VA big loss

[RodH]

The ABC news is reporting that VA has suffered a $250 million dollar full year loss after restructuring.
Not a good result but let's hope they can turn it around as it is such a great Airline to fly with.
As a retired Pilot I sincerely hope all goes well for them as a career upset is one of the most distressing events of ones life.
Good luck to them and all of their staff.

[Half Baked]

I think it time The Borg was punted!

He was appointed in a ceremony of pomp and circumstance, anointed as the Saviour!

How long can his stewardship continue under sustained losses?

[VH-ABC]

People keep giving him money though... Go figure.

[wheels_down]

The Kiwis tried to push Borg but the Singaporeans and Hogan just wouldn't have it.

Bali Volcano's cost 40m. Tiger Bali flights 'operated by Virgin'....now I wonder who is going to pick up that bill....

[mattyj]

Time to go back to cheerful red planes and Indiana jones uniforms

[framer]

I think Matty might be right.
It worked. Everyone knew what it was. You got what you payed for.

[Trevor the lover]

It's not often that I'm right, but.............troll back a few years ago on these threads when JB first took over and started his dramatic restructure. He was lauded like the second coming of Jesus Christ. The threads prove it - he was the hero.


The more I read all the huge masses of praise the more I said "I'll call him the saviour when the Virgin group returns a profit. Let's wait and see how this goes before we make JB Sir JB."


Things on here seem a bit different now!

[cavemanzk]

Time to shutup shop? pretty much is becoming the next Ansett.

They have become pretty confused with there fleet in the past couple of years.

777-300ER
330-200
A320-200 - Going
737-800
737-700
E190 - Going
E170 - Gone
F100
F50 - Gone
72-600 - Going
72-500 - Going

Allot for an pretty small airline, and with growing fleet age give a couple of years and they will be gone,

I wonder what spare parking MEL has these days :O
http://planesandchoppers.com.s3.amazonaws.com/12482.jpg

[Snakecharma]

The tiger 320's are going but the vara ones are staying so the simplicity factor is reduced.

The atr 72-600 are staying, and not sure if all the 500's are going..

Only 2 -700's left but their differences are engineering related not crew related so minimal savings there.

Funny how QF can make the 717 work so their is a need in the marketplace for a jet smaller than 176 odd seats....

[VH-FTS]

Funny how QF can make the 717 work so their is a need in the marketplace for a jet smaller than 176 odd seats....

QF make outsourced 717s work, with some nice little penalty payments if things don't go to plan.

Any truth that Alliance is about to start a bunch of flying in QLD (apart from EMD), replacing Ejet and ATR flying?

[Sicofit]

Virgin started as a low cost carrier and moved out of that area into competition with QF; a well established cashed up company with a large fleet plus established lounges and terminals etc.
The successful low cost airlines such as Easyjet, Ryanair and Southwest stayed no frills and operated one type and used low cost terminals and are all extremely successful.
They operate on time and if you want extras such as an aisle seat with a extra bags,you pay for them.
Virgin as one of the posts says,have too many different types in their fleet and have completely deviated from the low cost concept ,probably because the Borg wanted to take his old employer.
Anyway,it would be a shame to see it go under,because if it does,it will be QF or the horse and cart.I will go for the horse and cart.:{

[HighFlyer55]

Virgin as one of the posts says,have too many different types in their fleet.:{

Isn't that precisely what they're addressing by getting rid of the Fokker 50, Ejet and ATR 500?

[Going Boeing]

Apart from too many aircraft types, the fleet size is important for economy of scale. It is generally recognised that the minimum fleet size should be in the order of 12 to 15 aircraft. The small A330 and B777 fleets are efficient aircraft but the fleet size means that engineering, crew costs etc are significantly higher - this is a situation that Borghetti inherited from his predecessor.

A couple of years ago, someone suggested that Virgin would replace both the A330 and B777 fleets with A350's. This would allow a larger, more efficient single fleet but would require significant amount of money for the change over but also, the A350 would be an overkill for the routes that the A330 is currently operated on.

[Snakecharma]

Actually Borghetti cancelled the remaining orders for 777's when he turned up (if I remember correctly there were firm orders and options for up to 13 777's) and then introduced the 330 and the ATR72-500 and 600, bought Skywest for an outrageously inflated price thereby introducing 3 more types to the mix and then bought tiger, so I think the blame for fleet complexity can be fairly pointed directly at JB.

Virgin had two types when he turned up - the 737 and the ejet. He gave the 170's away only to replace them with ATR's which cost as much if not more to run.

Not only did he add fleet complexity of a colossal scale, he did so at premium prices because he had to have it "now".

It is easy to arm chair quarterback decisions like I am doing above, but blind freddy could see that many of the decisions made were expensive ones and ones that will stay expensive for quite a while to come.

[Ken Borough]

Perhaps it's now very apparent why JB did not get the top gig at Qantas? With the cash at Qantas, what would he have done?

[Going Boeing]

Snakecharma, my memory recalls that the B777's (6 firm on order+ more options) were in service prior to JB's appointment and I thought that Godfrey had arranged the lease of the two ex-Emirates A330's as well.

Happy to be proved wrong by someone with a better memory than myself.

[Snakecharma]

Going Boeing, correct, I think four of the 777's were in service when he arrived, Godfrey had nothing to do with the ex EK 330's. In fact one of JB's stated aims on joining was to get rid of the 777's. He considered them too big, but sanity prevailed and he was convinced to let it run though rumour has it he did give it an internal drop dead date to improve otherwise it was for the chopping block. He cancelled the 6th firm aircraft and the options, I am assuming in a deal for more 737's.

I should have been more precise with my wording, Virgin domestic had 2 types before the change in CEO, the 777 operation, at that time, was considered separate.

[Mach2point7]

The thing I don't understand is that JB saw at close range all the mistakes that Ansett made with their Noah's Ark approach to fleet planning. Repeating the same mistakes only ten years later is perplexing. How on earth did his board let him do that ?

[galdian]

SO JB's not the Messiah.....just a naughty boy??

Cheers. :ok:

[coaldemon]

snakecharma is correct.

[TBM-Legend]

Reading peoples mail in the mail room doesn't qualify one to lead an airline>>

Reading this suggest some major structural and business decisions went haywire. I note that those who created the "bad scene with too many types" are now the ones attempting to fix it!
http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/08/borghetti-says-lower-fares-not-the-only-answer-to-boosting-demand/

[Sicofit]

The point I was making,is it was supposed to be a LCC.🛩

[TBM-Legend]

It is Tigerair..

[LeeJoyce]

Maybe time for a wage freeze... Bastards...

[Goat Whisperer]

Pilot wages have been frozen this year. No end to EBA negotiations in sight.

[Higs]

My advice to anyone in Virgin is to hope for the best but plan for the worst. Have a plan B. Ask any expat.

[Progress Wanchai]

Owned by Arab and competing Chinese companies, neither of whom are known for their empathy towards their workers. Fingers crossed a right wing Australian government with a 1 seat majority doesn't hide under the covers forever. I also believe in flying pigs and Santa..

Unfortunately employees will be mere pawns in what is going to play out here. Executives looking for a parachute and legacy to hang their resume on won't be doing more than the bare miminum for people they are supposed to be leading. Corporate greed 101. Make the employees pay for the restructuring costs that was required due to management's incompetence.

[Madame Bandit]

What Progress said. Summed the entire debacle up in minimal words.
Well said sweetie. :ok::p

[XPT]

10% off all domestic fares til 30 June 2017

[wheels_down]

So what? It's just a marketing strategy.

They all do it. Etihad/Emirates have live codes.

What are you trying to say BNEA320?

[AerialPerspective]

It's not often that I'm right, but.............troll back a few years ago on these threads when JB first took over and started his dramatic restructure. He was lauded like the second coming of Jesus Christ. The threads prove it - he was the hero.


The more I read all the huge masses of praise the more I said "I'll call him the saviour when the Virgin group returns a profit. Let's wait and see how this goes before we make JB Sir JB."


Things on here seem a bit different now!
Trevor, spot on... unfortunately the industry in many cases now is headed not by people with leadership ability combined with operational background (which despite the rhetoric JB does not have, he never worked on check in in his life or at an airport regardless of what he says publicly)... and is instead dominated by people who speak are as slick as a bad lawyer and use all the current management jargon (Don Watson is an unsung national hero...) - some of the gems that I hear every day are "Going Forward", "What's happening in your SPACE", "Now that's the discussion AROUND the restructure, let's talk about the communication PIECE", "REACH OUT to your manager" and other such nonsense that feebly attempts to pass for English these days... it's all completely sanitised and meaningless twaddle... read anyone of their announcements and I defy anyone to determine what they actually are saying in amongst the jumble of reaching out and going forward crap. There is probably a reason why JB didn't get the QF gig and I think that's probably becoming obvious now... salesperson unfortunately who appears to simply not be able to run a profitable business... I read his book also and thought it was embarrassing. I was around in some of those times and I'm not convinced there isn't an element of salesperson rhetoric in their also, I thought particularly ordinary his comments about VH-OJH - not the words a leader would write about the competitor... I contrast that with the likes of Rod Eddington who ordered newspapers off AN aircraft the day after QF1 overran the runway at BKK because that's what a leader does, that's professional... casting aspersions over the repairs to the aircraft afterward is the act of a less than professional person in my view. I'm glad I didn't buy shares.

[AerialPerspective]

Actually Borghetti cancelled the remaining orders for 777's when he turned up (if I remember correctly there were firm orders and options for up to 13 777's) and then introduced the 330 and the ATR72-500 and 600, bought Skywest for an outrageously inflated price thereby introducing 3 more types to the mix and then bought tiger, so I think the blame for fleet complexity can be fairly pointed directly at JB.

Virgin had two types when he turned up - the 737 and the ejet. He gave the 170's away only to replace them with ATR's which cost as much if not more to run.

Not only did he add fleet complexity of a colossal scale, he did so at premium prices because he had to have it "now".

It is easy to arm chair quarterback decisions like I am doing above, but blind freddy could see that many of the decisions made were expensive ones and ones that will stay expensive for quite a while to come.
Exactly... and it's almost as if part of it was to build up an airline that was like QF so he could prove something, QF have A330s so VA had to have them... forget that QF's A330s were practically free due to the delays in the A380... forget that QF has the scale to properly hedge fuel costs and to achieve the economies necessary for amortisation of fleet costs... I guess that's why from what I hear, he's apparently referred to in the management corridors at QF as 'Mini Me'

[AerialPerspective]

Owned by Arab and competing Chinese companies, neither of whom are known for their empathy towards their workers. Fingers crossed a right wing Australian government with a 1 seat majority doesn't hide under the covers forever. I also believe in flying pigs and Santa..

Unfortunately employees will be mere pawns in what is going to play out here. Executives looking for a parachute and legacy to hang their resume on won't be doing more than the bare miminum for people they are supposed to be leading. Corporate greed 101. Make the employees pay for the restructuring costs that was required due to management's incompetence.
True, you can see why it's gone the way it has, also judging by the people he brought in - with only one or two exceptions they were not the best in the industry but rather people he'd worked with before...