British Airways sponsorship

[SpeedBird22]

Hey all,
Just trying to find out if anyone else has applied to the BA pilot training scheme. I figure putting our heads together will give us better chances later on. Good luck...

[Covboy]

I think the idea here is that what do you want to know? What stage are you up to? I have just taken my Final Board awaiting results, is that a bad point? (should I have had the phone call already?) All along I was asking questions, advice etc about what to expect and looking back, not knowing my outcome, is the best info is from what BA give you and tell you. Its no secret, the preliminary stage, the aptitude testing is something you cant really plan for, just do their example questions and brush up on your multiplication, etc without a calculator.

The final interviews are a bit trickier, learn everything about BA, their alliances with other airlines, their schemes for business class, 1st class and economy, their fleet, management personnel, chairmen etc. Be positive, think why you want to be a pilot, what examples have you got to prove it. Dont lie in your application form, they will ask you in detail about the info you gave, this will show if you get flustered in the interview. If you are up to FB stage, have a good nights sleep before, have breakfast that morning cos you aint gonna eat til the last minute. Simple things like this will keep you alert and ready for anything.

Think about what other roles the pilot plays except flying the plane. Management skills, PR, flying economically etc............

I have tried pooling information before here but we all seem to go off on tangents from the original question, which aint such a bad thing. We are all human

I am sure if you have questions and let us know what points you are up to in the BA stages everyone with info will be happy to help.

Good luck matey.

[SpeedBird22]

Very very unfortunately I'm only at the initial stage....it seems like even the aptitude tests are a loooooong way off. So in what order does the procedure take place?? Is it app / aptitude / FB??? Or more??

[Covboy]

It is Application, Aptitude Tests, pre-interview Medical, Final Board.

If you have passed the initial screening and have a date for your aptitude testing day well done, that is the hard bit. They say around 30,000 people apply initially.

Not saying the rest is easy, you just have to do your best, do a lot of reading up on BA, they can ask you anything in the interview.

Forget the interview at the moment and concentrate on your aptitude tests, they send you a pack with a couple of books of examples of the question types. These are helpful and prepare you enough for what to expect. You get them about 2 weeks before the actual tests.

On the day you have a numerical test, verbal reasoning (english comprehension) and a computer based test, (micropat). The day is good, there are about 20 people doing them with you. The computer tests are quite long and there are a lot of different tests to do. e-mail me if you need details, although you cannot really prepare for them.

If you pass these tests, then you get sent a letter asking for you to complete a basic medical with your doctor, wee wee sample and eye tests etc. Watch out, the doctor makes up the price as they go along, I paid 20 quid, but someone on my FB day paid 90 quid.

You send off the medical form and then BA writes asking you to call and arrange a date for your FB.

The time scle for all this for me was.

Application -> Aptitude tests = 2 months
Aptitude tests -> FB = 2 months

It all comes down to time of year, how quick you are to get your medical done etc. It may seem a long time but it doesnt feel like it. It will just be a pain if it all goes wrong at the last post. I still aint heard about how I got on, only been a few days.

Hope I havent waffled on too much, just be yourself and relax, dont let your nerves get to you on the day.

Good Luck

[SpeedBird22]

Thanks for the info and good luck to you too. Anyone else applying?? especially at the initial stage.... Another thing I'm interested in is the sort of people BA are really looking for. I know they say that its not all down to qualifications and stuff but how much difference would a degree make?? I havn't got one, but I've got four good A-Levels.

Cheers

SB22

[theoption]

Hi guys,

A little off-topic, perhaps, but an interesting question none-the-less. What have you guys done while waiting to see the outcome of your sponsorship. From what I can tell, you cannot apply until you've just about finished school so what do you do between leaving school and waiting for a result. I presume you've found jobs elsewhere?

Also, what are the people's opinions on degrees - are they worthwile for getting airline sponsorship, or just extra years to build up a debt.

Finally, what are the maximum hours and ratings BA like you to have if you apply for Sponsorship?

/theoption

[SpeedBird22]

Hellllllo,

While I've been waiting/working on the application I've been at university just as a backup really. I hate it, and would much rather be flying but hey so would most people here. If I was more certain I would get onto the scheme I would leave and perhaps work at an airport but I fairly sceptical (hopeful, nevertheless) that I'll get on.

I'm not sure what the position is on ratings, and degrees but I know that they don't particularly appreciate an applicant having a huge amount of hours under their belt - the whole point being ab initio training. I've got 40 hrs on a Piper Warrior.....hopefully enough to demonstrate a committment to aviation but not to much.

Seeya,

SB22

[This message has been edited by SpeedBird22 (edited 14 January 2001).]

[Lucifer]

theoption: although I do not want to start another degree or not debate for sponsorship, have a look at http://www.ap191.com/backgnd.htm and do a search for the webpages of other courses who have got BA sponsorships: I would seem that it is a lot less likely that you will be accepted without one, not because you are any worse, but it proves you can undertake a structured, difficult course of study and work on your own, often while achieving much else in extra-curricular activities. The one guy on that page who is without a degree looks very active in about everything he could possibly have done at school. University really is not that bad for debt, so long as you are not going out and spending your loan on drink and luxuries in the first month: you do not need to repay the Student Loans Company until you have earned over a certain threshold, and even then only at a rate dependent on your earnings.

In addition, you do not want any additional ratings over a PPL, nor more than 200 hrs maximum. Get a PPL and keep it valid, without building hours, so you don't waste money if you aim for sponsorship.

For the old applications: if you are at uni, why not try your hand at other selection procedures, such as a bank internship, or accountancy: good practice for what interviewers would expect from interviewees, and what to write.

[lone eagle]

Lucifer,
Sorry but I do not agree with you. Just because you have a degree does not mean that you are any more likely to get sponsorship.

Sure I have respect for people who go to uni but just because you have say a degree in physics etc does not mean that you can fly an aeroplane or have any one of the skills that BA are after.

[AffirmBrest]

Here we go again...

LE -

1) Physics = not useful to BA. Agreed. But what about:
2) Maturity,
3) 'life experience',
4) initiative,
5) extra-curricular activities at an organisational/high level,
6) evidence of dedication and ability to work HARD...
7) Demonstrated self-motivation in an academically demanding position
8) I could go on...

..I would suggest that if you believe that the only thing that ANY employer gets from a graduate is the benefit of his/her degree subject, then chances are you have either never been to uni/college or just lack the maturity and breadth of opinion that one would normally expect from someone who has!

However, this doesn't mean that by not having a degree you are necessarily at a disadvantage - higher education doesn't suit everyone and there are plenty of successful pilots who have demonstrated their suitability for the job in other ways than purely academic.

In fact, if you have ONLY a degree and nothing else on your CV, I would suggest that you are THEN at a disadvantage behind someone who has used their time since finishing education more wisely.o

No more comments from me on this - if you want to argue, do a search. The old points still stand.

[willwc22]

I've applied fairly recently. All I've heard so far is an acknowledgement of receipt - I guess I'll start worrying if I've heard nothing more in a month or so.

I've been working as an investment banker since leaving university. I was psychometric tested for days and days to land this job, so if you want some advice on what to expect from a bloke who has done LOADS from a perhaps more commerical perspective than BA's, give me a shout.

I've also got a PPL(A) and Class One medical; Maths, Physics and two other A levels.

[lone eagle]

Affirm Brest,
I am sorry that you find the need to chastise me for only wishing to make the point that a degree is not the be all and end all of securing an airline sponsorship. What did you think that I meant when I said 'or any one of the skills BA are after' I did not think it necessary to state what the majority of people who use this site know.

How dare you presume that I lack maturity and breadth of oppinion of someone who has been to uni. Sorry, how can you make such a statement after reading one post. My academic qualifications stand up for themselves and the last thing I need is someone like you having a go when I was just trying to make a sensible contribution to this thread.

Grow up. :mad: :mad:

[Mister Geezer]

I saddens me yet again when people start throwing their toys out of their pram!

Can I just leave with you with this. Having a degree or not makes no difference IMHO. I feel that it is the other factors that need to gel together to make you the right applicant!

I remember reading about a Milkman who swapped his milkfloat for a SH-360 a number of years ago (he is probably now on 757s or something larger!!) and more recently a Coal Miner is now flying 727s

I feel University is a very small part of the overall equation and we are all different in terms of what we have done etc etc.

At the end of the day I will not care if the guy sitting beside me in the Flight Deck has a Phd or used to be a Milkman. We will all get the same licence and we will all be paid to do the same job!!!

Cheer up guys! :)

MG

------------------
When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded.

[theoption]

MG,

I think you hit the nail on the head, as far as I am concerned. I only posted that question, knowing the degree question has been asked many times, with particular reference to what British Airways are looking for in their potential recruits.

In short, I'm studying for A-Levels (Maths, Further Maths, Physics, English Lit) and am thinking about the future. Obviously, a BA sponsorship is a much envied chance with a great company (from my research and contact with pilots) and I was just thinking whether those three years mean anything to them - particularly in the light on current comments on the military stand-point.

Obviously, it has the advantages that I would be doing something useful while making my application and giving me something else to add to the CV if I don't succeed at that point. On the other hand, I don't want to amount a debt and spend time on studies if it means less attention can be put into applications.

On a final point, does anyone know if there is anyone within BA who would be available to answer questions regarding a potential career? In particular, the degree question and also eyesight (they say 'normal', does that go down to -0.5D both eyes?).

Many thanks for the sensible replies; its a wealth of knowledge here.

/theoption

[tiggerair]

hi
i also have BA assessments mine are at end of feb. I have tried to work out what happens when etc. There is loads of info. on BA website and loads of advice on here from people who have actually been there and done it. If you do want to discuss some things which might aid both of us e-mail me good luck hopefully see you there

[SpeedBird22]

Sooooooooo, it still seems like the degree poser is left unsolved. For my own part, I hope its not as important as Affirmbrest makes out but, anyway, email me in a year and I'll tell you :-)

SB22

[jollygreengiant]

I don't want cause yet another argument but a degree or similar higher education qualification does provide proof of your ability to learn at a high level and pass exams. I am not saying it makes you more intelligent, a better candidate or anything else.

I also think a good degree, although I could be wrong, will get you a place at the apptitude tests - after that it is up to you, degree or no degree.

One final point, a degree can make the difference at final interview stage for any recruitment, something has to.

[This message has been edited by jollygreengiant (edited 15 January 2001).]

[SpeedBird22]

Jolly green giant - I agree with you that obviously the more qualifications under your belt the more likely you are to be given a place over someone else where it comes down to making a choice between the two.

The thing I'm most interested in is whether it is worth me carrying on my degree when I know that all I want to be doing is flying. Obviously I havn't got a full time job to pay for additional flying nor have I got the time, so the temptation to jack it is about on par with a rapsberry trifle with all the trimmings (yum).

Do you think if I walk into British Airways head office and demand to be a pilot they might let me? If I shout loud enough?

Oh. Nevermind then.

I've been at this computer screen too long. G'night.

SpeedBird22

[AffirmBrest]

Lone eagle -

check your e-mail.

AB

Speedbird22 - there's nothing to say that you have to quit your degree BEFORE applying to Airways...as long as you have weighed up ALL the advantages and disadvantages and you decide that a uni/college really isn't for you, by all means quit the day after BA send you the magic letter!

Good luck in whatever you decide

AB

[This message has been edited by AffirmBrest (edited 16 January 2001).]

[jollygreengiant]

I can't see quiting your degree being anything but a problem unless you have got the all important letter from BA. It gives the appearance of a lack of commitment and willingness to work hard when you don't like something.

There again, if you hate your course, don't enjoy the life and/or won't pass then you may as well get out now and get some work experience under your belt.

If you haven't got long left on your course then work hard and get the best you can out of it, it will be useful in the long term.

That's all I'm going to say.

[Mister Geezer]

In courses in the past, there have been people with degrees, people who have packed in their degree, and people with no degree at all.

A pure mix would be a good description!

MG


------------------
...For Radar identification, throw your your jumpseat rider out of the window...

[SpeedBird22]

Okey dokey then you've persuaded me....I'll stay in for now but the day that letter flops through the letter box I'm outta there!!

Thanks for everyones opinions,

SB22

[Lucifer]

The point is that you need the right skills. It appears that graduates are more LIKELY to have these skills, but not guaranteed, just as there may be some very unsuitable graduates, and very capable school leavers. University gives you a better chance of acquiring these skills, so it is not the degree in itself which gives you a better chance, but what you have done with your time.

I have a question for a friend who is applying: how long does it take from applying to being able to go to initial tests at the moment?

[Mister Geezer]

3 months would be a resonable figure.

MG

------------------
...For Radar identification, throw your your jumpseat rider out of the window...

[Supersonic]

Food 4 thaught perhaps? I have got through to aptitude stage twice having only being able to write on my app form that I have a part time job at B@Q!! When I left school in '98 with my A-levels I didn't want to go to uni cos I didn't think it was for me. As it happens I started a degree course last September and guess what...I still don't think its for me! Except that now I can't work so often and hence have far less money resulting in a lower alcohol consumption and general 'doing stuff' ability which all makes me pretty miserable at the moment http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif
So what do I do stick with college which I don't like but get a degree whilst waiting 4 the call or do I go full time in the orange apron and get on the managment trail while I wait for the call???
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif :rolleyes:
Confused yet?? Bloody hell I am!

Any advice greatly appreciated btw!

...you know, things are more like they used to be nowadays...

[SpeedBird22]

Supersonic,

Snap!! It seems like you are in exactly the situation as me. I hate uni but don't have another choice at the moment. I think the answer is that we're gonna have to stick at it, at least until we manage to get sponsored. It might work if we left and say, became flying instructors and follow that route in but the benefits of having a degree are so great its not quite worth it.

In 20 or so years time the competition for jobs will be so hard that a) most applicants for the good jobs will have degrees and b)it will almost be a standard thing to have, like gcse's.

The way I look at is that 3 yrs is a very small percentage of a 40 or so yr flying career. Email me if theres anything else you want to talk about and good luck...

SB22

[Speedbird59]

Hello

I wonder if anyone can help me. I also want to apply for a BA sponsorship but the galling thing is I don't meet their stated minimum criteria. I fell short by one grade at A Level and I don't have a degree.

Not that I am a thick tw@t mind you. Since leaving school at 18 I played professional cricket in the UK and South Africa, and I am a director of a small recruitment consultancy which I established from scratch. Without blowing my own trumpet I think I have first had experience of many of the teamwork/leadership/managerial qualities BA appear to look for.

I am currently in South Africa working towards my PPL this month with the intention of building 150 hours and going to Oxford to do my various ATLP modules. It would be nice to have some bodyelse spend the £30,000+ for you especially when you are not guaranteed a job at the end of it.

Is there anything chance BA would be persuaded to at least consider my application? Having spoken to them on the phone when I was last in the UK answer was in the negative. I then wrote to their HR Department and my original question was ignored and they send me a nice pack of info on IT......I'm still trying to figure out the logic in that one.

Anyway I would be grateful for any comments & advice offered, and for any one unsuccessful in getting a sponsorship think about building some hours in South Africa....its very cheap when you pay in Sterling and its a magnificant place.

[SpeedBird22]

Hey fellow speedbird,

All I can give you is my best guess....I think that if BA have given you a definite no then you should take that as being final. However, depending on how long ago it was that you phoned them its probably worth either just applying and letting them see all the other qualities/experiences you've had, or simply phoning them up again and, quite simply, arguing with them. Its gotta be worth a shot.

If all fails and you still really want to do it, why not do an A-level part time or by distance learning??? It'd be worth it in the end but depends on how badly you want this.

Then theres the option of trying other schemes. Hope I've been some help and good luck.

SB22

[tiggerair]

just a(nother) comment on the whole degree debate. I graduated last year and wasnt a great fan of universty either only wanting to fly. i was fortunate enough however to have been sponsored by the RAF as a pilot for my whole time there so had a wicked time on the UAS and got near on 100 hours free flying. I think that BA probably arent too bothered if you have a degree or not, yes it has its plus points, but you can probably find some of them from other areas of your life. However to start something and quit or give up part way through doesnt illusrate a great deal of determination, moivation and commitment, even if it is to leave and fly for BA. If for one reason or another airlines doent work out you have always got something to fall back on and as one of the speedbirds said what is three years when your 18 when you put in the contex of 40+ years . Your young, enjoy life, try and join the UAS and get lots of flying experience and show your determinaion to fly and just try and focus on what it is all for. Good luck and anyone going for BA assessment end of Feb. see you there

[SpeedBird22]

Tiggerair,

I've gotta agree with you there. It seems like hell at the time but you've just gotta do it. Three or four years isn't really a long time in the grand scheme of things.

The only problem is, when you're slap bang in the middle of those three years it can seem like eternity.

Good luck at your aptitudes...hopefully I'll be there too.

SB22

[damiank78]

I just got to the end of my degree started working and paid my own way. In hindsight there are now guys out there who are younger and instructing / flying for small companies and even got into Qantas with 1500 hrs i'm still plodding along with little experience but alot of useful contacts from uni. I know that you guys are going for BA sponsorship so good luck but remember if you dont get in there are other ways to fly.
PS in my opinion the degree will do nothing for me until I knock on the airlines doors down the track.!

[Supersonic]

I guess it all depends on the individual. I think that on the whole uni is the way to go for most wannabes - it looks good on a CV and ther is no reason why you can't work and or get some good flying experience when you're there. I certainly don't have the cash to splash on hour building and I have much, big in da area respec' for all those wannabes who are willing to spend all their hard earned beer tokens on flying. This takes a lot of hard work and commitment not to mention getting a decent job in the first place!!
Hats off to all then I think!
:) :) :)

[Supersonic7]

On the subject of BA's selection, if you have done the Micropat tests before and have subsequently failed them, do they get you to do them again? Or is it a case of you can't, due to it causing unfair competition?

Incidentally, on the great Uni debate, i'm 18 and have just been rejected from the BA Prelim. I've decided to not go to Uni, as in my view i would rather avoid getting into debt unnecessarily, and would rather get life experience elsewhere. I think a degree counts for a lot, but it's not essential to get into the industry, i'd rather get a job now and start the long road to saving towards self sponsorship, so that i can be ready if it comes to that.

Answers to the above question would be greatly received. We'll all be flying soon.



[This message has been edited by Supersonic7 (edited 18 January 2001).]

[Lucifer]

Supersonic7: I think you are wrong not to go to uni, as there is so much opportunity to be had in doing sport, societies and other stuff beyond your degree with uni. Get into the industry is not the way, as you can do cheap gliding, and UAS at uni, and debt is not really a great issue if you budget. The big debt thing which has been proclaimed by such bodies as the NUS is a myth, as you do not repay until you can afford, and only then at incremental rates. Unless you want to drink every night, you can avoid debt by holiday work easily, while keeping up solid academic commitment with extra work. A first and no debt at high rates is possible, you just have to be committed.

[careerchange]

willwc22

So you don't want to be an investment banker anymore? Neither do I.
It's always nice to find people in the same situation as yourself. I do hope you will make it at BA. But if not you are probably, as an investment banker, able to finance your dream on your own. At least after awhile.

Has anyone any example of a scandinavian being accepted for the sponsorship?