LS medal. Somewhat ironic given that he's likely to be the longest serving RAF officer ever?

Yes, just as I said in post #67, Derek wouldn't qualify for the LS&GCM or the VRSM. It's absolute crock of **** the qualification period. There will be many stuck between having retired into full-time reserve service but unable to qualify for either medal. Personally, I think the LS&GCM should be for any full-time service, and that the VRSM should be for the part-time volunteer reserve only. So FTRS can then add any full-time reserve service to their full-time regular service with none of this 'half qualifying' carp - surely, you either qualify or you don't!!!

LJ

[Heathrow Harry]

I've always though that for most Civvy orders we should go back to the practise of James VI & I and auction them off to teh highest bidder

Say 1 Dukedom every 5 years, 1 Earl and a couple of Viscounts a year and maybe just a standing fee for Knighthood - say £ 1 mm....................

rotate the auction between the BBC & ITV and make some cash on the TV rights.

[MPN11]

So how much for me to purchase my well-deserved LS&GC and Bar?

[Heathrow Harry]

£ 9.99- priced to SELL!!!

[MPN11]

I'll take one for me, and one for my wife, both with Bar please. Do we get a multi-buy discount? ;)


"But wait! ... order in the next 5 minutes and we will send you not one but TWO of these desirable trinkets. Just pay shipping and handling ... "

[Heathrow Harry]

You have to register your Bank Account details first.......................

[MPN11]

Damn ... your profile says London, not Nigeria :)

[Banana Boy]

LJ,

You are perfectly correct in my case, left Regular service in 2008 after 22.5 years, had an overlapping start date in the Reserves, ready to go. Am still serving, with a continuous commission for over 30 years, ....that gets me......sweet FA! Oh well, one less to get mounted. I shall just have people thinking that I have been a naughty boy and do not deserve any recognition for my advancing years.

BB

[NutLoose]

Bananaboy.

Just tell them you have not got one. because they were solely brought out to appease the petulant trinket grabbing Chav brigade who would sell their soul for a bit of tacky bling, and those with real service behind them do not need a bit of tin to impress or to massage their own ego's.

[57mm]

Nutloose, nail on head. Isn't it about time we closed this thread?

[Onceapilot]

Hi there 57mm. Are you a mod after 3 months? :ok:

OAP

[Ken Scott]

because they were solely brought out to appease the petulant trinket grabbing Chav brigade who would sell their soul for a bit of tacky bling, and those with real service behind them do not need a bit of tin to impress or to massage their own ego's.


NutLoose: ok, playing 'devil's advocate', is that what you think all the airmen & reservists are, the 'chav brigade who would sell their soul for a bit of tacky bling'? They all proudly (I assume) receive their LSGCMs without (I presume) thinking that it's only being given to 'massage their egos'. If not, & it's genuinely awarded to recognise their long service (& in their case good conduct) then why should the same not be done for regular officers?

[BEagle]

...why should the same not be done for regular officers?

Perhaps all regular officers, irrespective of any artificial cut-off date, should be eligible?

I stress 'regular'. Most FTRS mercenaries probably don't fall into this category - and why should they?

[MPN11]

Our esteemed Lt Gov, Sir John McColl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McColl), has just had to have his rack rebuilt, having recently been made a Knight of St John. Will he/can he go for the LS&GC as well, or has he got enough to carry around already?

And, having retired as DSACEUR in 2011, is he even eligible? Or does his service as Lt Gov , 2011-date still count?

[Onceapilot]

I fall outside the cut-off date, despite 36+ yrs service, but agree with you re: cut-off date Beagle.:ok:

OAP

[ICM]

Well, it would appear that the LSGCM awards have begun at the top:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-queen-and-duke-of-edinburgh-receive-long-service-and-good-conduct-medals

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

the clasp to the medal will be awarded for every further period of 10 years served

Does this mean that airmen only have to do an extra 10 years to get their bar or is it still 15 years for them?


Aaron.

[Mahogany_Bomber]

I can't work out whether some of the disparaging comments being made are genuinely held beliefs or individuals simply being deliberately provocative. Are we really such curmudgeons as to begrudge personnel who have served for for the prerequisite period the medallic recognition which is available to their non-commissioned and reservist peers? I accept that there will quite naturally be differences of opinion on qualifying service and start date, but surely the underlying principle of equity is easy to accept?


The LS&GCMs have undergone a number of significant amendments since their inception and this is simple another step in an ongoing medallic evolutionary process. This change was proposed unprompted by Sir John Holmes in his medal report; as an outsider looking in he identified what he considered to be a clear and illogical anomally, which consequently he suggested might be addressed.


Wearing a medal for which I would have qualified had I not taken my commission makes me a chav with a need to massage my own ego, apparently. Having already spent 25 years in the service, undertaken my fair share of op tours and served both in the ranks and as an officer I will wear my LS&GCM (and clasp!) with pride (does that count as ego massaging?) That admission clearly means that I haven't undertaken what NutLoose refers to as "real service", whatever that might be. I await enlightenment.


If it's good enough for HM it's good enough for me.


MB

[Pontius Navigator]

MB, I think more self-righteous pprunere by those denied the medal through the chosen date. If the Arctic Star can be back dated there is only one logical reason the LS can't be - cost.

Not just the cost of the medal but the mass of administration handling the requests. The Veterans' badge was relatively easy - check records, issue badge*, LS would need far more effort.

*I tried to have my VB 're done with a clutch pin. The jeweller said it was so cheap she could not do it as the badge would melt. Medals are rather more expensive.

[Tankertrashnav]

Medals are rather more expensive.

Some are. I think it was Beagle who commented on another thread that if you unscrewed the mount on the 2002 QGJM and heated it up you could pour the chocolate out of it! Maybe a slight exaggeration, but that was a really cheap and nasty medal. So much so that shortly after it came out a repro version came out which sold for more than an original!

[November4]

Well, it would appear that the LSGCM awards have begun at the top:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-queen-and-duke-of-edinburgh-receive-long-service-and-good-conduct-medals
Shouldn't the Duke of Edinburgh also be awarded the Army and RAF LS&GC medals as well as he has been a Colonel of various regiments since 1953 and MRAF since the same year.

[Pontius Navigator]

N4, with rather a lot of bars.

[November4]

According to the article in the link, he had 6 bars to his RN LS&GC for 75 years service.

The Queen "only" had 5 bars on each of her medals

[Melchett01]

Well, it would appear that the LSGCM awards have begun at the top:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/t...conduct-medals

There is an official batting order for receipt of these - in the RAF anyway. Senior Leadership Team get theirs first, followed by those in public facing roles, with everybody else being done alphabetically by Branch. They reckon they will start to send 100 names per week to the Medal Office and it should take 18 months to complete.

[NutLoose]

NutLoose: ok, playing 'devil's advocate', is that what you think all the airmen & reservists are, the 'chav brigade who would sell their soul for a bit of tacky bling'? They all proudly (I assume) receive their LSGCMs without (I presume) thinking that it's only being given to 'massage their egos'. If not, & it's genuinely awarded to recognise their long service (& in their case good conduct) then why should the same not be done for regular officers? Wearing a medal for which I would have qualified had I not taken my commission makes me a chav with a need to massage my own ego, apparently. Having already spent 25 years in the service, undertaken my fair share of op tours and served both in the ranks and as an officer I will wear my LS&GCM (and clasp!) with pride (does that count as ego massaging?) That admission clearly means that I haven't undertaken what NutLoose refers to as "real service", whatever that might be. I await enlightenment.No cross to bear here, I was trying to make Banaboy feel better.

But no other industry I know of awards anything for 15 years service, personally I feel the only reason it has been brought out is as a cheap retention tool to try and assist in stemming the flow of experienced personnel out of the services, as the other methods do not appear to be working as much as they had hoped for, after all, what does it cost, a couple of pence to make?
Cheap at twice the price if it aids retention.

I tell a lie

Asda ensures long-service awards are well celebrated. As well as celebrating one year’s service, the supermarket rewards staff at five year intervals.
After completing one to 10 years’ service, employees receive a certificate and a pin badge recognising their loyalty. After 15 and 20 years’ service, they are given a monetary voucher to the value of £15 or £20.
This year, Asda introduced the recognition of length of service on name badges for employees who have worked there for one year or more.
Asda also holds an annual ‘Big Anniversary’ event for all staff who have completed 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 and 50 years’ service. These employees are invited to a a party and receive £300 and an extra week’s holiday in their anniversary year.
Kevin Trott, colleague engagement team leader-recognition and incentives at Asda, says: “Long service definitely engages colleagues in our business and makes it their business as well. It has a significant impact on our motivation mechanism.”


https://www.employeebenefits.co.uk/issues/november-2011-online/long-service-awards-still-have-value/


That's probably worth more than the medal costs!

Popular long-service awards


Holidays, for example to Las Vegas or Paris



Afghanistan... Iraq.. Libya.... ;)


.

[Ken Scott]

And don't McDonalds staff get stars on their name badges to reflect their service?

Can any ex-Navs confirm this.........?

[Wensleydale]

And don't McDonalds staff get stars on their name badges to reflect their service?

Can any ex-Navs confirm this.........?


Well somebody has to fry the chips for the pilots' shoulders.

[MPN11]

At a tangent, I tracked The Gazette for Sir John McColl's recent K StJ.

Appointed Jersey's Lt Gov in September 2011.
Becomes Patron of St John Ambulance in Jersey [as one would expect]
Appointed Commander (Brother) April 2012 (https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-60119-1574655)
Appointed Knight August 2016 (https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2589550)

No disrespect, Sir, but you must be bloody good at tying bandages! Talk about a 'cascade' of awards for 'being there'.

Am I moody about not getting my LS&GC? Just a bit, to be honest, when I look at that.

[reynoldsno1]

But no other industry I know of awards anything for 15 years service
I get 9 weeks extra paid leave when I retire ...

[NutLoose]

I got 4 weeks when leaving the Services, that just makes sense, if anyone was going to cause mayhem in their last days service, they have a period where they are still under military rule after they have gone where they could be disciplined.

I know someone who in a none military service was on his last day and was told that he wouldn't be allowed to leave until he cleared his desk of all outstanding paperwork, he did, he shredded the lot and walked out at 5 pm into retirement.

[Tankertrashnav]

charliegolf, I have tried to reply to your query about a lost medal, but your inbox is full. I might as well post it on here as it may well be of interest to others.

The address to write to when requesting a replacement for a lost/stolen medal is

MOD Medal office
Innsworth House
Imjin Barracks
Innsworth
Gloucester
GL3 1HW

This is the address for all medal queries, including initial claims. Some years ago I made a successful claim for a medal which my late father had never been issued with, but they will not replace claims for lost family medals once the recipient is deceased. It's worth pointing out that the service is not free, and the sums involved are not trivial, over £50 for a replacement GSM as I recall, although of course there is no charge for an initial issue.

[TwoTunnels]

Just wondering if any aircrew qualify for the Op NEWCOMBE (Mali) GSM 2008. I know that absolutely NONE of the Sentinel aircrew qualify although many did op missions over Mali. They didn't qualify on days in Th as supporting Op HERRICK at the same time and dets were short and sweet.
I'm assuming the criteria was written by Navy types as I believe that you were ok if you were a sailor onboard a ship at 20N 10W for 45 days.

TT

[ian16th]

Nutty
But no other industry I know of awards anything for 15 years service,

My grateful civilian employer presented me with a clock after 10 years service!

[Melchett01]

Nutty


My grateful civilian employer presented me with a clock after 10 years service!

I got an all expenses paid 3 month holiday. Sun, sand and indirect fire!

[Tinribs]

After twenty years I did not get a clock but they did take my watch away

[tailchase]

The LS&GCM is now to be given to officers - maybe we're not expected to be well behaved anymore and so deserve a gong when we are.

15 years service for the medal and then clasps for every 10 years after that. Sorry Beagle, not available to those who left before 29 Jul 14.

Good news for Stn tailors everywhere!


Yet another scheme that FTRS who have rejoined after long and industrious careers won't benefit from pity that acculative service couldn't be used to qualify.

[Onceapilot]

I had a little think about this LS medal!:rolleyes: Two other points strike me: It is, by definition, a recognition of previous service. Strange then, that it will only be awarded to a tiny fraction of those who have actually done that service.:oh: And, I still can't understand the cut-off date? Surely this needs sorting-out and backdating 70 years, or so?:D

OAP

[Ken Scott]

OAP - but at what cost? Defence budget spent on 'bling' can't be spent elsewhere & if the intention is to acknowledge those still in productive service & perhaps make them feel better about that service, even to the point of not leaving or signing on, then that might be considered money well spent. Dishing out medals to retired folk? Where's the 'return' for that?

A line was 'drawn in the sand' as to qualification, presumably to maximise the benefit to the MOD whilst minimising the expense & as with any line some people will be on the wrong side & unhappy, but you'll never please everybody - even giving medals to everybody alive whose ever served 15 years wouldn't do that judging by some of the opinions expressed here.

All 'Devil's advocacy' of course rather than personal opinion.

[Dougie M]

Ken
If the issue of a LSGC is not backdated due to cost then one can only look at the precedent of the award of the Arctic Medal and GSM for the Canal Zone together with the Bomber Command bar (a travesty). They were campaigned for over 70 years and in conclusion awarded to all ranks.
The surviving members of the Officer Corps, past and present with 15 years service would probably not require an extra "print run" of LSGCs which exceeds the 10 thousand odd Afghan medals awarded. Maybe TTN has a view.

[Onceapilot]

Ken S
If you consider your first paragraph, there is no point in medals, why would they introduce any? I disagree with your second para because, anyone who does not wish to have their medal can ignore it.:hmm: Also, the process of medal qualification has long been officially upheld as a fair process that attempts to reflect merit. Where ommisions or errors in qualification criteria are recognised, ammendments have been made to the criteria. I suggest that the present 2014 in-service onwards cut-off date is a serious error. Any other reason would imply that the long service of officers who left before that date did not deserve the award!:oh:

OAP

[Whenurhappy]

Those who decry medals seem to be those who miss out on the qualification, but I do understand the sensitivities of the cut-off date. I've worn each and every medal that I have been awarded with pride. The UK is honourably strict with medal criteria so I think that a medal indicating 15 (or more) years' service is a small recognition from the Sovereign that does mean a lot to the individual. As mentioned before, I've accumulated a few Op medals and a foreign one over the last 20-odd years so perhaps it is a bit lost on me, however the opportunities for me to wear medals except at, say, Remembrance Day, are vanishingly few.

This is a very positive move, long overdue and issued with equanimity.

[Onceapilot]

Whenurhappy
You are spot-on to say "the sensitivities of the cut-off date". Usually, as you will know, medals for Ops also have strict other criteria for qualification but, in this case, the LS medal award hinges purely on the worthy merit of time served. Unfortunately, whatever the intent, the ridiculous imposition of an in the service cut-off date so recent has made the award a laughing-stock.:mad: Ridiculous

OAP

[Tankertrashnav]

The surviving members of the Officer Corps, past and present with 15 years service would probably not require an extra "print run" of LSGCs which exceeds the 10 thousand odd Afghan medals awarded. Maybe TTN has a view.

Well as someone who won't be entitled no matter how far back they backdate it (only 12 years reckonable service) I suppose I can be neutral. Personally I think that any surviving officer who meets the length of service criteria should be able to apply no matter how long ago his or her service. Shame I won't be getting one to sit beside my lonely GSM!

[1.3VStall]

TTN,

I actually agree with you. After nearly 28 years service I retired completely bare chested. Two wars during my shift - Falklands and GW 1 - and I was a Whitehall warrior for both, so no opportunity to earn bling. I don't care personally, except, as I finally depart the fix, it would be nice to leave my lad with a meaningful memento of my military service, rather than a veteran's badge, which has never come out of it's box! (I have my Dad's gongs, which I value).

[Onceapilot]

Personally I think that any surviving officer who meets the length of service criteria should be able to apply no matter how long ago his or her service.

Well said TTN, and I agree. Having messed this up, in spades, the date of retirement limitation should be removed.:D

OAP

[Jimlad1]

There are always cut off points for medals, and people will always find a reason to be grumpy about this. The issue is that the MOD is perenially stretched for cash, and the cost of minting and more importantly hiring enough staff to handle the backlog of claims and ascertain eligibility is a not insignificant amount of cash.

If the lack of the medal annoys people that much then buy one privately - no one will stop you. The best way to look at it is some you win, some you loose, but its probably not worth getting too grumpy about. Enjoy the cash saved by not having to get it remounted!

[Onceapilot]

Aha Jimlad. Great to read your blind support of the status quo, as usual.:rolleyes:
If the UKGov/MOD is that strapped for cash, I suggest that they review a damn sight more before curtailing the criteria for awards and medals due to cost! Now, they could review the eligibility for free issue but, to go and define the merit of the award as limited by such a recent in-service date is an administrative contrivance that devalues the award itself to worthlessness and ridicule.:oh: Is that the intention of this move?

OAP

[Jimlad1]

I'm not blindly supporting the status quo. I have a good understanding of the enormous pressure Innsworth found itself under with TELIC and HERRICK to ascertain eligibility and process requests- and this for two fairly small operations with good records still in place to process them.

To open the floodgates of every single person who has served 15 years or more and the inevitable legal challenges that will come from Rankers denied the award previously, will place an incredible strain on a very small organisation and cause a huge bottleneck that could last for many many years while this is sorted out.

Its not getting ridicule except from people who seem peeved that they've not gotten it. Everywhere else seems to be a resounding 'meh' at worst, or 'oh thats nice'. Ultimately all medals have a start date criteria, someone will always dip in, and others will not get one - if you want one that badly then buy one, otherwise just accept that on this occasion you've been unlucky and move on - there are more important things in life to worry about.

[Onceapilot]

Ha! That is just so much sour grapes from you Jimlad. I doubt that you have anything directly to do with this subject but, your views here just regurgitate some of the same weak arguments used to delay other serious medal mistakes, such as the Bomber Command bar, ohh... too expensive...too difficult...it will take far too long, and seem to imply that the award is insignificant!:= Well, it cannot be insignificant because The Queen has seen fit to recognise long service with the award. However, I doubt that implications of the cut-off date were made known to her.:oh: So, here we are, an important correction of UK military award criteria tuned into a cake and arse party!:mad:

OAP

[MPN11]

I'll probably buy a replica one, to pass on to my son. He won't care about the award criteria, I'm sure.

[Onceapilot]

I'll probably buy a replica one, to pass on to my son. He won't care about the award criteria, I'm sure.
Yes, and you deserve it with 30 years service MPN!:ok: Or do we? The official criteria have been laid down to EXCLUDE those who retired before 2014 so, the award is invalid, even if you purchase it.:ouch: We have been given the finger by someone!

OAP

[Jimlad1]

I understand how there are some very good reasons why opening the doors to prior service would be extremely difficult to do, and that unfortunately whenever you set a date for a medal, some people will miss out. No one is ever completely happy when medal criteria are set, but its important to understand that it is not a conspiracy, or a desire to insult a group of veterans.

The only solution to this is to offer an NDM (which I sense there is zero support for among the military hierachy for many good reasons), which would be awarded on completion of basic training, so that then everyone has one. Otherwise people will constantly argue over the criteria and some will always fall short.

The route to buying one is open to all, and there is nothing to stop you doing that. I do feel that the petty bitterness, and desperate desire to be seen as a victim of exclusion by some here is sad to observe.

[Onceapilot]

On the contrary Jimlad, the pettiness is entirely within the mean spirited effective date criteria of this long service award. You seem unable to grasp the problem, that having finally decided to officially recognise long service in the Officer ranks, the imposition of an absurd "still in service" start date, with virtually no applicability to retired personnel, is a slap in the face for almost all those retired personnel. Few argue with the time served criteria, that is the basis of the long service. But, the effective prohibition of award to all who have retired but would otherwise qualify is mean and devisive. AFAIK, this is the only situation where being retired is effectively a limitation on the qualification for claiming a medal where one meets all other criteria.:=
I for one find your condescending tone and aloof attitude to this subject as sad to observe.

OAP

[Avtur]

I never agreed with or understood why Officers were not eligible for the LS & GC Medal, so am pleased to hear that they now are. After all, 15 years of service is 15 years of service irrespective of rank.

I am not pleased with the fact an arbitrary qualification date of 2014 has been set, and that years of loyalty will continue to go unrewarded for many, including my dear old Dad who gave 37 years of his life to Commissioned service. I would have liked to have seen him awarded the medal and Bar retrospectively. We always seem to do things half-assed.

[Jimlad1]

Some people see pettiness, I see realism. If we open qualifying up to anyone, we open the floodgates to hundreds of thousands of potential claimants, with an enormous amount of work required to identify their eligibility. We further face prospects of lawsuits from those who feel they are now entitled to one retrospectively, but didnt get one.

To award it retrospectively would be an incredibly difficult thing to do (and thats based on lots of discussions with those who have a very good understanding of what that would have entailed had that been done) and been a nightmare to administer.

Far easier to make it a simple cut off date, with enough notice that those still serving know whether to stay on or not (there was a roughly 18 month notice period I recall), than go down a complex road that would satisfy few, cost an inordinate amount and still lead to OUTRAGE stories in the Daily Mail when the overwhelmed medals office took years to process Uncle Ernies paperwork due to the weight of applications.

[Onceapilot]

Jimlad, you have said your (possibly the party line) piece and are not taking this subject forward.:zzz:
As this forum is unofficial and, you maintain a private identity (as I do), please stop trying to present the "official view".:= Thanks

OAP

[Onceapilot]

Avtur
Well said. AFAIK, that should be the medal with two bars!:ok:

OAP

[Jimlad1]

A good sign that you know an argument is being lost, is when the other side start shouting "SHUT UP I DONT WANT TO HEAR YOU".
OAP - I'm putting my views across, because I think the criteria is fair, the reasons for not backdating eminently sensible, and because I appreciate that its incredibly difficult to do back dated awards without overwhelming the system.

I'm sorry if you want me to stop posting now because my perspective of this doesnt align with your own, but thats the beauty of free speech - there are always two sides to every argument, and I will continue to make my views on this clear.

[Haraka]

I never could understand how, as a career officer, you could get a medal for merely undertaking that which you had promised to do. Crosses were different!

[Heathrow Harry]

Anything for other than gallantry is just cigarette card collecting TBH ................

[Red Line Entry]

Not true! At least cigarette card collecting exposed one to an element of danger!

[Wander00]

Haraka - is that not what politicians and civil servants do

[Haraka]

Haraka - is that not what politicians and civil servants do.

Indeed. But wasn't that what was supposed to make us different?

[1.3VStall]

I'm sorry if you want me to stop posting now because my perspective of this doesnt align with your own

Where did you get that from? you were merely requested to stop pushing the party line, but then again, perhaps you don't have an opinion of your own!

[Jimlad1]

No I am not pushing the party line. I am expressing my view, which I've reached after having done some research, talked to some experts and tried to understand the deeper issues behind why this isn't as clear cut as it seems. I have a firm opinion on this, it just happens to be different from other posters here.

I'm sorry if people can't accept that others here have views which they don't like, or which they think is spreading the party line, and that rather than engage with them, they demand they stop posting their views. I'm quite happy that my views are my own - if you'd rather we turned this into a thread where we all go 'isnt everything rubbish, how dare the RAF/MOD/HMG not do exactly as I want them to do' then thats fine, although I think it would be a fairly dull thread to read.

[NutLoose]

The issue is that the MOD is perenially stretched for cash, and the cost of minting I wonder how much they cost to mint, after all minting a 50p piece surely has to cost less than the value, same with a 10p coin, though admittedly there is the ribbon etc and the hanger, plus the actual metal content.


..

[theonewhoknows]

I was medically discharged from the RAF on 31 May 14, after 35 years and 10 days of service - due to an injury caused by my service! I've emailed Mr Fallon letting him know my thoughts, and asking him for his. I've not received a reply, but, then, he is a busy man.

[superplum]

I wonder how much they cost to mint, after all minting a 50P piece surely has to cost lest than the value, same with a 10P coin, though admittedly there is the ribbon etc and the hanger, plus the actual metal content.
You haven't included the personalised engraving!

[superplum]

I was medically discharged from the RAF on 31 May 14, after 35 years and 10 days of service - due to an injury caused by my service! I've emailed Mr Fallon letting him know my thoughts, and asking him for his. I've not received a reply, but, then, he is a busy man.
Does boy's service count (?), you appear to hae joined at age 13!

:confused:

[Mahogany_Bomber]

As has already been mentioned, the chosen date is that of the Written Statement to Parliament. For those who disagree with the date chosen but agree with the concept, what would you deem a more appropriate start point?


MB

[MPN11]

Indeed, M_B ... any other date would be totally arbitrary, despite my preference for the start date being the day I joined!

[Dougie M]

MB
As a start point of regular volunteer service, I suggest that the qualifying date should coincide with the end of conscription in the U.K. - 31st Dec 1960. The last National Serviceman left the services in May 1963.

[NutLoose]

You haven't included the personalised engraving! Never thought of that, I wonder will that include the rank at the cut off date for those that qualified on that date, their current rank if still serving, rank on leaving if they have left, or simply be bereft of any markings as some other medals are..

[theonewhoknows]

Your're a genius Sugarplum

[Heathrow Harry]

Nut

it will have all of those dates and will be approx. 10 cms across....................

[ian16th]

Nutty
Never thought of that, I wonder will that include the rank at the cut off date for those that qualified on that date, their current rank if still serving, rank on leaving if they have left, or simply be bereft of any markings as some other medals are.. If we are staying with officers, they should be able to handle that, as the only change that I know of in the commissioned rank is the cessation of MoRAF.

With the 50 year delay in the awarding of the GSM for Cyprus 1963-64, and the cut off date of less than a week before the demise of technical ranks such as Cpl/Tech and Senior/Tech has proved too difficult for Innsworth to handle correctly.

[Tankertrashnav]

Never thought of that, I wonder will that include the rank at the cut off date for those that qualified on that date, their current rank if still serving, rank on leaving if they have left, or simply be bereft of any markings as some other medals are..

Taking the last point first, issuing a long service medal unnamed would be a departure from established practice. Long service medals date back to the reign of William IV, and have also been issued named to the recipient. In general terms, long service medals are always named, as well as campaign medals (with a few exceptions, notably those awarded for service in WW2). Coronation and Jubilee Medals are always issued unnamed, with the exception of the 1953 Coronation Medals awarded to members of the successful Everest expedition that year. Other than the Victoria Cross, officers gallantry awards were not named, whereas those issued to other ranks always were. Now that crosses are awarded to all ranks I assume that they are still unnamed, although I am not certain on that point. This all refers to British medals, recipients of UN and NATO medals, etc, will already know that these are not named, as is common with most foreign awards.

Taking Ian's point, medals should show the rank of the recipient at the time of qualification for the award. Innsworth's inability to recognise ranks which were existence at the time he was serving in Cyprus is an error, plain and simple.

One correction, as has already been pointed out, the naming is not "engraved" but impressed, using a machine with a collar which fits around the medal.

[NutLoose]

There is a chap on flypast thinking of getting a ww2 DFC engraved, I always thought that would detract from its value, I think he is now looking at framing.

[MPN11]

NutLoose ... my framed faux LSGC & Bar will, I'm sure, be treasured by my son, with or without engraved lettering. He will probably be more interested in the 6-figure legacy, though!

[Onceapilot]

MB
The eligibility start date is the whole point of contention. I do not see the selection of a date that satisfies a generous spirit towards the award, covering as many as possible rather than the mean spirited few as possible - as has been imposed, to be a difficult task for a suitable study. In fact, I am sure this work will have already been done before the ridiculous penny-pinching cut-off was made!:oh: My own opinion is that the start date should go back as far as possible, within the scope of the other criteria for the award and, without conflicting with other awards or protocols.

OAP

[Melchett01]

NutLoose ... my framed faux LSGC & Bar will, I'm sure, be treasured by my son, with or without engraved lettering. He will probably be more interested in the 6-figure legacy, though!

MPN11 - That depends where the decimal point sits ;-)

[Foxtrot-Yankee]

I'd be more than happy for everyone to get a LSGC medal if I can return to my final salary pension, because why is my service deemed less valuable than those who served before me based on an arbitrary date?

The reality is that regardless of feelings of right or wrong, we do not live in a world of endless means. Although I would love to still be on a final salary pension, it is simply unaffordable now with all you retired folk living to 130.

It would be nice to award the medal to everyone but there is no gain to defence in doing so and therefore is an unnecessary expense. Life isn't always fair.

[ian16th]

I'd be more than happy for everyone to get a LSGC medal if I can return to my final salary pension, because why is my service deemed less valuable than those who served before me based on an arbitrary date?

My service was deemed less valuable that those that served after me.

If you served in the ranks before 1975, you had to do 22 years to get any pension.

My almost 13 years got me a big fat Zero. Those were the rules of the day.

It encourages one to work harder in civvy St.

[Onceapilot]

FY
This LS award is not a substitute for pay or pension.:rolleyes: You say yourself "it would be nice to award the medal to everyone", I presume you mean the "everyone" who does the LS time criteria in the services? Expense, we are just talking qualifying for those retired here, I proposed earlier that retired personel could qualify but be left to purchase the medal, if cost is an insurmountable problem for HMG.;)

OAP

[superplum]

FY
This LS award is not a substitute for pay or pension.:rolleyes: You say yourself "it would be nice to award the medal to everyone", I presume you mean the "everyone" who does the LS time criteria in the services? Expense, we are just talking qualifying for those retired here, I proposed earlier that retired personel could qualify but be left to purchase the medal, if cost is an insurmountable problem for HMG.;)

OAP
Let's not forget that it's not just "time-served", the conduct ratings throughout the time are of equal, if not more, importance. I know, I had to argue for mine after a Stn Cdr at a new posting considered his rules were more important than the written criteria. I did win but that cost me 18 months which I never got back!

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Back in 1980 when I qualified for the LS & GCM I was awarded a £5 bounty. Is this still being paid out?


Aaron.

[Onceapilot]

Cheers superplum.
I apologise if I was taking the good conduct bit as read.:) Thinking about the status of the commisioned / non-commisioned awards, I guess the LS&GC award was available if claimed after retirement due to admin error? Has that avenue now been closed? Also, as far as equality goes, there is an ongoing situation now, where officers who would have recieved an award if there was parity at the time, are now barred from retrospectively recieving the award. Stupid:rolleyes:

OAP

[Banana Boy]

It would seem that none of us dispute that the requisite time in uniform deserves the medal. The main argument seems to be the cost to finance the medal for all qualifying cases if there were not an arbitrary cut-off date. So, how about anybody who has qualified, regardless of dates, can have and wear the medal. Serving personnel should get the medal free, all others can order and pay for it.

BB

[NutLoose]

Back in 1980 when I qualified for the LS & GCM I was awarded a £5 bounty. Is this still being paid out?


Aaron.

I seriously doubt the budget would stretch to this these days

http://www.clickndial.co.uk/images/BOUNTY%20blue.jpg?osCsid=711rn85fbm345v137eaqag49v5

[Avtur]

As a matter of interest, how long is one's service record kept after leaving the Service? Any claim would require length of service and conduct to be confirmed.

[Banana Boy]

....my bet is that everyone's service record is kept long enough to see who qualified!

BB

[Innominate]

Service records for those who left before 1920 have been transferred to the National Archives, and MOD has been in discussion with the National Archives about the transfer of service records for those who served after 1920 - particularly those who served during the Second World War.

I would expect MOD to retain service records for as long as they might reasonably need access (perhaps for 80 years from the date of enlistment) and then transfer the records to TNA.

[theonewhoknows]

If you really care about this, then do something about it.

[mmitch]

Latest awards list.
RAF - Operational Honours - October 2016Operational Honours - October 2016 (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/OperationalHonoursOctober2016.cfm)
mitch.

[Dougie M]

I was always told "The three most useless things in your Flying Career are:
The runway behind you,
The height above you and
An AOC's Commendation"

[ian16th]

Latest awards list.
RAF - Operational Honours - October 2016Operational Honours - October 2016 (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/OperationalHonoursOctober2016.cfm)

Anyone have the full story behind the 2 AFC's?

[Onceapilot]

TOWK
Yes, anyone who is keen to see the LS Medal made official for retired Officers should write to the Defence Sec or, PM etc!:ok: Cheers

OAP

[Ken Scott]

Absolutely, it's not like the PM has anything better to do right now than to deal with a bunch of ROs with a sense of entitlement........!

[wanderingmedic]

Just got my South Atlantic medal only took 34 years. Qualifying time has moved to end of October 1982.

[Haraka]

I have to laugh.
Any stories from anybody as to how their medals ( e.g.G.S.M.) were actually presented? :)

[Dougie M]

The former transport base in Wiltshire was pretty good in presenting gongs for confrontations and colonial punch ups the Station supported. The First in Last out action was normally in a Tac C130. Other than that GSMs, their bars, NATO medals and Her Maj's jubilees were normally signed for in the Adj's office.

[MPN11]

I got a letter with a personalised subscript from ACAS for my efforts in GW1 :)

[Onceapilot]

Absolutely, it's not like the PM has anything better to do right now than to deal with a bunch of ROs with a sense of entitlement........!
Ken, is that more of your "devils advocacy" or, don't you realise that Ministers have their paperwork staffed and prioritised as they see fit?:rolleyes:
BTW, you wont have to claim one, even if you do qualify, and you can write in to point out how you don't think retired Officers with long service should be getting a medal, if that is your view? :hmm:

OAP

[huge72]

I received the bar to my LS & GC through the post to my home address along with a letter thanking me for my loyal service as if I had retired. At the time I was serving as an Ops Officer in the Big Tent in Oman having been Commissioned as a Warrant Officer in 2002. Right Hand Left Hand

[Slow Biker]

Contrasting presentations. 1968, sitting in a St Athan classroom on my fitters course, the door opens and the FS chucks a package to me - my GSM Malay Peninsular. Many years later I received a fulsome apology from AVM Squire on the late presentation of a bar to my LSGC and my 'Warrant'.

[Nugget90]

Onceapilot suggested in post 199 that anyone keen to see the LS Medal made official for retired officers should write to the Defence Secretary, etc.

Well, I did just that in June 2015, addressing my three letters to the Minister for Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans, the Minister of State for the Armed Forces, and the Secretary of State for Defence. The texts were essentially similar, but an example (to my local MP) included:

As a courtesy, I should like you to know that I have written to the Rt Hon Michael Fallon MP, Secretary of State for Defence, on my understanding that the new Long Service Medal he announced on the 26th of March 2015 may not be awarded retrospectively to those who have served a minimum of 15 years in the Armed Forces of the United Kingdom.

Writing this letter is not about qualifying for another medal, but for deserving just one medal from a Nation that I hope is grateful for the long service in the Armed Forces that many of us have delivered in former years. My letter to the Secretary of State is an attempt to suggest how it might profit the Government to look with sympathy upon addressing what could otherwise become a potentially anomalous situation.

I do hope that you will do whatever you can to support my plea that those of us who served our Monarch in earlier years may at last obtain recognition of that service, even though administering that award may be spread over several months in order to reduce the impact on what I acknowledge are extremely tight budgets."

All three letters were then forwarded to the Minister of State for Defence, the Rt Hon Earl Howe PC, who sent a reply in which he explained that the LSM was intended to be a medal for the modern era, "which reflects the commitment we expect from the Armed Forces today. There are no plans to make it a retrospective award."

I replied with a statement rather than a further question, acknowledging that, "The UK Government was to be applauded for addressing the anomalous situation that has existed hitherto in which Armed Forces personnel of all ranks who have served qualifying periods in the Volunteer Reserves, Cadet Forces, Royal Observer Corps and other part-time units have been able to claim long service medals whereas within the Regular Army, Navy and Air Force such recognition has been denied to those who have held the Queen's Commission without prior service in a non-commissioned capacity. The new LSM will be a visible and tangible indication of the Government's regard for the professionalism, courage and contribution over extended periods by those who serve and have served in the Regular Armed Forces, and as such will be highly regarded.

To this end, it cannot be right that contributions made by former commissioned officers who have provided long service in the Regular Armed Forces during Her Majesty's reign could be held as less deserving of merit and recognition than those who today have served for 15 and more years. If retrospective application of the new LSM is not prescribed, comparisons such as this will be made, and many who have served faithfully for long periods in earlier years will feel that their service counted for little and, despite the rhetoric, is not in fact highly regarded. With the greatest respect, I would be most grateful if you were to convey these sentiments to the officials who are currently working on the criteria for the award."

The reason why I put pen to paper on this issue is that I would cherish medallic recognition for having served for more than 15 years as a Regular Service officer throughout the 1960s and 70s (20 years actually), and retired without a medal. Why does it matter to me? At one level, because I was proud to serve in the Royal Air Force and would like to be able to display that pride at events such as the annual Remembrance Service. At another level, because at this Service, in a packed congregation in my local church, there are maybe only two or three persons wearing medals: two of us wearing those earned by our fathers in the two World Wars, and one a GSM he earned in Cyprus. I fear that unless more medals can be seen, our new generations will increasingly lose touch with the symbolism that serves to bring home the service and commitment of the Armed Forces whose physical presence is increasingly less evident amongst rural populations: "Lest we forget".

Many of those of you who have read thus far may already have earned a medal, possibly the Queen's Gold and/or Diamond Jubilee medals (which inter alia required at least 5 years' service), so might not have the same perspective on this matter as those of us who have none. I was serving during the Queen's Silver Jubilee and, like many around me, was pleased to learn that a medal was to be struck, to be awarded to the Armed Forces, but hugely disappointed when it became apparent that this was limited to only a very small minority.

I think that as the months pass, there could be more than a few voices (hopefully some VSOs) asking the Government to think again about retrospective granting of the LSM to retired Regular Service officers - maybe only to those who qualify and wish to receive it (for quite possibly many won't be interested). Now in my mid 70s, I would like to think that one day, the LSM/LS&GCM will be awarded to all regular Service officers who satisfy amended qualification criteria.

This Poppy Day I will be at Waterloo Station collecting for the RBL, and wearing - with pride - my late father's impressive collection of WWII medals.

[Onceapilot]

It would seem that none of us dispute that the requisite time in uniform deserves the medal. The main argument seems to be the cost to finance the medal for all qualifying cases if there were not an arbitrary cut-off date. So, how about anybody who has qualified, regardless of dates, can have and wear the medal. Serving personnel should get the medal free, all others can order and pay for it.

BB BB, I don't understand some of the sour grapes though that has been posted on the subject of medals? There are certainly different points of view but, I feel that the real issues are that, medals are issued appropriately and as fairly as can be done.:) I do not have any truck with arguments that, cost or difficulty should limit simple awards where merit has been recognised. However, if the official choice was presented of being recognised but having to pay for the actual medal, I would go for that, rather than see thousands of Veterans not get that recognition of Service AT ALL! :mad:
Cheers

OAP

[Onceapilot]

Nugget90
Yes, a very good move by you, IMO.:D
The response that implies the medal is "for today" is fatuous. A Long Service medal by definition reflects past Service!:mad: What a load of bolleaux from them!

OAP

[MPN11]

Well done, Nugget90. I suspect that nothing will come from your efforts - but thanks for trying :ok:

[Tankertrashnav]

"which reflects the commitment we expect from the Armed Forces today ..."

What a pathetic response! Do we assume then that in the past the same level of commitment was not required? I repeat, I wont be getting one in any event, as I only did 12 years, but I see no reason why longer serving fellow officers from earlier years shouldn't get one.

[Jimlad1]

The way letters sent to Ministers work, they are looked at by the Ministers office, the part of the department that deals with the issue is asked to produce a reply, and its then approved and sent by the Ministers office.

Sending 3 letters doesnt mean 3 responses, it just means that one desk officer will get stiffed 3 times. Writing to a Minister doesnt do very much beyond ensuring you get a formal letter back, written by a usually highly overworked officer or civil servant rather than by the Minister in question.

[MPN11]

I might try dropping a line to my MP, the former Lord Chancehellor. Now he's on the Back Benches, he might have some time on his hands. And at least he known me personally.

[Union Jack]

And at least he known me personally. - MPN11

:ooh::eek:

Jack

[MPN11]

Apologies for the typo ... "knows me". I was very active in local politics before I emigrated, which was a week or so after we put the Gove in Government ;)

I hope that clarifies matters?

[sycamore]

MPN,`Lord Chancehellor`....? too much `pop` perhaps?

[Rosevidney1]

Down with the demon drink, say I :confused:

[Banana Boy]

Dear Nugget 90,

Well written. I hope that someone takes up the cause and that you do get your medal. You deserve it just as much as anyone.

BB

[Onceapilot]

MPN11
Yes, do write. Sometimes, I suspect, just getting the ear of the right, or enough, people can tip the balance. Beyond that, I think the case for backdating the award on merit is sound! :D Cheers

OAP

[teeteringhead]

Any stories from anybody as to how their medals ( e.g.G.S.M.) were actually presented?

Try this one:

got my first - GSM with NI clasp - in the bow wave of medals when it was first announced - 1972 maybe, but qualification backdated to 1969. I was actually at Aldergrove when they arrived; specifically in the gents behind the Det buildings. Enter my Flt Cdr (aka wyvern) who stands in adjacent facility.

Flt Cdr: Hey Teeters - I've got a f***in' medal for you.
Fg Off Teeters: Thanks Boss
Flt Cdr: And here it is!

Produces white cardboard medal box from his pocket and hands it over. Fortunately no handshake ensued as other hand was busy ................:O

[MPN11]

having read some of the 'prenentation' tales, there's no doubt about it. Unless it's a really good one, it comes in the post/SHQ/Gents. No wonder we lag behind the Americans in festooning ourselves with ribbons/medals/badges/patches ... we don't have enough time to award all that stuff.

I recall getting off an aircraft at Washington Dulles with a bunch of Annapolis Cadets ... they already had 3 ribbons.

But ... I digress :(

[ian16th]

I recall getting off an aircraft at Washington Dulles with a bunch of Annapolis Cadets ... they already had 3 ribbons.

But nobody does modesty like us Brits!

[Onceapilot]

It is strange, but I had to sign, in SHQ or the admin office, for most of mine.:hmm:

OAP

[NutLoose]

Try this one:

got my first - GSM with NI clasp - in the bow wave of medals when it was first announced - 1972 maybe, but qualification backdated to 1969. I was actually at Aldergrove when they arrived; specifically in the gents behind the Det buildings. Enter my Flt Cdr (aka wyvern) who stands in adjacent facility.

Flt Cdr: Hey Teeters - I've got a f***in' medal for you.
Fg Off Teeters: Thanks Boss
Flt Cdr: And here it is!

Produces white cardboard medal box from his pocket and hands it over. Fortunately no handshake ensued as other hand was busy ................

I didn't even get that, our SAC admin clerk handed it to me while passing in the corridor when he was bringing the mail down to the crew room. Little white box again with a little envelope in it.

Let's face it, every man and his dog had one at Odious and if they had any formal presentation it would have been a full time job for someone. The bugger was when I left to RAFG where medals were rare, all that meant was GSM stood for Give Some Marching as it guaranteed a place on any Sqn parade :(

..

[Haraka]

Yup!, taken out of a drawer by an admin clerk at Aldergove and pushed over the desk seven months into a four month roulement.
But ( most of us) weren't there for the medals......

[BEagle]

After GW1, our Saudi and Kuwaiti medals arrived in the crewroom, along with a mean little note from Binnsworth accompanying each stating "Here is your medal - you are not allowed to wear it!" :mad:

Although at the VC10 end-of-an-era thrash, I noticed that a few people had ignored the instruction...:ok:

[Jumping_Jack]

My Air Ops Iraq was scraped, covered in fluff and dust, from behind a cabinet by the SWO using his pace stick. It had fallen there some weeks before and he had just found it.....:sad:

[Jumping_Jack]

Duke of Edinburgh receives Long Service and Good Conduct Medal.....:}

[Onceapilot]

For those interested, I received a reply to my letter to Sir Michael Fallon asking for backdating of the LSGC for Officers. The reply blames Sir John Holmes for recommending, to the Cabinet Office, that the "the changes to the LSGC medal should not be made retrospectively".:* Pretty much a stitch-up job then! Having decided that the situation was actually unsatisfactory, they went for a minimum cost option, that doesn't actually repair the damage!:mad: Despite the minimum effect of my letter, I would encourage anyone with a similar opinion about the desultory introduction of this medal to write to Sir Michael and express your opinion, for it is only weight of opinion that might change this unbalanced situation.:ok:

OAP

[theonewhoknows]

I've had the same response, along with a number of platitudes about how our service is still valued.

The MOD's response states that the date was not the MOD's decision, but goes on to say that 'Both the Honours and Decorations Committee and the Service Chiefs of Staff agreed that only officers.....'.

'The decision not to apply retrospection in this case and to amend the eligibility criteria was taken by Sir John Holmes and the Committee on the Grants of Honours, Decorations and Medals (HD Committee), following the conclusion of his independent review on Military Medals, and not the MOD. Ministers have agreed that the eligibility requirements for the LS&GC medal which is currently awarded only to other ranks and not to officers should be harmonised. The date of 29 July 2014 was selected to coincide with a Written Ministerial Statement laid in the House of Lords announcing the end of Sir John Holmes review. Both the Honours and Decorations Committee and the Service Chiefs of Staff agreed that only officers in service on that date should be considered eligible for the award.'

The MOD's response contradicts itself! I intend to take it further, I'm just considering the best way. I have got plenty of medals - it's the principle. I suspect it will be a waste of time.

[Onceapilot]

Well done TOWK. You are damn right that it is the principle! Having agreed that the previous position on this medal was prejudiced against Officers, they go and increase the prejudice by only recognising the service of those still serving after the date of the announcment. An utter utter shambles!:mad:

OAP

[brakedwell]

GSM's - Can't remember. QCVSIA - Flt Cdr told me as "By the way" after thought.

[Pontius Navigator]

My first "by the way" was at school "you've don't quite well at Maths" that was in the old GCE Pass/Fail days "you got 98% in one 97% in the other"

Or at Nav School, "Do you mind if we knock a couple of marks off so Sgt C, who is going for a commission . . ."

Or "I see you got a Good Show in the Command FS magazine" First I had heard of it. It now has pride of place in the smallest room downstairs.

But I did have very nice letters from two 3*

[Old-Duffer]

Guards officer referring to colleague: 'he won a tolerably good VC'

[teeteringhead]

QCVSIA - Flt Cdr told me as "By the way" after thought. A bit like hearing about my MiD at the end of a bollocking!

Hat on no coffee in Wg Cdrs's office - I'd been LHS (non-handling, non-captain, non-interested) on a night underslung load trip with a new-ish pilot.

He'd not made the hook safe after takeoff, and managed to transmit his downwind call on the release button - so no-one heard the epic R/T call: "C/s downwind ..... oh sh!t....." (well he was Irish.....)

Wg Cdr goes on and on:

"OK Teeters, I know you weren't captain or an instructor on this trip, but you are a more experienced pilot, training captain etc etc etc and you should have been monitoring his checks etc etc etc.........

....... and another thing: you've been Mentioned in Despatches!" :ok:

[Dan Gerous]

Listening to the radio today, there was an item about bringing in a law in the UK about stolen valour, and wearing medals you didn't earn. The two round ones I've got have my name and rank etc on the outer rim, and you can always check a potential mittys claims by looking for that. Do the crosses and star medals issued for gallantry have the recipients name stamped on them as well?

[Tankertrashnav]

They certainly never used to, but the OR equivalent oval medals always were. Thus AFC/DFC were unnamed - AFM/DFM were named (Same for RN/Army awards)

I haven't actually seen a DSC/MC/DFC since they started being awarded to all ranks sometime in the 1990s, but no doubt somebody will be able to say if they are now named - there are plenty floating round Odiham to check, for example!

Having said that, renamed medals are the curse of the medal collecting world and any self respecting ( ! ) Walt can easily get hold of very convincing copies and have them named up in the correct style - certainly good enough to fool the casual observer.

[Tankertrashnav]

Just been following a Facebook thread about the proposed new law mentioned by Dan Gerous. A lot of predictable "lock em up and throw away the key rubbish" but if the law does come in I sincerely hope they don't start jailing these pathetic individuals - the prisons are overflowing as it is. Fifty hours community service cleaning up all the war memorials in the area might be an appropriate sentence.

[Wander00]

TTN - agree, but IMHO 100 hours

[MPN11]

TTN - agree, but IMHO 100 hours
Well, there are a lot of Memorials that need TLC