Skies above Britain

[Jayand]

What a good programme, good mix of aviation interests. Highlighting once again in an understated way the bravery and professionalism of UK SAR amongst the other excellent features.

[Tankertrashnav]

I thought the SAR section was brilliant - is there an equivalent of the AFC for civvies? That woman (the "winch wench") deserved one. The Typhoon guys doing decompression training brought back memories of North Luffenham, but they should have shown the one when they make you hypoxic - that can be quite funny for the observer! Good programme - looking forward to the next one.

Anyone know what that old French job was right at the end?

[Tiger_mate]

The French job that looked like a cross between a Beaver and a Lancaster was a Max-Holste Broussard.

[BEagle]

Max Holste MH.1521 Broussard, based at White Waltham....:8

And yes, a very good programme, I thought.

Turning trousers have obviously come a long way since the things we wore in Gnat/Hunter days! But we regularly pulled 5G in the JP without them, even when there wasn't the current fitness obsession. Didn't seem to be a problem; neither was 7G in the Hawk (or 8G once in a Hunter T7...:eek:) - so I wonder whether there's some benefit from repeated exposure to G forces as well as the various straining manoeuvres taught nowadays? Although sustaining 9G is something very different, of course.

[Tashengurt]

Ttn,
A Max Holste Broussard I believe.
It was good and the SAR crew were truly impressive.
Good to see a few familiar faces!

[Tashengurt]

At least we all said the same!

[TURIN]

Very impressive. The SAR bit had me holding my breath.

Best not tell the JB lot the BBC have made a good program. :E

[Tankertrashnav]

Thanks guys - yes very like a Beaver head on, with a Lanc tail bolted on the back!

I remember pulling 6G in a JP without too much trouble without a suit when being flown by a display pilot. Wouldnt fancy it much now though!

[Wycombe]

Good prog, particularly enjoyed the witty banter on the S92. They must be ex-mil.

[NutLoose]

The lone Typhoon QRA jet scenario went through more colour schemes than a 70's airline disaster movie. :E

Good programme :)

Kudos to the winch wench



..

[Wycombe]

The lone Typhoon QRA jet scenario went through more colour schemes than a 70's airline disaster movie

Realised the QRA event shown was "for exercise" as soon as a FRA/Cobham Falcon came into view.

[Oldlae]

Most impressed with the SAR hangar, just thinking back to the Lee-on-Solent hangar when the rats were eating the seat belts.

[VX275]

Realised the QRA event shown was "for exercise" as soon as a FRA/Cobham Falcon came into view.


And wouldn't the call sign therefore be "Rushton" and not as the BBC had it "Rushden".
Not the only verbal slip either. How long have the RAF had 'Flight Lewtenants'?

[TURIN]

How long have the RAF had 'Flight Lewtenants'?

Indeed. I couldn't have been the only one who yelled at the telly "It's LEFTENANT you pillock!"

[handsfree]

Best not tell the JB lot the BBC have made a good program.Oi ! I heard that TURIN.

Must agree though, excellent programme.
My esteem for the SAR crews has reached new heights and
why are people like the "winch wench" not given gongs by
outgoing Prime Ministers rather than the rabble that get them.

[Tashengurt]

I was also thinking "medals!" But then I wondered if the crew themselves would welcome this or if it would be seen as a slight against their MRT colleagues who had found, secured and stabilised the casualty.
Just speculating, for all I know the MRT were as agog as the rest of us.

[BEagle]

What was that strange morning conference thing with the Stn Cdr? Everyone standing around - is that some modern day 'motivation' idea? I know that Oma.....Stelios used to hold all easyJet meetings with everyone standing, so has that idea migrated across to the RAF?

[Treble one]

What was that strange morning conference thing with the Stn Cdr? Everyone standing around - is that some modern day 'motivation' idea? I know that Oma.....Stelios used to hold all easyJet meetings with everyone standing, so has that idea migrated across to the RAF?


I thought they were standing to attention cos the Staish was in the room :OHe is a Group Captain after all :O

[MightyGem]

I couldn't have been the only one who yelled at the telly "It's LEFTENANT you pillock!"
No you weren't. :) I was surprised by the lack of intemperate language by the SAR crew. Obviously no ex Army guys there. :)

[sitigeltfel]

As it involved the Military, there was an all too predictably sneering review from....you know who!

Enough! Get me out of here! Preferably to somewhere more reassuring, such as, erm, the RAF Typhoon counter-terrorism base. This is where a select group of pilots who have been on £8m training courses are primed and ready to leg it on to hi-tech planes to deal with any unidentified craft in British airspace. When Nats can’t get a plane to communicate with them, we rely on this lot to sort it out by scrambling jets in a matter of minutes. Once there, they trail them for a bit then waggle their wings theatrically, before flying up beside them and revealing their massive missiles like some kind of aggressively militaristic mating call. If this doesn’t work, then the prime minister makes a call on whether or not to blast them out of the sky. Theresa May is on holiday right now, and Boris Johnson is in charge. Just a thought.
The show did its best to ramp up the drama, but actually there was precious little. The unidentified plane that wandered into Gatwick’s flight path and forced the cancellation of all arrivals turned out to be piloted by a plonker. The plane trailed by a Typhoon that refused to respond turned out to be a training exercise. Boring. Although probably for the best, no matter how much the start of the third world war would have made for a more exciting hour of television.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/aug/18/skies-above-britain-review-great-canal-journeys-get-me-out-of-here

[The Fat Controller]

Some good bits, but terrible editing, difficult enough for aviation professionals to follow but impossible for the the man on the street.

[crablab]

It was certainly good, as people have said the voice over was...interesting! SAR had me agog - the length those guys go to, puts the infringer at Gatwick to shame when you have these guys 100nm North!

I wish they'd covered a bit more of the ATC side, perhaps that is to come? I've always wanted to know how these controllers manage to deal with the huge volumes of traffic...

[just another jocky]

But we regularly pulled 5G in the JP without them, even when there wasn't the current fitness obsession. Didn't seem to be a problem; neither was 7G in the Hawk (or 8G once in a Hunter T7...http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif) - so I wonder whether there's some benefit from repeated exposure to G forces as well as the various straining manoeuvres taught nowadays? Although sustaining 9G is something very different, of course.

And we can pull 6G without the aid of a g-suit too, but as you rightly suggest, instantaneous G is relatively easy, it's sustained G that is difficult, hence the extra PT and G-straining manoeuvres.

I think they know what they're doing! ;)

[crablab]

Also, is it just me or is the statement from the NATS lady at the beginning: "all aircraft that are receiving an ATC service over England and Wales are getting it from this room" substantially incorrect!?

[Basil]

As it involved the Military, there was an all too predictably sneering review from....you know who!

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/aug/18/skies-above-britain-review-great-canal-journeys-get-me-out-of-here
The writer: 'Tim Jonze is the music editor of guardian.co.uk. You can follow him on Twitter at @timjonze'
Think I'll give it a miss :rolleyes:

P.S For anyone thinking of commenting in the Graun; I understand that deviation from the Party Line will have you banned and your comment deleted.

[Basil]

All very impressive.
I've stood in Swanwick and watched the workload increase as a line of Cb passed through.
Needless to say, envied the fighter jocks and was mega impressed by the decision making and execution of the mountain rescue. Loved the way the casualty grabbed the first part of the chopper which came within reach.

[Basil]

Hey! Just had a thought re rotor blade proximity to obstructions.
What about a laser ranging array just under the rotor to give visual and audible warning?

[212man]

Hey! Just had a thought re rotor blade proximity to obstructions.
What about a l@ser ranging array just under the rotor to give visual and audible warning?

What - like this one? AgustaWestland Helicopter Obstacle Proximity LIDAR System - Aerossurance (http://aerossurance.com/helicopters/helicopter-obstacle-proximity-lidar-system/)

[sharpend]

I agree that the winch operator deserves a medal. She, and the others, were incredibly brave. They decided it was unsafe to go to where the walker was, but when told that the walker would die if the did not, they risked their own lives anyway. I watched that program and was amazed and full of admiration.

[Basil]

What - like this one? AgustaWestland Helicopter Obstacle Proximity LIDAR System - Aerossurance (http://aerossurance.com/helicopters/helicopter-obstacle-proximity-lidar-system/)
Buggah! Too late again!

[ifonly]

And wouldn't the call sign therefore be "Rushton" and not as the BBC had it "Rushden".

Not sure - I've been told two different things:-

I was told it was something to do with Alan Cobham's association with the village of Rushden in the 1930s.

Also told it was something to do with Tarrant Rushton.

[Basil]

if not for the guys in the Local and doing Director
Isn't some Director done remotely and I noticed a report about remote Local too.
British airports consider replacing air traffic controllers with remote system (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/british-airports-consider-replacing-air-traffic-controllers-with/)

[Il Duce]

Basil, maybe so however, as Crablab wrote, the statement is substantially incorrect. There will have been dozens of aircraft ouside controlled receiving an ATC service which wasn't supplied by Swanwick and dozens inside controlled airspace (around Manchester, Birmingham, East Midlands etc) that weren't receiving an ATC service from Swanwick.

[wub]

The Rushton Winch was fitted to Canberras for target towing - a service provided today by FR Aviation

[99 Change Hands]

I don't know where she worked in RAF ATC but it seems it didn't have a LARS function. Long before the Flight Lootenant comment, I was reeling from her claim that Swanwick do everything.

She was at Marham in the early 80's.

[BEagle]

At least the programme showed what chaos can be caused by an unknown puddlejumper blundering into controlled airspace....

Yet there are still some GA pilots who think that an infringement doesn't really matter if it didn't actually affect anyone else at the time....:mad:

[beefix]

Wub
Not quite right. Delmar high speed winch with the Rushton target. Many years ago I used to sit in the back of Meteor TT20s and operate the system. In case you are wondering, 1574 Target Facilities Flight , RAF Changi.

Rgds SJH

[MPN11]

Right ... thank you BBC iPlayer. All the above comments now make sense!!!

I enjoyed the programme, and whilst I could pick a few inaccuracies and unnecessary embellishments (Typhoon victory rolls, anyone?) I think it served the British Public quite well.

Basil ... Scampton Director was operated from the Wadington Approach Room in the 80s, but I accept that's not quite what's being discussed.

beefix ... 1574 of fond/distant memory, with their rather smart black tail-fins IIRC ;) They enabled me to claim I controlled Meteors on my first 2 tours in ATC :)

[NDW]

An excellent programme and I echo the above comments ref the Coastguard crews, absolutely fantastic and I always enjoyed watching them whilst they were training here at Norwich.

Question that I had been meaning to ask and I don't at all mean this to be insensitive at all, but I noticed the Flt Lt who I assume appeared to suffer from Alopecia flying in the Typhoon. I'm presuming the RAF allow FJ Pilots and any Aircrew to continue flying? I (as a civvy and outsider and one who stands to be firmly corrected) only thought that the lack of eyelashes/eyebrows etc would possibly cause issues with sweat whilst flying?

I must admit, upon looking at the RAF medical requirements - I from what I recall, never saw alopecia on the list as a bar to entry.

Merely curious and as I say - don't wish to sound or come across insensitive.

Thanks.

[FantomZorbin]

Ifonly
RUSHTON was used as a c/s by aircraft flying for Flight Refuelling out of Tarrant Rushton flying targets for the "Thursday War" with the RN et alia.

[wub]

Beefix:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/wub_01/canb.jpg

They were certainly known as Rushton winches on the TT18 Canberras of 7 Sqn at St Mawgan.. They didn't always deploy a Rushton target, sometimes a sleeved target for daytime gunnery practice was used.

Photo taken by me in 1972

[Basil]

Scampton Director was operated from the Wadington Approach Room in the 80s
On my ground tour we controlled Alconbury arr & dep from Wyton.
Then, just to make a mix of types and speeds a little more interesting we had a UAS summer camp with solo studes fluttering around and getting in the way.

[MPN11]

A nationwide network certainly paints a grander picture than the current system that I am familiar with. There was a time..... Border, Northern, Eastern, Southern, Western and Highland radar. ... and Ulster, Midland, London, Cotswold, Scottish ;)

I'm sure I'm missing somebody ... that's only 11, and I'm sure there were 12 when I was managing MATO ASIs and Unit SOPs.

[SirToppamHat]

Was Brize a Centre back in those days MPN11?

1ACC would have been No 1 Air Control Centre (deployable CRC in simple terms). Still in existence and deployed on Ops, though not in the UK. They do have a UK capability though and presumably did back then?

Interesting programme, but as far as the QRA(I) segment was concerned, there was a much better stab at it made by Sky TV last year - still around on You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hijzP1zzLI

Having just had a quick re-visit to the Sky video, I am not sure that there weren't some bits borrowed from it for this programme.

[Hempy]

Yet there are still some GA pilots who think that an infringement doesn't really matter if it didn't actually affect anyone else at the time....

A couple of years ago there was a R-44 pilot who decided to some hover training about a mile and a half from the threshold of RWY16 at YMML (the active) in the middle of the midday gaggle. All arrivals and departures cancelled for 30 min as desperate attempts were made to contact the pilot. Eventually Cpt Doofus realised the error of his ways, and promptly switched off his transponder and high-tailed it for a secondary aerodrome to the south. Unfortunately he obviously wasn't aware of the capabilities of primary radar, and subsequent enquiries discovered that there only one R-44 of that particular colour at said aerodrome.

I don't think the patterns were cleared until well after the evening peak died off. He would have cost the industry millions that day :ugh:

[MPN11]

I never spoke to Ulster, tried to hand over a southbound Vulcan at FL410 to Midland one day... that didn't go away quietly. At least it made a change from them refusing because it was either in their overhead or at the edge of cover, two areas which seemed to almost overlap.Well, schoolboy error there ... MRD weren't allowed to control traffic above FL245. That privilege was reserved to NRD/ERD in that area!

LAZI was the enemy, resented because they got all the gucci kit. I'd never heard it referred to as LAZI before! Anyway, it may have had the kit but it didn't quite have the 'attitude' of NRD and ERD - they could be as bad as MRD in some ways, with remarks like "I haven't got a flight plan for that". As I once said, "I don't care, there's the radar return and that's the aircraft. Now take the bloody handover!"

The only other unit I remember talking to regularly was Dutch Mil.Dutch Mil was, of course, bread and butter for those of us working the FIR boundary.

The scopies had their own world of Buchan, Boulmer, Staxton Wold & Neatishead. At Northern we had a tie line to 1ACC but I can't remember who that was for.1ACC [then at Wattisham] did occasionally control the Lightnings out of Wattisham and Colishall, presumably to keep their staff in practice. It was a fairly infrequent occurrence, though.

Cotswold was really just Brize approach ... Was Brize a Centre back in those days MPN11?Oxford Radar/Cotswold Radar was aways an odd one. Yes, it operated from within the Brize approach room, and was largely concerned with Lower Airspace traffic [and a bit of CAC]. But it was a MATO Unit ... while the rest of ATC was a STC unit :)


BTW ... have you ATC chaps found This Website (https://atchistory.wordpress.com/2016/08/20/the-last-post-before-christmas/) yet?

[Bevo]

Flying Phantoms out of RAF Lakenheath in the 72-75 time frame I found the British ATC chaps to very proficient and professional. I especially remember returning from deployments at Aviano Italy and feeling like I was in good (better?) hands after the transfer from the French ATC to London Mil. :D

[MPN11]

Thank you, Bevo ... that could have been me at either London or Eastern ;)

"Cleared to the Lakenheath fix, decent and report level FL180, expect penetration on arrival, base weather <blah blah blah>"

PS: I was the Staff Officer who persuaded USAF and others to use the Colour Code for weather, saving a lot of RT time ;)

PPS: I used to visit LK [and UH, and BW/WB] regularly to lecture at the Instrument School Indoctrination for new USAF pilots in the UK. Indeed, I still have copies of the presentation slides!

PPPS: I have a former USN pilot buddy in VA, who regularly flew from Rota to ML around that time. We reckon we spoke often before we met in a neighbourhood bar a few decades later ... and I will be seeing him there again in a couple of weeks ;)

[Bevo]

MPN11 the world is sure a smaller place with the internet. It is interesting that we could easily have conversed many years ago. :D Thanks.

[Martin the Martian]

Caught up with this last night; quite impressed, though the one bit that rankled (apart from the flight-lootenant voiceover) was the typical spotter and his mum.:rolleyes:

Kudos to the SAR crew. With all the comments I have heard about civilian crews not being as committed as the RAF/RN teams, I shall be happy to mention this programme to the next plonker who speaks that in my presence.

[wub]

Martin, typical spotters pay taxes and attend air shows where funds are raised for service charities.

[MPN11]

Apart from my [corporate/RAF] trips to Farnborough, I only know the [free] Jersey Air Display, where we did pay a substantial sum one year to dine and view in the VIP enclave.

I recall to my horror being rather under the affluence of inkahol, and being rather 'inappropriate' to AM Dusty Miller :(

Proceeds to RAFA ;)

[wub]

Airpolice, my point was simply that Martin expressed irritation at 'spotters' being included in the programme. Spotters are citizens of the country that the RAF exists to defend. I write as someone who served inthe RAF and who enjoys photographing aircraft.

[Lala Steady]

Martin - I think you'll find that the Captain, winch operator and winch wench are all ex-RAF, don't know about the co-jo as he/she wasn't shown.

The level of professionalism is the reason so many from RAF/RN were taken on by Bristow.

[NutLoose]

What Wub said

[Martin the Martian]

Not at all, Wub. Having spent many an hour outside fences myself I often class myself as a spotter. What rankled was the way that they were portrayed: look, the saddo with his mum.

[MPN11]

What price the anonymous individuals who spend hours a a day using Internet forums and chat rooms? How can you get a sun tan doing that? ;)

[wub]

Martin, ok, wires crossed, apologies.

[andytug]

To me it was more the way they portrayed the spotter, it was all "lives with his mum and can't get a girlfriend" kind of thing, bit unfair to say the least.
SAR bit was proper scary though, bit like the RNLI series the other week, makes you appreciate even more what they do.

[jindabyne]

What was that strange morning conference thing with the Stn Cdr?

My thoughts too BEags: weird. Great prog though!

[NutLoose]

They all looked like they had been velcroed to the wall.

[MPN11]

That's like all the photographs you see of the AOC's visit to Air Traffic and all of the boys n girls are wearing their Number 1 jackets sitting at the console looking uncomfortable.Ah, once upon a distant we all wore No 1 HD to work in ATC! A bloody expensive way of wearing out a uniform!!

I was very glad to escape to FEAF, and be able to wear out cheap clothes :D

[Tankertrashnav]

Anyone see tonight's programme. Didn't think it was so good as last week's, although it had its moments.

What an absolute prize tool that drone bloke was - definitely making a case for every drone in the country not in mil hands to be put in the crusher!

[H Peacock]

What an absolute prize tool that drone bloke was - ...!

As was the bloke shouting through the PA during the Redbull racing.

I'm not sure the severely time-limited rush to change the alternator on a single-engine prop before launching it at Ascot was a smart move! Perhaps a rush to fix a racing car is do-able in F1, but surely it has no place in the world of aviation.

[Wycombe]

Good to see one of my former instructors (John Griffin) still plying his trade on last nights prog!

It was however a bit a lacking in spectacle following the Typhoon and SAR antics in the first show.

Bonhomme struck me as a bit of a primadonna aswell (although no doubting his flying skills).

[LeggyMountbatten]

Anyone see tonight's programme.

Half way through I couldn't stand any more of drone-tool and the mission to take ashes to India ("go by boat", I shouted). I actually turned the TV off and engaged in some unseasonal tidying up, so dire was the programme.

[Evalu8ter]

As a proponent of UAVs I was horrified by the "Drone" Muppet. How surprising that you should see an inconvenient helicopter when you've elected to fly that close to RAF Benson (Ewelme is very close to downwind for the main rwy) - so if he's allowed to 400' low level circuit traffic could get pretty adjacent.

Having been to a number of events, including some at the RAeS, this level of muppetry is exactly what the industry is trying to stamp out. Well meaning, but catastrophically under prepared, amateurs trying to make a "quick buck" by strapping cameras to UAVs - at least this guy had tried to get qualified - but the gulf in his expectation of what his qualification would entitle him to do and what it actually did re London was jaw dropping.

PB did come across a little precious, but context is everything and I imagine he was in "race mode" with the juices flowing when the race day interviews were done (and doubtless the organisers like to stoke matters up a bit for PR). Away from the race he was far more measured and showed a strong desire to win - I can't criticise a guy for that.

[ORAC]

I never spoke to Ulster, tried to hand over a southbound Vulcan at FL410 to Midland one day... that didn't go away quietly.

I handed over a Lightning to Midland on recovery to Binbrook on one occasion.

Me: " Binbrook recovery, fuel priority, 040, edge of the dive, squawking xxxx, VFR"

Midland: "fine, throw him across, stud 5".

Neglected to tell him he was at FL680 descending....

Last few weeks before Binbrook closed and everyone was seeing how high they could get. The opportunity was too good to miss. They weren't happy when he checked in though.

Happy days.

[212man]

I'm not sure the severely time-limited rush to change the alternator on a single-engine prop before launching it at Ascot was a smart move! Perhaps a rush to fix a racing car is do-able in F1, but surely it has no place in the world of aviation.

I doubt it was real - just the inevitable artificial ramping up of drama that has become commonplace in all 'documentaries' these days.

[NutLoose]

I'm not sure the severely time-limited rush to change the alternator on a single-engine prop before launching it at Ascot was a smart move! Perhaps a rush to fix a racing car is do-able in F1, but surely it has no place in the world of aviation. An alternator change is a simple affair, a couple of bolts, a couple of leads and then back on, no great sweat and of course the aircraft can still operate on battery for the required safety period if the alternator fails.
It can take longer to get the cowls off and on than to do the alternator change.

[MPN11]

IMO that episode was a great disappointment. Indeed, it's only from reading this thread that I can recall what my eyeballs saw last night. Somewhat shallow.


OK, I'm a BOF and orobably not the target audience.

[BEagle]

Well, I thought last night's programme was very good.

A well-balanced variety of airspace users; yes, the drone operator was rather naïve with some of his views, but at least he's now keen to work within the rules.

Here's what's in the next episode:


Beneath the Clouds

Skies Above Britain Episode 3 of 5

For thousands of recreational pilots, uncontrolled airspace - the skies beyond commercial routes - are a place of freedom and adventure and for many, flying in them can become an obsession.

Al Coutts and Willie Cruikshank are the Wildcats, two former RAF pilots who perform aerobatic stunts at air displays across the UK. With several recent tragedies at air shows, Al and Willy must finish their display season safely.

Julia Foxwell is a champion skydiver who relinquished her crown after having her first child. Now she is juggling motherhood with an intense training schedule as she attempts to win again at the National Skydiving Championships.

Pete Dolby has been flying balloons for over a quarter of a century - now he is attempting to fly Britain's first solar balloon, powered using just the sun's energy. The experimental balloon will be launched at Europe's biggest ballooning event - the Bristol Balloon Fiesta.

Elsewhere, Ady Dolan, NATS air traffic controller at Heathrow, works the most congested and highly regulated patch of sky in the UK - the congested skies above the capital.

[Chugalug2]

I agree Beags, a very reasonable offering. I found the story of the two people getting airborne despite;

a). Severe physical limitations standing in the way of pilot training, and

b). a morbid fear of flying getting in the way of paxing to the other side of the world to scatter a mother's ashes

...quite uplifting. Aviation programmes don't have to be all about rugged granite-jawed super heroes, though we were duly fed with a great chunk of that as well.

I always appreciate programmes centred on the Air Traffic Services, and have always taken the opportunity to visit towers and centres alike when so offered. Likewise, I have also flown LATCC controllers on the jump seat for "liaison" purposes, though a lot of their liaison was with a bottle and 200, IIRC. :ok:

Oh, edited to add that I was a bit surprised that the emergency exercise for controllers of a supposed explosive decompression was simulated by the trainer transmitting through his cupped hands into a boom mike. Why not wear a quick-don oxygen mask and speak through that mike for greater realism?

[Brian 48nav]

SWMBO and I both thought the programme was poor - the first edition had lots of potentially good stuff ( SAR, Typhoon, LATCC etc ) but wandered all over the place with no continuity and a dreadful commentary. Too many shots of people's noses and hands, and 'bosses' wandering around trying to look important and busy.
From an ATC point of view shots of radar screens with no attempt to explain to the layman what they are looking at. It would only have taken a few minutes for someone to have stood in front of a screen describing what all the 'writing' means i.e. callsign, level, speed etc - and to explain some of the RT that could be heard.
I know Swanwick ATCO son and D-i-L were not impressed - be interesting to see what their mate Steve Moore ( management 'star' last night ) thought.

[Tashengurt]

No ones ever going to make a programme that describes all the intricacies of ATC. It'd fascinate a minority and bore the majority to tears.
I didn't enjoy it as much as the first but then my interest in fear of flying courses, Red Bull air racing and flying with disabilities is low.
I kinda fancy drone flying though. Wonder if I've missed the boat on getting a job doing that?

[MPN11]

Well, as the Red Bull racing was mentioned ... is the fairly built-up area around Ascot racecourse an ideal environment to be zooming around at high speed with 90º AOB at not-a-lot-of-feet? I hope [and indeed pray] that everything happens over the Golf Course to the NE, but somehow I doubt it - otherwise the crowds won't see much..

Doesn't that beg for a repeat of Shoreham, or indeed many other crowd-related incidents. And in this case, there's a swathe of residential properties bordering the racecourse.


(Google Maps screenshot refusing to upload ... sorry)

[Innominate]

the drone operator was rather naïve with some of his views, but at least he's now keen to work within the rules.and perhaps others who thought that they can fly a drone around a museum full of people and artefacts will have realised that there are limitations!

[andytug]

The drone guy struck me as a bit of a selfish narcissist to be honest, posting his daily life on YouTube no matter what and it followed through into his drone use. A cursory Google search would have told him that flying a drone anywhere near a public building, especially in the centre of London, is liable to result in you being asked if you're a terrorist at the very least, and as for flying it inside the Nat History Museum..... what a prat. Apart from the obvious dangers, who the hell wants a noisy bloody thing like that buzzing round a museum? Possibly the only thing worse than tourists taking pictures with full size Ipads, which is about as inconsiderate as you can get now. No thought for others seems to be an increasing disease these days.

[Sandy Parts]

I enjoyed it but I admit I watched it with the 'filter' of thinking "this isn't aimed at those with an aviation background". If you look at it as the BBC attempting to entertain and educate those without such knowledge, it seems a good stab to me.

[Beancountercymru]

I was trying to work why a drone operator needed the hi viz jacket. Was it in case he flew his drone into himself?

On a similar subject I noticed the mass ranks of Fleet Street's finest had to be so equipped to snap our returning Olympic medalists , who despite sharing the same tarmac , were not so equipped

[Wander00]

Like BBC reporter and interviewee on dry land at Blyth this morning, wearing life jackets

[MPN11]

No comments on my #86? I'm surprised!

[BEagle]

An explanation was provided during the programme....:rolleyes:

[MPN11]

Sorry ... I clearly missed that [deaf old git factor].

STFU time, clearly. Sorry. :uhoh:

[Il Duce]

Just watching latest offering. Where the funk is Whattlesham???

[Danny42C]

Think he means (Wiki),

"Wattisham Airfield (ICAO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Civil_Aviation_Organization_airport_code): EGUW) is the biggest centralised operational Army Airfield in the UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom)"

D.

[Paracab]

So much faux outrage over a programme that isn't even meant for you lot. Is it worth it? Are you forced to watch it? :ugh: This weekly, minute dissection of each episode isn't worth the raise in blood pressure. Vote by changing channel. Or just enjoy the good bits of flying and leave it at that.

Watching Angela Griffen **** a brick (well acted though, I've no doubt) every time they copped a red call during her ride outs with the ambulance service on a documentary in the same vein just made me laugh; all she had to do was observe! This is the first time I've even had the energy to mention it. I soon changed channel when that was on as well.

[ImageGear]

Started watching, got as far as the Barons wench cleaning his windscreen, then I glazed over and went to the fridge and got a better response after opening the door. Tried again but can't say I'm impressed by the seemingly endless "we've got 'im" and "where is he?". The chap doing the IOM milk run was the only bright spot of real flying that held my attention.

Very disjointed and did not flow well and eventually became mind-numbingly boring.:ugh:

Imagegear

[H Peacock]

I quite enjoyed last night's prog. Some quite scary aircraft handling and CRM at the Alderney air race event. I thought that Great Lakes type pusher job was a gonna as it made a very poor attempt at a sporty departure!

[622]

And what have the producers got against gliding ?.....still waiting to hear reference to it other than the odd comment from one of the NATS people. http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

[Saintsman]

Interesting bit about the couple complaining of the noise at East Midlands.

Normally I would think "Why move there in the first place?", but as they had been there 40 years, the airport has changed somewhat in that time.

However, if it bothered me that much, I think I would have moved by now...

[Hueymeister]

Staish Conningsburg...lovely bloke btw..

sat in a Spit/Hurricane '...every boy's little dream'..

I know what he meant!

[Tankertrashnav]

Particularly as they've repeated that clip at the beginning of every episode. He had one line to say, and he muffed it! Still, could have been worse, he might have been the first man on the moon.

(I'm only jealous because I'm not the one sitting in the Spit or Hurricane :()

[mmitch]

I hope there is feature on the collections of historic aircraft like Shuttleworth, the Fighter Collection, BBMF and RNHF. Also the restorers.
mmitch.

[Wycombe]

The chap doing the IOM milk run was the only bright spot of real flying that held my attention

That was the bit I most enjoyed aswell. Single pilot, in a relativily fast/complex twin, night IFR, in the weather with no weather radar. And no-one to help if it got a bit busy.
Took it all in his stride.

A few "children of the magenta line" could probably learn a bit from that unglamorous side of flying.

[SPIT]

If you look you will see that one of the Barons is wearing some sort of( what only looks like) rank badge on his shoulders, what were they ????

[Wander00]

Spit - both Barons were wearing what looked like RAF wings, and he a captain's 4 rings and she a SFO's 3 rings on their shoulders

[Sloppy Link]

I hope there is feature on the collections of historic aircraft like Shuttleworth, the Fighter Collection, BBMF and RNHF. Also the restorers.
mmitch.

All three Services operate in some guise Historics Aircaft you know! I'm sure no offence was meant and none has been taken.
http://www.aeroresource.co.uk/news/historic-aircraft-flight-trust/

[Tankertrashnav]

Spit and Wander00

From wiki

Geoffrey Boot is a Manx-based British air racer who races with his navigator wife Suzie Boot.

He is a UK commercial pilot and instructor.

He is a "minor baron" — Baron Boot of Waughton — whose arms were matriculated (enrolled) on 18 March 1999. In Scotland feudal minor baronies may be transferred by purchase.

Blimey, a baronetcy that goes all the way back to the mists of 1999! I wonder how much that cost him? No mention of RAF flying, maybe he did a bit before going commercial. I suspect that's the case, otherwise it would be a bit of a cheek to wear RAF pilot's wings.

Btw - I suppose as a team they are known as the Flying Boots?

(hat, coat etc)

Another thumbs up for the bloke on the IOM parcels run. I suspect he is earning way less than a poor downtrodden London Underground driver (who hasn't got a £75k loan to pay back out of his or her fat salary).

[Royalistflyer]

Thread drift but still skies over Britain: Has anyone ever traced the real origin of this footage: https://www.facebook.com/stephen.rawlings.77 (https://www.facebook.com/stephen.rawlings.77)
Compare with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhOhCmk6sYw From 0.37 to 1.07. The Spitfire - Me109 is I assume fake, but it has several questions such as the brevity, inconclusiveness and how did he wire in to get both sides of radio. My elder brother fixed a cine camera above the pilots seat during Korea and captured some good footage of ground attacks with rockets, but no sound.

[Shaft109]

I was thinking the 'dentist killer' tag applied to fast singles in the USA might be a bit close for comfort for the Lad in the air race -

In HD on iPlayer the altimeter shows he started at 700' into the tight turn over the lighthouse at about 60* AoB, gained 100' then lost about 200' as his mate warned him. Also pumping the pedals in the buffet :ooh:

And then they said let's get down to 3?

Bit more practice I'd have thought.

[crablab]

I today's episode they mentioned the 'High winged Cessna 125'...new model obviously :ugh:

[Wycombe]

I was concentrating more on the attractive young lady who seemed totally sold on aviation, to be honest ;-) Great to see.

Had to laugh at the production around the Gatwick protesters, moaning about noisy aircraft in approach tracks near the ground, which kept cutting to pictures of airliners trailing along at FL350 or so!

[BEagle]

Protestors? Mad-eyed wimmin and weird beards (or both) looking for any excuse to become a public nuisance....

[Tashengurt]

I wonder if those who complain about night flights ensure that they never purchase anything that may have come in as air freight?

[Meldrew]

I wonder if the aircraft that I fly from my club are "amongst those authorised to fly in London airspace" I must ask next time.

[denachtenmai]

And I wonder how many of those in the field, protesting about Gatwick, fly off on holiday.

Many years ago, when I was a civilian instructor in the ATC, we took the squadron to the Fairford airshow and when we dismounted from the coach we were approached by a quite formidable "lady", part of a large group of protesters who were against the airshow because, she said, it was a noisy intrusion into their lives.
I asked her if she went on holiday and if she flew?
She muttered something quite unladylike and buggered off, hypocrite.

[Wander00]

Well, just watched the last episode on iPlayer (I am in UK not at home) and I have to confess I enjoyed the series. it was not perfect, and it was not designed for aeronautical anoraks, but I do think it will have given Joe Public a better understanding of aviation in the UK. I especially like the coverage of the first solo, took me back 55 years, and reminded me why flying, even in a Ryanair 737 (which I will be in on Sunday) still make me grin, a bit of dust in the air too. Thanks to the producers.

[150commuter]

I sort of enjoyed the series in parts but there was far too much misprepresentaion of private flying along the lines of us being either incompetent plonkers who can't keep out of CAS or high net worth individuals who think that "if you have to ask the cost you can't afford it". I do have to ask the cost and I have friends who spend more on being Rugby spectators than I do on flying . I was also intrigued to hear from someone at London Info that light aircraft aren't maintained like "real" aircraft and just have the equivalent of an MOT. Clearly we've been wasting our money on 50 hour checks, snagging other issues and even our time doing proper A checks.

I had the impression that for the segments on GA the programme's researcher had contacted the RAeS and possibly a couple of London flying schools but hadn't heard of the LAA or the BMAA. A shame as that would have opened up whole worlds beyond those with their own fast aeroplanes and private strips.

Interesting that the controllers were clearly rather alarmed that the air races were taking place at Ascot.

The high spots for me were the mountain rescue flight and the young lady doing her first solo- that did bring back memories from a quarter century ago though fortunately my own instructor didn't give me any prioor warning.
When the aviation enthusiast mentioned the value of his collection I was practically yelling at the screen that for that sort of money he could afford a PPL instead. I know that's not on everyone's wish list and maybe not his but I'm convinced that there are thousands of people who would love to fly but have somehow got the message that flying is a millionaires' sport and most definitely not for the likes of them.

[Trumpet_trousers]

Did anyone else get the sheer irony of the Gatwick protestors taking an aerial photo of their gathering with a drone? Priceless!