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ORAC
26th Jul 2016, 08:52
Sky reporting 2 men have taken hostages in a church in northern France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36892785?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

ORAC
26th Jul 2016, 09:02
Now reported as 5 hostages - the parish priest, 2 nuns and 2 parishioners.

Town of Saint Etienne du Rouvray.

MrSnuggles
26th Jul 2016, 09:04
https://i.memecaptain.com/gend_images/p8HdRw.gif

SOPS
26th Jul 2016, 09:06
Here we go again....

ORAC
26th Jul 2016, 09:07
French SWAT on the scene, Reuters reporting the assailants have been "neutralised".

ORAC
26th Jul 2016, 09:18
Assailants were armed with knives, police obviously armed, shots heard, both assailants killed, reports of one hostage also possibly killed.

SLFguy
26th Jul 2016, 09:19
No dicking around by the police.

ORAC
26th Jul 2016, 09:30
One hostage, reported as the parish priest, confirmed as killed "with a blade". So not from friendly fire.

ORAC
26th Jul 2016, 09:39
Assailants reported as having attacked the church whilst the priest was celebrating daily Mass and cut his throat.

Anti-terrorist team has taken charge of the investigation and president Hollande is on his way to the scene. All indication now that this was an Islamist inspired attack.

SOPS
26th Jul 2016, 09:49
Very soon, surely, the Frecnh are going to rise up. How much of this s**t will they accept?

sitigeltfel
26th Jul 2016, 09:49
"Refugees are not dangerous, but in danger"

Pope Francis, Vatican 29th May 2016

DroneDog
26th Jul 2016, 09:57
BBC News headline ....probably

"Two innocent Syrians killed by French Police while attending church".

HeartyMeatballs
26th Jul 2016, 09:58
Despite many a luvvie publically (Geldoff, Sturgeon for example) promising to take in refugees, the pope is the one and only person who actually offered a place to refugees to actually follow up on his promise and give shelter to a few refugee families. Can't say fairer than that. Yet now a catholic priest had been murdered.

sitigeltfel
26th Jul 2016, 10:13
Despite many a luvvie publically (Geldoff, Sturgeon for example) promising to take in refugees, the pope is the one and only person who actually offered a place to refugees to actually follow up on his promise and give shelter to a few refugee families. Can't say fairer than that. Yet now a catholic priest had been murdered.

Not strictly true. He flew them to Italy on his plane then handed them to a lay charity outwith the Vatican.

If it was anyone else, it would be called people trafficking.

Peter-RB
26th Jul 2016, 10:20
We need Politicians who will stop prating around, get the coalition of EU armies and the Brits to mount a new Crusade,

take all the luvvies and the Anti Establishment brigade to be the people to try and reason with this Middle Eastern Inspired war against the Christians or the Northern parts of the Hemisphere, give them two days to reason , then Blast hell and Damnation out of all of them ..

Time is sacred to many, time will wait for No Man, the Timer is ticking down, the well spoken and so called elite Politicos must be wetting themselves at the prospect of Civil action... what will be the final spark...then sadly it must only end when all the bad boys are no longer moving.... We cannot tolerate this piecemeal dissembling of our civilisation...

HeartyMeatballs
26th Jul 2016, 10:29
Still. El papa did more than most. His heart was in the right place. He reached out to Muslims in need and helped. He didn't just make an empty promise to popularise himself with the huggies.

Remind me what Islam has done for those of its own people in desperate need? Very little. Which is why Syrians flee west and not to the Islamic east as they know they'll get zero help. Not even from the fabulously wealthy middle eastern countries.

Machrihanish
26th Jul 2016, 10:59
He reached out to Muslims in need and helped.

The priest was 7 times 12 years old when he was called up.

flyhardmo
26th Jul 2016, 11:02
We need Politicians who will stop prating around, get the coalition of EU armies and the Brits to mount a new Crusade,

Such as bombing Iraq, Syria, Libya and assisting in bombing Yemen. Plus supporting Regimes such as Saudi Arabia and Bahrain who are pressing and killing their minorities.
The only Army with sufficient boots on the ground is the Syrian Army(mostly islamic) battling ISIS and elements of Al Qaieda supported by the west and Gulf allies disguised as freedom fighters. Without the intervention of other countries there would be no refugee's for you to fear.


Remind me what Islam has done for those of its own people in desperate need? Very little. Which is why Syrians flee west and not to the Islamic east as they know they'll get zero help.

More than 1.5million refugees in Lebanon
More than 1.2million refugees in Jordan. (plus another 1.5 million registered Palestinian Refugees in both countries.
Iraq is not safer to get too. Israel won't take them. Turkey let them out of spite.


There are a lot of charities helping Syrian refugees. A quick google search will direct you to a lot of them. But you are too busy following the masses rather than looking for the facts.

Fairdealfrank
26th Jul 2016, 11:22
Despite many a luvvie publically (Geldoff, Sturgeon for example) promising to take in refugees, the pope is the one and only person who actually offered a place to refugees to actually follow up on his promise and give shelter to a few refugee families. Can't say fairer than that. Yet now a catholic priest had been murdered.

It's hardly surprising, it's what you would expect from that lot, gesture politics at its worst. Isn't Yvette Cooper also on that list?

Did the Pope convert his lot to Catholicism, or is that being over-cynical?



We need Politicians who will stop prating around, get the coalition of EU armies and the Brits to mount a new Crusade,


EU armies are mostly useless (apart from France).

They rely on the UK, France and the USA, via NATO, to protect them from the Russian "bear".

take all the luvvies and the Anti Establishment brigade to be the people to try and reason with this Middle Eastern Inspired war against the Christians or the Northern parts of the Hemisphere, give them two days to reason , then Blast hell and Damnation out of all of them ..

Be careful what you wish for, a Trump presidency might just do that.

clareprop
26th Jul 2016, 11:23
What I find so heartening is the way Muslim communities all over the world have risen up and condemned this sickening atrocity.

sidevalve
26th Jul 2016, 11:31
Apparently one of the attackers had tried to get to Syria but had been turned back. He served a 1 year prison term and was released with a tag.
Then today he decided he needed to meet his 72 virgins.. so armed only with a knife he and his mate entered the church and killed the 84 yr old priest.
It feels like these events are happening on a daily basis now..
France 24 rolling news in English:
gq11un3xqsA

Uncle Fred
26th Jul 2016, 11:32
I guess I will have to take a look at the Beeb to get the first earful of NTDWI.
An 86 y.o. priest? I would imagine he was leading congregants of advanced age. RiP.

sitigeltfel
26th Jul 2016, 11:45
It feels like these events are happening on a daily basis now..


http://gatesofvienna.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/govcounter.gif

G-CPTN
26th Jul 2016, 12:08
He said the hostage-takers had been "neutralised" after coming out of the church (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36892785).
Did they come out with all knives flashing? - or were they persuaded to surrender and then 'neutralised'?

parabellum
26th Jul 2016, 12:08
Bahrain who are pressing and killing their minorities.


and


rather than looking for the facts.


Pot, kettle and black flyhardmow, the Western press would have you believe there was a veritable blood bath taking place in Bahrain. Not true, have several friends who retired and stayed. Iran has been trying to agitate the Shia into insurrection for as long as I can remember and they still do at any opportunity they get, when that happens the police crack down. Bahrain is a Kingdom and usually a peaceful one but they will not allow violent revolt.

Rwy in Sight
26th Jul 2016, 12:44
Such as bombing Iraq, Syria, Libya and assisting in bombing Yemen

How many bombs were dropped in Morocco, Tunisia, Dominican Republic, Pakistan, and a large number of other countries were the only western planes went int their FIR were the ones carrying tourists.

And also nobody mentions the small (virtually zero) numbers of immigrants going in the Arabic Peninsula countries - they don't give social allowance to uninvited guests. The General Secretary of the Greek Communist Party has a very solid point regarding imigration policy in Europe: the countries need to pick the people they want /are able to help from the camps in Syria and Turkey rather than those who impose themselves in Europe.

And for those disagreeing do you take a homeless person at your home or do you give food and money to a shelter for homeless. It is not much different.

Lonewolf_50
26th Jul 2016, 13:03
. The General Secretary of the Greek Communist Party has a very solid point regarding imigration policy in Europe: the countries need to pick the people they want /are able to help from the camps in Syria and Turkey rather than those who impose themselves in Europe. And for those disagreeing do you take a homeless person at your home or do you give food and money to a shelter for homeless.
We must be living in very interesting times if I am in agreement with the Secretary General of any country's Communist Party. The world has turned upside-down.

SOPS
26th Jul 2016, 13:27
And we have the usual platitudes by the French president, saying France is at war with ISIS, but must respect the law because France is a demoracy. They will never wake up.

SASless
26th Jul 2016, 13:40
A Priest beheaded in his Church by a member of the Peace and Love Religion....at least the Police ended it in a proper fashion!



And we have the usual platitudes by the French president, saying France is at war with ISIS, but must respect the law because France is a demoracy. They will never wake up.

Stanwell
26th Jul 2016, 13:46
There's a certain poster, of the loony left persuasion, who usually can't wait to get into discussions such as these.
I expect he'll be along shortly to sermonise.

Similar to those Rwy in Sight mentioned a bit earlier, he's one of those people who, when challenged, regretfully states that
he doesn't actually have room himself, but .. is absolutely sure that everybody else does.

Let's see what he has to say about this one.

sitigeltfel
26th Jul 2016, 13:50
at least the Police ended it in a proper fashion!

Low velocity rounds to the lower abdomen.........then wait.

porch monkey
26th Jul 2016, 14:23
Load of buckshot to the groin and let the [email protected] bleed out.

tdracer
26th Jul 2016, 14:36
Did they come out with all knives flashing? - or were they persuaded to surrender and then 'neutralised'?

I'm not sure I care.

Effluent Man
26th Jul 2016, 14:43
I would imagine it was like the closing scene of Butch Cassidy.

sitigeltfel
26th Jul 2016, 14:43
French press reporting that the police have someone in custody in relation to the attack. No info so far regarding the reason for the detention.

Tankertrashnav
26th Jul 2016, 15:30
Very soon, surely, the Frecnh are going to rise up. How much of this s**t will they accept?

"Aux armes, citoyens
Formez vos bataillons
Marchons, marchons, qu'un sang impure
Abreuve nos sillons"

The trouble is, whose blood is going to run in the furrows? Known terrorists? Fair enough. It's easy to identify them after the event, but it would be rather more useful if they could be identified beforehand, which would seem to be a matter of how good French intelligence is.

If they are going to take up arms against all Muslims it's going to be much more problematic. There are something like 5 to 6 million Muslim citizens in Metropolitan (mainland) France.

You get back to the eternal problem - who is the enemy you are going to rise up against? Easy enough if he is marching down the Champs Elysees in jackboots - not so easy if he might be the bloke you work alongside, or who runs your corner shop.

G-CPTN
26th Jul 2016, 15:38
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras.
Égorger vos fils, vos compagnes!

. . . . . .

er340790
26th Jul 2016, 15:39
Attacked = Beheaded / Throat Slit.

Neutralised = Executed.

So-called I.S. = Islamic State.


I tell you, you need a degree in Double-Speak to decipher much of what our media churns out these days. :ugh:

ORAC
26th Jul 2016, 16:09
"A witness to the attack has described how the two men forced the priest, Father Jacques Hamel, to his knees, slit his throat and filmed themselves appearing to preach in Arabic at the altar.......

“Everyone was shouting ‘stop, stop you don’t know what you’re doing’. They forced him to his knees and obviously he wanted to defend himself and that’s when the drama began,” Sister Danielle said, adding that she had fled the church while the terrorists cut Hamel’s throat. She and two other hostages escaped, but the other victim was described as being seriously injured and between “life and death”.

Sister Danielle said the two men filmed their attack. “They didn’t see me leave,” she told the French channel BFMTV. “They were busy with their knives. They were filming themselves preaching in Arabic in front of the altar. It was a horror. Jacques was an extraordinary priest. He was a great man, Father Jacques.”

The two hostage-takers were shot dead by police as they came out of the church. One person has been detained in the investigation into the attack, the Paris prosecutor’s office said, without giving any further details........"

MOSTAFA
26th Jul 2016, 16:52
Did they come out with all knives flashing? - or were they persuaded to surrender and then 'neutralised'?

Who cares, I just hope it was very very painful.

sitigeltfel
26th Jul 2016, 17:13
The Front National politician, Marion Marechal Le Pen, has said she is rejoining the military reserve and invites all young patriots to do the same.

Marion Maréchal Le Pen annonce son intention de rejoindre la réserve militaire - Nice-Matin (http://www.nicematin.com/politique/marion-marechal-le-pen-annonce-son-intention-de-rejoindre-la-reserve-militaire-67339)

Effluent Man
26th Jul 2016, 17:14
Very strange coverage by the BBC. The first item but given two and a half minutes, less than BT Open Reach and the Democratic convention, items two and three.

I would have thought the French attack more newsworthy, which evidently they did also. I do think something along the lines of censorship is going on.

G-CPTN
26th Jul 2016, 17:25
Very strange coverage by the BBC. The first item but given two and a half minutes, less than BT Open Reach and the Democratic convention, items two and three.

I would have thought the French attack more newsworthy, which evidently they did also. I do think something along the lines of censorship is going on.
There is logic in subduing reporting of such events - but wouldn't that mean not mentioning it?

Effluent Man
26th Jul 2016, 17:52
That would be too obvious wouldn't it. With the plethora of news sources today it would just be odd. I think an editorial decision has been made to report it but play it down. It will be interesting to see what the C4 coverage is. I would guess their audience isn't as likely to react negatively as the broader based BBC one.

finfly1
26th Jul 2016, 18:04
Prolly no truth to the rumor that US prez called it "churchplace violence".

bbrio1
26th Jul 2016, 19:34
There is something I don't understand about the attacks which are being carried out by immigrants (BTW, I'm not saying all attacks are being carried out by immigrants). But a lot of them seem to have come into the attention of the police. Some of them have been put on so-called "watchlists".

Even if they have become naturalized citizens yet hold dual nationalities, is the fact of being on a watchlist, or having been convicted of crimes (many seem to be petty criminals) not sufficient to send them back to country of origin? If they hold residence permits instead of citizenship it would seem a no-brainer. But for the others - the naturalized - is their no judicial process for stripping them of their new (2nd) citizenship and sending them back to wherever?

Of course I understand that those who were born in their European countries would have the same rights as any other citizen. Anyway, where would you send them back to? They were born within the country.

I guess what I'm asking is, if an immigrant is a known troublemaker, why aren't they being deported immediately? Is there some legal guarantee or process which prohibits this?

I am asking a serious question, not wishing to stir up trouble, but sincerely curious.

G-CPTN
26th Jul 2016, 22:23
There is something I don't understand about the attacks which are being carried out by immigrants (BTW, I'm not saying all attacks are being carried out by immigrants). But a lot of them seem to have come into the attention of the police. Some of them have been put on so-called "watchlists".

Even if they have become naturalized citizens yet hold dual nationalities, is the fact of being on a watchlist, or having been convicted of crimes (many seem to be petty criminals) not sufficient to send them back to country of origin? If they hold residence permits instead of citizenship it would seem a no-brainer. But for the others - the naturalized - is their no judicial process for stripping them of their new (2nd) citizenship and sending them back to wherever?

Of course I understand that those who were born in their European countries would have the same rights as any other citizen. Anyway, where would you send them back to? They were born within the country.

I guess what I'm asking is, if an immigrant is a known troublemaker, why aren't they being deported immediately? Is there some legal guarantee or process which prohibits this?

I am asking a serious question, not wishing to stir up trouble, but sincerely curious.
Based on your stated location, you are probably not familiar with 'human rights' (I don't mean that pejoratively) but we have decisions in 'Europe' that miscreants cannot be deported as to do so would infringe their human rights.
I believe that this is a load of horse manure in many cases, but clever lawyers manage to argue the rights of the individuals and they get leave to stay.

Effluent Man
27th Jul 2016, 08:13
The thing that surprises me is that this has taken so long to turn religious. I would have thought that the Jihadists principal gripe would be with "rival" faiths. It seems manifestly unfair that they carpet bomb the general population.

Us atheists should play a Switzerland role in all this and be allowed to stand back while the exponents of the various fairy stories fight it out. Why should a non believer suffer collateral damage?

Economics101
27th Jul 2016, 08:35
Effluent Man: what you say is quite disgusting. Muslim leaders have of course spoken but the following might be of interest from Archbishop Dominique Lebrun of Rouen yesterday: “I cry out to God, with all men of good will. And I invite all non-believers to unite with this cry ... The Catholic Church has no other arms besides prayer and fraternity between men.”

And please don't go back 400 years to try to justify your attitude: we have well and truly moved on since then. Just occasionally I get a whiff of the anti-Catholic bigotry from which my country and my faith has suffered. I really hoped others have moved on as well.

So sorry to disappoint you about the prospect of exponents of various fairy stories fighting it out.

ORAC
27th Jul 2016, 08:42
In truth EM, Christian worshippers, as "people of the book", are held in higher regard and esteem than pagans and atheists.

PBS - Islam: Empire of Faith - Faith - People of the Book (http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/faithpeople.html)

NutLoose
27th Jul 2016, 08:54
Do you not think as they are getting caned on the home front, these actions of late in France and Germany are simply an attempt to drive a wedge between the western powers by bringing the "war" to their doorsteps and an attempt to weaken the efforts to destroy them in Syria and Iraq?
After all, by setting the local populace against the influx of migrants, are they hoping to start a second front so to speak?

Peter-RB
27th Jul 2016, 08:55
ECO101
You cannot ignore the facts that present themselves, the most recent outrage against a defenceless Priest by a knife wielding thug is the religion of Islam acting against a Christian faith..that sadly is what we hear all the time, that in the eyes of Islam no other faith is allowed or accepted... the other thing is that we IE the so called Northern Europeans are classed by the Islamic faith as Crusaders..these people are so uneducated as far as morals/civilisation are concerned they fail to see that we have long ago lost the want to act or to be as the Christian Crusaders of old. WE the UK even still have the Flag of St George as was, we are told was worn on the shield of King Richard the Lionheart

In my opinion this problem may/will blight us all for the next 100 years, simply due to soft and gutless politicians in all the European and UK ruling Parliaments..
Just look at the Rich Middle East the dont have this problem because they have strong and ruthless leaders who will not tolerate such problems..

wiggy
27th Jul 2016, 08:58
these actions of late in France and Germany are simply an attempt to drive a wedge between the western powers by bringing the "war" to their doorsteps and an attempt to weaken the efforts to destroy them in Syria and Iraq.?

It may look like that TBH I really don't think "they" are that organised or making those sort of strategic decisions. OTOH I think ISIS leadership are quite happy to claim responsibility for actions outside the Middle east, regardless of the motives of the perps(s).

MrSnuggles
27th Jul 2016, 09:35
Swedish newpaper reports the main assailant was not only known to police - he had already tried to go fight for daesh in Syria twice! This was a retaliation for US bombings in Iraq. I cry for France.

Knivterrorist hade fotboja ? efter terrorresa till Syrien | Nyheter | Aftonbladet (http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article23233763.ab)

He was jailed for trying to go to Syria with false documents, but some luvvie lawyer set him free, he had to use some electronic footwear though. PROBLEM: this was not activated the whole day! It was switched of between 08:30 and 12:30 each day.

Adel Kermiche. A 19 year old scum who apparently was radicalised after the Charlie Hebdo attacks... how does your brain work when you see that and think "HELL YEAH LET'S DO THIS AGAIN".

I am a very very peaceful person. I cherish human rights and I want nothing more than tend my garden and laugh with my neighbours. But information like this makes me question a lot of what is going on.

Peter-RB
27th Jul 2016, 10:04
Once the native populous decide the time has come to act in unison, against this horde of incomers who see a country ripe for take over by constant atrocities against said natives.....what would the security services and the Politicians of said Native country do.....whose side would the come down on.........

Would they stand up against the civilians of the said native country..?

Or would they stand up for the uneducated hordes who are intent on spreading their own form of thoughts and life style...because Human Rights, decreed they should have protection..??

meadowrun
27th Jul 2016, 10:15
It must be remembered that the security services (all types) come from the civilians of


said native country and have the same concerns themselves. The politicians - they're a bit of a wild card.

meadowrun
27th Jul 2016, 11:27
French religious leaders have called for more security at places of worship following the murder of an elderly priest in Normandy on Tuesday.
Representatives of Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist faiths spoke after meeting President Hollande.




Muslim leader Dalil Boubakeur, rector of Paris's Grand Mosque, said the leaders "deeply desire that our places of worship are the subject of greater [security] focus, a sustained focus", as even "the most humble place of worship" can be subject to an attack. bbc


Yup, that's the ticket. forget prevention.....need more security.
Add places of worships to stadiums, night clubs, cafes, supermarkets, events, newspaper offices and all the other soft targets. France must have a surfeit of security forces.

Out Of Trim
27th Jul 2016, 11:49
How long before the Native French Population insist on action being taken to contain the Muslim residents.

Internment of all those on the watchlist perhaps.

wiggy
27th Jul 2016, 12:07
he had to use some electronic footwear though. PROBLEM: this was not activated the whole day! It was switched of between 08:30 and 12:30 each day.

His conditions for house arrest were such that he was allowed out of the house weekday mornings and also at some specified period over the weekend (can't remember the hours)...we know at what time of day yesterday's attack happened.

As I understand it from TV reports this arrangement was agreed to 4 magistrates.... the comments from a spokesperson for the magistrates professional association today have been interesting....smacks of closing ranks to say the least.

Given this, plus some interesting allegations over CCTV recordings of the Nice attack it will be interesting to see if Bernard Cazeneuve (Minister of the Interior) will stay in post much longer..then again I can't see him being fired...

Clare Prop
27th Jul 2016, 12:49
Very lapsed Catholic here but convent education included study of The Book of Revelations. The Antichrist came from the sea.

Is ISIS in Bible Prophecy? Yes, Their End! (http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/isis-bible-prophecy.htm)

Machrihanish
27th Jul 2016, 13:05
In truth EM, Christian worshippers, as "people of the book", are held in higher regard and esteem than pagans and atheists.
Thank Heavens.

Saint-Étienne-de-Rouvray was an act of error.

Effluent Man
27th Jul 2016, 13:50
Economics 101,

You are, of course, quite within your rights to be disgusted by my standpoint. Atheists however have been persecuted over centuries for their prescience and insight into the folly of all organised religions who attempt to empire build by taking in everyone that they can coerce into their various faiths.

Well now the time has come for you all to fight it out. Maybe a modern day crusade would not be at all a bad thing, just as long as you are prepared to allow us non believers to stand aside and be mere spectators. In all of this argument about where our loyalties lie I would say this: I am a fourth generation Athiest, just following in the footsteps of my forbears, as no doubt you do also.

galaxy flyer
27th Jul 2016, 14:06
EM,

You might not be interested in the Crusade, but the Crusade might be interested in you! "Innocent" bystanders get hit, too.

GF

Lonewolf_50
27th Jul 2016, 14:36
Maybe a modern day crusade would not be at all a bad thing, just as long as you are prepared to allow us non believers to stand aside and be mere spectators. In all of this argument about where our loyalties lie I would say this: I am a fourth generation Athiest, just following in the footsteps of my forbears, as no doubt you do also. Hmm, sounds a lot like a pacifist asking someone else to do the dirty work to keep them free to believe as they like. Freeloaders come in all shapes and sizes.

Effluent Man
27th Jul 2016, 14:47
Not at all, I would be all in favour of repaying the Jihadists and all their fellow travellers with plenty of compound interest.

Lonewolf_50
27th Jul 2016, 14:54
Not at all, I would be all in favour of repaying the Jihadists and all their fellow travellers with plenty of compound interest.
Right. We are all in this together. :ok: (I was commenting more on the style of argument than your distinguished self, but I can see how it came off otherwise. My slop with the prose there).

sitigeltfel
27th Jul 2016, 15:05
In advance of the Popes planned visit to Poland, the Vatican website had featured an article critical of the Polish governments attitude towards muslim refugees.
Overnight, the article disappeared into cyberspace.

Vatican 'removes criticism' of Polish politicians' views of Muslims - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36902882)

Now, what could have prompted that?

Downwind.Maddl-Land
27th Jul 2016, 15:10
This had me in stitches but is entirely relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=Rd8cRvZZv44

Hat Tip Guido Fawkes/Order Order

Economics101
27th Jul 2016, 15:56
Effluent Man: you seem to overlook the point that Jihadists are not just Muslims who murder Christians. They are Muslims (or style themselves as Muslims) who murder just about anybody, and they probably have a particular hatred for atheists if Bangladesh is anything to go by. If you think that Christians (and in particular the mainstream churches like Catholicism) will participate in any sort or religious war than you are wrong.

If they have a fault, it maybe that they are a bit too much inclined to turn the other cheek.

Dan_Brown
27th Jul 2016, 16:45
What troubles me with politicians, is the French PM or President has only just admitted we are at war with Islamic State. I do wonder if any politician's are able to see the religious connection??

How long is it going to take for the authorities to actually do something constructive to end this??

How long has it been going on now since war was declared on the west?? Years!!:ugh:

Effluent Man
27th Jul 2016, 17:43
It's turning the other cheek that especially concerns me. The current approach to Islam appears to be one of abject appeasement. History shows us where that gets us and our current enemies show a remarkable similarity to the one we tried to deal with by that method eighty years ago.

We need not to turn the other cheek, but to slap theirs - hard.

lomapaseo
27th Jul 2016, 17:50
Dan_Brown
I do wonder if any politician's are able to see the religious connection??

What religion?

Are you able to see a connection?

sitigeltfel
27th Jul 2016, 17:54
There are plenty plots in cemeteries taken up by those who turned the other cheek.