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View Full Version : tyre kickers, why don't they listen?


rans6andrew
15th Sep 2016, 20:26
Ever since my partner bought herself the same car as I have, only new rather than 10 years old, we have had a steady trickle of oiks knocking on the door wanting to know if my old one is for sale. Every time I tell them the same, yes, the price is £1200, no offers. Despite this I get offered £500, going to £550 when I repeat £1200. They still persist with silly offers.

Why don't they listen? Time wasters, the lot of them.

When this started 6 years ago the price was £1800, no offers.

I don't know if the price reflects market value, there are so few of the same model/age/mileage/condition on the usual car buying websites that it is difficult to get a feel for the true value. It is the price I would let it go for bearing in mind that I would need to replace it with something similar but newer, fairly quickly. It is the only car I have access to with a towbar and I have a boat to move from time to time.

As an aside, why do all car buyers assume that car prices are for beating down? I don't think like that, I decide what I am prepared to sell for and make it clear to anyone that asks. I am not a dealership balancing commission with quantity supplier discounts and trade in values etc, I am an individual who is not actively trying to sell his car but if the price is right............

Mechta
15th Sep 2016, 21:11
You could try rewording your reply to them, "As I know how its been driven and maintained, its worth £1200 to me. If you offer me more than that, its yours; any less and I'm better off keeping it. The choice is yours."

G-CPTN
15th Sep 2016, 21:17
For years I had a vehicle that suited me ideally but was getting long in the tooth.
Each year when it came up for its MOT I calculated its worth (to me) which was complicated by the fact that the model was no longer in production (mine was one of the last produced and was loaded with extras - as they do to clear the production line of parts that would otherwise be worthless) and the replacement (which I road-tested) was nowhere near as suitable - and it drove like a pudding.
From my perceived value I decided how much I was prepared to spend on repairs - a figure that included how much I would have to spend simply to change to an identical model (assuming that I could find one in similar condition).
Each year I was relieved when it passed the MOT (the worst 'fail' was when I had directional tyres on the wrong way round - I resubmitted it after swapping the wheels side to side).
I had a panic when my pre-test check revealed that the stoplamps weren't working due to a faulty 99p switch - which would have required removal of the complete facia (including the airbags) to replace, however, a squirt of WD40 revived the switch.

I sold it to a local tradesman when I became afraid of the impending demise but it is still going 23,500 miles and four years later - I see it around the village occasionally.

Checking the MOT records there have been several potentially expensive repairs needed (including broken roadsprings and front shockabsorbers - probably connected).

llondel
15th Sep 2016, 21:31
My last UK car is still going, it's in its 18th year now. It was sad to have to part with it, and I hear that when it goes in for service/MOT the new owner gets complimented on the good condition. I didn't sell it, I passed it on to a family member who needed a car and appreciates it.

ShyTorque
15th Sep 2016, 21:54
My son advertised his old BMW 320 coupe, online, at just £1200, NO OFFERS.

It was a lovely car, with the classic BMW 6 pot engine, and had been his pride and joy. However, he had his eyes on a newer 1 series diesel because his new job required him to do more miles and he needed better fuel economy.

A chap arrived in a very tatty and dirty old 5 series, saying he was looking at cars for his son. I was outside working on my own car next to my son's and instantly suspected he was a tyre kicker by his demeanor. This chap apparently wanted a car in as new condition with zero mileage and not only that he definitely wasn't prepared to pay £1200.

He offered £650. My son looked across at me and I just gently shook my head. This chap then went all around the car telling us all about every small scratch on the paintwork (there weren't many, the car was in very good condition and had a full service history). He then started on how these old BMWs could cost a fortune to run, etc etc. and how he was going to do my son a favour by taking it off his hands.

No, he wasn't. My son was a lot more polite than I would have been in telling him the asking price was the selling price, so silly offers, as per the advert. The chap went away, grumbling.

The car was sold 30 minutes later, to someone who had asked a few pertinent questions over the phone and turned up the same afternoon, cash in hand.

My son immediately closed the online advert. Not long afterwards the tyre kicker rang my son, telling him he'd seen the sold notice, but still wanted to discuss its bad points and to say that as far as he was concerned the car still wasn't worth the asking price.:ugh:

My son wasn't quite so polite this time.

TURIN
15th Sep 2016, 21:57
Works for me.

Bangernomics (http://www.bangernomics.com/)

G-CPTN
15th Sep 2016, 23:49
A neighbour, who had his house by the river flooded to the depth of his pool table, has downsized from his leased Ford Ranger in favour of a £100 small car.

UniFoxOs
16th Sep 2016, 07:40
If you want £1200 start off by asking £1500, simple.

andytug
16th Sep 2016, 08:21
World is full of people trying to get something for nothing, try doing a car boot sale, you'll get hundreds of them. Price stuff at 50p they'll offer you 10. Maybe in the last hour if you want rid, but at the start?
Negotiating is fine, taking the rip is not. A firm No goes a long way.

Effluent Man
16th Sep 2016, 08:48
You should be so lucky selling one car. I had thirty five years of it. People have all kinds of weird expectations. Look at the Webuyanycar adverts, they tell prospective buyers that they can negotiate a two and a half grand discount.

I used to add exactly a thousand on what a piece of stock cost me and I was prepared to give half of that as a discount for no trade in. I usually opened at four hundred then threw in some road tax. These days £83.33 goes to the Vatman. So you have exactly £417 to cover everything else. That's why I now deal in property, it's far more lucrative.

Martin the Martian
16th Sep 2016, 12:42
It happens wherever people buy and sell.

I sell plastic kits in my shop, and the following are all true:

(frequently) Customer: "What's your best price on this?"
Me: "The price on the price label."

Customer brings a box to the counter with price reduction from £40 to £35. Asks if he can have it for £28;

Customer brings two Airfix starter kits (total £15) to the counter and asks if there is discount for bulk;

Another customer (who I have never met before) brings two Airfix starter sets to the counter and asks if he gets discount for being a good customer.

The problem is that the rise of consumer rights TV programmes encourage a lot of people into thinking they can easily negotiate price reductions. Most of them cannot, however, and will give up when their first offer is refused or do not have a plan B. I'm frequently amazed at the lack of negotiating skills shown by the contestants on The Apprentice, who are all supposed to be great salespeople.

I will drop prices when I feel it is warranted, and will more likely do so at a model show rather than in the shop. Other shopkeepers in the arcade where I am based can relate similar tales, and as we all say, would the customer expect to get a discount at the check out in Tesco? Very unlikely.

Sue VÍtements
16th Sep 2016, 13:24
Offering the asking price is not necessarily a solution:

I recently saw a beautiful 6 series BMW on Gumtree. I sent the guy a message to say that I wanted to buy the car for my son and was ready to pay the full asking price, I told the seller that I had read through the advert and that I was totally satisfied with it and will be glad if he can get back to me fast.

I mentioned that unfortunately I wouldn't be able to come for the inspection and pick up due to my disabilities, (I loss my hearing and I'm in a wheelchair) but that I have a courier agent that [:rolleyes:] will help me to pick it up at his preferred location.

I went on to say that regarding the payment I can only pay via PayPal at the moment and I will be responsible for all the PayPal fee/charges on this transaction and could he kindly get back to me with his PayPal email and the pick up location so that i can inform the courier agent about it now?


After that generous offer I heard nothing so I responded again to say that I was sorry but am disabled and have limited access to cash and other payment methods. I went on to explain that the seller can setup a PayPal account at www.paypal.com it's very safe and secure. Also it's very easy to set up within few minutes.


Still no response so I got a little more forceful and sent another message saying what is the name associated with that PayPal details and email as I need to confirm before I make payment?
Just to clarify,how much should I send into your PayPal account?




So you see even offering the asking price isn't a guarantee that the sale will complete. Maybe I just annoyed the seller by using a lower case I throughout all my messages :*

PLovett
16th Sep 2016, 13:42
Offering the asking price is not necessarily a solution:

I recently saw a beautiful 6 series BMW on Gumtree. I sent the guy a message to say that I wanted to buy the car for my son and was ready to pay the full asking price, I told the seller that I had read through the advert and that I was totally satisfied with it and will be glad if he can get back to me fast.

I mentioned that unfortunately I wouldn't be able to come for the inspection and pick up due to my disabilities, (I loss my hearing and I'm in a wheelchair) but that I have a courier agent that [] will help me to pick it up at his preferred location.

I went on to say that regarding the payment I can only pay via PayPal at the moment and I will be responsible for all the PayPal fee/charges on this transaction and could he kindly get back to me with his PayPal email and the pick up location so that i can inform the courier agent about it now?


After that generous offer I heard nothing so I responded again to say that I was sorry but am disabled and have limited access to cash and other payment methods. I went on to explain that the seller can setup a PayPal account at www.paypal.com it's very safe and secure. Also it's very easy to set up within few minutes.


Still no response so I got a little more forceful and sent another message saying what is the name associated with that PayPal details and email as I need to confirm before I make payment?
Just to clarify,how much should I send into your PayPal account?




So you see even offering the asking price isn't a guarantee that the sale will complete. Maybe I just annoyed the seller by using a lower case I throughout all my messages

So it was you who wanted to buy my guitar when I recently advertised it on Gumtree. It was exactly the same message. If I had known it was you I would have answered immediately. I am so sorry I didn't respond, I was rolling around the floor laughing.

Now where's the tongue-in-cheek thingie?

Sue VÍtements
16th Sep 2016, 13:45
I can't stand the "What is the lowest price you'll take?" bullsh1t

What they are really asking is "I know you have advertised it for X but I'd like to open the negotiating at Y where Y < X"

Because you KNOW that if you say Y then they'll start noticing stuff and saying "well how about Y minus Z?"

I sell stuff on craigslist and I get this from time to time and my response is a polite "Why don't you come over, take a look at the item and then we can start negotiating" This seems to take the wind out of most people's sails and generally ends up in a successful deal.

That's the polite response. At some point I might try the impolite response of (... I need another letter now) W but make W higher than the original X. If they complain I'll either say well I was going to negotiate up to W or just simply say that was then, this is now.

[email protected]@rds!

Sue VÍtements
16th Sep 2016, 13:48
I Joe Loss my hearing

http://image2.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2005/220/11502758_112361268809.jpg

Allan Lupton
16th Sep 2016, 14:02
The other problem one gets is how to remain civil in the face of aggressive ignorance. A couple of examples
In 1979 or so I was advertising my 15 year old Daimler SP250 in Motor Sport magazine and had a phone call from someone who sounded quite interested
Q: The Daimler SP250: is that what they call the Dart?
A: Yes they did, but Dodge claimed the name, so it was called the SP250.
Q: What sort of condition is the body? Is there much fibreglass?
A: Yes there is a lot of fibreglass.
Q: I don't like bodies with any fibreglass.
A: Well you won't want an SP250 then.
Q: What d'you mean?
A: I mean you should have done a bit more homework before telephoning me.
(for them as don't know the SP250 had a fibreglass body.)

Around the same time I was selling an Ogle Mini, another fibreglass job, in that case based on an original Mini floor pan that had a tube frame structure added. Early ones like mine had been built by cutting down a second-hand Mini.
Q: Your Ogle Mini: how many miles has it done?
A: How many miles has which bit done?
Q: What d'you mean which bit?
A: Well the Speedo has done 3000 miles since overhaul; the tyres have done about 5,000, the engine about 10,000 and as for the rest I have no idea.
Q: What does the speedo say?
A: 3,000 miles: I just said so.
Q: Is that genuine? Is that the mileage then?
A: Yes it is the mileage the speedo has done since it was rebuilt.
Q: What about the rest of the car?
A: I told you what I know and as the basis is a 1962 Mini that was scrapped to make the Ogle I think you should concentrate on what I am selling, not the mileage. You won't find any Ogle (or any other 17-year-old car) where the mileage means much.
Q: So you refuse to tell me the mileage!
A: Put it that way if you like. Good-bye.

Sue VÍtements
16th Sep 2016, 14:11
Ogle??

Back in 1980 when I lived in London, there was often a very sleek sports car parked outside one of the mews. I remember (i) that the A pillars were so far raked that it was able to use the windscreen as a head up display and (ii) that the roof was made of glass, but to protect the occupants from the vicious English Summer, there were parallel stripes painted on the glass about an eight of an inch wide with the gap between the stripes being the same. It was badged as an Ogle.

There was no internet then, but when there was I tried to look it up, but to no avail, so my question ... is that the same company?

Geordie_Expat
16th Sep 2016, 14:18
Ogle did an Aston Martin conversion if memory serves and very futuristic it was too. I seem to remember the back seat was like a corner-unit sofa.

Metro man
16th Sep 2016, 14:21
With the internet its not difficult to find out what something is worth, a look at completed listings shows what an item sold for not just the asking price.

As usual, supply and demand come into play. There will always be chancers who will try it on, and possibly get lucky with a low offer if someone is desperate to sell. I might make a low offer for something if I'm not too bothered whether I get it or not, its up to the seller to decide if he wants to accept.

Mark ups vary from reasonable to ridiculous depending on what sellers think they can get away with, luxury goods have margins of several hundred percent which may be necessary to pay top end of town rentals and snooty sales staff.

Watching a few episodes of Pawn Stars can be quite educational as many sellers have inflated ideas of what they're selling is worth. The buyer has to ensure his costs are covered and a reasonable profit made.

Ultimately an item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Sue VÍtements
16th Sep 2016, 14:28
GE - yes I got caught up in a search and it looks like that was the one

Perhaps the most important concept car by 'Ogle Design' was the 1972 Aston Martin DBS V8 'Ogle'. This unusual and eccentric Aston Martin was first shown at the Montreal Motor Show in January 1972, with the cost of the car being met by a tobacco company in order to boost sale results and known as the 'Sotheby Special'. The car was designed and built in 1971 under the guidance of Tom Karen.
Based on an Aston Martin DBS V8 chassis and engine unit, the bodywork was made of glassfibre and above the waistline it was totally formed from glass supported by a strong tubular metal frame. The whole rear panel was made of a single sheet of brushed stainless steel with 22 holes cut into it for the rear lamps and braking lights. The harder the driver braked, the more lights were illuminated!
Also the reduction of weight gained through the lighter body made the Ogle significantly quicker then a standard DBS V8.
At the same Geneva Motor show were the famous Giugiaro-designed Maserati Boomerang was unveiled in 1972, Ogle displayed the Aston Martin once more. At that time Italdesign founder G. Giugiaro came over to the 'Ogle' stand in order to congratulate Tom Karen for his creative design of the car, pointing out various new and innovative details such as the special sideways position of the single rear seat and a complete glass roof.
This is one of only two hand-made Aston Martin 'Ogle' models, each selling for £28,750 at the time, or the equivalent of three regular Aston Martin DBS V8 coupes.

Funnily enough I don't remember the back seat, just the huge glass roof - a not uncommon feature now, but unique in 1979

Geordie_Expat
16th Sep 2016, 15:12
I also remember about the brake lights.


b9TBTfBOpk8

Sue VÍtements
16th Sep 2016, 16:26
That'll be the one, especially after looking at the YouTube of the one they must have found in a farmer's field after 40 years. How does a car THAT expensive get in such a condition?

Funny though that I can't remember the back lights, nor the sideways interior, but can remember a HUD - that's not to be seen in the video and in fact about the only thing I got right (apart from the sleek shape) was the paint stripes on the glass roof ... except I thought they ran fore and aft, not side to side :ugh:

Memory is a strange thing.

Incidentally, I would have though that sitting sideways would NOT be a good position for a collision - well maybe for a tbone, but it'd be like a contrecoup head injury for a 'normal' collision

G-CPTN
16th Sep 2016, 17:35
Compulsory wearing of (front) seatbelts was not introduced until 1983 (for a trial period of three years) and made permanent in 1986.
Wearing a seatbelt in rear seats was not compulsory until 1991 (children from 1989).

Seatbelts History (http://www.rospa.com/campaigns-fundraising/success/seatbelts/).

ShyTorque
16th Sep 2016, 18:03
If you want £1200 start off by asking £1500, simple.
UniFoxOs

Sounds like a great idea.

Can I have £1500, please?

Vitesse
16th Sep 2016, 18:16
Selling my tidy '05 A4 I'd priced it to sell, couple of hundred below autotrader's suggestion.

At 100k plus it didn't have recent service history (did it myself) but the first chap who viewed wanted another 300 pounds off. I declined and we parted on good terms although my daughter couldn't understand why I'd not done the deal.

A few seconds later there was a knock at the door. Chap's wife particularly liked the colour and we shook hands.

Allan Lupton
16th Sep 2016, 18:17
Yes Ogle did a few strange cars at times. The Aston Martin was a one-off for a tobacco company, but they exhibited it at a show and a lady turned up and said she'd have one. They said they were not making any more, but she said they'd made one so they could make another for her - how much? Thinking that a stupidly high figure would put her off they said £30,000 (to give you the scale of it, a Maserati Bora would have cost from £9,826) and she said o.k. so they had to build one more.
My Ogle Mini was a bit more working class and looked like this:
http://www.carstyling.ru/Static/SIMG/420_0_I_MC_jpg_W/resources/studios/1962-Ogle-Mini-SX1000-Coupe-01.jpg?3F47CBA5ADA692EFCB156EAAF9045F98

The Nip
16th Sep 2016, 18:35
Although I have not done much buying and selling via papers or the internet, I have recently being buying property.

My adage has always been that something is only worth what someone will pay for it.

It does get on my nerves when people boast of their house value. Maybe it will give them the figure they expect or not. But inevitably it is up to the buyer to decide.

ShyTorque
16th Sep 2016, 19:16
Yes Ogle did a few strange cars at times. The Aston Martin was a one-off for a tobacco company, but they exhibited it at a show and a lady turned up and said she'd have one. They said they were not making any more, but she said they'd made one so they could make another for her - how much? Thinking that a stupidly high figure would put her off they said £30,000 (to give you the scale of it, a Maserati Bora would have cost from £9,826) and she said o.k. so they had to build one more.
My Ogle Mini was a bit more working class and looked like this:
http://www.carstyling.ru/Static/SIMG/420_0_I_MC_jpg_W/resources/studios/1962-Ogle-Mini-SX1000-Coupe-01.jpg?3F47CBA5ADA692EFCB156EAAF9045F98
To my eye, the Ogle Mini was one of the world's ugliest car because it looked like a sad, partly melted Austin Allegro.

Sorry!

G-CPTN
16th Sep 2016, 19:23
Then there was the Mini Marcos:- 1nUQHte_xzA

Metro man
17th Sep 2016, 00:37
Anyone who's watched Wheeler Dealers will have seen the amounts Mike Brewer manages to get off the asking price of a car he's buying. Even if he considers the advertised price to be quite fair he will still have a go and quite often get a sizeable reduction.

Having a mechanic to sort out the faults and going after cars with issues gives him an advantage as the seller is usually happy to get rid of it.

The last segment of the show, when he sells the car on, shows that many buyers know what to look for and how much to pay, particularly with the more specialist cars.

Effluent Man
17th Sep 2016, 03:30
Take that show with a shovelful of salt. I think that some of the "buyers" are production crew. What gave the game away to me was the one where they did a Suzuki Jeep. Did the whole caboodle then went for an MOT and found it was rotten as a pear.

You couldn't work on a car like he did without spotting that it was majorly rotted out before the tester shoved his screwdriver through the hull as if it was a Christmas cracker hat.

Notice too that their profit does not take account of the labour, which would be massive. I bought
A '58 Magnette ZB with a rotted out floor. My mate is a brilliant welder and replaced it all for £500, probably half what it would have cost commercially.

Sue VÍtements
17th Sep 2016, 03:45
It's television and therefore all lies :=


. . . you don't actually BELIEVE that stuff do you?

DirtyProp
17th Sep 2016, 12:16
Then there was the Mini Marcos:-

Dear God...
I finally found something more cramped than a C152!

ShyTorque
17th Sep 2016, 23:06
Although I do watch Wheeler Dealers, I wouldn't buy a car from them. Unless it was heavily discounted to take into account the half-baked repair jobs they show.

Hopefully it's all down to the editing but they often show new components being bolted back onto filthy, rusty "underpinnings".

No thanks, I do a more thorough job myself.

What's more, I feel so sorry for poor old Edd China. All that hard work and he's never been paid a a penny in his life (yeh, right)!

Private jet
19th Sep 2016, 15:00
I've recently been having a clearout and have sold several items on Gumtree. I stipulated in the ad's that it was strictly a set price, no offers. I think the key is having a realistic asking price & sticking with it.
Greed on the part of both buyers and sellers results in that tiresome "verbal dance" of haggling, usually meeting in the middle at the realistic price anyway. I was told that "people don't want a deal these days, they want a steal". A sign of the times I guess. They will try it on but stand firm on your asking price. If they walk away then your price was either too optimistic or they didn't want the item enough.

pulse1
19th Sep 2016, 16:08
Ah! The Mini Marcos - a hard top with wheels!

I have been generally successful selling a few old cars on Gumtree. The last one I sold was a Renault Vel Satis which drove very nicely but was slightly damaged after being back ended. Nobody wanted it for the market price so it looked like it was destined for the scrap yard for a mere £60. I put it on Gumtree for £100 and a Polish man agreed to buy it unseen. He wasn't interested in any faults and told me that it would be on the back of a lorry and headed for Poland the next day. All he wanted was the engine.

When he came to pay he tried to give me £10 less than we had agreed and claimed that was all the money he had brought. I was extremely annoyed and said I would rather lose the sale than give into that sort of chicanery. He managed to "borrow" the extra from his mate.

Effluent Man
19th Sep 2016, 19:16
I had an identical experience with an Asian gentleman from Wisbech. We agreed a price for a very nice BMW 3 series that I had taken in p/ex. When I got there he assumed that I had travelled a long way and wouldn't want to take it home. What he didn't know was that I had worked it in with picking up another car and when I jumped in and said "don't have it then" he quickly came up with the readies.

Expatrick
19th Sep 2016, 20:06
Ref posts 36 & 37, relevance please of "Polish" & "Asian"?

Sue VÍtements
19th Sep 2016, 20:46
Probably just factual reporting :rolleyes:

Nervous SLF
19th Sep 2016, 20:49
Polish perhaps because the chap who bought it was taking the vehicle back to Poland so it adds a bit to the story?
Asian perhaps because it is well know that Asian people love indeed some appear to live to haggle?
I for one cannot sence any attempt to be racist IF and I mean IF Expatrick was wondering that.

Effluent Man
19th Sep 2016, 21:08
Yes I was referring to the Asian predilection for a haggle. We seem to assume that once a price is agreed the deal is done at that price. This gentleman appeared to think that it was a starting point for further negotiation. He was entitled to do that, equally I was entitled to drive off. To be fair,his brother, whose kebab shop he worked in was a nice chap and told him to just pay the money.

longer ron
20th Sep 2016, 05:23
Many years ago I was selling my Jago Jeep,I was only asking 600 squid as it was not pristine and only had a 1300cc x-flow donk.
I advertised it in what I thought was a localish motor sales mag which was published on thursdays.
Anyway fast forward to 0600 thur morning - phone rings (me thinks wtf its only 0600 :confused:) but just said 'hello' - it is a dodgy sounding guy from London asking about my Jeep - because I usually got up at 0630 anyway I quickly decided to see if I could turn the tables :),saying to him 'kind of early aint it ?'.
I lived/worked in sussex/surrey and explained to the guy that I was at work all day and that the jeep was always garaged when not in use.
So he says ''Just leave it outside and I will look at it and if I like it I will stuff a deposit up the tailpipe'' - it was obviously some sort of scam LOL.
Anyway I kept him talking for ages and it eventually dawned on the geezer that I was not about to give him any info - so he says ''Don't you want to sell it ?'' to which I just said 'Not to you - No'
At this stage he starts swearing at me (result :)),him threatening ''You will be getting more calls'' - I just said 'I doubt it' as I pulled out the phone plug :)
I plugged the phone back in after work on friday and sold it to a local guy the next day !
Yes you meet all sorts when selling a car.

Stanwell
20th Sep 2016, 07:27
"... you meet all sorts .." Oh yes.
To be clear, there are many different flavours of Asians.
It's not so much race - it's cultural proclivities that come into play with regard to 'haggling' .. or not.

I remember once, in Medan, Sumatra trying to negotiate a fair price on a bunch of bananas.
I didn't seem to be getting anywhere - up to the point where the street vendor produced a large-calibre revolver, shoved it in my face and said .. F*ck Off !
I did - promptly.
.

Loose rivets
20th Sep 2016, 13:08
Awwwwwwwwww, Sue. If only I'd known it was you! And you looked so pretty in your wheelchair. I'm so touched, I've lowered the price especially for you.

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/584499-tyre-kickers-why-don-t-they-listen.html#post9509733