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Dangly Bits
25th Aug 2016, 03:34
Mark Skidmore just resigned!

Go

glenb
25th Aug 2016, 03:41
Is it true?

Mitch Hell
25th Aug 2016, 03:48
It sure is.

LexAir
25th Aug 2016, 03:48
Hope so Glen. This is what he said yesterday in the CASA newsletter: "I renew my commitment to making real changes to CASA". Maybe that is why he resigned!

dhavillandpilot
25th Aug 2016, 03:56
Before all the arm chair pilots start, just remember the old saying

"Careful what you wish for, it may come true"

We'll probably spend the next six to 12 months in never never land with all those entrenched CASA employees pushing their barrow and over turning any changes that have been made.

Popgun
25th Aug 2016, 04:03
It would seem so:

Skidmore resigns as CASA CEO and director of aviation safety | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/08/skidmore-resigns-as-casa-ceo-and-director-of-aviation-safety/)

PG

Popgun
25th Aug 2016, 04:10
Australian Aviation has the story:

Skidmore resigns as CASA CEO and director of aviation safety | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/08/skidmore-resigns-as-casa-ceo-and-director-of-aviation-safety/)

After only a little over 18 months in the role it would appear that there might be an unwritten back story.

Personal are the reasons quoted....any rumours otherwise?

Am I being too naive to hope the next Director might not be a career ex-RAAFie and possess a keen interest in fostering aviation beyond the Airlines?

PG

PS. I am not anti-RAAF. I am an ex-RAAFie myself.

Stanwell
25th Aug 2016, 04:13
So, even he had to throw his hands into the air and walk out.
What's that say?

Cloudee
25th Aug 2016, 04:14
RAAF officers get moved on about every two years. He hasn't even managed that. To cite personal reasons for the resignation is pretty poor form. If you can't commit, don't take the job.

Stanwell
25th Aug 2016, 04:17
I do think it's time that someone put a fire-hose through that place.
Just my ever-so-humble, of course.

Capt Fathom
25th Aug 2016, 04:25
Deserting the sinking ship comes to mind! :=

BuzzBox
25th Aug 2016, 04:35
Official announcement from CASA:

https://www.casa.gov.au/media-release/resignation-civil-aviation-safety-authority-casa-chief-executive-officer-and-director

Lead Balloon
25th Aug 2016, 04:44
Fire hose?

Even a thermo-nuclear device might not be enough to completely eradicate the industrial-strength bureaucracy that parts of CASA have become.

Dangly Bits
25th Aug 2016, 04:48
Maybe he just hit Platinum Frequent Flyer Lifetime and thought it would be good to spend those FF points now.

I hear he did a lot of travel overseas.

Fantome
25th Aug 2016, 04:48
from this arvo's CASA press release -

Mr Skidmore will continue in the role until October so as to allow for a smooth leadership transition.

The Board is considering interim acting arrangements which will be announced shortly. A thorough domestic and international recruitment process to select a new CEO will now commence. This process is expected to take six to nine months.

If they are to recruit new blood from overseas it had better be someone from New Zealand or the USA, if that someone has runs on the board in the CAA or the FAA , respectively, in administering major restructuring of the regulator where the contender worked, or at least a significant hand in seeing rational, fair and ethical application of the rules, and a code of honour, not drawn up in tortuous language, to be made standard for all employees of the Authority. (Maybe applicants should have to show knowledge of the workings of the Department of Civil Aviation when headed by the late Sir Donald George Anderson, and an awareness of the mine of critical information accessible within the Pacific: General Aviation , and the Australia/New Zealand & the Pacific forums on PPRuNe.)

The Zenith
25th Aug 2016, 04:49
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(http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Monsters/Lernaean_Hydra/lernaean_hydra.html) was a monster in Greek mythology. It had many heads and every time someone would cut off one of them, two more heads would grow out of the stump. It was one of the offspring of Typhon (http://www.greekmythology.com/Other_Gods/Typhoeus/typhoeus.html) and Echidna (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Creatures/Echidna/echidna.html), the father and mother of all monsters (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Monsters/monsters.html) respectively. It lived in the lake Lerna (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Places/Lerna/lerna.html) in the region of Argolid in the Peloponnese.

Band a Lot
25th Aug 2016, 04:54
Well that was swift, I wounder what the real story is?

Some major thing about to be announced discovered?

YPJT
25th Aug 2016, 04:55
For god sake, whoever appoints the DAS please take note of the mess Skidmore and his predecessors have left with our industry almost a basket case.

Dangly Bits
25th Aug 2016, 05:00
Mike Smith!

Lead Balloon
25th Aug 2016, 05:07
Mr Skidmore seemed to me to be doing, very well, the usual job of doing what he was told by the people who run CASA. Then he side-lined one of them. But I'm sure that's just pure coincidence...

Anyway, moving forward and on a completely different subject ...

Having practically run the organisation for the last 15 or so years, I'm hoping JA will finally be appointed to the position that nominally runs the organisation. JA can talk the talk on aviation safety with the best of them. And by all accounts he and the Murky Machiavellian get on really, really well.

All in the interests of the safety of air navigation of course.

FPDO
25th Aug 2016, 05:09
DeHavilland Pilot, You seem to have some good " inside" knowledge.........

Lead Balloon
25th Aug 2016, 05:12
You don't have to be an insider to predict the repetition of history.

Left 270
25th Aug 2016, 05:16
What about JB? He at least seems to be trying.

Godot64
25th Aug 2016, 05:20
Leaving after not much more than 18 months into a 5 year appointment for "personal reasons ... including wanting to explore a number of new opportunities", sounds more like 'pushed', rather than 'jumped'.

PoppaJo
25th Aug 2016, 05:35
Can we please hire someone with experience this time around? Past Pilots or Air Marshall's need not apply.

They should ban anyone who has worked in the RAAF from running companies. M Staib was another classic ex RAAF :D

mostlytossas
25th Aug 2016, 05:44
He would have been pushed alright. With all the turmoil going on in the industry and costs sending GA broke it was only a matter of time before the Government or maybe the crossbenchers via the government started a cleanout. Had to happen and I would expect more departures before it all settles down. About time I reckon. I only hope the next one makes decisions on economic reality. No military,or career public servants please.

Lead Balloon
25th Aug 2016, 05:53
All of that turmoil isn't actually Mr Skidmore's fault. It may be that it finally dawned on him that the pieces of silver weren't sufficient compensation for being the scapegoat for a mess he couldn't possibly tidy up.

josephfeatherweight
25th Aug 2016, 06:09
I agree - he inherited the mess left by his predecessor. If he left on his own accord, that's a shame - would've liked to have seen him give it a better go...

Trevor the lover
25th Aug 2016, 06:13
lets give the boofhead from the west ago. After all, GT is the expert on everything, particularly when he puts that stern serious face on,

Lead Balloon
25th Aug 2016, 06:15
Might as well be GT as anyone else.

Lead Balloon
25th Aug 2016, 06:20
[H]e inherited the mess left by his predecessor. ...His predecessor inherited the mess left by his predecessor's predecessor. And so on.

Each has contributed to the mess, not necessarily because they wanted to, but rather because they didn't have the knowledge and skills necessary to tidy it up.

aroa
25th Aug 2016, 07:39
Stanny...just bring the fire....forget the hose.

There we go...as predicted ...nothing but a skid mark on the floor
Too much heat in the kitchen???

If JA/ Dr Discrepancy aka Hoodoo Voodoo gets the nod then the atomic option is a must
He doesnt pass the smell test

Where's that Royal Commission or Judicial Inquiry into the whole rotten edifice to let the GA industry hang all CaSa's filthy washing on the line.

Sunfish
25th Aug 2016, 07:44
I think we should wish AVM. Skidmore all the best. My guess would be that the poor " Customer satisfaction survey" results followed by the comparison to the latest American air safety audit results were the last straw. To be fair to the good AVM, he does not have the experience necessary to lead CASA through the complete restructure and gutting that is required, anymore than Stalb did at AsA. This is not a criticism of either of them. In addition neither would relish the stress and tension restructuring in the face of bureaucratic resistance at their time of life.

I will not repeat my previous postings on what needs to be done - rewriting the Act to require the regulator to foster aviation in all its forms = jobs, investment, growth etc. Nor the deliberate destruction of the CASA management culture and its replacement with a real customer focused set of values and the FAA rule set.

As for the airlines..they regulate themselves CASA doesn't have the capability to regulate Qantas, etc. and hasn't for at least Thirty years or more.

It is going to be interesting to see the consultant brief for a new head. No one with any brains will take the job unless they understand that this job is going to require bureaucratic infighting skills of the highest order coupled with ruthlessness and the intelligence to drive through a massive change agenda against deeply entrenched opposition.

Needless to say if the Minister wants a "steady as she goes" safe pair of hands to make everything bad go away, then we will get another retired AVM., or worse, a female narcissist who will rejoice in taking us from bad to worse in her lust for power and money........and that folks is unfortunately as real possibility considering gender diversity and all. We could get a perfumed princess, a real black widow spider who knows nothing about aviation at all and proceeds to make things even worse than they are today.

Hasherucf
25th Aug 2016, 07:58
Met him once , seemed a nice guy . The industry issues are huge and I think he genuinely wanted change but his subordinates seem to be the old guard.

bankrunner
25th Aug 2016, 08:19
rewriting the Act to require the regulator to foster aviation in all its forms = jobs, investment, growth etc.

In terms of regulators that promote and foster the industries under their supervision, it's not like the federal government haven't got a number of excellent examples to work from.

Take ACMA for example, and the functions set out in their Act. "Advise and assist the radiocommunications community" and "advise and assist the telecommunications industry" are quite literally at the top of the list.

From my extensive experience in doing business with them, those are functions that they take very seriously; they prefer to educate those who break the rules, and are reluctant to commence enforcement proceedings against an offender unless it's truly warranted.

thorn bird
25th Aug 2016, 08:31
Oh Lordy, the halls of Fort Fumble must be like a skating rink.
(Despicable me) MrDaks minions slipping and sliding all over the place
on spilt blood each attempting to land the killer stab in the back.
I sort of feel a sorry for poor old Skids, an apparent nice guy but a tad naive perhaps.
No idea the malicious, malignant cretans he was attempting to herd, were like a bunch of cats on ice, devoid of probity, or conscience.
The big question is as Dehav. says "careful what you wish for", Skidmore may well have been out of his depth dealing with the entrenched bureaucracy. I just hope Jeff Boyd and the board can now finally start the process of true reform, clean out the dross and allow our industry to rebuild itself and realise the potential we all know it is capable of.

allthecoolnamesarego
25th Aug 2016, 08:42
or worse, a female narcissist who will rejoice in taking us from bad to worse in her lust for power and money........and that folks is unfortunately as real possibility considering gender diversity and all. We could get a perfumed princess, a real black widow spider who knows nothing about aviation at all and proceeds to make things even worse than they are today

Sunfish,
Can you pronounce 'misogynist' ?

gerry111
25th Aug 2016, 08:56
Perhaps AOPA's imminent petition struck the fear of God in him?

Arm out the window
25th Aug 2016, 09:06
I was just going to say, he probably wanted to remove the perceived conflict of interest so he could join AOPA again!

IsDon
25th Aug 2016, 09:33
Sunfish,
Can you pronounce 'misogynist' ?

I'll bet he can now, since you kindly spelt it for him.:suspect:

Lead Balloon
25th Aug 2016, 09:47
The paradox is that a person capable of doing the DAS job correctly can never be chosen.

A person capable of doing the job correctly would realise that CASA is not competent to run, and has a conflict of interest in running, the regulatory reform program. That person would insist that the Minister and the Department did their job.

Given that the Minister and the Department decide who the DAS will be, they are always going to choose someone who's silly enough to pretend, or is so naive as to believe, that s/he is in control of, and therefore responsible for, something that CASA is not competent to do and cannot do.

The regulatory mess that Australia is in is nearly as much a straightjacket for the DAS as it is for the industry. The only partly-effective tools that the DAS has to change anything substantially are:

(1) the exemption making power, and

(2) the ability to influence the policy that drives new rules.

However, here's the problem: To use those tools effectively, you have to understand the detail and effect of the entirety of the current regulatory Frankenstein. CA Act, 1988 regs, 1998 regs, building regs, fees regs, CAOs, MOSs, exemptions, Chicago Convention, Carriers' liability legislation, Air Services Act and regs, Transport Safety Investigation Act and regs ....

I don't think there's anyone on the planet, other than perhaps JA, who understands the entirety and detail of the current regulatory Frankenstein. An ex-RAAF pilot might understand the flight crew licensing CAO and the rules of the air, and that's about it.

This means that the DAS can have all of the best intentions, but s/he has no choice but to hope that others have the knowledge, competence and authority to implement all the high-sounding ideas about simplification and risk-based and evidence-based regulation and red tape reduction and responsiveness etc etc. The fact is that those around him/her in CASA do not have the collective knowledge, competence and authority to do much of anything other than create more complexity. Further, they have a personal interest in creating more complexity. It justifies their existence.

And before anyone suggests that (2) is the solution, I note that a one sentence good idea at DAS level becomes a 10 page set of instructions a couple of levels down from the DAS, then becomes 100 pages of draft regulations and offences out of the Office of Parliamentary Counsel, which generates a dozen unintended consequences requiring 100 pages of further instructions...

20 years of that kind of simplification gets you exactly where Australia is today.

All of that said, my opinion is that the CVD issue was a test that Mr Skidmore failed.

Miserably.

It was in his power to decide a valid 'third level test' instead of a test that even the inventors and "experts" conceded does not simulate an operational situation. An objective assessment of the evidence and risks would have justified that decision.

A two sentence memo with the DAS's signature would have done it.

Instead, he listened to the whispering scaremongers.

glenb
25th Aug 2016, 10:39
Unfortunately CASA has a track record of Media Releases that are nothing less than 100% BS. Refer the reason for the Part 61 delay.

The DAS has resigned half way through a major program that was beginning to move. He appeared to have rallied the troops and put fire in the belly. It was a fast changing organisation, and for the better.

Someone in that Organisation owes Industry some facts and some truth. Too many Businesses are hanging on by their nails. This is serious.

I call on whoever is responsible for Media Releases within CASA to either start acting with honesty and Integrity in your dealings with Industry or step aside. We are entitled to the TRUTH. We need to know what is happening. Is this a change of direction. Is it a push, is it a jump, had you planned on this, what will be the direction over coming months.

Right now CASA must be absolutely hanging their head in shame. This is now so far beyond any "Yes Minister" episode, its an absolute blight on the Liberal Parties ability to run good Government.

I really cannot believe this fiasco.

Quote from Dick Smith: "get out of aviation" Not so ridiculous is it!

Sunfish
25th Aug 2016, 11:21
allthecoolnamesarego; I can spell mysogenist I know quite a few excellent female senior business leaders who have taught me a thing or two.

however i also know a few shockers of the female management variety that got promoted way beyond their abilities by boards and governments who were scratching the bottom of the barrel for female management talent.

one I worked for was a liar, fraud and cheat (literally) who cost her organization around $250 million before she was eased out....and she had an undeserved OA to boot. if we get one of these God help you. look up narcissistic personality disorder and business psychopaths and you will see what I mean.

to put that another way, there are worse people than retiredAVM's out there and my experience is that the proportion of female senior management psychopaths is higher than 50%. my building an aircraft is partially therapy after working for one for a few years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace

aussiexpat
25th Aug 2016, 13:05
Skidmore's legacy was to restructure CASA with 3 main divisions, Aviation Group, Sustainability Group and Stakeholder Engagement Group. What a load of crap which resulted in 800 CASA staff now having about 25% of staff with an actual aviation background. How is 'stakeholder engagement' and 'sustainability' deemed far more important (do these titles even exist in any other organisation - sounds more like damage control and spin doctoring rather than doing the job right not requiring this).

The Government should have enforced the organisation structure recommended in the ASR Report, which was a lot different than the Skidmore model. Or CASA should have just used the ICAO model which is simply, Director, Operations Division, Airworthiness Division (any other staff are for support in HR, Payroll and IT).

gerry111
25th Aug 2016, 13:10
Sunfish wrote: "I can spell mysogenist.."

I think most prefer "misogynist". :(

binglebailey
25th Aug 2016, 13:23
Sunfish,
Can you pronounce 'misogynist' ?

Typical defensive response; Sunfish is spot on and about time some of us have the balls to stand up and tell it how it is....

Godot64
25th Aug 2016, 13:52
Uh, while you're up there on your high horse, Aussie, you might want to use that view to have a look at the FAA head office structure and compare it to CASA's org chart. Drill down a bit to account for the size and additional responsibilities of the FAA (Commercial Space Transportation probably not taking up vast amounts of CASA's time) and they aren't too dissimilar. Wouldn't be at all surprised if that's where the bare bones of the CASA restructure were sourced.

As for the oft heard complaint that too many CASA staff don't have actual aviation backgrounds, how many would be enough? A third? One half? All of them? Should the DAS' executive assistant have a ATPL?

Fact is, the majority of government departments and authorities are staffed by a lot of people that aren't, and never have been, in the jobs of the people they serve. The Department of Agriculture isn't completely staffed by farmers. The Department of Education isn't full of teachers. And I have it on good authority that the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet DOESN'T HAVE ONE SINGLE FORMER PRIME MINISTER WORKING IN IT! :eek:

You don't need most of the people in a government authority to have experience working in the industry they serve. Just the right people. In the right jobs. And THAT's what CASA seems to have been lacking for some time now. The Government takes the advice of the regulator - that's what the regulator is there for - unless it has been demonstrated that that advice is poor. Seems like we haven't managed to do that yet.

It's going to be an interesting few months.

Stanwell
25th Aug 2016, 15:00
"It's going to be an interesting few months."
Well, let's see.
One could only hope to hear the sounds of "much wailing and gnashing of teeth" from fort fumble.
I somehow doubt we'll be hearing that anytime soon, though
When a tick has embedded itself deeply within a wrinkle, it's quite difficult to remove.
.

Clare Prop
25th Aug 2016, 17:18
Surely they have an effective change management policy for when a key member of personnel leaves like we all have to in our manuals? (sarc)

Or how about like us operators they could just simply have to cease operations and have no income until they find someone stupid enough to take on the poison chalice.

I have seen more incompetence from CASA in the last few months than in the 20 plus years I have held an AOC.

Sunfish
25th Aug 2016, 18:30
godot64:

As for the oft heard complaint that too many CASA staff don't have actual aviation backgrounds, how many would be enough? A third? One half? All of them? Should the DAS' executive assistant have a ATPL?


Actually yes, it would help! it would allow the EA to screen and filter all the crap from reaching the boss and send it where it needs to go.

it is axiomatic in successful organizations that decision making is driven as far down the organization as close to the coal face as possible. That means you need qualified, experienced people - pilots and engineers, at the front line.

They need to be managed by similarly qualified and experienced people, or the poor bastards on the frontline will have to translate and explain every issue they bring to their boss for decision or review. And so on upwards.

To put that another way, populate a command or decision tree with people from a variety of professions - lawyers, arts graduates with history majors, economists with no flying experience and watch the issues get garbled as they go up the chain.

this is the very disease that is killing our entire economy - the belief that anyone can manage anything without having first hand experience of the thing, if only they apply "scientific" management principles acquired via an MBA.

...Hence my concern that there will be a temptation to appoint an aviationally marginally qualified female to help Canberra achieve its oft stated goal of gender equity.

Lead Balloon
25th Aug 2016, 22:29
But being a pilot or an engineer does not confer experience relevant to the management of a government regulatory authority and administration of a regulatory system. Being a pilot or an engineer might make you more efficient at "it", but "it" involves skills that no amount of flying or engineering will ever confer.

Fantome
25th Aug 2016, 22:48
Lead Balloon #42

The paradox is that a person capable of doing the DAS job correctly can never be chosen.

A person capable of doing the job correctly would realise that CASA is not competent to run, and has a conflict of interest in running, the regulatory reform program. That person would insist that the Minister and the Department did their job.

Given that the Minister and the Department decide who the DAS will be, they are always going to choose someone who's silly enough to pretend, or is so naive as to believe, that s/he is in control of, and therefore responsible for, something that CASA is not competent to do and cannot do.

These astute observations, plus what follows in the post, are deserving of the closest 'study and digest'. In this entire thread, thus far, there is sufficient cool-headed logic, based sometimes on bitter experience, to warrant categorising as 'expert feedback'. How this resource can be employed to the benefit of the regulator and the sectors that are overseen, and those employed therein, might take the wisdom of Solomon. (and that's not Solomon Grundy.)

FPDO
25th Aug 2016, 23:53
..................................................

Clare Prop
26th Aug 2016, 02:43
The "action plan" reads like a guide to Wank Word Bingo, Sir Humphrey would be proud. No wonder the people who are paying for all this, the so-called "stakeholders" are getting more and more fed up with it.

CASA Relationship Survey shows Low Satisfaction Levels - Australian Flying (http://www.australianflying.com.au/latest/casa-relationship-survey-shows-low-satisfaction-levels?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter%2019th%20August%202016%20-%20The%20Last%20Minute%20Hitch%20CASA%20Flight%20Design%20La chie%20Renmark%20RBAR%20Friday%20Flying%20Video%20Bad%20Land ings&utm_content=Newsletter%2019th%20August%202016%20-%20The%20Last%20Minute%20Hitch%20CASA%20Flight%20Design%20La chie%20Renmark%20RBAR%20Friday%20Flying%20Video%20Bad%20Land ings+CID_b24dde437ed02edf723113ea91994fdb&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=CASA%20Relationship%20Survey%20shows%20Low%20Satisf action%20Levels)

Some people in CLARC that can do basic clerical work would be a good start. It's got worse and worse since things were moved from the regional offices to Canberra.

onetrack
26th Aug 2016, 03:11
Keywords: Reshuffling. Deckchairs. Titanic.

Sunfish
26th Aug 2016, 04:33
LB:

But being a pilot or an engineer does not confer experience relevant to the management of a government regulatory authority and administration of a regulatory system. Being a pilot or an engineer might make you more efficient at "it", but "it" involves skills that no amount of flying or engineering will ever confer.

With the greatest respect LB this is completely and utterly wrong. The entire essence of Weberian bureaucracy as applied in the Westminster system is a rigid system of procedures and authorities that is transparent and designed to be strictly followed by a public servant with very limited discretion. There is no formal "training" to be a public servant - anyone can do it, just follow the instructions on the packet.

Even me, Sunfish, passed as a credible public servant for Two years, and I was initiating, handing out, and managing Government grant money in the hundreds of thousands. All you do is follow the written procedures to the letter!

This very issue is at the core of my disbelief in the incompetence of CASA when I first heard of it - multiple interpretations of the regulations by sundry CASA staff, capriciously applied. I couldn't believe what I was reading! There is no room for "nuance", "art", or "divination" in the application of bureaucratic principles. To allow such nonsense is what causes the capriciousness and maybe corruption within CASA!

There needs to be simple rules like the FAA set which anyone with the basic training of a common policeman, pilot or engineer can safely interpret and apply. Public service is not rocket science!

Of course at Ministerial level it is a different game - Sir Humphrey does exist, and there is a need for highly trained generalists to design policies and systems but for the folk in the trenches, they should be following simple procedures and instructions.

Designed by genius for execution by idiots as the saying goes.

VR-HFX
26th Aug 2016, 05:35
From the 1930's...although would probably have made a more accurate press release.


Those who are clever and industrious I appoint to the General Staff. Use can under certain circumstances be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy qualifies for the highest leadership posts. He has the requisite nerves and the mental clarity for difficult decisions. But whoever is stupid and industrious must be got rid of, for he is too dangerous.

Pastor of Muppets
26th Aug 2016, 06:13
Ok, ok, ok!
Time to step in and sort this mess.
I'll need a paper shredder, a pair of size 10 Blunnies (for kicking flunkies out the door)
And finally, I'll need to approach the NZCAA, hat in hand, with a polite request for help.
Easy peasy.

Chronic Snoozer
26th Aug 2016, 06:44
Those that can, do. Those that can't, regulate.

thorn bird
26th Aug 2016, 09:21
The proof of the pudding???

This is a strictly ..... mathematical viewpoint... and it goes like this:

What Makes 100% ????

What does it mean to give MORE than 100% ????

Ever wonder about those people who say they are giving more than 100% ??? We have all been to those meetings where someone wants you to give over 100%.

How about achieving 103% ???

What makes up 100% in life ???

Here's a little mathematical formula that might help you answer these questions:

If:
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

Is represented as:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26.

Then:

H-A-R-D-W-O-R-K
8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11 = 98%

And

K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E
11+14+15+23+12+5+4+7+5 = 96%

But ,

A-T-T-I-T-U-D-E
1+20+20+9+20+21+4+5 = 100%

And,

B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T
2+21+12+12+19+8+9+20 = 103%

AND, look how far ass kissing will take you.

A-S-S-K-I-S-S-I-N-G
1+19+19+11+9+19+19+9+14+7 = 118%

So, one can conclude with mathematical certainty, that while Hard work and Knowledge will get you close, and Attitude will get you there.

Its the Bullshit and Ass Kissing that will put you over the top and CAsA are the living proof of this!!!!

Now you know why MrDak's minions are where they are! There will be a lot of chapped lips at Fort Fumble in the coming weeks.

Have you ever seen a better explanation for the disfunction of CAsA than this formula???

Except how true it is.....across the board in Australia's public service.... service it aint, the huge pay rises plus the 15% super is the obscene manifestation of why there needs to be a redefinition of SERVICE, closely followed by COMPETENCE. Why, if you choose to become a bureaucrat, does that entitle you to be entitled to reward and conditions way beyond those who's taxes provide your award. I know the Pollies are just glove puppets or talking heads for their Sir Humphries, but if the illusion that its the politicians who actually control anything is to be maintained. The Sir Humphries being remunerated double what their alleged bosses are paid sort of knocks holes in that Hypothesis

Apologies to purist mathematicians, I was never was much good at two times two.

Arm out the window
26th Aug 2016, 10:31
:ok:Great time for all the Sunday morning experts to put their hands up now! Get stuck in, apply for the job and fix everything, perfect opportunity.

wishiwasupthere
26th Aug 2016, 11:00
GPO Box 2005
Canberra ACT 2601

There ya go Sunfish/Leads/et al.

Chuck a resume in. By the sounds of it you're more than qualified, just ask you.

Eddie Dean
26th Aug 2016, 11:35
Unconfirmed Rumour from Rumour Control is that AVM (Ret) Skidmore is to nominate Sunfish as his preferred replacement.
Press conference rumoured to take place soon or so rumour has it

Fantome
26th Aug 2016, 11:41
Asskissing scores with 118% effort, whereas with the good old common or garden approach where STRINE is spoke, it's called arselicking.
For which you lose ten percentage points and have to get by with 108%.

Sunfish
26th Aug 2016, 20:22
sorry, I don't have the necessary ass kissing technique.

Sunfish
26th Aug 2016, 22:10
As I've said ad nauseam before, any restructuring of CASA needs to go hand in hand with amendment to the Act. The amendments should require CASA to take account of the health of the aviation sect (jobs, investment and growth). The regulation and enforcement sides need to be separated, etc., etc. The FAA rule set, education, non punitive enforcement and all that other stuff on the wish list then naturally falls out of the amendment of the Act.

Such an event requires the direct involvement of Department of PM & C in drafting and oversight, otherwise the intentions will be perverted by the usual culprits.

A new DAS can then go in with a mandate for change and, assisted by a small team from PM&C and perhaps a respected overseas expert, can start the necessary, bloody and stressful (for everyone, especially CASA employees) process of cutting up and reassembling the bits of CASA. This will involve the departure of most of the senior executives, reassessment of what is left, the muzzling of the lawyers, etc., etc.

Of course if a new DAS joins CASA without a mandate from the Minister backed by Cabinet to do this, well, they deserve what they are going to get and it won't be pleasant, as Stalb and Skidmore have found out.

Restructure is not a job for the fainthearted and unless you are a narcissist you are going to find it painful to have to terminate careers, etc. A Fifty something who is what is termed "A hard hearted empath" is what is required in this role.

gerry111
27th Aug 2016, 09:36
Perhaps for the next DAS they could try a "Six Sigma" Blackbelt..

alphacentauri
27th Aug 2016, 11:08
Perhaps for the next DAS they could try a "Six Sigma" Blackbelt..

It doesn't always come across on forums.....but I hope to god you're being sarcastic??

....cause L6S works/ed so well at Airservices....not:yuk::yuk:

gerry111
27th Aug 2016, 11:19
alphacentauri, Rest assured that was very much tongue in cheek! :E

aroa
27th Aug 2016, 12:39
Arent you folk aware that in the Fort there is some serious "restructuring" and "renewal programmes" (sic) happening. Some "rewriting" even. !! Whoooeee

Be advised that the "People and Performance" ???? Division has been renamed. Top stuff.
Its now the "People and Culture" division. This should set GA on a new and exciting path. Yes??

In a lab they culture bad germs in a dish.
In (non) Aviation House they culture...well you know what some of them have turned out like so I dont have to elaborate.

Just keep trying to keep flying.

Sunfish
27th Aug 2016, 21:38
gerry111:

Perhaps for the next DAS they could try a "Six Sigma" Blackbelt..

Very, very good! :P

But we also need to hit "diversity", "product champions" and all the other jargon.

Lead Balloon
27th Aug 2016, 22:18
Relax. It's all in hand.

They've created "new positions for "Stakeholder Engagement Group Manager", "Designated Aviation Medical Examiner (DAME) liaison officer", and "Industry Relations Officer"." They've "established a Stakeholder Engagement Group that provides dedicated stakeholder engagement functions". If you create a position and give it a name that is a perceived solution to a problem, the problem is solved. Even better if you give a whole "group" the name. Those names will be on doors and cards and signature blocks. Job done!

They've "established the Director’s Advisory Panel to provide him with informed, high-level advice". This is a giant leap forward because, presumably, the DAS has been doing the job without the benefit of informed, high-level advice. That would explain quite a lot.

And "key manuals are being revised and updated to ensure there is standardised, current information on rules, processes and how assessments are undertaken." That could take quite a while, because there's probably no one left on the planet who understands the whole of the regulatory Frankenstein that's been let loose.

My favourites:

"CASA will develop a new Service Charter".

"A culture change process is underway within CASA to drive continuous improvement and strengthen commitment to consistently meeting service delivery timeframes".

Translation: The organisation is completely stuffed. (Munted, for NZ readers.)

Fantome
27th Aug 2016, 22:28
LB . . . . presumably little or none of the above comes from your own wild erratic fancy. If there is such an appointment as "Designated Aviation Medical Examiner (DAME) liaison officer" , what is his/her name? And is there specific contact detail so as to get in touch, for those at their wit's ends waiting to be "processed"?

Lead Balloon
27th Aug 2016, 23:01
"Creating" a position is not the same as "filling" the position.

Clare Prop
28th Aug 2016, 01:58
Fantome, it comes from here, CASA's Action Plan. Wank words and bureaucratbabble at its finest. http://yaffa-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/yaffadsp/files/dmfile/CASA_stakeholder_relation_Action_Plan-20164.pdf

Sunfish
28th Aug 2016, 05:51
…..and the management of CASA will keep doing what it has always done -buggeriing Australian aviation. The new positions are what is known in the IT trade as "smoke and mirrors" - diversions to make the "stakeholders" think that something is changing. It isn't.

By the way, you and I ain't "stakeholders" that title is reserved for hand picked representatives of the various Aviation associations. If CASA runs true to form as a bureaucracy, CASA will try to "capture" the stakeholders via privileged access to the senior CASA management as well as Mrdak and the Minister and play to stakeholder representative ego. Private dinners at Parliament house, Minister attending stakeholder functions, praise of stakeholders written into Hansard, etc., etc. are the chosen tools. You need representatives with iron self control and integrity to avoid the snares CASA will lay for you.

You will know this has happened when:

1) You complain to CASA and they refer you to AOPA, SAAA, RAA, etc., and

2) CASA delivers a new sh!t sandwich of regulations and your own association - the one you pay good money to for membership, explains that the sh!t sandwich is the best they could negotiate with CASA and it could have been much worse and that really the sandwich is tasty and nourishing despite the smell.

This situation is exactly what transpires with Yachting Australia that changed from being a members mouthpiece to a Government one.

Frank Arouet
28th Aug 2016, 07:08
Skidmore resigns. Well that is a positive for the man.


Skidmore resigns. Well that's not necessarily a positive for GA.


Skidmore resigns. Here we go again.


Someone will wake up one day and realize what's gone wrong time after time after time and will continue until someone realizes where the problem lies.

binglebailey
28th Aug 2016, 11:48
Skidmore resigns. Well that is a positive for the man.


Skidmore resigns. Well that's not necessarily a positive for GA.


Skidmore resigns. Here we go again.


Someone will wake up one day and realize what's gone wrong time after time after time and will continue until someone realizes where the problem lies.

And where exactly is that?

Sunfish
28th Aug 2016, 22:34
The problem lies in the fact that Politicians can see no votes for them in fostering Aviation and a lot of negatives for them when an aircraft crashes.

CASA is a creation that absolves politicians from all blame if a large smoking hole appears somewhere. CASA thus sells itself to the politicians as a provider of political insurance.

Anytime a politician queries CASAs seeming inefficiency and incompetence, they are told that if they meddle with anything to do with aviation, then the blame will fall on them when an accident occurs.

Wisely, politicians decide to leave CASA alone.

To put that another way, in America there is an animal called a Skunk. The Skunks natural defence is its ability to exude an absolutely horrible smell when threatened. Wisely, all other animals leave Skunks alone.

Frank Arouet
28th Aug 2016, 23:56
The concept of Australia being a Democracy is flawed. Australia is a "Bureaucracy" in the true sense of Sir Humphrey, and therefor there is no political solution to the CAsA conundrum. It doesn't take much digging to see who the powerbrokers are. Until this hurdle is behind us nothing is going to change. Sans a war, and the implementation of The Army Act, a more robust political without personal agendas needs to be bred from scratch and inserted into the system where they can resurrect the dead industry.

Shed Dog Tosser
29th Aug 2016, 08:33
Every once in a while there is a thread where pilots openly and without the good sense of demonstrating respectful self constraint, show for all to see who and what many of them really are, this thread is one of those, which makes me ashamed to call myself a pilot.

IMO more head way has been made with the legislative changes in the last 20 months than the previous 20 years.

I wonder what a public survey on the highway patrol or tax office or court system would reveal ?

megle2
29th Aug 2016, 09:36
Tosser, imagine what he could of achieved in that case if he saw out his contract rather than pull the pin in under 2 years.

Sunfish
29th Aug 2016, 10:55
Shed dog, you can stick "respectful self constraint" up your proverbial. The CEO role requires you to land on your feet, running. You have Six months to get a major run on the board and twelve months for a recognizable major achievement.

I cannot overemphasize this. You do not get 20 months to make changes. you have a twelve month window to metaphorically hack off heads and tear the place apart. After that you can spend your time repairing the wound and rehabilitating the patient.

To put that another way, the achievements come at the front of your tenure, not at the end. To do otherwise is like a football team relaxing for three quarters and pinning all their hopes on an all out effort in the final quarter.

this is why I said the good AVM was not going to succeed. A CEO needs to make an immediate and public impact on the organization. 'familiarization", "getting your feet under the table", "briefings" - all BS. You need to have an action plan ready to implement on day 1 week 1. if you have to dick around, you haven't done your homework.

"restructures" don't cut it. the same test awaits Skidmores replacement; immediate, public major real change that stamps the CEOs authority on the business.

the job is like being a football coach. no excuses. Sadly Skidmore didn't set the world on fire and after 29 months he wasn't going to be able to.

This is not a personal reflection on AVM Skidmore. I could go into more detail of the whys and wherefore so except I'm on the iPad.

sheppey
29th Aug 2016, 12:12
A CEO needs to make an immediate and public impact on the organization. 'familiarization", "getting your feet under the table", "briefings" - all BS. You need to have an action plan ready to implement on day 1 week 1. if you have to dick around, you haven't done your homework.


From a previous senior DoT manager who has been following the thread on the DAS planned departure. His words "Fine to have an action plan ready to implement on day 1week 1. That might be operable in private industry but in the Public Service it can take up to three years to get rid of an incompetent employee due to the various legal processes that have to be followed. That means a DAS is hamstrung before he has his feet under the table. Enough to discourage the most courageous AVM's or their equivalent in CASA." From the voice of the experienced..

Sunfish
29th Aug 2016, 21:11
Agreed sheppy, your mate is correct you can't fire them (begs the question of how CASA has PS conditions when it is an NGO) but you can redeploy said employees to a basement office playing computer games or do other things that make their career pointless and miserable until they take the package. Furthermore, you can make their jobs just disappear In a reorganization leaving them to reapply for new positions.

This is why a new DAS needs the backing of cabinet and the help of PM&C to effect change. PM & C do this sort of thing routinely they are experts at it - the Sir Humphrey of Sir Humphreys.

One way to do it might be to split CASA into two new organizations.

To put that another way, wouldn't the cost to industry and Australia be cheaper if CASAs senior management were placed on administrative leave with full pay until they retired?

Aurora8
29th Aug 2016, 22:48
The concept of Australia being a Democracy is flawed. Australia is a "Bureaucracy" in the true sense of Sir Humphrey, and therefor there is no political solution to the CAsA conundrum. It doesn't take much digging to see who the powerbrokers are. Until this hurdle is behind us nothing is going to change. Sans a war, and the implementation of The Army Act, a more robust political without personal agendas needs to be bred from scratch and inserted into the system where they can resurrect the dead industry.
Actually, Australia is a two party dictatorship - abetted by the bureaucracy...

IFEZ
30th Aug 2016, 03:06
I'm writing this as someone who has only ever worked in private enterprise, so I admit that I have no idea about the internal workings of a bureaucracy like the public service or CASA or any other Govt (or Semi Govt) dept.


Whilst I was less than impressed with Mr Skidmores stance on the CVD issue, I did feel that he was at least trying to effect some level of change in the organisation. It is extremely disappointing that he would not at least see out his initial term of appointment. Were things that bad behind the scenes that he just couldn't take it any more..? Was he forced out..? If so, by whom..?


How is it, that nobody including his predecessors, are being held accountable for the breathtaking clusterf*&@ that is the Regulatory Reform process..? The simply eye-watering waste of public money beggars belief, and it seems there is absolutely no end in sight. Why have there not been wholesale sackings/bloodletting in the organisation, of those responsible..? Who are these people, this 'iron ring' I keep reading about..?? Why can't a new DAS walk in there and cut a swathe through the place like it so clearly needs..? Are the employment contracts of these people so watertight that even if they waste hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars and ruin the GA industry, they can continue to do so with no accountability..?


Sorry for all the questions and the rant but this whole situation makes me http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/pukey.gif http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/pukey.gif :ugh::ugh:

Frank Arouet
30th Aug 2016, 06:13
It would seem Chester sacked him as his leaving would have wound up the alarms in the public service directed/leaked media because his contract was broken. If so he leaves with a taxpayer funded handshake plus his remaining remit. All of which may appear to solve a problem but leaves the real barrier to a competent regulatory authority. It's been mentioned a senior lawyer welded to the CAsA payroll for years should step up to the plate. If he does nothing will change in my opinion. He, like the departed DAS are designated sacrificial cows to act as a fusible link to the senior public servant who's next job will probably be at McBank as a corporate psychopath. Until then he will protect his position and no amount of reasoning or common sense will alter his preordained agenda. In short, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Chester and Joyce should address this problem before claiming any medals.

Lead Balloon
30th Aug 2016, 06:54
IFEZ

I agree that Mr Skidmore should not be blamed for the outcomes of the survey. Subject to a couple of exceptions, he inherited a mess that has been created over a couple of decades and was never going to be cleaned up during Mr Skidmore's fleeting tenure. (The exceptions were his response to CVD and the ASRR Report. Both were unnecessarily self-inflicted wounds for which he would have been charged if still a member of the ADF.)

The reason that nobody in CASA is held responsible for the regulatory reform Frankenstein is that they cannot be held responsible. The reason they cannot be held responsible is that they are not responsible in fact. The people who are responsible in fact don't in fact work in CASA. But they are happy to let CASA take the blame. That's CASA's job.

Are the police responsible for reforming the criminal code? Nope.

Is ASIC responsible for reforming the corporations law? Nope.

Is the ATO responsible for reforming the tax law? Nope.

Name me any regulator that's successfully driven the reform of the regulatory system that the regulator itself administers.

Sunfish
30th Aug 2016, 08:09
why did Chester sack him? is Chester pro aviation or just another career politician?

Checklist Charlie
30th Aug 2016, 08:27
why did Chester sack him?

Maybe the puppet master (MrC47) told him too.

CC

Arm out the window
30th Aug 2016, 08:59
Name me any regulator that's successfully driven the reform of the regulatory system that the regulator itself administers.

Name me the alternative body with the appropriate expertise in the field who could produce the required reform in this case, then.

Frank Arouet
30th Aug 2016, 09:39
AOTW: NZ CAA on a five year contract.

Lead Balloon
30th Aug 2016, 21:35
Name me the alternative body with the appropriate expertise in the field who could produce the required reform in this case, then.There is no government body with the required competence to carry out the aviation regulatory reform program.

That's the point.

That's why Australia is stuck with the regulatory dog's breakfast it has.

There is a government body with responsibilty for carrying out the aviation regulatory reform program. It's not CASA.

Captain Sherm
30th Aug 2016, 21:53
Before too many more instant solutions get thrown around.....


Please read the latest edition of Australia's "Aviation State Safety Programme", ICAO Document 9734 (Safety Oversight Manual-Part A-The Establishement and Management of a State's Safety Oversight System), ICAO Annex 1 and Annex 6 (and especially Appendix 5: State Safety Oversight of Air Operators) and ICAO Document 8335 (Manual of Procedures for Operations Inspection, Certification and Continued Surveillance).


Then some of the instant solutions can be better benchmarked.


And for those wanting lock stock and barrel adoption of the FAA rules.....you will have time, in the midst of reading the above, to start to figure out how to explain to all the co-pilots in Australia with less than 1500 hours why they will no longer have jobs and explain to EASA why we have stopped requiring MCC training. Just for starters.

Duck Pilot
30th Aug 2016, 22:47
Status quo needs to be changed, CASA regulate and the Department of Infstructure (our what ever they call themselves) should be the regulation drafters. The current system clearly has failed badly and costed the taxpayer and industry dearly. Until someone in government steps up and changes the government's policy on who makes the new rules, we are never going to get out of the existing rut. To take over 20 years to achieve nothing with the ops regs is a total disgrace.

dubbleyew eight
31st Aug 2016, 06:59
armout the window, the eternal CAsA apologist, is completely missing the point.
there was no reform of aviation regulation needed.
what is needed is a sensible set of regulations.
australia's massive clusterfcuk breaches human rights and individual rights in a number of areas because it was written with an ex-raaf mentality.
a mentality that has no real clue when it comes to private aviation.

you as who could do the job competently?
transport canada have an existing set of regulations that work well.
no need for reform at all.
just import their regulations and more importantly their attitudes to flying and we would be better off.

if we really must keep CAsA them make them the Commercial Aviation Safety Authority and get them out of Aeronautical Engineering Standards and private aviation completely.

I keep getting told that CAsA are actually competent.
trouble is I have 46 years aviation background, own aircraft, and I have yet to see them ever be competent.

Eyrie
31st Aug 2016, 07:41
Yep, Canadian rules would be fine. Similar to FAA, but includes owner maintenance of simple light aircraft.
Also none of the nonsense of dividing up recreational aviation into "silos" with CASA creation of monopoly private bodies and compulsion to join. ONE set of rules only.
The need for RAAus would go away completely if owner maintenance of aircraft up to RAAus weight limit was allowed along with ordinary car driver's licence medical for same. Likewise for GFA and gliders. The sky would not fall in.
This would save huge amounts of money and avoid having volunteers spending lots of time writing operations and maintenance manuals for each branch of sport aviation, with differing standards and rules for no good reason.

Ex FSO GRIFFO
31st Aug 2016, 10:56
The post needs an ex FSO...desparately!

FSO Creed -

"We, the Willing,
Being led by the Unknowing,
Have been doing so much, for so long, with so little,
That we are now qualified
To do Absolutely Everything with Nothing.....!!!

1st 'Action Due' - A spill of all positions under the DAS>
2nd 'Action Due'- as 'Frank' has said - Cap in hand to our Bros across the detch....
3rd - 'Action Due' - to actually FOSTER / ENCOURAGE G.A.
That is all.....
Zimples.....
Cheers:}

The name is Porter
31st Aug 2016, 14:36
Cool story bro!

Arm out the window
31st Aug 2016, 21:03
armout the window, the eternal CAsA apologist, is completely missing the point.

Nice work W8, I ask who is the alternative organisation to fix the problem and you interpret that as apologising for CASA - in the words of Simon and Garfunkel, 'a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest' would be your theme song I believe.

what is needed is a sensible set of regulations. Yep. You must also be a rocket scientist with that kind of blinding insight.

parabellum
31st Aug 2016, 22:00
If the last three CEOs have not been the right people for the job then isn't now the time to take a closer look at those who made the (wrong) selections and turf them out first?

Datum
31st Aug 2016, 22:58
Duck Pilot and Lead Ballon are on the correct track...

The Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development (DIRD) are responsible for many of the issues facing CASA..

Difficult to regulate when the regulations, guidelines are other instruments of government are inadequate and/or outdated..

The next three weeks will be interesting to say the least..

One obvious place to start would be to ensure that SENIOR STAFF within DIRD are at least aware of the multiple deficiencies..and then hopefully, these same bureaucrats have the courage and conviction required to address the issues in a timely and effective way..

Checklist Charlie
31st Aug 2016, 23:17
parabellum & Datum are certainly looking in the right area of responsibility, a good place to start is MrC47 aka the puppet master.

CC

Lead Balloon
1st Sep 2016, 04:13
[E]nsure that SENIOR STAFF within DIRD are at least aware of the multiple deficiencies..You can safely assume that, from the top down, DIRD has a very long-standing and detailed understanding of the existence and causes of the stinking turd that is the aviation regulatory reform program.[A]nd then hopefully, these same bureaucrats have the courage and conviction required to address the issues in a timely and effective way..I'm guessing you don't have much experience in the machinations of modern Australian governments. If you did, you would know what a ludicrously naive hope that is.

Much easier to get another Skidmore or McCormick or Byron or Toller to pretend to own the turd and take the flack for it.

Dangly Bits
1st Sep 2016, 07:52
Shane Carmody as new CEO!

Lead Balloon
1st Sep 2016, 08:42
Wow - that was a quick selection process.

Are you sure he's not just acting in the position until the national and international search and selection process for a replacement for Mr Skidmore is completed?

triadic
1st Sep 2016, 09:33
Acting CEO

Shane Carmody appointed acting CASA Director of Aviation Safety - Aviation Business (http://aviationbusiness.cmail20.com/t/i-l-kturjdk-xtlujykh-i/)

He may well score the job?

Sunfish
1st Sep 2016, 10:13
Is this good bad or neutral?

dubbleyew eight
1st Sep 2016, 10:30
armoutthewindow I did actually point you to the answer.
CANADA has the regulations right.

Shed Dog Tosser
1st Sep 2016, 10:31
Is this good bad or neutral?

Having read all your post on this thread Sunfish, I assumed you knew everything,,, next weeks Lotto numbers ? :)

Nipper
1st Sep 2016, 10:48
It doesn't matter who's regulations you adopt, by the time it gets through Office of Legal Drafting (all Commonwealth Legislation gets drafted here) it will not resemble the original. :yuk:

Arm out the window
1st Sep 2016, 21:09
armoutthewindow I did actually point you to the answer.


You're not only those other incredible things but a time traveller too W8 - I responded to LB's post, you chipped in with your comment a few after mine, then you're using the BIG letters to indicate you already told me the score! Loving your work.

Lead Balloon
1st Sep 2016, 21:38
Is this good bad or neutral?Neutral.

Australia has proved, through an experiment run four times so far, that changing the DAS does not help to clean up the dog's breakfast that is the regulatory reform program. Running the experiment a fifth time? What was Einstein's definition of insanity?

The primary cause of the problem is the structure and functional competence of the entire aviation portfolio. This problem is exacerbated by the general degradation and decay of the fabric of government.

CASA will never be functionally competent to carry out the regulatory reform program. A regulatory authority is not functionally competent to make the political decisions that determine the different standards in the system being regulated. That's why changing the DAS four times has made no substantial positive difference to regulatory reform program.

But no one else is going to put their hand up, or be made to put their hand up, to take over and complete the regulatory reform program. That's because the politically expedient solution is simply to let CASA muddle on and cop the flack.

Forever.

Duck Pilot
2nd Sep 2016, 00:17
What Nipper has stated is exactly correct, and to compound the problem the lawyers setting the new regs in concrete know nothing about aviation.

triadic
2nd Sep 2016, 01:44
Some things just don't change!

Back in 2003, CASA held the first (and only) FLOT conference in SYD.

One of the comments that came out out that two day conference in the summary was that:

"one of the greatest hazards to safe aviation in Australia was the AG's Dept"....


Still much the same it seems and only the Minister can fix that! But sadly the lawyers have too much say/power still.:(

aroa
2nd Sep 2016, 05:31
Decide for yourself if you think Carmody is right for the job.

When allegations were made of serious criminality by CAsA persons to Bryon, passed to Mc Comic and gang the protective upshot was ..."that an external Investigator be brought in, to make it fairer for the staff etc" And at great expense to the taxpayer.
McComic having decided that the current ICC's finding that they should be dealt with by the AFP was inadequate !!

Mr Carmody was signatory to the Brief for the Investigator that asked to determine only if the CAsA persons had breached the 'code of conduct'
A get out of jail free card for the perps... since CAsA's code has NO provisions in it regarding criminality. How good is that.
He found the all did ...and should be dealt with by the AFP.!

So Carmody's credential is ...Turd Polisher ie BAD

When asked to give the reasons why the change was made to code from crim, under the Admin Decisions Act or whatever its called these days, his response was a Fcuk off in bureaucratic jargon, I dont have to tell you..

So much for the Code requiring ethical, moral and fair dealing standards, and not wasting taxpayers dollars.

What a sick joke the place is.

Pity JA never got the gig... he'd be able to spend another 20 years there picking the discrepant wording out of the regs.

Capn Bloggs
2nd Sep 2016, 05:35
Vote 1 Leddie for DAS! Come to think of it, "Where's Leddie?"

Oldmanemu
3rd Sep 2016, 21:17
I worked for Mr Carmody from 2006 to 2009. He understands the challenges of running CASA. Now he is at he top and unshackled, he will do a great job. He is the best man we have had there in many years.

Sunfish
4th Sep 2016, 05:15
Chester comes out as another creep with no love for aviation.

Airport privatisation and CASA rules hurting businesses, owners and expert says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-04/airport-privatisation-driving-operators-to-bankruptcy/7811054)

triadic
4th Sep 2016, 09:09
Chester comes out as another creep with no love for aviation.

Maybe so, but more likely one of his staff that does not have the knowledge or detailed briefing that is required.:E

ABC news tonight also...

Frank Arouet
4th Sep 2016, 10:37
Carmody is no reformer. CAsA is still owned by the "intelligentsia".

Oldmanemu
5th Sep 2016, 12:22
Might be a bit harsh to judge Mr Carmody three weeks prior to him taking up the role?
He is not a heavy jet pilot - check
He is not a heavy jet sumpy - check
He is not an ex traffic controller - check
He is not ex ADF - check
He is, therefore, not beholden to any particulr segment of the industry. We tried that before, and suffered again and again.
He needs to surround himself with a variety of well experienced, demonstrably succesful and articulate industry participants. This is currently CASAs achilles heel, and has been for too long.

TBM-Legend
5th Sep 2016, 20:26
Roger Weekes has put his hand up for the full-time position I understand!

Frank Arouet
5th Sep 2016, 23:05
And so the minister has sent in his own man.
The appointment this week of Shane Carmody as Acting CEO and Director of Aviation Safety (http://www.australianflying.com.au/latest/shane-carmody-appointed-acting-director-of-aviation-safety)raises more questions than it provides answers. Carmody was Deputy Secretary of the Department of Infrastructure and Transport, and as a former CASA Deputy Director he went to that job with a solid aviation background. The move was applauded in the aviation community; he was seen as a white-hat that shouldn't have been passed over for DAS when John McCormick landed the role. Now, Shane Carmody gets his chance to drink from a chalice that has becoming increasingly poisoned. CASA DAS has become responsible for a string of broken hearts, and no-one in the position in the past 20 years been able to stamp authority on the place and rein in the rampant bureacracy that has infected the regulator. Suddenly, Minister Darren Chester expects Shane Carmody to do the job by the end of the year. Honestly, if Carmody has the goods to do that, then just leave him there. If he can't do that, then Mr Chester has a problem larger than he ever knew, as it may come to pass that no one person can clean up CASA to the point that it has any earned authority over those it regulates. Within weeks of Carmody striding in through the automatic doors at Aviation House, I have no doubt that he'll be reporting back to Chester that he does indeed have a problem larger than anyone at the department ever thought. Having said that, Carmody has been there before; he has first-hand frustration with the empire building, megalomania and job-protection rackets that continue to undermine reform attempts. He could have written such a report a month ago! Maybe he did ... maybe that's why the minister has sent his own man in now; because no-one else is capable of being the walk-up start needed to drive reform.

Read more at The Last Minute Hitch: 2 September 2016 - Australian Flying (http://www.australianflying.com.au/the-last-minute-hitch/the-last-minute-hitch-2-september-2016#2slvE2iIUCEQJA35.99)


The Last Minute Hitch: 2 September 2016 - Australian Flying (http://www.australianflying.com.au/the-last-minute-hitch/the-last-minute-hitch-2-september-2016#bjtsGkTOKV2JUWEB.99)

KRUSTY 34
7th Sep 2016, 20:27
I wonder what this will mean for the introduction of Operator formulated flight and duty limits?

Perhaps the former DAS was a little too "firm" when it came to cultural reform as part of the FRMS process!

Oldmanemu
8th Sep 2016, 12:28
Watch this space, .... soon.

Frank Arouet
9th Sep 2016, 09:01
Any new paradigm is without merit unless it addresses the basic question of trust. So many have been granted license to meld into a position that demands instantaneous action but have wasted the time to be factored into the system by the public servants. The poor suffering aviation industry /fraternity have simply been there and done that. I'll watch this space, but don't expect anything . The industry is buggered. full stop. What is anybody going to do about that that doesn't involve mind numbing reviews, inquiries, political inputs or bureaucratic obfuscation?
Nobody trusts the regulator. Get it?

Sunfish
9th Sep 2016, 10:43
from recent experience: there is money to be made in aviation.

however profitability depends on the good offices of a regulator that has allegedly. demonstrated that it cannot be trusted.

for example, why isn't there a seaplane service providing charter/'rpt" from the Gold Coast to the Sunshine Coast and beyond?

tail wheel
9th Sep 2016, 20:52
for example, why isn't there a seaplane service providing charter/'rpt" from the Gold Coast to the Sunshine Coast and beyond?

There is (or was) - Saeair (http://www.seairpacific.com.au/).

I wait with great interest for Mr Carmody's forecast of when he will complete the regulatory reform process and publish the final CAR's!! It has only taken 28 years so far. :D

IFEZ
10th Sep 2016, 02:10
I wait with great interest for Mr Carmody's forecast of when he will complete the regulatory reform process and publish the final CAR's!! It has only taken 28 years so far.


...not to mention the hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars it's cost as well.


Unfortunately tail wheel, I can't see it ever being finished. Not in my lifetime anyway. There are too many people involved where it is in their best interests to keep it going for as long as possible.


I wish Mr Carmody well, but I can't see how he's going to do any better than his predecessors, given the mess he's inheriting. I hope I'm proven wrong, for the sake of the industry.

Lookleft
10th Sep 2016, 02:42
You're forgetting that at the moment he is only in an interim position so he is unlikely and unable to do anything of consequence. If he is made the permanent DAS then he can effect change, or keep the status quo while maintaining the illusion of progress

Sunfish
10th Sep 2016, 05:01
agree with look left, it does not matter who the DAS is. without a mandate for change from the government, only cosmetic changes can or will be made because reform, by definition, changes the risk profile of aviation to the government.

to put that another way, CASA provides fireproof insulation for the Government against any aviation tragedy. fiddle with CASA and if there is an accident within the lifetime of the next Parliament, then the Government, not CASA, wears it.

Frank Arouet
10th Sep 2016, 05:30
If this "clusterfkuc" is by design, it confirms what the public already assume of politicians and their greedy tenacious grip on power. No amount of foreign donation will save them or their onerous servants from scrutiny one day. I eagerly await that day of reckoning.

BendyFlyer
10th Sep 2016, 12:59
The news that CASA has yet another CEO points yet again to the failures that CASA has come to represent, of governance and government. While criticism of CASA is well deserved it is time everbody took a good hard look at the most of the critical probelms and issues which have created this mess which is called aviation regulation in Australia.

Point one. The history of the mess goes back to the Hawke-Keating Labour government and the Minister at the time Mr Jones. The Government created a super Transport Department Canadian style but forgot to implement the low level or bureaucratic reorganisation required to incorporate what had been a separate organisation into the wider federal bureaucratic structure. The pilot strike did nothing to endear Aviation to Federal Labour and the attacks on pilot and engineering unions thereafter merely added further layers of distrust and disinterest. That mistake was followed by the next fad in Government and Federal administration, the re-birthing of government departments and organisations into stand alone business units and user pays, that is changing what had been service organisations into fee charging businesses. In the meantime steps were taken to unshackle Australian aviation from the grasp of protection from market forces and the slow moves to a deregulated aviation industry which then followed. The outcome was the Act of 1988 which still essentially provides the regulatory framework for CASA. That act was seriously flawed and failed to remove the vestiges of bureaucratic colonialism, namely regulatory intervention in the work of the market and industry. The failure to provide a proper Act to govern aviation and to ensure that any regulatory body did not return to intervening in the market for aviation products and services has been pointed out in several Commissions of Inquiry into serious accidents that occured in the intervening years (Seaview etc.). So point one the Act is flawed and remained flawed.

Point two. Nobody has understood or been able to introduce into the CAA and then subsequently CASA the notion of customer service as would befit and be mandatory in any business that ostensibly is to service paying customers nor has it been possible to reconcile safety regulation with a profit making organisation, because you cannot. They are different processes and have different outcomes. Why because regulation serves the needs of the wider public interest and international obligations and profit making serves the need of shareholders and investors or market forces. All subsequent Governments and adminstrators of CASA have sought to maintain the fiction that you can do what is impossible. There is no doubt that any regulator can and should strive to be both accountable and provide a service that is customer focused but that is very different to attempting to reconcile making a profit and making things safe.

Point three. No previous Government or the High Courts has provided a definition of safety as a result, the very thing that should and must be agreed upon has remained a vague and nebulous concept. Accordingly how safety in aviation is interpreted has varied and moved continuously in a manner that has defied the logic and capacity of industry and or Canberra bureaucrats to manage or provide. The key problem is that when in doubt politicians have deferred to the regulator and despite their claims to consult with industry or the public never really have in a way that produced a meaningful and workable outcome.

Point four. As a result of the operation of aviation businesses in Australia big and small to achieve and maintain a high safety standard which meant they stayed in business and kept their customers, governments and the bureaucracy have been content not to change anything, after all they have a perception that it works, it does but not for the reasons they think.

Point five. Australian aviation has suffered from the indifference and neglect of a series of really stupid and ignorant Ministers who have been content to allow the Canberra mandarins dictate and deal with the issues described in points 1-4. They never have developed a coherent policy that understood the need for root and branch reform required and hence to scrap the Act, develop a new one and append to that Act the regulatory framework required and plainly obviously available via the ICAO and FAA frameworks.

Point six. A large number of people involved in the industry and at the regulator and the wider public have failed to understand the serious challenges and changes that have manifested themselves over the past several decades to aviation as an industry both manufacturing and of transportation. In short, the industry is in what economists would describe as a mature or tertiary stage, where entry barriers are formidable because of the technology and capital costs of participation and where large segments were in decline because of the wider changes brought about by globalisation and changing societal needs. The transport side has matured and is now dominated by effectively two mega manufacturers world wide and the recreational or private capacity has diminished with the lack of innovation and the loss of participants, simple. Those changes and outcomes were evident in the 1980's and have become more evident over the intervening period. Living in the past has meant many have failed to look at what the future may hold or where the industry may be going.

Point seven. For all the above reasons, CASA became an organisation dominated by a mindset of know all about everything aviation and ignorant of the need for change. Trapped in its own history and internal mythology it has like all organisations recruited people who were very good at group think but very poor at thinking (with exceptions but there always are). Like all organisation it becomes over time an organisation interested primarily in its own needs and self survival and fails to service or do what it was chartered to do, regulate aviation safely, instead it has just regulated.

Point eight. The splitting up of the accident investigation capacity and the oversight and control of air traffic services left the regulator with no capacity to effectively influence or control critical aspects of aviation, safety failure and airspace management. The internecine warfare that characterises Canberra bureaucratic process and power processes meant that CASA was left without friends at Court and dependent on the largess of treasury and its finances dependent upon a regulatory imposition from the industry, the fuel excise instead of being given funds direct from treasury budget allocations like all other departments.

Point nine. The governance structure of CASA has failed because it ostensibly is a quasi government body and hence it had a Board of Directors imposed upon it but it is a Board that has proved to be all but useless and has been used to pander to political largess and has been nothing but a gravy train to political insiders, no matter if they were from the industry or not. For what is in effect a small Government Department it has meant that the Board has not been a policy and business oversight body interested in the industry it participates whose management and oversight would be keenly felt were the body a true profit making organisation but instead is nothing but a club, rubber stamping either the wishes of the only shareholder, the Government (Minister) or the behaviour and activity of the Chief Executive Officer.

Point ten. Successive Governments have accquiesed for reasons of political ineptitude and or ignorance to the need for a radical and complete overhaul of aviation legislation and regulations without the need for intervention in either the market or technological development (innovation and manufacturing). Minister after Minister has failed to grasp the serious implications of allowing a regulatory body to draft its own regulations and at the same time has been incapable of properly listening to the concerns and issues of the relevant external industry participants, be they owners or operators. The outcome is the disgraceful waste of public monies, the squandering of precious time to an industry already facing significant challenges on a variety of fronts and what frankly is now nothing but an unworkable and convoluted regulatory froth that bares little resemblance to good governance or simple plain rules that would protect the wider public interest or help maintain a viable and profitable industry.

So it will matter not who is appointed CEO, they will achieve nothing of any lasting use and the industry will decline terminally until the Government or A government addresses the above points.

Lead Balloon
11th Sep 2016, 00:12
Hear! Hear!

In order to fix a problem, you have to understand and deal with the causes of the problem.

CASA is not the cause of most of the problems in aviation regulation. CASA is a symptom, as are the ATSB and Airservices.

The aviation regulatory reform program and the plight of GA are just manifestations - albeit very stark ones - of the degradation and decay in the fabric of government generally.

The degradation and decay in the fabric of government is caused mainly by the major political party duopoly. The major political parties now comprise mainly career politicians, whose staff members are mainly aspiring career politicians, whose main aim is to obtain and retain the government benches. But having done so, they don't have much of a clue what to do next.

Not "say" next, but "do" next.

Here's how governments now run, and why the chronic mess that is the aviation regulatory reform program, which is one of many chronic messes, will never be cleaned up while ever the major party duopoly prevails, no matter who happens to be the talking head at the top of CASA.

The day-to-day activities of government are managed by Ministerial staffers. (There are exceptions: The Abbott government was run by one staffer, singular - Ms Peta Credlin. The Rudd government was run by Mr Kevin Rudd. Alone.)

The Ministerial staffer's job is to protect and promote the interests of their Minister. Whether those interests happen to be consistent with the public interest, or even those of the Minister's colleagues, is generally of secondary relevance.

Ministerial staffers are not public servants. And neither 'side' of politics will call the other side's staffers to account in front of parliamentary committees, because that would be MAD: Mutually Assured Destruction. You question ours? We'll question yours. And we both know that we have very, very dirty laundry that none of us has any interest in being aired in public.

This has created a symbiosis between the major parties. While ever they continue to take turns in government, they'll continue to control and nurture the system that gives them and their friends a continuous and very lucrative share of the body politic's treasure. Although each of them would prefer the other to be in opposition, it is in neither of their interests to put the cosy duopoly at risk.

(If you want to get a warm inner glow from seeing the major parties reaching out to each other in the spirit of bi-partisanship, watch how quickly amendments to parliamentary entitlements legislation whoosh through the Parliament if the amendments result in an increase in entitlements. Daily allowance of $275 to stay in a unit in Canberra owned and negatively geared by your wife? Sure! Here you go. There will never be real reform to the political donations rules, while ever the duopoly prevails. All in the public interest, of course.)

To protect and promote the Minister's interests, the staffer needs good news stories and no bad news stories, or at least none for which the Minister will be blamed. That's where the people who run the government agencies come in. Their job is to supply the good news stories and make sure the Minister is never embarrassed. (This is why Ben Morgan was black-banned by Minister Chester's staffer.) The people who survive and thrive in the government agencies are very good at making themselves useful in this regard. Anyone who's been around aviation for a while would be able to name a couple of these people.

(The debacle that is the Census is just one more manifestation of the facade that much of government is. All of the smooth rhetoric about how it would all be fine, then reality hits, followed by more smooth rhetoric. I heard an ABS representative asked, the day after Census night, whether he "guaranteed" that the information that been successfully submitted would be secure. He said "yes". That man is either a fool or a charlatan. You don't have to think hard to guess which is more likely. Meanwhile, the NDIS Portal is an abject failure. And, naturally, the 'responsible' Ministers have no responsibility. Meanwhile, everything's fine at all those privatised airports. A Ministerial spokesperson said so.)

And the more power the agencies are given, the easier it is to do this job. Whether doing that job happens to be consistent with the public interest is generally of secondary relevance.

This has created a symbiosis between the major parties and the people who run the government agencies. While ever the agencies bring good news for the Minister and no bad news for which the Minister is blamed or embarrassed, the government agencies are doing their job and will be protected by the Minister. Accordingly, for instance, when there's a change in government, the new Minister will defend his or her agency against accusations about which he or she was criticising the agency from opposition. It's just a Punch and Judy show where the party that plays Punch and the party that plays Judy happen to swap roles occasionally. (A current example of this is the NBN.)

It is true that most ordinary parliamentarians are very hard working, have the best of intentions and want to make the world a better place. (Ditto CASA.) But the major parties are a machine, and the machine runs the parliamentarians. The machine is designed and fine-tuned for one purpose only: To attain and retain the government benches.

The machine even drives the PM. That's why a PM who supports marriage equality is nonetheless putting the country through an expensive delaying tactic to avoid implementing marriage equality. Having scraped into power, Mr T now has to placate some powerful people in his own 'team' by pretending the plebiscite is a good idea and that the shambles he is nominally in charge of is united.

That's why David Fawcett is not the Minister for aviation. Cabinet and Ministerial structures and positions are now determined by favours owed and the wielding of factional power, not competence and expertise in the subject matter of a portfolio. And even if David Fawcett were to be made Minister for aviation, the machine of which he is a part would determine what he did and did not do about aviation.

Likewise, CASA and Airservices and ATSB and the portfolio department responsible for them are fine-tuned to the purpose of insulating the Minister from responsibility for anything to do with aviation. Most of the drones in the machine have the best of intentions and want to make the world a better place, but the machine isn't designed for that. And the machine is falling apart.

Aviation regulation, ATC, running airports as airports and aviation accident investigation are irrelevant to achieving the major parties' primary purpose. That's why, for example, all of the major party Senators who've identified appalling messes in the ATSB, Airservices and CASA during Committee inquiries have never put their vote where their mouth is. Not once. That's why Mr Dolan kept his job despite the sick expensive joke that the NGA 'investigation', and his defence of it, were. Mr Dolan was, in the context of how governments actually run, doing his job very, very well.

Lucky that most aviation activity can (and does) occur at reasonable and acceptable levels of safety without the 'help' of CASA, without any 'management' in Airservices Australia, without the 'benefit' of whatever it is that the ATSB does these days, and despite the 'responsible' portfolio department being MIA. These days, most people involved in the aviation industry are merely crying out for the government to just stop creating more and more complexity and mess and cost for no tangible safety or commercial benefit.

There used to be a time when, having attained government, the government had a thing called a "plan" and the government then went about "implementing" that "plan". That "plan" used to be formulated by people who knew the detail of what actually had to be done to have a chance of actually "implementing" the plan. These days, governments have "slogans" and surround themselves with people who are willing to do whatever it takes to create the facade that the slogans are being or have been implemented.

The outcome now is that the people who actually run the country - Ministerial staffers - are not publicly accountable, and if the activities of government agencies are in the public interest, it's usually through mere coincidence.

There is an Orwellian fiction utilised to justify this: The Minister's interests and the public interest are - it is argued - the same, because the government of which the Minister is a part was elected by the public. The fact that usually more than half of the population didn't vote for the incumbent government is neither here nor there, apparently.

This is why it can be so very, very confusing for outsiders who try to reason with governments using objective evidence and appeals to the public interest and what is 'right'. The brutal political reality is that trying to reason with governments and their agencies in this way is like telling the pilot in command of an aircraft the railway gauge in Ethiopia. It's an interesting but completely irrelevant piece of information in the context of the task being performed.

(The increasing number of votes for minor parties and independents, the most popular of whom is called "informal", shows that members of the public are ever-so-slowly realising what's going on.)

Unfortunately, nothing about the aviation regulatory reform program and the plight of GA is of relevance to the tasks being performed by governments and their agencies, in the sense that I have outlined above. There's too much political risk and too little potential political reward for a Minister to intervene to do anything. The symbiotic relationship would be terminated and the Minister would be exposed and responsible. Easier to just find another Skidmore, McCormick, Byron or Toller to draw the flack for another few years, in return for some pieces of silver.

So, when in Canberra, you have to do it the Canberra way. Unless you can buy one of the major parties, you're pretty much limited to lobbying the cross-bench Senators, because some of them take the quaint view that they are there to protect and promote the interests of their constituents, and some of them actually mean it.

If the cross-bench and opposition Senators are in the way of something a government wants badly enough, the government will give the cross-bench Senators just about anything they want. Note that in these circumstances the merits or otherwise of what the cross-bench Senators want will be of secondary relevance to the government's decision to give them what they want. The decision will be made primarily on the basis of how badly the government wants to get the blocked measure through.

PLovett
11th Sep 2016, 01:36
I'm sorry leadie, but your wrong. As is bendy flyer but for different reasons. The problem does lie with CASA because everything aviation except for airlines is a policy free zone. CASA's mandate is safety, they can do what they like under that mantra and they have. Anyone involved in aviation knows what it takes, just ask them, or read the countless posts here and the same goes for those in CASA, even if it's a military background. But it gets worse. Because CASA's only interest is safety, therefore every thing they implement must, by definition, be safe, even if it's demonstrably not. They believe their own garbage. The pollies and bureaucrats have nothing to do with it and haven't for decades. It's all CASA's doing.

Bendy, it was the Whitlam government that made the super department of transport under Clem Jones as minister. I suspect it was the Hawke government that made them into a government agency. The breakup of CAA into CASA and ATSB and AA was after an inquiry found that the regulator was far too close to the industry following a couple of high profile crashes that the CAA should have prevented.

It needs a reality check to stop the [email protected]@@ that is the present approach. Something so dramatic that it rubs the noses of the government in the dog poo that is our industry. Without death on an industrial scale and my preferred option is for the FAA to reaudit the place and mark it "fail".

Lead Balloon
11th Sep 2016, 21:49
What is the cause of the "policy free zone"? Who is responsible for making and implementing policy?

The answer to neither question is CASA, although, as your post shows, many think that answer is CASA. And that suits the people responsible, very nicely.

BendyFlyer
11th Sep 2016, 22:34
Mr Lovett your reply shows you fail to understand points 1-10. I will accept the minor historical correction as to the very early genesis of CAA/CASA. The responsibility lies fairly and squarly with governments of all persuasions and their failure to understand the industry and governance generally. The only and I stress only remedy to correcting any of this is to actually have a policy from the elected representatives of our nation that puts into place a new Act with a definition of safety. The current situation is but the end game of a series of failures to do this.

No matter what people think is a quick fix the reality is that the regulatory regime retains within its core the notion and concept that it is regulating safety but in fact safety means regulating the industry and its economics (In other words it is the two airline policy in another guise). The regulator imposes regulations that ostensibly come and refer back to this central core. So everything that CASA does is an impediment and serious cost to the industry with no appreciable outcome or change to safety. Everyone in the industry world wide knows what the safety issues are and how to address them. We know what proper maintenance should be, what proper training should be and we know what are appropriate rules and safety standards, they have been known and established for nearly five decades. We know what causes accidents and we know that the basic errors that lead to accidents have not changed in several decades. More importantly we know and have available to us this collective wisdom in the form of the regulatory structures and systems developed and agreed upon by ICAO and ultimately all formed about the FAA system.

CASA should have no controlling role in private or recreational aviation and has attempted to treat everybody in this sector as if they were Qantas or whoever, they are not. The owners of the aircraft bear the risk and they know that the manufacturer set the standards for maintenance and design and that is the appropriate standard not a cobbled together variation dreamed up by somebody with nothing better to do and an organisation that cannot relinquish this control and leave the industry to manage both its own operations and the risk. Behind this stands the ultimate risk managers the insurance industry and they will not cover unacceptable risk, pure and simple.

CASA should have no need to impose or require AOC's on aerial agriculture or aerial mustering and require them to operate within a regime that is suited to a large scale heavy aircraft passenger transport operation. Similarly with aerial work as we call it. Now if you look at what I have just said you will see that this constitutes nearly three quarters or more of CASA's business and is simply regulation for regulations sake. All that is required is a simple rule that states you as a private owner or aerial agriculture operator or aerial mustering operation maintain the aircraft in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations nothing more nothing less. In other words you as the owner are simply responsible for airworthiness. Every normal person has a vested interest every day in every day activity in not destroying expensive capital or losing lives.

So these are but a few examples to illustrate how Government and CASA has lost sight of what safety is and how to manage it properly. Without an Act that simply makes this clear, is stripped of hidden economic regulatory rules and is supported by clear and simple plain english regulations that adopt international best practice you will reform nothing.

The greater tragedy in the past years is that despite numerous Commissions of Inquiry, numerous Senate Inquiries, numerous other ad-hoc inquiries, this message has not stuck, has not been implemented and thus the accident that is CASA and the Australian Aviation Industry will continue. It is Government that is to be held to account and it is the politicians of this country that should be held to account for this very serious and quite depressing situation but they are it seems for reasons of their make up and inner workings incapable of enacting or implementing change and quite simply impervious to reason and incapable of listening to the anybody.

Jabawocky
11th Sep 2016, 23:30
This video is Dr Samara McPheran talking on a completely different but very parallel topic. You may or may not be interested in the "topic" but have a listen and replace the topic of firearms with aviation and then have a close listen to what she says about ministers and staffers.........Pb Balloon is correct!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dOEON-H9BQ

Sunfish
12th Sep 2016, 09:46
Bendy flyer, I know you are well meaning,intelligent and your heart is in what you posted.

Your problem comes from your initial assumption:

The responsibility lies fairly and squarly with governments of all persuasions and their failure to understand the industry and governance generally

I am sorry to have to tell you that they do understand "the industry and governance generally".

They have made a conscious decision that it is not in their party political interests to foster the industry.

Contrary to popular opinion, there are plenty of highly intelligent people in both parties and the public service who are perfectly aware of the damage CASA has done, and it's cost to the taxpayer, even without multiple reviews by the Senate. The problem is that there are no votes in fixing the problem and plenty of risk to their backsides in supporting, let alone instigating, change in a politically volatile safety sensitive arena like aviation.

To put it simply, if the Government changes one comma of the aviation act and an accident occurs during the life of the parliament that did it, the opposition and the public will beat them to death at the next general election for "meddling with air safety".

To put that yet another way, giving CASA $250 million over 20 years to piss against the wall is cheap political insurance against the political fallout from (God forbid) a major disaster in Australian airspace involving Australian registered and operated aircraft. They know CASA is wasting money as far as pure economics is concerned, however CASA provides priceless political insurance in return.

The only solution is for the aviation industry to beat them to death, metaphorically speaking, if they don't support reform. As I have suggested time and again, the way to do that is by targeted campaigning in marginal seats in order to scare incumbents in those seats to electoral death.

Frank Arouet
12th Sep 2016, 11:04
This may seem too simplistic, as I am often accused as part of my troglodyte upbringing, but to put it simply: if the Government does not change one comma of the aviation act and an accident occurs during the life of the parliament that didn't do it, the opposition and the public will beat them to death at the next general election for not "meddling with air safety" with the perceived and demonstrated regulatory problems.
I think we give governments and bureaucrats the benefit of having more sense than they actually possess. Either, nay most, of both classes wouldn't survive in the "real world" where common sense, economy of effort and practiced historical sense would prevail. (Did I mention economy of taxpayer funds), Sorry...

BendyFlyer
12th Sep 2016, 12:51
Sunfish and others I understand your views but I think they are misplaced. The targeted campaign strategy has been tried before and has failed, getting the attention of non aligned politicians has been tried and while initially encouraging has produced no long term results that have produced the change that was required to salvage any sort of future for the industry. The three major players (Qantas/Ansett/RAAF, then Qantas/Virgin/RAAF) in the business have succeeded in getting the ears and action from various ministers in a way that suited their interests but did nothing meaningful to address the issues and role of aviation in Australia other than passenger transport and defence. There was a period after world war two when efforts were made to build upon the resources and skills and to develop industry and aviation technology but they foundered under the weight of other economic issues, namely capital controls and bureaucratic management of the left overs of the so called aerospace sector. We built world class facilities that could have allowed Australia a major role in space exploration and rocketry but let them fall into disuse and disappear. Time after time consortiums have attempted to get political interest in international class freight hubs, satellite and space vehicle launch facilities and manufacturing, like fast rail it remains a dream that will now be never realised. The last airframe manufacturer of any potential we had was sold to the Indians after years of unwarranted assault and interference from CASA.

The standard political response of calling for a Commission of Inquiry or Royal Commission and then ignoring the report is standard practice in Australian public life. They even did it to Kingsford Smith back in the 1930's with a Royal Commission into the Coffee Royal misadventure. And the RAAF has been an administrative clusterf&*^% since before WWII, a real look at the standard political ineptitude and defence administration that characterised the RAAF during WW2, which resulted in the Morotai mutiny and sundry other outbreaks of so called disobedience from senior serving officers in the face of ineptitude reveals only that aviation has happened despite politicians and government not because of it. Only recently we have senior officers telling the politicians that the decision to invest in the F35 is a major mistake but the RAAF will get it anyway and it will be useless (But that is a whole other topic of its own).

I am not interested in CASA bashing per se and while it would be easy to pick the organisation to pieces and to reflect upon the damage it has wrought upon individuals, their livelihoods and reputations, it does not change the basic fact that the very people who are responsible for the mess and the decline of the aviation industry will not take responsibility, lack conviction and therefore demonstrate significant shortcomings in both civic responsibility and social leadership. In short, we are and have been governed for a long long time by people who are ignorant fools and cowards. How else would you arrive at a situation where the national carrier, gets rid of local employment and engages in corporate tax avoidance using offshore tax shelters (not my views but the considered views of one the worlds leading tax avoidance experts and former senior ATO official) so if they don't notice or care about that then off course they will not care a fig about the rest of the industry either.

That is why nothing will change and things will only get worse and now that even Qantas has been successful in tax avoidance strategies by offshoring its maintenance we know that even the large corporate players left have no interest in the future of the industry as far as Australia is concerned, it is just a market that adopts technology, uses that technology and will walk away from that industry the moment it suits. Alas it seems that is the way it has always been and always will. It could have different but will not be and so it is best to let it wither and die in peace. You can be creative flogging a dead horse but it is still a dead horse. Best get on with something else less injurious to one's mental health and bank balance.

Sunfish
12th Sep 2016, 20:31
so you agree with dick smith.....

BendyFlyer
12th Sep 2016, 20:45
Not always Sunfish but Dick is right on a lot of issues. Anyhow just compare the New Zealand outcomes and aviation environment and you can see quite clearly that they have it right on lots of levels and how wrong we have it. As they say history may not repeat itself but it sure does rhyme.

BendyFlyer
12th Sep 2016, 20:51
Oh and I wish Mr Skidmore all the best in the future he will be much better off.

Eyrie
13th Sep 2016, 07:59
Bendy,
Don't be too sure about NZ. I was there a year ago and GA didn't seem to be happening too well. Ardmore doesn't have a tower anymore as there is too little traffic. I spent a fine Saturday afternoon there and saw one aircraft fly. Used aircraft prices at the low end now seem to be about two thirds of what they were a year ago.
Some industry people I talked to said aero clubs around the country were closing and the NZ lack of a class rating meant you had to find an instructor for your AFR who had a type rating in that kind of aircraft. I'm talking simple single engined, fixed gear, fixed prop bug smashers here, not complex aircraft.
PPL medicals were running around NZ$700 to 900 with all required blood tests etc.
NZCAA didn't seem to be held in any higher regard than CASA is here.

Oldbrigade
13th Sep 2016, 10:31
Roger Weeks????
His claim to fame was CFI Royal Perth Aero Club.
Dear oh dear
CASA DIRECTOr OF AVIATION SAFETY??????

thorn bird
15th Sep 2016, 20:21
Old fella,

you forgot to add, "Framer and author of Part 61" That masterpiece of industry killing legislation, admired around the world for its brilliant complexity and length.

dr dre
17th Sep 2016, 01:49
Roger Weeks????
His claim to fame was CFI Royal Perth Aero Club.
Dear oh dear
CASA DIRECTOr OF AVIATION SAFETY??????


Why not? Don't know anything about the virtues of the man but at least he has some experience in an integral GA role. Isn't everyone crying out for someone who will understand the plight of GA?
More than the previous DAS.

27/09
17th Sep 2016, 02:34
Eyrie: Don't be too sure about NZ. I was there a year ago and GA didn't seem to be happening too well. Ardmore doesn't have a tower anymore as there is too little traffic. I spent a fine Saturday afternoon there and saw one aircraft fly. Used aircraft prices at the low end now seem to be about two thirds of what they were a year ago.
Some industry people I talked to said aero clubs around the country were closing and the NZ lack of a class rating meant you had to find an instructor for your AFR who had a type rating in that kind of aircraft. I'm talking simple single engined, fixed gear, fixed prop bug smashers here, not complex aircraft.
PPL medicals were running around NZ$700 to 900 with all required blood tests etc.
NZCAA didn't seem to be held in any higher regard than CASA is here.

Ardmore tower didn't close because of lack of traffic. Many years ago (circa 25 years) Airways Corp introduced fees at towered airports. Two things happened either there wasn't enough traffic to pay the money Airways wanted and or the local users decided they didn't need Airways services any longer. Shortly after the fee introduction the Ardmore tower closed.

Yes, some aero clubs have closed and some seem to be doing quite well. The student loan system has meant a migration of CPL I/R etc training to the larger centres putting stress on the some clubs, some of which have closed.

The lack of a class rating for GA aircraft may have a small impact but we've had that now for over 20 years since the introduction of Part 61. While I agree the class rating (we used to call it Group Rating) is a good system the individual system we have hasn't been too restrictive and there is room for accepting commonality between two very similar aircraft.

The price of aircraft also reflects the general economy, dairy farm income is well down which means less money all round. Also when the NZ dollar appreciates against the USD aircraft prices fall. So the price of aircraft doesn't always accurately reflect the health of aviation.

I agree the medical costs are higher than they should be, though things like blood tests are not required at every medical.

Yep, CAA aren't always painted in a good light however from what I hear they are streets ahead of CASA.

To top it all off Rocket Lab are about to start commercial launches of space vehicles in the very near future. Rocket Lab nearly clear for NZ space launch - Business - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11711279)

thorn bird
17th Sep 2016, 04:41
"Isn't everyone crying out for someone who will understand the plight of GA?"
dr dre,
In principle I agree with your sentiments, we do need more competent people in CAsA with whole industry experience. The key word being "Competent" as opposed to industry rejects.
Mr Weeks in my opinion does not understand the plight of GA, he is the plight.

27/09 succinctly illustrates that although far from perfect, NZ powers ahead of Australia, given their population their GA and other parts of the aviation industry seem to be doing quite well. Amazing what good regulation can achieve.

Frank Arouet
17th Sep 2016, 10:05
"More than the previous DAS".


Let nobody be in any doubt that the problem is not with the plethora of "previous DAS", but the ability of any incumbent to carry out the proper function of a DAS while being subservient to the ruling bureaucracy with their funny handshakes and deliberate and feigned isolation from the political arm of the hand that feeds them. The matter is a political one, and dependent upon that political master to control his rabid advisers. Unfortunately voting for someone with the advertised skills is proven folly when the incumbent becomes endowed with power and wants isolating from the plebiscite.


Abstaining from the KIWI and PNG/ FAA ideas, China has a less prescriptive aviation regime than Australia.

Seagull V
17th Sep 2016, 10:42
Thorn Bird wrongly labels Roger Weeks as the "Framer and author of Part 61"
It turns out that CASA has more than one "Shining Roger". Blame Part 61 on the other one.
Roger, roger, wilco, over and out.

triadic
30th Sep 2016, 02:41
I understand that Mr Skidmore leaves the building next Friday and I for one would like to wish him well. We may speculate for many years on the why he decided to pull the pin, but does it matter to us? I don't believe so, as I think that the position and the job have a degree of difficulty that many would say is a poison challis. He did make some changes which are still embryonic and like others have observed we can only wait and see if they work. One can hope so. At the end of the day, maybe he just wants less stress in his life and be able to spend more time with his family. I think we all might like that!:ok:

aroa
30th Sep 2016, 04:17
May he go well and be more relaxed out in the normal world, having left a skid mark on the CAsA floor of history.
As predicted.

Cost? Great. Accomplishments ? None that we can see that benefits GA and saves the day for the industry, all but dead on its feet.

Its all very well to bail out early...didnt he ask around and do due diligence in depth and find out what CAsA is really like, just to protect himself.
Now he knows. And obviously realised he couldnt fight the good fight.
He supped the cup and got poisoned. The taxpayer supplied the antidote.
All good'
Next !

Stanwell
30th Sep 2016, 04:34
A pretty good summation there, aroa.
Depressing, ain't it?

It'll be interesting to read his memoirs down the track - assuming his payout was not 'conditional'.

advo-cate
2nd Oct 2016, 00:02
What has Skidmore brought us?


More regulation;
No improvement of regs especially Part 61, which brings higher costs and no understanding improvements, despite Skidmore’s “Tiger Team”;
A maximum 42% approval rating – #Colmarbrunton report (http://vocasupport.com/casa-fail-in-colmar-brunton-survey/);
An aviation industrial that has no faith in the regulator;
#aviation calling for the introduction of the FAA-FAR’s;
Bad decisions not fixed: Pantovic (http://vocasupport.com/r22-mayhem-caused-by-poor-casa-investigations/), Quadrio, Rudd, Polar Aviation, Barrier Aviation;
No move to “Rule of Law” and keeping to MLO (http://vocasupport.com/rule-of-law-and-the-model-litigant/);
Fail to fully and completely implement the 37-ASRR recommendations;
Fail to enliven internal protocols for meeting the full MLO’s;
Fail to meet 10-commandments; (http://vocasupport.com/2015-casa-scores-210-for-its-10-commandments/)
Cause major losses of pilot numbers and registered aircraft, then blame others for the source of the data [internal FOI data and annual reports]

Lead Balloon
19th Oct 2016, 09:08
Wild-assed speculation by me, earlier in this thread:This has created a symbiosis between the major parties. While ever they continue to take turns in government, they'll continue to control and nurture the system that gives them and their friends a continuous and very lucrative share of the body politic's treasure. Although each of them would prefer the other to be in opposition, it is in neither of their interests to put the cosy duopoly at risk.From the AFR, 6 May 2016:Turnbull government makes 103 last minute appointments before poll

Australia has six new ambassadors, a new Reserve Bank governor and 76 new or reappointed members of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal as part of a wave of 103 appointments – including former politicians – made in the dying days of the current parliament.

While many of the appointments and reappointments are entirely uncontroversial, the Coalition's enthusiasm for making so many appointments that will run during the life of whoever forms the next government – without consulting the opposition – will raise some eyebrows and runs contrary to the Coalition's own bitter protests about Labor making such appointments in the past.

In the current case, the appointments include appointing judges to the Federal Courts to fill vacancies that haven't yet occurred.

The most enthusiastic appointer in the past week has been Attorney-General George Brandis, who has made 76 reappointments to the AAT including a former Liberal senator, Judith Troeth, a former chief of staff to Scott Morrison, and a former federal Liberal candidate Denis Dragovic.

He has also appointed a counsel assisting the Heydon Royal Commission, Sarah McNaughton, as Director of Public Prosecutions, and former Howard gGovernment health minister Kay Patterson as age discrimination commissioner on the Human Rights Commission.

Senator Brandis has appointed Stephen Burley, SC, to the Federal Court to fill the vacancy left by the retirement of the Hon Justice Annabelle Bennett, AO. He has also appointed Mr Shane Gill to the Family Court to fill one of the positions that will become vacant when two justices "retire in the coming months", while Ms Brana Obradovic is being appointed to the Federal Circuit Court to fill "an upcoming vacancy".

Treasurer Scott Morrison and Communications Minister Mitch Fifield have also been busy making appointments, including to the Productivity Commission – where commission member Karen Chester has been appointed deputy chair – and a range of cultural boards, including the National Portrait Gallery, the National Library of Australia and the National Gallery.

Former Liberal minister Michael Ronaldson has been appointed to the board of Australia Post.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has appointed career diplomats as ambassadors to Italy, Vietnam, Iran, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Holy See, and as high commissioner to Ghana.

It has become a common occurrence for governments to make a rash of appointments before going to the polls, though the numbers this time around seem particularly large.

The issue of the appropriateness of making such appointments – when a new government may not agree with them – is the major point of contention between parties, rather than necessarily the candidates.

For example, the Coalition was critical of Labor for extended Glenn Stevens' term as Reserve Bank governor before the last election, even though it backed the appointment. The then prime minister said he did not have have an argument with the appointment, but "we just think that it was bad process from a government which is incapable of good process".

"There should have been consultation with the opposition."

Shadow treasurer Chris Bowen was equally critical this week of the lack of consultation on Philip Lowe's appointment as Reserve Bank governor, although he backed the appointmentMore wild-assed speculation on my part:
If the cross-bench and opposition Senators are in the way of something a government wants badly enough, the government will give the cross-bench Senators just about anything they want. Note that in these circumstances the merits or otherwise of what the cross-bench Senators want will be of secondary relevance to the government's decision to give them what they want. The decision will be made primarily on the basis of how badly the government wants to get the blocked measure through.From the ABC, 13 Aug 2015:Government cuts deal with crossbench, allowing importation of controversial shotgun

ELEANOR HALL: The Federal Government has agreed to allow the importation of a controversial shotgun, in exchange for the support on its migration laws of a crossbench senator.

The Government had banned the Adler lever-action shotgun while it reviewed firearms laws.

But it's now agreed to introduce a sunset clause so the guns can be imported in a year's time.

As Eric Tlozek reports...But alas: A week's long time in politics, and a year ...well, time for Plan B.

Meanwhile, in CASA land, the Acting Director of Aviation Safety has opened his mouth and proved himself a well-prepared puppet. The bolding of the text other than the names of the speakers is mine:Mr Carmody: There are a lot of questions there. I can try and deal with a couple of them. I note the point on declining general aviation pilots, and I have seen the statistics. The statistics do not show the growth in recreational pilots, which is very significant. General aviation is characterised by quite old aircraft. The market has actually changed in the last 10 to 15 years. Recreational pilots flying two-seater aircraft have increased exponentially. So, taking the figures in one hit, it is only looking at one segment of the market. That is one point I would like to make.

In terms of the mandates for fitment of ADS-B, there are many, many operators over the last five years— individuals and organisations—that have made a commitment to fit ADS-B. They have fitted it on the basis of the mandate that is in place and the fact that the mandate is coming in. There are a number of operators who would therefore not thank me and would come back at us as a regulator to say, 'You are making it less safe by deferring fitment, when we have already made our investment in accordance with your direction.' We have made very clear directions for the mandate up until 2017. They have invested very significantly, in many cases, in this. So that is a second aspect.

The third aspect, if I may say, is that there is nothing to suggest that the prices will decrease as fitment increases in the United States and elsewhere. In fact, there might be more competition for equipment, and the prices may not decrease. It may be more difficult to get equipment closer to the time. The view from one group of people is that it will get cheaper if we wait until afterwards. The challenge for us is that ADS-B is a safer technology, because it indicates where every aircraft is. That is the safety case we are working towards. My final point on the United States—

Senator XENOPHON: That is not all aircraft and, with apologies, Senator Sterle, ADS-B stands for—

Mr Carmody: Okay, it is not all.


Senator XENOPHON: Automatic Dependent Surveillance-broadcast.


CHAIR: Senator Xenophon, I do not mean to interrupt, but you are coming to the end.

Senator XENOPHON: I am. I am very close. Can I just say that if aircraft fly below cloud cover, visually—if aircraft do not have ADS-B, they have to fly visually—correct?

Mr Carmody: Yes, they have to fly visually. That is correct.


Senator XENOPHON: The point that Dick Smith has made to me just again today is that that poses a risk to pilots. There has never been a case of a mid-air collision in this country involving aircraft in clouds—is that right?

Mr Carmody: I did see a quote to that effect. I assume it is correct; I have heard that.

Senator XENOPHON: He has expressed a concern previously and again today that requiring pilots who cannot afford to install ADS-B to fly visually below clouds itself is problematic from a safety point of view. Is that something you have assessed?

Mr Carmody: Not to my knowledge. I can take that on notice and see whether we have. I do not know the answer to that, I am sorry.

Senator XENOPHON: Could you take it on notice. Is there any possibility—and I emphasise the word 'possibility'—that, given the alarming numbers in respect to general aviation in this country, there may be consideration on CASA's part to consider a stretching out of the date for the implementation of ADS-B?

Mr Carmody: There are no plans at this stage to delay the implementation, but I have only been in place for a week. I would like to look at the possibilities. At this stage there are none, but I will see.
...

LameDu
19th Oct 2016, 22:45
When a CEO and an interventionist Board clash, one of them goes.

spinex
19th Oct 2016, 22:55
Hmm, I'd like to see the actual figures on this "exponential" increase in recreational pilots. Yes they did increase up to about 2010/2011, however since then the numbers have been on the decline going by membership renewals, partially thanks to the overall economic situation, but also I'd suggest thanks to CASA's heavy-handed dealing with the recreational authorities, particularly RA-Aus. A couple of people of my acquaintance said fuggit, all too hard and went fishing instead. The other factor which seems to be ignored is that a proportion of those recreational pilots also hold various CASA licences. Lies, damned lies and statistics the man said....

cogwheel
20th Oct 2016, 10:03
Hey Leady, can you post the links to the Senate committee stuff pls? Thanks

Lead Balloon
22nd Oct 2016, 01:28
Proof Hansard here, cogwheel: http://www.aph.gov.au/~/media/Committees/rrat_ctte/estimates/sup_1617/17_10_2016_Hansard.pdf

There is no "exponential" increase, spinex. Hence my bolding.

And Mr Carmody seemed not to comprehend the irony in the point he was trying to make. People aren't flocking to recreational aircraft in order to benefit from the wonderful regulatory regime CASA has created for GA. People are flocking to recreational aircraft to avoid as far as practicable anything to do with CASA and its wonderful regulatory regime.

As to his suggestion about prices of ADS-B equipment increasing if Australia waited until after the US mandate comes into force, he's off with the fairies.

BendyFlyer
24th Oct 2016, 03:48
This thread will continue ad nauseum, replete with nostalgia for what was, the various conspiracy theories, the florid accounts of bureaucratic machinations political ineptitude and miracle cures, it is time every one had a look at the patient -aviation. To use a well worn quote, "Its the economy stupid" and has been seen the late nineteen eighties.

Did nobody notice the cessation of production of light aircraft by manufacturers all over the world?

Has nobody noticed the emptying out of rural Australia?

Did nobody notice the substitution of technology for communications, mapping, exploration etc that once used aircraft?

Did nobody notice the shift to high levels of urbanisation to the major cities of Australia?

Did nobody notice the impact of international trade and transport via globalisation and the significant competition on international air routes that resulted?

Did nobody notice the very steep rises in the cost of aerospace R&D?

Did nobody notice the demise and consolidation of aircraft manufacturing world wide?

Have we failed to notice we as a Country now have no worthwhile manufacturing industry and now we have lost the automobile side as well?

Has it escaped every one's attention that the millenials and younger generation have crap or casual jobs and hence little disposable income? In other words they are broke.

Has it escaped every one's attention that the younger generation have absolutely no interest in aviation other than to get to that overseas jolly?

Has it escaped everyone's attention that State and Federal governments have spent billions building roads across the country but not a single airport?

We are back to where we were in the 1930's, recreational flying or private transport in an aircraft is the dominion of the rich and the rest will use public transport ala the airline and that is where there is still money to be made but nowhere else in aviation so why would any thinking entrepreneur put a dollar into the industry? they would'nt and they don't.

Thats reality check the facts.


As for CASA they have been rummaging about in the wreckage ever since too stupid to realise it crashed. So CASA cannot fix it because all those factors are outside of its control but they have spent a fortune in taxpayers funds living in the past, avoiding liability for what they did do and generally getting in the road and damaging any individual or business trying to keep what was left going and as long as they continue with the delusion that the golden days are with us still and the facts that they are gone and never coming back nothing will ever change, not in my lifetime or ever really. There are also a whole raft of issues coming down the pipeline for us as a nation and the world generally that will make it all seem insignificant in time.

I will leave the topic and thread with a quote:

"It would be some consolation for the feebleness of our selves and our works if all things should perish as slowly as they come into being; but as it is, increases are of sluggish growth, but the way to ruin is rapid." Lucius Anneaus Seneca, Letters to Lucilius, n. 91

Lead Balloon
24th Oct 2016, 04:26
Winston Churchill:When the situation was manageable it was neglected, and now that it is thoroughly out of hand we apply too late the remedies which then might have effected a cure. There is nothing new in the story. It is as old as the sibylline books. It falls into that long, dismal catalogue of the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of mankind. Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong - these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history.

Band a Lot
24th Oct 2016, 05:00
Hope the new guy is Bob!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO_PL3V1c4Y