Red Arrow

[Spitoon]

I've always said the Red Arrows are an inspiration to me.

From the BBC. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/scotland/newsid_2086000/2086434.stm)

;)

[RotaDish]

Names...we need Names. Or at least some strong clues!!

Glad they/he's OK, probably a bit P'd off though.

Rota

[STANDTO]

Bl**dy hell, they are coming to the Isle of Man on Saturday. Better have sorted their act out by then - tch! Amateurs!

By the way, anyone coming over for the Jurby air show? If so, please email me with a free vip pass as I am a cheapskate and it will save me going under the wire!


[email protected]

[AllTrimDoubt]

More news on the Reds website. Oh well...!

[spancan]

Aircraft was still there in inverness this morning. I was told that it was Red 1.
It had gone by this afternoon.

[BEagle]

I'm not quite sure what this thread is supposed to be getting at. Yes, the Arrows get a fair bit of banter from many, but no-one should doubt their flying skills.

If there was a problem with braking - as the news item suggests, then the pilot obviously took the appropriate action, it would seem.

I remember landing Hawk XX283 at Dunsfold on 6 Jan 81. Right place, right speed, right technique as the QFI in the back confirmed. But the runway was damp and when I tried to brake the little $od maxaretted for thousands of feet - only turning the anti-skid off and braking very carefully stopped the beast. Now, if there'd been 8 others on the runway ahead.......

[Fast Erect]

Good reply.
I'm getting a little racked off with these instant expert types.
Unless you know what you are talking about(which most of the teenagers/journos/taxi drivers/morons on this site dont) button up.
Sweet dreams.
FE:(

[fobotcso]

And an equally good reply, FE.

[Zoom]

Not being Hawk-experienced, I didn't realise that the Hawk had Maxarets. As installed in the Gnat and Hunter, with a unit on each mainwheel, the system's weakness was that if just one mainwheel hit a puddle and locked up, the braking action on that wheel would cease but would keep working on the other. If the pilot was not totally alert the aircraft would then set off sideways onto the grass. Is this the case with the Hawk? :eek:

[BOAC]

I'll never forget the much-respected (and sadly late) Frank Hoare as Red 1 rushing towards my nose cone with brake failure on one wheel as he came 'through the middle' of the formation at the end of the landings - I was trying to find reverse with some agitation, but failed.

Another nice Gnat trick (yes, I am THAT old) was to knock off one of the low-slung maxarets on ONE wheel only by hitting an arrestor cable grommet, which gave zero brakes one side and full on the other.

[PlasticCabDriver]

Sorry for having to ask (fling-wing filth), but what's a Maxaret?

[Oh I See]

An early ABS, with the afformentioned problems.

[BEagle]

Strictly speaking, 'Maxaret' was a Dunlop trade name. But it has become a generic term to refer to any aeroplane anti-skid system. Maxarets were also fitted to the Jensen FF motor car.

A Gnat engineer trick was to fit Hunter maxaret units! Unfortunately the Gnat stub axle is on the inboard side of the wheel, whereas on the Hunter it's on the outboard. So if the wrong type is fitted when the Maxaret operates, the brake pressure remains applied......BANG, thumpathumpathumpa....

[pontius's pa]

And then, of course, there was the requirement to allow the wheels to rotate for four seconds after touchdown to allow the little darlings to "spin up" before applying the brakes.

Ah happy days.

To this day, "feet off the brakes" is the one I never forget (yet!!

I must confess that the ABS on my car I view with some suspicion and mistrust. Yes I know it works but it just doesn't feel right.

[BEagle]

Even taxying the Gnat was a challenge. Tiny wheel track and that delay between operating the brakes and something actually happening - 'response valves' or somesuch, if I recall correctly, being the culprits.

But once airborne, STUPRECC and CUBSTUN apart, what a little gem!!

[fobotcso]

... and what about the crosswind landing and trying to get that stick over far enough when wearing a Michelin Man immersion suit and braking at the same time? (edit for crosswing..!)

[BEagle]

Ah yes - in those days at Y Fali we had to wear the awful acrilan pile buny suit, internal g-suit and heavy goon suit for virtually the whole year. Trying to apply full right aileron on a cross-wind take-off required you to push on the left hand side of the control column as you couldn't get full right in the normal manner because of the thickness of the goon suit clad thigh!

On my second solo, the red clangers went off half-way round a loop and I noted an 'OXY' caption. But all seemed OK, so I tried to get the FRCs out of my goon suit to confirm that there wasn't something I'd forgotten - that took about 2 minutes as there was about 1/2" clearance between the knee pad and fire extinguisher button.....

But we loved it really!

[BOAC]

Just a heavy breather, BEagle?:p

[STANDTO]

STOP PRESS -----------REDS ADMONISHED ---------------

Top effort at Jurby today! Weather was appalling so low ceiling display. However, well worth waiting for as usual. 4500 cars through the gates and around 15000 visitors. Not bad for an island with 76000 population. Excellent efforts from a solo hawk, RN Lynx, BBMF and some privately owned Kit.

Bigger and better next year. Thanks

[BEagle]

No - Perhaps the LOX converter was faulty and my flying was so smooth that LOX stratification had been the cause....?

Actually they never found out what caused it! Virtually everyone on my course had some minor emergency in the Gnat at some time or other - and not just running low on fuel!

[Mmmmnice]

Stifles yawn after fascinating spell of "Braking through the Ages" - sorry chaps, but if you're travelling forward when you hit terra firma you must be flying the wrong kind of flying machine!

Spitoon - only a slim chance, but are you the same evil fiend who would force me to play tanx in the wee small hours somewhere in Salop in the early 80s? has your little boy gone into the same line of work? - if so, drop me an email with equally vague confirmatory data and I will ignore you for evermore bahhhhhhhhhhhh :D

[BEagle]

Mmmmnice - from your comments I deduce that you sit in one of those awful clattering, vibrating things so beloved of the ditch-dwelling dung eaters?

[teeteringhead]

Mmmnice.

Don't think it can be the same spitoon for reasons various. The one you're thinking of is now "bucket & spading" in a 75, and his (not so little) son & heir is (methinks) flying the BDB in Hampshire. (well, proabably not in Hampshire most of the time ..........)

[BEagle]

Back to the thread - thanks, Reds, for the nice flypast you gave me as I was walking back to my car on Friday afternoon! Perfectly timed as always - it was intentional, wasn't it?

No doubt you'll be impressing the punters at Silverstone this afternoon? Have a good one!

[fobotcso]

Mmmmnice may not be accustomed to those SE run-ons where braking (if you have them) is a wise move to stop you before the tree line.

[Smokie]

I can confirm with certainty that the Hawk didn't have maxerets.
It had a rather neat exciter unit in the axle of the main gear.

It was all rather a long time ago now when we first changed over from the Gnat to the Hawk at Kemble, so the details are a bit hazy.:) :) :) Happy Days :) :) :)

[Babi Melayu]

Hi can I message you or mail you please? Thanks.

[BEagle]

Smokie - yes, you're right. I used the term 'maxaretting' to describe that horrid sensation of the anti-skid cutting in and stopping any braking action whatsoever. 'Anti-skid' seemed hyper-sensitive in the Hawk, but 'Maxarets' never seemed to be so much of a problem in the Hunter or Gnat.