Pilot Trec Smith and Marree man. [Archive]

onetrack

12th Aug 2016, 14:58

The Marree Man will never be re-instated, for the simple reasons that even the smallest amount of environmental damage to flora in semi-desert country is no longer tolerated, nor acceptable. For the same reason the Readymix logo on the Nullarbor will never be re-instated.

For many decades, utilising tracked machines in exploration or mining-lease gridding work has been banned in South Australia, due to the express reason that it is deemed too damaging to the environment. Only wheeled machines are allowed to be used, and even their use is heavily monitored and restricted.

As an agricultural and mining earthmoving contractor in a previous life, I can assure you the mid-1980's saw a massive "green" revolt over excessive agricultural land-clearing, excessive mining and exploration flora damage, and uncontrolled works involving any destruction of native flora.

Extensive salt encroachment on cleared farmland in W.A., plus the realisation that extensive varieties of both native flora and native fauna were being wiped out at an alarming rate - with many species possibly not even being recorded before they were made extinct, led to the upswelling of the "Green" grassroots and political movement, which now has entrenched political power and a highly vocal front.

This movement is stridently vociferous whenever it sees a blade of grass being damaged. The continuing clearing of native vegetation for farmland in QLD is their major target at present. I fully expect them to chain themselves to the bulldozers shortly.

Somewhere along the way, there is a balance between unnecessary and excessive clearing, and the stopping of any form of development.

However, the creation of the Marree Man was highly illegal in the first place, and any attempt to recreate it, will be met with strident Green opposition, and legislative punishment as well.

The equipment needed to create it would not have needed to be anything more than a moderate-size bulldozer, preferably fitted with an angling blade - or even just a motor grader, if the operator was skilled enough.

Dick Smith

12th Aug 2016, 16:20

onetrack

13th Aug 2016, 00:45

Dick, that's about the size of it. Everything is protected and untouchable, until a new massive highway plan, major subdivision, rail line, or mining expansion is produced - then it's O.K. to wipe out a million hectares of pristine vegetation or fine stands of trees.

Not sure about the other states, but here on the left coast, you can be fined serious amounts for cutting down any trees on your own property. You need extensive planning permission and approvals to carry out any vegetation removal, anywhere.

It's gone from one extreme to the other. In the 1960's we had a state development minister who bragged about "clearing a million acres a year" for farm development. I dare not even mention in casual conversation today that I was part of that - one immediately becomes a social pariah, treated as if you just admitted you were a pedo.

We dragged a chain between dozers, clearing up to 1000 acres a day. Yes, that's right, 1000 acres (247Ha) a day of native vegetation, often huge, magnificent trees, was totally flattened.
It's still happening in QLD today and it enrages the conservationists and greenies to screaming outrage.
You've seen the bitterness that land clearing fights provokes, with the murder of the land protection officer in NSW by the angry old farmer.

I do personally believe that clearing restrictions and controls are very important. In the 1960's it was just open slather, and even then, I didn't agree with quite a few of the clearing requests put to me by farmers - such as leaving nothing for shade or shelter - but I was just doing a job and operating under their instructions.
Many paid for their bad decisions later, with salt encroachment on cleared land, and stock deaths during cold snaps.

The semi-desert country such as Marree deserves special protection, because it's an environment where vegetation is thin, slow to grow, slow to recover from damage, and easily wiped out.
Very few people understand that even just sweeping the fallen leaves and bark from underneath many semi-desert trees will kill them. They rely on that fallen bark and leaves to preserve the tiny amounts of moisture that gathers there, that they rely on to survive.

Then we have the substantially increasing numbers of four-wheel-drivers who "need to go bush". They all need a massive campfire, so the vegetation suffers as the trees are damaged to get firewood.
These people will carry on about the desertification of 3rd world countries as the natives kill every tree to get firewood - and they fail to understand they are doing the same to Australia!
We need a lot more education amongst the general public as to just how fragile our native flora is, in low-rainfall areas.

Stanwell

13th Aug 2016, 02:49

Gee, onetrack...
And there was me thinking you were just a pretty face.
If people don't take notice of your post above, then, well...

Having said that, and, like yourself, having had a bit to do with with that kind of stuff out that way, I feel sure
that the Marree Man could, (and should), be re-instated with a minimum of damage to the environment.
Just my ever-so-humble opinion, of course.
.

PLovett

13th Aug 2016, 03:14

For an enlightening look at Australian flora and the damage that is been done in the name of conservation may I recommend Bill Gammage's book, "The Biggest Estate on Earth". Once read and understood you can begin to understand why the staff and students at the University of Tasmania Botany Department ganged together to stop Gammage from delivering a talk on Aboriginal fire management. The book questions one of the fundamental premises of Australian conservation; that natural features have natural causes.

Back on topic, I doubt that the carving of Marree Man did much to upset the flora and fauna when it was created and I doubt it would do much again if it was repeated. Having also driven down through that region it could certainly do with a lift and if the local Aboriginal people are supporting the idea then why not?

onetrack

13th Aug 2016, 11:02

PLovett, I think the current problem (now that the land the Marree Man is on, has been registered as Aboriginal Land - whereas, when the MM was created, it would have been "unallocated Crown Land") - is that the Aborigines who now own that parcel of land (Aboriginal Lands are the equivalent of Freehold Title, but they can never be sold) are divided on the benefit of the MM "construction" (for want of a better word) to them.

Firstly, the MM was created without any reference to them. As far as I know, no-one has carried out any research or logged any Aboriginal Sacred Sites in the area covered by MM.

You can laugh or sneer at Aboriginal Sacred Site claims, but they are a recognised part of our development, legal, and claims systems today, and they have to be considered when any development work is undertaken.

The Aborigines would want to know how they could benefit from a giant marking that has effectively defaced their land, according to them.
They can fence off Aboriginal lands that possess sought-after attractive features (i.e., Uluru) for ground visitors/tourists - and charge entry fees to provide them with income - but they would say they have no way of extracting income from aerial viewing of what they would consider to be, a "white mans mark" on their land.

From my research, it appears a very deep and wide cut was made in the soil, a depth varying from 20-35cms, according to on-site reports - and up to 40 metres wide.
A cut that deep creates erosion problems, and concentrated runoff during heavy rain events, in places where major runoff would not have previously occurred.

All development and exploration work today comes with strict orders with regard to pollution, runoff control, re-vegetation of disturbed areas, and intensive protection of native flora and fauna.

For the MM to be re-cut - firstly, Aboriginal owner approval would be needed, sacred sites identified, and plans then submitted to the governing land protection authorities, showing how all of the previously-mentioned items would be addressed to meet all the current legislative requirements.
The plan for the re-cutting of the MM would have to show a major economic/social/financial benefit, to more than one party, as part of the submission.

The days of just roaring out there and ripping into substantial land-altering projects, with no reference to anyone, are long gone.
I strongly suspect the bloke who most likely carried out the MM project (Bardius Goldberg), was of the "old-school", "bugger-the-laws" type - but even in 1998, he ensured the ownership of his "workmanship" was shrouded in mystery, to ensure he wouldn't face likely retribution, on more than one level.

Dick Smith

13th Aug 2016, 22:17

Marree Man appears to have been formed by a tractor towing a standard farm scarifer.

The grooves were only inches deep and the fact that it has now nearly disappeared after 16 years shows that this type of construction does not have long term effects.

There have been very heavy rainfalls and no measurable erosion.

At one stage the local landowners were interested in getting a a strip graded in close to the Oodnadatta Track and the planehenge sculpture park so they could take tourists to visit the site for a reasonable fee.

Now that would be a great income creating idea so it will probably be stopped by the change resistors.

Stationair8

13th Aug 2016, 22:37

In these PC time's that we live in can we refer to him as a man?

Shouldn't it be Marree person or Marree GLBTI?

PLovett

13th Aug 2016, 22:45

onetrack I was not sneering at the Aboriginal title or sacred sites legislation and any support I would give to Marree Man reinstatement is dependent on their support for it. I am sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Stationair8 I think it qualified as male given the appendage that it had.

Stanwell

13th Aug 2016, 23:57

Dick,
Only inches deep?
I'd never looked at it from ground-level.
It must have been one cluey operator who'd worked out that he could pull a stunt of that magnitude.

PLovett,
He doesn't appear to be excited, so I think it'll be PC cool.

Desert Flower

14th Aug 2016, 02:22

Hold on. The local mine has received permission to upgrade their 29k long bore pipe with a huge trench going past the Marree Man site.

The local Aborigional land owners have told me they would like to see it re instated to bring tourists and jobs to the area.

I like the idea as it would assist the GA industry.

Then again you are probably correct. One law for wealthy mining companies while the first Australians have no say!
Dick, given the way things are with the different "tribes" up there one lot would tell you they want to see it reinstated while the other lot will tell you they don't.
Reinstating it wouldn't bring any more tourists to the area than what there are now. I can remember back to when it was first discovered, it was just an extra thing to see when people were going up to have look at the lake. Apart from that no-one was even remotely interested in it. It wouldn't bring any more jobs either, nor would it assist the GA industry.

DF.

onetrack

14th Aug 2016, 03:02

The Marree Man is nothing more than the equivalent of a crop circle on Aboriginal Lands.

The attitude of the originators of these works is identical - produce a supposedly-awe-inspiring etching visible from the air, and create a huge mystery over the origin of the work.

However, their efforts basically involve the defacing and destruction of other peoples property and flora or crops, without any reference to, or approval from, the land/crop owners.

There's nothing clever or smart or ingenious about it - unlike the ancient civilisation etchings visible from the air.
In todays world of GPS-guided machines, and a myriad of powered mechanical devices, anyone can carry out these works with little effort.

It's essentially graffiti on a large scale, and it has little redeeming value, either in artistic merit, or value to the landowners. There must be a multitude of other methods that help the Aboriginals to become more self-sufficient, and to assist the aviation fraternity and industry, rather than brightening up some unwanted large-scale graffiti.

spinex

14th Aug 2016, 06:50

Gawd, nothing gets quite so wound up as a bunch of whitefellas, debating what can, should, probably did (etc.) happen on Aboriginal land.:hmm:

A simple bloke like me is still trying to work out why an indelible stain on the countryside, this bringer of erosion and pestilence, has virtually disappeared in less than 20 years, so I won't get into that debate.

Stanwell

14th Aug 2016, 07:24

Probably better that you don't get into "that debate", spinex.
On aviation matters, your comments are often quite good.
Know something about environmental matters, do you?
Your comment about "erosion and pestilence" would suggest otherwise.

Having chatted with a couple of my aboriginal friends, the consensus seems to be that it was quite good and its restoration would be welcomed.
But, what would I know?
Being just an ignorant whitefella, perhaps I should just stick to mowing my front lawn on Saturday afternoons.

Desert Flower

14th Aug 2016, 12:39

Having chatted with a couple of my aboriginal friends, the consensus seems to be that it was quite good and its restoration would be welcomed.

Stanwell, were they Marree & surrounding areas locals though, or from elsewhere?

DF.

spinex

14th Aug 2016, 23:53

Stanwell, I suspect we are suffering from the not unusual interwebs phenomenon of misunderstanding each other's point - at least I hope so, I'd be mildly miffed if I thought you were trying to shut me down because I differed from your perspective. In my case, I have a bad habit of transmitting with my tongue firmly lodged in cheek, which occasionally inhibits reception apparently. As to environmental matters, I claim no particular expertise, but my day job does require me to know a little about a lot and be able to assimilate expert opinion from others. I have had some involvement in environmental rehabilitation out in that sort of countryside and from my vaguely lay perspective was questioning the assertions of lasting harm being caused, given that the scars had essentially disappeared in 18 odd years.

Stanwell

15th Aug 2016, 00:42

DF,
No, one from western NSW and the other from SW Qld.
Elders, though.
Nonetheless, I somehow think their opinions might carry a little more weight than that of a mere whitey.

spinex,
Yes, thanks - and my apologies.
I still do think that proper consideration should be given to the restoration of that feature, though.
The reaction to that image from the 'Aboriginal Nation', (as opposed to a collection of warring tribes), was, I got the impression, quite positive.
I'm anticipating that somebody's now going to charge in with an accusation that the Marree Man is nothing more than a depiction of a 'noble savage'.
I'll just get back to mowing my lawn. :ok:
.

Desert Flower

15th Aug 2016, 13:35

DF,
No, one from western NSW and the other from SW Qld.
Elders, though.
Nonetheless, I somehow think their opinions might carry a little more weight than that of a mere whitey.

If they were from a totally different area I don't think they're qualified to give their opinion - elders or not. I know what the local opinions are & as I said before - one mob are for it & the other against.

DF.

kingRB

19th Aug 2016, 05:12

I think there's enough of a boost to aviation & other fields in the area right now with the water in Lake Eyre. And yes there has been talk of going over it again, but it's not going to happen.

DF.Well apparently your call on that was wrong.

Flew over it this morning, vehicles on the ground around it and the entire Man has already been graded once, and looks like the deeper cuts bringing back the white contrast underneath have already commenced around his right arm.

Few more inquiries I made today revealed one of the local station owners has been hired to do the grading.

I'll try and post a few pics in the next few days as the work develops.

Desert Flower

19th Aug 2016, 07:32

Few more inquiries I made today revealed one of the local station owners has been hired to do the grading.

Well I hope for his sake that it doesn't come back to bite him on the ass!

DF.

Ultralights

19th Aug 2016, 10:01

he Marree Man will never be re-instated, for the simple reasons that even the smallest amount of environmental damage to flora in semi-desert country is no longer tolerated, nor acceptable. For the same reason the Readymix logo on the Nullarbor will never be re-instated.

Well, He is BACK!

Photo taken today.
image via Marree Hotel FB.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/13939524_1177424685612616_2437881685353767907_n.jpg?oh=8a996 fd4e3499c23c134088565b8e09c&oe=5817A979&__gda__=1482340416_8754b19f1cb51c36cd9c22719a12dfe6

Lead Balloon

19th Aug 2016, 10:28

So Dick asks an ostensibly innocuous 'where are they now' question just over a week ago, and magically....

Just a coincidence, no doubt.

Dick Smith

19th Aug 2016, 22:07

How did the mining company get approval to replace the huge bore pipe line if no one not allowed to disturb vegetation thes days?

compressor stall

20th Aug 2016, 00:01

Dick: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And is that actually fresh, or is it still the remnants of the original at an oblique angle and the vegetation at a time of year that makes it stand out?

And FWIW, you can still see the Readymix sign, if you know where to look. I saw it a few months back from the FD from FL380.

Ultralights

20th Aug 2016, 00:33

its fresh... and even if its aboriginal land, money still talks..

just look at the bushland around Menai in Sydney, National parks and the local aboriginal community were fighting for ownership of it, of course, the original owners got their land back, and next week, bulldozers were clearing away a new sub division..

Allan L

20th Aug 2016, 00:37

Story now on the ABC news website

Marree Man restored as outback tourist attraction in far north SA - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-20/marree-man-restored-as-outback-tourist-attraction/7769006)

onetrack

20th Aug 2016, 01:17

How did the mining company get approval to replace the huge bore pipe line if no one not allowed to disturb vegetation thes days?Dick, the situation is not that "no-one is allowed to disturb vegetation nowadays" - it's just that uncontrolled, unsupervised, and unauthorised vegetation destruction is not allowed nowadays.

As in every part of our general lives today, we are obliged to follow laws, regulations and rules that ensure people do not indulge in actions that seriously affect others safety, destroy the environment, seriously pollute, or generally create serious upset and mayhem that causes disruption to our civilised society.

We are also bound by international agreements to protect our natural environment and flora and fauna, so that it is not destroyed or even made extinct by careless, uncontrolled actions.

There are many laws in Australia that completely govern the movement or alteration of the soil and earth without official authority.

As I can no more fly my little aircraft into Sydney Kingsford Smith airport without reference to anyone, thus creating mayhem - then similarly, I can no more go out into the countryside with my earthmoving equipment, and dig holes and displace soil and vegetation, without official approvals in place - without incurring the wrath of some powerful authorities, and the subsequent serious monetary and possibly freedom-restricting penalties.

The over-riding authority controlling the alteration of the landscape in Australia is the EPA. There are levels of landscape alteration that need EPA approval. You need to check with the EPA if what you plan requires an EPA permit.

The next level of authority is the Mining & Petroleum Depts or agencies of each State. These people have serious control of landscape alteration within the State. You may not dig a hole or knock down a tree in your search for minerals or oil and gas, without applying to them for approval. You have to submit plans for what you intend to do, meet the applicable laws and regulations - and once you have written M&P Dept approval - which often contains a list of restrictions on what you plan to do - you can then go ahead with digging holes and knocking down trees - within the strict limits of the Dept instructions.

The third layer of landscape control is with the relevant State Parks and Wildlife Depts. These Depts have strict and intensive control over vast areas of Australia. If you plan to do any landscape alteration in areas under P&W control, you need authorisation and approval.

The fourth layer of control - and this is for Aboriginal Lands - is with the State Govts Aboriginal Depts, Aboriginal Land Councils, and Aboriginal Land Trusts, who are administering the Aboriginal Lands.

All these bodies are instituted and operated under specific Acts of Australian Law. Landscape alterations and changes, developments, mining approvals, and roads within Aboriginal Lands are supervised and controlled by these Depts and Councils, and any plans for land alterations or changes, or plans for intensive development, within the Aboriginal Lands under the respective Depts and Councils control, must be presented to those Depts and Councils - whereby they are assessed, the Aboriginal Land owners consulted and their approval sought - and then, after the agreement of the land owners has been acquired, and all other law requirements met, then the alteration or development is approved.

There are sizeable numbers of mining, and oil and gas companies, who have agreements in place with Aboriginal Land Councils and Trusts to carry out authorised mining and oil and gas activities on Aboriginal Lands.

These people submit their proposed plans to the Councils and Trusts and the ensuing agreement is thrashed out - taking into account, Aboriginal tribal agreement and sensitivities, Aboriginal sacred grounds, environmental protection laws, other specific laws relating to Mining and Petroleum Acts - and there is always a huge list of requirements to be met, if development approval is given.

A mining company proposing a pipeline will have to submit a huge development proposal that meets all the legislative requirements, and it has to be approved by various other State Depts, as well as the Aboriginal Lands Councils or Trusts.
The pipeline proposal will have to address how it will minimise flora and fauna destruction, minimise general environmental destruction, control runoff and pollution, and address revegetation issues during the construction and completion phases.
Failure to address or control any of the preceding issues, results in serious penalties of the monetary or freedom-restricting kind.

In reality, there isn't much difference to getting approval to carve a huge etching in the earth around Marree, than there is in, say, you getting approval to erect some monstrous outlandish development on your suburban property.

You still need to submit plans, and get approval from the various controlling authorities and departments, and meet all the relevant laws that cover planning, environmental conditions, and probably a dozen other conditions imposed by governing authorities - that have all been developed over many centuries, to ensure the smooth operation of our highly-developed society.

I have a feeling of foreboding that the people who re-instated the Marree Man without reference to any controlling authority will now be facing some serious penalties for environmental destruction.
In simple terms, I'd say the airborne ordure is about to hit a set of spinning propeller-like devices. :(

Ultralights

20th Aug 2016, 01:50

As I can no more fly my little aircraft into Sydney Kingsford Smith airport without reference to anyone,
actually, you can, seen it done, once inside their airspace, you get a clearance.. sadly the D***head that does it, does it regularly, and not just at YSSY. does it with Mil airspace as well.

onetrack

20th Aug 2016, 03:37

It seems fairly obvious that Phil Turner has been on a "mission" to restore the Marree Man - and thereby, hopefully restore the tourist income on which he so obviously depends. To that end, he's even convinced one journalist he's on the right track.

Opinion - Rex Jory - Mangling the Marree Man (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/rex-jory-mangling-the-marree-man/story-fni6unxq-1226679265532)

The claim that the re-instating of the Marree Man will increase tourism to Northern S.A. by 8% and add tourism value by $22M seems a little optimistic, to say the least. :rolleyes:

I understand that Phil Turner is seriously intent on driving anything that might add some tourist attractiveness to an area that many people still see as pretty barren and remote - which is fully understandable, seeing as he has a vested interest in doing so.

However, the re-instating of the Marree Man without any official authority is a bold move by Phil Turner, and one which I fear will cost him accordingly.

In essence, the issues at the heart of the etching are;

1. The original etching work was an illegal act, anyway. It contravened many laws, including environmental laws and the Aboriginal Heritage Act.
The fact that the original etching was done anonymously, and with the continued aim of anonymity, shows the original constructor was aware of the highly illegal nature of his construction, and the need to avoid identification and possible penalties.

2. Re-instating the etching without approval or official authorisation, has only perpetuated the original problem.

3. I believe the original etching constructor and possibly Phil Turner as well, has taken advantage of the divisiness amongst the multiple local tribes, who are at loggerheads over control of the area around Lake Eyre - and at loggerheads of how to interpret and apply Aboriginal beliefs and religious restrictions to any proposed development - to over-ride any required official authorisation - both from the Aboriginals themselves, and from the relevant Govt Depts, to just "take matters into his own hands", and carry out the landscape work, without reference to any of the relevant groups.

The Aboriginal Heritage Act is a far-reaching piece of legislation that places the onus on any person wishing to alter the landscape in Australia, where Aboriginal title has been determined to still exist - to carry out research into the location of, and possible serious degradation or damage to, Aboriginal sacred sites - and to log the location of those sites, interpret their level of importance, and to provide written plans on how those sites will be protected under the provisions of the Aboriginal Heritage Act.

The simple fact that no development plan was ever submitted, and no research into Aboriginal Heritage sites was ever carried out - in both the construction of the original etching, and in the re-instating of the etching, is something that has to be addressed - and I strongly suspect Phil Turner will be having to address this failure in front of a magistrate, in the not-too-far-distant future.

Desert Flower

20th Aug 2016, 05:40

How did the mining company get approval to replace the huge bore pipe line if no one not allowed to disturb vegetation thes days?

Dick, what mining company are you referring to?

DF.

Desert Flower

20th Aug 2016, 05:44

I have a feeling of foreboding that the people who re-instated the Marree Man without reference to any controlling authority will now be facing some serious penalties for environmental destruction.
In simple terms, I'd say the airborne ordure is about to hit a set of spinning propeller-like devices.

Exactly, & that is why I said I hope it doesn't come back to bite someone on the ass.

DF.

P.S. Where are the great unwashed that protested at YOLD a few weeks ago when you need them? ;)

Desert Flower

20th Aug 2016, 05:47

It seems fairly obvious that Phil Turner has been on a "mission" to restore the Marree Man - and thereby, hopefully restore the tourist income on which he so obviously depends.

Been told that it was Phil & a certain other publican from YWMC that put up the cash.

DF.

PLovett

20th Aug 2016, 06:20

Been told that it was Phil & a certain other publican from YWMC that put up the cash.

Why does that not surprise me. :rolleyes:

Stanwell

20th Aug 2016, 06:40

I trust they threw in a couple of slabs of Coopers.

TWT

20th Aug 2016, 10:36

From the Adelaide 'Advertiser' :

Marree Hotel owners Phil and Maz Turner and William Creek Hotel owner Trevor Wright joined forces, and funds, to breathe new life into the Marree Man.

Mr Turner said the restoration was done with the blessing of the Arabana Aboriginal Corporation.
“We decided to do something about it, so the Marree Man is back,” Mr Turner said.
“We didn’t really get any (government) permission — we just did it — but there were a lot of people aware of it.”

Desert Flower

20th Aug 2016, 11:10

Mr Turner said the restoration was done with the blessing of the Arabana Aboriginal Corporation.

Hmmm, what about the Dieri aboriginal corporation - who are the other "tribe" in that area?

“We didn’t really get any (government) permission — we just did it — but there were a lot of people aware of it.”

Just shows his arrogance. I listened to the interview he did with the ABC & he said restoring it has brought back the myth & mystery surrounding it. What an idiot - there's no myth or mystery now because everyone know who done it! :ugh:

DF.

gerry111

20th Aug 2016, 12:10

Oh come on, DF!

The short term environmental destruction caused is so minimal and has no comparison to the massive land clearing that continues particularly in Qld. Surely it may help tourism to S.A. as this is now news around the world? With the jobless figure there, anything must help..

If the publicans of both the Marree and William Creek Hotels end up in gaol over this, then I promise to visit them there with gifts. :D

onetrack

20th Aug 2016, 12:39

The short term environmental destruction caused is so minimal and has no comparison to the massive land clearing that continues particularly in Qld.The simple fact remains, the land clearing in QLD - some of which, is undesirable for the long-term - is currently, completely legal.

Protestors against the clearing in QLD are seeking to have the QLD clearing laws changed, and stricter limits placed on the clearing.

The difference is - the re-instating of the Marree Man is illegal, and the original etching was illegal.
The basic problem is, that no-one with any standing in the community has carried out a verifiable, properly researched, cost-benefit study on the etching.

All proposed developments and land-use alterations are subject to cost-benefit studies - and then those studies are scrutinised to pick the holes in them, and to see if the community as a whole, benefits.

If the benefit of the proposed development/land-use change is limited to just a few people, and the rest of the community ends up picking up the tab for the major cost of supporting the development (or repairing the damage caused), then the development/land-use change is scrubbed.

What a lot of people are forgetting here is that mining companies are obliged (as in the case of the authorised pipeline), to put up environmental bonds - sometimes running into millions of dollars.

If the company then goes bankrupt, or discontinues, or ceases its mining operations - the environmental bond money is then taken by the likes of the EPA, and the money is then used to rehabilitate any damage to the area utilised by the company for their operation.

In this manner, no burden for environmental rehabilitation, or the repair of environmental damage, is placed on the rest of the nations long-suffering taxpayers.

These two publicans, if found guilty of environmental destruction and violation of other important laws, may find they are not only facing heavy fines - they may find they will be ordered to rehabilitate the area to the satisfaction of the EPA and the Aboriginal landowners - at their cost.

My Stepdaughter is involved in overseeing obedience to environmental laws by a sizeable oil and gas company (for whom she works) at Moomba.
She tells me that even the slightest amount of environmental damage by the oil and gas company - such as even the tiniest oil spill - will incur a major investigation by the EPA, and bring great wrath and draconian penalties upon the company. These people make CASA look positively benevolent.

Desert Flower

20th Aug 2016, 13:06

If the publicans of both the Marree and William Creek Hotels end up in gaol over this, then I promise to visit them there with gifts.

Peanuts? ;)

DF.

Two_dogs

20th Aug 2016, 13:44

Too late...
Marree Man restored as outback tourist attraction in far north SA - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-20/marree-man-restored-as-outback-tourist-attraction/7769006)

Desert Flower

20th Aug 2016, 13:51

Too late...
Marree Man restored as outback tourist attraction in far north SA - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I really don't think it's going to attract any more tourism than what is already going on up there. I can remember back to when the original one was first discovered - people only went to have a look at it because it was on the way up to look at the lake. I used to have the co-ords written on the front of the Avgas bowser! ;)

DF.

gerry111

20th Aug 2016, 14:04

onetrack wrote:

"What a lot of people are forgetting here is that mining companies are obliged (as in the case of the authorised pipeline), to put up environmental bonds - sometimes running into millions of dollars."

Myself and friends very recently flew over the massive (now closed) coal mine near Leigh Creek. I wonder what rehabilitation will be carried out there? Will the mining company fill it in so that it looks as it originally was?

The naughtiness of the publicans re-gouging the Marree Man, by comparison, simply pales into insignificance. :D

Desert Flower

20th Aug 2016, 14:20

I wonder what rehabilitation will be carried out there? Will the mining company fill it in so that it looks as it originally was?

Gerry, it is being rehabilitated but to what extent I don't know. I doubt if it will ever look like it did originally. Also, the retention dam wall was supposed to be breached upon the mine closure letting the water into the pit - can you imagine what that would have done? Even now with a north wind we still cop sulphur fumes.

DF.

onetrack

20th Aug 2016, 14:34

gerry111 - You're comparing apples with oranges. Leigh Creek has been a coalmine for over 100 years. The short-sighted mining techniques of even 50 years ago, are what has led to huge waste dumps and large holes.
In recent years, the waste rock has been dumped back into mined-out areas, to reduce environmental impact.

The financial benefit from the Leigh Creek coal production over the last 100 years has run into the hundreds of billions of dollars - in wages paid, machinery purchased, taxes paid, cheap power generated.
In addition, monies have been hypothecated from huge mining royalties, to go towards rehabilitation of the open pits.

I don't know how you can compare the two events. One operation has been fully approved and 100% legal since its inception - the other operation has been totally unapproved, and 100% illegal since its inception.

Ultralights

21st Aug 2016, 10:34

should have done it, and lept their mouths shut, to perpepuate the mystery, how did it get there? who did it and how? its all part of the story people will go out there to try and find out, but admitting to redoing marree man ruins the mystery.

Lead Balloon

21st Aug 2016, 10:39

But we have no first-hand evidence of who committed either atrocity...

Stanwell

21st Aug 2016, 11:19

"Atrocity"
Love that word, LB. Thank you.
In the real scheme of things, well...

gerry111

21st Aug 2016, 11:38

Stanwell,

I've known a particular GA pilot friend for a long time. I strongly suspect he / she may indeed be 'Lead Balloon'? I'm probably wrong with the identity but that person certainly understands good humour.. :)

Lead Balloon

21st Aug 2016, 11:47

I think that Stanwell may be making the observation, with which I completely agree, that there are things worth worrying about in this veil of tears.

The negative environmental and societal consequences of the Marree Man aren't among them.

onetrack

21st Aug 2016, 15:02

Well, we'll see what those publicans have to say when they're confronted with satellite imagery by the DEWNR and NVC, showing unauthorised native vegetation destruction - and the agents of these two Depts ask, "where is their consent for approval to clear native vegetation?"

Environment S.A. - native vegetation (http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/managing-natural-resources/native-vegetation)

The penalty for clearing native vegetation in S.A. without approval is a minimum fine of $100,000. If they end up fighting charges in the courts, the lawyers will be soaking up many tens of thousands as well.
There'd better be some money in that tourism game.

Environment S.A. - managing natural resources (http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/managing-natural-resources/native-vegetation/maps-assessment-monitoring)

Environment S.A. - change detection program (http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/managing-natural-resources/native-vegetation/clearing-offsetting/change-detection-program)

S.A. - NATIVE VEGETATION ACT 1991 (https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/A/NATIVE%20VEGETATION%20ACT%201991.aspx)

Lead Balloon

21st Aug 2016, 21:25

I suspect their response will be: "Where is your evidence to prove that we did it?"

Desert Flower

21st Aug 2016, 23:25

I suspect their response will be: "Where is your evidence to prove that we did it?"
Shouldn't be too hard to do, considering they've admitted to it in the papers, over the radio, & on Facebook!

DF.

Lead Balloon

22nd Aug 2016, 00:00

We shall see...

Ultralights

22nd Aug 2016, 07:23

atrocity you say? never mind the mining at Leigh creek..

TWT

22nd Aug 2016, 09:13

Someone can't stop talking :

Giant Marree Man artwork in South Australia makes a comeback in boost for tourism - 9news.com.au (http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/08/20/08/57/marree-man-makes-a-comeback)

Stanwell

22nd Aug 2016, 09:22

Leigh Creek?
The coal was sh1t anyway.
Just ask the former Commonwealth Railways, SAR and anybody who lived within coo-ee of the Port Augusta power station.
But it was all South Australia had.

As for "Aboriginal Lands" - please don't make me laugh.
It had been 'legally determined' that whitey will take possession of the choice bits and you blackfellas can "own" the rest, depending upon....
Are we clear on that?
.

gerry111

22nd Aug 2016, 10:49

TWT, I can't get your link to work.

Hempy

22nd Aug 2016, 10:51

Shouldn't be too hard to do, considering they've admitted to it in the papers, over the radio, & on Facebook!

"I know that's what we said Guv, but we were simply trying to get the region into the headlines to Make South Australia Great Again. To be honest, we don't really know who was responsible, although we thank them for their actions.

I acknowledge that we have fabricated our involvement, with the understanding that our actions in doing so were not illegal but simply trying to create interest in our region. We welcome any physical evidence that proves your accusations, as we know that you have none".

Lead Balloon

22nd Aug 2016, 10:55

Next you'll be telling us that if I say: "I'm Brian", I'm Brian! :ok:

Hempy

22nd Aug 2016, 11:00

You're not the Messiah, you're a very naughty boy!

TWT

22nd Aug 2016, 11:03

gerry,still working fine for me.Try 9news.com.au and take it from there.An excerpt :

"It will be there forever not because of the work we've done but because we've created wind grooves".
"The graded wind rows trap water ... so over time Marree Man is going to turn green."
Mr Turner said the re-emergence of the icon would be a significant boost for year-round tourism in a region largely reliant on seasonal attractions such as Lake Eyre when it filled.
It's emergence attracted a huge boost of visitors who were keen to spot the historic piece.He expected a 10 per cent increase in overnight stays to inject millions into the far north

Lead Balloon

22nd Aug 2016, 11:06

So it resolves to this: Can it be proved beyond reasonable doubt that Mssrs Turner and Wright have been very naughty boys, rather than mere Messiahs?

Hempy

22nd Aug 2016, 11:36

Only if their fathers were Romans

What have the Romans ever done for us?

Well, there's roads.

And sanitation.

Marree Man.

Public health.

The aqueducts.

Medicine.

All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, the Marree Man, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

TWT

22nd Aug 2016, 11:43

The Adelaide Advertiser has a story quoting Dick who says he'll build an airstrip there.

ENTREPRENEUR Dick Smith has thrown his support behind the state’s Far North, pledging to pay for the construction of a new airstrip near the Marree Man to draw more visitors to the Outback.

Mr Smith arrived in Marree on Sunday to see the resurrected Marree Man and speak to locals and the Arabana Aboriginal Corporation about his plan to create an airstrip nearby to boost tourism numbers.
As revealed in (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/return-of-the-mysterious-giant-marree-man-geoglyph-in-the-desert-sands/news-story/57ba08da5917ec2057f5b2a163e074a0)The Advertiser (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/return-of-the-mysterious-giant-marree-man-geoglyph-in-the-desert-sands/news-story/57ba08da5917ec2057f5b2a163e074a0) on Saturday (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/return-of-the-mysterious-giant-marree-man-geoglyph-in-the-desert-sands/news-story/57ba08da5917ec2057f5b2a163e074a0), Marree Hotel owners Phil and Maz Turner and William Creek Hotel owner Trevor Wright re-etched the fading Marree Man on the southeastern edge of Lake Eyre last week.
The giant figure of an Aboriginal man — the second biggest geoglyph recorded at 4.2km tall and with a circumference of 28km — had all but disappeared as rain, wind and growth took its toll in the years since it was discovered in 1998.
Mr Smith said he had always been fascinated by the Marree Man — the identity of its original creator or how and why they did it remains a mystery.
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/9509580d4a2e07554317f3e70db3cb80?width=316
Dick Smith has thrown his support behind the Marree Man and South Australia’s Far North.
He said he wanted to do his bit to help attract more people to the Far North to see the famous figure as well as other Outback attractions including Mutonia Sculpture Park.
“People can land (at the airstrip) and be taken ... to the site,” he said.
“It would create some employment.”
Mr Smith originally planned to pay up to $100,000 to restore the Marree Man and create an airstrip in the area, however now that the etching has been resurrected, his focus is on the airstrip.
“I just can’t believe that we’ve got so many people living on the coast and they’ve never been to the Outback,” he said.
“To me, this is one of the most beautiful places.”
Mr Smith said the airstrip would allow charter planes to land near the Marree Man and from there visitors could either be driven around the site or flown over the top of it to get a bird’s eye view.
He said an exact location for the proposed airstrip was yet to be determined.
Mr Smith was joined on his two day trip to the Far North by filmmaker Damon Smith, who was planning to shoot a documentary on the Marree Man.
Phil Turner, who hosted the duo at his hotel during his visit, said Mr Smith’s announcement was great news for the region.
“I think that’s wonderful,” he said.
“This will be a very important development that will attract people to the Far North.”
Arabana Aboriginal Corporation chairman Aaron Stuart said the organisation supported the proposal.
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/5bf321d24726e6002134c070376cf652?width=650
The Marree Man has re-emerged in South Australia’s Far North.“It’s good to get philanthropists like Dick Smith to come and support the Far North,” he said.
“There needs to be more investment in the state’s Far North.”
Mr Stuart said the corporation would also strive to maintain the Marree Man.
“We will try to look after that the best way we can,” he said.
In 2015, the Marree Man could no longer be seen on Google Maps, prompting calls from local tourism operators to rejuvenate the etching.
They estimated the figure could net about $22 million in tourism benefits annually.

Hempy

22nd Aug 2016, 11:44

Let's just call him 'Trec' from now on.

onetrack

22nd Aug 2016, 11:57

There's a lot of Dreaming going on around Marree, and it sure ain't the Aboriginal Dreaming. $22M? Just from an outline carved in the scrub? Give me a break. It sure isn't the Nazca lines.

At least we know now, who paid for the grader and the fuel. :)

IMO, the original artist is well known, there's no mystery over the identity of the Marree Mans original creator, or how and why they did it.

What I find funny is one of the artists best mates, who claims he has intimate knowledge of the whole deal, reckons the outline is a Sumerian Man!!

I wonder how the local Aboriginals will take that, when they find out?? Ha ha, this gets better all the time!

GLENN ADAMUS said:
I am of a few who were privy to the ‘who’ it was behind the creation of this massive desert drawing. The important thing to note is the originator referred to the drawing as that of a SUMERIAN MAN. Not aboriginal as most are led to believe.

Stanwell

22nd Aug 2016, 12:19

Yeah, I think that bit is funny, onetrack.
Anyway, it looks like Trev and Co are going to have to order in a couple more kegs of beer.
Oh, Desert Flower, how are your stocks of fuel and oil?
Hope to see you later this year and I'll plant a kiss on your cheek, you cheeky girl.

Desert Flower

23rd Aug 2016, 08:36

atrocity you say? never mind the mining at Leigh creek..
At least that was done legally.

DF.

Desert Flower

23rd Aug 2016, 08:44

Oh, Desert Flower, how are your stocks of fuel and oil?
Hope to see you later this year and I'll plant a kiss on your cheek, you cheeky girl.

Stanwell, you're a bit behind the times. They turned me out to pasture back in late 2009 after rust was found in the Jet A1 tank & it was deemed not worth replacing it & upgrading the rest of the facility. After a couple of years of no fuel at all available, bowsers were put in - not by BP though. So if you're planning to drop in, better make sure you have your credit card handy & carry your own oil! ;)

DF.

Stanwell

23rd Aug 2016, 08:53

DF.
Gee, doesn't time fly?
Oh well, we'll pop over to the William Creek Bistro then. My shout.
(We'll probably need to reserve a table, though.)

Desert Flower

23rd Aug 2016, 09:21

Mr Turner said the re-emergence of the icon would be a significant boost for year-round tourism in a region largely reliant on seasonal attractions such as Lake Eyre when it filled.

Year-round tourism? He really is delusional if he thinks the city slickers are going to come have a look at some stupid carving in the desert when the temperatures are in the high 40's!

DF.

Desert Flower

24th Dec 2016, 04:30

Well looks like my prediction of this coming back to bite them could come true!

No Cookies | The Advertiser (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/government-bureaucrats-launch-criminal-investigation-against-restoration-of-sa-outback-landmark-the-marree-man/news-story/ecd459784045c5dbcd0b5235a8914260)

DF.

TWT

24th Dec 2016, 05:21

DF,that's behind a pay way wall (subscriber only).

(Mods,if reproducing content which is behind a paywall is against the rules,please delete).

From the Adelaide Advertiser :

THE return of the mysterious Marree Man was hailed as a potential windfall for the South Australian outback – but government bureaucrats have launched a criminal investigation into those who rejuvenated the iconic landmark.

The famous 4.5km geolyth, in the form of an Aboriginal warrior (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/return-of-the-mysterious-giant-marree-man-geoglyph-in-the-desert-sands/news-story/57ba08da5917ec2057f5b2a163e074a0), appeared in the desert in 1998 after a bush pilot spotted the giant and unique artwork.
While the bush reclaimed the original artwork years ago and its creator remains a mystery, a group of local businessmen helped organise graders to ensure the return of Marree Man in August and September this year (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lifestyle/sa-lifestyle/a-line-in-the-sand/news-story/151ea807fb8fa8e1747dd9f1f6fa9ae3).
The project – which won the enthusiastic backing of entrepreneur Dick Smith (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/dick-smith-pledges-new-airstrip-near-rejuvenated-marree-man/news-story/dca299ff60f1fbe655ecfa987daa25e9) – has instead incurred the ire of investigators from the Department of Environment, Water and Resources.
The Advertiser was on Friday handed a warrant – signed off by a magistrate – demanding information about stories written about the return of the Marree Man in September.
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/external?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent6.video.news.com.au%2Fk0cjF 2dzrT_wP4K8nxIAp6BH9a1cff9G%2Fpromo267938737&width=650&api_key=kq7wnrk4eun47vz9c5xuj3mc

http://pixel.tcog.cp1.news.com.au/track/news/content/v2/origin:video_integrator.k0cjF2dzrT_wP4K8nxIAp6BH9a1cff9G?t_p roduct=video&t_template=../video/player
The disappearance of the Marree Man

The warrant states the department is investigating whether proponents of the project had committed the offence of unlawfully clearing native vegetation.
Marree Hotel publican Phil Turner played an integral role in the project and said he was shocked the Environment Department was investigating potential criminal charges.
“This is so typical of the Weatherill government, just bureaucratic stupidity and complete inability to grasp the reality of the fact that there are people with a desire to have it restored in the interests of tourism and we did it with the utmost sense of responsibility,” he said.
Mr Turner said he was this weekend expecting groups of tourists who had flown and driven to the area “just to fly over the Marree Man”.
“They are enthralled with it, it’s captivating Australia – it’s just what the Far North of South Australia needs – and to have that sort of behaviour going on over what was created in the first place, it is just bureaucracy gone mad,” Mr Turner said.
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/eae7d1fe8e1b9965598a0a371abfed0f?width=650
A view of the Marree Man from the air.“It is a complete waste of money and effort and whoever is behind promoting this course of action should be told very politely to go home and pull their bloody head in,” Mr Turner said.Mr Turner said he had consulted extensively with the local Arabunna people before embarking on the ambitious project.
“In the footsteps of those who restore Rembrandts to lesser-known artists, we did nothing more than add credibility to the original artists,” he said.
“Protecting the original artist’s work was of paramount importance, so we did nothing more than the original artist did.”
Mr Turner said he was not worried about the investigation and had a clear conscience about the project.
“I don’t have any concerns. I am very proud of what we have done and I’ve been super proud of the Arabunna people with how they have handled this and worked with us,” he said.
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/acd1dec18e13574f544170bb3374fcd6?width=650
Marree Hotel owner Phil Turner at the site of the Marree man where he recently helped restore the artwork.Dick Smith, who donated money to the Arabunna people to construct an airstrip to ferry tourists over the site, described the investigation as “bureaucracy gone mad”.
“I am staggered, that is a real pity and I think it’s really terrible that they are doing that,” he said.
“We’ve just gone mad as a country. People are just fed up with our present governments and political systems and the complete overkill of regulation.”
A government spokesman last night confirmed an investigation was underway after “complaints (were) received in relation to the Marree Man”.
mmmm
mmmmm
mmm

Dick Smith

24th Dec 2016, 05:54

I thought this government legislation with criminal provisions was to restrict the clearing of woodland and rainforest unless approval had been given.

This situation is totally different .
As far as I can remember the only plants that had grown on the original etching were introduced weeds and whoever re constructed the artwork did a great job in removing these pests.

Now that they have gone no one will ever be able to know if I am correct or not!

I think everyone should talk their friends into going on a charter flight to Marree and William Ck to check the facts on this major legal case.

I also think the SA Department of Prosecutions should send a multi disiplinary task force by a Dick Lang charter to check this out.
Could become the greatest thing for GA in the last decade,!

wishiwasupthere

24th Dec 2016, 06:05

Slightly off topic, but TWT, if you come across an article that needs a subscription on one of the News Corp websites, just paste the title of the article into a Google search and click the link and then you'll be able to read it.

Dick Smith

24th Dec 2016, 06:47

Make sure no one tells the SA Prosecuters about this site! They may be able to work out who did it!

Personally I think this is a matter for the UN.

Desert Flower

24th Dec 2016, 07:12

Dick Smith

24th Dec 2016, 07:46

Nup. Neva bin anigood at spelln,

I am a car radio installer - self taught

But thanks for pointing this out to everyone on Christmas eve!

Happy Christmas to everyone. Be kind .

JamieMaree

24th Dec 2016, 08:51

South Australia:
What a great place : highest unemployment in the country; can't supply a reliable electricity supply to it's residents; can't supply electricity at an economic price; it's major industries are nervous about their business going forward due to the ideological policies of the Weatherill labor government; at the forefront of most progressive political policies; and now they've got the thought police after another target.

gerry111

24th Dec 2016, 12:24

So the S.A. government would like Phil, Dick and Trevor prosecuted for such a wicked act? Yet the same government is quite happy to allow palm oil to be sold in supermarkets marked as vegetable oil. Much of that comes from plantations in Indonesia where vast areas of jungle are burned then cleared. I reckon that there's an inconsistency somewhere here.

Merry Christmas, PPRuNers. :)

onetrack

24th Dec 2016, 13:29

There's no inconsistency in land-clearing laws - and anyone with an ounce of knowledge and ability to read, and who reads the relevant state Environmental legislation, should be left with no doubt about any of the various States Govts intention to prosecute those who think they can flatten native vegetation of any kind, with no reference to anyone.

Unfortunately, Phil Turner has already made it clear that he detests any laws or regulations that infringe on his desire to do as he wishes. He obviously moved to Marree on the basis that State laws and regulations don't apply that far out.

Unfortunately, he's wrong - and he'll probably soon find out, just how wrong he is.
South Australia has had severe environmental restrictions on native vegetation damage as far back as the early 1970's.
In that period, steel-tracked machines were banned from operating in many areas, due to the perceived damage caused by bulldozer tracks.
I know this from firsthand experience, due to being an earthmoving contractor at that time, and carrying out extensive clearing works, installing gridlines on mining exploration leases in W.A. - which did not have such draconian legislation in place in that era.

From around 1985, alarm bells have been ringing in all State Depts over the unfettered destruction of Australia's native vegetation.

The tight clearing laws introduced since that time are designed to ensure that native vegetation destruction is not carried out willy-nilly, and without proper authoritative oversight, and that all stakeholders with an interest in the removal of the native vegetation, are consulted, and have their input or opinion noted.

The low, scrubby native vegetation in the interior of Australia is fragile - and it requires just as much attention in plans for its removal, as applies to heavy woodland and timbered country.

Restrictions on native vegetation clearing exist in every State, and in numerous States the penalties are draconian.

We have already seen the bitterness and hatred of clearing bans resulting in the cold-blooded murder of a Govt officer, in NSW.

Once again, that case revolved around a landowner who thought he could do what he liked with his land, and that any Govt legislation that impinged upon that ability to do as he wished, could be ignored, and he could shoot anyone trying to enforce that legislation.

He was wrong - and he is now serving a life sentence for that cold-blooded murder.
We nearly all detest excessive levels of bureaucracy, but if the Govt of the day considers a problem and passes legislation to address that problem, then we are obliged to work within the confines of that legislation.

The laws apply equally to individuals and large corporations, so there can be no calls that "the little man", is being crushed by excessive legislation.

Dick Smith

24th Dec 2016, 17:59

Yes. Good points- but

The Olympic Dam bore line has destroyed far more native vegetation than the re construction of Marree Man.

Of course if you are a wealthy mining company you can afford the $100 k or so EIS
"Bribe" to get it approved.

It appears if you have enough money there are always environmental companies who will produce a case for a go ahead. Totally dishonest but a fact.

onetrack

24th Dec 2016, 22:07

Well, the difference between the people who have installed and re-cut the Marree Man and between BHP-Billiton, the owner of Olympic Dam and the OD boreline - is that BHP-Billiton would have carried out an extensive and expensive Environmental Impact Study, which examines in detail, the potential conflicts and benefits and environmental impacts of the project.

It is always a fine balancing act, determining the environmental losses, against the economic benefits - and these losses and benefits are always outlined in EIS's, with any recommendations for adverse environmental impact minimisation clearly defined.

The silly part is, if Phil Turner had bothered to examine the Native Vegetation clearing laws of SA and submitted a carefully-structured plan for the Marree Man, with any benefits of the project outlined, along with environmental impact issues addressed, he very likely could have had the project approved, if he had written up a good case for it.

As it stands, Phil Turner prefers to operate in a maverick fashion, outside all and any legislation, and preferring to insist that he is the fount of all knowledge relating to the project, and claiming that all and any legislation protecting native vegetation is just BS and bureaucracy.

It's not an attitude that gets you very far in todays world, unfortunately - particularly when there is particularly stringent legislation applying to what you plan to do - and which legislation has been in place for more than 30 years in many cases - and which legislation, everyone else is obliged to abide by.

Desert Flower

24th Dec 2016, 22:17

Phil Turner isn't the only one operating in a maverick fashion in relation to this - there are other players as well. Too many people that think they can do what they want, when they want, & where they want just because they live in the outback or have cash to splash around.

DF.

Band a Lot

24th Dec 2016, 22:48

22 Oct 2016

The Federal Government has admitted the decision to allow a $130 million deep sea port on the Tiwi Islands near Darwin without an environmental assessment was wrong,

16 Dec 2016

THE marine supply base at Port Melville on the Tiwi Islands has been approved again for use by federal Environment Minister Josh Frydenberg without an environmental impact assessment or any special operating conditions.

Government concedes decision that approved Port Melville on Tiwi Islands was wrong - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-22/government-concedes-over-port-melville/7957322)

Storage tanks that can store up to 30 million litres of diesel have been installed within the area.

No Cookies | NT News (http://www.ntnews.com.au/business/port-melville-supply-base-on-tiwi-islands-approved-again/news-story/ce2b992bc171d8c81d192ac513f4bf68)

All this after this 15 May 2015!

Diesel spill confirmed at controversial Port Melville in Tiwi Islands.

Diesel spill confirmed at controversial Port Melville in Tiwi Islands - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-15/diesel-spill-confirmed-at-controversial-port-melville/6474230)

Makes this statement a little hard to accept:-

The laws apply equally to individuals and large corporations, so there can be no calls that "the little man", is being crushed by excessive legislation.

Isolated case?

Developer escapes prosecution over controversial clearing of land in Darwin's north - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-04/no-penalty-for-developer-in-boulter-road-land-clearing/7001280)

Only one prosecution for illegal land clearing despite 200 complaints, Queensland Government figures show - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-25/illegal-land-clearing-prosecution-queensland-figures/7201246)

No.

onetrack

25th Dec 2016, 09:37

The pressure on the clearing of native vegetation is constant, it's a two-edged sword. On one hand, we have the Greens who do not want a single leaf of any plant touched - on the other hand we have developers who would flatten unique and pristine wilderness areas to make a financial killing.

We are not alone in this, the wholesale destruction of Indonesian rainforests and the similar destruction of the Amazon rainforest are both proceeding unabated, and with rampant corruption and with a low level of Govts controlling oversight.

Mankind is a destructive creature and the machines we build ensure faster and more effective destruction of native, original environments every day.

In the case of removing "relatively useless" native vegetation (an all-encompassing term that is not always correct), to turn the soil to food production, then there is a good case to do so, provided that it is done with oversight involving the communities affected, with input from specialists and scientists, and with the appropriate legislation and control procedures put in place.

As has been shown above, by Band a Lot, many Govts are well behind the 8-ball in ensuring all the appropriate legislation and procedures are in place.
The NT is one place where the politicians and community leaders are still coming to terms with the necessary procedures to properly control unfettered development.

The problems with removing substantial areas of native vegetation revolve around ensuring studies are carried out to ensure that the environmental impacts are controlled, that possibly important species are preserved where they can contribute to the worlds health and well-being (many native plants provide medicines), and to reduce climate impact - because removal of sizeable areas of native vegetation does have an immediate impact on ground temperatures and rainfall patterns.

The SW of Western Australia has suffered a 30% decline in annual rainfall in the last 30-35 yrs, and that just happens to coincide with the massive agricultural clearing programs in the W.A. wheatbelt, that were carried out largely between the 1950's and the mid-1980's, when severe clearing restrictions were introduced - 30 years too late.

The wheatbelt and interior regions of Australia are fragile environments, and desertification is always ready to rage, once the ground is cleared of native vegetation.

In the Interior, clearing and totally denuding areas of ground to provide a visible aerial statement leads to severe erosion during heavy rainfall events - and also it leads to dust storms and severe wind erosion, which produce adverse environmental impacts.

Just simple overgrazing, with the attendant removal of large areas of low vegetation (grasses and shrubby bushes) leads to severe wind erosion and dust storms, and the accompanying adverse environmental impacts.

We nearly all have seen the adverse environmental impacts when drought is included in the overgrazing/excessive clearing equations - and no-one I know thinks those adverse environmental impacts were good.

Our land is here forever, we are only here individually for less than 100 years at most, and the destruction we can do to the land in a very short time, can have major impacts for many centuries afterwards. The Cedar Forests of Lebanon come to mind.

Wind erosion and land management - Australia, during 1940-1949, and 2000-2009 (https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/pages/ba3942af-f815-43d9-a0f3-dd26c19d83cd/files/soe2011-supplementary-land-wind-erosion-and-land-management-australia-during-1940-1949and2000-2009.pdf)

(note that the above study outlines that the Lake Eyre Basin, and the Murray Darling Basin, are Australias "most actively eroding" regions)

Flying Binghi

25th Dec 2016, 12:36

The pressure on the clearing of native vegetation is constant, it's a two-edged sword. On one hand, we have the Greens who do not want a single leaf of any plant touched - on the other hand we have developers who would flatten unique and pristine wilderness areas to make a financial killing.

We are not alone in this, the wholesale destruction of Indonesian rainforests and the similar destruction of the Amazon rainforest are both proceeding unabated, and with rampant corruption and with a low level of Govts controlling oversight.

Mankind is a destructive creature and the machines we build ensure faster and more effective destruction of native, original environments every day.

In the case of removing "relatively useless" native vegetation (an all-encompassing term that is not always correct), to turn the soil to food production, then there is a good case to do so, provided that it is done with oversight involving the communities affected, with input from specialists and scientists, and with the appropriate legislation and control procedures put in place.

As has been shown above, by Band a Lot, many Govts are well behind the 8-ball in ensuring all the appropriate legislation and procedures are in place.
The NT is one place where the politicians and community leaders are still coming to terms with the necessary procedures to properly control unfettered development.

The problems with removing substantial areas of native vegetation revolve around ensuring studies are carried out to ensure that the environmental impacts are controlled, that possibly important species are preserved where they can contribute to the worlds health and well-being (many native plants provide medicines), and to reduce climate impact - because removal of sizeable areas of native vegetation does have an immediate impact on ground temperatures and rainfall patterns.

The SW of Western Australia has suffered a 30% decline in annual rainfall in the last 30-35 yrs, and that just happens to coincide with the massive agricultural clearing programs in the W.A. wheatbelt, that were carried out largely between the 1950's and the mid-1980's, when severe clearing restrictions were introduced - 30 years too late.

The wheatbelt and interior regions of Australia are fragile environments, and desertification is always ready to rage, once the ground is cleared of native vegetation.

In the Interior, clearing and totally denuding areas of ground to provide a visible aerial statement leads to severe erosion during heavy rainfall events - and also it leads to dust storms and severe wind erosion, which produce adverse environmental impacts.

Just simple overgrazing, with the attendant removal of large areas of low vegetation (grasses and shrubby bushes) leads to severe wind erosion and dust storms, and the accompanying adverse environmental impacts.

We nearly all have seen the adverse environmental impacts when drought is included in the overgrazing/excessive clearing equations - and no-one I know thinks those adverse environmental impacts were good.:hmm:

Our land is here forever, we are only here individually for less than 100 years at most, and the destruction we can do to the land in a very short time, can have major impacts for many centuries afterwards. The Cedar Forests of Lebanon come to mind.

Wind erosion and land management - Australia, during 1940-1949, and 2000-2009 (https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/pages/ba3942af-f815-43d9-a0f3-dd26c19d83cd/files/soe2011-supplementary-land-wind-erosion-and-land-management-australia-during-1940-1949and2000-2009.pdf)

(note that the above study outlines that the Lake Eyre Basin, and the Murray Darling Basin, are Australias "most actively eroding" regions)

And Dick smith is responsible for all that! Crikey..:ooh:

Where to start with all this nonsense..:hmm:

WA rainfall records: "...Merredin district rain history shoots hole in widely supported theory that clearing the wheatbelt caused reduction in south west WA rain post 1975..."

Merredin district rain history shoots hole in widely supported theory that clearing the wheatbelt caused reduction in SW WA rain post ~1975 | Errors in IPCC climate science (http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=4260)

That'll do for tonight, not really in the mood for debunking hysterical nonsense..:)

.

gerry111

25th Dec 2016, 13:11

The land where the Marree Man has been redrawn is desert, rather than valuable agricultural land.

I do understand your sensible views, onetrack. But this tiny act of environmental vandalism is simply insignificant, in the scheme of things.

outnabout

25th Dec 2016, 22:27

Gerry111, the size of the act of environmental vandalism is not the issue. What is not in question is that it has occurred, and that the Marree and William Creek publicans have admitted in the media several times that they were involved.

This is a blatant disregard for the law, and so they can expect to be prosecuted. I agree with Desert Flower - I bet if they had submitted a plan, and played by the rules they probably would have got approval and it would all be sweet.

It is the breathtaking arrogance that those involved appear to believe that they can do what they want, when they want, wherever they want that I find staggering.

This is not a case of Outback ingenuity, overcoming all odds to do something amazing. This is a case of a couple of arrogant, greedy individuals vandalising the environment in a bid to attract tourists to their businesses for their own personal gain.

No I won't be contributing to any fighting fund for their legal costs, and I reckon anyone who does is a mug.

Desert Flower

25th Dec 2016, 22:43

Band a Lot

26th Dec 2016, 05:26

Band a Lot

26th Dec 2016, 09:20

Page 24

A person must not clear native vegetation unless the clearance is in accordance with this Part.
Maximum penalty: A sum calculated at the prescribed rate for each hectare (or part of a hectare) of the land in relation to which the offence was committed or $100 000, whichever is greater.
Expiation fee: $750.

Page 25

the amount (if any) per hectare by which the land in relation to which the offence was committed has increased in value as a direct result of the commission of the offence; or

(b) $2 500,

whichever is the greater.

Page 38

If the ERD Court is satisfied on the balance of probabilities that—

(a) the owner or occupier of the cleared land did not know and could not reasonably have been expected to know of the circumstances referred to in subsection (1) requiring the making of an order under section 31A(6)(d); and

(b) compliance with an order under section 31A(6)(d) will cause financial loss to that person,

the Court may—

(c) assess the amount of the financial loss and order the respondent to pay that amount to the owner or occupier of the land; or

(d) refuse to make the order or make the order in a modified form.

If the Court is satisfied that compliance with any order under section 31A(6)(d) would not be reasonably practicable, it may refuse to make the order.

Page 51 - an allegation is proof & it was the owner/occupier if no evidence!!!!

34—Evidentiary

(1) An allegation in enforcement proceedings under Part 5 Division 2 or in proceedings for an offence against this Act that vegetation is, or was, comprised of a plant or plants of a species indigenous to South Australia must be accepted as proved in the absence of proof to the contrary.

(2) Where in enforcement proceedings under Part 5 Division 2 or in proceedings for an offence against this Act it is proved that vegetation has been cleared, it must be presumed in the absence of proof to the contrary that the vegetation was cleared by the owner and occupier of the land on which it is or was growing or is or was situated.

Dexta

26th Dec 2016, 23:35

... the size of the act of environmental vandalism is not the issue. What is not in question is that it has occurred...

This is a blatant disregard for the law, and so they can expect to be prosecuted. I agree with Desert Flower - I bet if they had submitted a plan, and played by the rules they probably would have got approval and it would all be sweet.

I think these two statements exemplify what is wrong with Australia in general. The "Authorities" and parts of the general public cannot, or do not want to, differentiate between something that (although against the law) is beneficial in some way and something that needs to be controlled. e.g. in the U.S. the posted freeway speed limit is 70mph but most of the time you will be sitting on 80-85mph. The C.H.P do not prosecute everybody doing 5mph over the limit because the traffic is flowing and people are being sensible. If a driver is being erratic or driving dangerously then they will be caught and fined.
In Australia, the attitude seems to be (as the statements above indicate) "You broke the law! now we will get you!!!" and If you want to do anything then you will need to appease the bureaucracy/authorities by jumping through whatever hoops they devise and pay whatever fees they determine - "Only We (the bureaucracy) can determine what is good and what is bad and we will not be flexible unless it is politically or personally expedient to do so".
Australia need to find a balance between progress, growth and development and the restriction and punishment of those whose actions are detrimental to society. Rather than swinging wildly from one minorities ideology to another.

Band a Lot

27th Dec 2016, 01:10

Dexta,

Also the one size fits all approach needs to be changed. The process is the same for 1 small sapling that has just grown in your back access road as it is to clear 5,000,000 hectares. That's just plain dumb!

I read through several of the environmental prosecutions (sadly most were intention contaminated fluid into other water sources), the ones related to unapproved clearing seem to fall into 2 categories.

a) Looked into process was to hard so just did the small clearing.

An example of this was a guy had a property next to Crown Land and he had cattle on his fenced property. On the Crown Land were 5 or 6 small trees that were against his fence in away that would have had the fence break and the cattle to escape onto the Crown Land. He asked council about removing them and got the 16 volumes of how to comply with requirements to get approval - he just removed the offending trees and copped a sizable fine. Now I am no expert but at a guess cows eat stuff and lots of it, regardless of it being native or not! So it stands to reason that the farmer should go into the council and say I need to remove these trees or they will break the fence and 120 cows are going to eat everything on your land, and a permit should be issued.

b) the penalty will be worth the gain.

In this case they also knew they needed a permit to clear and the process of how to get one. The problem was 18 plants that can not be removed would not allow for said development (plants would have been in middle of house plots). The entire site was cleared and $10,000 fine issued. In a rare case they were also required to plant 18 of the same type plants on any part of the development they wished. This I hardly find as a deterrent.

In the case of the Marree Man I went through the link DF supplied and I could not find a category that suited the clearing. It was not cleared for mining, fencing, roads, firebreak, or even the "other section" It has been called art and vandalism neither have a category in that detailed document.

When things are so hard and complicated to get, the desired result is often opposite by a large factor.

Dick Smith

27th Dec 2016, 21:30

I am sure it wasn't land clearing. It was clearly restoring the land to what it had been a decade before,

onetrack

28th Dec 2016, 01:43

The bottom line is, to install an "etching" or construction of a very large, highly visible ground statement from the air, means that many hectares of vegetation must be removed and the ground totally denuded - and for it to stay totally denuded.

This goes against all land management policies in semi-desert areas, where even small amounts of vegetation removal - be they native or introduced species, can have dramatic effects upon the balance of nature.

A far better option to create the Marree Man and to ensure it stayed intact would be some form of colour differentation from the natural ground colour - as the Japanese do with their coloured rice crops.

IMO, the Japanese artwork truly is creative and intelligent, as compared to the essentially crude graffiti technique that created the Marree Man.

The artistic rice fields of Japan (https://sanseilife.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/rice-fields-of-japan/)

Dick Smith

28th Dec 2016, 01:56

Hold on. Wikipedia claims Marree Man was created by a famous artist from the Alice.

Hardly crude graffiti!

Band a Lot

28th Dec 2016, 03:35

I am sure it wasn't land clearing. It was clearly restoring the land to what it had been a decade before,
Maybe the truth Dick,

This land was Crown Land at time of original clearing, this cleared land then was given Native Title to the Arabana people.

If no direction was given in the Native Title deal the Arabana people would have the right to maintain it to the cleared condition it was at time of hand back, on the assumption it was an approved clearing- no instruction that it must be revegetated. In much the same way roads and firebreaks are maintained on Native Title land after hand back.

3 years of negotiations with the Arabana people we can expect they approved the clearing. What the other group wish is not relevant as they do not have the Native Title.

I think I read that 2 publicans stumped up the cash for the clearing, not sure that equals driving the grader. If in doubt as per the law the Land Owner did it.

Desert Flower

28th Dec 2016, 04:16

Hold on. Wikipedia claims Marree Man was created by a famous artist from the Alice.

Hardly crude graffiti!
Really? The general consensus of opinion at the time of its discovery was that it was done by the Army, who were in the area at the time.

DF.

Captain Dart

28th Dec 2016, 06:03

An Air Force Macchi instructor decades ago reputedly drew a giant cock and balls over Perth with his contrail. Now, that's a 'famous artist'.

onetrack

28th Dec 2016, 06:11

Page 10 of the Mildura Weekly of 15th January, 2010 gives one outline of the origins of the Marree Man "artwork".

Give me a big patch of bush, lend me a GPS, advance me $10,000, lend me a Caterpillar D6 bulldozer, and give me 600 litres of fuel, and I reckon I could call myself a "famous artist", too!

In fact, I've done multiple thousands of clearing jobs, mining exploration gridlines, major earthmoving alterations to the face of the planet (from drainage to dams to roads), hundreds of mining excavations - all of which can be seen from space, and which all feature on millions of Google Maps.

Where do I collect my "famous earthworks artist", certificate? :) I've only been doing this since 1965 - and all with the seal of Govt approval, and fully legal, too! :)

The Mildura Weekly - 15/01/2010 (https://issuu.com/mweekly/docs/mwvol4no10/10)

Band a Lot

28th Dec 2016, 06:19

Any casual writing or design marked on a wall is a graffito. Graffiti (the plural of graffito)

So the question is do we have one or 2 Marree Man(Men) now?

john_tullamarine

28th Dec 2016, 06:39

Now, that's a 'famous artist'.

(Presuming there was only the one incident).

An RAAF Academy aero engineer - don't recall whether it was during his wings course or on a subsequent ENGO posting and, so far as I know, he never went through CFS. Undergrad colleague of mine at Sydney Uni. I vaguely recall reading a local Perth newspaper article (suitably toned down) at the time which I can't find via net searches at the moment ...

Can't remember the specific year but it would have been during the early-mid 70s.

onetrack

28th Dec 2016, 11:29

There's a substantial amount of reading in the article below (193 pages, to be precise), that both Phil Turner and Dick Smith should have made themselves familiar with, before they raced off with their huge Marree Man re-instatement, tourism plan.

It's called the Marree Soil Conservation Board District Plan, and it's designed to conform with the relevant Soil Conservation legislation in South Australia - the Soil Conservation and Land Care Act 1989.
This legislation operates in conjunction with other previously-mentioned environmental laws, that control native vegetation clearing.

Essentially, the onus is on landowners (and that includes Native Title landowners) to care for their land, to prevent the degradation of their land, and to encourage natural biodiversity.

Besides the previously-mentioned native vegetation clearing legislation, soil conservation plans not only cover protection of native vegetation species, they also cover Introduced Weed control, Feral Animal control, tourist impact control, and dozens of other areas - all specifically aimed at preventing land degradation by thoughtless, ill-informed, and maverick actions by people who prefer to think they can operate on a gung-ho basis, with no reference to any authority.

Marree Soil Conservation Board - District Plan (http://www.naturalresources.sa.gov.au/files/sharedassets/sa_arid_lands/corporate/nrm_groups/marree_soil_conservation_board_plan.pdf)

Band a Lot

28th Dec 2016, 12:14

onetrack, any claim as you said goes to the "land owners" please advise any government response in a "legal historic for on Native Title" then any penalty.

God dam people think all this stuff - but facts are NO environment shyt is required on local or federal level on """"""""certain lands"""""""""""""""""" as per the port at port Melville.

P.S these folk have 1 billion years of conservation records and plans on the land.

gerry111

28th Dec 2016, 12:38

I couldn't read 'The 'Mildura Weekly' link as the print was far too small for me.

But Rosa Faia's photo sure did attract my attention.. :ooh:

Dick Smith

28th Dec 2016, 19:08

Onetrack. No I was not familiar with that document.

I had no need to be. I came with an offer to the local aboriginal community that I would fund the restoration if that's what they wanted. They appeared enthusiastic however before we had any further discussion the restoration work was completed.

I only heard about the restoration after it was completed,

I have now provided the money to the Arabunna Community for an airstrip to be constructed nearby to Marree Man so they have the potential to earn a dollar by taking tourists to the site

No doubt a hugely expensive EIS will have to be completed before this strip goes in and that will probably be un affordable !

onetrack

29th Dec 2016, 01:26

Dick, in every area of Australia, there are development restrictions - whether those areas are urban, rural or outback desert country. Every patch of land has a defined use or zoning.

If I buy some freehold land, I have to investigate the "allowed uses" of the patch of land, before I buy that land, and abide by them after I purchase it.
If I want to construct anything that consists of a defined structure, I have to apply for permission and abide by building and structural codes, and a myriad of other by-laws.

It's the price we pay for our civilised and developed society. Yes, some rules and regulations are petty, and need to be slapped down - or strong arguments put forward, that compliance with petty regulations is not particularly important in your proposed construction/addition/development.

As with all Govt depts, well-reasoned and properly-written-up applications need not cost a fortune, and go a long way to assuaging the doubts of those in power that you're not a maverick, that you recognise the rules and the reasons they exist, and you're happy to abide by them.

Any new airstrip construction will need to address community benefits, existing infrastructure impacts (will the local roads withstand increased traffic to the airstrip and if not, who will fund upgrades to the roads?), drainage issues, soil and vegetation disturbance issues, noise impacts, livestock and native animal impacts, pollution control (oil and fuel spills), and abide by all existing health dept codes.

It's not rocket science, but a new project proposal does involve thought, preparedness, and community discussion and consultation, to ensure that your project proceeds smoothly, and addresses the concerns of all interested parties.

onetrack

29th Dec 2016, 01:30

Gerry111 - When you click on the "Mildura Weekly" link, you can go to full-screen size simply by clicking on the "fullscreen", box-shaped icon on the bottom RH corner of the magazine page. This brings up readable-size print.
You can return to the regular screen by pressing the '"esc" button on the top LH corner of your keyboard.

Band a Lot

29th Dec 2016, 02:19

"It's not rocket science, but a new project proposal does involve thought, preparedness, and community discussion and consultation, to ensure that your project proceeds smoothly, and addresses the concerns of all interested parties."

At that same meeting, the committee reversed its previous decision not to grant heritage clearance for the proposed freeway works.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/23/indigenous-site-older-than-pyramids-in-perth-freeways-path-taken-off-heritage-register?CMP=share_btn_fb

I would suggest a degree of rocket science is required!

Given the amount of very suspicious approvals given (and I have posted a few), In my honest opinion anybody has the right to think these approvals have absolutely no consideration for the environment. They are a tool that can be used if required, to stop a development/event for an opposing person/s benefit/gain.

Desert Flower

29th Dec 2016, 02:43

onetrack

29th Dec 2016, 03:04

I would hazard an educated guess that there are numerous developments that have proceeded, against the best advice and strongest objections, as a result of corruption at high levels.
Australia is no different to any other nation in this regard, it's just our bribery and corruption is kept a lot more secret than many nations, where its carried out openly.

In the case of the Roe 8 freeway extension (in the link provided by Band a Lot), this project has been the subject of major opposition for a long time, and it does involves substantial native vegetation removal, construction disturbance and peoples lives and homesites being disrupted - along with "disturbance" of Aboriginal artefacts.

However, this project has been planned for many many years, the land has been reserved for that project for many many years - and the freeway extension is needed, as it is the vital, final link from the important primary port of Fremantle to the major distribution centres of Perth city.

There have been many opposing groups against the project, from rabid Greens who oppose any form of development, to people who were greatly concerned that their houses would be bulldozed.
The Fremantle area is a hotbed of anti-development, anti-everything, groups of people. This is the same mob who tried to change Australia Day to Jan 28th, as they "felt deeply for the Original Australians" who "view Australia Day as Invasion Day".

All I can say, is that this vocal and rabid group would find a reason anywhere to stop anything that looked like some form of progress.
Aboriginal "artifacts" can be found in most places in Australia, merely by doing a little digging, and sometimes you don't even have to dig for them.
I've picked up sections of classic Aboriginal stone grinding bowls from the wheatbelt, and I didn't report their discovery or trumpet to the world that I'd uncovered a sacred site, or found "important archealogical artefacts".
I merely handed them to a local lady who had a collection of the local native artefacts, just to save them from being lost again.

In the case of Aboriginal "sacred sites", it is generally now recognised that the interpretation of "sacred site" by Aboriginals is quite different to what White Australians regard as a "sacred site".
To Aboriginals, the entire land is sacred, and their Dreamtime stories are woven into the landscape features and the heavens as well.
The definition of "Aboriginal Sacred Site" has gradually been tightened to exclude a lot of spurious claims and to try and ensure that any "sacred site" was used specifically and regularly for tribal initiation purposes or some other ritual purpose.
Of course, with the Aboriginals keeping nothing but oral records, this precise identification of "sacred sites" becomes a lawyers gold mine.

Anytime a few ancient Aboriginal artefacts are dug up, it's generally time for the "opposition-to-development" crowd, to form a united front, with Aboriginal backing, to try to extract concessions, funding, or some other advantage for themselves.

Band a Lot

29th Dec 2016, 03:57

So we can forget about environmental impacts and statements) if we bribe the right person/group, it is "vital" and been a plan for years.

But the majority must actually follow the rules!

Would be funny in Australia had the Egyptian's not Aborigine's, that Sphinx is in the way of a plan I have had for years.

"final link from the important primary port of Fremantle to the major distribution centres of Perth city"

What taxi driver did you ask? Bibra Lake is about 8km SE of Freemantle and Perth City is around 15 km to the NE.

Since the site had enough indigenous items to warrant a survey in 1970's, why was Farrington Road never in the plan. I lived in Bibra Lake in 1985was not much around that entire area.

onetrack

29th Dec 2016, 05:13

Nowhere have I said what you are saying. I did say I suspect some projects were carried out as a result of bribery. The QLD mining magnate Ken Talbot was facing corruption charges just prior to him being killed in the Sundance aircraft crash in the Congo. It has been proven he paid the corrupt MP Gordon Nuttall in excess of $350,000 in bribes for favoured treatment. There are many others who have never been caught.

All major development projects come with their opponents, and many have valid arguments. Often valid arguments and environmental losses have to be weighed against the major national benefit of the project.
It's often a very difficult call, and it nearly always comes down to who has the best-paid lawyers.

I've lived in W.A. for most of my life and I know the layout of the city pretty well. If you lived in Bibra Lake, then you should know that Roe Hwy is a ring road around the city, and the major distribution centres are Canning Vale (S) and Welshpool (SE), not Perth City.

Farrington Rd was part of the Roe 8 extension plan, but due to the amount of organised opposition there, Farrington Rd was dropped from the final route.

gerry111

1st Jan 2017, 13:36

Thank you, Onetrack. All's under control now.

onetrack

10th Mar 2017, 05:33

Desert Flower

10th Mar 2017, 07:08

Well, it looks like gerry111's quiet confidence, that "All's under control", could be about to be put to the torch of the environmental laws test. :)

ABC News (AU) - Marree Man land clearance under investigation (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-10/marree-man-land-clearance-under-investigation/8343794)
They need to look further than the two publicans though. What about the person who has put up the money to build an airstrip nearby?

DF.

Lead Balloon

10th Mar 2017, 07:15

"Under investigation". So the first 5 minutes of the investigation involves reading newspapers and blogs. Will be interesting to see what happens after everyone stays schtum.

Pinky the pilot

10th Mar 2017, 07:53

Will be interesting to see what happens after everyone stays schtum.

You mean the 'Sergeant Schultz' defence Leadie?:D:E:ok:

Desert Flower

10th Mar 2017, 08:05

"Under investigation". So the first 5 minutes of the investigation involves reading newspapers and blogs. Will be interesting to see what happens after everyone stays schtum.
Bit hard to stay schtum when you've shot your big mouth off on radio & TV though.

DF.

Lead Balloon

10th Mar 2017, 08:13

If those shooting offs of the mouth were sufficient, there would be no need now to talk to the people with those mouths, who now have the right to say nothing.

gerry111

10th Mar 2017, 10:02

"Thank you Onetrack. All's under control now."

Onetrack, my comment was in response to your advice to me at #116. That was about my inability to read the "Mildura Weekly" link.

UBE

23rd Mar 2017, 06:15

All very interesting! So many opinions so little knowledge.

Desert Flower

23rd Mar 2017, 07:10

All very interesting! So many opinions so little knowledge.

Well UBE, since you've just come back from a trip up that way perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to exactly what you mean by that comment?

DF.

UBE

23rd Mar 2017, 12:47

Well UBE, since you've just come back from a trip up that way perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to exactly what you mean by that comment?

DF.

I've Always wondered how a Rose could be a desert flower?

gerry111

23rd Mar 2017, 15:59

"All very interesting! So many opinions so little knowledge."

UBE,

You're clearly in "the know" as to what's happening out there?

So please tell us all more? Have the naughty publicans been dragged away to their prison cells yet?

Many of us know who D.F. is because we have rather pleasant memories of doing business in the general aviation game with her.

But I reckon that it's poor form to attempt to identify a participant on an anonymous forum?

Desert Flower

23rd Mar 2017, 21:31

I've Always wondered how a Rose could be a desert flower?

UBE - Google Sturt's Desert Rose then.

DF.

gerry111

28th Apr 2017, 12:13

I flew over Marree Man last Saturday and reckon that it's a good job. :uhoh:

(To see real environmental destruction of the outback, visit Maralinga.)

Matt48

29th Apr 2017, 02:34

Rather than restoring MM by disturbing the soil, why not plant something that's native and local to the area, either green or colourful, to highlight the outline.

Desert Flower

29th Apr 2017, 03:32

Rather than restoring MM by disturbing the soil, why not plant something that's native and local to the area, either green or colourful, to highlight the outline.

Well it's already been gone over - so what would be the point? :ugh:

DF.

PLovett

29th Apr 2017, 06:26

I flew over Marree Man last Saturday and reckon that it's a good job. :uhoh:

(To see real environmental destruction of the outback, visit Maralinga.)

Well to do real environmental damage you gotta have a-bombs for that satisfying burn and blow-down, let alone a multi-thousand year half life for the rubbish you leave. Another monument to Australia's obsequience when it comes to "friends".

outnabout

30th Aug 2017, 01:39

Published in The Advertiser, 23 August 2017:

THE Environment Department is still investigating two pub owners who rejuvenated an Outback icon, nine months after it started looking into a complaint.

The Department of Environment, Water and Natural Resources refused to comment on why the investigation into the restoration of the Marree Man was taking so long, stating only that it was “ongoing”.

Opposition environment spokesman David Speirs savaged the department’s “skewed priorities” for continuing to pursue the long-running inquiry, after The Advertiser revealed yesterday it had spent $80,000 on indoor pot plants.

“Whether it’s spending $80,000 on pot plants or racking up expensive legal bills, these examples show a department that has lost sight of its purpose,” Mr Speirs said.

“While we want people to care for native vegetation, this costly investigation process has taken months to complete and DEWNR’s limited resources would be better spent investing in our national parks or employing more rangers.

“The number of park rangers is at historic lows, yet the department’s primary focus has been taking a big stick approach to tourism operators.

“ The department should be partnering with land owners to improve our environment rather than spending thousands of tax payers’ dollars on a witch hunt.”

Environment Minister Ian Hunter said the department was simply doing its job by investigating a complaint and accused the Opposition of deflecting from its internal problems.

“Is Mr Speirs really suggesting we should give a minister discretion to choose which law to uphold and which law to ignore?” Mr Hunter said.

Tourist flights to Marree were reduced from 2010, when the famous 4.5km geoglyph in the form of an Aboriginal warrior became almost impossible to spot from the air. As of last year, the image was no longer visible on Google Maps.

It prompted two pub owners — the Marree Hotel’s Phil Turner and William Creek Hotel’s Trevor Wright — to hire a grader operator to restore the image.

Mr Turner told The Advertiser last year the work was necessary to kickstart the area’s flagging tourism industry.

Work to repair the geoglyph, which was designed by an unknown artist and first spotted by a bush pilot in 1998, was completed over five days in August last year.Both publicans refused to comment while the investigation was ongoing, but have stressed the rejuvenation was only conducted after receiving permission from the Arabana Aboriginal Corporation, the area’s Native Title holders.

The Advertiser revealed DEWNR was investigating the pub owners in December 2016 after it demanded information about stories written about the return of the Marree Man last September.

It has since interviewed four journalists and photographers, as well as serving Mr Wright and Mr Turner with warrants demanding copies of all emails and correspondence about their plan.

Entrepreneur Dick Smith, who has donated money to build an airstrip at Marree, said the restoration of the famous geoglyph was a “minor issue” and not worth investigating.

“It’s a nothing. They shouldn’t be wasting their money on this,” he said.

“They should be concentrating their resources on real environmental concerns. All the pub owners were doing is reconditioning the real Marree Man, to say they were damaging native vegetation is ridiculous.”

End of article.

However, the Department can't be that worried about the environmental conscience / awareness of one publican. Earlier this month, The Department awarded exclusive use of Dalhousie Springs airstrip, in the Witjira National Park, to Wrightsair for the next 18 months.

Desert Flower

30th Aug 2017, 04:20

Tourist flights to Marree were reduced from 2010, when the famous 4.5km geoglyph in the form of an Aboriginal warrior became almost impossible to spot from the air. As of last year, the image was no longer visible on Google Maps.

What a load of bs - the downturn in flights had absolutely nothing to do with the disappearance of the Marree Man. If anything, the downturn was as a result of hardly any water in Lake Eyre, which is the main attraction - the Marree Man was only a bonus. It also probably had a lot to do with fuel not being available at YLEC for a couple of years.

DF.

Lead Balloon

30th Aug 2017, 04:56

Gosh. So much complexity around what was supposed to be easy to prove.

I thought we had the publicans banged to rights, Guv'na.

gerry111

30th Aug 2017, 12:02

Flying Binghi

1st Sep 2017, 04:04

I reckon South Australians need as much tourism as they can attract.....

Don't worry, the green pixie dust will save S.A. Just look what its done for their power supply..:hmm:

.

le Pingouin

1st Sep 2017, 05:17

Yup, it was them windmills fault, they blew them pylons over.

Pilotette

1st Sep 2017, 09:22

Desert Flower

1st Sep 2017, 10:42

Just on a side note:
If DEWNR were really serious about prosecuting individuals for environmental destruction in that area, perhaps they should set up a few cameras and fine every Tom, Dick and Harry that decide it's their right to drive past the "Rehabilitation Area, Keep Out" signs in order to do some circle work or 4 wheel driving up and down the breakaways? There's thousands of tracks that have been created, not only "without permission" but while blatantly ignoring the signs.

And what about people who drive on roads that have been closed due to rain & chop them up? Happens all the time around here because some people think the world owes them a living. Let's just call it the rape & pillage of the outback & be done with it.

DF.

zanzibar

1st Sep 2017, 11:32

No, the road vandals are too hard to pursue and prosecute. Much easier to chase a soft target, prosecute them and show the world what a good job the authorities are doing - that'll scare the road vandals into sensibility, NOT.

Flying Binghi

1st Sep 2017, 12:34

Just on a side note:
If DEWNR were really serious about prosecuting individuals for environmental destruction in that area, perhaps they should set up a few cameras and fine every Tom, Dick and Harry that decide it's their right to drive past the "Rehabilitation Area, Keep Out" signs in order to do some circle work or 4 wheel driving up and down the breakaways? There's thousands of tracks that have been created, not only "without permission" but while blatantly ignoring the signs.

'Land Cruiser Dream Time' do have its down side...:)

.

outnabout

4th Sep 2017, 01:20

Gerry111:

There are those who think that a diet of porridge at Yatala might be just the ticket for the individuals you mention.
There are those who think that those individuals you name are not the Messiah, they are just very naughty boys!

And I agree with Pilotette - 4WD-ers who ignore "road closed" or "rehabiliation area keep out" signs should also have the book thrown at them.

gerry111

4th Sep 2017, 09:53

And I agree with Pilotette - 4WD-ers who ignore "road closed" or "rehabiliation area keep out" signs should also have the book thrown at them.

I sure do agree with you and Pilotette on that. Ignoring the electronic road closed signs is absolute stupidity. Wanton environmental destruction is clearly wrong but it's happening every day in the Sydney basin. (Because there's so much money to be made doing it.)

But having flown over 'Marree Man' in April, I believe that there's an interesting bit of contemporary art to be seen there.

(Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic?)

outnabout

12th Sep 2017, 04:54

Gerry111 - I think that the Marree Man is a fab bit of contemporary art. I would love to see a line of similar figures across the desert - roos, emus, Dreamtime creatures. I can understand the frustration of the two publicans in wanting to rejuvenate it as a tourism attraction....but it appears there was not much of an attempt to follow the rule book, more of a "let's get it done, and hang the consequences" attitude that I find quite arrogant.

But according to today's newspaper, it wasn't them at all....

New theories claim famous Australian outback drawing was created by aliens
Behemoth Marree Man carving in remote South Australia was discovered in 1998
Group claims extra-terrestials may have drawn figure to identify the planet
By Sam McPhee For Daily Mail Australia

New theories claim a famous behemoth Australian outback drawing was created by aliens as an orbital indicator.

The Marree Man depicts the figure of an Aboriginal man hunting and was discovered in 1998 by a pilot flying over the remote region of South Australia.

Mystery History claim the geoglyph, which would have required a fleet of vehicles and a sophisticated communication system to carve, could have been executed by aliens as a marker to indicate what habits the planet.

The artwork, an astonishing 28km in length, was visible from space and locals have several theories as to its creator.
People believe the carving may have been a gift from the US military who had been based at the Woomera Royal Australian Air Force Base.
Others say Marree Man was drawn by local South Australian artist Bardius Goldberg, who passed away in 2002. He reportedly told friends he'd been paid $10,000 to create the figure.
Mystery History believe this would be highly unlikely, as a creation of this magnitude and sophistication would demand huge resources and coordination.
'The fact that no one saw it being created or additionally reported its creation will remain extremely perplexing,' they say.
'To create such an image, a fleet of vehicles would have been required, a system of radio communication and a team of individuals.'
The remote area, located more than 700 kilometres from Adelaide, provides a landscape for any conventional means of man-made carving nearly impossible.
'All this completed within a dry, remote, unforgiving corner of the Australian outback without telling anyone it's there.'
In 2015, 17 years after it was first discovered, the Marree Man mysteriously disappeared. It is unknown whether it faded with time, if weather eroded the carving or if its alien designers no longer needed the reminder.
This is not the first time Aboriginal drawings have been linked to extra-terrestrials, with English settlers claming drawings of the Wandjina spirits found in caves in Western Australia depicted contact of the indigenous Australians with aliens in the past.
Images of large figures with halo-like objects around their heads, large flashing eyes, a slim nose, no mouth and extravagant dressing confused British explorers.
The pictures show the spirits watching over an Aboriginal community, which the British believed were stories of a possible encounter with those not from this world.
Locals reject the claims, saying the British analysis was misunderstood and offensive.

Desert Flower

12th Sep 2017, 06:04

gerry111

2nd Oct 2017, 13:03

Flying Binghi

2nd Oct 2017, 13:09

...Apparently the outline is already being overtaken by the desert, once again...

Buggar! ...its all that extra CO2 in the air. It makes the plants grow faster... stronger..., and all that with less water..:cool:

.

gerry111

2nd Oct 2017, 13:31

It's currently rather wet on the Oodnadatta Track around William Creek. (The roads are closed in and out.)

Thank goodness for the Julia Gillard initiated financial stimulation packages! That enabled all the covered outdoor learning areas at public schools to be built. (Not so well known, are the covered outdoor stockyard auction sheds such as the massive one close to Moss Vale.)

Nor the aerodromes such as YWMC that were made weatherproof under the same project. :oh:

Flying Binghi

2nd Oct 2017, 14:03

Perhaps them mob who cleared the trees to make Marree Man can help California with their tree clearing problems. Apparently there is $37,000,000,000 on offer...

"...Millions of trees are dying in southern California. One price tag for removing the dead trees over the next 30 years is $37bn..."

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/10/02/los-angeles-will-not-replace-dying-palm-trees-because-climate-change/

.

Pinky the pilot

3rd Oct 2017, 06:45

Loved the Alien theories. Showed just how wacky some people can get!:=

I still remember listening to an Adelaide based talkback radio show just after the Marree Man first appeared. One Female caller to the show stated that it was extra-terrestrial in origin and that there was another similar but even larger figure elsewhere in South Australia that had not yet been found.:ooh:

When the Radio Announcer asked the caller how she knew all of this, her reply was that she was a Spiritualist.

"A methylated spiritualist?" enquired the Announcer.:eek:

As I remember, that comment went way over the caller's head, and through to the keeper!:D

BTW: DF, how are ya? Still missing the fruitcake and minties we used to bring ya?:ok::E

Flying Binghi

3rd Oct 2017, 07:44

...When the Radio Announcer asked the caller how she knew all of this, her reply was that she was a Spiritualist.

"A methylated spiritualist?" enquired the Announcer.:eek:

.

You do know that a lot of them talk back call-ins are scam callers done by the radio station themselves...;)

I think the best scam call were the daylight saving issue with the 'granny' ringing in about curtains fading from extra sunlight if daylight saving gets introduced to QLD..:)

.

Pinky the pilot

3rd Oct 2017, 09:45

You do know that a lot of them talk back call-ins are scam callers done by the radio station themselves...

Certainly do! Once heard an ABC talkback announcer 'outed' quite convincingly!:ok:

However, on the occasion I related above; I know the Radio personality concerned quite well.(We are both members of a 'Club') I once good naturedly castigated him about that particular incident, saying he should be ashamed of himself, etc etc!!:=:D

He did a good imitation of looking suitably chastised:D, but with a grin remarked along the lines that it was an opportunity not to be missed and...hey.. it was funny, yes?:D I couldn't argue with that.

Back to our regular program.:E

Desert Flower

3rd Oct 2017, 09:57

BTW: DF, how are ya? Still missing the fruitcake and minties we used to bring ya?:ok::E

Yeah - sucks now I have to buy my own! :{

DF.

Clinton McKenzie

3rd Oct 2017, 10:02

I've heard a rumour that someone, over the October long weekend, flew from somewhere to elsewhere via Marree man. (Apparently the outline is already being overtaken by the desert, once again.) A local publican was informed of this.. :ooh:I can confirm that rumour, GIII. :ok:

I and a colleague flew over the MM on Saturday. He seemed quite faded, even compared with when you, M and I flew over him back in April during the Maralinga trip. I mentioned this in passing to Trevor W, but he seemed to be completely uninterested.

As usual, there was lots of water and rain around (crud at 200' on the CBP TAF) and the Track was closed in both directions out of YWMC. We witnessed a couple of tourists nonetheless head down the Track in defiance of the signs. :eek:

gerry111

3rd Oct 2017, 11:27

As usual, there was lots of water and rain around

I think that I've been to YWMC around nine or ten times and YFRT about six. Almost invariably, both places are soaking wet. :confused:

Clinton McKenzie

3rd Oct 2017, 11:33

Perhaps there's a geoglyph near YFRT as well as YWMC, and these attract rain?

Spooky! :eek:

gerry111

3rd Oct 2017, 11:39

Perhaps there's a geoglyph near YFRT as well as YWMC, and these attract rain?

All the more reason for yet another trip there to check out: "The science."

(Or yet another fun morning foraging in the historic, technical, rubbish tip?) :)

Flying Binghi

5th Oct 2017, 00:16

I think that I've been to YWMC around nine or ten times and YFRT about six. Almost invariably, both places are soaking wet. :confused:
The 'al gore effect'...

Yer musta had Tim Flannery on board with yer. He's the chap who said it would never rain again in Oz and were a key player in getting all them mothballed desalination plants built.

.

kaz3g

5th Oct 2017, 09:36

I think that I've been to YWMC around nine or ten times and YFRT about six. Almost invariably, both places are soaking wet. :confused:

Would those visits all have been made in winter, perhaps? It was 43 deg there last week.

Kaz

gerry111

5th Oct 2017, 10:08

Would those visits all have been made in winter, perhaps? It was 43 deg there last week.

Kaz

At several different times of the year, Kaz. It's true that we generally avoid the middle of summer for obvious reasons.(Looks like spring is to avoided in future!)

One trip to YWMC was on a January long weekend and it rained..

Desert Flower

5th Oct 2017, 12:12

At several different times of the year, Kaz. It's true that we generally avoid the middle of summer for obvious reasons.(Looks like spring is to avoided in future!)

One trip to YWMC was on a January long weekend and it rained..

Not sure if it's raining up YWMC way at the moment, but it is in YLEC - 5mm so far. Looks like we could get more in the next couple of days too.

DF.

gerry111

5th Oct 2017, 12:18

I mentioned this in passing to Trevor W, but he seemed to be completely uninterested.

I heard a rumour (from another source) that an outback publican may have found a new squeeze..

Desert Flower

5th Oct 2017, 13:31

I heard a rumour (from another source) that an outback publican may have found a new squeeze..

OMG - she'd have to be a very brave woman then!

DF.

gassed budgie

5th Oct 2017, 15:02

OMG - she'd have to be a very brave woman then!

She must've had the beer goggles on! Needs to visit the nearest Specsavers.

outnabout

6th Oct 2017, 03:25

Just goes to show there is someone for everyone.

Lucky him to be able to afford a girlfriend for the whole night, not just an hour.

gerry111

18th Feb 2018, 12:12

So are the two very naughty publicans in Yatala yet?
I'm thinking perhaps not..

Desert Flower

19th Feb 2018, 01:35

So are the two very naughty publicans in Yatala yet?
I'm thinking perhaps not..

Not as far as I know - I'm sure I would have heard via the local rumour mill if they were.

DF.

Pinky the pilot

19th Feb 2018, 05:08

What are they supposed to have done to warrant such a penalty?:confused:

Reply via Pm would be a good idea.

Dick Smith

19th Feb 2018, 06:55

I will give a free jar of ozemite to anyone who can advise who was the genius that put in the original Marree Man?

peterc005

19th Feb 2018, 07:43

I will give a free jar of ozemite to anyone who can advise who was the genius that put in the original Marree Man?

I'm getting a taste for "ozemite", apologies for the earlier "tastes like axle grease" comment.

Would prefer if ozemite came in larger jars. Your peanut butter is spot-on.

cooperplace

19th Feb 2018, 07:56

The 'al gore effect'...

Yer musta had Tim Flannery on board with yer. He's the chap who said it would never rain again in Oz and were a key player in getting all them mothballed desalination plants built.

.
yeah, Mike Rann spent about $2bn of our money building one in SA that's barely used. Well done Mike.

Pinky the pilot

19th Feb 2018, 09:00

Thread drift

Would prefer if ozemite came in larger jars. Your peanut butter is spot-on.

Second the above, Dick. BTW, I spend three months of every year on a working Holiday in Hokkaido Japan, and I always take about four jars of your Peanut Butter (My generation still call it Peanut paste!!) with me.:ok:

I occasionally find that some of the locals ask if they can try it. Next thing, the jar disappears!!:{

We now return to the original thread subject.

gerry111

19th Feb 2018, 11:16

Further thread drift.

What used to be overseas owned Kraft peanut butter and Vegemite are now owned again by an Australian company: Bega Cheese.

Now back to aviation issues..

Dick Smith

19th Feb 2018, 17:55

So who put in Marree Man?

I thought posters on prune knew everything.

Clinton McKenzie

19th Feb 2018, 18:53

I believe it was aliens!

Slippery_Pete

20th Feb 2018, 02:15

So who put in Marree Man?

I thought posters on prune new everything.

I PM’d you years ago suggesting I knew exactly who might have been behind it.

I also asked what prize I might receive for working it out.

Strangely, you never replied.

Possum1

20th Feb 2018, 03:13

Seeing this is a rumour network - when I heard about this in the late 90's, I immediately thought of an individual at Cootamundra that some circumstantial evidence pointed to. But I'm by no means certain.

Dick Smith

20th Feb 2018, 06:12

Yep. Spoke to the Cootamundra charter operator but only got a denial and could find no evidence.

Pete. I will give you a years supply of Ozemite!

I admitted to the Iceberg. Why doesn’t someone admit to the Man!

Pinky the pilot

20th Feb 2018, 09:29

Pete. I will give you a years supply of Ozemite!

Half yer flamin' luck Mate!!:ok::ok:

gerry111

20th Feb 2018, 12:12

I believe it was aliens!

Perhaps..

But I've heard a rumour that it was possibly:

"That deaf; dumb; blind kid who sure plays mean pinball." :O

Desert Flower

20th Feb 2018, 12:34

Rumoured to have been the Army guys who were in the area at the time.

DF.

Slippery_Pete

20th Feb 2018, 21:40

Pete. I will give you a years supply of Ozemite!

Ah, no thanks. Not my cup of tea I’m afraid.

I admitted to the Iceberg. Why doesn’t someone admit to the Man!

Who says it’s a different person? The legal ramifications might be holding SAID person back.

You haven’t answered the question as to whether I was right. I could only assume that the lack of reply meant I was correct.

Slippery_Pete

21st Feb 2018, 06:58

Wow, the silence is deafening now.

Pinky the pilot

21st Feb 2018, 08:20

A whisper I once heard 'yonks ago round the traps' would indicate that Desert Flower's last post would be fairly close to the truth!

Obviously though, those who really know are using the Sergeant Schultz technique.:eek::ooh::D

And can you blame them?

Slippery_Pete

21st Feb 2018, 23:42

I will take the lack of reply as further confirmation I was right.

Dick Smith

22nd Feb 2018, 09:32

Pete. I have no idea who you have claimed put in Marree Man!

Why the secrecy? I bet you don’t have any evidence

Desert Flower

23rd Feb 2018, 12:14

From the Adelaide Advertiser:

Marree Man: SA Liberals vow to scrap “unnecessary” probe if they form government
THE lengthy investigation into the rejuvenation of the iconic Marree Man will be scrapped if the Liberal Party forms government at next month’s election.
Liberal environment spokesman David Speirs said enough time and resources had already been wasted on the investigation, which has been running since December 2016.
An Environment Department spokeswoman said the investigation into whether vegetation was unlawfully cleared while the tourism icon was restored to its former glory by two pub owners was being “finalised”.
The spokeswoman said she could not comment on the investigation’s validity or any potential findings.
The department last year interviewed Advertiser journalists and photographers about what they knew of the Marree Man restoration, after threatening to compel them to give evidence.
Mr Speirs said it was time for the department to “get back to delivering services to South Australians”.
“A Liberal government will direct the department to stop directing unnecessary resources to this issue,” he said.
SA Best leader Nick Xenophon has also criticised the investigation, but is yet to declare whether he would move to stop it if he ended up running the state or helping a major party to govern.

DF.

gerry111

25th Feb 2018, 10:36

I'm impressed!

I never imagined that the always safe, Liberal incumbent of the S.A. Electoral Division of Grey may be worried about a possible NX candidate..

Or perhaps Cory's mob?

Trevor, Successfully getting Optus coverage for YWMC may be scaring the Croweater State political class?:ok:

On eyre

25th Feb 2018, 10:48

Grey is a federal seat not state. NX are running as SA Best in the coming SA state election.

Lead Balloon

25th Feb 2018, 10:53

You may be confusing the state and federal electorates and elections, GIII? Grey is a federal electorate and the upcoming election is a state (SA) election.

More importantly, I’m surprised at any suggestion that the decision to prosecute or not to prosecute depended on who’s in government. Surely politics would never come in to that decision.

Pinky the pilot

25th Feb 2018, 11:09

Surely politics would never come in to that decision.

Wanna bet?:=

And for that matter, in any decision, on any subject??:hmm::mad::*

gerry111

25th Feb 2018, 11:23

On eyre and Lead Balloon,

Bloody 'eck, wrong again! Looks like my Monday dinner will be further humble pie..

(I'm just so "over the moon" and continue celebrating with a good red that I've finally qualified for a NSW Seniors Card and Gold Opal.)

:):):)

Desert Flower

5th Apr 2018, 23:00

From today's Adelaide Advertiser:

TWO pub owners who rejuvenated Outback icon Marree Man say they have been vindicated by a decision not to lay criminal charges, despite an Environment Department investigation that found they illegally cleared land.
Environment Minister David Speirs told The Advertiser that charges would not be laid because 25 hectares of native vegetation was “regenerating”.
But he said an Enforcement Notice would be issued to prevent any further vegetation without formal government approval.
Marree Hotel owner Phil Turner and William Creek Hotel’s Trevor Wright, who masterminded the 2016 rejuvenation to boost tourism numbers, are celebrating the end of the lengthy and costly investigation and both have vowed to never take part in any future restorative work on the icon.

“This clears us of any wrongdoing as we had what we believe was approval from the Native Title holders (the Arabana Aboriginal Corporation),” Mr Turner said.
Tourists might have just four or five years to view the geoglyph before it fades again. Mr Wright and Mr Turner both categorically ruled out being involved in another rejuvenation.
“It’s been an extremely stressful time,” Mr Wright said.
“Any future rejuvenation would need to be determined by the appropriate people, but this little black duck is going to have nothing to do with it.”

Mr Turner said he could “definitely” rule out having any future role in rejuvenating the Marree Man, even if asked to do so by the area’s Native Title holders.
“This should now pave the way for the SA Tourism Commission to get behind the Marree Man with a strong, co-ordinated marketing effort to realise the potential of what is — without a doubt — a significant asset in the Far North,” he said.
Mr Speirs said the State Government was “always open” to considering development applications but all official approvals must be obtained before work begun.
He said the Department could now get on with delivering the Government’s “comprehensive environmental policy agenda”.

“This investigation has dragged on for over 12 months and diverted departmental resources away from delivering practical environmental outcomes,” Mr Speirs said.
The famous 4.2km tall geoglyph — created by an unknown artist, although many suspect local eccentric Bardius Goldberg was involved — was first spotted from the air in 1998.
The original image began to fade noticeably early this decade, and was not able to be spotted on Google Maps prior to the rejuvenation.

DF.