CAA TO THE RESCUE?

[rocketboots]

I have been watching the wannabees forum for some time know over the past few months,and in that time have seen various approved ground schools go to the wall.The events of September have no doubt put pilot training into a severe downturn.Obviously the question must be asked,if that all of the airlines have furloughed cadet training for the next couple of years(based on the assumption that there will be already type rated pilots who lost there jobs in the last few months,taking up what little slack there is in the system),then some of the larger training providers will be relying on the self sponsored student,namelt you and i!!.
The problem is,that there are know fewer ground schools to choose from,there will be little chance of a job in the next few years,the cost of training is astronomical,many self funded students are protecting there jobs at the moment in the current economical enviroment,and the JAR exams continue to be a fiasco.
So who can try and kick start training?.I feel that the goverment has a role to play in terms of some form of tax relief,that is for sure,but i feel that the CAA has a responsibility to the training student with regards to the written exams!!!.How long will it be before people sitting the exams will start drying up?No students=no money=no CPL flight test=no licence issue fee=no medical renewal fee.Get my drift

[Polar_stereographic]

rocketboots

Here we go again. I agree with you, but it's all been said time and time before and to no avail. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it's not been found on this forum or any other one to date.

The CAA have a long history of moving goal posts, charging what they like etc etc etc, and do date no one has to my knowledge managed to stand against them with any success.

My personal view is that it should be down to a body like AOPA to put a stand up, but as I understand it they don't seem to be up to the job. Lack of membership probably does not help either.

We don't have an effective effective lobbying body, but lots of smaller specialist ones. It is in the CAA's interests to have AOPA, PFA etc rather than one powerfull voice in my view.

PS

[rocketboots]

PS
Thanks for replying.I totaly agree in that the CAA seems to be beyond the touch of us mere mortals.But i fear that perhaps this time things may just take its natural path.It pains me to say it,but if the ground schools all start going to the wall,then they will have to step in take some control over the situation.As some instructors from the various schools have said,the problem with getting students through the doors was cock up factor of the new exams.When we had the national exams in place,ground schools were packed,and there finances were healthy.

[RVR800]

They get very little revenue from all this
and they clearly don't care. Training providers will collapse as they did do in the early 90's Remember Trent. They probably see it as a cyclical problem (10 years)

SRG will continue making changes to what was a perfectly satisfactory system in line
with JAA requirements so that we can all get jobs with Swissair Al Italia or Sabena. Or Air France (although if you went to WMU you may find this difficult now!)

JAR - FCL
Nobody voted for it
Nobody wanted it
Nobody needs it

Mobility of flight crew in Europe -
A price worth paying ? (come on then
cough up....

hi PS




They are a monopoly and will just increase the fees if the beancounters require it.

[Polar_stereographic]

rocketboots

And just to add, you cock it up with a system that makes it very dificult to get people through, but at the same time leave the door WIDE open for others JAA members to walk in without providing the same in return. Yes, I know we can all get jobs in France etc, but I'd like to know how many non-French pilots are working in France against non-English ones over here. RVR800's favorite topic.

My point again, is that some body man enough to take the Belgrano on should use this as another tack and get the government involved with this, namely they are not helping the UK employment.

PS

[Polar_stereographic]

RVR800,

I'd almost finished typing my previous post when the phone rang, so I'd not seen your reply before I posted mine.

Unfortunately, I suspect that this has always been the way, but I stand to be corrected on that one. For sure, it has all the time I've been involved with aviation (ie since the late 80's)

PS

[Gedifroggy]

About Air France,(I am a former crew member of this company).
First, I have strong indications that the Air France management want to enlarge the recruitment to all europe citizens, but the problem is the huge number of french unemployed ATPL and the position of pilot unions.
Second point, Air France has visited a large number of schools in the past months and has explain what they want about training. It is clear that they are not considering the "build up " of hours as most of schools are considering. Those hours must replace the lack of experience in the ab-initio training to make it more understandable in an american major airline the recruited pilots have gotten a large experience (roughly 2500hours). In Europe, general aviation is not developed as in the US. So the compensatory build-up must be done through 1/10 of these hours. You can understand easily that the training as conceived in the States (to provide pilots to regional airlines and /or general aviation , pilots who will join a major airlines a couple of years later after getting a strong experience)is not the same than the training for ab-initio cadets who will be first officer on a 320 or a B737 with 300/400 hours. Selection is quite severe, because from a point of view of the management mostly of time, when you have a problem(serious incident or accident) , there were also problems during the training.
If you want more informations on the way the flight training must be done on a point of view of a major airline, contact the main provider of Air France cadets: EPAG (Merville Airport)
To those who are going to spend a lot of money in a "build up", the number of hours and the cost are not the only aspects to consider.
Gedifroggy

[Polar_stereographic]

Gedifroggy,

Nice post. I like your point about the large numbers of unemployed ATPL's and the unions objection to foreigners being employed instead of them.

I only wish the same applied over here.

PS

[Gedifroggy]

Answering to Polar_stereographic,
In fact any pilot union is under the pressure of its members, even if they know that their position is not sustainable on the long term, so the position of the french unions is understandable even if - to my personal opinion- they will have to modify it. It is obvious that there is a lack of coordination between Pilot's Unions at the European level on this paricular subject.
On the management side, I know that a lot of the unemployed french pilots are not meeting the Air France requirements and that the management -as every management- would prefer a wider range of choice. But to all wannabes, I try to make clear that "the Hour building" must be done very carefully. Air France (-and Lufthansa to my knowledge-) have expressed their technical point of view on the flight training to several british schools and none (of the British schools) is meeting their requirements - a fortiori the american schools-.
A major american airline recruits a pilot with at least 2500 hours. The purpose of the training of a cadet is to compensate this lack of experience in 200 hours because the european general aviation is nearly not existing. It is a challenge and it is obvious that the american schools have not the know-how.
To all wannabes again: be careful in the way you are investing your money, number of hours and costs are not the first criteria!
I confirm also the site of EPAG: www.iaagepag.com (http://www.iaagepag.com)
Regards
Gedifroggy