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View Full Version : Sic "Is it Becoz I is ............"?


alwayzinit
1st Oct 2016, 10:52
"West African soldier sues MoD over severe cold during military exercise"

So by our brave boy's logic those of us from the cooler climes should be excused duty where it's hot?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/01/west-african-soldier-sues-mod-over-severe-cold-during-military-e/

fujii
1st Oct 2016, 11:16
Climes, not climbs.

Cazalet33
1st Oct 2016, 15:33
According to the MoD (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/armed-forces-compensation/armed-forces-compensation-what-you-need-to-know):

You can claim for any injury or illness which has been sustained as a result of service. Claims can range from relatively minor fractures to amputations and other more serious conditions, including mental disorders. You can submit a claim for any injury or illness which occurs while you are participating in a service related activity. This includes Adventurous Training (AT), physical exercise and organised sport, for example inter-service athletics.

Is there a reason why this guy should not be allowed to claim?

Is it coz he is black that his claim gets into the headlines? If he'd been a white boy from kinEssex, would this thread have been started?

Fareastdriver
1st Oct 2016, 15:50
"White boy from kinEssex soldier sues MoD over severe cold during military exercise"

Yes, it would.

Tankertrashnav
1st Oct 2016, 17:01
There was a bloke on our nav course who was airsick on virtually every flight. This in a Varsity trundling around straight and level. He obviously missed a trick by not suing the MOD for the discomfort he felt!

Seriously though - what the heck is the country coming to when a squaddy can sue the army because he got a cold :ugh: I think this is the sort of thing our new common sense, no-nonsense PM could have a look at and stamp out.

G-CPTN
1st Oct 2016, 17:19
I don't think he caught a cold - he was just cold.

VP959
1st Oct 2016, 17:20
The "claim culture" thing with the services started a long time ago. Like many, I suffered from long-term back problems as a consequence of a lot of hours in the back of Seakings, and, IIRC, there was talk of some putting together a claim for injury compensation back in the 1980's. To some extent I can understand it, as there was a pretty violent vertical acceleration in the transition at times, enough to make your eyeballs unable to stay focussed (someone once told me it was a resonance problem, not sure how true that it). I was fortunate, in that despite spending a couple of thousand hours in the back my back problems went away when I shifted to working in other types. I did know one former Observer whose back injury was so severe as to get him pensioned off, though, and everyone I knew who flew in the back of the things at that time seemed to have back problems.

This chaps claim seems to be based on the supposition that, being of West African origin makes him physiologically more susceptible to cold weather. I've no idea whether that is a valid claim or not. My guess would be that wherever we come from we can all acclimatise to a wide range of climates. If there is some sort of genetic predisposition to cold weather injury, then perhaps someone should have highlighted that as a risk that he would have to accept when he signed up. It's a bit like a situation I found myself in, years ago, when, as a civvy, I did an attachment to a front line unit, and signed to agree to be under military regs for the duration. On day two of interrogation, during the aircrew escape and evasion course (having been caught, stripped naked and held in a cell, doused with cold water, kept awake with loud music, made to stand on my toes, leaning against the wall with my fingers, etc, etc) I "lost it" and yelled that I wanted out. I was shown the bit of paper I'd signed and told in no uncertain terms that the Commandos that had captured me could do what they wanted, and I no longer had any rights......................

meadowrun
1st Oct 2016, 17:25
They will have to be very careful where they deploy him and pull him out when winter arrives. Heaven forbid he gets a touch of frostbite.


There is a new book out on the SAS. Mentions how they thought nothing of setting out over the desert with minimal water and open Jeeps in 145F temps.

ORAC
1st Oct 2016, 18:02
Well there was the trainee RAF Regiment officer who lost his toes because the cold in a trench during training. Given his choice of another trade he chose pilot - and went on, IIRC, to be a very successful Jaguar pilot.

After a bit of a search - http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/565138-pilots-4.html#post9060394

VP959
1st Oct 2016, 18:33
I was racially abused; it's only recently that I could talk about it; an Englishman shouted "Bend over and let's see that great hairy Scotch arse!"
I sometimes quietly sob.


In my case it was sexual harassment..................

The moment I "lost it" was when I was lined up (naked) with the other course members who'd been captured, and in walked a WRAC officer, peaked cap pulled down over eyes, RMP-style, carrying a swagger stick. She walked along the line, poking each of us in the privates with the stick, making disparaging remarks. When she got to me, and remarked "call yourself a man with a pathetic excuse for a dick like that?" was the time that I decided enough was enough.

I swear the two guys that frog-marched me back to detention were grinning their arses off all the way. Bastards.....................

Blues&twos
1st Oct 2016, 18:54
Naked and cold? She wouldn't have been able to find mine, let alone poke it with a stick.

Respect, dude!

G-CPTN
2nd Oct 2016, 13:53
I was lined up (naked) with the other course members who'd been captured, and in walked a WRAC officer, peaked cap pulled down over eyes, RMP-style, carrying a swagger stick. She walked along the line, poking each of us in the privates with the stick, making disparaging remarks. When she got to me, and remarked "call yourself a man with a pathetic excuse for a dick like that?"
I wonder what the implications would have been if the genders were reversed.

Pontius Navigator
2nd Oct 2016, 14:01
VP959, I have a pension. I had a regular back issue that occurred even after role changes and these were regularly recorded on my notes. Come retirement those notes were the key to a pension. The pain has been contained for a few years but I am now unable to sit up from prone in bed and need to struggle out of bed.

Pontius Navigator
2nd Oct 2016, 14:02
I wonder what the implications would have been if the genders were reversed.
You mean with regard the swagger stick?

VP959
2nd Oct 2016, 15:49
VP959, I have a pension. I had a regular back issue that occurred even after role changes and these were regularly recorded on my notes. Come retirement those notes were the key to a pension. The pain has been contained for a few years but I am now unable to sit up from prone in bed and need to struggle out of bed.
I was fortunate, in that I switched to mainly fixed wing flying duties and after a year or so the back problems more or less sorted themselves out. I've been told I have three compressed discs in my lower back, and that in all probability they were damaged back in the early 80's when I was suffering near-continual back pain from a period of intensive flying in the back of Seakings (something like 1600 hours in a year and half, IIRC - it was a rare month when I didn't clock up 100 hours).

I'm certain that the back would have degraded further if I'd carried on that work, and, like you, the back pain and treatment was always recorded on my medical notes. The only issue I had with that was having to have a thorough medical 20 odd years later, when I retired, to prove that the back problem was gone. There were rumours that I wasn't going to be allowed to retire until it was! It was the scan on my pre-retirement medical that showed up the compressed discs in my lower back - had that technology been around 20 odd years earlier I may have been able to link it directly to that period of flying duties.

VP959
2nd Oct 2016, 15:58
I wonder what the implications would have been if the genders were reversed.
I think the whole idea of bringing a female officer in at that point was to increase our already high levels of psychological stress. I doubt they still run this course the same way now there are female aircrew.

The 48 hours I spent as a "prisoner", at the hands of the Royal Marines, was unpleasant, but there wasn't anything that could be described as physical torture. The worst was being hosed down with cold water, in terms of anything physical, and, perhaps, being made to stand on the tips of my toes with just my fingertips leaning on a tiled wall, for what seemed like hours on end.

The effective bit of this whole exercise was being kept awake by bright lights and loud music, and not getting any sleep. Coupled with the lack of sleep during the "escape and evasion" bit, because our bivvy leaked like a sieve and we were both cold and wet already when we were captured, meant that I had no sleep for around 3 days at the point where the WRAC officer came in to do her bit.

As a young man, confident that nothing was going to get me to say anything if I got caught, the realisation that the human spirit can be broken so quickly, and with so little effort, was an eye-opener.

Stanwell
2nd Oct 2016, 16:16
What are you talking about, VP959?
Our RSM could do that to a bloke, straight after breakfast, within thirty seconds .. (thirty-five, if he was thick as two planks).. :E

alwayzinit
2nd Oct 2016, 19:08
VP959, I did here a version similar to your experience where some wag replied to the "Call these dicks?" question with " Call those Tits?!".

Unbeknownst, said female had serious "issues" regarding her front bumps, brust into tears and ran out!

Oh how her chums "laughed" and "rewarded" said wag.....................

parabellum
2nd Oct 2016, 23:55
Memory may have faded a bit here but I think the DS staff who ran one of the Resistance to Interrogation courses said 72 hours was usually enough to break even the strongest spirit, many didn't last half of that.

VP959
3rd Oct 2016, 10:33
Memory may have faded a bit here but I think the DS staff who ran one of the Resistance to Interrogation courses said 72 hours was usually enough to break even the strongest spirit, many didn't last half of that.
I can easily believe that. After 48 hours they could have got anything they wanted out of me, all I wanted was to get the hell out of there and get some sleep.

I have the utmost admiration for those that withstood prolonged interrogation without giving anything away, they must have been very special people.

IIRC, after the course, during the debrief, we were told that if we stayed schtum for 48 hours that was good enough, as anything we knew would have been overtaken by events by then, and of little value. No idea whether it was true, or just something they said to make us feel better.......................

Hydromet
3rd Oct 2016, 21:13
Ex SAS Chaplain we had, who'd done the Code of Conduct course at Middle Head, Sydney, said that the thing that eventually broke him was that they made him wear a pair of trousers that were too big, had no belt & no buttons, so they kept falling down unless he held them up. It seems they are pretty expert at finding weak points.