PDA

View Full Version : Tyre Debris on UK Roads


Wingswinger
7th Sep 2016, 21:31
Has anyone else noticed the inordinate number of shed tyres and bits of tyre debris on the motorways and main arterial roads of the UK in recent times? A juggernaut pulled over with one or more tyres in shreds is not an infrequent sight these days. Whole tyres or bits of tyre are strewn along the central barrier on the M-Ways. As I pass them it seems as though that many of the tyres have shed the tread almost whole. Frequently it can be seen that, where the tread is present, the tyre appears very bald. While some shed tyres are car-sized the overwhelming majority can only come off commercial vehicles.

it seems to me that a large number of drivers must be driving vehicles with sub-standard or defective tyres and so constitute a hazard to other road users.

How are they getting away with it?

Avitor
7th Sep 2016, 21:43
The inner tyre of the double wheels on the rear of a goods vehicle can unobserved go flat, it will eventually disintegrate, the heat and the extra weight on the outside wheel will also burst at some stage and there we have it..... Debris. HGV's travel extremely long distances on M/ways where stopping is not encouraged nor is it safe.

G-CPTN
7th Sep 2016, 21:44
Running a tyre for long distances at too low pressure will result in the tyre overheating and the carcass failing.

Many truck tyres are retreaded (where a new tread is bonded onto a carcass that has had the previous tread buffed off).
Some retreads are prone to throwing treads, but the usual cause is overheating through running at too low pressure which causes the bonding to melt.

sitigeltfel
7th Sep 2016, 21:49
Faulty or sub standard tyres, or maybe just poor and badly maintained roads surfaces causing the damage?

Coffin Dodger
7th Sep 2016, 23:32
Heavy loads on artics, many of which have single wheels. Sudden deflation from puncture or whatever and the wheel rims guillotine the tread. Also agree re re-treads.

Paracab
7th Sep 2016, 23:56
Tread depth is only required to be 1mm as well at the lower end of the legal limit too, which I find surprising. Can't be much more rubber underneath surely? Very recently rang the cops as an entire discarded tyre was in lane two of the A1 causing havoc. Beds cops responded very promptly with units going towards on an immediate.

angels
8th Sep 2016, 00:51
It's worse in Russia!

watch?v=S4dBOauaPOM

Krystal n chips
8th Sep 2016, 06:36
" How are they getting away with it" ?

That's a rather nave question really......lets start with the cuts to police funding and the now all to common reduction in the numbers of Traffic Officers / Patrols.....then there was the former VOSA, or rather the now rebranded DVSA....again, subject to financial cuts and hence far less of a presence than previously....

Still, the Public Sector was always "over manned" .....at least in the minds of many who berate it.

sitigeltfel
8th Sep 2016, 06:47
Tread depth is only required to be 1mm as well at the lower end of the legal limit too, which I find surprising.

1.6mm over 75% of the tread.

onetrack
8th Sep 2016, 07:02
There is often a substantial amount of sharp debris dropped on roads (bolts, screws, nails, pieces of metal, and 100 other varieties of metallic items, that have fallen from loads or fallen off vehicles, as components detach).

All of the previously-mentioned are lethal to tyres, and particularly heavy commercial tyres, which are generally heavily-loaded, which makes them more prone to serious damage by metallic foreign objects on the road surface.

Just as runways are swept and inspected for debris, so should major highways be swept and inspected in the same way.

I can't speak for the U.K., but the major urban highways in my neck of the woods, down here in the underworld, are swept by road crews on a reasonably regular basis to remove any debris on the road surface, that could cause vehicle damage or even worse, accidents.

In Australia, the excessive heat during our Summer (Dec, Jan, Feb.) usually sees a major increase in commercial vehicle tyre failures, with the result increased number of tyre carcasses and parts of carcasses, littering the highways.

Kiltrash
8th Sep 2016, 07:20
Over the years I have noticed a few caravans each year at the side of the road with flat / shredded tyres

Caravan tyres not used most of the year and let out a couple of times annually at 50mph (ish) cant be good for them

Peter-RB
8th Sep 2016, 07:40
The new modern never look at your tyre type drivers/people who think
"I have puncture proof tyre, "they are ok to run FLAT" no they are not there is a max distance at a max speed it they loose their air..the Clue is " No tyre unless it is solid is PUNCTURE PROOF"

On HGVs, no such thing, there used to be a trade tyre called "BANDAG" they were the first in offering new tread on a usable old carcase of any sized HGV tyre..but these were in the 60/70/80s era before transport companies started to get hold of tractor units with huge Horse power, horse power in those days was rated at max 6 HP per ton so with a max load GVW of 32 tons so you had big lazy engines with a total output of 180 up to 240 HP...but even at the slow speed these old oil burners travelled at you still had tyre carcases and tread exploding because the new rubber outer tread expanded at a different rate so hence tread came off then carcase overheated more and burst..

Today we see max normal HGV tonnage at 44 tonnes..but Horse power up to the 650 hp( similar to F1 cars) with acceleration fully loaded that will outstrip many small cars, but a new version of the old Bandag( by a different company name) is now helping Transport companies to cut one of the main running costs ie tyres, a tyre for a max weight HGV (44t) can cost upwards of 300 each.. there could be 18 tyres on any normal commercial Articulated rig.
The very wide Super Singles that are used can cost up to 450 each so any company offering a cheap alternative is always in with a chance of helping to litter our roads and motorways with very heavy and dangerous scrap tyres..!

UniFoxOs
8th Sep 2016, 08:29
And presumably tyre pressure monitors are non-starters. I fitted a set to my AM (very expensive tyres I didn't want to risk) and was very pleased that I could see the pressure from the driving seat (and tell how fast I was driving by the temperature causing pressure rise). The set cost me about a quarter the price of one tyre.

BUT while an HGV owner could easily fit similar to his tractor, and the potential savings would be considerably greater, he will probably be towing any amount of different trailers which may not have them and, even if they did, would not necessarily be compatible with the system on his tractor.

Picked up a rental Transit a while back, with double rear wheels. Looked OK to me but fortunately the retired professional HGV driver, who I had along to share the driving, checked all the tyres, including the inners, and found one totally flat. Cue rather sheepish looks from the rental staff who obviously hadn't done a full check.

G-CPTN
8th Sep 2016, 08:33
Vehicles that run 'off-road' collecting timber from forests are being fitted with deflation/inflation systems.
Lowering tyre pressures when running over unmade surfaces can increase traction (as well as reducing damage to the surface) and then the system re-inflates the tyres for on-road use.

bingofuel
8th Sep 2016, 08:40
Sitigeltfel

For info

For trucks (vehicles exceeding 3.5 tonnes g.v.w), current tread depth legislation requires that they must have a minimum of 1mm of tread in a continuous band throughout the central three-quarters of the tread width and over the whole circumference of the tyre. The same regulation applies to regrooved tyres.

spInY nORmAn
8th Sep 2016, 08:58
The new modern never look at your tyre type drivers/people who think
"I have puncture proof tyre, "they are ok to run FLAT" no they are not there is a max distance at a max speed it they loose their air..the Clue is " No tyre unless it is solid is PUNCTURE PROOF"

On HGVs, no such thing, there used to be a trade tyre called "BANDAG" they were the first in offering new tread on a usable old carcase of any sized HGV tyre..but these were in the 60/70/80s era before transport companies started to get hold of tractor units with huge Horse power, horse power in those days was rated at max 6 HP per ton so with a max load GVW of 32 tons so you had big lazy engines with a total output of 180 up to 240 HP...but even at the slow speed these old oil burners travelled at you still had tyre carcases and tread exploding because the new rubber outer tread expanded at a different rate so hence tread came off then carcase overheated more and burst..

Today we see max normal HGV tonnage at 44 tonnes..but Horse power up to the 650 hp( similar to F1 cars) with acceleration fully loaded that will outstrip many small cars, but a new version of the old Bandag( by a different company name) is now helping Transport companies to cut one of the main running costs ie tyres, a tyre for a max weight HGV (44t) can cost upwards of 300 each.. there could be 18 tyres on any normal commercial Articulated rig.
The very wide Super Singles that are used can cost up to 450 each so any company offering a cheap alternative is always in with a chance of helping to litter our roads and motorways with very heavy and dangerous scrap tyres..!
Bandag is still going strong as well!

HeartyMeatballs
8th Sep 2016, 09:04
Worst I've seen is Florida. By far.

Hydromet
8th Sep 2016, 09:06
...the major urban highways in my neck of the woods, down here in the underworld, are swept by road crews on a reasonably regular basis to remove any debris on the road surface, that could cause vehicle damage or even worse, accidents.Not just urban roads. The Hume Hwy, and I presume, the other major highways are also cleaned up regularly.

Sallyann1234
8th Sep 2016, 09:53
What concerns me are the scruffy looking roadside premises selling 'part worn' or 'nearly new' tyres. Where do those tyres come from?
I suspect that they are sourced from more reputable dealers who have condemned damaged tyres as being unrepairable.

andytug
8th Sep 2016, 09:58
I suspect VOSA like all the public services are doing their best with the limited resources they have. A mate of mine runs a recovery firm and is always moaning about getting pulled by VOSA, but suspect it may be because his base is near one of their test places, if you never pass one you may never get checked.
If there are even a tenth of the number of lorry tyres under inflated as there are car tyres it's no wonder they blow out so much, a quick look round any car park will turn up loads of clearly under inflated tyres, often expensive low profile ones at that. Must cost people a fortune in fuel and new tyres....
The tyre inflation machine at our local garage costs 50p, and saves me more than that in petrol checking them every 2-3 weeks.

Loose rivets
8th Sep 2016, 10:55
Hundreds and hundreds of them on the side of hot Texas roads - sometimes not yet tugged over by helpful guys with trucks. Horrible.



I fitted a set to my AM (very expensive tyres I didn't want to risk) and was very pleased that I could see the pressure from the driving seat (and tell how fast I was driving by the temperature causing pressure rise). The set cost me about a quarter the price of one tyre.

UFO, prey tell us more. I've got the iDrive set to monitor the basic deflation on the new RunFlats, but it works by rotation differences and doesn't tell me the details which would be nice. Do you have to fit the entire valve, or just the insert?


I went for the standard factory spec listed on the door label. Bridgestone 245 45 28's Y rated. This set were subsidised by the dealer, but depite promises, I have a feeling the replacements will be a tad frightening. Still, I can go at 300kph now. :ooh:

G-CPTN
8th Sep 2016, 11:14
a quick look round any car park will turn up loads of clearly under inflated tyres, often expensive low profile ones at that
and when you point out to the driver they 'argue' that it's because they are low profile innit . . . :ugh:

Peter-RB
8th Sep 2016, 12:11
Sally,..

Most part worns hail from Germany where the MOT Min tread depth I think is 5mm, so many "scruffy " looking tyre sellers are buying these by the wagon full at about 2.00 each to resell here at about 15 to 30 ..." Depends what sort of motor is involved"....here in the Grimy North of the UK its 99% Asian garages who also fit such things to TAXIs...Good init!! :sad:

UniFoxOs
8th Sep 2016, 13:21
LR - These were fitted in place of the valve. Deflate the tyre, push the tyre away from the rim, remove the original valve and fit the new ones. There are fitted with a battery reputed to last 7 years, and are specific to each wheel as they transmit the pressure by radio to the receiver in the cockpit. This shows a display of 4 numbers oriented like the wheels, and has various alarms for setting low pressure, high temp or whatever, and for setting the display mode in real units (PSI) or foreign ones.

I didn't notice any balance difference when fitted, although I suppose some cars with lighter wheels might need rebalancing.

Cost about GBP 100. The tyres were quoted to me as GBP 500 each, although I managed to get a set for considerably less than that in the end - I think the dealer got his pricing wrong!

Effluent Man
8th Sep 2016, 15:54
We used to buy part worns from a nearby breakers yard and fit them to the cheapest of the trade ins to sell sub 1000. If a car needed four tyres the option was budget new at thirty quid a tyre or often a set of good part worn ones for a third of that. Often they would be good quality brands like Michelin and far better quality than new.

I stand to be corrected but I find it hard to believe Germany requires 5mm I think new tyres only have 8. I recently checked my Michelins and found the rears have 2.5mm after almost 30,000 miles. I will replace them at the MOT in December.

Just checked..it is1.6mm in Germany, 3mm advisory for Autobahns.

Sallyann1234
8th Sep 2016, 16:20
I recently had a flat due to a screw though the tread, went to the local branch of a national chain expecting to get it plugged as on previous occasions. "Nah, can't plug this one. The hole is too close to the edge of the tyre." So I had to buy a new tyre, and pay 5 for environmental disposal of the old one.

What's the betting that tyre was plugged anyway and sold down the road as part worn, nearly new?

Loose rivets
8th Sep 2016, 17:39
Thanks, UFO. I think I'll go that route next car - the Meggablaster won't be staying for long. Utterly impracticable, being too heavy, too wide, and having a mind of its own - which insists on doing things when I don't want it to. (like putting the mirrors out at 23 mph despite being in a country lane.)

It's about the same to the tips of the mirrors as the 96 Caddy Fleetwood - the last of the biggies.

Mind you, I came opposite an Audi megger car today. It looked about one foot tall, having been dropped from a great height which had caused it to spread out like a high powered black cow-pat with luminescent eyes.

Metro man
9th Sep 2016, 05:14
The total road contact area of tyres on an average car is one square foot. A cars weighs around a ton and can be doing 70mph on a wet motorway. Bearing this in mind, would you want to risk second hand tyres from some dodgy backstreet dealer on a car in which you and your family were travelling ?

The old saying about buying a good bed and a good pair of shoes as you are in one or the other should extend to tyres as well.

Effluent Man
9th Sep 2016, 08:47
Sadly a significant proportion of drivers today rely on their cars to get them to and from low paid jobs and their finances do not extend to a set of tyres that, in many cases, may cost as much as the car itself. Often the distances involved are small. I had one customer who was a carer and travelled round to old people's houses doing short spells of work and then moving to the next.

I doubt that she ever leaves town in her 1100 cc Citroen Saxo so I think a set of new Michelins might be superfluous.

UniFoxOs
9th Sep 2016, 10:08
pay 5 for environmental disposal of the old one.

Rip off. My local garage charges me a quid to add mine to their disposal pile, I believe he pays 90p per tyre when the collector comes.

Just checked..it is1.6mm in Germany, 3mm advisory for Autobahns

Local van rental place will not rent you a white van for a booze cruise due to continental requirements (he said) of 3.5mm. Maybe this is just France, or maybe vans need more than cars.

Avitor
9th Sep 2016, 10:33
Rip off. My local garage charges me a quid to add mine to their disposal pile, I believe he pays 90p per tyre when the collector comes.



Local van rental place will not rent you a white van for a booze cruise due to continental requirements (he said) of 3.5mm. Maybe this is just France, or maybe vans need more than cars.
Or is it the threat of it being impounded by over zealous customs zealots?

I16
9th Sep 2016, 11:37
Very scary last year passing a truck on the Hume about 100km from Melbourne.
About midway past a sudden puff of dirt & dust followed by a bang from the truck.
Big throttle input by myself - looking in the mirrors lots of tyre bits with a steel rim bit that seemed to be catching up.
New way of passing trucks is to move into passing lane and go as fast as you can to get in front!

andytug
9th Sep 2016, 11:55
Motorway blowouts are scary in any vehicle - couple of years ago I was going over the top of the M62 at just under the limit when a Transit towing a pretty large single axle caravan flew past me at what must have been at least 85mph. When he got about 4-500 yds ahead of me the left hand tyre of the caravan blew out. Bits of plastic wheel trim and tyre everywhere. But.... the driver continued on! I put the pedal right down, caught up a safe distance behind and flashed headlights at him for nearly a minute until he finally cottoned on and went for the hard shoulder. Caravan tyres aren't designed for that speed, he was lucky it didn't fishtail and flip the whole combination.

DirtyProp
9th Sep 2016, 12:03
New way of passing trucks is to move into passing lane and go as fast as you can to get in front!
Actually that would be the most sensible way to overtake any truck or vehicle.
I forgot the amount of idiots I meet on the highway that want to overtake a truck keeping the same cruising speed. Dumbest idea ever, unless your cruise is already much faster.
Strangely enough, they get annoyed when somebody behind them flashes the lights to make them go faster.

Wingswinger
9th Sep 2016, 13:29
That's a rather nave question really......lets start with the cuts to police funding and the now all to common reduction in the numbers of Traffic Officers / Patrols.....then there was the former VOSA, or rather the now rebranded DVSA....again, subject to financial cuts and hence far less of a presence than previously....

Still, the Public Sector was always "over manned" .....at least in the minds of many who berate it.

Thanks for that K&C. Don't miss an opportunity to spout your left-wing, statist prejudice do you? And if you can insult some-one while doing so, so much the better. Well done, old chap.

Effluent Man
9th Sep 2016, 13:36
I still recall a trip to London around 1971 in a Mark 2 3.8 Jag. My mate had just about wound it up to full chat when a front tyre blew. We snaked from side to side for a bit and eventually came to a halt about half a mile along. It turned out that the previous, somewhat impecunious owner, had fitted Goodyear replicas that sold for about a tenner and were only good for 70mph. We were more or less on the rim by the time we stopped.

crippen
9th Sep 2016, 19:49
Very few tyre treads on the roads in Thailand !

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/283/471/2/S2834712/slug/l/kenya-economy-sandals-1.jpg

Soon get picked in the Land of Smiles.

Be careful you do not get one foot on cross ply,the other on radial. You will fall over on corners. ;)

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/9a693bbc4c904824a71c3c1a5d9df37b/recycled-tyres-made-into-rubbish-bins-siem-reap-cambodia-eyhryt.jpg

and the carcases make excellent dust bins.

onetrack
10th Sep 2016, 01:51
A mate bought a brand new Mini Cooper S about 1968. It was shod with Dunlop SP40's. After he'd owned it 3 weeks, he and 3 mates decided to go for a "top speed" run to see what it would do.

They were running just over 100mph, when first - one front SP40 blew - then a rear SP40 blew just seconds later.

He ran straight off the highway right at a huge concrete culvert. The Mini flew over the concrete-faced culvert entrance, and slammed nose-first into the far side of the concrete culvert entrance.

It snapped in half at the front windscreen pillars (a bad habit of Minis in prangs, I gather), then somersaulted twice to land flat on its wheels, with the roof peeled back like a garage door.

All four people in the Mini just unfastened their seatbelts and stood up into open air from their seats - basically uninjured. Needless to say, the mate would never buy Dunlop tyres, ever again.

UniFoxOs
10th Sep 2016, 08:02
Caravan tyres aren't designed for that speed

And a few months ago I came upon a bit of a blockage on the A444, where a caravan had a flat tyre. This was not just an ordinary caravan - it was a two-bedroom mobile home, being towed by a [email protected] in a posy pickup. Those tyres are only designed for moving the thing around on a site, not for road use at all.