View Full Version : Deutsche Bank

29th Sep 2016, 22:26
Seems in the news a lot at the moment, and not for particularly good reasons.
DoJ wants $14 billon for misselling mortgage backed securities. Share price on the slide and rumours / speculation about its future.

Forget the Italian banking crisis...looks like a more serious one is closer at hand.

30th Sep 2016, 01:27
While many big banks have shunned Donald Trump, Deutsche Bank AG has been a steadfast financial backer of the Republican presidential candidate’s business interests. Since 1998, the bank has led or participated in loans of at least $2.5 billion to companies affiliated with Mr. Trump, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of public records and people familiar with the matter.

That doesn’t include at least another $1 billion in loan commitments that Deutsche Bank made to Trump-affiliated entities.


Hussar 54
30th Sep 2016, 08:35
Confusing messages coming out of the Fatherland at the moment. Take your pick -

Rumours that the German Central Back is putting together an emergency rescue package for if the sh*t hits the fan. Unlikely that DB could survive without one if it does....

Rumours that Frau M has categorically said ' NEIN ' to a Government backed rescue if the sh*t hits the fan. As she's already basically screwed quite a few other state backed rescue deals in Greece, Spain, etc, I suppose she'd have to, wouldn't she....

Rumours that the sh*t will definitely hit DB's fan if the EU pushes ahead with its attempt to get money out of Apple's Irish tax dodge....

Rumours that the two events are completely unconnected....

As I said....Take your pick....

30th Sep 2016, 09:03
Oh dear...how the mighty Fall.....possibly a good example of Highly regarded German institutions ..really being not much better than "Geezer Green"

Oh my, what will the ham fisted chancellor of the Fourth Reich do next..??:O

30th Sep 2016, 11:30
It's being said that Commerzbank are in similar difficulties.

Doesn't help either of them that the US govt. have targeted them as the latest victims to prop up the sick US economy.

30th Sep 2016, 12:03
Doesn't help either of them that the US govt. have targeted them as the latest victims to prop up the sick US economy. Retaliation for Apple. As has been pointed out, there may be no direct connection, but the fines are identical.....

30th Sep 2016, 14:23
Hmm, I guess the PGA tour needs to find a new sponsor for that late summer tournament next year. (Deutsche Bank championship, 2-5 Sept, TPC Boston, most recently won by Rory McElroy).

30th Sep 2016, 14:25
Perhaps they need "Fred The Shred" Ex Knight and shamed banker of this neighbourhood..?:D

Chickens and Home roost seems to ring a bell with this news..:D

SMT Member
2nd Oct 2016, 10:23
DB's been run by crooks for ages. If it took the EU putting the whip on Apple, before the US DoD set the cart in motion, so be it. I'm happy, nay ecstatic!, to see DB being haul over the coals! May they fester and die.

Not as if US banks are the tiniest of bits better, of course. Here's the CEO of Wells Fargo getting a roasting. As you may have heard, WF line managers were under huge pressure to sell additional products to their customers. The target was, if memory serves me right, more than 6. Per customer. This drove up WF share prices like a rocket, making it the most valuable bank in the world. And with it, it's top management made hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses. Only one catch: They cheated. Down the line, in the branches, the only way to keep your job was to cheat, by creating new accounts for customers without their knowledge or accept. So that's what they did, in the multiple thousands. 5000 people got fired when the scandal broke, all of them minions and none of them from HQ who drove the scam.


2nd Oct 2016, 17:25
WF line managers were under huge pressure to sell additional products to their customers.
That word again! Can anyone please tell me what products these scam-merchants produce? Apart from bonuses for the untouchable unspeakable scammers, that is.

2nd Oct 2016, 18:50
Can anyone please tell me what products these scam-merchants produce?


Unlike the rest of us, they're allowed to create new money out of thin air.

2nd Oct 2016, 23:05
The DB bullion story is more interesting . They had to melt down a lot of gold and re-assay the gold after the serial numbers of the bullion did not match the gold delivered .
I would avoid driving behind any armoured vehicle convoys in Germany just in case the same guys who took out Alfred Herrhausen are after more DB execs.
The irony of a banker killed by copper demonstrates the killers had an artistic flare. Almost as beautiful as killing a person that was attempting to aquire and sell nuclear weapons with a radioactive poison like Polonium. Giving an arms dealer a taste of what he was willing to do to others was Justice .

I wonder if they will just disappear like the money or have a more entertaining expressive ending to serve as a warning to others .
Roberto Calvi found out the hard way not to upset certain bankers . The bricks in his pockets and where he was found, gave a serious hint as to who did the deed.

Hussar 54
3rd Oct 2016, 20:34

I don't know anything about the DB / Bullion story.

Sounds interesting !

Please can you post some links, or send me some links by the PPruNe pm ?

Many Thanks in advance.

Interesting comment here -


3rd Oct 2016, 22:25
Germany's Gold Repatriation Activist Peter Boehringer Gets Results - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-05/germany-s-gold-repatriation-activist-peter-boehringer-gets-results)

The serial number mix up is being downplayed ,but it did slow down the repatriation and may mean nothing other than a simple small honest error in a system that is supposed to be solid. The hint of 1920 errors in the article was an interesting historical repeat .A Deja Vu all over again ?


http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/01/09/what-really-happened-to-the-german-gold-housed-in-the-united-states/ (http://nsnbc.me/2014/01/16/germanys-gold-fed-dummies/)

Got to go, there is a knock at the door :)

4th Oct 2016, 02:59
I think it was Sir Humphrey who said "never believe anything, until it is officially denied'. No plan to bail out DB? - yeah, right.

4th Oct 2016, 03:24
More of the delights of fractional reserve banking.
When will we learn?

4th Oct 2016, 06:33
6700 tons of Gold...!

that must contain some of the same that was taken for safe-keeping from my Great Great Grandfather.' when those friendly Huns rolled into Poland to rescue them and protect the state from those nasty Rooshians..

Please could I have it all back, please...who would I speak to about this..?:ooh:

4th Oct 2016, 07:21
That word again! Can anyone please tell me what products these scam-merchants produce? Apart from bonuses for the untouchable unspeakable scammers, that is.

Having your cake, and eating it.


ramble on
5th Oct 2016, 05:20
Modern Banking = Ponzi Scheme

5th Oct 2016, 08:19
Banks make money to pay staff and investors by two means. Firstly by charging more interest on loans than they give to investors, secondly by merchant banking and financial instruments - gambling if you like.

Governments have killed the first by using QE along the financial train to reduce interest rates down to 0.25% or even negative figures, they have killed the second by forcing banks to either stop, reduce or even divest themselves of the second.

Then they wonder why banks are going under........


5th Oct 2016, 09:02
Firstly by charging more interest on loans than they give to investors, ...............
Governments have killed the first by using QE along the financial train to reduce interest rates down to 0.25%

That argument I do not understand. I deposit money and receive 0.25%. I borrow money and am charged 3%. That is > my deposit interest. Thus the first condition still applies. So how is that dead?

5th Oct 2016, 09:17
Deutsche Bank has the smell of death about it in the same way that RBS did for about five years before it was finally admitted to be dead on its feet.


5th Oct 2016, 09:27
RAT5, see link below. The problem is that the investors with real money aren't interested in that rate of return - they are investing in stocks and shares instead, or in buy-to-rent property etc.


5th Oct 2016, 11:47
I listened to a very good discussion of the DB situation on the Slate Money podcast (http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/slate_money/2016/10/slate_money_discusses_the_wsj_college_rankings_list_deutsche _bank_s_financial.html) this morning - middle third of the program, after discussion of college rankings. My takeaways from that:

DB is not insolvent in general - they have € trillions in assets - but they are having some difficulty raising some "tier 1" operating capital. It's a short-term cash flow problem, in other words.
They are also negotiating with the US DOJ about a settlement of a fine, imposed in response to "the misselling of mortgage-backed securities in the run up to the financial crisis of 2008" (link (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/05/deutsche-bank-shares-seesaw-as-speculation-of-a-doj-settlement-grows.html)).
There's speculation that the two things are linked: that DB don't want to be too successful in raising capital yet, because that might encourage the DOJ to impose a bigger fine. Their funding problems help their negotiating position, in other words. Once that matter is settled, they'll know where they are.
Deutsche Bank has significant assets and the impicit weight of the ECB behind them, ready to bail them out. They aren't in serious danger of going under.

5th Oct 2016, 18:35
Did they mention the 48Trillion (does it matter the currency ?!) derivatives exposure ??? Apparently many of these are coming to their settlement/maturity date and the cupboard is, unsurprisingly bare. DB is huge and does have massive assets and influence, but the derivative position is a rather insurmountable hurdle...

5th Oct 2016, 20:04
German Gov in "discrete" talks with US authorities about Deutsche Bank
Berlin pursues discreet talks with U.S. officials on Deutsche Bank | Reuters (http://in.reuters.com/article/germany-deutsche-bank-politics-idINKCN1252AL)
I'm sure the message will be clear - stop pestering Apple and we will 'forget' the fine....

pax britanica
5th Oct 2016, 20:28

I am sure you are right-the problem is its another instance of the crooks -swindelers and charlatanss to use David Camerons recent words gettign away with it and leaving us as the customers to pick up the bill .

Easy way to stop it- a rest the CEO or in country senior manager and put them in jail for a long time without trial using all the power of a government to fend off the expensive lawyer efforts to get them out . A couple of months in Rikers island for the DB people and the same in a suitable east European EC country prison for an Apple top man and there wont be any more playing games with the tax people -fines, even in the Billions are just a business expense. The top people in these companies do not just know the company is doing wrong they, as has been pointed out ,are usually the instigators

6th Oct 2016, 10:49
It has always been the classic case of people 'playing' with other peoples' money with no accountability nor responsibility. They are so used to telephone numbers of amounts. We, the peasants, work in 100's; some richer friends work in 1000's when it is our money. We take note of the numbers. Businesses, the hugely successful ones might work in single figure millions. i.e. number they can absorb, risk, lose, recover. Just like us, but larger. Banks became used to working in, not 10's millions, but 100's millions. The bigger the number the bigger the bonuses. Once the bonuses were in their accounts and pocketed away it didn't matter if the farm burnt down next year, the bonus was secure. Ha anyone paid back bonuses gained due to all the mis-selling and mis-valuing? The banks have been fined, i.e. the corporate structure, but what about the individuals who sanctioned the criminal deeds? What have they lost, personally? Not a lot. So what is to stop them doing it again? And please don't say the FSA or FED or any other government agency. Striking them up in public to set an example would send a message, and strip them of all their ill-gotten gains. If the governments can strip a drug dealer of all assets gained with illegal money why can the same not be true of all these financial white collar tossers? How did they buy their mansions, cars-planes & automobiles? How did they fund their lavish life-styles?
They took the long knives to their companies to cut costs and boost dodgy profits. Time for the long knives to start carving closure to home. The blood has been spilt by the wrong people.

7th Oct 2016, 11:35
It will be interesting to see how DB come out from this "Small problem" it has been reported said by the House Frau, but in another daily rag here in the UK the Frau has reiterated "she will not bale em out"

Could we possibly see a "European major Bank Dangling" shortly , it also seems 4000 workers are set to lose their jobs at DB..! :ooh:

Could this be the start of an inwards collapse of the European Banking system..? after all the Krauts have the largest Clout in the EU ,and following the very hard ball played with Greece and Portugal/Spain by the Germans it is hardly able to rescue it own... or is that a different ball game..!

7th Oct 2016, 16:46
or is that a different ball game

The Germans don't play rugby therefore they can not blame the bounce for their decision; if it is hypocritical.