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Peter-RB
2nd Aug 2016, 08:28
Read with an open mind and keep up with the string..!!

My best friends mate is a pal of one of Cameroon's best friends mates, we all met in a local pub near to me, where I was introduced by Rupert to said Cameroon, we all had a rare old time, I suppose all telling the greater and bigger and larger tales to out do the people from the Searth of the UK.. however my pal has told me he may be in line for a Cameroon Gong simply cos he tells the best jokes... and had the heartier and louder Larfs than the Southerners..what do ya think.... do I stand a chance of some crumbs falling from such a table?? I am very good at carrying bags..:E

Peter R-B( possibly OBE or better..hopefully or sooner please););)

sitigeltfel
2nd Aug 2016, 08:37
The honours system is now so tainted that I thought anyone with any self respect would run a mile if offered one.

G0ULI
2nd Aug 2016, 08:53
Anyone can be nominated for honours but you need someone on the inside who already has one to support your bid. Alternatively a £100k donation to the incumbent political party seems to be the going rate for a gong.

Tankertrashnav
2nd Aug 2016, 10:44
So it's actually got cheaper in real terms since Lloyd George was flogging them?

Around 1918, Gregory approached the Liberal Party to arrange payments to the party in exchange for peerages. He was actually one of many to do this. David Lloyd George hired him as a broker to gather funding for the United Constitutional Party Lloyd George was planning to form.

At the time, prices for honours ranged from £10,000 (£310,000 today) for a knighthood to £40,000 (£1.24 million) for a baronetcy.

(from Wiki article on Maundy Gregory)

charliegolf
2nd Aug 2016, 11:28
The honours system is now so tainted that I thought anyone with any self respect would run a mile if offered one.

That's the thinking of most right-minded people in the UK. Until they are offered a gong! Then it's different. For them, of course.

CG

Hempy
2nd Aug 2016, 11:41
*cough* 2005 English Ashes squad *cough*

Paul Collingwood OBE. 1 Test, 17 runs.

vctenderness
2nd Aug 2016, 13:00
I was in favour of the House of Lords until Blair.

He threw out the hereditary peers who, by and large, were well educated and had some skills and replaced them with his and Cheries mates.

Then it became farcical when lifelong Lords abolitionists such as scroungers Kinnock and thick as pigs **** Prestcott and useless objects like I'm a celebrity dingbat Paddick were elevated.

Now it's just a race to see who can shove as many Cronys as possible in to out do the other party.

I would now be truly happy to see the whole lot thrown out on the street and the place,turned into a museum.

Fareastdriver
2nd Aug 2016, 14:00
What have we got a House of Lords for. The Scottish Parliament doesn't bother with it, why should England?

MReyn24050
2nd Aug 2016, 14:07
Well said vctenderness. Could not agree more

Cazalet33
2nd Aug 2016, 18:34
The House of Lords is Britain's wankstain upon the concept of democracy.

The Nip
2nd Aug 2016, 19:15
I thought that Honours belonged to the 'people'. Not to the PM.
If the PM wants to thank or reward people then why not create a system that the Mil uses. Call it Prime Ministers Commendations.

Geordie_Expat
3rd Aug 2016, 13:54
What have we got a House of Lords for. The Scottish Parliament doesn't bother with it, why should England?

Are you seriously using the Scottish Parliament as a shining example ? It is because the do NOT have an equivalent that they get away with he stuff that they do !! As I'm sure you well know, the HoL is a reviewing/regulating chamber that, whilst it cannot overrule the Commons can make it think again.

Cazalet33
3rd Aug 2016, 14:58
the HoL is a reviewing/regulating chamber that, whilst it cannot overrule the Commons can make it think again.

It would have some legitimacy if it had some element of democracy.

radeng
3rd Aug 2016, 15:55
The concept of a second chamber is good. Non-elected has advantages, in that it is not so much of a case of

'I always voted at my party's call,
And I never had to think for myself at all'

(Gilbert & Sullivan, HMS Pinafore)

However, still quoting Gilbert

'The House of Lords throughout the war
Did nothing in particular
But did it very well'

and with the situation after 1911 where they cannot actually stop the Commons allows the majority party in the Commons under a three line Whip to do just what they like. That includes, if they so wish, negating democratic choice. In the final analysis, the only control could be the Monarch refusing to sign off an Act of Parliament.

So I like the idea of a non-elected H of L, and it would avoid filling the place with party hacks with no real idea. If you want to see what the party hack does, look up in history Alfred Barnes actions as Minister of Transport in the post WW2 Labour government - appointed because he had been a 'sound man' in the Co-operative movement. In fact, he was absolutely useless.

Kitbag
3rd Aug 2016, 16:03
Giving the Lords legitimacy by democracy automatically removes the supremacy of the Commons, especially if a PR system is used. In fact, using a PR system may introduce even more cronies into the chamber. The Commons knows this, which is why HoL reform, such as it is, has moved at the pace of a crippled snail with a big sack of heavy stuff on its back. Be careful what you wish for, more elections, more promises and a need to 'go down in the history books making a difference'.
In fact, using the Euro elections as a guide the likelihood would be the biggest representation would be UKIP followed by Labour, then Tories, with the minor parties making up the numbers. How much power, given the argument of democratic mandate, would you be happy handing to that assembly?

Cazalet33
3rd Aug 2016, 16:45
Incorporating an element of democracy into the Lords does not necessarily mean holding a beauty contest like in the lower House.

It could work like this:

Any MP who has won two consecutive elections should be given the opportunity, upon completion of his/her last elected term in the lower house, to take a seat in the upper house for a maximimum of half of the number of whole years he or she has served in the Commons, commencing subsequently at a time of his/her choosing.

Same salary as in the Commons. No expense account or other fiddles.

Abolish the Tony's Cronies system altogether.

Make all peers cross-benchers. De-emphasise the tribal crap.

Remove the nonsense of giving a peerage to the head Rabbi or the Archbishop of Dibley or whatever.

Exclude any candidates who have paid money to get where they are.

Harley Quinn
3rd Aug 2016, 17:32
Incorporating an element of democracy into the Lords does not necessarily mean holding a beauty contest like in the lower House.

It could work like this:

Any MP who has won two consecutive elections should be given the opportunity, upon completion of his/her last elected term in the lower house, to take a seat in the upper house for a maximimum of half of the number of whole years he or she has served in the Commons, commencing subsequently at a time of his/her choosing.

Same salary as in the Commons. No expense account or other fiddles.

Abolish the Tony's Cronies system altogether.

Make all peers cross-benchers. De-emphasise the tribal crap.

Remove the nonsense of giving a peerage to the head Rabbi or the Archbishop of Dibley or whatever.

Exclude any candidates who have paid money to get where they are.
So anyone in a safe seat is guaranteed tenure in HoL? That includes continuing to give them a salary. Have you really thought this through?
Naive to think there will be independence as the candidates you suggest will be immersed in the party system, and they will be professional politicians. One of the strengths of the current system has been the inclusion of non politicians. Actually I think having had a term in parliament should be an automatic exclusion for elevation to the HoL
Although I personally have no truck with organised religion, having the Lords Spiritual providing a more or less independent view is a good thing.

Cazalet33
3rd Aug 2016, 18:03
So anyone in a safe seat is guaranteed tenure in HoL?

Under my proposal, yes. But the 'tenure' is limited in time and is a reflection on their democratically expressed approval by the people, hence my suggestion that it should be limited to MPs who have had two successive successes at the polls.

Therein lies the nugget of democracy in my proposal.

Even a clown like Boris would qualify. Though not for life. Never for life. I think he'd be quite fun, especially if released from the yoke of that tribal shit.

sitigeltfel
4th Aug 2016, 18:12
Corbyn has thrown away all chance of making any political capital out of Cameron’s honours list by giving a peerage to Shami Chakrabarti in exchange for her anti-Semitism whitewash report.
Shami buried evidence (http://order-order.com/2016/08/03/buried-royall-report-incidents-of-antisemitic-behaviour-in-oulc/) of anti-Semitism at Oxford University Labour Club and recommended no lifetime ban for anti-Semites. For that Corbyn has made her a dame…

The Jewish charity CST reacts:“Shami Chakrabarti peerage is shameless kick in the teeth for all who put hope in her now wholly compromised Inquiry into Labour antisemitism”
Corbyn Gives Shami Peerage For Anti-Semitism Whitewash - Guido Fawkes Guido Fawkes (http://order-order.com/2016/08/04/corbyn-gives-shami-peerage-anti-semitism-whitewash/)

Buried Labour Anti-Semitism Report Leaked - Guido Fawkes Guido Fawkes (http://order-order.com/2016/08/03/buried-royall-report-incidents-of-antisemitic-behaviour-in-oulc/)

Nobody should be surprised.

Fairdealfrank
4th Aug 2016, 22:21
They're all bloody hypocrites, nobody should be surprised, it's par for the course.

Gertrude the Wombat
4th Aug 2016, 22:39
The concept of a second chamber is good. Non-elected has advantages ...
One recalls that period during the Thatcher regime when the last bastions of democracy in the country were the HoL and Red Ken.

radeng
4th Aug 2016, 23:03
I do agree with HQ about the 'Lords spiritual' being represented. I would even go so far as suggesting that the similarly placed individuals in religions other than the C of E should be, too.

Even if we admit the problems over the ages caused by the interpretation of different religions, the majority of them provide something of a moral code with which society can exist - although those that are irresponsible enough to want no birth control are attempting to destroy civilisation by overpopulation and starvation.

sitigeltfel
5th Aug 2016, 05:36
the last bastions of democracy in the country were the HoL and Red Ken.

Strange that you can link someone who stands up for terrorists the world over with democracy, but we know where you are comming from. :rolleyes:

cdtaylor_nats
5th Aug 2016, 06:43
One of the things sadly missing from the Scottish Parliament is a revising chamber.

I've always felt a bit ambiguous about the House of Lords, the unelected part worries me but having an elected HoL would just mean we had a clone of the HoC and we don't need another set of people who only know politics.

vctenderness
5th Aug 2016, 16:21
In my opinion this borders on criminal. If someone offered a H & S inspector, for instance, a place on the board if they gave a favourable report to the company that would be criminal.

Why is Corbyn able to promise 'The independent Chair' of a committee set up to investigate the Labour Party a peerage which is extremely valuable?

Of course it will be swept under the carpet while the media rage about Daves hairdresser getting some insignificant bauble.

I used to think this country was not corrupt.

G-CPTN
5th Aug 2016, 17:20
How many 'strikes' (think baseball) does Corbyn get?

vctenderness
5th Aug 2016, 20:01
If they ever want to remake the TV series about the accident prone and totally incompetent family in Some Mothers Do Have 'Em Corbyn would be a shoe in for Frank Spencer. Dianne Abbot could play Betty.

Cazalet33
7th Aug 2016, 14:32
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/08/06/0708-MATT-GALLERY-WEB-P1-large_trans++qVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8.png

Peter-RB
7th Aug 2016, 15:04
Good one Caz..!!;):D