PDA

View Full Version : Corbyn and #Traingate


Phalconphixer
23rd Aug 2016, 20:07
Hypothetical Question...
Train from London to Edinburgh calling at Peterborugh, York and Newcasle, I join the train at Peterborough to go to Newcastle and I have reserved a seat for my journey... Question is the reserved seat 'out of bounds' for the entire London to Ediburgh trip or just the portion on which I have a reservation...?

Could a jobsworth guard insist that a passenger taking advantage of my reserved seat during stages of the journey not covered by my seat reservation insist that this passenger vacate the seat... even if he joins the train aat Newcastle when I leave the train.

ORAC
23rd Aug 2016, 20:15
Since it is about Corbyn - there were unbooked seats he and his staff ignored whilst they made their PR movie - and then occupied for the remainder of the journey. Video posted on line by the rail company. A particularly inept attempt to embarrass their rail company on their own turf.

Corbyn's Train Squat Doesn't Stand Up - Guido Fawkes Guido Fawkes (http://order-order.com/2016/08/23/corbyns-train-squat-doesnt-stand/)

p.s. As to the original question, it's only reserved for the booked portion.

sitigeltfel
23rd Aug 2016, 20:31
Corbyn & Wife
Spads & hangers on
Special Branch security officers
Press followers

All that entourage, and he thought they could just turn up and grab all the seats they wanted, without booking?

This is the man millions actually believe is fit to run the country! :ugh:

Never mind comrade, you can always dream about ZiL lanes.

Effluent Man
23rd Aug 2016, 20:42
Most of his followers don't actually believe that he will be elected, they are more interested in non parliamentary action, rioting etc.

Fareastdriver
23rd Aug 2016, 20:44
I join the train at Peterborough to go to Newcastle and I have reserved a seat for my journey

The seat is free for anybody to use outside it's reserved journey. You can sit on it and if the reserver does not join the train then you can continue using it. Quite a lot of people buy an open ticket, reserve a seat and then decide to travel on another day and don't bother to cancel their reservation.

Tankertrashnav
23rd Aug 2016, 21:00
Had an embarrassing moment on a train from Nottingham to Birmingham recently. Checked my reserved seat number - Coach D, number 25 (or whatever) and found it was occupied by someone else.

"Excuse me, I think you are in my seat, this is D25 isn't it?"

"Yes but you want the other coach D, these seats are unreserved".

"There are two coach Ds on the train?"

"Yes, confusing isnt it!"

And he was right, the next coach along was also coach D, where I found my reserved seat.

Bonkers system :*

Ibanez001
23rd Aug 2016, 21:18
Indeed bonkers...

4mastacker
23rd Aug 2016, 21:33
..and Corbyn thinks he had a problem getting a seat? Labour's future railway plan revealed.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/14/a3/7c/14a37c77d795d040bdb1f6aed1765cb9.jpg

llondel
23rd Aug 2016, 22:33
In theory your seat is only reserved for the portion of the journey for which you reserved it. It should be free for use by others outside that range. However, you might find that the person who occupies your seat from London to Peterborough might decide to try to hold on to it.

RedhillPhil
23rd Aug 2016, 23:15
The seat is only reserved between Petersbrother and Newcastle. London - Peterborough and Newcastle - Edinburgh it is free for anyone.

lomapaseo
23rd Aug 2016, 23:33
How about if I reserve a seat and after being seated decide I want to move to another seat in the car which is unreserved.

Can I take my seat pull ticket with me (thereby releasing my original seat) and camp out in an unreserved seat?

Krystal n chips
24th Aug 2016, 05:45
Loma...

" How about if I reserve a seat and after being seated decide I want to move to another seat in the car which is unreserved"

No problem at all. You can sit where you wish irrespective of whether you have a reserved seat. The TOC's all insist that, when you book in advance, you have to make a reservation. Consequently, you find they have one carriage dedicated to reserved seats, often crammed solid, whilst other carriages are...comparatively empty.

TTN....now that's an unfortunate experience. I travel that line frequently, and I am not disputing your experience, either from Birmingham or Tamworth to Derby / Nottingham and generally the train is either two / three carriages.

As for the Corbyn vs Bearded Rail encounter, on the surface, it does appear to be a less than astute move on his part......however......it's also worth bearing in mind that, since Bearded Rail took over the ECML, previously run under public ownership please note, and making a profit which was returned to the Gov't, the result has been a significant increase in fares and a deterioration in service along with a staff dispute.

Allegedly, Bearded Rail's bid for the franchise raised eyebrows at the time and the detractors have subsequently been proven correct.

Despite the slick marketing campaigns, and the happy smiling face, Virgin's reputation for profiteering and cramming people into cattle class remains intact......hence you can surmise this rather negative piece of publicity wasn't what they wished the public to be aware of..and thus the rebuttal.

sitigeltfel
24th Aug 2016, 07:06
Lets face it, Corbyn lied, and has once again been exposed for what he is, a shifty opportunist. His aides are running around like headless chickens, trying to limit the damage he has heaped on himself (not that he has anything left, undamaged). They are whining that Virgin released the video showing he is a liar, claiming it is a data breach!
He has a beef against private enterprise and will use any underhand tactic in an attempt to discredit it. Well, he got caught big time and is even more of a fool for continuing to claim he is the victim.
Virgin did themselves no favours by offering discounts to Labour delegates when those same people receive monetary and political support from rail unions who are intent on destroying the rail companies. They should have charged a premium to compensate for the losses those dinosaurs cause.

P.S. Feel free to remove the "f" in "shifty".

UniFoxOs
24th Aug 2016, 07:18
P.S. Feel free to remove the "f" in "shifty".

I read it as a "t" the first time.

Effluent Man
24th Aug 2016, 07:40
Everyone involved with the Corbyn campaign is an oddball. His campaign manager was just on the BBC. He came out with things like "Jeremy was ...like" Maybe they should have chosen a teenage girl for the job,

treadigraph
24th Aug 2016, 08:01
..and Corbyn thinks he had a problem getting a seat? Labour's future railway plan revealed.


Those are the latest Labour Party members...

surely not
24th Aug 2016, 08:14
What short memories people have.

British Rail run by the Government provided the public with old and dirty rolling stock hauled by inefficient locomotives with stations manned mainly by truculent and unhelpful staff.

The timetables were shrinking, lines were being closed, and the government didn't want to invest any money in improving matters. If there were seats for everyone as claimed it was because no one wanted to use the railways other than on the commuter routes into London. On commuter routes from Sussex the peak time trains were crammed full and many people had to stand.

The ride comfort was appalling and more akin to being at sea in a squally shower. Air conditioning was non existent, and the inside of the train was noisy.

The number of services now available is huge in comparison and numbers of people using the railways in UK has doubled since privatisation to 1.7 billion per annum. Add in the youthful age of most rolling stock which is mainly fully air conditioned with an exceptional ride quality and incredibly quiet, plus the more efficient less polluting power units and the passengers have benefitted greatly from the privatisation of the railways.

What is hampering the British system is the short sighted penny pinching of previous generations who built tunnels of minimum acceptable dimensions. This means that on the main routes into London (and probably other major cities as well) peak time capacity cannot be enhanced by putting on double decker coaches.

There isn't even a 1% chance that Govt ownership would improve things. More cloud cuckoo land nonsense from Corbyn

Planemike
24th Aug 2016, 08:20
surely not............


You are completely incorrect, the railways should be nationalised. A bunch a different companies makes not sense what ever (unless, of course, you happen to be a politician). An integrated network is what works best.....

vctenderness
24th Aug 2016, 08:23
This just shows what a petty little student agitator Corbyn is. He is not a mature politician he thinks stupid stunts like this are real politics and thinks the people will admire him.

God help us if this total prat ever got his hands on the levers of power.

surely not
24th Aug 2016, 09:01
Planemike I don't follow your logic at all. The timetables are integrated now and timings controlled, otherwise there would be multiple crashes? Even in the Nationalised railways there were separate operating regions who had their own timetables which is little different in essence to how it is now with different companies given franchise for routes.

What makes sense is that the public now has modern trains to travel on, more services, new stations opened, even a couple of lines opened with more to come, PLUS the operating companies have clear targets to meet or they will lose their franchise when it comes to renewal. The Public couldn't replace British Rail when it was nationalised and utterly hopeless with regard to providing a service.

Trossie
24th Aug 2016, 09:19
Planemike, Go and see how it works elsewhere. We had a very pleasant holiday in Switzerland once where we travelled entirely on public transport while we were there, with trains, cable-ways and busses all connecting with perfectly matched timetables and covered by one 'rover-style' ticket. They were all privately owned and run with no nationalisation. What the travelling public wanted and needed was clearly the over-riding principle (simply because that's what brings in the business). Nationalise it and the fickle wants of politicians and empire-building wants of the 'civil service' become the over-riding principles, with the travelling public being less important. Maybe Corbyn should get out a bit more and see some of the real world elsewhere... Silly me, of course the real world is clear for him to see, but he doesn't want to see that world, he just wants to get stuck in his distorted little view of it! I hope he remains Labour leader for the good of the country: that would make Labour entirely un-electable which would be good for the country.

Planemike
24th Aug 2016, 09:20
surely not & Trossie.............

Would much prefer to have it nationalised. Franchises just seem a wasteful and expensive way to run a railway, OK if you are making a profit out of it, of course. Think it would be more correct to say SOME of the public benefit from travelling on modern trains. Not sure where you are in the country but I still travel on some 40 year old rolling stock. It is OK, just looks rather dated......


Never been to Switzerland but understand it works well. The important thing is, it is an integrated system. Nationalisation would enable that to be achieved here in Britain.

oldchina
24th Aug 2016, 09:35
The railways would be just the first step.
What Bro Corbyn really pines for is glorious British Leyland.
He'd be the first to place an order for the New Morris Marina or Austin Allegro.
Or the New New Mini.
Roll over BMW.

VP959
24th Aug 2016, 09:42
This just shows what a petty little student agitator Corbyn is. He is not a mature politician he thinks stupid stunts like this are real politics and thinks the people will admire him.

God help us if this total prat ever got his hands on the levers of power.
I suspect that this very stupid stunt was the idea of a young, brain-dead, staffer, who thought he/she could see an opportunity for Jeremy Corbyn to make a (misguided) political point.

I doubt the decision for this publicity piece was Corbyn's initially, it was an idiot who was so thick that he/she did not understand that practically all trains and buses now have CCTV, and have had for years, so the stunt was bound to get found out as a lie.

In many ways this typifies what I see as the dangerous nature of Corbyn's leadership. He's mostly harmless, has absolutely no leadership ability and hasn't a hope of becoming PM, but he is allowing a large group of idealistic activists to join together behind him, and that in itself won't be good for our democracy.

In the short terms it will kill any chance Labour has of winning an election, and that then leaves a government that for years will not have a good opposition to keep more extreme policies in check. We had a taste of this when power went to Thatcher's head and she saw herself as royalty, and a fair bit of that was that her government lacked an effective opposition (and there are certain similarities between Michael Foot and Jeremy Corbyn - you might have thought that Labour had learned that particular lesson in 1983).

Planemike
24th Aug 2016, 09:45
I have no idea what other ideas Jeremy Corbyn has. I am not a supporter of his.

I have NEVER been in favour of a privatised railway system for the UK. Today politicians still have a large amount of control over the railways. Who, only last week, set the amount by which fares may rise? The franchises are just a way of giving profits to large corporations..........

sitigeltfel
24th Aug 2016, 09:46
A third rate politician, looking for first class service, on a second class ticket.

Trossie
24th Aug 2016, 10:23
Planemike, The ultimate defining factor of any private system (as works so well in Switzerland) is the customer; if the customers (travellers) don't like it they find another way of travelling and the business declines. (Possibly the fact that rail passenger numbers have gone up shows general satisfaction with the service; I most certainly find rail travel now more satisfying than several decades ago.) The defining factor in a nationalised system is the politician/'civil service mandarin' with the traveller being far less important. Last week did any politician 'set' fare rises or 'limit' fare rises? In a fully nationalised system they would be dictating the fare rises regardless of the travellers and if rises were held down as a political bribe, this would be passed on to the public anyway in the form of subsidies that come out of the taxes that the public pay.

In Switzerland those private companies are clearly only involved in their enterprises in order to make a profit. But the system works very well, so profit is not the problem.

But then no leftie would ever understand that (they just sit on the floor and make crappy videos!).

Planemike
24th Aug 2016, 10:36
Trossie.......... Guess we will have to agree to disagree !!! I am neither a "leftie or a rightie", tend to a be in the "plague on all their houses" camp!! Have always believed the railways would be better if they were run as an integrated system without franchises which just seem to be a way of giving money to large corporations......

UniFoxOs
24th Aug 2016, 10:50
seem to be a way of giving money to large corporations

Yes, West Coast managed to make a huge profit of 6.8M in 2014, on a turnover of close to 1Bn. 0.7% may be regarded as a huge profit by some, but I wouldn't invest in it.

Wingswinger
24th Aug 2016, 10:51
Would someone remind me which 19thC government invented steam locomotion, developed it and started using it on steel rails as the motive power to transport people and goods? Railways were born private. Nationalisation was the aberration, the mistake. I think the only thing done wrong when it was de-nationalised was to create separate companies to look after the track and run the trains. GWR, LMS, LNER and SR should have been re-born. Competition for train travel is not other train travel; it is road and air.

Planemike
24th Aug 2016, 10:58
Wingswinger............ That would not be practical or desirable... Nationalisation was a sensible move that gave us an integrated railways. It was broken up so some politicians could enjoy some vanity... In just the same way they are foisting HS2 on us.

sitigeltfel
24th Aug 2016, 11:10
A nationalised railway run by Corbyn? He would be dangerous in charge of a model train set.

If you think things are bad now,...............

Groundloop
24th Aug 2016, 11:35
Nationalisation was a sensible move that gave us an integrated railways.

The railways were nationalised because they had been run into the ground during the Second World War (doing a magnificent job BTW!) and the Big Four private companies could not afford to update them.

which just seem to be a way of giving money to large corporations......

Last year the Train Operating Companies paid a total of 800 million more to the Governement in premiums than they received in subsidies! And these premium payments will be even higher in any new franschise award.

sitigeltfel
24th Aug 2016, 11:44
Good job he wasn't going any further North than Newcastle. It is near impossible for Labour to get any seats in Scotland! ;)

sitigeltfel
24th Aug 2016, 12:44
Corbyn set off for Newcastle
He thought the trip would be no hassle
He remembered the refrain
"Let the train take the strain"
Then discovered he'd have to sit on his asshole

Tankertrashnav
24th Aug 2016, 16:37
Apparently it now appears that Corbyn ignored single seats because he was looking for two adjacent seats so he could sit beside his wife. On another rail trip recently I missed my connection at Birmingham (thanks, FlyBe!) and had to take a crowded later train where I obviously didn't have reservations. Found a seat for Mrs TTN by the simple expedient of asking a woman who had plonked her bag on the seat to please move it (she did, without demur) and found myself one further down the carriage.

A year or two back the conductor on our Great Western train made an announcement to the effect that he would shortly be moving through the train and selling full fare tickets to those passengers who had placed their luggage on seats. Amazing how many seats that suddenly freed up!

Watching his reaction to a "traingate" question at some meeting on the one o'clock news today it is amazing how thin-skinned the man is. He has spent a lifetime protesting and dishing out criticism, but now he is on the receiving end he obviously doesn't like it one little bit.

G-CPTN
24th Aug 2016, 16:49
I would be interested to learn the timing of Corbyn's video being published, as he admits that he was offered (and declined) a free upgrade to 1st Class and was then lead to the empty seats that he had passed 40 minutes earlier.

Was the action of the train manager as a result of Corbyn's tweet, or did Jeremy persist in tweeting his plight after he had been reseated?

Timing is everything.

vctenderness
24th Aug 2016, 16:50
A man used to speaking to a room full of people that agree with him.

Now he has to face those that don't.

Krystal n chips
24th Aug 2016, 17:07
What short memories people have.



Not really, in fact I recall British Rail very well.



British Rail run by the Government provided the public with old and dirty rolling stock hauled by inefficient locomotives with stations manned mainly by truculent and unhelpful staff.

No they didn't. The rolling stock and locomotives were representative of the technology over the years of BR and, guess what, technology develops.


The timetables were shrinking, lines were being closed, and the government didn't want to invest any money in improving matters. If there were seats for everyone as claimed it was because no one wanted to use the railways other than on the commuter routes into London. On commuter routes from Sussex the peak time trains were crammed full and many people had to stand.


A bit of bad news for you surely, possibly even a bit of a revelation....sorry about this old boy, but, the rail network extends beyond leafy Sussex and across the whole of the UK....so you can't really make any form of subjective commentary really.

The ride comfort was appalling and more akin to being at sea in a squally shower. Air conditioning was non existent, and the inside of the train was noisy" .


As someone who travelled extensively on BR, seated and standing, the ride comfort was fine. That, an you could open the windows for, erm, fresh air.


" The number of services now available is huge in comparison and numbers of people using the railways in UK has doubled since privatisation to 1.7 billion per annum. Add in the youthful age of most rolling stock which is mainly fully air conditioned with an exceptional ride quality and incredibly quiet, plus the more efficient less polluting power units and the passengers have benefitted greatly from the privatisation of the railways" .

Well done ! written with the true zeal of a privatisation advocate ! ....apart from.... air conditioning which is suffocating at times, overcrowded trains, rip off and blatant profiteering with fares....you were saying about passenger benefits ?


" [I]What is hampering the British system is the short sighted penny pinching of previous generations who built tunnels of minimum acceptable dimensions. This means that on the main routes into London (and probably other major cities as well) peak time capacity cannot be enhanced by putting on double decker coaches[" /I].

Oh, absolutely ! .....it was, after all terribly remiss of the Victorians not to have the foresight to build larger tunnels...they did build a few decent bridges and viaducts however......across other parts of the UK.

As for the privatisation argument, lets remember the railways came into being with all the same money grabbing and political machinations that remain today. That, and they were originally built with freight, not the SLF version, in mind until it dawned there was a captive market waiting to be exploited.....public spirited altruism didn't really feature much therefore.

As you may have guessed, I am a supporter of re- nationalisation...which would be nice, but presently unlikely to happen.

G-CPTN
24th Aug 2016, 17:38
The criticism that I would level at British Railways days would be the filth of the moquette-covered seats.
I don't believe that steam cleaners had been invented.

VP959
24th Aug 2016, 18:16
Re-inventing the facts that led to the ultimately disastrous nationalisation of many industries doesn't change them, even if the idealists wish it did.

We nationalised industries for reasons that were very good at the time, such as we needed them for a war or because a war had led to them becoming non-viable commercially.

The facts are very clear about the railways post-privatisation (and I was a supporter of keeping the railways nationalised at that time). The bullshit about subsidies is just that - even a cursory glance at the subsidy versus franchise income shows that we do not, overall, subsidise the railway system, it generates an income for the taxpayer.

There are arguments for and against the level of control government should have; my personal view now is that government control should be restricted to ensuring high levels of safety, interoperability between train operators in terms of customers buying through tickets and ensuring that minimum levels of service are provided to communities that need rail links to survive.

My recollections of British Rail during the 60's and 70's was that it was an unmitigated disaster, with rude staff that didn't give a shit about "customers", service that was bloody awful and near-constant strike action because the railways were controlled by the unions, rather than by any form of management (I don't actually think BR ever had "proper" managers). Any innovations in rolling stock were generally diabolical and unreliable, as there was no commercial incentive to make anything work, or provide any reasonable level of service.

I was a very regular commuter to London and post-privatisation the improvement was very marked. This was on what is generally regarded as the worst privatised network "Notwork South East". Sure there was overcrowding, but I got to and from work on time far more often than I ever did when BR were having a joke by trying to run a railway.

Since then things have massively improved on many lines. A while ago I had to arrange for my elderly mother (an occasional wheel chair user) to travel from the far South West to Bristol, and back, so I could pick her up to attend her brother's funeral. The service at both stations, and on the train, for both journeys was exemplary, with the train staff going so far as to phone me (and my brother at the far end on the return journey) 15 minutes before the train arrived to make sure we knew it was on schedule. Not only that but they provided wheelchairs and ramps at both ends and staff who were extremely polite and helpful to assist her on and off the train. Their service put the airlines I've flown with to shame, it was that good.

I cannot imagine how BR would have coped - based on my past experience of them I doubt that this journey would have been possible. IIRC, wheelchair users had to sit in the baggage car back when BR ran things......................

Jeremy Corbyn, or his team, have lied. He allowed his team to fabricate a story so he could make a political statement. I'm no fan of Richard Branson, but I think he was spot on to show the evidence that proves that Corbyn (or his team) fabricated this story for political purposes (and my view is that it has done far more harm than good to Jeremy Corbyn - it's just proved that he has no principles and will lie like all the others when he wants to make a point).

Peter-RB
24th Aug 2016, 18:37
Well done Corbo.!... you have just shown us all what your leadership would sink to in order to prove some sort of Commie Plot, we all now understand you would be far worse than Blair and Brewn.

LOOSER.......:D

oldchina
24th Aug 2016, 18:55
"he has no principles and will lie like all the others when he wants to make a point"

It's like bothering whether Lenin or Hitler or Stalin or Mao were lying. Of course they were. It's in the job description.
Let's just hope CoreBin never gets the job.

G-CPTN
24th Aug 2016, 19:00
And 'someone' is pursuing Beardie Rail for allegedly breaching data protection (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/24/virgin-trains-faces-data-protection-inquiry-over-corbyn-cctv-footage) rules.

Dan Gerous
24th Aug 2016, 19:28
Well I can assure Mr Corbin that from 1976-1984, I used the nationalised train service a lot before I got a car, and there was plenty of standing room only back then.

simon brown
24th Aug 2016, 22:11
The man has all the gravitas of a second rate parish councillor and is merely a protestor with many sociailist followers of his ilk, with no parliamentary mandate

His publicity stunt and subsequent deciet makes him unfit for public office

I wish he would prune that bloody rose bush that he has to duck under every time he is doorstepped.on TV...says something about the man....there is a problem but i will duck the issue

KelvinD
24th Aug 2016, 23:32
K&C: Well said! My grandfather and my father worked all their lives for BR and its forerunners.
I remember well my father telling me about the BR Chairman being made to wait at Number 10 every Thursday afternoon, waiting for Ted Heath to sign a cheque so that BR would have the funds to pay wages the following day. He was, allegedly, humiliated by Heath on a weekly basis. Heath and his lot didn't give a toss about the railways and made sure it was run on a shoe string.
VP959: As the government provided "net support to the rail industry in 2014-2015 of 4.8 Billion". Numbers provided by Office of Rail and Road (HM Government). This was effectively a sneaky subsidy as this money obviated the need for the rail companies to pay for rental/use of Network Rail. So, after the government covered all their costs for infrastructure, the railway companies returned 1.3p for every passenger kmtravelled. HM Government also shows a subsidy to Virgin East Coast of 1.1p per passenger mile in 2014-2015. (One department uses km, while another uses miles?) Converting to passenger km, that would be 1.76p per passenger km. Virgin East Coast boast they carried 20.6 million passengers in the same time period. Multiply that by the number of miles/kms travelled and by the 1.76p per km....
So, tax payers money being shovelled into Branson's bank and he repays the taxpayers' generosity by maintaining his banking etc "offshore". Of course, Stagecoach are also getting a large share of that money. No idea where they bank theirs.
Incidentally, Virgin East Coast came into operation when they took over from East Coast in March 2015. Now here is a quote from the Virgin East Coast web site that has me scratching my head; "Virgin East Coast runs 155 services per weekday, an increase from the 100 operated when it started in 1996". So they either don't know when they came into existence or they tell porkies!

Krystal n chips
25th Aug 2016, 05:42
VP....

" I cannot imagine how BR would have coped - based on my past experience of them I doubt that this journey would have been possible. IIRC, wheelchair users had to sit in the baggage car back when BR ran things

I wouldn't start singing the praises of the current TOC's too loudly when it comes to disabled passengers.....a very short trawl on Google will reveal all is far from well for such travellers. It's easy to denigrate BR from times past, but, using disability as one comparative example as you have, back in the 80's, a Major International Airport ....cough !....used to load and off load disabled pax using.......a catering wagon. And you talk about BR ?

Thankfully, there have been some improvements in society as to how disabled people are treated, albeit still abysmally in comparison to able bodied people.


Siti !......as you know, I am a Guardian reader and thus would hate to be accused of stifling latent creative talent....such as you aspirations for the post of Poet Laureate for example.

Corbyn set off for Newcastle
He thought the trip would be no hassle
He remembered the refrain
"Let the train take the strain"
Then discovered he'd have to sit on his asshole

Now, I don't wish to sound harsh here, but, it does appear your embryonic talents and offering above was more, shall we say, "Gordon's" or "Le Vin Rouge" inspired rather than cerebrally crafted.....possibly therefore basket weaving or water colour painting may offer your creativity alternative outlets ?....:hmm:

If, however, your heart is set on railway poetry, there was some bloke called Betjeman, who had a passing interest in railways, whom you may wish to refer to for guidance....;)....and some bloke called Auden had a bit to say as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmciuKsBOi0

KelvinD
25th Aug 2016, 06:40
That was interesting to read about loading and unloading disabled pax with a catering wagon. When I worked at various airports in Saudi Arabia, I used to watch King Khalid being loaded and unloaded into/from B737s at Taif in the same manner. I actually felt sorry for the old boy; a King being wheeled in from a catering vehicle into the back door of the aircraft!

gruntie
25th Aug 2016, 06:46
If Corbyn was so intent on sitting next to his wife, why didn't his wife end up sitting next to him on the floor? I think we should be told.

ShyTorque
25th Aug 2016, 06:58
The thought of politicians trying to use the data protection act as a shield from the truth is what rings the loudest alarm bell with me.

sitigeltfel
25th Aug 2016, 07:02
The whole stunt was a pathetic attempt to discredit one of Corbyns pet bogeymen, the privatised railways, and it has blown up spectacularly in his face.
Couldn't have ended better.

Adam Nams
25th Aug 2016, 07:18
I am a Guardian reader and thus would hate to be accused of stifling latent creative talent
Have we reached peak beard? (https://www.buzzfeed.com/tabathaleggett/the-12-most-guardian-headlines-ever?utm_term=.ii30q2MgD#.ji471OBvM)

Trossie
25th Aug 2016, 07:30
This is a new low for me, says ?gate? suffix (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/this-is-a-new-low-for-me-says-gate-suffix-20160824112876)

funfly
25th Aug 2016, 13:27
The ideals behind left thinking right from Marx to Corbyn sound valid but there are two factors that go against them.
Firstly they have all been conceived by theorists who themsleves have never had to work for a living let alone mix with 'normal' working people.
Secondly one must remember that in practice society (the proletariat) contains a number who are lazy, ill, criminal or for other reasons see no reason to contribute to their society. It also contains people with ambitions to get into positions of control and power.
Thus the downfall of the Marxist ideal and the potential downfall of the Corbyn ideal.
I personally dislike the idea of capitalism but have to admit that it is the only system that caters for the diverse attitudes of people in society.

funfly
25th Aug 2016, 13:34
Interesting observation by Froid many years ago that the staff of the Catholic church were in a secure wealthy organisation where their personal contribution had no bearing on the church itself therefore the clergy on the whole were lazy.
He contrasted this with the protestant church where, he said, the individual clergy had a massive responsibility for their individual churches and therefore tended to be hard working.
PS sorry can't remember how to spell Fr--d.
FF

engineer(retard)
25th Aug 2016, 13:36
I wouldn't start singing the praises of the current TOC's too loudly when it comes to disabled passengers.....a very short trawl on Google will reveal all is far from well for such travellers. It's easy to denigrate BR from times past, but, using disability as one comparative example as you have, back in the 80's, a Major International Airport ....cough !....used to load and off load disabled pax using.......a catering wagon. And you talk about BR ?

It seems somewhat desperate to go Googling to find a service that is almost as bad as British Rail, although it shows how difficult a problem it is. However, there is a considerable difference between getting a disabled person raised 18 inches off the ground on to a railway carriage, as compared to at least 40ft into the air for an aircraft. I anticipate seeing beardy sitting on the wing of a BA aircraft in the near future in his pursuit of nationalisation top trumps.

funfly
25th Aug 2016, 13:37
Spent some time in Vietnam last year and it thrives because, although oficially a Communist country every individual works as if they are a capatalist.
So a whole capatylist society working well under a Communist umbrella - how cool is that?

419
25th Aug 2016, 15:06
And 'someone' is pursuing Beardie Rail for allegedly breaching data protection rules.

I would hope that the ICO dismiss this claim.
After all, what personal data or information did Virgin trains release that hadn't already been made public by JC or his PR team?
He had already admitted that he was on the train in question and allowed photographs of him to be published and all that Virgin have done is to release a short CCTV clip which also shows him on the train.

Ancient Observer
25th Aug 2016, 15:38
1. Back in the late 70s/early 80s I had a London-based job that required lots of long rail journeys. About 2 a week, sometimes 3. Then, in the early 2000s I had another job that required lots of train journeys.
Not much material difference, other than more modern comfort and the price now being mind-blowing.
2. I shared a train with lots of folk, plus Len Murray, going to a TUC Conference. The buffet attendant called Murray his "boss". Bizarre. It showed their attitude.
3. Corbyn's sidekicks have really lost it if they think they can take on Saint Dopehead. Saint Dopehead is the UK's favourite businessman. And Corbyn is the UK's least favourite politician. I wonder who will win???

4. The worst thing about Privatisation was the billions of UK money that went out of the UK to the foreign owners of the railstock - the trains. A very stupid move by stupid civil servants.

Ancient Observer
25th Aug 2016, 15:43
I don't normally read the Fascistgraph, but this caught my eye .....
When a man who thinks he is a bearded saint attacks a man who the public think actually is a bearded saint there is only one outcome - further defeat for Corbyn
John McTernan

HeartyMeatballs
25th Aug 2016, 15:47
Beardy's product was being attacked so publically. Fair enough if the complaint was genuine. However it was not and he had evidence to provide it. He shared that evidence and people can draw from that whatever conclusion that they see fit.

Krystal n chips
25th Aug 2016, 17:09
Ah, yes, Bearded Rails product being attacked...the Bearded one has always been a very capable publicist when it comes to his products, alas, his products, in this case the ECML don't always meet the syrupy image of perfection they purport to show.

The ECML is hardly proving a success for him and any form of adverse publicity is hardly going to be well received.

Corbyn has a valid point therefore, but, how that point was publicised was where, unfortunately, the issues began.

Meanwhile, here's a few other encounters involving politicians....

Political trainwrecks: from Corbyn v Virgin to Cameron?s pasty sham | Politics | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2016/aug/24/political-trainwrecks-jeremy-corbyn-virgin-david-cameron-pasty)

Tankertrashnav
25th Aug 2016, 22:04
K & C, in the interest of balancing your Guardian article on (Conservative) political trainwrecks I thought I'd post the infamous Ed Milliband bacon sandwich photo. Starting a Google search for the photo I had only to type in "Ed Milliband" to find that the first result was "Ed Milliband bacon sandwich".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband_bacon_sandwich_photograph

Such is the fickle nature of political life that a politician who had such high hopes for a successful career, maybe even the highest office, is now mainly associated with an unfortunate confrontation with a bacon butty. The Corbyn camp is doing its best, but I have an idea that an ill-advised attempt to make a political point will be his defining image for posterity.

Trossie
26th Aug 2016, 08:00
Labour MPs resort to dirty tricks to keep Corbyn out of his seat (http://newsthump.com/2016/08/25/labour-mps-resort-to-dirty-tricks-to-keep-corbyn-out-of-his-seat/)

That grumpy old git (has anyone seen him really smile?) continues to provide perfect comedy material. Tankertrashnav is quite correct (right!), the image a scruffy, grumpy old git sitting on the floor trying to complain about something that can be shown not to be true is something that not going to go away. Pasties and bacon-butties are going to be nothing on this one! Watch the jokes about seats follow him around incessantly from now on! All the socialist posters here must cringe when they see their darling left being 'led' by such a clown.

Keep at it Corbyn, you doing more singlehandedly to demolish the left's electoral chances than anyone on the right could dream of doing!

ORAC
26th Aug 2016, 08:56
8keZbZL2ero

oldchina
26th Aug 2016, 14:36
Sir Richard Branson injured on Caribbean island

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37198354

CCTV doesn't show J Corbyn fleeing the scene

radeng
26th Aug 2016, 14:43
Post WW2, there was no option but to nationalise. That was the only way to avoid paying the railways that which they were owed and that would use money that the Government - and country - didn't have. The way it was done ensured that the railways couldn't make a profit, although they made an operating profit up to 1954. Anytime government has got involved with running the railways, it's not been much of success. The oil fuel fiasco of 1948/9, the decision 'to provide a showcase for British industry' by taking a few of every class of diesel locomotive from every manufacturer which proved extremely expensive in the end.......it goes on.

Back in 70s and 80s, with the exception of the Fenchurch Street line which was a disaster and was operated by incompetent staff who lied most of the time when there was a problem, I found BR and especially the Southern Region very good - certainly in comparison to the Fenchurch Street line. Going from Southampton to Woking for Heathrow one time and the train was cancelled because of a lineside fire. The next one wasn't down to stop at Woking: a polite request to the station Foreman, a telephone call to control and a Special Stop Order was issued. Besides myself, some 30 other people actually got to Woking in time for the 'bus to Heathrow and their flights...

One night at Dartford, a derailment at Slade Green depot had led to major cancellations. The station Foreman gave me a cup of tea in his office and persuaded control to bring the night cover men up from Ramsgate with a special. By Dartford it had grown to 12 coaches, had stopped at all stations and was full - and was routed down the North Kent line to Charing Cross with a Special Stop Order for Abbey Wood for me.

I doubt any of that could happen now...

Avitor
26th Aug 2016, 15:01
Corbyn by nature is a banner waiving protester, the message this time was, we are going to nationalise the railways, perhaps we all know that, it is the Smith character who has me waking in the middle of the night screaming.

Effluent Man
26th Aug 2016, 15:12
I must admit that my experience of Beard Rail was somewhat different from Jezza's. I got on a rather crowded train at Peterborough for Leeds. The ticket collector looked at my advance 2nd class and advised me to sit in the buffet car. A waiter then came and served me lunch with wine. I didn't complain at all.

Avitor
26th Aug 2016, 15:22
I must admit that my experience of Beard Rail was somewhat different from Jezza's. I got on a rather crowded train at Peterborough for Leeds. The ticket collector looked at my advance 2nd class and advised me to sit in the buffet car. A waiter then came and served me lunch with wine. I didn't complain at all.
How nice that would have been had you, like Corbyn, have taken cameras with you.

Krystal n chips
26th Aug 2016, 16:01
" Back in 70s and 80s, with the exception of the Fenchurch Street line which was a disaster and was operated by incompetent staff who lied most of the time when there was a problem, I found BR and especially the Southern Region very good - certainly in comparison to the Fenchurch Street line

Euston shared the same philosophy when it came to staff during that period.

However, once on board the train, matters were entirely different. Not perfect, but nowhere near as diabolic as the many BR detractors purport to be the case.

It's also worth remembering that, the term "customer service" was hardly prevalent across just about any sector in the UK at the time, and still isn't really, despite improvements, "customer service" today can be equally negligible allied to a variety of semi-plausible excuses of course.

BR actually did a pretty good job overall and across the UK..... away from London.

yellowtriumph
26th Aug 2016, 16:20
I smile to myself when I hear the automated station announcement "for your safety and security, camera recording equipment is in use at this station' when what they really mean is "for your surveillance and scrutiny, camera recording equipment is in use at this station". JC and Sir RB sort of proves the point.

radeng
26th Aug 2016, 16:24
Be interesting to see what the data protection people come up with, as Virgin may apparently have broken the DP laws.....

Ancient Observer
26th Aug 2016, 16:47
The DP people and the Corbyn people would be daft to take on Saint Beardy Dopehead.
The public love Branson. I'm not sure what they think about Corbyn.

sitigeltfel
26th Aug 2016, 17:33
Corbyns crew release edited and manipulated footage to promote a lie.

Virgin release all the footage to expose the lie, and Corbyn squeals.

That's about the sum of it.

jimtherev
26th Aug 2016, 17:43
Incidentally, even tho' ECML bears the Beardy title, Virgin actually 'own' only 5% of the concession - or whatever they're calling it this week. Now why did Stagecoach invite Branson on board, I wonder - and why did Virgin accept. Hardly because of the vast profits...

ZeBedie
26th Aug 2016, 21:22
I don't have a problem with what Corbyn did - he staged some theatrics to draw attention to a problem of overcrowding on trains in general.

jimtherev
26th Aug 2016, 21:36
I don't have a problem with what Corbyn did - he staged some theatrics to draw attention to a problem of overcrowding on trains in general.
... and thus gave credence to all the folk that who hold that all politicians are liars. Don't you have a problem with that?

treadigraph
26th Aug 2016, 22:59
I do. Or rather I don't. Corbyn is a ****.

meadowrun
26th Aug 2016, 23:41
And apparently stupid enough to be let himself be talked into that ridiculous piece of propaganda. But, then again - might have been his idea.

419
27th Aug 2016, 00:16
radeng
Be interesting to see what the data protection people come up with, as Virgin may apparently have broken the DP laws.....
But as I mentioned yesterday, what information have Virgin actually released that JC and his PR team not already made public?
All they have really done is to confirm that he was on the train concerned, something that he had already admitted to and they showed cctv of him on the train, prior to which, photographs of him on the train had already been in various newspapers.

Yes, a technical breach of the Data protection act may have occurred but IMO, not one that has resulted in any undisclosed personal data being released.

late-joiner
27th Aug 2016, 07:23
I think the requirement under the DP laws is that Virgin process that data for one of the purposes for which the system is registered. I expect Virgin's lawyers have made those purposes generic enough to cover the company defending its reputation against unjustified allegations by a lying pratt. Or if they did not, they soon will.

late-joiner
27th Aug 2016, 07:35
Here is the entry in the public ICO register for west coast trains:

Reasons/purposes for processing information

We process personal information to enable us to provide a transport service to our customers, maintain our accounts and records, promote our services and manage and support our staff. We also process personal information for the purpose of safety and security, the prevention and detection of crime and prosecution of offenders, and the verification of claims, including using CCTV systems to monitor and collect visual images for these purposes.

I imagine one could argue they were verifying a claim made by a floorboard passenger that there were no seats. The complainant made his point in the public domain. Virgin responded in kind. Fair game in my eyes.

VP959
27th Aug 2016, 09:44
AFAICS, Virgin were absolutely correct to respond to an outright lie, one that was potentially damaging to their reputation. Ignoring the stupid political point, this was someone in the public eye who deliberately made a decision to use the media to make an untrue statement with the express intent of denigrating the company involved.

For that company to not prove the lie, given it was seemingly very easy to do, would have been unusual. More fool Jeremy Corbyn and his team for thinking that they could get away with doing this, and even more fool them if they think that the DPA stops companies from protecting themselves from false accusations.

BTW, I'm no fan of Virgin - I'd go so far as to say I'd never knowingly buy something from them, having had a year of unmitigated hell when they were our cable "service" provider. In my view they are a total shambles that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, but I still defend their right to show that a prominent customer, who has gone to the media, was not telling the truth.

sitigeltfel
27th Aug 2016, 09:58
I wonder if Corbyn will have the gall to ever get on another Virgin train and expose himself to further ridicule. Every time he sits down on any form of public transport, someone is bound to have a (deserved) dig at him.

Peter-RB
27th Aug 2016, 10:56
Siti,

Corblimy sat on a Virgin seat two days later going from Ldn to Edbh..I call that bare faced cheek, from him. he is actually promoting the use of private enterprise..which he states quite openly he will Nationalise once he is in Power!!

Corblimy is a brill dreamer, he must think "one day this will be All Mine and my Comrades"....!!...the mans a Tosser..:ok:

Fairdealfrank
27th Aug 2016, 23:07
If Corbyn wanted a guaranteed seat he had to do one of three things:

(1) reserve his seat;
(2) go in first class;
(3) take a flight.

ORAC
28th Aug 2016, 09:35
That'll be the "different kinder" politics then - just like deselection for any MP who dares to cross the bearded saint's path........

"Virgin boss Sir Richard Branson should be stripped of his knighthood, Jeremy Corbyn's most senior ally urged as the row between the Labour leader and the entrepreneur escalated. Shadow chancellor John McDonnell hit out at the tycoon, claiming he wanted to "undermine our democracy" after Virgin Trains released footage disputing Mr Corbyn's claims about overcrowding on one of its services.......

Labour MP John Woodcock, a prominent critic of the leader, mocked Mr McDonnell's call: "Dare to question Saint Jeremy's version of the truth? John McDonnell will strip you of your knighthood.".........

sitigeltfel
28th Aug 2016, 14:26
"Virgin boss Sir Richard Branson should be stripped of his knighthood, Jeremy Corbyn's most senior ally urged as the row between the Labour leader and the entrepreneur escalated. Shadow chancellor John McDonnell hit out at the tycoon, claiming he wanted to "undermine our democracy" after Virgin Trains released footage disputing Mr Corbyn's claims about overcrowding on one of its services.......

Labour MP John Woodcock, a prominent critic of the leader, mocked Mr McDonnell's call: "Dare to question Saint Jeremy's version of the truth? John McDonnell will strip you of your knighthood.".........

McDonnell is using Bransons tax exile status to push his agenda. But who is Labours biggest non-union donor? Step forward PWC, tax dodging advisers to the wealthy and famous!

It appears that McDonnell has already been stripped of his brain!

Gertrude the Wombat
28th Aug 2016, 14:44
It appears that McDonnell has already been stripped of his brain!
Post facts politics, remember.


And if any of the media should raise that particular point they've got their answer ready - "the right wing Blairite media are just out to get Jeremy".

Fairdealfrank
28th Aug 2016, 22:52
McDonnell is using Bransons tax exile status to push his agenda. But who is Labours biggest non-union donor? Step forward PWC, tax dodging advisers to the wealthy and famous!

It appears that McDonnell has already been stripped of his brain! Must have been a quick procedure! He's supposed to be the puppet master pulling Corbyn's strings isn't he?

Who's the brains in this outfit? They want to renationalise the railways, they want to stay in the EU, EU single market rules prevent the renationalisation of the railways. Someone hasn't done their homework.



And if any of the media should raise that particular point they've got their answer ready - "the right wing Blairite media are just out to get Jeremy". Shouldn't that be: "enbittered old Blairites"?

G-CPTN
12th Sep 2016, 18:04
Jeremy Corbyn's parliamentary seat 'could be abolished' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37342828).

ORAC
12th Sep 2016, 19:32
Apparently it's being combined with the one next door - which is home of the local Jewish community. Meaning who ever stands has to be in their favour.

Someone's having a laugh......

http://order-order.com/2016/09/12/oy-vey-corbyns-new-seat-home-to-huge-jewish-community/