Austrian vs Eurowings

[herrmxx]

Hi all,


I have a tough decision to take:
I am a greenhorn coming from Lufthansa integrated MPL Training fighting to get my first Job in a Cockpit. Since there are no Jobs to be expected at LH in the next 1-2 years we are currently being offered FO seats at Austrian Airlines' Dash 8 as well as Eurowings Europe A320. Both Jobs are limited to 2 years (with option to extend) and will include a respective Type Rating and Line Training in beforehand . Both will be based in Vienna.
What you need to know about me is that I will need to shuttle to Hamburg, Germany due to personal reasons, which would not change too quickly.

Ive identified the following +0- for the two Options:


AUA
+ Decent respectable and stable Airline
+ Dash 8 appears to me as an interesting A/C (system wise)
+ nice short legs and interessting destinations
+ better pay than EW but still mediocre in the long run


0 mostly chains with layovers


- Dash 8 might be a deadend in regard to further career, no upgrades within the first 5 years to be expected
- no possibility to change to an airline based in HAm with DAsHs
- Tough Dutyplans, minimum off-days, high dutytime, low flighthours
- Only Turbine Time, no Jet Time


EW Europe (not Eurowings Germany)
+ Fast Track to A320 Type Rating
+ New company, possible further career opportunities,
+ would be one of the very first pilots starting - maybe fast track to CPT in terms of seniority (however there is no official seniority system)
+ very low chance for opportunity to be based in HAM in the next years


0 no layovers

- very, very bad pay for an A320 FO (about 2000€ net + 50€ per extra sectors, however only after 280 sectors being flown in one year)
- 280 sectors per year as up to now will not be reached.
- new AOC, unstable Ops
- support of pilot-outsourcing from expensive german contracts (Lufthansa strategy)
- undermining of our german union
- Very, very bad pay!
- up to now very low flight time per month (~30h) due to run up of operations, expected to normalize in the next months - many stby days
- minimum off days to be expected
- would prefer a Turboprop as a 1st type

Main question is: Does the A320 TR overweigh the negative points enough, or is it better to aim for the Dash and risk being stuck there.
Appreciate your bias.




herrmx

[papazulu]

Main question is: Does the A320 TR overweigh the negative points enough, or is it better to aim for the Dash and risk being stuck there.

In short: it does. No-brainer IMHO.

PZ:cool:

[safelife]

Eurowings Europe is offering HAM as a base.
That will probably change your assessment.

[herrmxx]

@safelife: unfortunately not, this is a base of Eurowings Deutschland - they have different (much better) contracts...


@PZ
why is it a nowbrainer for you? Taking into account my considerations, it's not...

[Dufo]

So you don't like FBW, you don't like A320 because of too much automation, pay is crap.. and your real-life experience is zero at this moment.
Choose the A320 I am sure it will be a pleasure to take a selfie or two with you in the cockpit.

[172_driver]

As long as people sign up for 2000 Euro/month, no union recognition, fast-track to command things will never change.

[ExDubai]

As long as people sign up for 2000 Euro/month, no union recognition, fast-track to command things will never change.
Problem is, he has to pay back the training cost....

[737mgm]

First of all I do not work for Austrian or Eurowings Europe but I have heard a lot of people complain about the payment at Eurowings Europe before and I find it quite annoying that people do not take the time to look at the facts.
The payment at Eurowings Europe is not very bad, in fact it is simply average for what you get in Europe at this time.

Check out the facts here and go beyond looking at it for two seconds only:

https://www.career.aero/eurowings/de/jobseeker/info

At Eurowings Europe you will be paid €44.050 a year minimum even if you do not fly one single day (30.000 basic plus guaranteed 281 sectors whether flown or not for €14.050). In addition, you get €1,40 per diem for each hour that you are away from your base.

What payment is actually realistic? Let's calculate very conservative and say you only work 15 days a month and let's say you will fly on average 2,5 sectors (again very conservative as you will fly 4 sectors a lot of the time).
So let's say you work 15 days in 11 months and fly 2,5 sectors. That equals 412 sectors.
Flying 412 sectors you would make €50.600 a year (per diem excluded). An Austrian FO makes €53.100 in his first year. As I said already you will probably fly more than 412 sectors. Either way the payment at both airlines is about the same.
After five years you would make about €67.000 for flying 15 days a month 2.5 sectors on average.

What is negative about Eurowings Europe in my opinon is that there is no pay increase for 5 years, you only have 7 days off guaranteed and you cannot request anything. The payment however isn't different from most other airlines offering you a contract at this time.

If I were you I would fly the A320 at Eurwowings Europe. It will give you more opportunities to change jobs if you decide to do so later on in life.

[ExDubai]

The decision is a no brainer. Ask yourself which type rating will give you more flexibility and options in the near future.

[EDDT]

definitely go to Eurowings. As both contracs are short time only, but better type rating. You won't ever get into KTV anyways.

@the number guy , yeah The FO money is not so low low, just around half of what a LH FO makes :o

[Tu.114]

This is a decision You have to take on Your own in the end.

Let me add a few points though for Your consideration.

- Both contracts are limited to 2 years at the moment. OS (definitely) but presumably also EW are interested in retaining as many of You as practicable afterwards, but 2 years is a long time with regards to the current situation of LH and associated companies.

- You are a NFF and obviously and understandably interested in joining LH. This may or may not become possible again and is subject to what VC and the GL come up with in their (currently halted as far as I know) negotiations.

- The moral objections against joining Eurowings are shared by many, not only in LH, but also in other companies.

Those points made, let me play advocate of the devil and speak in favour of the DH8 with Austrian.

The Dash is an aircraft of a category You will likely never see again in Your career. It comes with operational peculiarities that are well worth seeing and able to add a bit to Your flying experience. A network ranging from large airports like FRA to small mountain airfields like Lugano, in an aircraft limited to FL250 and offering rather little assistence to its crews compared to an Airbus brings some challenges that are well worth seeing for some time in a career. In fact, the rather many NFF we have on this fleet at the moment seem to like both the aircraft and the fleet quite a lot.

With regards to the career cul-de-sac that the DH8 is apparently considered by several around here: this is in fact not the case at Austrian; neither is it the case, should it become possible for You to join LH afterwards. Several DH8 F/Os, among them some NFFs with a bit less than 2 years of service on the DH8, are at the moment sitting in the ERJ 190-200 type rating class. Applications for other fleets are honoured only depending on seniority, not depending on the type previously flown, and the success rate of those type ratings gives no reason at all to change this. Most pilots who have flown both a jet and a turboprop will agree that the (any!) jet they are trained on is much easier to fly and operate than the turboprop, and there is no reason to believe that anyone who has mastered the DH8 will have problems mastering any jet.

[bradandwhitney]

Forget about the aircraft type...
One option is a "project" with no collective agreement, no seniority and boring 4 sector days.
The other option is an airline with a collective agreement, seniority and interesting flying.
If you want to commute to HAM you will spend more time there flying for AUA.
If EW opens up a base there (and KTV is still closed) you can always make the jump in 2 years...

[herrmxx]

Dear all,
thank you very much for your input - I cannot emphasize enough how I appreciate your feedback.

I know that EW resambles a pact with the devil. I would only do that in order to open perspective to one day come back to Hamburg - If you ask me, I dont expect LH to open up for new entries in a reasonable time.

For me the experience at the interview days at Austrian were highly positive. I liked the atmosphere, and indeed most of the fellow NFFs that found a place there are happy, though of course there is this prevailing rivalry between TP and Jet pilots (which I really don't understand) that makes you feel 2nd class as a Dash Pilot.

I would immediatly sign at AUA if there wouldn't be the unspeakable offer from EW to jump the queue getting a A320 TR and indicating possibilities of opening up oppertunities to fly from Hamburg one day (I know this might never happen within EW Europe at least, but maybe there will be some kind of merger between EW Germany/ germanwings and Eurowings Europe that may open some doors.

[herrmxx]

@TU.114

Thanks for your words. We are definitly on the same page. However, I have talked a lot with several AUA functionaries about the future on the DASH. True, currently some of the NFF flying the DASH approaching the end of their second year were offered an extension of the contract with an ERJ TR. However, this might not be the case in 2,5 years any more, since AUA is now introducing their own integral courses for ERJ and pushing ready entries as well. So, I have been told by certain people at AUA who know their onion, that especially the ones starting now, might not get the next A/C within the next 5 years (all far away, you don't have to tell me)

Again, I'm not one of those "I need a jet under my butt to look awesome" types. I prefer TP, especially in the beginning. I will be hanging around in a server room long enough, for sure - it's just about the possibility to chose my base (haha)

[Kim Jong Il]

Aircraftwise: Eurowings
Anything else: Austrian

I think the chances to join LH are slim to non existent anyway. AUA is the better long term option in my opinion. Plus: skiing on your days off!!!

[Clandestino]

Go for Airbus.

As I have spent 5000ish hrs in condition levers equipped aeroplanes and escaped turboprop trap merely on insane amount of good luck... twice, I don't deny I'm severely biased.

It's not just Dash8, any turboprop time is worth very little when one needs to change company while the times are good. When the times are average and below, it is worthless. Oh, sure, it was great fun flying ATR down 10deg descent path or making greasers in Q400 (ok, ok, 1 in 50) but checking for entry requirements everywhere and finding them all just asking for jet time while my company was culling its pilots herd made nasty offset for the fun I had. Overall, I found turboprops more difficult to fly and operate than jets but not many companies or jet jockeys would admit that.

Regarding the FBW and automatics on 320, I had heard a lot of stories and expected it to be some kind of hard-to-tame technical monstrosity so I was quite disappointed to find it quite simple, intuitive, well thought out and flying nicely even with FBW shot up. Heck, except for being noisier, with cramped cockpit (bigger than DHC-8's though), rudimentary ergonomic and a bit more difficult to slow down, 738 is IMHO not much different from A320. Sidestick? Two minutes to learn, two to unlearn. Never met anyone who had problems converting to Airbus controls or going back to classic, even my classmate who started flying 320 at 200TT, flew nothing else and then at 6K went to Q400 LHS had no problems at all although he was not very enthusiastic about exchanging ECAM for Caution and warning panel.

Basically I'm saying times are wobbly and suggesting to go for the more valuable type rather than a promise of career which may materialize or not.

[Iver]

I would take the Airbus. What other airline options are typically offered to Greenhorns? What about SWISS - is that an option for others? Wouldn't mind hanging out in the new C-Series for a few years. Of course not a marketable type like the Airbus...

[Tu.114]

Of course, talking about the future and what it may bring holds some uncertainty. However, also with some stagnation in thw company, you would not be stuck on the DH8 forever. The collective agreement has a paragraph requiring the company to offer half of any number of open A320 and ERJ F/O positions to the group of DH8 F/Os. Only the other half and, in case of not enough applications, the positions not taken by the DH8 crews, are allowed to be filled by external new hires. While the exact time that will be spent on the DH8 will of course be subject to various factors, this rule is definitely a large door leading to a jet rating.

Also, none of the NFFs that are trained for the ERJ at the moment have signed for any extension of their 2 years period until today. They are all waiting for what the negotiations between LH, OS and VC will result in.

[Guttn]

Here's my take, for what it's worth...
Given your present logbook (assuming as you say you are a greenhorn and MPL, your hours and operational background at the moment are mostly in your future and not in your past), I would go for the Dash instead of the Airbus. Let me elaborate....
First of all, your personal reasons for commuting will always go ahead of anything else. Is it possible for the same personal reasons (family I'm guessing) to relocate? How about in 2 years from now? Only you know the answer to these questions.
Anyhow, between the 2 airlines, as you are an up and coming airman, being in a situation where you actually can choose between 2 employers, always, I say again, ALWAYS, go for the stable, legacy carrier. Now, before everybody slams their touchscreen keyboards, consider the longterm career. Yes, the path to the left seat will take significantly more time. Yes, your longterm pay will be (probably) less than a rather quick upgrade with a new, smaller carrier. And yes, you will start on what is by many considered as an inferior type. However, all this falls behind a few things. First of all ask yourself, as a newbie, if a union could be a positive thing to be a part of? Could a seniority list be something that gives you foresight? How about payscales, retirement plans, roster stability, certain other benefits that have already been negotiated for you? And guess what.... Flying a turboprop, with shorter sectors (more departures and approaches) actually hones your flying skills (albeit the automation is well applied). The Q400 is also appreciated by an increasing number of airlines who now are hiring, so I wouldn't be worries about that. But how about the AUA fleet? A renewable 2 year contract with AUA might just place you on another type within a few years anyway.
But at the end of the day it's a personal choice. I have never flown for a lowcost carrier, never been on a contract or had to worry about the things I read about on pprune. Never had to worry. Crew on that for a little while. The "downside"? Still FO at 40.... On the otherhand, pay, roster stability, benefits (pension plan) and lifestyle easily outweigh flying the mediumhaul jets around the European circuit. BTW, since I fly the small Dashes, I'm completely biased regarding types ;)
Choose the one which you think will make you happy, and adjust everything else accordingly. But could you let us know your choice, and your reasons, once you have made it?

[McBruce]

Jet everytime. Regardless of what image you try and portrait it to be, it's the type that future proofs you as a pilot. After several years you won't care about the type, size or engines, just your life style and opportunities. A dash introduces another stepping stone in getting to that settled position.

[Tu.114]

One more addition.

If You are looking for Your value in the pilots market, i. e. if You intend to change companies, go to the sandbox (for information on how wise this choice would be, head on over to the corresponding section on here (http://www.pprune.org/middle-east-44/)) or prefer the expat life, the Airbus it is, no doubt about this.

However, if You are looking to stay in a solid company or group of the same, which is LH and its subsidiaries, come to OS. Consider the longevity of some of LHs ideas, look at LH Italia or Jade Cargo for example, and then think about how wise it is to be associated with Germanwings. At OS, You are at a legacy carrier (although there are internal problems galore), have the option to fly for 2 years, expect a reasonably quick jet rating, and after 2 years, You can still make Your choice between whatever may be on offer within the company.

[FlyingStone]

Take the A320 job. Since both contracts are limited two years, you'll be much desirable in the market with 1500hrs on A320 than with on Dash 8. Just look on any pilots jobs website and see how many companies are looking for TP pilots and how many doors does A320 rating with some hours open...

[RHS]

Having flown both, for the love of all things holy, take the Dash job.

Legacy carrier, flying interesting routes, on an aircraft that's enjoyable to fly. Or flying monotonous routes, in a boring aircraft, for hours on end, on a low cost roster, knowing you're undercutting every Lufthansa pilot while you do it.

The choice is simple.

Take the turbo prop time, enjoy it, and enjoy Vienna. In a few years time you can get jet at Austrian, look back fondly at the lessons you learnt on a TP, and then maybe after that start looking back home.

Flying the Airbus straight from school, versus flying a turbo prop first, there's really no contest on who will have the more rounded flying education and core handling skills.

[Clandestino]

Sure, I would love to fly decent rosters out of very livable Central European base for legacy carrier of the glorious past and bright future, that treats its employees so nicely that A340 flying chef clears close to 3000€ take-home and accepts pilots from as far afield as South Africa.

Problem is, I'm talking about Austrian of ten years ago. By the time I got rid of all the bonding and got myself ready to cross over, Austrian downsized and suddenly found my age and passport quite unattractive.

IMHO, Austrian today is just a part of Lufthansa Group which will go anywhere LG management pleases, even if it takes playing two group's Vienna based brands against each other. Good news is that OP remains good company boy whichever side he chooses.

[herrmxx]

Really, thank you all for your feedback - and its more obvious than ever, that there is no right or wrong decision... It's more or less 50:50 among the jet vs TP folks around this thread, as if I had expected something else.:confused:

No clue what I am going to do. I hate the thought flying for EW, but I also hate the thought of missing out a chance to fly back in Germany in 2 years or so, just because I have no A320 TR.

I keep you updated.

[lansen]

Hello Mr NFF :E !

To start off, I just have to give you my honest opinion. I understand why you guys are like you are. Not accepting flightdeck jobs, while others would kill for a position like yours. You were promised the KTV (Lufthansa Konzerntarifvertrag = Golden Ticket) and you basically got nothing of what you were promised. So of course, you are now trying to get as much as possible out of your current situation. On the other hand, it doesn't take much brains to figure out that LH will go down the drains, if they continue handing out those contracts. But I guess that's not what the union (VC) is telling you :8.

Anyway. It's like someone in this thread told before me. What company to go for is, regarding the rating, a no-brainer. Eurowings! Screw the payment. In 2-3 years you'll have enough hours to apply to any A319/20/21 operator in Europe/Middle-East. To continue this thought. With an A320 rating you will have all of Airbus basically opened to you. An A330/340 rating will just be a differential training and not a complete new rating.
On the other hand. If you chose the Dash, you will be stuck in Turbo-Prop-Land until AUA gives you the opportunity to move onto a Jet. :ugh:

[EAM]

Well, it is very unlikely that you will get a job in Germany in 2-3 years. In Eurowings these position will be taken by the GWI guys and even if, you would be the last in line. Other option GMI??? Not really if you don't wanna fly for EWE. So I would take into account that you won't get back to Germany very soon.
Anyway, Vienna is a great place to live.
If you get the chance to stay with OS longer than the 2 years, take that job. The Dash is the best a/c for you to learn to fly, the A320 is a very good rating to have, but you learn how to setup the FMS. OS is a network carrier, you will get the chance to fly jet sooner or later, EMB and maybe in a few years even long haul on a 767. OS is short of pilots, so there will be quite a lot of movement. Have a look at the lastest agreement.

So if you are planning a long term career, take the Dash, if you want to move on quickly, like the middle east, take the 320. Anyway, chances to come back to Germany are very low, so don't focus too much on that.

BTW. I have flown Dash-8 and A320 and I lived in Vienna, so know what I am talking about.

[hoox]

I would consider Austrian the better option. Serveral points why: firstly you will have a chance of career progression - especially with the collective labour agreement just signed last week. Dash FOs are now being trained on the Embraers even with possibilities to later join the longhaul fleet.
Also, since living in Hamburg is essential for you - dont forget about standby tickets. AFAIK Austrian have quite good ID agreements, so it shouldnt be any problem to get home for you. Eurowings on the other hand... i stand to be corrected but at least according to ppjn they dont have any.

Furthermore, with LH aquiring all off-hub routes from airberlin later this year, the chances of eurowings basing their own 320s in HAM in the near future dont really seem to be too high..

[hph304]

Afaik, EW has MyIDtravel. Dont know which airlines they have agreements with though, could imagine at least standby bookable on LH European network with EW, 4U and LH.

[Iver]

Nobody can predict what will happen in the future - especially in this volatile industry. To make this type of decision, one needs to understand and then prioritize/rank the decision criteria...

Location seems to be one of the top criteria. With EW, he has a decent chance of ultimately returning to Germany which evidently is very important to him. With OS, there is a possibility he may not get the chance to return and live in the Hamburg area if he does not get the call from LH in a few years to transfer over (uncertain timeframe). In that case, EW makes more sense if he has more of a likelihood of returning to Germany. Plus he gets a more marketable type rating with the Airbus.

That is how I would evaluate the decision - to each his/her own...

[herrmxx]

Thank you all. Everyone is stating reasonable points for a decision.


@ Iver: I think you just strike the point.

[semmern]

For the love of all that is good in this world - Austrian! IMO, this is such a no-brainer that I don't even understand why there is a dilemma. Legacy carrier vs undermining one's own profession. Go for the Dash!

[EAM]

I wouldn't give to much hope in german bases with Eurowings Europe. Their plan is to employ crews outside of Germany and avoid german labour rights.
I am always surprised when people consider facts for the future of a company that totally base on rumors and know one knows if it ever gonna happen.
At the moment Eurowings Europe has no base in Germany and no-one knows if they ever will have a base in Germany, as those positions are taken by Eurowings Deutschland and Germanwings. Some people mistake Eurowings Europe with the Eurowings platform.
So you might be gambling on a game that is already lost.

[FerrisBueller]

For the love of all that is good in this world - Austrian! IMO, this is such a no-brainer that I don't even understand why there is a dilemma. Legacy carrier vs undermining one's own profession. Go for the Dash!
Couldn't agree more semmern! Austrian too good to turn down long term. Plus TP experience is underrated!

[Alpine Flyer]

The (new and old) Austrian CLA gives Dash 8 pilots a 50% share of all new jet positions after five years on the Dash. While the Dash is not glamorous and many airlines favour jet experience, you'll learn a lot of hand flying and technique on the Dash that an Airbus won't teach you. Those pilots moving up from the Dash 8 now tell that they initially considered their Dash posting disappointing (with their flying school peers going straight to the Airbus) but now wouldn't trade their Dash experiences. Once you're on an Airbus you won't get to places like Lugano or Bolzano at all and even Innsbruck is not that common....

As everything, this is a snapshot it is hard to forecast, especially about the future ;)

P.S.: Don't fret about flying a "lame" turboprop. The Q400 is quite hot and a jet departing after one will need some time to catch up.

[INNflight]

I know you're a newbie, but PLEASE don't make the newbie mistake of being blinded by the jet bling bling.

No matter what aircraft type - go legacy carrier! Go to Austrian! It doesn't matter what aircraft you fly, they have Dashs, Embraers, Boeings, Airbuses... you'll get a jet eventually, and as people said, they are ridiculously short of pilots. You'll get a contract extension if you want.

Look at it long term. Most low cost pilots want to move to a major eventually (Easy / Ryanair to British, Vueling to Iberia, Transavia to KLM, etc...) - if you can START at a flag carrier, do so.

Better stability, better union protection, better influence on rostering, better pay, better everything. You'll have plenty of layovers to chain your working days together, which also makes commuting to HAM easier.

Oh and just food for thought:
We've had a few NFFs in our company (flag carrier but not Austrian) for a few years. They all thought of it as a short-term solution and after a few years they'd go home, find another job.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it probably won't happen. Most of them are still here or somewhere else, but still not home. What other options do you have in Germany that are better than an Austrian flag carrier contract?

- Lufthansa? not gonna happen
- Condor? not gonna happen
- Aeorlogic? not really better...

What else?



--
Bottom line: Pilot jobs are not always where your home is. Prioritise... you wanna be home or you want a good job? Most of the people I know commute. By car, train and plane. Do the same if you can't or don't want to permanently relocate. Vienna is a super-gorgeous city with great people, cheap prices and great culture. Consider it.
If you don't want to live there, commute. Flights are plenty and it's a one-hour leg home.

If you wanna live and work home... go apply at Sylt Air. ;)

[INNflight]

Oh, and as you mentioned it... I also know one or two NFFs who are at Austrian. One on the 320, one on the Dash. They both enjoy it very much.

I know you wanted LH. Eurowings exists to undermine your fellow pilots and their conditions at the other Lufthansa Group airlines. They are bad for the industry and everyone's terms and conditions. Don't be a part of that. Go to OS.

[semmern]

For what it's worth, I know a guy who started on the Dash in Austrian, then moved via the Fokker and A320 to the 777 where he is now. So you are by no means locked to one type for the rest of your career.

[ExDubai]

The question is what happens after the 2 years? With an A320 type rating and some hours it's easier to find a job then with the Dash rating.

[INNflight]

The question is what happens after the 2 years? With an A320 type rating and some hours it's easier to find a job then with the Dash rating.

That's not a question ANYONE can answer. So many pilots have tried to be well-prepared for "in xy years". You just can't do it.

This is not an aircraft decision, this is an employer decision. Do you want to choose your employer on the basis that you MAYBE have better job chances with another potential employer when you leave, or do you want to choose the BETTER employer of the two that you KNOW you could work for NOW?

In German there's a saying:
"Lieber den Spatzen in der Hand als die Taube auf dem Dach." - I think mr. NFF will understand.

Nobody knows whether you're even able to get another job in two years time, or where, or with which qualifications. Just not possible. FYI, even if you do get an A320 rating... there'll be hundreds of other pilots with the same one, and with way more hours on type than you.


Bottom line again... choose your employer, not your aircraft type. Why do you think all the fancy pilots with A380 / B777 / A350 ratings want to come back to Europe from the sand pit and Asia? I tell you why... because it doesn't matter WHAT you fly, it matters what terms and conditions and what stability you have while doing so!

I don't know your personal obligations in Hamburg, but be careful if you decide on Austrian and/or Vienna... you might just like it and want to stick around! :ok:

[Iver]

What's the latest thinking? Which way are you leaning - Bus or Q400? Don't leave us hanging!!!! :cool::}:eek:

[EDDT]

If he is smart , he still keeps waiting for new opportunities in the german market.
Especially at these times, where a lot is changing in the aviation market in Germany.
There is now an offer for cadets at airberlin with better conditions than Eurowings. And maybe he can work in Hamburg as well.
The golden contract that was promised to him years ago (50-60 hours a month, about 16 days off a month, 4-7k€ net as FO, pension from 55 years possible, etc.) is closed now, there is a slim chance it will open again. However, if he accepts one of those other offers, he opts out the pool for the old contract.

[Denti]

If he is NFF he probably got a mail from airberlin already. Apparently both Eurowings and airberlin compete currently for their respective cadets. Eurowings mailed all airberlin cadets on the waiting list a day before the restructuring news broke to offer them a job, full pay immediately, flying from may next year. The next day airberlin offered them a permanent contract on their much higher pay scale, and offered NFFs preferential entry as well.

[Arewerunning]

I wonder how the situation is progressing in EW Eu (Eurowings Europe): they keep emailing me if I would like to join as Fast Track Command.

I see they improved the conditions a little but, they are still way below market rate.

Any news and feedbacks?

[Iver]

Again, which choice did he/she select? Austrian or Eurowings?

Also, will Germanwings gradually be folded into Eurowings? What's the plan?

[REMAX11]

I can answer a little.

GWI is going to be folded to EW. Regarding the pilots, well the devil is in the details.

EW EU is another matter completely....

Nevertheless the conditions have been improved a little but, are still way below market rate. The big advantage is that you do not work for eastern crooks or control freaks brits. And is not the ME.

Pilots management is all ex Austrian and very good indeed. They do take care of you (beside the pay witch is outside their control and they do have the same conditions).