ATPL or ATPL with a Bachelor ?

[batmax]

Hi guys,
I need your help. I wanted to start my degree course ILST (Germany, Hochschule Bremen) together with my ATPL in October. After 4 1/2 years of studying I could have a Bachelor of engineering and a frozen ATPL in 2020/2021. But I'm not sure if this is the right way. The market for pilots is recovering really fast by now and so I am currently thinking about to do the frozen ATPL without the bachelor. But what would you recommend ? Should I do my degree course with a frozen ATPL or should I only do the frozen ATPL ? I am afraid that the market in 4 years is broken again and I won`t get a job. But if I'm doing the frozen ATPL without the Bachelor right now and finish it in 2 years, the situation could be much better than in 4 years. I am really confused :confused:

[wiggy]

The market for pilots is recovering really fast by now

According to some accounts...

I am afraid that the market in 4 years is broken again and I won`t get a job.

TBH even if you go straight for the frozen ATPL now the market for pilots could be just as broken in 2 years and you won't get a job. In fact get a repeat of 9/11 and the market for pilots could be broken next week.

There's no correct answer to your question since you'll only know if what you did was right or wrong with hindsight .what I would say is IMHO hopefully the B.Eng at least helps gives you other options should the flying not work out, for whatever reason.

Good Luck anyway, whatever your decision.

[safelife]

The markets have recovered - what you see now is as good as it gets.
By bet would be that in two years from now it's bad again. And won't be good again in four.
So that's nothing you should use to judge your options.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I have a BEng and a CPL (never bothered with ATPLs as I've no great interest in going multicrew, if that changes, I'll go and do the extra exams), and have progressed fairly happily through life with the combination, and built on both.

In my opinion the combination of the two is absolutely great IF you have a deep desire to work on the boundaries of aviation and engineering. If you have an aspiration to be a test pilot, follow a military senior aviation career, or a researcher in aeronautical engineering (I've done two of those three, arguably all three if you'll accept running an ex-military research unit).

However, if you only want to be a civil pilot, don't waste your time and money doing an engineering degree. It is far more technical education, at far greater cost, than you will ever require.

If you really only want to be a professional engineer, then for now at least don't muck about with that level of flying training. Do a PPL, get on with your professional engineering training - and if you want more flying qualifications later, do those (and pay for those) whilst you're working as an Engineer.

If you want a backup, do something that makes you immediately employable and has a very long shelf life such as a swimming instructor or short order chef. 4 years of engineering, to give you the ability to *try* and enter a graduate training programme when you've already (from an engineering employer's viewpoint) wasted two years mucking about with aeroplanes while you forgot your engineering theory, is an incredibly high risk, and frankly stupid, strategy.

[wiggy]

That's excellent advice Genghis, however I still think the OP needs to be aware that as safelife has said there are signs we've already passed "peak pilot" and are heading for another dip. I'd certainly be wary of finessing my career choices on the basis of predictions for recruitment in 2 and 4 years.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Very fair points Wiggly. To a large extent I think that you and I were answering different parts of the question, I think.

[batmax]

Thank you for the opinions. I think I will do the ATPL with a bachelor of engineering. Because I will have more possibilities for a job, e.g.:TK is only looking for pilots with a bachelor.

Or am I wrong? :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

An airline I know has hired over 5000 pilots since inception. They have NEVER hired a pilot without a four year bachelors degree

Really? ?? Can you offer any evidence to support this statement?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thank you for the opinions. I think I will do the ATPL with a bachelor of engineering. Because I will have more possibilities for a job, e.g.:TK is only looking for pilots with a bachelor.

Or am I wrong? :)
Neither Engineer nor Pilot are, ultimately, jobs alone - they are careers. I would recommend that you learn about both, the entry routes and career paths, and pick one unless you do want the sort of combined career I have, but most people don't really want.

You need to be pretty dedicated to achieve either. I would also recommend doing a PPL to see if you really have the aptitude and drive to become a pilot, before you commit to the demands and costs of commercialtraining.

[Jaair]

Really? ?? Can you offer any evidence to support this statement?



It seems 'button push ignored' is from the US. It wouldn't surprise me if what he is saying is true as the majors rarely hire pilots without a degree.

[Genghis the Engineer]

True, but usually "mickey mouse " degrees from community colleges and glorified flight schools. Whilst it's not unique to meet pilots with BS,.BE or MS degrees, it's unusual and I'very not come across it being required.