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SASless
3rd Aug 2016, 14:23
600 more Armed Police in London?

How many is that now for a Police Force that is bragged upon for saying there is no need for Police to be "armed"?

So much for a "Gun Free Society" it would seem.


Hundreds more armed police patrol London in bid to confront terror | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/03/hundreds-more-armed-police-patrol-london-in-bid-to-confront-terror.html)

wiggy
3rd Aug 2016, 14:30
It may be a sad but inevitable drift away from traditional British policing but given the declared numbers it's still not exactly an overwhelming presence, certainly when compared with other parts of the world.... whilst police carrying guns is a common sight in some places in and around London (has been for a few years) I certainly wouldn't describe the city as being an "armed camp"...

ETOPS
3rd Aug 2016, 14:39
SASless

The Metropolitan Police Service employs 31,000 officers and thus this 600 represents 1.9% of the total.

SASless
3rd Aug 2016, 14:41
How many Plod are "carrying" but done in a manner that one does not know?

I like the way Basil thinks!:ok:

That is 1.9% in addition to how many?

Tis a slippery slope you know....once you start down that hill no telling where it leads.:oh:

Hopefully it will begin to shorten Response Times when the attacks occur as they surely are bound to happen again.

sitigeltfel
3rd Aug 2016, 14:44
Sticking plaster/knee jerk/tokenism. By the time that lot arrive on scene, dozens, maybe hundreds will already be dead.

Unless the problem is tackled at source, and hard, they are pissing into the wind.

jolihokistix
3rd Aug 2016, 14:49
To be read in conjunction with the Notting thread...(?)

Cazalet33
3rd Aug 2016, 14:50
The Metropolitan Police Service employs 31,000 officers and thus this 600 represents 1.9% of the total.

Actually, the figure of armed cops in London is now 2,800, ie 9%, not 2%. Taking into account the fact that many on the strength of 31,000 are desk warriors, the American-style militarised proportion is much greater than that.

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/FE12/production/_90624056_image1.jpg

Tankertrashnav
3rd Aug 2016, 15:03
I remember when I was on a school exchange to Lyon in 1963 seeing gendarmes with sub machine guns standing guard as cash was being delivered to a bank from an armoured van. I was totally amazed, as i'd never seen anything like that before.

Seems like its just taken us 50 years or so to catch up. This doesn't worry me at all - I also like the idea of the bikes - the fastest car in the world is totally useless in gridlocked streets.

Unless the problem is tackled at source, and hard, they are pissing into the wind.


Yeah, yeah, great idea - but how?

Hempy
3rd Aug 2016, 15:07
A couple of years ago I headed down to the local convenience at about 9pm to fetch some milk for the Lady of the house's evening cup of tea. Within 200m of our abode, I unfortunately struck a Kangaroo that, with its mate, had ventured into urban areas looking for a bite to eat (the drought was on at the time).

Said Roo wasn't dead as such, but was obviously disabled in that it it just lay there looking at its legs that didn't work anymore.

Sans milk, I returned home and phoned the local constabulary. To their credit, they arrived post haste advising me that such a call out was common place lately. Said officer then removed his .38 from his holster and despatched said 'roo from its mortal coil. So we thought.

Reloading from the headlights of my car I asked the officer 'I suppose you are going to need to account for that round?'

'Nah' he says, 'they're pretty good these days'.

Meanwhile, assistant plod is looking at the deceased and says 'hey boss, he isn't dead'.

'Well finish him off!' says plod.

Assistant plod aims down the barrel, and his mobile phone rings. With one hand he answers the phone.

'Yeah, g'day mate, just hang on a tic *bang*. What's going on?'

It felt like I was in New Orleans! (except for the kangaroo part)

Toadstool
3rd Aug 2016, 15:19
It felt like I was in New Orleans! (except for the kangaroo part)

What colour was the Kangaroo? :E

Hempy
3rd Aug 2016, 15:30
An eastern grey. Didn't do as much damage to my front left guard as a big red might have, but at least he wasn't black..

funfly
3rd Aug 2016, 15:35
Hempy, I think you missed the point!

Hempy
3rd Aug 2016, 15:44
Maybe. The point being horses for courses? I dunno!

If plod needs firearms to dispatch injured wildlife, fair enough. If plod needs firearms to protect innocent people, fair enough. If plod needs firearms to protect him(her)selves own lives, fair enough too.

It's all a matter of society. I'm just happy that that the only round my local plod is likely to fire is into a Kangaroo with a broken back.

ETOPS
3rd Aug 2016, 16:55
Actually, the figure of armed cops in London is now 2,800, ie 9%

And thus these extra 1.9% makes a total of 10.9% armed officers. Still a long way from an "armed camp"

Cazalet33
3rd Aug 2016, 17:06
Far too much like America for my liking, especially as we are talking about the Met which has a recognised problem of institutionalised racism.

The creeping Americanisation of the British way of life is not a good thing.

Sallyann1234
3rd Aug 2016, 17:14
What the Met are doing is NOT the same as generally armed forces in the US and other countries. Gun crimes in the UK are generally very low and don't need a routinely armed force.
This latest arming strategy is a specific response to terrorist threats. One has to make a judgement through as to how much it can actually prevent attacks and how much is for reassurance of the public (which of course is a valid aim in itself)

G-CPTN
3rd Aug 2016, 17:20
I recall encountering 'openly armed' police at railway stations during the era of the IRA bomb attacks in Britain.
Do they still patrol airports?

Krystal n chips
3rd Aug 2016, 17:25
" How many is that now for a Police Force that is bragged upon for saying there is no need for Police to be "armed"?


Obviously, this being your only interest in life, the emotional toil of reading about this increase has taken it's toll.....see underlined above.

Whilst it is disconcerting to see more visible armed police on London's streets, and possibly elsewhere in time, there is a somewhat obvious reason with the increase in terrorist activity as to why they are there. Despite your invariably flawed grasp of the facts, I think it's fair to say you won't be seeing armed police in Little Snottington on the Wold as a matter of course.

The UK police have been armed and carrying overt weapons for many years, there's nothing new about this and the UK population have long accepted this to be the case. Let's face it, any television police drama invariably requires armed response as an integral and the public are quite happy to be educated in this manner.

Maybe you, being able to "speak cop" should pop over for a few days and offer your own advice which would, I am sure, be treated and viewed accordingly.

So much for a "Gun Free Society" it would seem

Bingo ! we do have a gun free society....well done !

Cazalet33
3rd Aug 2016, 17:28
Do they still patrol airports?

Yes.

They've never done any bloody good, but they do strut their stuff.

They even had them in Glasgow when there really was a terrorist attempt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gMJBQoHJ4E

Pontius Navigator
3rd Aug 2016, 17:42
G-CPTN, armed police still patrol some airports. They may also patrol ferry terminals.

G-CPTN
3rd Aug 2016, 17:53
Thanks - I don't travel much nowadays.

Simplythebeast
3rd Aug 2016, 18:19
Because the terrorists will only strike in London?
The rest of the Country can rest assured that Ahmed and Co promise not to do anything naughty outside of London.

jolihokistix
3rd Aug 2016, 18:42
Any mass gatherings like Bastille Day in Nice coming up?

West Coast
3rd Aug 2016, 20:27
Cazalet33

The creeping Americanisation of the British way of life is not a good thing.


Those McDonalds aren't there just to support the US tourists. If the UK is being conquered, the locals are welcoming us with open arms.

Next, we will rid your lot of ending words with re instead of er. Most likely though it will end with the a cleric issuing a fatwa on the proper spelling.

SASless
3rd Aug 2016, 20:45
When I saw a refrigerated cooler filled with Budweiser behind a Pub Bar....even I knew British culture such as it is was over.:(

West Coast
3rd Aug 2016, 20:53
Was the beer cold or room temperature?

Gertrude the Wombat
3rd Aug 2016, 21:32
When I saw a refrigerated cooler filled with Budweiser behind a Pub Bar....even I knew British culture such as it is was over.:(
Once Upon A Time I worked somewhere where we had American business visitors from time to time. This was the 1980s with a lot less travelling going on than does now, and mostly they wanted to experience genuine English food and drink, not having had any before.


Most of them were polite about the warm beer for the "traditional English drink" - they had, after all, been expecting it. Some of them were, though, rather confused when we took them to a curry house for the "traditional English food".

SASless
3rd Aug 2016, 21:43
Actually....about the same....I do not believe they had the "Cooler" turned on due to the cost of Electricity probably exceeded any possible profit from the Cans of Bud. But it sure did make a colorful display unlike all those drab brown Bottles that you cannot see through like with American Beer.

American Beer....Canoe....Water....and fornication springs to Mind.

The British do understand how to make excellent Beer.....or we do not!

Metro man
4th Aug 2016, 00:17
So the ban on handguns after the Dunblane massacre failed to end gun crime, how surprising.

The police need to be adequately equipped to deal with any situation that presents itself, a whistle and truncheon won't cut it anymore. Fanatical terrorists armed with automatic weapons could be the new norm.

Remember the driver of the truck in the Nice attack which killed 84 and injured 308 only stopped when he was shot dead.

pattern_is_full
4th Aug 2016, 02:39
Sadly - looks like the extra troops were not in time (this occured after most British members were likely headed to bed):

One dead, several hurt in central London knife attack - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36972126)

As of this writing, terror is neither confirmed nor ruled out - the morning may reveal more.

bcgallacher
4th Aug 2016, 05:26
Metroman - No laws ever eliminated any crime but UK gun controls work. Gun deaths are in decline. The US with its lax gun laws has about 32000 gunshot deaths per year - including several hundred children. If the UK had the same rate we would have about 6000 gunshot deaths per year - we have less than 50. Have a look at the figures for people shot by US police and the figures for US policemen shot and ask yourself if that is the kind of society you want. Less than 10% of UK police are armed - the increase in armed police is to cope with a specific threat of terrorism not general criminality.

bcgallacher
4th Aug 2016, 05:39
Pattern is full - Yesterday in the US about 90 people were shot dead and about 180 wounded -perhaps all the armed US police were in MacDonalds or sleeping at the time.

Peter-RB
4th Aug 2016, 05:46
Armed Cops do walk round Manchester Pax Airport, trouble is in my view they are always like Siamese twins almost joined at the hip, anyone- bad-boy or terrorist knowing his/her stuff and trained to act against them would have an easy job of negating their presence....? initially until the bangs were found to be the real deal..! IMO

Krystal n chips
4th Aug 2016, 05:51
Interesting lead item last night offering perspectives from the public and professionals alike.

http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up

Simplythebeast
4th Aug 2016, 06:03
Well? Where were they?
ONE DEAD AND SEVERAL INJURED IN POSSIBLE LONDON TERROR ATTACK - The Sun
https://apple.news/AAyn_ZHDEQfe0sYov9_f1sw

ORAC
4th Aug 2016, 06:03
PIF, 19 year old in custody (tazered, not shot), mental health a factor. Went on a rampage with a knife, one dead, 5 injured. Motive currently unknown.

Simplythebeast
4th Aug 2016, 06:23
Mental Health.....mmmmm I think that is BBC speak for terrorism. I think we should run a sweepstake for the assailants name, Ive a strange feeling it wont be Trevor.

sitigeltfel
4th Aug 2016, 06:27
Anyone who believes in Sky Fairies is not firing on all cylinders.

ORAC
4th Aug 2016, 06:38
STB, not the BBC, that's from the police. Terrorism not eliminated, but I'm just not rushing to judgement. Highly possible it's a lone wolf attack, but not the only possibility.

".....Mark Rowley, the Metropolitan police assistant commissioner, said the motive for the attack was not clear:

Early indications suggest mental health is a significant factor in this case and that is one major line of inquiry. But of course at this stage we should keep an open mind regarding motive and consequently terrorism as a motivation remains but one line of inquiry for us to explore.

Simplythebeast
4th Aug 2016, 06:45
That is true sitigeltfel, also true that the methods used by Islamic terrorists include mobilising weak witted and mentaly challenged individuals who are easily taken in by their bull, so there is often a correlation between terrorism and mental health.

Planemike
4th Aug 2016, 09:48
I do not want to see the Police in UK armed. The bullets from their guns kill just like those from any other shooters. Keep our streets gun free. Terrorism will never be defeated by military means..........

Sallyann1234
4th Aug 2016, 10:00
Interesting to see that the knife attacker in Russell Square was brought down by a Taser. One wonders how many rounds would have been expended in his direction in the US?

skydiver69
4th Aug 2016, 10:16
Even with the 600 officers mentioned in the news, the number of armed officers in London is still lower than it was in 2009. It also means that the number of PCs available for other duties such as response or neighbourhood policing will have reduced by 600 as we are not talking about additional new officers but armed officers recruited from the ranks of current officers.

The number of armed officers around the country has also declined since 2009 and the start of austerity related cuts.

We are far from having routinely armed police and with current budget and PC number restraints, we are getting further away from that point.

G-CPTN
4th Aug 2016, 10:53
19 year old Norwegian national of Somali origin.

maliyahsdad2
4th Aug 2016, 11:02
Well? Where were they?
ONE DEAD AND SEVERAL INJURED IN POSSIBLE LONDON TERROR ATTACK - The Sun
https://apple.news/AAyn_ZHDEQfe0sYov9_f1sw
They arrived 5 mins after the first call. They are not some kind of minority report outfit that can get there before the crime is committed.

SASless
4th Aug 2016, 11:07
Prop....I disagree with your comment about Taser's being a "Good" Weapon for use against a Knife.

It would at best be the "Next Best Weapon" behind a Firearm.

The reason I say that is the risk to the Police Officer comes in having to close with the Perp in order to effectively engage the Taser.

In the right circumstances I would agree with you but as an all cases solution....not at all.

In the past i posted photos of the result of an Officer here in this Country that attempted to deal with a determined Perp armed with a Knife....and the Photos were deemed too graphic......I am thinking it was like 2500 Stitches and a couple of hours being worked on by Surgeons it took to close up all the incisions the poor guy suffered when the Perp got to him....and cut him four ways. Those being wide, long, deep, and continuous.

For Officer Safety....Bad Guy pulls out a Knife.....Plod should pull out a Gun and use it if necessary and do so from a safe distance. In the USA....Twenty Feet is considered the minimum distance from the Knife. But then all of our Police are Armed as compared to the British Police.

I take my Hat off to the British Police who go up against armed Perps without the benefit of a Firearm....that takes a lot of courage and presents a lot of risk for them when they do.

skydiver69
4th Aug 2016, 11:20
Most British police don't even have a taser so the average PC dealing with a knife wielding nutter would do with with an extendable piece of aluminium and a can of Captor, hence some 'funny' videos on YouTube of bobbies using bin lids to shield themselves whilst waiting for armed PCs to arrive at a scene.

NutLoose
4th Aug 2016, 11:23
It was an American sadly killed by a Norwegian Somali

London attack: Norwegian Somali behind stabbing spree - News from Al Jazeera (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/08/london-knife-attack-mental-health-major-factor-160804053538274.html)

You can stick all the police you want in London, you will just drive the nutters out to attack softer targets in the UK.

SASless
4th Aug 2016, 11:42
From the "Express" today.....


"Their swift response undoubtedly helped to prevent more people from getting injured.

Six Minutes Response Time reported.

Not bad in reality....but what happens when it is a couple of Gun Men armed with AK-47's and Hand Grenades smuggled into the UK by ISIS operatives?

Don't think it will happen?

CoodaShooda
4th Aug 2016, 11:51
I've been in London since Monday on my first ever visit.
Walking around 12- 16 Kms a day.
Haven't seen an armed policeman as described in the article.
Just the common or garden plod - marching four arrested persons from Waterloo station, directing traffic around Piccadilly Circus which had been closed by a snatch and grab raid gone wrong and three unmarked cars traveling in high speed convoy with lights and sirens going.
The news says a 19yo male stabbed several people last night, killing one.
No signs of even mild concern on the faces around me. Life in the city seems unaffected.
I must admit to not having had any reason for concern for my or my wife's safety while we have been here. It's hard to adopt the cautious posture recommended in our government's travellers' advisories.
Off to Toulouse and Paris in a few days. Am interested to see how the higher security status affects life on the streets.
I've actually felt safer here than visiting our local supermarket back home and running the gauntlet of unwashed long grassers hanging around the bottle shop.

PS. I'd put my complacency down to the probability that the security chaps and chapesses are doing a bloody good job.

Cazalet33
4th Aug 2016, 12:21
I've actually felt safer here than visiting our local supermarket back home and running the gauntlet of unwashed long grassers hanging around the bottle shop

Ah, so you're originally from Glasgow then.

Ancient Observer
4th Aug 2016, 12:22
Cooda,
spend shedloads of money here, please. Our economy needs it.

ORAC
4th Aug 2016, 14:13
Grauniad, Thursday afternoon:

"....A 19-year-old Norwegian national of Somali origin is being questioned by police after a woman from the US was killed and another five people were injured in a stabbing attack in Russell Square in central London

Police believe the attack was “spontaneous” and triggered by mental health issues, with victims selected at random. The Metropolitan police assistant commissioner, Mark Rowley, said: “We’ve found no evidence of radicalisation that would suggest the man in our custody is in anyway motivated by terrorism.”

The suspect, who moved to the UK in 2002, has been interviewed and officers have spoken to his family........"

Effluent Man
4th Aug 2016, 15:03
I have to travel to Devon next week and this involves crossing London. I always do the cooking when I stay with friends as a thank you for their hospitality. This year I intend to take my big kitchen knife in my travel bag. Highly illegal I know but faced with the possibility of being able to defend either myself or some other hapless traveller or simply watching it is a risk worth taking.

If I get stopped then I will say to the CPS : Good luck in your search for twelve jurors willing to convict.

wiggy
4th Aug 2016, 15:17
Off to Toulouse and Paris in a few days. Am interested to see how the higher security status affects life on the streets.

Don't lose any sleep as far as Toulouse is concerned; according to my resident expert it's nil real change. As always these days there are armed police/Gendarmes around but nothing really much out of the norm.

The main grumble locally seems to be that sadly elsewhere in southern France some of the big fireworks displays associated with the larger festivals in August have been cancelled.

Art E. Fischler-Reisen
4th Aug 2016, 15:22
They even had them in Glasgow when there really was a terrorist attempt.

If Billy Connolly is a terrorist, then why didn't they get him already?

flydive1
4th Aug 2016, 15:33
I have to travel to Devon next week and this involves crossing London. I always do the cooking when I stay with friends as a thank you for their hospitality. This year I intend to take my big kitchen knife in my travel bag. Highly illegal I know but faced with the possibility of being able to defend either myself or some other hapless traveller or simply watching it is a risk worth taking.

If I get stopped then I will say to the CPS : Good luck in your search for twelve jurors willing to convict.

So you think it would have been wrong for the police to stop and arrest the above 19 years old for carrying a knife? (before he started the attack)

sitigeltfel
4th Aug 2016, 15:37
The main grumble locally seems to be that sadly elsewhere in southern France some of the big fireworks displays associated with the larger festivals in August have been cancelled.

Not just fireworks, but many other events such as concerts have been called off due to the risks associated with terrorism and large crowds.

There doesn't seem to be any pattern as some events are still going ahead, while a few kms away others are scrubbed.

Some Foreign Legionnaires have been seen patrolling here, possibly from Aubagne or the engineers base at St Christol.

wiggy
4th Aug 2016, 15:47
Not just fireworks, but many other events such as concerts have been called off due to the risks associated with terrorism and large crowds.

I saw some grumbles about the inconsistency of this on lunchtime TV the other day. It does seem certain festivals have pulled the plug ( with mayors saying if police say they aren't keen, no insurance coverage = no event despite the mayor's and populations wishes to make a point about keeping calm an carrying on.).

Our small scale local stuff hasn't been effected...which meant the local authorities didn't cancel the much trumpeted Johnny Hallyday concert a few weeks back.. I bet they wish they had now........

150.000 euros de subvention : le concert de la discorde de Johnny Hallyday - Closermag.fr (http://www.closermag.fr/article/150.000-euros-de-subvention-le-concert-de-la-discorde-de-johnny-hallyday-632731)

Effluent Man
4th Aug 2016, 16:03
Fly dive, I strongly disapprove of weapon carrying of any sort. But it seems that the powers that be are incapable/unwilling to protect their own citizens. It therefore falls upon us to do the job ourselves. And unless some [email protected]@@wit intervenes my knife will only be used to make a Boeuf Bourguinon.

NutLoose
4th Aug 2016, 16:07
I think this is a right move

France 24 joins French media in halting publication of terrorists' photos - France 24 (http://www.france24.com/en/20160727-france-24-stop-publishing-photographs-terrorists-media)

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/27/french-media-to-stop-publishing-photos-and-names-of-terrorists

NutLoose
4th Aug 2016, 16:09
And this is a wrong one

https://youtu.be/jkfRkR1Pqag

It should be the migrant adapting to the culture, not the other way around, and if they cannot, then they should not be there in the first place.

galaxy flyer
4th Aug 2016, 16:52
Carrying a kitchen knife in luggage is illegal? Really?

GF

Effluent Man
4th Aug 2016, 16:57
Grey area, you can argue that you need it for making Boeuf Bourguinon. Probably enough to deter the CPS wimps fro risking their conviction rate. Anyway, panic over, he's Norwegian. So now we have to watch out for people in multi coloured patterned sweaters and matching wooly hats and carrying skis.

Hempy
4th Aug 2016, 17:03
1 person dead, 5 wounded.

How many killed outright in the USA today?

Krystal n chips
4th Aug 2016, 17:06
I would be more concerned about this actually, in contrast to a terrorist attack that is, should I have the misfortune to actually have to visit the dump.

Pavement 'explodes' in Blackfriars injuring woman - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36978422)

Effluent Man
4th Aug 2016, 17:06
Precisely the reason why the authorities are attempting to portray it as a mad criminal act rather than what it is. If people accept that argument then it's "nothing to do with us guv".

Ancient Mariner
4th Aug 2016, 17:07
Grey area, you can argue that you need it for making Boeuf Bourguinon. Probably enough to deter the CPS wimps fro risking their conviction rate. Anyway, panic over, he's Norwegian. So now we have to watch out for people in multi coloured patterned sweaters and matching wooly hats and carrying skis.
You better watch out, we carry.....Akevitt.:eek:
Per

G-CPTN
4th Aug 2016, 17:14
Carrying knives:- the law (https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives).

G-CPTN
4th Aug 2016, 17:16
I would be more concerned about this actually, in contrast to a terrorist attack that is, should I have the misfortune to actually have to visit the dump.

Pavement 'explodes' in Blackfriars injuring woman - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36978422)
Exploding pavements 'put lives at risk' as 40 incidents occur in the last year (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33988957).

SASless
4th Aug 2016, 17:17
How does One get a Kitchen Knife from Store to Home?

Buy a Permit from the Plod?

G-CPTN
4th Aug 2016, 17:20
You can 'carry a knife in public with good reason'.

2008, Farnborough Airshow.
A retired British surgeon, living in Canada, had travelled via Switzerland - where he had seen and bought a Swiss Army knife 'for sentimental reasons', as it was like the one that he had had as a child'.

During the screening check at the entrance the Police decided that this knife must be surrendered as it consituted 'carrying a dangerous weapon'.
No amount of reasoning would excuse him and they threatened to prosecute him if he didn't give up his 'weapon'.

Effluent Man
4th Aug 2016, 17:22
As a deterrent to nutty cross country skiers?

Tankertrashnav
4th Aug 2016, 23:46
Carrying a kitchen knife in luggage is illegal? Really?

As G-CPTN's link makes clear, it certainly isn't. When I was selling militaria I had a clear notice in my shop that I would not sell bayonets to anyone under the age of 18. When I sold them to adults I made sure they were very well wrapped in bubble wrap and then in a large paper bag taped round it. I warned any buyers not to unwrap the bayonet while they were taking it home. I checked with my local police who assured me that neither I nor my customers would be breaking the law in these circumstances. If they started waving a 15" 19th century bayonet around in the street it would, however, be a different matter!

Incidentally I am genuinely sorry that the lady who was murdered by this nutcase was a US citizen. I do hope this will not deter any Americans planning a visit in the near future.

bcgallacher
5th Aug 2016, 07:29
Tankertrashnav - This incident should not deter US citizens fro visiting the UK - the US homicide rate is four times that of the U.K. So an American is actually safer in the U K than at home.

Effluent Man
5th Aug 2016, 07:46
I will cocoon my twelve inch carving knife in bubble wrap, give the CPS a run for their money. Of course the chance of a 64 year old white man being apprehended on the tube for carrying a knife is not much more than the chance of encountering a machete wielding Norwegian.

ATNotts
5th Aug 2016, 08:00
Because the terrorists will only strike in London?
The rest of the Country can rest assured that Ahmed and Co promise not to do anything naughty outside of London.
Exactly what I thought; and typical of the London-centric UK! What will happen when some deranged IS supporter runs amok through the streets of Birmingham or Manchester? Trumpton police force running after them waving their collective truncheons and shouting "stop thief" and blowing their whistles?

After the last few weeks it ought to be clear that, far from attacking just capital cities the terrorists are turning their attention not only to secondary cities, but to small comparatively rural towns.

ORAC
5th Aug 2016, 08:50
Well it is the Met Police - which other city would they spend their money on? We don't have a single UK unitary police force - or budget.

Perhaps the question should be what are the other UK police forces spending their money on?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_Terrorism_Command

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_and_structure_of_the_Metropolitan_Police_Servic e

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7279/CBP-7279.pdf

maliyahsdad2
5th Aug 2016, 09:04
Maybe the other police forces are too busy picking up the chips that fall off northern shoulders all the time.

rustle
5th Aug 2016, 09:19
Exactly what I thought; and typical of the London-centric UK! What will happen when some deranged IS supporter runs amok through the streets of Birmingham or Manchester?


Ah yes: Birmingham and Manchester. The Cote d'Azur of the UK. Manc cops can just deploy a feral 12 year old to deal with the threat.

SASless
5th Aug 2016, 11:35
BGC,

At home....I know where NOT to go and when NOT to go there.

Not so in the UK but I have to assume just as in the USA...large urban areas inhabited by some unassimilated individuals late at night when alone might not be the safe thing in the UK either.

Oddly, I am more at ease in my own country than I am in any large urban area in the UK despite your concern over the Murder Rate.

Also, if you know anything about Murder in the USA (after Years of being told shed loads of Statistics and other Facts here at JB)....I am far less at risk due to my lack of Criminal Record, lack of Gang Membership, Advanced Age, lack of Drug use, being upper middle classed, and lack of Skin Pigmentation.


I suppose the same holds true in the UK.

Sallyann1234
5th Aug 2016, 12:00
Personally I'm glad that the rest of the UK isn't as heavily armed as London. The chances of a terrorist attack in Auchtermuchty or Zennor are so small as not to be concerned about. It's about as worrying as flying - you are more likely to be killed crossing the road .

Let's elevate one or two fingers to Daesh and get on with living.

Ancient Mariner
5th Aug 2016, 12:12
They armed the Norwegian police after an alleged terrorist threat.
So far they have mostly been shooting themselves, their colleagues and office walls and paraphernalia.
I'd rather they ceased carrying, for their sakes. :E
Per

SASless
5th Aug 2016, 12:17
Seems the Flying Squad got into a small affray with some Armed Robbers who were using Axes, Machetes, and other edged weapons....seemed a desperate struggle ensued and officers were injured....one severely.

I don't know about you...but going up against someone armed with an Axe or Machete with a Short Stick and One's Good Looks is not the way it should be.


https://www.facebook.com/OnePoliceUK/?fref=nf

Paracab
5th Aug 2016, 22:57
Plenty of coppers I've spoken to feel Taser is overrated as to be effective it needs to be within close range, they've got one shot and both barbs must make good contact. All of that needs to come together for it to happen. After that without a firearm its either baton, pepper spray or spit at them. I suppose you could lob your now useless Taser at the perp but that may be tricky if you're taking incoming.

Our bobbies must, must be armed, not all of them perhaps but certainly a good few. Even 'regular' firearms units are deployed to non-terror (usually) threats far more often than you might think, sometimes several times a shift. None of them start a shift with shooting someone on the to do list, just the possibly list.

mickjoebill
6th Aug 2016, 00:56
The new rapid response trail bikes are the sharp end of a complete security net (CCTVs and choppers can't kill the villain)

But it reminds me of being buzzed by machine gun toting "police" on trail bikes in Chile in the '90s :)

Mickjoebill

SASless
6th Aug 2016, 01:14
Paracab,

Current Police Training Standards here in the USA identify a Twenty Foot Minimum Safe Distance from a Suspect wielding a Knife. That is the distance that experience has shown that a determined assailant can cover in the time it takes an average Officer to identify the threat, react, draw and fire a Handgun and stop the Attack.

No use of the Taser is considered in that scenario.....just the use of Deadly Force.

That assumes open ground, no obstructions or other barriers between the Officer and the Suspect.

For those who need "Safe Spaces" do not open this link....as it contains very graphic photos of a what happens when a Police Officer elects to violate that training and protocol.

The Officer in question survived....but suffered gruesome wounds. The Flying Squad just had a similar occurrence with one of its Officers remaining in Hospital in Critical Condition.

I don't link these photos for gratuitous reasons...but to show those who have never dealt with the reality of Police work and genuine evil...what can happen to you if you drop your guard or make bad decisions.

Again....graphic photos of an actual wounding of a Police Officer who DID NOT USE DEADLY FORCE WHEN AUTHORIZED.

knife-wounds (http://fpk.homestead.com/knife-wounds.html)

Simplythebeast
6th Aug 2016, 02:40
Maybe the other police forces are too busy picking up the chips that fall off northern shoulders all the time.
Other Forces are struggling just to maintain enough officers for basic Policing tasks.
Its not a Northern thing, anywhere outside of central London will struggle when it comes to response times to a Terrorist incident.

Metro man
6th Aug 2016, 02:44
Back in the 1970s the Sweeney would easily have nicked twice their own number of villains, even if they were tooled up.

Coppers of that era were a different breed, none of today's political correctness. Hard drinking, sexist, racist, occasionally corrupt thief takers. In those days a PC was a Police Constable, a fingerprint check took a few days and cyber crime didn't exist.

"Get your trousers on, you're nicked" Jack Regan RIP

Kak Klaxon
6th Aug 2016, 06:07
Yes and what the Sweeny missed CI5 picked up in the Mark 2 Escort and Capri.

Krystal n chips
6th Aug 2016, 06:13
Since the use of the term "deadly force" seems prominent, and invariably "justified" ......we await the "justification" for this.....

Videos of deadly cop shooting show procedural errors, confusion over shots - Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-shooting-paul-oneal-video-met-20160805-story.html)

Derby station earlier this year....train arrives from Nottingham carrying xxx football yobs...sorry, supporters. You could smell the drink when the carriage doors opened and this was some way from the train as normal people were kept well back...one yob, despite being surrounded by Derbyshire / British Transport Police, decides to take a swing at an officer.....the thud as he hit the platform may have been recorded on the Richter scale....the combined weight of two other officers helping the first thereafter probably did. No matter, no guns or Tasers required.

CoodaShooda
6th Aug 2016, 07:07
Further observations from this "innocent abroad".

Did not see any armed police on the streets of London over 5 days, nor at Heathrow.
Mind you, the five unmarked police cars rocketing in convoy through the morning traffic suggested things are happening.

Fast forward a few hours to Toulouse and we are met at the airport by several, patrolling squads of heavily armed soldiers but no Customs Officers.

Both the taxi driver and the receptionist at the hotel assured us that Toulouse is quite safe to walk around "although possibly not after 2.00am". Neither, however, would like to visit Marseille or Lyons.

Stanwell
6th Aug 2016, 08:15
Having had a bit to do with the subject at hand...
The posts from Ancient Mariner (#87) and SASless (#91), are worth taking note of.

ORAC
6th Aug 2016, 16:45
I live in Brighton, St James's St. It's Pride weekend and the Street Party is in full swing, the street is packed from side to side, al the bars and shops with bands and music outside, a perfect target for any gay hating individual or group. Having wandered up and down the street (I get free wristbands as a resident), the only visible policing is a few community police, and their only visible weaponry are a couple of rainbow flags.

I would say that for all the attacks in Europe and the elevated risk warning level, the attitude here is a total lack of concern or worry.

Cazalet33
6th Aug 2016, 17:34
That's the way it should be, albeit with an Armed Response Team guzzling donuts in the local copshop canteen with their feet up and with freshly oiled H&K MP5s ready at hand.