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Mike6567
21st Sep 2016, 19:52
I was going to put this in the Tech section but decided to risk it here.
I stopped flying 18 years ago and for the life of me I can't remember where the TOGA switch was on the B757/767. Was it behind the throttles?
Before this I was on the L1011. Was it on the control column?
Where is it on the B777? It might help me understand how they got into so much trouble in Dubai.
Sorry for such a hopeless memory.
Mike

Stan Woolley
21st Sep 2016, 21:36
I can only speak for the 757/767. They are thumb switches on the edge and behind the thrust lever housing.

I've looked at pics of the 777 and it has different design of thrust lever, it's definitely different from the 767/757. (Don't know about he 767-400)

The L1011 no idea! ;)

11Fan
21st Sep 2016, 21:45
Mike,

Where is it on the B777?

Ken V posted a picture of the 777 TOGA on another thread. Here's the picture as well as the thread link, currently Post #1578.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/commercial-vehicles/1507273d1463256783-boeing-777-pilots-review-throttle-switches.jpg

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/582445-emirates-b777-gear-collapse-dxb-79.html

Sue VÍtements
21st Sep 2016, 22:34
It's below the Wreath of Olive Leaves switches and above the Sandals switches :}


well this IS JetBlast

Mike6567
22nd Sep 2016, 08:07
Thanks 11Fan and Stan. That post #1578 explains all I was thinking.
Mike

(Still can't remember if it was on the control column on the Tristar)

Tankertrashnav
22nd Sep 2016, 09:47
As this is JetBlast and not up at the top of the page it might be nice to explain what a TOGA switch is/does.

Takan Inchovit
22nd Sep 2016, 09:53
They drop a sheet over the crew when there is an overnighter.

Mike6567
22nd Sep 2016, 10:18
Sorry Tanker for the aviation content.
As it was a simple question I was embarassed to ask at the top of the page in case they all moaned.
Mike

Stan Woolley
22nd Sep 2016, 10:23
On the Tristar it was indeed on the control column according to some pic I found.

Amazing how you forget stuff, it's only been five years since I lost my medical and I couldn't remember what the toga switches were like on the 737, on which I've got thousands of hours.

Can hypnosis dig them out? Anything else?

Tre on type too! Thought I'd remember some things forever.

Dont Hang Up
22nd Sep 2016, 10:49
As this is JetBlast and not up at the top of the page it might be nice to explain what a TOGA switch is/does.

As this is JetBlast and one does not need to be ashamed of showing ignorance, it might be nice to explain why TOGA switches are needed.

Whatever is wrong with ramming the thrust levers hard against the end-stops when one needs some uncompromised full power? Pushing some piddling switch seems disappointingly undramatic.

wiggy
22nd Sep 2016, 10:50
It doesn't just ram the engines up to full power ... You may well not want that for performance (control reasons) in some circumstances..indeed full power in some circumstances might be lethal

In simple terms if pressed on take-Off TOGA should put the automatics/flight director into take off mode and runs the engines up to a pre determined take-off power.

If pressed on approach it should put the automatics/flight director into a mode that gives go-around guidance, and runs the engines up to an appropriate power to make sure you climb away at an appropriate rate of climb.

FWIW if on approach you don't press TOGA on many types and you do simply ram the levers forward, you can end up very seriously embarrassed because the autopilot/flight director will happily carry on providing landing guidance.....ask Air France...

Details vary from type to type...but given this indeed is jet blast will that do?

Dont Hang Up
22nd Sep 2016, 11:02
...but given this indeed is jet blast will that do?

Indeed! Thanks

Incidentally, is it true that for maximum power, male pilots go "balls to the wall" whilst female pilots go "wide open"?

(...he said, thus lowering JB to its more usual level)

Bergerie1
22nd Sep 2016, 13:04
I once went to a toga party. My car wouldn't start so had to push start it and trod on my toga with disastrous results. The take-off was in the dark so, fortunately, there were few witnesses!

KenV
22nd Sep 2016, 15:04
Whatever is wrong with ramming the thrust levers hard against the end-stops when one needs some uncompromised full power? Pushing some piddling switch seems disappointingly undramatic.There's nothing wrong with what you suggest. However, pressing TOGA lets the airplane know what the pilot is doing so it can assist. For a go around, the airplane will assist by providing flight director bars for the optimum attitude to achieve and maintain optimum climb rate and maintain heading. If the autopilot is engaged and coupled, it will pitch the aircraft to achieve that attitude and roll the aircraft to maintain heading.

For takeoff, you often do not want to use full power for multiple reasons. Pressing TOGA during takeoff will cause the autothrottle to set the optimum rather than full thrust and the autopilot to automatically rotate the aircraft at rotate speed and set optimum climb attitude and heading for the climbout. If the autopilot is not engaged, TOGA will cause the Flight Director to give the pilot cues for pitch and roll for the climbout.

FWIW if on approach you don't press TOGA on many types and you do simply ram the levers forward, you can end up very seriously embarrassed because the autopilot/flight director will happily carry on providing landing guidance.....ask Air France...On all Boeing types, the pilot can over ride the automatics by simply grabbing the stick (or yoke) and throttle and fly the plane manually. That is not (necessarily) true of other type aircraft.

And to answer the OP, 757/767 TOGA switches are here:
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/Markoz958/2010-7-25_3-0-24-81.jpg

Stan Woolley
22nd Sep 2016, 19:11
Pressing TOGA during takeoff will cause the autothrottle to set the optimum rather than full thrust and the autopilot to automatically rotate the aircraft at rotate speed and set optimum climb attitude and heading for the climbout.

There's a minimum autopilot engage height on take-off. Usually 400agl in my experience if I recall right. No airliner I know of rotates on autopilot.

wiggy
22nd Sep 2016, 20:06
Stan - agreed, I'm not sure where Ken is getting the info from but whilst there's a danger of drifting into back into tech territory rather than Jet blast thread territory I'll make a few observations for the benefit of the non techies still trying to follow this.

FWIW on the likes of the 777/744 the takeoff is a good old fashioned manual by eyeball manoeuvre (even in fog) aiming to rotate the aircraft towards a target pitch attitude once you have passed an appropriate speed. It's manual flight then until minimum autopilot engagement height of 200 feet ( on the 777). Like you I'm not aware of any airliner that uses autopilot for takeoff.....

Ken

On all Boeing types, the pilot can over ride the automatics by simply grabbing the stick (or yoke) .
Well you can try but on some triples wrestling with the yoke will achieve nothing. It might be a matter of semantics but literally "grabbing the stick" isn't the best, or recommended way of over riding the automatics on some Boeings.

B Fraser
23rd Sep 2016, 05:41
I did hear of a dyslexic chap who went to a toga party dressed as a goat.

Bergerie1
23rd Sep 2016, 08:15
And for all you far too serious types, here are some TOGA instructions:-
3 Ways to Make a Toga out of a Bedsheet - wikiHow (http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Toga-out-of-a-Bedsheet)

Trossie
23rd Sep 2016, 08:46
Isn't a 'Toga switch' when you change from your jeans and T-shirt into this type of get-up:
http://images.costumesgalore.net/products/684/1-2/roman-senator-costume.jpg

(Getting engaged to an autopilot? Would that be Otto's girlfriend in 'Airplane'?)

KenV, Wooley and wiggy are taking life far too seriously!!

wiggy
23rd Sep 2016, 09:22
Trossie - point taken, by way of an apology:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18eaNSxhK5c

Warning..strong language.....

david1300
23rd Sep 2016, 11:22
And to answer the OP, 757/767 TOGA switches are here:
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/Markoz958/2010-7-25_3-0-24-81.jpg

And that thingy labelled "Flaps" on the right - is that what you get into if your TOGA switch doesn't work as expected?

Loose rivets
23rd Sep 2016, 11:50
Oh my goodness! A non-QUERTY keypad. Aaaaaaaagh. My brain would freeze and I'd end up in Coqinteqm.

I once took an hour sending a telex from France . . . maybe more than an hour, and all it said was, Yer plane's broke.

KenV
23rd Sep 2016, 13:30
I'm going to go out on a limb here and post a "serious" reply on a Jet Blast thread.

There's a minimum autopilot engage height on take-off. Usually 400agl in my experience if I recall right. No airliner I know of rotates on autopilot. You are of course correct, the autopilot is inhibited. Really bad writing. I intended to say that after pressing TOGA the pilot will get autothrottle and FD guidance to assist in the takeoff. My bad. And my apologies. As for "grabbing the stick and throttle" the stick (yoke) on Boeing products have an autopilot disconnect switch and the thrust levers have an autothrust disconnect switch. When I said "grab" I should have been more clear and stated press the disconnect button while grabbing the stick or thrust levers to take over manual control. Once again, my bad. Haste makes waste.

Trossie
23rd Sep 2016, 13:38
Otto will be baffled by that last post!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31TAHk2Uu3L.jpg

(Now what do I remember seeing Otto 'grab' in that movie?)

Mike6567
23rd Sep 2016, 17:14
Sorry this is another "serious" reply on Jet Blast just to thank Ken and to say I feel his post #1578 at the top (R&N) very interesting in relation to the Dubai accident.

I found the Go Around Switch on the 757 very good. The one on the 777 looks rather awkward but must have been an advance on earlier Boeing designs so I assume just as easy to use.

Mike

Mr Optimistic
23rd Sep 2016, 19:23
Well from what I have learnt by reading....

Always push them twice

Push the levers to the end stop

Hello moon

BlankBox
23rd Sep 2016, 21:40
...what does an a340 do when you punch TOGA...dry hair faster?? :E