Job chances as a pilot internationally

[akfnqwicvbouq]

Hi

I am 19 years old and interested in becoming a pilot. As I have understood there are 2 possibilities for me to accomplish this:

1) I apply directly to an airline which offers a "zero to hero" program.

2) I get my Licence privately at a flight school

Obviously number 1 would be preferable and the alternative I'll try first, but the chances of getting are close to zero, so I should be prepared to try number 2.

Alternative number 2 is where things get interesting. In Europe where I live it costs around 130000 $. However this is a big risk, as the job market in Europe seems to be very tough.

Personally I don't really care where i get to fly one day. To be honest I'd even prefer flying somewhere out of Europe, for example Asia or (as I am part Australian) in Australia. So how is the job market outside of Europe? Still as tough? Or better?

Are there cheaper ways to get a Licence internationally?

Would the flight hours I get in pilot school even suffice to get a job as a pilot? Or would you have to build hours after pilot school?

I would be happy to hear your opinions!

Thank you

[ChickenHouse]

If you are keen to become a pilot and get an offer for an airline sponsored "zero to hero", just do it. You are young enough for fail shots anyways.

Nobody is able to estimate how the job market will look like when you are finished!

Over the last 50 years we have seen all kind of quirks. Two examples off my circle: when a friend started his physics university studies, there were no unemployed physicists, when he graduated 5 years later, almost nobody got a job, his buddy studied archeology and expected to go directly from graduation to unemployment, but at the same graduation year, they all got hired due to very high unexpected demand.

Do what you like to do and do not care about the future, it will happen anyways. If you have the funds to do a private license, do so and continue as long as it brings you somewhere.

[akfnqwicvbouq]

@Chickenhouse: Thank you very much for your answer. It gave me something to think about :)

@ersa: Does the FAA provide training? I have not been able to find anything to clarify... It did not seem so on their website.

[jamesgrainge]

I wish you the best of luck, but I suggest you pour a big pot of coffee, and start reading the above thread "Modular vs Integrated".

After about a week of reading and research I can assure you it will give you as much information as you need.

Best Wishes

James

[MarkerInbound]

Does the FAA provide training? I have not been able to find anything to clarify... It did not seem so on their website.

The FAA, like most if not all CAAs, sets requirements and standards. How you meet them is up to you.

[Griffon_PMI]

My friend... you need a lot of cooking!

As recommended, read this forums, you will get a better picture, but for what I read in your post you think this "0 to hero" are kind of scholarship. You will see that programs are not from the airlines but on collaboration with them, so it will be a flight school which you have to pay... and then we are talking about that amounts you mention.

There are plenty of flight schools where you can get your licences for less than half of that. I dont want to make publicity of the one I work, but east Europe has very competitive rates.

Then, a few hundred hours will be needed to land your first job, or an instructor rating...

Good luck with your trip and happy landings!

[spaflyer]

Yes you can do all FAA training if you wish and then convert: (Is what I did)


To convert you need: (Pass ATPL EXAMS)
CPL (determined by your European Schoo, but in my case was 5 hours)
IFR/ME (and Class ME Rating) 15 hours (which 10 on sim and 5 real flight).
And checkrides for both and license emission fees.

So add 8000 euros aprox at todays date to convert everything from FAA to EASA.

[akfnqwicvbouq]

Have got a big cup of coffee and am working my way through the "Modular vs Integrated" thread. Very informative thanks! I never even considered it was possible to get the Licences you need for around 40000 pounds. But I wonder, are such cheaply obtained licenses "respectable"?

Another thing I don't quite understand ist at what stage you have a chance to get employed by an airline.
When most integrated or modular courses finish you have a CPL, MCC, MEP and so on. But is this enough to actually get employed?

Do you need a lot more flight hours over the ones you've got at this stage? And as far as I've understood you have not flown anything close to a jet yet, so when does that come in?

[jamesgrainge]

Have got a big cup of coffee and am working my way through the "Modular vs Integrated" thread. Very informative thanks! I never even considered it was possible to get the Licences you need for around 40000 pounds. But I wonder, are such cheaply obtained licenses "respectable"?

Another thing I don't quite understand ist at what stage you have a chance to get employed by an airline.
When most integrated or modular courses finish you have a CPL, MCC, MEP and so on. But is this enough to actually get employed?

Do you need a lot more flight hours over the ones you've got at this stage? And as far as I've understood you have not flown anything close to a jet yet, so when does that come in?

Yes, the licences that are gained through modular or Integrated are the exact same licence, and are just as respectable, especially if you go to a school that is fairly well recognised. After you gain a CPL you can get paid for flying, crop dusting, aerial photography etc. Although to fly for any kind of passenger base you will probably need an IR (instrument rating) and an ME (multi engine). And passes the ATPL theory exams. So now you have those licences at your chosen school, you have the exact same ticket as the person who went to CTC. Congratulations. You are both qualified pilots. So you want to fly a larger aircraft, now add a Multi Crew Cooperation Course (MCC), and you decide you want to fly a jet (which is most of us lets be honest). Now you must sit a Jet Orientation Course (JOC). At this point you have not sat in a jet, purely in the sim. No matter which school you have attended. At this point you can all rightfully apply to any airline for employment. Easyjet wont have us because they like to have their own crew tied into their airline with no hope of escape, and no flag carrier as they take their own cadets. Someone gives you a job, now you must go and get a Type Rating,which allows you to fly that one type of aircraft, 320, 737, 757 etc. At this point you will learn the aircraft in the sim, the airlines SOP and basically everything you need to know (line training) After passing the sim you will FINALLY after all the waiting, working and flying, sit yourself in the cockpit of the aircraft and perform a minimum of 6 (I think if I remember correctly) touch and go's until you get them right.
Then button up your uniform officer, you are off to the skies, congratulations!

Never ever believe the "certainty, the guarantee, the promises" of employment after training from any school. Nor their figures. There are hundreds of people who were Integrated students sat behind a desk wondering why, and there are hundreds of modular students sat in the left seat of a 747 feeling damn lucky and proud of themselves.

The only person who can complete all this training, is YOU! The only person who has the desire is YOU, the only person who will get themselves a job is YOU. The amount of bitter ex students with huge debt who badmouth things on this forum have a basic flaw, and its called "their attitude". A corner shop isn't going to hire an asshole, so why would an airline.

Always get a ppl first, then you will know if you actually enjoy flying in its purest form. Hope my ramblings have answered any questions, this place is full of far more knowledgeable people than me.

[akfnqwicvbouq]

Hope my ramblings have answered any questions, this place is full of far more knowledgeable people than me.

Yes, they certainly have. Thanks!

So the licenses aren't a problem. What about flight hours? With the enormous competition out there I'd expect it to be pretty tough if you've only got your 200-300 hours from flight school if there are others with more...

[SeventhHeaven]

Quote from above:

To convert you need: (Pass ATPL EXAMS)
CPL (determined by your European Schoo, but in my case was 5 hours)
IFR/ME (and Class ME Rating) 15 hours (which 10 on sim and 5 real flight).
And checkrides for both and license emission fees.

So add 8000 euros aprox at todays date to convert everything from FAA to EASA.

How old is your info? Because I did something similar recently, even applied for exemptions with the UK CAA and I spent way more time and money than that :P Note that I only had 200 hours so I did not qualify for the easy path when you have 500 or 1500+ hours.

For example, The ATPL exams alone would be 4000€, as you have to go through a distance learning course before you can even sit the exams. The CPL and IR skills tests still cost 800£ each or something in that region. We haven't done any flying yet and we're already above 5500€ in course and exam fees!

[Mooneyboy]

Haven't posted in here for a long long time but occasionally I have a look to see what's going on and was a little concerned by jamesgrainge post. I know your topic is about looking outside of Europe but on your option 1 my thoughts are this:

I did the modular route a over a decade ago. Jamesgrainge is absolutely correct modular/integrated you ll have the same license at the end of the day. That was partly my reasoning and also the savings in cost. I was lucky. Finished my fatpl managed to get into another training group and 2 years after I finished I was sitting in the RHS of an airline.

I'm now extremely fortunate to be sitting in the LHS of a well known European airline which means I get to fly with lots of newly qualified FO's. A vast majority but not all were integrated/MPL. The airlines at the moment for newbie FO's seem to massively prefer this. If I had to go through it all again I would be banging on the door of CTC/Oxford trying to get on an integrated/MPL course if you have the available finance. No easy task I know.


Lastly only get a PPL if you are definitely going modular. It would be a waste to do a whole PPL then decide to go integrated. My advice do say 5/10 hours at a local flying school to get a good taster then decide.

[Mooneyboy]

Just like to add that line training after you've done your base training is still a steep mountain to climb. Unfortunately people still fall at the last hurdle. It's only once you done your final line check that you can relax a little until your next recurrent sim.

I'm not saying integrated you are guaranteed of a position as jamesgrainge correctly says. I know and know of people who have sadly gained an fATPL through both channels and haven't got to their final goal. It's all a gamble at the end of the day. Good luck.

[akfnqwicvbouq]

I know and know of people who have sadly gained an fATPL through both channels and haven't got to their final goal. It's all a gamble

At the end of the day I guess thats just what it is...

However it would interest me why some people just don't get employed. Obviously, its because there are a lot more aspiring pilots than jobs available.

But is it just that some "don't win the lottery", meaning that its just bad luck that they don't get a job or is there another reason? For example they haven't got enough flight hours or something like that?

What is usually the procedure when applying at an airline? Do you still do tests (like the entry tests in the airline zero to hero programs) or is it more like a classic job interview?

[jamesgrainge]

Maybe look at your doing your PPL first, see if you actually like flying.

Lol. You would hope so, imagine paying for your ATPL course and finding you didn't actually enjoy flying