QRs, moustaches and the USAF

[ricardian]

RAF pilot refuses US order to trim moustache (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2119950/RAF-pilot-refuses-US-order-to-trim-moustache.html)

[PingDit]

Good man and quite within his rights!

[RAFEngO74to09]

Old story dredged up from 2008.

RAF Exchange Pilot Joins US Afghan Operation (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive.cfm?storyid=5F33E0CF-1143-EC82-2EBB26DC49936260)

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | North East/N Isles | RAF pilot wins moustache battle (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/7451939.stm)

When you Google items, some on-line newspaper archives show the real date but when you display the page they put today's date !

[Pontius Navigator]

Back in the 60s we had a pilot on 12(B) with the aptly named initials JB. This character, and he was, sported a magnificent bushy, full moustache. The snag was it was impossible to get a seal on his Oxygen mask.

Anyway he would try and the moustache would sprout up out the top. Periodically he would give in and shave it off. Periods of shaved and unshaved coincided with the opposite period on his security ID.

His subsequent posts to Antarctica, Oman and back to Antarctica gave him amply time to enjoy his 'tash.

[Wander00]

However, one wonders if his stand, whilst "legal", was in the best interests of international co-operation and courtesy - "When in Rome......"

[Tankertrashnav]

My thoughts exactly, Wander00. Being "in the right" is not the main thing here - being courteous to your host nation is far more important.

Old story dredged up from 2008

Funnily enough the story has just popped up on Facebook today, as well.

[charliegolf]

Robin Olds was not as fortunate, apparently!

CG

[Courtney Mil]

What a complete arse. The whole point of doing an exchange tour is to learn, give and integrate with your host nation. Be respectful of their traditions and regulations. Form long-lasting relationships that will help both countries work together. His "rights" have nothing to do with being an ambassador for his country and service.

If I were the DA in Washington I would certainly have him reporting to me for a very sharp lesson in his responsibilities and that his facial fashion statement does not need to attract the attention of national media.

Arse.

[Pontius Navigator]

And an RN full set?

[Courtney Mil]

Equally unnecessary.

[Union Jack]

However, one wonders if his stand, whilst "legal", was in the best interests of international co-operation and courtesy - "When in Rome......" - Wander00

...and perhaps quite a good example of QRs being "for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" - fully agree with Wander00 and Courtney.

And an RN full set? - PN

No special stories come immediately to mind about full sets, but I do recall a Royal Marine officer having the starboard side of his rather luxuriant moustache being cut off surreptitiously whilst he was asleep, as a result of which he had of course to match up the port side himself.

Jack

[Pontius Navigator]

Must admit trying to think of an 'arse' of an exchange officer and admit I can't think of one.

[BEagle]

Must admit trying to think of an 'arse' of an exchange officer and admit I can't think of one.

We had a couple of KC-135 drivers who came to the VC10K for exchange tours who could be so described...

Back in the civilised days before aircrew were required to puff and pant their way around the gym for the 'Fitness Test' thing, a WIWOL chum was on an AV-8 exchange with the ooh-rah mreenkaw over on the US west coast. One day, some crewcut individual with a neck like a birthday cake asked him whether he wished to accompany the squadron on some PT run, doubtless chanting the same bolleaux as in 'Full Metal Jacket'....

He adopted a studious, hurt-looking expression before explaining "A run? A RUN?? Absolutely not! My dear chap, British officers don't run - it would panic the men!"....

:ok:

[Easy Street]

To those advocating wholesale "integration" by those undertaking exchange tours: in days gone by, when very short hairstyles were considered un-officerlike, would you have expected an incoming "high and tight"-styled US exchange officer to grow his hair out to a more respectable length? Of course not. It would have been very rude to have asked, and it would have removed some of the cultural "texture" that exchanges are meant to foster. The linked story is directly analogous: the only discourtesy was on the part of the American general, who should have established that he was on firm disciplinary ground before broaching such a subject.

[BEagle]

...would you have expected an incoming "high and tight"-styled US exchange officer to grow his hair out to a more respectable length?

Sir, Hell No, Sir! It would have reduced our opportunities to take the pi$$.....

There was a USMC exchange navigator on 228OCU when I did the F-4 course. Thoroughly nice chap - but he was rather taken aback when we were about to have some visit, for which B*****d B*ll had decreed No1 HD would be worn, when one of his rather rude staff colleagues asked "Does that mean you'll have to turn up in your Glen Miller lookalike outfit?".

[PlasticCabDriver]

Any similar request to a US officer on exchange to conform to UK dress regs would be met with a swift "Sir, No, Sir!" and backed up the hilt by his national CoC, the general should have done a bit of digging about other nations regulations before going off on one.

We had enough trouble getting one of our USAF exchange officers permission to wear UK AEA, and he was thoroughly onside, it was the US CoC who were bring obstructive.

[West Coast]

He adopted a studious, hurt-looking expression before explaining "A run? A RUN?? Absolutely not! My dear chap, British officers don't run - it would panic the men!"....

Or didn't want to show off his level of conditioning, or lack thereof. Heaven forbid he should integrate with his host unit.

Signed mreenkaw

[Tankertrashnav]

As Beagle said - this was back in the 70s when we somehow managed to fly, and carry out out our other duties without attempting to emulate Olympic athletes. I believe a similar attitude to excessive physical fitness training was prevalent amongst an earlier generation who somehow managed to get through the Battle of Britain without doing anything more strenuous than sprinting 30 yards to their aircraft, and lifting a pint in the local pub at the end of the day.

His story reminded me of a former cavalry officer who by some mischance found himself in the RAF Regiment. He wore the flowing locks favoured by the cavalry, and one day his boss gently suggested it was time for a haircut. Adopting a hurt expression he replied, "But sir, the men have their hair cut, officers wash theirs".

[West Coast]

As Beagle said - this was back in the 70s when we somehow managed to fly, and carry out out our other duties without attempting to emulate Olympic athletes.

Being able to run a couple of miles doesn't qualify one for the Olympics. Going out a running a few miles is a nod towards staying in shape. If you can't see an advantage to that, then I doubt I can explain. Aversion to exercise aside, it goes back to integrating ones self, you know, when in Rome...

[John Eacott]

Must admit trying to think of an 'arse' of an exchange officer and admit I can't think of one.

We were blessed with a Kapitänleutnant on exchange to 824 Vertical Pursuit Group, to gain Sea King experience when they were introducing the SK for SAR. Kapitänleutnant is a senior lieutenant (4+ years), but with the rank rings of a lieutenant commander which he accepted with glee and Teutonic efficiency. Very tedious, and certainly not an advertisement for the German Navy.

Notable was leaving a tyre impression on the 2nd step down off the flight deck when doing a winch transfer to a Leander: not much except for an entry in the Line Book had he not been so adamant that it wasn't him/it didn't happen :ugh:

[reynoldsno1]

Spent many a happy time with USN, RAAF, RN and Canadian exchanges guys on the kipper fleet. Funny thing was that no-one ever asked why an RAF officer was sporting a full set, as I did. I wasn't the only one, either....

[jindabyne]

And why does a General become embroiled in such trivia?

[Pontius Navigator]

And my knees are knackered.

'Twas a time when most sensible V-Force crew carried 14 days rations, would have come in handy had we had to hide in a fighter trench for a fortnight.

Remember our famous POW duo, not like a racing snake and one built for comfy. Being a racing snake didn't help.

[downsizer]

And why does a General become embroiled in such trivia?

The same reason the hat police go mental somewhere like KAF or BSN!

[Pontius Navigator]

The same reason the hat police go mental somewhere like KAF or BSN!
Do you still need topis?

In ASI only the gp capt and 3 sqn ldr wore caps

[57mm]

The RSAF aircrew, especially the more orthodox of them, always had problems with mask seals, though they would never admit it.

[MACH2NUMBER]

Courtney, I agree with you 95%, but during my exchange tour there were one or 2 issues with my USAF hosts. I was requested to wear USAF wings, to which I objected, because I earned RAF wings and was/am quite proud of them. Eventually they agreed I should wear an RAF flight suit with appropriate USAF unit patches.
They also asked me to wear experience stars (hours flown on fighters and shown on the left sleeve of the flight suit) I did not like this much either, but when the Wing Commander found I had more stars than him, they again took my view!
They also did not like the look of RAF flying boots, but when I developed a first rate set of blisters trying to wear in their rock stiff footies, again they agreed ours were more comfortable.
Never had long hair or a set of any type so no issues there.
Overall, when there were any minor problems common sense always prevailed.
Great tour, happy memories.

[Wander00]

I understand from a friend who did an exchange tour the length of grass in the lawn could be a bigger issue than hair length or facial fungus

[MACH2NUMBER]

Ah Yes Wanderer,
I neglected to add this slight disagreement to my list; however it was sorted out eventually!!

[Wander00]

As a slight aside, I wonder why people seem to have problems with my nom-de -plume- it is Wander00, which would normally be spelt "Wanderoo", which is a lion-tailed macaque (Macaca silenus), an Old World monkey endemic to the Western Ghats of South India. It is also the name of a boat I had years ago. But the nom-de-plume is "Wander00", not "Wander", nor "Wanderer". Thanks.............W

[Brian 48nav]

I have often wandered about your nom de plume!

[BEagle]

Nom de PPruNe, surely?

I understand from a friend who did an exchange tour the length of grass in the lawn could be a bigger issue than hair length or facial fungus

Is that some obscure sexual euphemism.....:\

[superplum]

As a lowly engineer (Joke!), I mistakenly interpreted it as "Wanderful" !

:O

[Wander00]

Beag - no friend who was my last staish, and now lives an hour or so east of me here was on exchange and apparently the Americans were pretty anal about the length of grass on the lawn in case of fires. Maybe it should go to the "Weber" thread

[BEagle]

...apparently the Americans were pretty anal about the length of grass on the lawn in case of fires.

He should have adopted the same tactic as some chaps on the F-4 course ahead of mine! They were sharing a house in Coningsby village and in the early summer, an anonymous complaint came through their letterbox, stating that if they didn't cut the grass on their front lawn, the Stn Cdr would be informed...

Who was B*****d B**l...:uhoh:

Being U/T F-4 mates, they thought up a suitable response. Thus VERY early one morning an ancient ATCO mower, which they'd borrowed from one of the staff navs, spluttered into life emitting clouds of oily smoke. The thing's silencer had obviously known better days as it made a most satisfying racket as every last square inch of the lawn was given a very careful and thorough trim.

Silence then settled.

Until they started on the back lawn half an hour later....:E

Oddly enough, they never received another complaint!

[Hueymeister]

When in Rome....

[salad-dodger]

As a slight aside, I wonder why people seem to have problems with my nom-de -plume- it is Wander00, which would normally be spelt "Wanderoo", which is a lion-tailed macaque (Macaca silenus), an Old World monkey endemic to the Western Ghats of South India. It is also the name of a boat I had years ago. But the nom-de-plume is "Wander00", not "Wander", nor "Wanderer". Thanks.............W
Brilliant!

Did you lead a sheltered life wanderwho?

S-D

[O-P]

First, I was forced to serve with a RAAF pilot on (x) sqn,...well 5 if you must know ,the less said about that individual the better.

Beags, I think we went one better. After weeks of complaints about our grass, and threats from a civilian to report us, we returned from the Gulf. I cut our grass with the loudest thing I could find, then sprayed their grass with Round-Up.

No more complaints.

[Sandy Parts]

if you are away from homeplate, shouldn't you be more worried about someone else 'moving your lawn' than the length of your grass? :E
Re exchanges, always admired those who flew with foreign types (people and jets) and especially seeing as they seemed to mostly rise to the top while there. Maybe this bloke wasn't making enough of a splash so thought this might raise his profile? (certainly did that...:suspect:)

[Pontius Navigator]

NSandy Parts, that apparently was the reason no helpful neighbour would cut the wifey' s growth at Tidworth in case hubby thought someone was making hay.

[MACH2NUMBER]

O-P,
Was that the Ozy lad on 5 who often won the social hand grenade award?

[O-P]

M2N,

That Guy got every anti-social award in the known to man. The Sqn sighed a collective thank f@#K when he left...His RAAF replacement was an utter star...only none could pronounce his name... Heard he went far in the RAAF.

[gopher01]

As one who wore a Tash throughout 30 years in Her Majesty's RAF I had at various times some interesting discussions about the styles of moustache that could be worn as the regs only quote a minimum, i.e., the entire upper lip must be unshaven, presumably to head off any A...F H....R styles, therefore leading to some discussion at times on the maximum lenghth involved. I do have some photos of my upper lip in the 60s in Cyprus in the popular Viva Zapata style, with a good tan very Mexican, this at the time was kept by explaining that it was an inverted handlebar moustache, and I got away with it for a while, I was on the M.U. which was a world of its on!
Whilst on the Herc as a G.E. we had a captain who had a full set for medical reasons, seems he had no problem with it and oxygen masks, mind you the only time Herc crew wore oxy masks was for a quick puff in the morning to get the brain back on speed!

[gerry smith]

A well known Flt.Lt. at Leuchars, in the 50s said, "Why cultivate it on your upper lip, when it grows wild in your afterburner?" ( We didn't have afterburners then of course) Gerry Smith

[NutLoose]

Beags, I think we went one better. After weeks of complaints about our grass, and threats from a civilian to report us, we returned from the Gulf. I cut our grass with the loudest thing I could find, then sprayed their grass with Round-Up.Departing Halton everyone got up to jolly japes and usually ended up paying for them, to get around this we managed to acquire a sizeable amount of waste AVTUR and carefully spelling out the Dicip's name, inscribed the lawn outside his office with XXXXX is a cnut, true to form over a week or so after we had departed the grass died back to be read by all and sundry from the surrounding blocks and the said unimpressed individual, who found after re turfing it still showed up :) I have a picture sent from the upper floor of the block somewhere.

[PersonFromPorlock]

As a former USAF officer, I remember with no pleasure at all the period after the Vietnam war when the only standards USAF (or at least SAC) seemed to have were haircuts and shoeshines; the mission was let go to hell. So I am inclined to be in sympathy with someone who gives them a bit of a fight on appearances.