JAT (Yugoslav Airlines) Boeing 707s

[Mooncrest]

Thankyou to all who contributed to the Britannia 707 thread.

In the summer of 1985, JAT (using Air Yugoslavia flight numbers - JR) operated a weekly series of
return flights from Pula to Leeds Bradford using a Boeing 707. At the time it struck me that the 707 was a peculiar choice of aircraft for a relatively short flight. I have since been informed on good authority that the 727 was originally timetabled for this particular service but it turned out to be a 707 on every rotation. Incidentally, it was always the ex-Northwest Orient aircraft, YU-AGI and AGJ that did the honours, alternating week by week.

Did any other UK airports see the JAT 707s on Yugotours charter flights, or was this another LBA nuance ?

Thankyou.

[rog747]

yes i am sure other yugotours flights were operated by JAT 707's

often seen at LGW and MAN

yugotours also used inex adria DC9
aviogenex TU134
and JAT 727's and DC9's

[KeMac]

The B707s flew into Glasgow as well. There is a colour photo of one (YU-AGJ) at Abbotsinch in the book "Glasgow's Airports: Renfrew & Abbotsinch" published by the History Press

[Rob Courtney]

British Airtours used their 707s on very short sectors, I remember they used to do Gatwick to Gerona in the mid 70s.

[jensdad]

We had them at Newcastle as well. Those were the days!

[Mooncrest]

Obviously not just a Leeds Bradford thing then. On reflection, we only saw JAT 707s at LBA for one season, thereafter being supplanted by the 727 on the Pula flights. By this time JAT had a few new 737-300s, thereby releasing a few DC9s and 727s for the Yugotours work and perhaps relegating the 707s further !

At the time I thought the 707s were a pair of old bangers, apart from being proper old aeroplanes. Yet they were only about twenty years old when they passed through LBA. Now Jet2 has at least one thirty year-old 737 in its fleet !

[WHBM]

JAT initially bought the 707s for their long-haul services to the USA etc. They never bought a new one, but started off with former Pan Am turbojet-powered 707-320s, then moved on to fan-powered ones as they came onto the market. In 1978-9 they started on a DC-10 fleet for these mainstream flights and the 707s, probably pretty much at residual value by then, got used on a range of charters, to various UK/German/Scandinavian points, and were also leased out off-season a bit longer term. They turned up on the Hadj from time to time, of course.

Yugotours were a UK tour operator but owned behind the scenes from Yugoslavia. Most years they only used Yugoslavian airlines, from a wide range of UK points to a mix of Dalmatian coast points. They were notable that they only appeared to operate UK flights on Saturday/Sunday, and no night flights, which must have given them a significant advantage in the holiday market, so presumably their chartered aircraft didn't rack up many hours, and the 707s fuel burn wasn't that important in overall costings. I recall seeing three Aviogenex Tu134s lined up abreast at Manchester on August Saturday mornings. That was probably an even less economical aircraft per passenger seat than the 707. Their pilots were a contrast to the rest of those down on the ramp, especially 30 years ago, in not wearing ties !

Apparently 707 YU-AGJ, one of the JAT ex-Northwest 707 pair, which was sold onwards in Africa, still languishes in the weeds at Kinshasa. Possibly one of these https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-4.3831838,15.4531654,373m/data=!3m1!1e3

[Mooncrest]

Terrific aeroplane. Thanks for your input WHBM - I knew you would have something to contribute.

LBA was a relatively late entrant to the Yugoslavia holiday market, given that it didn't have a sufficiently long runway for the Adria/Aviogenex/JAT fleets until 1985. Prior to then, Britannia operated a series of Saturday morning Pula flights using a Transavia 737 during the summer of 1983. Thereafter Yugotours settled in, initially just using JAT but eventually Adria (Tarom 1-11) and Aviogenex joined the fray too.

It was quite exciting to see a 707 at LBA for the first time, as well as unexpected. I'd seen plenty of them at Manchester but it was the first 'plus-size' Boeing to use LBA regularly until the Britannia 767, so it was quite something.

[WHBM]

Yugoslavia was a mixture of central socialism and free market, which often seemed to consist of multiple state agencies competing with one another. This is what happened with their airlines.

JAT was the official state airline, and the separate Air Jugoslavia was their charter arm but only on the commercial side; operationally they just used JAT aircraft although with different flight number prefixes.

Aviogenex was a subsidiary of the state-owned General Export Agency (hence the name), who favoured Tupolev 134s as a cross-arrangement for the substantial amount of agricultural produce they also exported to the Soviet Union.

Inex-Adria, as it was known at the time, was part of InterExport, yet another state agency charged with managing Imports and Exports (again hence the name), with a mainly DC9 fleet.

Tourism was a principal foreign currency earner, what these businesses were about, and they also had access to foreign currency funds for aircraft purchases needed to support this.

[Curious Pax]

Worked as a dispatcher at MAN in summer 1986, and handled all the Yugoslav airlines - Aviogenex Tu134s, JAT 727s, DC9s and at least 1 707; and Inex Adria DC9s and MD80s.

The crews always used to dive into the terminal to do some shopping as soon as they could on arrival. On one memorable occasion I had to put calls out for them to return urgently as I was 10 mins past STD, and had a JAT 727 full of pax, but just the most junior hosty on board! The baggage handlers needed to leave, and as it was they who moved the steps in those days by the time the crew got back they had to use the built in rear steps. Something of a walk of shame back to the cockpit for the flight deck folk!

[lotus1]

Yugotours also did a number of charters from manston in Kent operated by Aviogenex 737 also did see an inex Dc9 this must have been around 93/94 THis was the same time spanish airline VIva air operated there 737s from there under cosmos holidays

[Midland 331]

Re: 707s on IT flights - BMA used them extensively circa 1982-3 to the usual Med and Canaries destinations.

211 seats due to all-Y config and a galley taken out.

I don't know what the economics were, but there was one dedicated reservations agent at Castle Don. who spent his time dealing with schedule changes, calling the trade and private passengers to tell them the flight times had been changed, sometimes significantly. I guess that the intention was to chop any weak rotations and keep the load factors way up by smart utilization.

With typical astuteness, Midland got out of this market when seat prices fell, and the "Boeings" (as we called them) were redeployed on ABC Canadian charters.

[Mooncrest]

It's sad to think that YU-AGJ may have come to such an undignified end. That aeroplane and its sister ship, AGI, must have given years of faithful service to JAT and NW Orient before. I don't know how the pair fared for technical reliability but I don't remember any significant delays on the PUY-LBA-PUY rotations. Having said that, my ex-boss had frequent contact with them both and has told tales of absent engine fan blades and unserviceable APUs (provided they had APUs in the first place) !

[hatton]

JAT used Boeing 727s and 707s into EMA on Sunday mornings in the 1980s.

[WHBM]

spent his time dealing with schedule changes, calling the trade and private passengers to tell them the flight times had been changed, sometimes significantly. I guess that the intention was to chop any weak rotations and keep the load factors way up by smart utilization.
This was how charter operators worked in those days. Not only consolidating loads in the shoulder season to keep any flying seats sat on, but also mixing it with late charter opportunities, in particular chances of subcharters to other operators where needed, firing off to do such a sudden lucrative operation and then coming back maybe hours late for previously planned work.

"Hello, um, we're AOG at Malaga awaiting an engine change with 150 return pax in the terminal. You don't have nearby by any chance ..." "Oh YES we do ... where did you say it was ?"

The worst were the US transatlantic charter companies, who by the 1970s-80s had mainly moved on to Stretched DC8s. They would take commercial arrangements, but their base load was US military charters to Germany etc, which inevitably would often get switched around at the last moment. This was a lot of unbalanced work and the commercial charters, having positioned back from Frankfurt to Gatwick or wherever, were a way of getting loads both ways. Actually changing the day, even for return flights of a US charter group back home, were not unknown. It was generally palmed off as "technical issue needed for safety" rather than "commercial department got another opportunity".

[DanAir89]

Air Atlantis (TAP subsidiary) was another airline that used 707's on relatively short flights incl NCL to FAO in 86.

Never saw a JAT 707 but did fly on their 737-300's in the late 80's to DBV. Apart from the JR pre-fix the only sight/mention of Air Yugoslavia was coming home at DBV where the indicator boards showed this name instead of JAT. At the time this was the most modern aircraft that I'd been on and the first with TV's on board. The entertainment was however limited to a promotional film and song about Belgrade which was on a constant loop for 3 hours each way!

Perhaps because it was a Saturday, the crew were taking in easy. The safety demonstration video has just started as we lined up for take off at DBV, it was then abruptly stopped and resumed once in the air (legal?) as soon as in the air the crew started smoking while still in their seats (with numerous ciggy breaks following!) and while we assumed that the captain had initially made a mistake saying we were going to GLA it turned out as we flew over NCL at 30,000ft he actually thought we were! Either he realised or ATC pointed out where we were supposed to be going but a very rapid decent followed! Not very slick but it made it memorable as did the man who walked from the back of the plane with a tool box shortly after leaving DBV and then performed some "in flight maintainaence" while in the air with the cockpit door open!

[rog747]

as an aside i flew LGW-DBV-LGW
2 weeks hols in AUG 1972
should have been a BCAL 1-11 500 but BCAL just pranged G-AWYS at CFU in a RTO overrun and they were short of lift

outbound from LGW we had a Northeast Trident and coming home the famous Wardair
727!

flew inex adria dc9's and super 80 plus TU-134 of Aviogenex

Aviogenex lost a 134 on landing in a Yugotours nasty firey crash at Rijeka KRK in 1971/72 coming from LGW one evening
big TS activity and the crew lost sight of the runway on short final with heavy rain and windshear and did a hard landing which flipped the 134 over upside-down and it slid on its roof on fire
all UK pax 72 died in the fire as they were trapped inside due blocked exits as the wing turned in on itself blocking the exits windows and pax were still strapped upside down in their seats. cabin crew could not open the fwd doors due distortion and also died

only the flight deck crew got out as the nose snapped off and the only pax to survive was a local yugotours rep sitting at the back and he got out through the rear baggage hold

soon after 134's had larger over wing exits installed but not sure if this was due to this accident http://www.planes-international.com/MAN-HS-AG-TU3-1.jpg

[WHBM]

coming home the famous Wardair 727!I went in this a few years earlier, on its more normal routing of LGW - Sondrestrom (Greenland) - Vancouver. I wonder if the return flight to Canada the day of your Dubrovnik trip was delayed so they could stick in a quick subcharter. It was for some years a summer regular at Gatwick, and less frequently at Manchester or Prestwick. In the winter it used to live on Vancouver to Honolulu or Acapulco.

[rog747]

True, WHBM, and also i think wardair was registered with a charter broker pool like many airlines who had spare downtime for possible upcoming ad-hoc jobs - chances are this was planned as the BCAL CFU RTO incident was in July and my flights were in mid Aug of 1972.

G-AWYS Corfu 2 (http://www.british-caledonian.com/G-AWYS_Corfu_2.html)

our outbound LGW-DBV 2 weeks before was a Northeast trident so its obvious this DBV rotation was subbed out weekly for much of the high season

was not a Yugotours flight but a Horizon Holidays flight

the WD 727 was a LGW regular from 1966-1973 when she was sold abroad to Sth America

she was a beauty - glad you enjoyed her too

[Mooncrest]

Speaking of Eastern European old bangers, do Bulgarian TU154s still turn up in the UK ? Two or three decades ago these were a common site on Saturdays and Sundays from Aberdeen to Bristol, usually flying to Varna or Bourgas. Initially, at LBA, they were operated by Balkan Bulgarian Airlines, then Air VIA and finally Balkan Holidays Air. Threadbare tyres and baggage holds that reeked of cattle's business. But built like tanks.

I think Tarom did a few Black Sea charters with their Tupolevs as well, plus the Ilyushin IL18 Constanza trips.

[Wycombe]

British Airtours used their 707s on very short sectors

I remember flying LGW-DBV and return in these as a young lad, would have been 1975 I think.

What I remember for sure is that we lost a nosewheel on landing at DBV.

I think this was on the Conway-engined 707-436's.

[WHBM]

I think the 154s have gone altogether from western Europe, a combination of cheap 737-300s, noise regs, and the 8.33KHz radio kit upgrade. I did see one active in Russia two years ago, it was a substitute for a 737. I was also on what must have been one of the last scheduled Tu154 operations into the UK, on Rossiya from St Petersburg to Gatwick - gosh, it was April 2008. How time passes. Here it is on arrival at Gatwick South terminal.

[Mooncrest]

I think the last year I saw a TU154 at LBA was 2005. BH Air have operated Airbuses almost exclusively at LBA since them. I did see them in later years at Manchester but not recently. Shame - serious old aeroplane!

[Airbanda]

AFAIK the 154 is not compliant with noise regs and commercial ops are banned.

[Mooncrest]

Thinking back to 1985, Leeds Bradford wasn't using SIDs so it was quite common for eastbound departures to be given direct routings by Manchester Control shortly after the minimum noise routing. This frequently resulted in the JAT 707 going direct to Ottringham (missing out UPTON) and flying over my then home about two miles east of LBA. The growly whine from those old PW engines was fabulous to hear.

[A30_737_AEWC]

Came upon this thread looking for serials/registrations/model numbers of the JAT Boeing 707 fleet. Interesting mixed fleet of types/variants they had. I note a few links to Pakistan's PIA.

My first EVER flight in any aircraft was on a JAT Boeing 707 which operated 'scheduled charter flights' between Belgrade (LYBE) and Melbourne (YMML) in the early 1970s. The flight was in 1974 and I wangled 3 months off early primary school on a family trip to the 'old country', actually not long after their 'seven-ohs' entered service it seems. I have recollections during my teen aircraft-spotting years of the DC-10s regularly plying their way into YMML. I think Dad flew back to see his elderly parents in SLO during the later DC-10 days (sometime before the mid-1980s were done).

I recall stopovers in Singapore (WSSS) (mightily humid and oppressive at night) and Karachi (OPKC) (daytime heat with armed guards evident on the tarmac - what I now know to have been a shared military airfield) before arriving in Belgrade. It was quite a trip with Dad and 2 of his brothers, respective wives and 5 kids between 6-11 years of age in the troupe !

Have some nice decals from Lift Here! to build a 1/144 scale 707 in the classic JAT early scheme one of these day, hence the interest in variants and configurations.

[rog747]

Yes ,before JAT got it's new DC-10's they first flew charters to Australia and the USA with the 707's.
The 707 was first used from1970 for JAT's intercontinental routes until the arrival of the DC10-30 in 1979 (747SP and 747-200 were also under consideration) when the 707 was switched to Euro-Atlantic routes and Yugotours charter flights for Air Yugoslavia.

JAT's first 707 examples were some early old ex Pan Am 707-321's which many airlines started to obtain from around 1970/71.
Dan Air, BMA, Lloyd, THY and Donaldson all got some of these too.
JAT then soon got 4 ex PIA 707C's from 1972 and 2 more from Northwest in 1974.


1970
- On May 19, the first Boeing 707-321, YU-AGA, which JAT rented from Pan-Am, flew to Belgrade Airport. remained in the fleet until July 25, 1974.
- On June 1, a B-707 aircraft introduced charter traffic to Australia. This year, flies on average three times a week, twice to Sydney and once to Melbourne, on the route Belgrade - Karachi - Singapore - Australia. Perth was also served.
- June 19, the first charter flight Belgrade - Toronto by B-707. During the year, JAT also opens charter traffic to the United States to SFO and JFK.
Transatlantic flights on the B-707 to the USA went via London or SNN Ireland, while flights to Australia in those years went via Ankara, Tehran, Karachi, India and Singapore.
JAT also leased from Pan Am, 707-321's N716PA/722PA/723PA and 724PA. One was reg'd YU-AGH.

1971
- December 11, the first flight to China on a B-707 aircraft arranged by Air Yugoslavia

1972
- On May 30, the first, then on December 5, the second B-707C aircraft leased by JAT for intercontinental traffic from PIA (YU-AGE and YU-AGG). Both aircraft were purchased in 1975.
YU-AGF and AGD were also added from PIA.

1974
- April another 2 B-707, which JAT bought from NWA (YU-AGI and YU-AGJ), landed on April 17.

1975
- April 1, JAT opens the first intercontinental line Belgrade - Karachi - Singapore - Sydney. Based on the agreement between the Government of Australia, as well as the agreement between JAT and "Qantas". The traffic was performed by B-707 twice a week.

1979
May 18, the new DC-10 flies to Australia once a week instead of B-707, which flew twice a week.

1987, October 31, the last commercial flight of a Boeing 707 on YU-AGI on the Belgrade-Zagreb-Brussels route.


707 v DC-10
- In November 1971, during a visit to the United States, President Tito visits the McDonnell Douglas aircraft factory in Long Beach and inspects the production and latest model of the DC-10 aircraft.
1972
- August 9, the American aircraft manufacturing company McDonnell Douglas organized a demonstration flight of its new DC-10 aircraft in Belgrade. In the cabin of this plane, at the "Belgrade" airport, a contract was signed for the purchase of six new DC-9 planes for JAT.
1977
- May 20, The Managing Authority of JAT made a decision to purchase a new type of wide-body aircraft for intercontinental traffic. The choice fell on the DC-10.
- On July 15, in Long Beach, California, a contract was signed for the purchase of the first DC-10-30 wide-body aircraft.
1978
- February 2, a contract is signed in New York for the purchase of another DC-10. The contract was signed on behalf of JAT by General Manager Dragoslav Radisavljevic.
- On April 2, Air Yugoslavia starts charter flights to Beijing. On September 15, the first test flight of JAT's first DC-10 aircraft - YU-AMA - was performed in Long Beach.
- On December 12, JAT's DC-10, YU-AMA few non-stop from Long Beach to Belgrade Airport. At the festive reception, it was named "Nikola Tesla".
On May 16, 1979, another DC-10 - 30 YU-AMB flew to the "Belgrade" airport, which was named "Edward Rusyan" at the airport reception.

During early 1987, it was decided to buy another DC-10 30 (YU-AMC), but that decision was withdrawn after the decision to buy the then new MD-11 (successor to the DC-10) was formally made. JAT definitely confirmed the decision to purchase MD-11, so in 1989 it gave up the purchase of another third DC-10-30 and began negotiations with McDonnell Douglas regarding the procurement of the MD-11 as a replacement for the DC-10.
The decision to purchase three MD-11s (YU-AME / F / G) was made on March 3, 1989. And in June 1990, JAT ordered a fourth copy, plus two more as an option.
Among the first companies to order this type of new aircraft was JAT, which ordered 4 with delivery in 1992. Although two had already been produced, these were never delivered due to UN sanctions against the FRY. 1 went to AA and the other to WO.

[Mooncrest]

Does anybody know if the JAT DC-10 fleet ever turned up on the Yugotours or other I.T. flights ? I think it's doubtful - they are likely to have spent most of their time on long haul schedules - but all the other JAT aircraft did charter work. Actually, I'm not sure if the Caravelle did.

[ATNotts]

Does anybody know if the JAT DC-10 fleet ever turned up on the Yugotours or other I.T. flights ? I think it's doubtful - they are likely to have spent most of their time on long haul schedules - but all the other JAT aircraft did charter work. Actually, I'm not sure if the Caravelle did.

Depends what you call "charter work" since the JAT schedules to various UK regional airports from PUY and DBV were essentially Yugotours charter flights. The flight numbers were in the JU2xx range. Caravelles were certainly scheduled for the DBV/BHX service for at least one season. I recall the local BHX spotters being miffed because the DBV service for that season moved to EMA - the only year I seem to recall when EMA had JAT "schedules" under "JU" flight numbers. I recall it was claimed at the time (probably incorrectly) that the Caravelles couldn't operate from BHXs runway, though given there was little difference at the time between BHX 15/33 and EMA 10/28 I doubt that rumour held any water whatsoever. Transeuropa, Aviaco and Hispania appeared to have no problems operating to the Balearics, indeed Hsipania flew off Coventry's runway for at least one season and that was / is way shorter than BHX had at the time. I digress!

As for the Air Jugoslavia (IATA code JR) charters certainly I recall DC9, 727 and 707 operating those charters, I can't recall Caravelles being used, nor the DC10.

I reckon @rog747 is your man for that one!

[Mooncrest]

Thankyou AT. Like I said, doubtful.

[WHBM]

Don't believe there were any planned DC-10 trips to Britain, not to say they would not do the odd substitute. They did do affinity-group charters to transatlantic points like Toronto (inevitably) or Chicago. Some summer seasons they leased in an extra aircraft from the likes of Sabena or Finnair. The DC-10s appeared fully based at Belgrade, unlike the 707s which got outstationed in the summer season to Dubrovnik, and were always standard first/economy configuration, whereas the older 707s were reseated to total charter arrangement.

[rog747]

Does anybody know if the JAT DC-10 fleet ever turned up on the Yugotours or other I.T. flights ? I think it's doubtful - they are likely to have spent most of their time on long haul schedules - but all the other JAT aircraft did charter work.
Actually, I'm not sure if the Caravelle ever did.

Thanks!
I can only add-
The JAT DC-10's did do charter flights, but not for UK Yugotours, unlike their 707's - The DC-10 did more long haul charters to USA/Canada/China and Australia.
The DC-10 came to LHR and LGW on a rare occasion.

In 1968 a sixth JAT Caravelle registered as YU-AHG was delivered.
JAT technicians made immediate mods increasing the number of passenger seats from 86 to 91 in order to meet a higher demand for more charter flights
In 1969 the seventh Caravelle (YU-AHK) arrives.

Tito’s Yugoslavia Opens to the World -
Yugoslavia by 1969 drops most of the Tourist Visa requirements and thus Tourism took off which saw Yugotours in the UK massively expand with chartering Inex Adria and Aviogenex who both expanded with new Jet fleets from 1969/1970 with Yugotours soon flying from 14 UK Airports.

In 1970, Air Yugoslavia, JR/JU/YUGAIR, was formed as an independent unit of JAT with independent financing and management. Alongside with organizing charters in Europe, Air Yugoslavia organized the airlines first 707-321 charters to the United States and Canada, and also in 1970 JAT's first DC-9's were delivered.
JH/Pan Adria's DC-9 was also used on charter flights on behalf of JAT - their DC-9 would go to Inex Adria in 1974 with "Leased by Inex-Adria Airways" sticker beside the front door.

The JAT Caravelle did turn up at LGW in the late 60's and early 70's, and I am thinking that I saw them at BHX and EMA too, so assume these were IT flights most likely for Yugotours.
The JAT SE210 fleet were WFU 1976.

Apart from the Spanish charter airlines, AO, TR and HI/XF, it was SAM Italy (owned by AZ) who were the main Caravelle IT charter airline seen into LGW each summer, and also MAN BHX GLA flying for Citalia Holidays and others.

[WHBM]

The Yugoslav holiday flights had several advantages over those to Spain etc. They appeared to do no night flights, and for the UK at least operated almost wholly on Saturdays/Sundays. Commonly run as a "W" arrangement in a day, from Pula or Dubrovnik to a UK point, then to the opposite resort, and the reverse in the afternoon. I recall three Aviogenex Tu134A at manchester in 1980, side by side on remote stands, with the crew all out and chatting together. In uniform, but no ties ... unprecedented for UK crews in 1980 ! I believe all crews were ex-Yugoslav air force.

[SWBKCB]

Worked as a dispatcher at MAN in summer 1986, and handled all the Yugoslav airlines - Aviogenex Tu134s, JAT 727s, DC9s and at least 1 707; and Inex Adria DC9s and MD80s.

The crews always used to dive into the terminal to do some shopping as soon as they could on arrival. On one memorable occasion I had to put calls out for them to return urgently as I was 10 mins past STD, and had a JAT 727 full of pax, but just the most junior hosty on board! The baggage handlers needed to leave, and as it was they who moved the steps in those days by the time the crew got back they had to use the built in rear steps. Something of a walk of shame back to the cockpit for the flight deck folk!

That all sounds very familiar - the Genex hosties knew how to shop, but it wasn't difficult to cut them some slack...

Remember that at that time Yugoslavia was the second most popular holiday destination after Spain. I think with hindsight the number of different airlines trepresented the differenat nations which came out of Yugoslavia - you certainly wouldn't guess that the Inex and the Genex crews were from the same country.

[WHBM]

That all sounds very familiar - the Genex hosties knew how to shop, but it wasn't difficult to cut them some slack...

Remember that at that time Yugoslavia was the second most popular holiday destination after Spain. I think with hindsight the number of different airlines trepresented the differenat nations which came out of Yugoslavia - you certainly wouldn't guess that the Inex and the Genex crews were from the same country.
From experience of E Europe at the time, this shopping wouldn't necessarily be for frippery. They would come with lists from all the family and neighbours, and amounts of currency; I presume the Yugoslav Dinar was exchangeable at the airport currency desk by this time. Some surprising things that would be in short supply from time to time - I remember socks being scooped up from M&S. On one occasion a solitary hamburger from MacDonalds was being taken home untouched, to be divided there by the lady among her children.

Far less developed than Yugoslavia by 1970 was Albania, I believe from Dubrovnik there were actually tourist excursions by coach there, carefully routed and chaperoned to avoid the worst. Around this time Lord Brothers actually did a holiday series one year to supposedly-sealed Albania, once a fortnight on a Laker One-Eleven from Gatwick to Tirana, doubtless to a "closed" resort, which must have been a challenge. Don't think they repeated it.

[rog747]

The Yugoslav holiday flights had several advantages over those to Spain etc. They appeared to do no night flights, and for the UK at least operated almost wholly on Saturdays/Sundays. Commonly run as a "W" arrangement in a day, from Pula or Dubrovnik to a UK point, then to the opposite resort, and the reverse in the afternoon. I recall three Aviogenex Tu134A at manchester in 1980, side by side on remote stands, with the crew all out and chatting together. In uniform, but no ties ... unprecedented for UK crews in 1980 ! I believe all crews were ex-Yugoslav air force.

Indeed that is so how it was - Often at LGW seeing 2 or often 3 JAT Aviogenex and Inex Adria jets all on the ramp together...Same with SAM - 2 or sometimes 3 Caravelles all on the deck.
The Duty Free run for the crews was legendary as you mention.

WHBM - If you live in London or the South, perhaps we really should get together one day for a nice lunch or dinner and reminisce? and of course anyone else if they want -
might be fun after such an awful 2 years we have had.
Pprune A&N Charter days Lunch lol

[Mooncrest]

At Leeds Bradford, our Yugotours flights were on Sunday and Monday. Sunday would get Pula, Dubrovnik and Split and Mondays were always just Ljubljana. All three operators and most types over the years, including the 1-11s leased by Adria from Tarom but no Aviogenex Tupolevs ever. I don't recall any Yugotours stuff on Saturdays but it's such a long time ago I can't be sure. I'm absolutely certain we never saw a JAT DC-10!

[DH106]

Sorry for the thread drift (maybe I should start my own on this), but Mooncrest - I too grew up under the approach of 15/14 at LBA and have often wondered if the airport ever saw certain types in the old days e.g. Vanguard, Britannia ?

[Mooncrest]

Sorry for the thread drift (maybe I should start my own on this), but Mooncrest - I too grew up under the approach of 15/14 at LBA and have often wondered if the airport ever saw certain types in the old days e.g. Vanguard, Britannia ?
I don't personally remember seeing either type at LBA but I do know for certain that at least one Invicta Vanguard has visited. I've seen a photograph of it parked on stand 1 some time in the early 1970s. It's quite likely to have been on a bulb field charter to Rotterdam. If you look on YouTube, there is a sequence of LBA in the 1970s and the Invicta Vanguard is on there. As for the Bristol Britannia, I absolutely don't know but it is a possibility, given BKS and Northeast kept one or two as back-up aircraft for the Heathrow flights. Helen49, if they're about, will have a better idea.

[rog747]

Sorry for the thread drift (maybe I should start my own on this), but Mooncrest - I too grew up under the approach of 15/14 at LBA and have often wondered if the airport ever saw certain types in the old days e.g. Vanguard, Britannia ?

I think LBA/Yeadon back then in the very late 60's/early 70's the Med IT charters was about Viscounts only - BKS mainly etc (Treffield had a contract but did not pay their bills)
BKS did not fly their Britannia's in there, nor did Britannia AW...and def No Tridents. They went out of NCL and MME.

I gather earlier in the 1960's Autair flew the Ambassador to Palma from Leeds, as did British Eagle with Viscounts.
BKS may have used the 748's on charters - Rotterdam, Basel and Ostend>?
In 1965 Dan Air Ambassadors flew to Palma and Valencia for Gaytours and Arrowsmith.

Runway 15/33 built for summer 1965 was 5400' long. That same year the Passenger Terminal burned down.
In 1968 the runway was planned to be extended to 7300' but in 1970 this was turned down; it would be years before that was seen (1984) so most of the IT flights were to shorter Med destinations and those like Ostend, Basel, and Rotterdam for the Bulb fields.

So it would still be Viscounts plodding to Gerona and Palma etc.
BKS could not use the Trident at Yeadon.
The 1969 BKS staff mag shows IT flights direct from LBA to Palma Ibiza Girona Barcelona and Rimini - all on BKS viscounts for Airways Holidays, Wallace Arnold and Thomas Cook Holidays on behalf of BEA who chose BKS to op the IT's from the Northeast.
The mag also quotes ''LBA is impossible for Tridents''.
Never knew after the name change if Northeast ever carried on the Viscount charters...The Tridents did from NCL and MME.

In summer 1976 Britannia Airways started their first 737 jets on a charter series to Palma, Alicante followed.
All charter destinations were very seasonal; most holidays back then were sold as 2 weekers, and the charter flights season was quite short, flown mainly at weekends and often as 'W's.
There was not much winter flying then from the smaller regionals like LBA and CDD.

Noted in another thread on LBA posted by Helen49
ADV737 operation from LBA to the Med by Britannia Airways.
The destinations also included Monastir and the vast majority of flights were full. The longevity of the Britannia LBA service speaks for itself.
The locals weren't bothered about the location of the destination....provided they could fly from LBA to the sun!
The flights were operated on the 'W' pattern using Manchester based aircraft and crews.
The flight deck gave LBA their best shot bearing in mind the airport's weather reputation, the lack of an ILS on Runway 15 and the restricted runway length.
The crews were very good at flying the half-mile SRAs on to runway 15. The ATCOs were also pretty good...
The 'W' pattern resulted in an early afternoon arrival and departure at LBA.
These timings enabled the operation to get in and out all the time which was almost unbelievable.
Particularly in the winter half of the year LBA would be shrouded in low cloud, the cloud base being down at Apperley Bridge and the former Murgatroyds chimney would have been nowhere in sight!
Nevertheless by 1300, the visibility both horizontal and vertical would start to improve and by ETA an approach would be legal and a landing accomplished.
Departures, whenever at all possible, took advantage of the greater take-off distance on runway 15, sometimes accepting up to around 15kt tail winds.
No sooner had they departed than the cloud base would return to the deck and visibility to 'not a lot'.
Not unusual for the Britannia 737 movements to be among the very few in the day!

[DH106]

Thanks rog747 - I didn't expect any 'regular' flights of these typs with the restrictive runway length, I was really looking to see if there were any specials/diversions etc. of these type.

Comets maybe?

[Mooncrest]

The nearest thing to a Comet LBA has hosted is the Caravelle. Transavia and Sterling in the 1970s. Perhaps also Hispania in the 1980s, before they acquired 737s.

Nimrods occasionally visited on training jollies during the 1990s.

[WHBM]

Pprune AH&N Charter days Lunch
Go for it. Who else ?

[Flightrider]

I don't recall any Yugotours stuff on Saturdays but it's such a long time ago I can't be sure.

I don't have the books to hand, but one of the four - and I'm sure it was Dubrovnik - flew on a Saturday evening into LBA with Aviogenex. The Aviogenex 737 was normally in/out around the same time as the Balkan TU154 until that switched to an early morning flight several years later and often accompanied by a Spantax (latterly Hispania) 737. You couldn't move in the tiny WH Smiths for the Aviogenex and Balkan crew.

Pula and Split were on Sundays, with the JAT 707 in 1985 (YU-AGI and the same Captain every week) for Pula and an Aviogenex 727 or 737 on Split. The Iberia A300 operating for Aviaco was also Sunday afternoon.

Ljubljana was on a Monday morning and varied between a JAT DC9-32 and a Tarom/Adria RomBac One-Eleven. If I remember rightly, there was an Aviaco DC9-34 direct LBA-Tenerife on a Monday morning as well. I'm convinced it only ever reached V2 heading south somewhere near Woodall Services on the M1. There were a few memorable departures which would make compulsive viewing on Youtube nowadays if it had been around back then. If ever an aircraft, a runway and a route were an ill-suited mix, the DC9 on Leeds-Tenerife was right up there alongside the British Island One-Eleven 500 on Saturday's Leeds-Palma for Arrowsmith.

[WHBM]

If ever an aircraft, a runway and a route were an ill-suited mix, the DC9 on Leeds-Tenerife was right up there.
The DC9-34 was a further enhancement of the DC9-30 series for greater MTOW. Not many were ordered and I think Aviaco was the principal purchaser, and may even have initiated the development, principally for routes from The Canaries to Northern European points. It basically was a beefing up of structure and gear, to allow more fuel on a high density configuration. It also had a 1 degree twist of wing incidence to enhance cruise economy, which inevitably had a downside on low speed runway performance. It would be OK off a Heathrow length runway. Douglas never seemed to have it together with their aerodynamics, the DC8 in particular had multiple goes at reworks of the wing, and the trend went right through to the reduced stab of the MD-11 of course.

[dixi188]

Boeing had quite a few variations on the 707 wing with various arrangements of flaps, slats, kruger flaps, fillet flaps, cuffs, etc.