Pilot Activated Lighting - Alternate Requirements Lunacy

[mikewil]

With the recent events in Adelaide and SA, I have thought about the requirement that when planning for alternates due to pilot activated lighting the alternate need not have standby power.

It seems almost as if it is a leap of faith that if the lighting is unserviceable at one aerodrome, that it will work at your alternate which in many case will be under 50 miles away.

You don't even need to consider a massive state wide outage, as many rural townships and aerodromes along a highway will be fed by the same distribution line. As long as that distribution line is cut, you could have an outage effecting aerodromes for over 100 miles.

Is it wise to plan for an alternate without standby power despite the law not requiring it?

[Capt Fathom]

You can't plan for every contingency. Why not carry an Alternate for your Alternate. Just in case!

[AerocatS2A]

Well, you're the PiC, that's a decision for you to make.

I'd be looking at the situation as a whole. Take a look at Adelaide last week, it's not like you would have arrived at an aerodrome on a lovely night only to find the lights not working and the lights not working at every other aerodrome in the state unless it had standby power. The weather was awful and the BOM had severe weather warnings out for large areas of the state. An alternate with standby power might be a good thing in that case,

[Keg]

One of the things impressed upon me long ago was that it's not enough to be legal. You need to be legal AND safe. That concept should underpin your selection of destinations d alternate airfields. If I thought I was a decent chance of needing to use my alternate field I'd want to make sure it had standby power. If I was holding an alternate but pretty confident of getting in at destination then I may be prepared to select an alternate that was closer and did not have standby power.

[NZScion]

Surprising what you Aussies get away with. In NZ standby power is required for the navaids, and for night operations aerodrome lighting, at the alternate...

[mostlytossas]

While not trying to dismiss the risk,very few light aircaft are ever out in such severe weather that would black out entire areas like we saw in SA. Larger aircraft usually have alternates far away through necessity such as runway suitability etc. These larger airports almost always have back up power, plus as a last resort have persons on the ground capable of laying out flares.

[mikewil]

While not trying to dismiss the risk,very few light aircaft are ever out in such severe weather that would black out entire areas like we saw in SA.

This is true, however it doesn't take severe weather across an entire state to cripple large parts of the electricity grid.

In any case, towns dotted along a highway can all be fed by a single distribution line, so if the line goes down it may black out many towns and airfields (and alternates) all feeding off the single line.

[mostlytossas]

Have never seen really large areas out before unless weather related but even then there are things you can do. Back in the 80s I was out in a C172 one night having departed Cootamundra. Around Temora I noticed the aircraft electrics fluctuating and the cabin light getting dim. Checking the circuit breakers no fault was found or any warning light. Called FS while I still had a radio working to tell them the problem and was returning to Coota as I hoped the lights were still on. PAL in those days timed for 1hr.
Got back ok lights still on. After taxying in was met by a police patrol who had been asked to attend by FS who would have turned on lights manually if required. Apparently country cops are called on to help out at times and have access to and instructions as to how to turn runway lights on. Moral of the story call out for help early. The system does work in an emergency. Problem turned out to be a faulty alternator that was charging just enough to keep the warning light off but not enough for everything else.They could also if required organise flares through the SES no doubt or line the strip with car lights if all else failed for a total power fail,so not all is lost.

[AerocatS2A]

This is true, however it doesn't take severe weather across an entire state to cripple large parts of the electricity grid.

In any case, towns dotted along a highway can all be fed by a single distribution line, so if the line goes down it may black out many towns and airfields (and alternates) all feeding off the single line.
Theoretically possible but have you ever heard of this actually happening and causing a problem for an aircraft? You must do what you are comfortable with, but I wouldn't get hung up on every conceivable possibility. You can always get the cops out with a couple of cars' headlights if the worst should happen.

[mostlytossas]

Surprising what you Aussies get away with. In NZ standby power is required for the navaids, and for night operations aerodrome lighting, at the alternate...

What you got electricity over there?
Here is me thinking you just put a bit of whale oil on a few sheep and set fire to them!

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Are there that many strips out there that even have Standby Power?

[mostlytossas]

Heaps. ERSA lists which ones have and they are usually scattered around within an hour or so flight time of your average light aircraft. EG in SA outside of the Adelaide area a quick look shows Whyalla,Pt Lincoln, Mount Gambier,Ceduna plus Mildura,Broken Hill just across the border all have standby power. Some are permanently lit at night while others are not.

[Falling Leaf]

What you got electricity over there?
Here is me thinking you just put a bit of whale oil on a few sheep and set fire to them!

You know tossa that would be quite funny, but NZ ****s all over this stupid country when it comes to their Regulator and the ATC system.

Example, AirNZ wanted to fly ATR's into Paraparaumu, a small GA airfield north of WGTN. Low capacity RPT. Well CAA would not let them until Air Services manned the control tower.

Come to this side of the Tasman...antiquated regulations that defy improvement, high capacity RPT going into CTAF's and landing on 30m wide runways, millions spent on radar systems that don't quite allow for CTA into Hobart and Launy, Class D aerodromes where they see you on radar and ping you if you get a mile off course, but are 'unable to provide separation'...

Yeah, those kiwis have done pretty well with their whale oil.

[mostlytossas]

Hey F/Leaf you have no argument with me about how useless CASA is, and I know the NZ regulator is far more switched on to the aviation industry that it serves, but, are you saying there should be a Tower at every airport that RPT operates into?
Because if you did that here with the user pays that we are stuck with you would put the price of air travel even higher at regional airports and make many uneconomical to operate to and cause the flow on effects of less activity hence less pilots and crew.

[Falling Leaf]

Hi MT. Yes I have heard that argument many times before, and I always wonder, how much do these controllers get paid...2M a year!

I just can't see that it would be that much more expensive, considering the legions of security people and ground handling, fire etc that can also be in attendance. Would be interesting to see a study but it wouldn't surprise me if it was something like an extra dollar a ticket.

[mostlytossas]

FL, Have you any idea of the costs to run a Tower? I remember in the mid 80s the powers that be decided to put in a tower at Wagga. They justified this empire building exercise on inflated aircraft movements. I was flying out of there at that time and seem to recall something like 30,000+ movements a year. All the locals based on the field knew this was a crock of proverbial but it went ahead anyway. Lasted only a few short years before it got shut down. Not enough movements to justify the expense.
You seem to reckon it should be based on aircraft size. Imagine that? Port Augusta has probably about 4 Focker 50 movements a week? Lets put in a tower. Same for Prominent Hill,Moomba, Olympic Dam (even though hardly any other traffic goes to those airports). Whyalla and Port Lincoln have 2 or 3 Dash movements most days. They will need towers. I havent even started to count the larger states. You must work for an airline. Problem is pilots like you dont pay for anything.Your company does and passes it on to the user. ie passengers,small aviation business owners and private pilots.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Whyalla,Pt Lincoln, Mount Gambier,Ceduna plus Mildura,Broken Hill

Just about all had a Government presence once, ie a Flight Service Unit. Guess the councils were lucky to inherit that infrastructure.

[mostlytossas]

Yes I remember those days well. FS units were handy and helpful to have at times but existed in the day when the taxpayer funded it all. Including free ERSA, AIPs, charts,etc. Then along came user pays. I have to say if I was given the choice between keeping FS units and funding them by the user or letting them go I would opt for the latter. Not worth the cost to me,plus technology has replaced their duties pretty well.