Aviation Books.....Must Read Tomes! [Archive]

jungly

8th Jun 2003, 12:43

'Careless' - well not so sure about that...but remember it is just a story! Like every other Huey pilot we read Chickenhawk over and over, called it "our SOPs"....and stupidly even tried to emulate some of the "techniques". It may not be careless but it does give the wrong impression.

I dont doubt that some of the techniques, events did in fact happen (which is scarier still) - and now that I too have flown in combat, it is easy to find new ways to scare yourself and new tricks that nearly get you killed before your 25th birthday.

1. Using right pedal to decrease the TR power and allow you to get of a pad carrying more troops only works a little bit! At some point you need to straighten it up, using left pedal and the 'spike' in power can cause all sorts of grief. In the tropics at a high DA you will lose a bunch of height or over torque. The day tried it I was on a hill top - thankfully.

2. Doing an auto, picking it up and spinning it around is insane. Been there, done it, only got 180deg and ran out of TR authority. As per #1 the pedal required to stop the rotation...well, it didnt! (Tried it the other way too....could only get 90degs) Your chance of rolling it over is very high.

3. Overlapping rotors in formation. Tried it, can be done...crazy, stupid stuff. Ten seconds....more than enough stupidity - dont do it.

4. Getting hit by a bullet...does not sound like "tick, tick"...it makes a god awful bang and makes you very uphappy indeed!

:O Now before some old and bold people here rip my head off....the above is tongue-in-cheek! I have the deepest respect for rotorheads everywhere, esp the Vietnam Viets. I fly over Da Nang almost everyday and I look at the hills and forests with awe...and wonder about Chickenhawk, those who fought, those who died. I have a great friend who flew 2 tours there...and I think about him 30yrs ago.

One thing we forget is that many of the things/techniques we know today came from that war. My word of advice though is to remember it is a story...a damn good one...please "dont not try this at home".

2500+hrs in the Huey....wouldnt trade them for the world!! :E

EESDL

8th Jun 2003, 19:03

Quite agree on the 'little careless front' but what does one expect from a low-time pilot thrown into the chaos of SE Asia?
Flying techniques and seemingly foolish exploits may have come about from the fact that the author was flying in a war zone! You stayed together, despite the fact that landing on a hot LZ could be deemed as foolish, because that was the way the tactics were meant to work - mutual support - techniques so widely used today.
No one is suggesting that the author is of the award-winning stuff....he joined as a grunt remember (tongue in cheek there folks)

I'm keen to read the book that the comparison of such 'carelessness' stems from though, should be a great read!

From my point of view, Chickenhawk is a great read, not because of the tales of 'daring-do' but the struggle of the author coming to terms with the fact that there were so many dickheads that were meant to be on his side! Something that I'm sure many of can relate too. Yep, it helps to be familiar with the vehicle for this guy's story but the extra bo77acks that he has to put up with from within HQ/establishment is typical.....a soothing feeling that it happens everywhere. They may get their tax-breaks but atleast they still have to cope with the mouthy, trumpet-blowing arse-holes that you just know would cock-up the very same situations that they seem all to well to blather on about!!

I couldn't hear the sound of bullets, just saw the puffs of smoke.

NickLappos

9th Jun 2003, 01:03

I've been there, saw the circus, petted the elephant. Mason called it just right. Folks who complain that he exagerated have a slight point, but give me a break! Mason's story is true, a great read, and resonates with every Vietnam Vet that I know (at least up to the part where he tends to blame his legal difficulties on his experiences).

The sounds bullets make when they pass thru the fuselage is a pling like a screwdriver driven into sheetmetal (as long as its not too near you) , a sneaky sound that is just loud enough to hear, and just soft enough to scare the crap out of you. The definition of Concentration is how you stare at your gages and reach out mentally to feel your machine after you've been hit. The definition of wary Relief is that, 20 seconds after you hear the hits, that you are still flying, still alive and still scared crapless.

SASless

9th Jun 2003, 02:53

Nick being a former Cobra pilot and erstwhile Teetotaller....I surmise the elephants were pink when observed.

The sounds of bullets hitting the aircraft seemed to vary directly with the caliber and distance from my naughty bits. The smaller and further away they were....the less they impressed me. I can assure you when a .51 caliber machinegun round hits the main former beneath your luxurious Boeing-Vertol....one size fits all throne....it sounds like the world has just come to an ugly end! The AK rounds that merely punched 7.62 mm holes in the 0.064 inch thick aluminum armor plating back in the ramp area....well I guess someone might discover them on a post flight or something.

The real thrill was when the underslung load of 105 mm howitzer projectiles and fuses got hosed by a machine gun from about 300 feet and the fuses all let fly ......now that was a soul enrichening event! Anyone who says time does not stand still when you are confronted with your own mortality instantly......just doesn't understand. For a moment, we actually thought we had lost the main rotors through some catastrophic event that great two headed sausage maker was infamous for doing. After lighting my Kool and asking for the cruise checklist, getting my heart re-started and swallowing my stomach and other sorts of internal items.......we sorted the situation out and made the first official arrested landing of a Chinook at an artillery firebase.....we dragged up about 400 meters of concentina wire, trip flares, and claymore mines getting the old girl on the ground. The infantry guys who had to re-install that were not amused!

paco

9th Jun 2003, 07:45

Found the sequel in a flea market, but couldn't finish it - just read the first one and think of the guy when he had his head on the right way - and thank God the second book wasn't about you.

Phil

crop duster

9th Jun 2003, 10:04

Paco, well put.

BarryB

Winnie

10th Jun 2003, 19:43

There are a few other good books on the subject of the past unpleaantness in SEA.

Low Level Hell by Hugh L. Mills, whoose machine is displayed in the army aviation museum at Ft. Rucker, Ala. OH-6A Cayouse Scout "Low Level Hell"

Firebirds by Chuck Carlock, was another one,

And last, We were soldiers once, and young, which has nothing really to do with helicopters, but actually mentions Robert Mason in regards to the Ia Drang Valley

Must say, these stories are harsh, but good, and in my opinion severely readable:ok:

Cron

10th Jun 2003, 20:58

Winged Victory

V.M. Yeates

It's superb. WW1 flying.

Box the Tug

11th Jun 2003, 01:23

Some other good books on helicopters in the Vietnam war.

In no particular order:

Hunter killer squadron by Mattew Brennan - about flying gunships in the 1st squadron 9th Cavalry

The price of exit by Tom Marshall- huey and oh-58 flying in the 158th aviaton battalion 101st Airborne

Lest we forget by William C Meacham - the Kingsmen 101st aviation battalion flying huey in support of LRRP'S and SOG

Wings of the Eagle by W.T. Grant -flew in the same unit as the above around the same time

Centaur Flights by Richard D Spalding- Cobra pilot in D troop 3rd sqadron 4 th cavalry 25th infantry division

Apache Sunrise by Jerome M Boyle- Cobra pilot with apache troop 1st of the 9th Air Cavalry

Bonnie Sue by Marion F Sturkey A - CH-46 pilot with marine squadron HMM-265

Seawolves by Daniel E kelly -huey doorgunner in HAL-3 in support of Navy SEALS in the Mekong Delta

I managed to get all of these from Amazon here in the UK hope this helps

Regards

BTT:)

paco

11th Jun 2003, 14:39

Read about a guy who went for a fixed wing check ride in the US, having flown helis in Vietnam - the examiner was a guy he had pulled out of a hot DZ - needless to say, he didn't fail!

Phil

tacks

11th Jun 2003, 17:32

Chickenhawk is a really excellent book. I´ve read it plenty of times.

First time I heard about Robert Mason was back in military flight school - some IP´s used his book during lectures.

By the way, I`ve just finnished "AEROSCOUTS" by Charles Holley (OH-6 driver). It´s a quite interesting book.
I`m just wondering, why the US Army in Vietnam has replaced the agile OH-6 by the OH-58 - does somebody know?

What-ho Squiffy!

14th Jun 2003, 13:04

Thanks for the link Hueywsh! :ok:

SASless

14th Jun 2003, 13:32

Jetrangers were much cheaper.....and the US Army senior management could have given a crap less about the lack of performance of the OH58A.....as compared to the OH6A. Lots of good men died or were maimed as a result. Politics had a big role to play in that decision as well. A bit of research regarding the Bell Helicopters Textron Board during those years might make interesting reading.

Palma

15th Jun 2003, 00:28

The sequel to "Chickenhawk" - "Chickenhawk Back in the World" is currently available through www.bookfinder.com - whilst stocks last!!

hueywsh

16th Jun 2004, 06:14

This post is extremely belated, about a hundred years ago I posted that I was looking for Chickenhawk back in the world, well I have found it and read it..thoroughly enjoyed it.

To any PPRUNERS interested, happy to post anywhere for a read. It really explains a lot about the first book and I think is a necessary read to understand the man and the life.

I recently wrote To Robert Mason and explained what I thought, he wrote back and said that he was going to again be flying a huey on the memorial day weekend as a tribute. Good to see.

Cheers

hueywsh

hueywsh

16th Jun 2004, 07:35

Squirrel,

let me know when you have finished that and I will send you the sequel.

Cheers

hueywsh

RobboRider

16th Jun 2004, 07:44

hueywsh,
Did you get your copy in Oz?

When it first came out there was a bit of a thread about it so I tried to get it here in Oz but the local franchizes (Angus & Robertson, Dymocks etc) hadn't heard of it and didn't have it on their databases. So I let it go.

I was (still am) too wary of sending credit card details over the internet so I didn't buy it from overeseas.
If you got it locally - who did you get it from?

RR

hueywsh

16th Jun 2004, 07:58

Robbo,

I got it through a spinoff from Amazon.com in the US. They only had a couple of copies as it is not in print anymore, so I paid about $15AUSD for a second hand copy, well worth it though. I can send it to you if you like, just PM me your details.

Cheers

Hueywsh

paco

16th Jun 2004, 08:18

I can also recommend First Light by Geoffrey Wellum, which is the Chickenhawk equivalent for spitfire pilots

Phil

the wizard of auz

16th Jun 2004, 08:46

I have been looking everywhere (in Auz) for the chickenhawk sequel for about six or so years without any luck. anyone out there have it???? Happy to pay for it.

HELP.......please.

hueywsh

16th Jun 2004, 08:52

Wiz,

I guess it's first in best dressed, I have it right now and am happy to get work to pay to send it to you. let me know your address and I will send it tomorrow. PM if you wish or email [email protected]

Cheers

Hueywsh

Robbo Jock

16th Jun 2004, 11:44

Hueywsh, how many copies have you got ? You're sending it all over the place ! :D

And I concur with paco, 'First Light' is an excellent book. Slightly different to your usual WWII pilot book.

the wizard of auz

16th Jun 2004, 13:20

hueywsh, your PM is in the mail...........check it out. :ok:

Bravo 99 (AJB)

16th Jun 2004, 17:48

I have read his first book twice and it still is a great book.

what put it into context for me was watching the the film we where soldiers after reading the book.

the film is not specific to helicopter pilots but it puts everything that Bob Mason says in his book into true context well worth watching and well worth reading his book.

Would be interesting to read this one.
Hueywsh any chance you can put me on the list for a read.

Sincerely

Bravo 99 (AJB)

Airtoday

16th Jun 2004, 18:25

I remember reading Chickenhawk many years ago. (Mid 80s).

At the time I was flying around with a guy who had been there too, with him, and knew him. We were in an equally difficult environment.

To quote him he said "Chicken Hawk"-- "Chicken ****".

Probably envious that he had not written it. I don't know.

Definitely a good read.

hueywsh

16th Jun 2004, 23:14

Bravo,

The book is on its way to western Australia first of all and then who knows after that. I would be happy to send it to you when it gets back. There is an extract, 1 or 2 chapters of it on the robertmason website. I think it is www.robertcmason.com.

Hope this is of some use.

Cheers

Hueywsh

whopwhop

17th Jun 2004, 01:47

If you are keen for another absolutly excellent read then look no further than "Low Level Hell" its about the 'Loaches' in nam doing servailence.I could almost go to the point of saying it is as good as Chickenhawk, it puts a different spin on the aerial view of vietnam, everyone relates Hueys to nam which is fare enough but the little birds paid an equally important roll in the whole ordeal.

Dynamic Component

17th Jun 2004, 04:12

I also spoke to a guy that was in Nam when Mr Masonwas there.
He said he was there the day Robert Mason gave his wings in and did not want to fly anymore.
He also said that most of the "interesting" parts in the book happened to other people and not Mr Mason as he was there for such a short while.

I do like the book and am looking forward to read the second one.:}

SASless

17th Jun 2004, 06:01

Just did a three ship formation flight today...practice for the upcoming Air Show at Olympia, Washington. We had a UH-1H (now identified as GrandPa's bird), a UH-1K, and a very pretty AH-1P. Several guests from the UK arrive tomorrow to get stuck into flying in our warbirds.....helicopters and airplanes. Boss Fellah owns a few very nice airplanes. After the formation practice, I got the thrill of riding in the Strikemaster....then the other wingman rode in the TBM Avenger. Somehow, I think this working for a living can have its moments.

Tomorrow after our guests arrive, we will crankup the N3N Stearman, TBM, A1E Skyraider, Strikemaster, L39, P51, Zero, Cobra, Huey's....and have a grand time!

I will try to get some photos to post....

:ok: Time for Grandpa to bed down for the night!

Dynamic Component....I have a very dear friend that flew in the 48th with Mason....he seconds that account....most of the account is borrowed from others that did the job and marched on...he absolutely spits when he hears of Mason....I dunno...wasn't in that unit but I do suspect my friend might be telling the truth....his reaction was too forceful to be made up.

Look forward to seeing your pictures. In the meantime, I think this might be your Strikemaster.
http://www.olywa.net/ofm/images/strikemaster.jpg

Heliport ;)

hueywsh

17th Jun 2004, 08:44

SASLESS/Dynamic Component,

Thanks for the further insight into the history. I must say for those who don't know, in the second book he identifies quite a few of the characters mentioned in the first book and their deeds etc.

Cheers

Hueywsh

gadgetguru

28th Aug 2004, 12:10

maybe the screen writers have never bothered to read it

maybe the content is too single minded/technically focused & the remainder of the story-line too thin
(assumptions; not my opinion - i love the book, read it double figures)

'We were Soldiers' is probably as close as you are going to get to it & most likely any attempt to make a movie based on Chickenhawk would be seen as purley an attempt to capitalise on the 'success' of "We were Soldiers"

don't get me wrong - i'd love to see it done (well), with the same effort of getting it right as 'Blackhawk down'

maybe hollywood is all 'Vietnam-ed' out
perhaps they are looking for other avenues, particularly now post 9/11 & with Iraq still going, lots of people trying to stop thinking about war.
(x-military, so don't go hippy bashing me, if i was still in i know where i'd be)

in short, i don't know why & i wish it weren't so.

High Nr

28th Aug 2004, 12:51

Two great Novels.

Chickenhawk and the Flight of the Intruder !!!

The later was ruined by a sub standard Hollywood production.

Lets leave the other masterpiece alone.

goaround7

28th Aug 2004, 14:08

Excellent question. I thought the same thing when I read it a few years ago. I even wrote a treatment for a script for it (yes, a literate pilot - can you believe it ?) but got nowhere.

Feedback I received from agent and production companies was more related to Apocalypse Now and the feeling of it having 'been done'.

BTW, IMHO Blackhawk Down was boring. Very well, 'realistically' made but no fun to watch and characters not engaging. Didn't care what happened to them. Maybe I've been in Africa too long as none of it makes any difference in the medium term anyway...

Nuada

30th Aug 2004, 03:28

I suspect that, as I am sure that you have already noted the only film made recently on the topic of the Vietnam war was the turgid, and poorly crafted 'We were Soldiers..". It is much more resemblent of a WW2 movie with it's cardboard and simplistic reduction of the war to black and white and good v. evil.

As the current political polar extremes continue to manifest themselves on a daily basis during the current presidential campaign in the US, it is apparent that the divisions of the Vietnam era are still vibrantly alive and not at all resolved in the public eye.

The book, "Chickenhawk" is not only well done but also accurate in it's portrayal of life 'on the line' as a helo pilot in VN. I was there in 70-71 and also based in II Corps, and I was surprised at the similiarities far outnumbering the contrasts despite the intervening years since the timeframe the book describes.

I believe that no major studio, (for the forseeable future) with the US currently engaged in multiple conflicts in the present tense would consider making a film which wasn't ~appropriately~ 'on message'.

Sad but true. But then, as we already know... "truth is always the first casualty".

Giovanni Cento Nove

30th Aug 2004, 20:48

The problem with this book is that unfortunately a lot of the "experiences" were not first hand of the author and some of it is a complete crock. Quite a few vets I have spoken to agree. Apart from that there is hardly a "story" in it unless you happen to have an interest in helicopters.

Right Stuff

30th Aug 2004, 21:32

Do tell us more Giovanni - otherwise a provocative but useless contribution

SASless

30th Aug 2004, 22:42

Right Stuff....

I have seen the reaction of several people who served with Mason in Vietnam...one of them is a very credible source having shared the cockpit with Mason. He tells me a very different account of events than those presented in the book "Chickenhawk". His strong dislike of Mason is quite out of character and I have to assume his views are founded on a reaction to what the book claims as being "firsthand" and in reality is more like second or third hand. Mason tells a good story...but the book appears to be more a novel than a recounting of Mason's time in combat. (As I hear it from some of those pilots that were in his unit.) These comments were told and re-told at VHPA conventions over the years....where the actual truth lies....who knows.

gadgetguru

31st Aug 2004, 00:45

perhaps chickenhawk is more akin to 'permission to kill', a fiction based of a door gunner on 'polution IV'
the smoke screen ship .

the Author (name evades me & i don't have a copy) uses fictitious characters, but all tales are based on true accounts/incidents, that the author has collated into a single characters' vietnam experience.

At least that author pointed this out in the prologue.

A pity about chickenhawks integrity, still makes for a good read though.

SASless

31st Aug 2004, 02:26

The film "Blackhawk Down" was excellent...having flown in Moga...the location chosen was too close to accurate in some cases. It was very close to reality for current film makers...to the extent...one of the "Little Bird" pilots in the film...re-enacted his actual flight in the affair.

The book....was extremely good reading...I came away with a lot of respect for our latest generation of war fighters. But, at the same time, I retained my same conviction they deserved better senior commanders. Some of the decisions made by the bosses reminded me of the incompetency that can be fostered by a rigid bureaucracy which promotes uniformity and conformity at the expense of innovative and creative thinking.

Those young Rangers proved that courage and individual abilities are the core strengths of the military. It is a shame they had to suffer the losses they did for the lack of political will and spineless commanders who continue to be afraid to blow the BS whistle.

The documentary about the fight was much more interesting than was the film. Seeing the young men tell their accounts and hearing how they overcame such tremendous odds was an impressive tale. It is yet another case where brave young men die and suffering crippling wounds because of inept commanders.

turbinetaxi

31st Aug 2004, 06:50

Another good read in the same vein, is called Let a Soldier Die, Rated up there alongside Chikenhawk and The 13th Valley, praised my Robert Mason on the back of the book, written by William E Holland

Right Stuff

31st Aug 2004, 21:37

SASLess - many thanks for the reply; can't stand knocking without a bit of substantiation. As you say though, he does tell a good story which keeps me turning the pages every time I pick it up.

PPRUNE FAN#1

31st Aug 2004, 22:30

Not too many helicopter books written from the pilot's perspective to begin with. So Mason has attained a kind of cult-hero status among our lot, simply because he seemed to have gotten so much of the technical stuff right. I can still recall the day back in, oh, 1970 or '71, sitting in my local public library while my wide-eyed, 15 year-old self eagerly read the chapter in which he quoted the Huey Pre-Start checklist. Riveting to me, even if it was not so to my friends.

But let's not forget that Mason turned into a real dirtbag drug-dealer afterward. So we must ask: Did Viet Nam make him that way? Or was he a dirt-bag even before he went over? I've known one or two helicopter pilots in my life. Some of them are quite dislikeable (heck, I may be one of them). It would not surprise me in the least if Mason was one of them. Words on a two-dimensional page can never adequately describe a three-dimensional person. Maybe the real Mason was not deserving of the high esteem to which he has typically been held.

18greens

1st Sep 2004, 21:23

Some fix wing recommendations but non the less very interesting

Talkdown - Brian Lecomber (about a non pilot landing an aerplane when the pilot expires)

Fate is the Hunter - Ernest K. Gann. (life of an airline pilot in DC3s).

Whirlybird

2nd Sep 2004, 10:36

All this stuff about Robert Mason may be true. However, when someone becomes famous, particularly for writing something or doing something that others feel they could have done, some people get jealous. So personally I'm inclined to keep an open mind on the whole issue. Good book anyway. :ok:

rjsquirrel

2nd Sep 2004, 14:39

I think badmouthing Mason is a bunch of crap. I spent a tour in Vietnam flying Army helos, and I have told people that Chickenhawk is so very true to what we did that I would sign every page.

Some who knew Mason might have said that stuff, but like swift boat idiots who decide to defame their buddies decades later, all they do is smear themselves.

Mason, and all the other Army pilots I flew with are really heroic, did a dirty job, took big risks, and in the end, deserve to be recognized for that. (I guess this seems self serving, cause I am in that group, but I was the only shivering, scared idiot, the rest were heros!)

ppf

2nd Sep 2004, 15:33

Chickenhawk is by the far the greatest book I have read (5 times to date I believe!). This book has inspired me to read other such books and learn about this war with which I am fascinated by.

Although the Vietnam War may have been deemed the 'wrong' war I read Chickenhawk and other such books with belief that these are truly great people that fought and died.

Rjsquirrel and other vets, you have my respect.

ppf ;)

Vortex what...ouch!

26th Apr 2005, 06:37

I have read this book in double digits now. First read it in the mid eighties on exercise in West Germany – found it in the back of a landrover. It inspired me to become a helicopter pilot – I always knew there was something I liked about flying but this book brought it firmly into focus for me. Took me a while but I managed it.

He sure can capture what it means to fly and get it on paper – and judging by the Vietnam pilots comments he got the flying in combat bits right too.

VfrpilotPB/2

26th Sep 2007, 06:51

Good morning Ppruners,

At last I have been lent a copy of the BOOK, what a brilliant read, almost sat in the back seat it is so consuming!!:D

Peter R-B
Vfr

helimutt

26th Sep 2007, 08:07

If you enjoyed that one, get a copy of 'Dustoff', The Memoir of an Army Aviator by Michael J. Novosel

misterbonkers

26th Sep 2007, 08:32

and Seawolves by Daniel Kelly is a damned good read.

ivan

26th Sep 2007, 11:57

There is a "sequel" to Chickenhawk which is enjoyable, but involves following him into his post-Vietnam struggle (including financial woes leading him into running a yacht into South America for drugs and getting some jail-time).

"Low Level Hell" is another good read - Loach pilot in Vietnam. Similar sort of Chickenhawk style memoirs, but involving drawing fire onto himself so the gunships could take out the revealed enemy positions....:eek:

ivan

26th Sep 2007, 12:04

As I recall, Chickenhawk was a part of flight training in between reading the flight manual and standardisation guide... "Now, when I'm a little short on power with my instructor tomorrow I'm going to kick in a boot of right pedal and corkscrew my way out of the confined area, maybe cutting back on some foliage in the process with the main rotor.........that'll show Charlie.....:hmm:" (the well-thumbed crewroom copy of Bob Masons book the eternal instructors' nightmare!)

NickLappos

26th Sep 2007, 12:35

Chickenhawk is a great read, and true enough so that I have told folks it is about as accurate as it gets.

For those who can't find a copy, here are 273 copies for sale at abe.com (the best used book site, by far):

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=mason&sts=t&tn=chickenhawk&x=52&y=10

ScrumpyLuvver

26th Sep 2007, 12:51

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chickenhawk-Robert-Mason/dp/0670215821

rotornut

26th Sep 2007, 14:25

Great book - now I know why they have the canopy slat on the TH-55/300 series!

Bravo73

26th Sep 2007, 14:42

I've also got to leave my vote for 'Low Level Hell' by Hugh Mills. (Amazon US (http://www.amazon.com/Low-Level-Hell-Hugh-Mills/dp/0891417192), Amazon UK (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Low-Level-Hell-Scout-Pilot/dp/0891417192/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/026-1156913-0722065?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190817611&sr=8-1)).

It is just as well written as Chickenhawk, the stories are more believable and the flying is even more incredible. Highly, highly recommended. :D

Sgtfrog

26th Sep 2007, 15:48

Yes its very good - also enjoyed "Firebirds" by Chuck Carlock, a slightly better read in my opinion.

Funny enough I bumped into a guy who - I think - was the pilot/something to do with a Huey which was parked at Helitech 2005. I had just read Chickenhawk and - as he was an american - mentioned I had read it. He got a bit angry as he seemed to have problem with the author, I think he believed that the author had "borrowed" some of the experiences in the book from other people.
Can anyone shed some light on this? Not trying to stir things up, just interested. (I know its been a while but I had forgotton about the conversation until I read this thread!:ooh:)

Bravo73

26th Sep 2007, 15:52

Er, SgtFrog, this gent that you met didn't happen to have a beard, did he?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Huey2.jpg

Local Lad

26th Sep 2007, 15:58

for me by far it has to be 'Low Level Hell' what a corking read. It's about time i re-read that book.

Hats off to all the people who went through that.

I did read a good book by a door gunner, the name escapes me...it'll come to me.

Sgtfrog

26th Sep 2007, 16:06

B73 - yeah, now you mention it I think he did.

Just seen the photo - still in the dark ages on dial up!!!!:E

That looks like him and the huey at redhill?

Bravo73

26th Sep 2007, 16:10

In that case, he will probably be along in a jiffy to tell you exactly why some of Mason's stories are slightly suspect. He goes by the name 'SASless' around these parts! :E

(Of course, if you do a quick search for 'Chickenhawk', you will probably find his previous posts on the topic.)

And yep, that's when the Huey visited Redhill in 2005.

Sgtfrog

26th Sep 2007, 16:14

B73,
Thanks for that - I'll check the previous posts if its all been said before...

Just read a couple of the related threads, I'll also look for the the Low Level Heli book. :ok:

ScrumpyLuvver

26th Sep 2007, 20:40

SASLess

If you read this, I have not read any of the books mentioned yet so no opinions.. (Still struggling to get through the technical ones first) Just wanted to find out if you are going to be flying in to Helitech? Love to see that huey up close..

SL

Whirlygig

26th Sep 2007, 20:47

I happen to know, from my very good friend Sassy Dahling, that he can't make it to Helitech this year as he can't get a cat-sitter!

Cheers

Whirls

Although I offered to cat-sit!

Bravo73

26th Sep 2007, 20:49

ScrumpyLuvver,

You might be better off asking H1HU (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=117853). He's the gent who actually owns G-UH1H. (I think that SASless was only involved at the beginning of the project, to help with the type training.)

But, looking at the events section of the website (http://www.huey.co.uk/), unfortunately it doesn't look like it will be at Helitech.

HTH

Chukkablade

26th Sep 2007, 22:52

Got to be said, the story behind that restoration is awe inspiring, and I absolutely, unreservedly tip my hat to those who turned that machine from the storage depot basket case she was to the honey she is today.

I wonder how much a type rating on that thing costs?:E It'd be a talking point sown the pub, having that on your ticket, thats for sure!

kiwi chick

26th Sep 2007, 23:01

I hadn't started flying heli's when I read the book, but I almost felt I COULD, he was so descriptive!

Read it again after training, and WOW. :ok: :ok:

Made me laugh with his training ("you see the tree I mean?") :D and made me cry with his harrowing experiences. :{

Would have to be one of the best books I've ever read. :ok:

Chukkablade

26th Sep 2007, 23:08

Dont read the second one then. I did. Bad mistake. I still have it somewhere if anyone wants it.

One of my old Captains, who in a more maudlin moment or two, used to say that certain periods define a mans life, and the sadness is that they can't maintain that standard post conflict. That it would have been better for some had they not made it through a conflict, to let them die the hero, untarnished, and remembered as such.

Read that second book, and I could almost agree with him.:suspect:

brain fade

26th Sep 2007, 23:10

I'm not a helo pilot.

But this is the best flying book i've ever read.

I think the mesage here is, fly the thing enough and eventually your GH skills start to build up. Then fly it a lot more, maybe 100x more, and they get very good. Then fly it millions more and your GH skills start to really come on.

Thats 'Chickenhawk'!

A great flying book.

Chukkablade

26th Sep 2007, 23:12

For a rather more British take on heroism and greatness being thrust upon you, then read 'First Light' by Wellum.

I have a signed copy, and if the house goes on fire, then it goes down the pajamas and out the door with me.

Awesome, awesome book.

kiwi chick

26th Sep 2007, 23:15

Oh, I so get what you mean.

I just finished reading "Flags of Our Fathers" [brilliant read by the way] and the same thing happened to one of the flagraisers, Ira Hayes.

Was very very sad :{ :{ :{ :{ :{ Haven't cried that much in a long time ;)

Chukkablade

26th Sep 2007, 23:18

Dont know that one. Brief synopsis please?

kiwi chick

26th Sep 2007, 23:37

The taking of "Iwo Jima" from the Japanese during WWII - they needed the island as a mid-point for their attacks on Japan. It was a long, drawn out battle that had initially expected to take only a couple of days.

(I fear I may piss off some americans if i get this even slightly wrong - deep breath girl...)

Ended up being one of the biggest casualties of the Pacific war. When they took Mt Surabachi on the southern tip of the island, they climbed up and placed an American flag. All the ships and troops and everyone around cheered, thought it was fantastic, and one of the bosses in decided he wanted the original flag himself.

So, they took the little flag down and replaced it with a second flag, and as the six marines were hoisting it up, the infamous photo was taken.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x105/kiwiflygirl/iwoflagraising.gif

The photo quickly circulated worldwide and became the iconic "image" to the American citizens of the capture of the island - before it was able to be confirmed that this was the replacement flag, not the original.

Three of the flagraisers died on the island, and the remaining three returned to America as heroes - which they did not take any comfort from and felt undeserved of it. Their famous quote to everyone was:

[B]"The real heroes of Iwo Jima were the guys who didn't come back."

The man that wrote the book is the son of Doc Bradley, one of the flagraisers, and he follows their lives from beginning to end.

It really, truly is a fantastic read - I couldn't put it down. The movie is good as well, but IMHO the book is way better.

Chukkablade

26th Sep 2007, 23:43

Thanks Kiwi, I appreciate the time taken to post that.

I'll order the same off Amazon, cheers:ok:

Need a good book right now. Just finished reading 'Fatal Traps' again:ouch:

kiwi chick

26th Sep 2007, 23:45

Actually, the author, James Bradley, has written another book called "Flyboys" which is based on the island Chi Chi Jima, in the pacific as well.

I read this book first which is what lead me to Flags.

Flyboys is a good book as well, but quite [dare I say it, here she goes again!] Americanised!

Nine pilots are shot down and captured and it tells their story. It certainly opened my eyes to the horrors that some people are capable of. :{

kiwi chick

26th Sep 2007, 23:47

Hey no worries! I Loooooooove reading and am always happy for others to enjoy a good book as much as i do!

Will be checking out the book you recommended, btw! ;)

As for "Fatal Traps" - has a permanent place beside my bed! Great read! :ok:

Chukkablade

26th Sep 2007, 23:54

Your not wrong about the horrors Kiwi. One of my grandfathers was an Officer in the Cameronians (Scottish Regiment). I heard all about the capacity of the Japanese to inflict torture from him. He was a career soldier who met with many of the veterans of that conflict.

Not good.:(

TheMonk

27th Sep 2007, 00:07

Kiwi Chick,

I read Flyboys, great book. Saw the movie, totally unrelated, but not bad either.

Gonna get "Chickenhawk".

Monk

kiwi chick

27th Sep 2007, 00:36

I saw the mooooovie too.

But unfortunately it was after the first day at the Omaka Airshow and I had partaken in a little wine drinking... and thought it wise to smuggle another bottle into the picture theatre (which was very adeptly carried out, I might add ;) )

All I can remember is that there were a couple of aircraft flying around and Martin Henderson was in it. :ok: :E

teeteringhead

27th Sep 2007, 07:56

And in addition to the strategic value of Iwo Jima, it had great propaganda value.

It was the first part of the pre-war Japanese "Empire" to be taken by the allies. Up to that point we were only getting back what the Japs had taken from us......

spinwing

27th Sep 2007, 17:34

Mmmmmmm ........

Well if you want another good (sometimes hilarious) read of the Vietnam persuasion.....

Try "Dear Mom, I'm Alive!" (letters home from Blackwidow25)

By a buddy of mine Randolph P. Mains.

You'll need to do a search for the ISBN

Cheers :ok:

What Limits

27th Sep 2007, 17:40

Recently finished watching the two films back to back and would thoroughly recommend them both

Flags of our Fathers
Letters from Iwo Jima.

jonnyloove

27th Sep 2007, 18:20

Its am amazing book to read. Shame no one has made it into a film yeat it would be great I would watch it.

Chukkablade

27th Sep 2007, 18:26

There has been talk of turning it into a movie for years now. A friend of mine has a brother who works in Hollywood, and even as a lowly spark/SFX bloke he has heard that old chestnut getting bandied around for over 10 years. At least one major studio has done an evaluation on it, or so he claims.

(he is usually pretty accurate in what he tells us when home, so?)

mlc

27th Sep 2007, 18:57

I'll second LOW LEVEL HELL by Hugh Mills as an excellent read. 'Chickenhawk' may or may not be suspect, but it's also a great book.

A few others I've read recently:- 'Snake Pilot' by Randy Zahn, 'Taking Fire' by Ron Alexandre (very good) and a fixed wing read 'When Thunder rolled' by Ed Rasimus (F105 over North Vietnam).

Recommend all of them.

Aser

27th Sep 2007, 19:02

related: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=237831&highlight=vietnam+book

pithblot

28th Sep 2007, 13:02

Chukkablade, KC,

Johnny Cash: Ira Hayes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdBZJIuHdck&mode=related&search=)

ScrumpyLuvver

28th Sep 2007, 21:39

Unfortunately I am guessing that the studio that did the "evaluation" probably bought the "option". They will then hold that option "just in case" until another studio or independant asks to buy the option for a much larger sum than the original price.. Happens to thousands of books...

Fingers crossed someone very rich in the industry sees it's worth in the box office as a prety cool action flick.. any ideas for the lead??

SASless

29th Sep 2007, 13:19

Iwo Jima....one of three Marines killed in combat during WWII died at Iwo.

More Marines died taking Iwo than the Japanese lost defending it.

If the same casualty rate was applied to Iraq.....we would have gone through two and one half Marine Corps.

If we broke down "Chickenhawk" into individual accounts....it would take several Blue Star's full of pilots....but supposedly that is the truth of the matter. The author is reputed to have "borrowed" most of the action sequences per those that were there at the same time.

Good yarn not withstanding that.

Peter-RB

29th Sep 2007, 22:18

What happened to the Edit ability of original headlines, anyway, I have a question ,

I am threeparts through the Chickenhawk and find some of the comments rather difficult to agree with, such as

Chopping branches or boughs from trees, surely that would completly spoil your day as far as rotor blades go, considering the materials available from the 60s that would have made such blades,

I realise that a conflict or war situation would be involved and performance and load would be exceeded many times if some nasty was chucking lead at you, but is it really possible to exceed such limits to such extents even in the UH1.

Having met Sasless and friend from Wesham I would be interested to hear what they have to say about such comments. oor other UH1 drivers

Not to form any argument but just to understand if written comments are , or could be true!

Peter R-B
VFR

eagle 86

29th Sep 2007, 22:37

In my opinion a collection of anecdotes.
GAGS
E86

droop_snoot

29th Sep 2007, 23:23

i prefered "the price of exit" by tom marshall to chickenhawk, although both very good...

Bronx

30th Sep 2007, 10:39

Sgtfrog

There's a good thread on the Huey here.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=184078

Whole lot of information and a PIREP about the Huey in the picture posted by Bravo73 from about posts #300 forward.

B.

SASless

30th Sep 2007, 13:05

Hover Holes....places in the triple canopy jungle where one cannot hover vertically but must maneuver around limbs, tree snags, and stumps. Leafy green tree limbs cut nicely but bamboo ruins the blade. The downward airflow from the rotor system sometimes "pulled" the tree limbs down to cause a decrease in size of the open area.

Using "hover holes" required the full crew....gunners to call directions to the pilots....one really learned to trust the crew in back and allow them to "direct" the aircraft away from the obstacles. I can recall more than a few occasions where it took a couple of tries to get out without hitting tree limbs that would have caused real problems. Just think of a "rat's maze" and that is what it was like sometimes.

Yes....chopping your way in and/or out happened during Vietnam Operations...but usually only in true emergencies such as evacuating critically wounded soldiers or rescuing down air crew.

The Huey blade is pretty durable....as is the Chinook blade.

NickLappos

30th Sep 2007, 14:32

PeterRB,

I can attest to weight/performance exceedance as daily occurrences and tree/foliage chopping as perhaps weekly. When life is at stake, and the mission is a tough one, the machine is a tool, and you use it to the absolute edge of its capability.

The Cobras I flew (AH-1G with T53-L13 engines) were MGW at 9500 pounds. I was the unit IP, and once did a weight and balance on each of the 9 aircraft we had (6 flyable any given day). The lightest one on the flightline, mission ready with crew, was 10,700 pounds with 1200 pounds of gas on board (about 2 hours to burnout, standard for our unit.) I went to the unit commander, and told him we had to fix this. He told me to do it, and just let him know what I left out, "the bullets or the gas!" Naturally, the issue stopped there. We changed rotor heads every 300 hours (2 months) and engines at about the same rate. The typical performance limited hover was less than 6 inches at initial takeoff. On a windless day over dirt, we had to bounce the aircraft to get through translational lift, which took about 100 yards of skipping and thumping. Once at a refuel point called Hawk Hill in I corps, I nearly clipped the barbed wire concertina that was 150 yards down a slight hill during takeoff, the wire was a standard roll, perhaps 30 inches in diameter. 30 inches altitude in 150 yards!

Cutting down small trees and brush were not done daily, but if a unit was in distress and that was what the AC saw on short final, having already made the approach (short final before the hover was the most exposed part of the landing) you MUST pick up the guys, or they might shoot you down if you chickened out. The Huey blades had stout aluminum spars and were capable of taking down a 2 inch branch with relatively cosmetic damage, maybe a wrinkle on the abrasion strip, and more often a tear on the skin below and aft of the strip. Those blades were changed that night, and ended up as bar rails at the club, or walkways to the latrine and showers. Some units could pave the area around the maintenance shed with old blades, literally. Too bad I didn't know to buy Bell stock then!

The rule that we followed was something the the military has forgotten in this period of unrelenting semi-war on the cheap, it was the same rule the air forces used in WWII. If the machine brought you home, that was enough, period. The bombs you dropped and the gas you burned were gone, too, so if the machine had to be used up like a pair of flashlight batteries, too bad. The service knew it, and expected it, the mission was everything. In the battle of Britain, the RAF ended the battle with more fighters than they started with, (but far fewer pilots) so machine was merely a tool.

A landing craft was worth 5 trips to the beach, max. A Spitfire engine in the Battle of Britain was tossed at 10 hours. A B-17 was routinely flown at 20% over max gross weight, and tossed at 10 to 20 missions, if it made it that far. My fathers unit, the 94th BG at Bury St. Edmunds, Norwich, launched 25 bombers on a typical maximum effort mission, and lost about 273 Fortresses during the war. That means that in 2 years, the unit was entirely wiped out and reformed more than 10 times!

Sacrifice in war should start with the machine, and then maybe go to the crew, as a last resort.

Brilliant Stuff

30th Sep 2007, 15:33

Thanks for that insight again Nick. I feel humbled.

SASless

30th Sep 2007, 20:39

Nick,

During the Cambodia Incursion in 1970 we had CH-47A model Chinooks with Lycoming T-55-L7C engines......SOP external loads were limited to 8,000 pounds for us.....6,500 pounds for 1st AirCav Chinooks.

We burned off a thousand pounds of fuel on the first 8,000 pound load then started with double loads. One count of 105mm Pro Joes showed us at 16,800 pounds. There were times we argued about how to clear the three foot high barbed wire fence around the resupply area.

It was possible to do a running takeoff with a 3/4 ton weapons carrier inside and one on the sling....the trick was to have a guy steer the external vehicle until we got ETL then he jumped off.

The major trick was landing....invaribly the front wheels turned to one side or the other during flight and timing was of the essence to allow the vehicle to touch down simultaneously with the release of the cargo hook. Watching the runaway wagon with a posse chasing it was good fun however.

Peter-RB

30th Sep 2007, 21:03

Nick and Sasless,

Your answers as ever fill the void that many of us have, thank you for your really concise and well explained answers, and like many I feel humbled that you are prepared to give us this sort of background detail.

Never the less " Chickenhawk" is exceptional in giving much detail but just enough to make you understand what is happening, like I said in my opening post " its almost like being in the jump seat!"

My regards

Peter R-B

Vfrpiltpb

Sasless, I met you about 2 years ago when you came up to the Ribble valley to look at the "Private Army Hardware"

SASless

1st Oct 2007, 14:00

Peter,

That was a very memorable day......what an amazing Toy Box! I loved hearing the old radial engine on the SP Howitzer! I very much appreciated the visit and the hospitality I was shown. I have seen nothing in this country that could begin to compare. :D

jessie13

2nd Oct 2007, 03:11

Try reading "In the Company of Heroes" by Michael J Durant. A good insight to the Special Operations Squadron community and his capture in Sommalia in 1993.:)

topendtorque

2nd Oct 2007, 12:39

"In the Company of Heroes"

Is that the one immortalised as "Blackhawk Down"? A Self effacing journey of how you can be - ten feet tall and bullet proof one minute - and - less significant than dried horse manure - the next.

I am positive that if I was to fly in those sorts of situations where at hover your T/R disc presents a perfect target for anything longer than a foot or so, at any fair speed, that I would work out how to have the power off in a blink. Just my two bobs worth - and experience of T/R failure, in the hover.

"Armed Conflict" by James Newton DFC was a good read. Iraq War, 847 sqdn I think.

On a similar vein I have just noted that the Australian Dynasties program - an ox ABC event on thursday PM - that the Leahy Brothers from New Guionea will feature. Had the pleasure of being seated beside one of the family at a wedding in Brisbane a few years ago. I think he was a knighted gentleman, certainly he had lots to do with aviation in that country, both rotary and the other.

MSP Aviation

2nd Oct 2007, 12:46

"Black Hawk Down" by Mark Bowden was the book immortalized as "Black Hawk Down." "In the Company of Heroes" is the autobiography of the US pilot who was downed and held captive for a while.

Durant explains that the "centrifugal" force caused by the tail rotor failure prevented the co-pilot from reaching up and cutting the power levers (mounted on the overhead in the Blackhawk). It is an interesting point that you raise, though. They knew they'd been hit near the TR, so it is surprising the PNF wasn't "covering" the power levers just in case... Hindsight's 20/20.

Tailspin Tommy

10th Oct 2007, 14:13

Nick,

I enjoyed your recount of the what we had to fly and the overloaded, under-powered aircraft. I flew with the 101st, 4/77 ARA. And, I'll say it for you; Yes, I have a Purple Heart because of the skin rash from my oxygen mask. We operated Charlie Models (UH-1C), heavy hog (M-3 kit-48 rockets) and an M-5 Chunker (40mm) on the nose. Engine was the T53-L11. About two months before Hamburger Hill we were issued the AH-1G. 76 rockets and two 40mm. The only differance was we still needed around 800 to 1000 feet to bounce into translational lift, but could cruise at 110knots instead of 80 knots.
Both aircraft made a pilot develop good control touch, or die.

Ah, those were the days..Thank God they're gone.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the novel CW2! Written by Layne Heath, who did two tours, the first with the 158th,located down the runway from us at Camp Evans (located just north of Hue). I found it more accurate than Chickenhawk. Hawk was more a list of events that would usually not happen to one small unit.

It's been four years snce my last VHPA. Time to go back and collect more stories.

Griffin33F

Darkhorse30

10th Oct 2007, 16:46

I was with Hugh Mills in RVN in 1969 and I can attest that some of what was written in "Low Level Hell" actually happened to other guys. I suspect that the ghost writer put the stuff in to make the book more interesting. The unit was Troop D(AIR), 1/4 Cav and was the only organic Air Cav Troop in the 1st Infantry Division. When the 1st Infantry Division stood down in April 1970, the Troop D outfit was renamed Troop C , 16th Cav and we were sent to Soc Trang and later Can Tho in the Mekong Delta in IV Corp. We retained the same people (almost), aircraft, call signs, and even radio frequencies. I think that the only people that went home stateside (Ft. Riley, Kansas) were the Commanding General and maybe the Sergent Major.

I was later assigned to the Cobra school at Hunter AAF after my tour and Hugh came through the Cobra qualification course enroute to RVN again, and Back to Troop C. I last saw him at the VHCMA convention in San Antonio in 2005. I think he is working on another book.
As for Cambodia, Troop C was involved for about three weeks in May 1970, actually about 2 weeks after the first incursions at the "Parrots Beak" in III Corp.

My impression of the unit compared to others is that we flew a lot more than any of them. I left with 1277 hours of combat assault and we had a couple of pilots that had over 1400 hours, all in one year. It was mostly "pink" teams and a lot of guys got shot up. It was not a pretty time and few of us stayed in the flying game. There is a Dark Horse web site that you can visit which was put together by one of our Huey crew chiefs. It is darkhorsevietnam.com.

I still fly and am fortunate to earn part of my living flying a UH-1H on contract for the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics looking for idiots that grow marijuana outside. We do this in the Eastern 1/2 of the state. I like doing it because these cops are the good guys.

ericferret

10th Oct 2007, 18:59

I remember going for a front seat ride in a Cobra out of Illesheim (spelling?) near Frankfurt
in 1974/5. Making small talk to the pilot I asked about the auto capability.

Okay he said, we've just been shot down and into the auto we went.

At that point the difference between british and american pilot became apparent.

British pilots had practice engine failures american pilots got shot down.

Many thanks to that american pilot who made my year and gave me a tiny insight into the Vietnam experience.

heliski22

10th Oct 2007, 22:23

I hadn't previously heard the comments about the various anecdotes in Chickenhawk being a collection of other people's rather than exclusively Mason's own experiences. It does seem possible that incidents which happened to others might have been added to fill out the story, as it were. Still, it was a great read - 17 years ago, both times!! The first was when I was interested in helicopters and felt I understood how they worked. The second, and much more enjoyable read, was as I began and worked through my flight training.

Many years later, in the comfortable confines of a corporate IR twin, the simple hover practice still stands out.

Paraphrasing.......

"You're an ace, son!"

"But I was all over the field, sir!"

"Never mind, son, we'll just practice in smaller fields!"

I had a similar, smilingly cynical ex-military instructor for my PPL training and one day during hover practice, the instruction was to establish a stable hover pointed at a tall chimney standing high over a nearby town. 4 sweaty, white-knuckled, ninety-degree turns later, the chimney appeared again on the nose.

"Well now," he said. "There's a stroke of luck!"

Or the Vietnam vet who did my conversion to the 206 as a 60-hour PPL in California. Barely an hour into the training, he chopped the throttle coming over a ridge and watched as I aimed it into a large open field. And kept on watching while I continued towards the field without seeing the powerlines.

Back at the airfield, he said, "Son, you doing a outstanding job. You can get the bird started up, get it in the pattern and come on back and put it on the ground. But if the engine quits, you gonna be on the six-o'clock news with film at eleven!"

Not forgetting the hardship endured by those who served in Vietnam and, indeed, in all other theatres, Chickenhawk is still a top read.

I must look up the others mentioned in the thread.

Senior Pilot

11th Oct 2007, 10:18

Darkhorse30,

Welcome to Rotorheads, and for your insight into your time in RVN. Can we look forward to some more posts from from you on your work in Oklahoma? :ok:

Senior Pilot

Darkhorse30

11th Oct 2007, 14:35

I have spent part of the last four summers working for OBNDDC (Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control) using the UH-1H as a platform for insertions, rapeling, stabo, as well as spot spraying marijuana plants. I always fly with a load of Narc agents and these guys are one tough bunch. For spraying we use a 30 gallon tank with pump and a 100 ft. hose with a single solenoid controlled nozzle. I will hover over the plant(s) and an a couple of agents will lower the hose/nozzle, position the Huey, and spray. The herbicide is Round Up mixed with red dye. This last summer we eradicated about 2500 plants, which is a lot less than years past. Sometimes we land and the Narcs cut the plants down or use backpack sprayers and haul it out. We have killed/cut some plants that are 14 ft tall.

As a side issue I usually spend several flight hours training Narc. agents from all over the US in rapel and stabo operations, usually in the late spring. The OBNDDC runs an Air Assault school in Oklahoma every year.

Not much else to add except that the Company I run does Engineering work on various helicopters for STC's. We have in the past developed the kits and obtained FAA Certification on Hueys with PT6C-67D engine, LHTEC T800 engine, Tail Rotor Enhancement Kits, etc.

majmun

11th Oct 2007, 18:13

I just read Chickehawk over the weekend. The edition I read had an extra section devoted to Mason explaining some of those inconsistancies and also revealing the real names of many of the personalities in the book. I don't know enough about the background of the book to make a catagorical judgement, but he seemed believable enough. In any case, thank you all for the recommendation.

I've also read Low Level Hell, which I recommend highly.

chopper2004

11th Oct 2007, 19:48

my all time favourite bought for my xmas by one of my best mates, is Snake Pilot by Randy Zahn. Randy was at tiem fo wirting cheif pilot for ERA Helicopters in Alaska probably pre buyout/merger with Texair.

Another classic is Dustoff by the now late Michael Novostiel, the decorated WW2 bomber pilot and post war pilot and Air Force Reserve Lt Col who volunteered for Warrant Officer Candidate School /Army Flight School and went to Vietnam.

rotorrookie

12th Oct 2007, 00:20

I worked on the movie "Flags of our fathers" and " Letters from Iwo Jima" (wich I think is better of the two) when it was shot here in Iceland, the innovation scene and the flag raise scene as helicopter ground crew supervisor then and did some flying too, great time. It was really privledge to work with Clint and his crew.
It got me to read the book and I'm glad I did before I saw the film, even tought both movies are great the book is far better like they usually are....

But Chickenhawk is the best of all. I say and have said before they should make a movie of it.

ericferret

12th Oct 2007, 09:59

In "Dustoff" (Michael Novosel) the part where he describes flying over the island from which he flew B29s in WW2 on his way to Vietnam is special.

Looking over my shoulder at the book case

Chickenhawk (hardback first edition none of your paperback rubbish!!!!)
Snake Pilot
Dustoff
Year of the Horse

The comments on the accuracy of Chickenhawk are reminiscent of the arguments surrounding "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer.

This book describes the activities of a Frenchman from Alsace conscripted into the German army in WW2. His story of life on the Russian front is remarkable and difficult to put down.
Anyone who was glued to Chickenhawk should read this one.

Semi Rigid

14th Oct 2007, 11:07

As far as my feet will carry me.

Crow Killer - The Johannes (Liver Eating) Johnson story

chopper2004

14th Oct 2007, 19:45

Also don't forget

1.
1 Chinook: Special Forces Flight inWar and Peace by Dave McMullon
2 From Hot Air to Hellfire: History of Army Aviation by James W Bralin
3 US Navy Seawolves The Elite HAL-3 Squadron in Vietnam by Daniel E Kelly

tbtstt

16th Oct 2007, 16:07

Of the books I've read, "Low Level Hell" (Hugh Mills) I cite as by far and away the best read (even more so than Chickenhawk).

"In The Company Of Heroes" could have been a much better book if the writing standard had been a bit higher, I felt the whole read was a bit dumbed down though. Durants second book, "Night Stalkers" is quite an interesting read (and has a higher writing standard - i attribute that to the presence of a c-writer) though it retells others stories (specifically 160th SOAR pilots) rather than his own.

BusinessMan

16th Oct 2007, 18:27

Having read a few (Chickenhawk, Low Level Hell, Snake Pilot etc) I'd recommend 'Maverick' by Dennis Marvicsin and Jerold Greenfield as the best. Absolutely brilliant if you really want to get inside the head of someone going through Vietnam as a helo pilot. Marvicsin did 2 tours (Huey's & Cobras) and ended up as a POW, quite a story and very engagingly written.

Other than that, Low Level Hell is well up there.

Peter-RB

16th Oct 2007, 21:26

Being the one who started this thread I feel that I owe all you guys who have replied with true knowledge and suggestions of other " Good reads" a big thank you for your input.
Reading "Chickenhawk" has been a riviting and might I say an awsome book in the way the detail of flying the UH-1 is written, after the truly great input from Sasless and Nick Lappos, what I was reading seemed all the more real. Very few of us here on PPrune have ever been in the position where nasty people are throwing lead your way so we have never needed to spool up and get up in as many seconds as was suggested in the book but with the help from two of the real gentlemen from the Pprune bunch it seems this was every day life for the guys out in the big green, I am now starting to look for the other titles suggested by many of you and finish by saying... .... Thankyou all.

My regards to you all

Peter Russell-Blackburn
Vfrpilotpb

Gaseous

16th Oct 2007, 22:24

Yes, some good books here. I've had plenty of time to read since my back surgery and will probably read a couple more before they give me back my medical certificate. (3 months at least - bugger). Why the new user name Peter? just curious.
Phil

K48

17th Oct 2007, 10:46

Ivan....
:ugh:
Oh Dear that was me in my PPL. I apologise on behalf of all of us past students..!!!
And I still curve to the right exiting confines... :{

(while keeping a sharp eye out for Charlie of course)

VfrpilotPB/2

17th Oct 2007, 16:20

Gaseous,

Nice to hear from you again, reason for new handle was my office at home was slightly altered by some vagrant with a box of matches, from the wreckage I just managed to salvage the hard drive of my system but sadly lost a shed load of info and much valued bits and pieces from my past life, by the time I had worked my way back to Pprune there system wouldnt recognise my old handle from a new E mail address, so I just had to start again, so now I am registered here at my place of work as Vfrpilotpb/2 and from home as Peter-RB, it seems to work and I am happy that I am able to converse again with many old friends.

Next time you want to go to Whitwell I'll buy you lunch!

Peter R-B/ Vfrpilotpb:D

Gaseous

17th Oct 2007, 17:08

Arson. Thats not good.

You're on for Whitewell, I'll give you a shout when I get my licence back. Cheers
Phil.

Peter-RB

17th Oct 2007, 20:24

Phil
Possibly not arson , but some poor person who was much maligned at school and was not spoken to properly by his teachers, so cos of that he took to drinking strong larger and smoking wacky baccy by the time he was 14yrs, then by 17yrs he took to sleeping under the stars cos no one understood him and purely cos he wanted to keep warm he decided to have a little camp fire, but cos he didnt want to be seen he lit said camp fire behind a nice wooden building attached to a big garage in a wood, not any wood , but my wood against my nice wooden office attached to my nice garage, however his daddy said he really was a good boy at heart, just misunderstood, so cos he was misunderstood and needed to keep warm part of my history and many precious things were vapourised.

Sad really init, we all work hard try to play by the rules, and because some snotty manic depressive brat cant see right from wrong, many other poeple have to pick up the charred bits afterwards.

Is it me, am I cynical or am I to old to feel empathy with the majority of the youth of today.:ouch:

Peter R-B:(

ES , why no licence?

Gaseous

17th Oct 2007, 22:32

Join the club Peter. We're too old. Why no license?

Medical certificate actually. These pics show it all. You dont need to be a doctor to see its bust at the bottom:{ They wont give me a medical until at least January.
totally off topic but hey, it's your thread.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/avenuedentistry/back1.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/avenuedentistry/back2.jpg

K48

17th Oct 2007, 23:58

Gaseous... OUCH how did you do that?

(Handsome pictures of you btw!;))

K48

18th Oct 2007, 00:05

No discipline... the route of most of society's problems... sorry to hear that...
How hard is it to stop an accidental growth of your camp fire? Unless he was 'stoned'/ out cold /left the fire without putting all cinders out..? If he made the fire against the wood wall then that would be arson I imagine.
Still.. I guess you can't dwell on what's happened too long as it can't be undone now. An awful shame though. Sorry:(

wokkameister

18th Oct 2007, 00:10

I found 'Chinook' to be absolute garbage, and I operate them. Try 'In the company of Hero's' by Michael Durant (Blackhawk Down) or, 'Not a good day to die'.

WM

Gaseous

18th Oct 2007, 00:11

k48.
25 years of dentistry and 2 seconds with an enthusiastic chiropractor...allegedly.:mad:

PS, back on topic. The Michael Durant book is great. just finished it:ok:

Semi Rigid

18th Oct 2007, 10:09

Anybody read 'Fate is the hunter'? Appreciate some feedback good bad or indifferent....
'Rotor in the green' - autobiography.Aussie service's pilot
'Take off - The HNZ story' very very good.Surperb photography.Collectors.$60NZD
'So you want to become a helicopter pilot' - still relavent
'Fatal traps for helicopter pilots' -volume 1000000!

Jarvy

18th Oct 2007, 10:36

The Price of Exit by Tom Marshall gets my vote, had a tear in my eyes a few times reading it.
Not sure if available in UK bought mine on trip to US.
Jarvy

VfrpilotPB/2

18th Oct 2007, 10:49

Phil,

Sorry to see the picture of your back, but your Kidneys seem still to be able to pass good ale, perhaps I will pick you up by car or other means, I will be in touch, also I will beg a read of the Durant book.

Peter RB

thekite

18th Oct 2007, 11:26

I was a flying instructor at the time that I read "Chicken Hawks".
I had had instructors myself whose normal instructional patter was along the lines of "Get the f**** power in you ###!" or almost as bad, the casual drawled "In your own time, you might like to get the collective down - save us dying today". Sarcasm and understatement; one as bad as the other in the learning process.
I was not going to use either of those approaches, as I could see that it simply made students either fearful or unthinking robots, motivated only by the snarl of the instructor's voice.
Instead I used the word "must" instead of shouted abuse or silky disdain. This was a very successful term which gave confidence and clear instruction to the student.
Back to the thread! I was cheered to see that Mason as an instructor, apparently used "must" in his briefings and patter, for I imagine the same reasons as me. ::D
Notwithstanding his later drug problems, he had been a thinking and sympathetic Instructor Pilot in his better days. :ok:
thekite

BJC

22nd Oct 2007, 03:50

I met Mason (Chickenhawk author) a few years ago, believe it or not, wandering around a helicopter museum. At a loss for words (for probably the only time in my life) and not wanting to ask the same questions that I'm sure every other reader asked I told him that I found the ending really surprising.

His response: "So did I".

Just proving that you can't imagine what it would be like flying in those conditions unless you've been there.
I first read the book as a brand new Twin Huey co-pilot flying in Haiti - quite an eye opener for a new pilot far from home. I think I'll start reading it again tonight!

Gerhardt

7th Nov 2007, 01:50

I've read all of the books mentioned here and a few dozen more. Enjoyed most of them, even recognizing a few stories stretched here and there. One not mentioned was Angel's Wing which is an easy read and keeps your attention. I particularly like the fact that the author is not shy about admitting his faults and mistakes made along the way. He referenced his veterans' website where I tracked down his email address and sent him a note telling him I admired his book and was grateful for his service. I was surprised and honored at his gracious response and suggestions of other books I might like. When I said that I'd already read and enjoyed them I received emails from the other authors thanking me for my comments. A good feeling, to be sure.
One common theme in the books is the abundance of hookers that did a brisk business. But almost none of the authors admit to procuring the aforementioned services. hmmm.
I've picked up a few bits and pieces here and there about SASless and Nick Lappos and would give my left arm to hear some of what they've gone through. It would be humbling, without a doubt.
One final note. If you haven't read Dustoff, you're cheating yourself out of a few hours well spent.

Flyin'ematlast

7th Nov 2007, 12:53

I too loved "Chickenhawk" and intend to work my way through the list presented in this thread as time allows.

I have recently read "Ghost Force - The secret history of the SAS" by Ken Connor (ISBN 0-304-36367-7) and had to smile at his fond memory around page 199 of Major Greville Edgecombe ("Low-level Greville") of the army air corps and how he put himself in danger to save others.:ooh: Shades of modern day US EMS operators?

Also, and distinctly off thread, the paragraphs about Michael Bentine (ex goon) being a crack pistol shot, friend of the regiment and ex preuvian secret policeman will bring a wry smile to most who remember his humour.:}

Thanks to all of you who have suggested books that rotary newbies like me can get such inspiration from.

Ian.

southerncanuck

7th Nov 2007, 20:08

though not RW based, "wings on my sleeve" by eric winkle brown is IMHO one of the best
sc

SASless

8th Nov 2007, 00:55

Randy Zahn, who flies/flew for Bristow/UK for years, wrote a good book as well....now if I could just remember the title!:ouch:

reynoldsno1

8th Nov 2007, 01:53

....Snake Pilot ........???????????

SASless

8th Nov 2007, 04:19

That is the very book.....but my all time favorite besides anything Gann or Bach wrote.....is "Terror in the Starboard Seat".....about WWII RAF Mozzie crew. Written in such a manner as to have you splitting yer ribs laughing all the while telling a story that is plain amazing.:D

heliski22

8th Nov 2007, 09:21

Since my earlier posting, I've managed to get through both "Low Level Hell" and "Snake Pilot".

Zahn's tome gets my vote as the better read. In the latter part of his tour, he fell foul of the establishment, in the form of over-ambitious but under-skilled officers. It never ceases to amaze me how such people, with little or no grasp of the practical realities of the challenges facing those in their charge, seem to able to gravitate towards the higher levels in any organisation.

I suppose the Billy Connoly wisdom applies. "The management of (pick your organisation) is a bit like the contents of a septic tank - the bigger pieces always seem to be at the top!"

Or the old military saying - "There are no bad outfits, just bad officers!"

Overall, however, I still prefer "Chickenhawk", which I've started to read again!

Ciao a tutti!

Pbroughal

8th Nov 2007, 16:25

Another vote for "Fate is the Hunter". Not a helicopter in it but still a great read!

heliski22

22nd Nov 2007, 16:44

Since this thread went up, I've read Low Level Hell and Snake Pilot as suggested by various posts. I've also gone back and read Chickenhawk over again. This was the third time, the first two were 17 years ago and you know what? It's still the best with Zahn's Snake Pilot a decent second!

turbinetaxi

2nd Dec 2007, 16:15

another good read along the same lines is "Let a Soldier Die" read it years ago will have to dig it out and read it again, along with the others mentioned !:

mlc

2nd Dec 2007, 18:53

Just finished reading 'Maverick'. Excellent book and only cost 1p used (yes 1p) from the big river site.

Helipolarbear

3rd Dec 2007, 00:48

Hey SASLESS.......when are you gonna give up the goods and write your memoirs (Hopefully with your wonderful sense of humour.....hell, just your posts on PPRUNE should get you started!!!........I do miss reading Lu Z. He should have weitten a few Heli novels!!!:)

IHL

4th Dec 2007, 02:53

Though not a helicopter book , I found "Flying Through Midnight" by John T. Halliday to be quite good. Its about flying in Laos in a C-123 which is a Twin engine radial with 2 jet engines for takeoff. Basically its the adventures of dropping flares [at night] to illuminate targets.

Worth a read.

landseaair69

5th Dec 2007, 23:44

A quick check of the book box (yet to be unpacked again!!) reveals some of the above, but also try:
HAWKS - Andrew Grant, based on the venison wars in NZ's south-west
and for those interested in a bit of chopper history:
CHASING LAST LIGHT - Pearl Ogden, Australian aerial mustering 1968-1978
THE CHOPPER BOYS and THE HELICOPTER HUNTERS - Rex Forrester, NZ deer industry (next to read)
LSA69

The Nr Fairy

6th Dec 2007, 11:36

It's fixed wing, but "When the Thunder Rolled" by Ed Rasimus is a compelling read, not only for the stories about flying operational sorties, but the way it's written, and the personal view of why he was there.

BusinessMan

6th Dec 2007, 16:23

I'd second that, good book. Didn't he also do a later book about his time on F4s? Good to see Maverick getting a mention a few replies ago too

BM

The Nr Fairy

6th Dec 2007, 21:30

Yup - Palace Cobra. Waiting its turn in the queue to be read.

BusinessMan

7th Dec 2007, 16:25

Cheers, should still have time to get that on my list to Santa :ok:

SASless

8th Dec 2007, 14:56

HPB,

Memoirs? I have always considered doing a book but it would be titled "The People I Have Known".

Some of the folks I have had the pleasure of knowing would take more than a single chapter. Men like "The Killer" (reference to Jerry Lee Lewis) who was a ghilly on a large plantation in southern Georgia, "Coffee Crotch" and his little brother "Tanker" (who weighs 300 pounds with a body fat ratio in the lower single digits), "Thumbs", "Squats to Pee", "Horse ****", "Knucks" and a few others stand out.

I have always found myself preferring the company of those who took a big side step and then set out on their life's journey vice those who fell into a rut and rattled back and forth inside that rut all the way through life. Perhaps that is why I consider "real" helicopter pilots to be a very different breed.

Whirlygig

11th Feb 2008, 17:13

This isn't exactly an action book but was bought for me by a colleague at a jumble sale! It's ostensibly for kiddies but it's had me in stitches for most of the day!

Action Seekers' Handbook - Helicopter Pilot (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/0439977428/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-page)

Cheers

Whirls

muermel

11th Feb 2008, 20:13

First book to recommend is "Broken Journey" by Jennifer Murray. It`s about her and Colin Bodill`s attempt to fly a helicopter round the world from pole to pole. A true adventure story which nearly killed them both.

http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Journey-Jennifer-Murray/dp/1903872189/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202763791&sr=1-2

Second one is "Hammer from above" by Jay Stout. It gives great inside views about the air campaign in Iraq in spring 2003. The main focus is any type of mission an Marine Corps aviator has flown at that time. It includes experiences of pilots of F/A-18 Hornets doing CAS, Super Cobra pilots attacking enemy positions, Sea Knights and Super Stallions fliyng CSAR and supplies etc.. Highly interesting to read and gives a pedestrian like me some images what flying in war conditions is about.

http://www.amazon.com/Hammer-Above-Marine-Combat-Over/dp/0891418717/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202764339&sr=1-1

bye

WhirlwindIII

6th Mar 2008, 05:25

I graduated with US Army WORWAC Helicopter Pilot Class 70-5, the subject of classmate Tom Marshall's book The Price of Exit. I'm thankful not to be mentioned therein. Reading in one sitting the loss of 38 classmates, plus four wounded, was a quieting experience.
When I left RVN, having made it through operations in RVN, night ops in Cambodia, and work in Laos, I felt as if I were 75 years old! 365 days as an Army helo pilot in RVN was a very long time. The thing I like about Robert Mason's book Chickenhawk is that it provides a literary window to grasp the feeling as to just how long that year was! Thanks to both Bob and Tom! Good work.

Brilliant Stuff

6th Mar 2008, 06:18

Thanks Whirlwind III.

That is what I struggle with the most, how did you guys get past week two? The fatigue and stresses are beyond me to comprehend.

WhirlwindIII

6th Mar 2008, 07:28

We counted backwards 365, 364, 363, 362 days to DEROS (Date Estimated Return from Over Seas) .... not many thought in terms beyond the present day, and most developed a pretty keen sense of humor no matter the situation. Somtimes a bit macarbe, but humor none the less!
Training, cameraderie and a real desire to positively contribute to the ground troops allowed us to get the job done day after day - we were aware our helicopters were their life line. Usually up by 4AM, brief 4:30, takeoff 5:30, back by 6 or 8pm or so, eat, sleep, do it again. Night ops were unpleasant. The most concern was when dealing with what the military called medium intensity threats (.51 cal, 37mm antiaircraft weapons, tanks, etc.) - no one managed to avoid them in Laos. Tom Marshall makes the point that the price of exit was getting hurt or killed. Couldn't have been said better. The only choice was to make the best of it and get the job done right!

MartinCh

6th Mar 2008, 22:56

thanks muermel,

I'll look into Broken Journey.

For all the folks here, I did read Chickenhawk and find 'Tales of Helicopter Pilot' more interesting than Mason's book. I did enjoy the parts where he was in the training and some humorous situations later on, but as a civilian with no military background (and not ever wishing to have one) I had to force myself a bit to finish the book.. Well, matter of one's taste.

That's the thing. Scouring amazon for some heli novels mostly yielded Vietnam related books. There aren't so many civvy books (ie not full of pointless killing and mutilated bodies/body parts) I could find.

loach

6th Mar 2008, 23:43

Been a while since I read it, and it's not helicopter related, but I seem to remember really enjoying Pak Six by Gene Basel. I had read some of the other 105 pilot books, but remember this one being a stand-out. It seemed more 'written in the moment' somehow. I second the votes for Low Level Hell - brilliant book. Snake Pilot and Chickenhawk ditto.

On a side note, what a pleasure it has been to read some of the posts on this thread. I stumbled in looking for a few book recommendations, only to find that a few of the heroes I enjoy reading about are contributing. Very humbling indeed. I never lose sight of the fact that in learning to fly helicopters, I'm treading in the footsteps of giants.

SASless

6th Mar 2008, 23:53

Marts,

Pointless? Not at all....Runners got you a .5 bonus, squatters (being very small targets) got you .75 bonus....and kids....very hard to hit thus a big 2.0 only topped by preggie women which was called a double bogey and garnered two down downers in the bar that night.:rolleyes:

Killing in war should never be pointless..... otherwise it is just ordinary murder!

Displayed on Phil Connolly's Huey.... G-UHIH!

http://www.huey.co.uk/galleryhuey/26.jpg

WhirlwindIII

7th Mar 2008, 00:52

SASless
A display of RVN humor that got us through the day.

MartinCh
Great point about no interesting books concerning civilian helicopter flying. My military flying is a drop in the bucket, time-wise, compared to civilian work - I've been doing it more than 40 years, all over the world - more or less. Our low level environment is a world apart rich in imagery and circumstance unknown but to us. Time to start writing! :)

loach
One day you'll be a giant!

SASless

7th Mar 2008, 12:44

A US Army helicopter pilot shotdown and captured by the North Vietnamese wrote a fine book on his experiences as a POW and provides an account of his extradtion to Hanoi along the Ho Chi Minh Trail. In his book he notes the various intelligence services had photographs of him while being moved along the trail.

There was no attempt to effect a rescue for him or his group of POW's.

The explanations provided by the US Government as to why there were no attempts made to rescue him prompted him to write his book.

The following link leads to a research effort regarding the 1970 Cambodia Incursion which sheds a lot of light on the various failures of senior commands and political leaders. It also incorporates other embarrassing events that our national leadership probably would rather not hear about.

After reading this lengtht article, one will have a much better appreciation for the individual accounts set forth in the various books listed as being good reads.

It took Keith Nolan's...."Into Cambodia" for me to begin to understand what my daily activities did to contribute to that major action. As is usual in combat operations, one's own perspective is very limited in reach but with hearing the "rest of the story", it means much more.

That link is: http://members.aol.com/spur317f/private/cambodia.htm

500 Fan

7th Mar 2008, 15:07

I'm not sure if its been mentioned in previous posts (can't see it) but my favourite by far is "10,000 Hours" by the late Peter Corley-Smith. It details the author's career as a commercial helicopter pilot in Canada in the pioneering days of the late 50's through to his retirement in the 70's, flying the Bell 47. Corley-Smith flew Stirlings in WWII as well but this gets scant mention. This book captures the 'romance' of being a commercial helicopter pilot brilliantly. Corley-Smith's education in a different era is obvious in his use of the english language (How many books have you read recently which feature the word 'Stevedore'.) and his writing style is very readable. Highly recommended.:ok:

The author of "Low Level Hell", Hugh Mills, is still going strong and is an occasional poster on the "Helikitnews" forum/discussion group.

WhirlwindIII

7th Mar 2008, 20:23

SASless
Interesting A Troop, 3/17th read. I wonder if anyone ran across a Mil 4 Hound type helicopter when operating in the Snuol - Memot - Kratie region.

SASless

7th Mar 2008, 22:03

We had reports of some....never saw any.

The Snoul airstrip was really pretty....pretty green sod...wide...long...well marked. There were two French built light airplanes there when I showed up looking for my customers. I elected to leg it when I realized my Chinook made an enticing target.

The scary part is the NVA had lots of .51 AAA sites along the treeline down the runway and were in the area in mass as evidenced by the big shoot-out that occurred when the 11th Armored Cavalary finally showed up the next day.

Why the NVA let me get away will always be one of the unanswered questions of my life! We were all alone....no friendly troops on the ground....it describes the fire discipline of the NVA.....definitely good troops.

206Fan

7th Mar 2008, 22:44

SASless..

Whos huey is this? Took these last year..

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_30691-1.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_30201.jpg

SASless

8th Mar 2008, 00:17

That is Miss Jo, G-UHIH, Huey 509.....owned by Phil Connolly who keeps the old Lady near Blackpool.

Web site for them is www.huey.co.uk .

Phil, his wife Jo, and all the others involved deserve a lot of credit for what they have accomplished!:D:D:D:D

It is the smoothest flying Huey I have had the pleasure to fly.""

It was also the last helicopter I flew.....in the company of Flying Lawyer on a trip to Redhill from Blackpool.

What a way to finish up!

206Fan

8th Mar 2008, 10:48

Thanks for that SASless.. Very nice site they have and plenty of pics.. I managed to get tlking to his wife about his huey for a bit but didn't get talking to phil, he was getting ready to display her!

WhirlwindIII

8th Mar 2008, 11:19

SASless

What a book we all could write on '71 Snuol, etc. Mil 4? Right under us one night @5nm north of Snuol just east of highway 13 - really large, slow moving rotor, multiple flat plate windscreens, darkish flat brown-green, long cylindrical tailboom, high set tail rotor, lights on only when very close, lights off on the other side. Big surprise. Obviously we reported it and got told it must have seen an OV-1 Mohawk. Having never seen a Soviet design helicopter I'm sure I got the description wrong!? OK, whatever. :ugh: Discovered via internet AA Bell 205 shot one or two down via door gunner; then realized I might not have been mistaken.

mlc

8th Mar 2008, 14:30

Another excellent book that I'm coming to the end of:-

Bury Us Upside Down: The Misty Pilots and the Secret Battle for the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

F100 fast FACS in Vietnam. Told with some humility. Recommended.

FRAG7

10th Mar 2008, 20:00

I was lucky enough to meet Michael Novosel in 2003. Whilst having a coffee he answered any questions I had about his experiences over his long flying career. As is found with people that are awarded their nations highest honours he just said that he was doing his job.
I have my personal signed copy of 'Dustoff' in a pride of place on my bookshelf, an excellent read.

Chickenhawk was a required read on my pilots course.

H1HU

14th Mar 2008, 13:44

Davy07, if you took the photo in Northern Ireland last summer then the display pilot was Neil Airey and the lady you spoke to was his partner, and not Jo.

H1HU.

John Eacott

1st Apr 2008, 10:35

I stumbled across "Rescue Pilot" last week, by Dan McKinnon (ISBN 0-07-139119-3).

Dan (ex Chairman of the CAB, President North American Airlines) joined the USN back in 1956, and had a fascinating time flying Piasecki HUP helicopters, related in this book. Scary stuff, worth it to read of his 62 rescuees picked up in just one 7 month cruise :ok:

Yuri Gagarin

1st Apr 2008, 21:52

"The God Machine" by James R. Chiles.

I have personally met the author at the HELI-EXPO in Houston back in February.

The book goes through the history and development of the helicopter and its industry beginning from Leonardo da Vinci... Very interesting and different point of view of the world in which we live and work!

WylieCoyote

2nd Apr 2008, 20:26

I don't think anybody has mentioned it yet but `Not a good day to die' by Sean Naylor is worth a look, it's an account of Operation Anaconda carried out by 101st Airborne and the 10th Mountain Division in Afghanistan March 2002.
It's been a while since I read it but two accounts from it I particularly remember,a Casevac by a Chinook where the crew took the machine to 170kts IAS which I'm guessing is well past vne (I've know experience on a Chinook,maybe someone who has could verify whether that's exceptional) and then perform somthing called an Australian Decel,(again no idea maybe somone else could help?).
Another account is of an Apache crew who get pretty badly shot up,land and discover amonst other things, a cracked main rotor blade and no oil in the MGB,whilst taking fire they empty their spare tins of oil into the MGB and set off on a 36min flight back to safety,apparently the GB can take 30mins with no oil, I won't ruin it incase you read it.
I thought it was good read, a good insight if nothing else into whats happening in Afghanistan.

daver_777

7th Apr 2008, 05:26

I simply have to recommend TO THE LIMIT by T. A JOHNSON, a really great read, about the Air Cav in Vietnam. Surprised it hasn't popped up in this thread earlier?. Better than Chickenhawk i reckon.

Cheers

Daver_777

allanon1980

11th Sep 2008, 11:50

Just puttin an order into amazon. Anyone recommend some good heli books, not so much theory, principles of flight etc more real life....

topendtorque

11th Sep 2008, 12:07

There's a comprehensive thread not far away on the subject, perhaps one of the minders wouldn't mind doing a merge.

In the meantime you could start with the one about bein' a piano player in a whorehouse, it's kind of clandestine and gets better by the page, involves some of our threads funny personalities, in fact all sorts of odd bods are liable to jump out at you. It prepares you to be prepared to look over your shoulder, bit like real life in the rotary jungle.
cheers tet

206 jock

11th Sep 2008, 12:08

Just finished 'Apache Dawn', story of a flight tour to Helmand in summer 2007 by the Army Air Corps. Surprisingly well written, not the usual sensationalist nonsense. Have now passed onto my son in the hope that it gives him some inspiration.....

£10 hardcover from Tesco (that's a UK supermarket, if you're not a Brit).

allanon1980

11th Sep 2008, 12:25

Im Irish but we do have tesco here!!!! Just got electricity too last week :)

500e

11th Sep 2008, 17:07

AC or DC.???:E

MightyGem

11th Sep 2008, 20:00

Apache (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apache-Ed-Macy/dp/0007288166/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221163010&sr=1-1) by Ed Macy, one of the pilots who took part in the rescue at Jugroom Fort.

Book Description
An astonishing first book, Apache is a story of courage, comradeship, technology and tragedy, during the ongoing war in Afghanistan. 'Apache' is the first book to come from the cockpit of the most sophisticated fighting helicopter the world has ever known. Designed in the mid 1980s to take on the Soviets, these machines have proven themselves as the perfect tool for combat in Afghanistan. Ed Macy's account of the incredibly hard Apache selection process, tougher than that of the SAS, combined with his description of the sheer difficulty of flying one of these helicopters provides a fascinating insight into the relationship between man and machine fighting in the toughest conditions imaginable. The climactic build-up to the rescue mission at Jugroom Fort is both dramatic and deeply moving. The rescue of Lance Corporal Mathew Ford has been hailed as one of the most remarkable and daring rescues of modern wartime and Ed's bravery on the ground at Jugroom Fort led to him being awarded the Military Cross - one of the first in the Army Air Corps' history. Taking the reader right to the heart of the war in Afghanistan, 'Apache' offers an unprecedented degree of proximity to the action and horror that troops in the region are faced with on a daily basis. Gripping from the first page to the last, it is utterly compelling and impossible to put down.

tu154

18th Oct 2008, 04:00

In the process of reading '9 Lives' by David Courteney. Tells of his career in the Irish Air Corps, and his transition to SAR for the Irish Coastguard, via the North Sea.
Excellent read. Name checks one or two posters from here along the way.

Senior Pilot

28th Oct 2008, 17:25

As Mighty Gem says, "Apache" by Ed Macy is a gripping read, well written by a real pilot who's been there, done that :ok:

But I'm intrigued to read that one of Ed's fellow pilots, FOG/Jim, is now a Police pilot on MD Explorers: is he one of us, and any more Tales to Tell? :cool:

welshguy121

28th Oct 2008, 18:08

once upon a time my instructor told me about a book that was written by a vietnam helicopter pilot who flew 10 s of thousand of sorties and after the war finished he never fley again for many many yrs i cant remember the rest of the story he told me but i m intersted in finding this book

would anyone have any ideas on the name of the book i may be on about please

Bravo73

28th Oct 2008, 18:11

Sounds like 'Chickenhawk'.

welshguy121

28th Oct 2008, 20:43

ordered and on it s way for thursday sounds a great read
cheers

Qualityman

2nd Dec 2008, 16:39

Just finished both "Apache" by Ed Macy and "Apache Dawn" by Damien Lewis.
These books are in my opinion the "Chickenhawk" for our generation (Just got a new copy of chickenhawk from Amazon!).
These books are a must read for anyone interested in helicopters, or in the debacle in Afghanistan. Read them in the order above and the chronology is correct.
What these guys achieve for the conflict, the troops on the ground and for the Corps itself is just incredible.

SASless

2nd Dec 2008, 17:12

Whirlwind,

Am organizing a group to head back to Vietnam for a twenty one day trip departing Los Angeles about 26 June....fly into Hanoi....night train to Dong Ha...fly from Qui Nhon to Saigon.....return to LAX from Saigon. We will be hitting sights from Hanoi clear down to Can Tho. I went for the sixteen day trip year before last and had a great time.

Care to come along?

WhirlwindIII

3rd Dec 2008, 01:49

SASless

My word, thanks for thinking of me! PM?

WIII

Desert Dingo

3rd Dec 2008, 03:51

Re #140
Likewise, I have also just finished both "Apache" by Ed Macy and "Apache Dawn" by Damien Lewis, in that order too. (Amazon had a good deal for the two.)

I thought "Apache" was by far the better book as it was written as a first person account, whereas "Apache Dawn" was written by a journalist from notes or interviews and lost a lot in the process. I found the second book initially very confusing where it referred to the action at Jugroom Fort - the names of the pilots were different and the radio callsigns and procedures were also very different. I realise it probably has something to do with security and confusing the Taliban, but it certainly confused me!

I spent most of my time reading "Apache" in front of my computer and Google Earth. A lot of the places mentioned in the book can be identified, and with a little zooming and tilting you can see exactly what is being described in the book from the pilot's viewpoint. "Apache" is the kind of book you can't put down.

Some locations:
Gereshk 31° 48.587'N 64° 31.238'E
Camp Bastion 31° 51.500'N 64° 13.290'E (nothing shows there - I wonder why?)
Jugroom Fort 31° 4.044'N 64° 10.140'E
Koshtay 30° 57.140'N 64° 9.710'E
Baram Cha 29° 26.211'N 64° 2.054'E
Arnhem 32° 12.988'N 65° 9.240'E

SASless

3rd Dec 2008, 12:12

Whirlwind,

Unable to PM you....hit me up and I will send you the outline for the trip to Vietnam. A former doorgunner/crewchief friend and I are organizing the trip. We're trying to make it an all helicopter crew/family group but will gladly include anyone that wants to go. Plan for a 21 day party if we get the right bunch together.

Aser

9th Feb 2009, 21:40

Just finished "To The Limit: An Air Cav Huey Pilot in Vietnam".
I'll put it right next to chickenhawk, if not first... :D

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512xoaCpkVL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg
Amazon.com: To The Limit: An Air Cav Huey Pilot in Vietnam: Tom A. Johnson: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Limit-Air-Huey-Pilot-Vietnam/dp/0451222180/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234219085&sr=1-1)

Desert Dingo: why don't you write a review in Amazon about Apache? I have it on my wish list.

Regards
Aser

wardy20

10th Feb 2009, 01:07

Just read Nine Lives by David Courtney. Recounting missions and tales of life as a SAR heli pilot in Ireland. Gives great insight into the work involved. 10/10

chopper_doctor

10th Feb 2009, 02:42

Not sure if these have been mentioned yet, but I remember reading North SAR and thinking it was a good account of naval combat sar during the vietnam war. On Yankee Station, also not bad, but from a naval jet jockey point of view.

topendtorque

10th Feb 2009, 19:01

Does anyone know whether 'Tom A Jonhnson' did a stint instructing at Long Beach back in about 1970. Met one at one of the local very popular 'holes the 'rams' a few times.. A top dude.

Three Blades

11th Feb 2009, 08:48

I would like to add my vote for 'Apache' as I have just finished it.
This is more of a story about a couple of missions that happen to be in helicopters rather than the more detailed writing in Chichenhawk.
It is a truly compulsive read; even to the extent that I sat on a railway station platform for 10 minutes to finish my chapter before getting in my car to go home !
It is also an account of a war that has rather been forgotton by the media back home. The fighting in Afganistan is well described and brings back the reality that is infantry attacks as opposed to the rather clinical world of lazer guided bombs that tend to get the slot on the nightly news. Going to war is clearly not just the 'tea and medals' from Blackadder and this book givs some taste of that.

VfrpilotPB/2

11th Feb 2009, 09:51

Goodorning Rotorheads,

Added to my shelves are now the two Chrisse prezzies that I have just finished, both from my son fresh from the small sandpit, " Apache" and
"Sniper One", both of these books are absolutely riviting reads, found myself reading way into the small hours,... but also found myself feeling some of the emotions ( I think because of my son ) one gets when reading of the great pain these men were enduring, in what could only be decribed as constant "Battle Fatigue"

Very good books and very well written!

Peter R-B
Vfr

Brilliant Stuff

26th Feb 2009, 15:51

I also have just finished reading "Apache" by Ed Macy. And I have to agree it is very good in describing what the armed forces are up against.

It gave me as a non military chap a new respect for the soldiers who have to leave Blighty in behalf of them politicians.

Cracking book and difficult to put down.:ok:

JTobias

26th Feb 2009, 16:02

I've read all of the above (I think), but currently reading "Low Level Hell" by Hugh L Mills. Awesome so far and dare I say better than Chickenhawk!

Joel

BusinessMan

26th Feb 2009, 22:26

I agree with you Joel. Likewise I'd put 'Maverick' above CH too, despite expectations of howls of protest from all the ChickenHawk fans :)

EN48

26th Feb 2009, 23:04

Just finished "To The Limit: An Air Cav Huey Pilot in Vietnam".
I'll put it right next to chickenhawk, if not first... :D

Agree. One thing I like about this book is that the author does not try to dumb down the technical aspects of flying helicopters. He uses accurate jargon in the text (makes it authentic to pilots) and explains the terminology in a fairly detailed appendix. Also strong votes for Snake PIlot, Low Level Hell, and Naked in Da Nang (O2 FAC pilot story).

JTobias

27th Feb 2009, 17:19

Businessman , I don't have Maverick so I will hunt that one down on your reccomend

Joel

Darkhorse30

27th Feb 2009, 18:26

Flew in the same unit as Hugh Mills in 1969-70. I flew Cobras and once flew as crew chief with Mills. His replacement was Rod Willis and at least as crazy.

BusinessMan

27th Feb 2009, 19:41

Joel, it's by Dennis Marvicsin & is on Amazon et al, if that makes it easier to find. Not everyone's preference but I personally thought it was one of the best. BM

JTobias

27th Feb 2009, 20:52

BusinessMan

Thanks for that, I'll check it out now.:ok:

Darkhorse

I hope you got a medal, I take my hat off to you guys

Joel

SASless

27th Feb 2009, 21:43

One flight in a Loach cured me....half way through the flight!

Adrenalin takes a bit of time to wear off.....after a bit of excitement one morning I rashly offered to show the Loach and Cobra's where they could find some rather unfriendly folks that had scared me more than a little bit.

After the second orbit in the area I came to my senses.....and realized I had let my big mouth get me into a situation that was not conducive to a long boring life.

My hat is off to the guys who did that stuff for a living.....I was quite content to stay in my Chinook hauling beans, water and bullets.

Listening to the Gunny's in the bar at night as they recounted tales of fighting the bad guys seemed the best way to experience that kind of stuff.

We cannot all be Heroes.....someone has to stand on the kerb and applaud as they march by!

JTobias

28th Feb 2009, 11:40

I've just thought of another book that I think we have all overlooked.

"Budgie the Helicopter"

written by ex HRH Duchess of York, Sarah Ferguson and available at Amazon

Thrilling ;)

RINKER

28th Feb 2009, 14:52

A bit off thread perhaps but speaking of " Budgie the Helicopter " who has seen " Fudgie the Little Attack Helicopter " cartoon strip in I think Viz comic ? .R

ramen noodles

28th Feb 2009, 17:52

SASless is right. I spent a tour circling with guns at 800 feet, watching OH-6 LOH's work the terrain at 2 meter height. I took two flights as an observer gunner in a LOH circling with a CAR-15 in my lap, and many smoke grenades in a box at my feet, waiting to be shot at/down. The combination of adrenalin and nerves made me sick in the first 20 minutes, and when I saw the first brown uniform duck intio the weeds on a pass, I almost wet my pants.

The Cobra was almost boring by comparison. My hat is off the scout pilots, every one.

SASless

28th Feb 2009, 17:56

Ramen,

It proves I am four times as smart as you!:oh:

A half trip cured me of ever wanting to be a Loach Pilot!:uhoh:

Aser

24th May 2009, 21:52

I recently finished 3 books...

Amazing rescues...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512Z430H97L._SL500_AA240_.jpg
During his 30 years in the Air Force and Air National Guard, Fleming made a career of descending from the sky to pluck disaster victims from the jaws of floods, storms, sharks and polar white-outs. His gripping memoir vividly illustrates how tenuous the life of a deus ex machina can be. Fleming recalls the tragic and sometimes gruesome deaths of unlucky colleagues who succumbed to the elements and recounts hair-raising missions that often took place at night, flown through hazardous weather (including the vicious nor’easter Sebastian Junger made famous in The Perfect Storm) in fragile helicopters prone to mechanical breakdown. Avoiding gung-ho special-ops bluster, he probes the human flaws and lapses—incompetent, panicky pilots, abusive officers, penny-pinching bureaucrats who refuse to pay for much-needed equipment—that bedevil even elite outposts of the military. Fleming’s sober, straightforward, well-paced style lucidly conveys the lore of helicopter flight and the practical difficulties of rescue missions while letting the heroics speak for themselves.
Amazon.com: Heart of the Storm: My Adventures as a Helicopter Rescue Pilot and Commander: Colonel Edward L. Fleming: Books (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471264369/ref=ox_ya_oh_product)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51zEvDwokvL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
A rescue pilot with some 300 missions under his belt, David Courtney has seen tragedy and triumph up close. Nine Lives is an account of being a rescue pilot: from learning to fly to the thrills and terrors of dangerous night rescues. Courtney explains how the entire rescue crew works. He also contrasts the dramatic with the mundane, delving into ordinary day-to-day family life -- from the birth of his children to the death of his father -- showing how the mundane can empower each of us to confront the dramatic. Blunt and open about fear, danger, disappointment, elation, and happiness, the book tells the story of his journey through adulthood and the appreciation of the here and now that rescue brings.
Amazon.com: Nine Lives: David Courtney: Books (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1856356027/ref=ox_ya_oh_product)

This one is not rotary but if you are an "aviator" you will love it!
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RSKNSQ6XL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg
V.S. PritchettNew StatesmanMr. Gann is a writer saturated in his subject; he has the skill to make every instant sharp and important and we catch the fever to know that documentary writing does not often invite.

The New YorkerThis book is an episodic log of some of the more memorable of [the author's] nearly ten thousand hours aloft in peace and (as a member of the Air Transport Command) in war. It is also an attempt to define by example his belief in the phenomenon of luck -- that "the pattern of anyone fate is only partly contrived by the individual."

New York Times Book ReviewFew writers have ever drawn their readers so intimately into the shielded sanctum of the cockpit, and it is here that Mr. Gann is truly the artist.

Cornelius Ryanauthor of A Bridge Too Far and The Longest DayFate Is the Hunter is partly autobiographical, partly a chronicle of some of the most memorable and courageous pilots the reader will ever encounter in print; and always this book is about the workings of fate....The book is studded with characters equally as memorable as the dramas they act out.

Saturday ReviewThis fascinating, well-told autobiography is a complete refutation of the comfortable cliché that "man is master of his fate." As far as pilots are concerned, fate (or death) is a hunter who is constantly in pursuit of them....There is nothing depressing about Fate Is the Hunter. There is tension and suspense in it but there is great humor too. Happily, Gann never gets too technical for the layman to understand.

Chicago Sunday TribuneThis purely wonderful autobiographical volume is the best thing on flying and the meaning of flying that we have had since Antoine de Saint-Exupéry took us aloft on his winged prose in the late 1930s and early 1940s....It is a splendid and many-faceted personal memoir that is not only one man's story but the story, in essence, of all men who fly.
Amazon.com: Fate is the Hunter: Ernest K. Gann: Books (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671636030/ref=ox_ya_oh_product)

Best regards
Aser

locomotion

25th Aug 2009, 09:09

Hi, sorry for resurrecting what may be an old thread but i have some questions and further recommendations.

Recently Immediate Response by Mark Hammond ( Immediate Response: Amazon.co.uk: Mark Hammond: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Immediate-Response-Mark-Hammond/dp/0718154746) ) has come out about a Chinook pilot in Afghanistan, also Armed Action by James Newton ( Armed Action: Amazon.co.uk: Lieutenant Commander James Newton DFC: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Armed-Action-Lieutenant-Commander-Newton/dp/0755316037/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251191110&sr=1-1) ) seems to have not been mentioned - it involves a very interesting account of being a pilot on the Lynx Ah7 TOW and his encounters with Iraqi tanks in 2003. Will there be a Lynx Wildcat TOW or armed variant or has the apache totally replaced this role.

Also, there seem to be many books about Huey slick pilots or Cobra pilots but are there any accounts of the armed huey pilots as I would be interested to read them, .

Thanks for the good recommendations I will certainly be buying some.
Locomotion

jonwilly

26th Aug 2009, 01:41

Not a Book but the Series of 4 progs, Helicopter Wars is looking very good.
First had a Huey in Nam 67, two Huey's rescued 100 + Inf in contact with NVA regulars.
Three pilots awarded Air Force Cross.
Senior Pilot Punches his OC.
Very well made and the 'Movies' shot at the time make it worth watching.
The 'Basic' intro to how helis work is one of, if not best simple explanation I have seen.
john

SASless

26th Aug 2009, 02:26

Aser,

To be an aviator.....one must know Gann.

He has several books about flying that are must reads for those who aspire to understand flight.

Amazon.com: Ernest Gann (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Ernest+Gann&x=15&y=18)

Add in Richard Bach to your list of authors as well. It took a while to fully appreciate his work but after a few years and a re-reading of his books I got a lot more out of them.

Richard David Bach | LibraryThing (http://www.librarything.com/author/bachrichard)

"The Cannibal Queen" is also an excellent story of flying an old round engined bi-plane around the United States.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J63GK0NFL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

"Robert's Ridge" by Malcolm McPherson is also a good account of combat in Afghanistan.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51B8MAZPSVL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

"Sole Survivor" by Marcus Luttrell is mind boggling! It takes up where Andy McNabb's "Bravo 21" leaves off in a way. Very similar experiences of a small Recon team compromised and engaged by greatly superior numbers of enemy forces.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41wCUuSAb8L._SL110_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-sm,TopRight,8,-14_OU01_.jpg

Michael Durant's books about his experiences during "Blackhawk Down" are excellent accounts as well.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N15VG1EPL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

thorpey

6th Sep 2009, 20:45

Nearly finished Ed Macys new book, 'Hellfire', superb, can't put it down. It wasn't in the usual bookstores but in a supermarket, nearly missed it. Get yourself a copy pronto.

bigsquirrel

4th Oct 2009, 22:51

An excellent read. A very good account of an extremely lethal machine. I searched on youtube and actually found some vision of some key battles mentioned in the book.

Cheers

Bigsquirrel

Thridle Op Des

5th Oct 2009, 11:09

Very good, well recommended, new one out shortly - 'Hellfire'. Had a chance to meet Ed recently - super guy.

TOD

Brilliant Stuff

5th Oct 2009, 14:02

Apache was a very engrossing (sp) read well we all could not put it down.

spinwing

5th Oct 2009, 21:18

Mmmm ...

Back on post #99 I mentioned a book written by my friend Randy Mains .... "Dear Mom ... I'm Alive ... letters home from Blackwidow 25" (ISBN 1-41204590-8).

I have now been told there is a really good chance it will be made into a movie (assuming Hollywood don't F**K with it too much ?) it should turn out to be a 'hoot' !

:ok:

griffothefog

6th Oct 2009, 17:25

spinwing,

Does that mean Randy might actually be able to retire and stop telling bad jokes ??:E

Hope it all works out for him, a real lovely fella :ok:

spinwing

6th Oct 2009, 21:52

Mmmm ...

griffo ..... We all bloody well hope so ..... :}

hef

2nd Jan 2010, 22:14

If anyone has a few hours spare this is a good read:

View Writer's Works - Writers Harbor (http://www.writersharbor.org/wsg.php?uid=863)

So it's not a book but it's so interesting. This man really did the hard yards to become a R/W pilot. Reminds me of a few characters I met in smoky bars on the islands in the Pacific.

There are many other good stories on that site aswell.

SASless

3rd Jan 2010, 02:40

"Not A Good Day To Die" by Sean Naylor ISBN 0-425-19609-7

"In The Company Of Heroes" by Michael Durant ISBN 0-451-21060-3

Both are very good accounts of helicopter warfare. Naylor's book is actually an accounting of the Operation Anaconda but includes a lot of helicoptrer pilot accounts and operations while telling the big story of the battle.

rpmsurfer

3rd Jan 2010, 05:05

My name if Randolph P. Mains. I wrote a book in 1992 that was published by Avon Books entitled Dear Mom I'm Alive--Letters Home from Blackwidow 25. It sold over 18,000 copies. Unfortunately it is our of print but the second edition can be found and ordered at Trafford.com. If you go to Amazon.com I think they can find copies, too.

I am currently working at Abu Dhabi Aviation. I would estimate that over 100 or so of the pilots here have read the book and have given it good reviews. Several have purchased more than on copy. One pilot, a New Zealander, purchased ten copies to give to family members and friends. I figure, if I can please my fellow helicopter pilots with a book written about helicopters that is an excellent endorsement for the book. It is certainly a vote of confidence I am very proud of.

The book is not a Rambo story and I didn't write it to be one. I wrote it to give those interested in what it was like for one helicopter pilot over there. The book details my one-year tour in Vietnam with the 101st Airborne Division, Charlie Company Blackwidows from October 68-69. I am very proud to say that it is currently being optioned to be made into a movie. Filming is set to begin sometime in 2011 in Hawaii. I asked the production company if I could do some of the flying and they said I wasn't going to get off that easily, that they want me to be the Technical Advisor on the film. Letters from Black Widow 25 is currently in script development by 500 Sheets Productions. If you are interested, check out 500sheetsproductions.com a website dedicated to the movie which is in the early stages of development.

I got the idea for the book when, in 1988, my Mom gave me all the letters I had written to her during my one-year tour over there. We used to have a name for the letters we wrote home calling them "I'm Alive" letters. That is because what was important about them wasn't the content of what we said in them. What was important was that on that date the family knew you were alive. That was their true value.

I was working as a helicopter pilot for the Royal Oman Police at the time so I re-read those letters on my long flight back from Southern California to the Middle East. When I re-read them I realized they didn't say what I was really doing over there because I knew that if I told the family the real story they would have freaked out.

I wrote the 260-page book with each chapter representing one month over there in my twelve-month tour. I have included the letters sent home as they were written at that time of that month, for example, if the letter was written on the 15th of August 1969 I inserted it in the middle of that chapter.

I estimate that probably 85 or 90 percent of the book is the real story I couldn't tell them about so the book reads like two stories in one, the letters home as I wrote them, and the true story I couldn't tell them at the time.

When asked by the production company to give them a sentence to sum up the real meaning and essence of the book (such a sentence is called high concept) I came up with this:
Dear Mom I'm Alive is the story of a politically naive but extremely patriotic young Army helicopter pilot who is trying to make it through his one-year tour in Vietnam alive with his humanity and humor in tact.

Like I said, it is not a Rambo story. I did fly 1042 combat hours over there. I was awarded the DFC and 27 air medals and the bronze star medal. If you read the book you will see that the Army and I were not suited. I loved the flying but on the ground I was what could be termed being "route step" which means walking out of step with the others.

If any of you do have an opportunity to read the book I sincerely hope that you enjoy it. I can only say that others have and, as they are mostly my peers who have read it, all equally experienced as I am, I consider that the best endorcement I could receive.

If you have any comments you may contact me at [email protected]. I'd love to hear from you.
Randolph P. Mains.

Sid447

3rd Jan 2010, 07:36

Hello SASless,

Randy flew with Bond Helicopters when I knew him. That was during the period 1990 to around 2001 when he left for a job in Alaska IIRC.

As for the thread, I have recently read "North SAR" by Gerry Carrol (it's introduced by Tom Clancy). Very good read.

I tried reading a copy of "Apache Dawn" whilst at OAKB recently and couldn't get into it.
The style of writing wasn't appealing for me.

I'm about to have a read of the book written by Randy Mains. If his character is anything to go by, it'll be a good read for sure!

SS.

hueyracer

3rd Jan 2010, 07:50

For all german speaking (or reading, of course) pilots i can suggest:

"Der Spaßpilot", written by Harry Grunewald.
Der Spaßpilot: Ein Fliegerleben als Pilot bei der Bundeswehr: Amazon.de: Harry Grunewald: Bücher (http://www.amazon.de/Spaßpilot-Ein-Fliegerleben-Pilot-Bundeswehr/dp/3837044394/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262508387&sr=8-1)

Harry was a pilot within German Armed Forces and has written this book after his retirement from the army.
He writes down all his flying adventures-from helicopter basic training to his last flight in a helicopter..

Unfortunately it is only available in German....
I will try to contact him and see if he is going to have it translated into english some day...

I am looking for books about commercial helicopter operations in the 1990´s - 2010´s.....or about books from pilots like the "Ass monkeys" (Blackwater Aviation-Presidential Airways in Iraq/Afghanistan)...

Any suggestions?

Focha

4th Jan 2010, 02:03

I finished up the "Apache" from Ed Macy, it was fine, in my humble opinion, could be better in some parts, but it was telling the story as it was, so it was fine. I now started to read "Low Level Hell: a Scout Pilot in the Big Red One" by Hugh Mills, the three chapters I read until now seem interesting. I still have here "Snake Pilot: Flying the Cobra Attack Helicopter in Vietnam" by Randy Zahn, but by the way it looks it goes along with the lines of Low Level Hell.

tigerfish

4th Jan 2010, 18:19

One very good read is "Hammerheads" by Dale Brown. a great novel about drugs counter insurgency in the US. It features the use of the V22 Osprey very much and goes into some detail about the aircraft. The funny thing is that the book was first published in 1990 and may well be out of print now.

Hammerheads was one of Dale Browns early novels and was very good. He seemed to use plots which appeared in print several years before something similar happened in reality. In the mid 1990's he wrote a book called "Storming Heaven" which as far as I can recall was about hi-jacking Airliners and crashing them into American cities!

His later novels were not so good and tended to be little more than Sci - Fi.
He was written up as an Ex USAF air force captain on B 52's and F111's.

Tigerfish

wokkamate

14th Jan 2010, 15:30

For all the 'Hookers' out there in the USA and anyone else interested in the CH47, there is a great book out in hardback right now called 'Immediate Response' by Major Mark Hammond DFC RM, a Royal Marine pilot on exchange with the RAF Chinook force. He previously flew attack helos including a tour on Whiskey Cobras for the US Marines.

The book is not really about Hammond, more about the RAF Chinook force and the work the cabs and crews are doing in Afghansitan, especially in the medical immediate response role. It is a very gritty read with plenty of realism, I know as I have have done 6 tours out there too! :}

Worth buying now, or waiting until March when it comes out in paperback.

You can get it from Amazon.com: Immediate Response (9780718154745): Mark Hammond: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Immediate-Response-Mark-Hammond/dp/0718154746/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263486280&sr=8-1) in the US

and Immediate Response: Amazon.co.uk: Mark Hammond: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Immediate-Response-Mark-Hammond/dp/0718154746/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263486350&sr=8-1) in the UK.

The paperback pre-order in UK is:

Immediate Response: Amazon.co.uk: Mark Hammond: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Immediate-Response-Mark-Hammond/dp/0141039043/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263486403&sr=8-2)

Sorry to shamelessly plug it, but he is a mate and the work being done by the Chinook force in Afghanistan is amazing - along with all the amazing work being done by everyone else in that country! :ok: