Cross country flight plan

[magicalflights]

I'm hour building towards CPL, and noted that certain hours must be built cross country.

What constitutes cross country? Time based, distance based or what?

[Wizofoz]

more than 50NM I think.

[Car RAMROD]

I remember it being somewhere along the lines of a minimum 300nm or 3 hrs, and at least 100nm away from the start point.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Why stop at just local xc's. It is a big land out there. Fill your boots and go and see it!

[kaz3g]

You are in a superb location from which to plan visits to great destinations in remote areas...coastal, desert and tropical.

Who are you training with?

Kaz

[The name is Porter]

Outside the training area

[no_one]

The USA has the following definitions for the cross country time. I haven't found the equivalent in the AUS regs. Under this definition a cross country needs to have a landing somewhere else, ie a flight to the training area no matter how far does not count. I remember somewhere that there is an exemption for their military. Many of the military flights end up back at the same base having flown halfway around the word and so did not count as cross country.....

14 CFR 61.1(b)(3)

Cross-country time means -

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight -

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under § 61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight -

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(iii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate (except for powered parachute privileges), time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that -

(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(iv) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate with powered parachute privileges or a private pilot certificate with a powered parachute category rating, time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that -

(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 15 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(v) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for any pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category rating or an instrument-helicopter rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges, in a rotorcraft, under § 61.101(c), time acquired during a flight -

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight -

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

(vii) For a military pilot who qualifies for a commercial pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating) under § 61.73 of this part, time acquired during a flight -

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

[outlandishoutlanding]

CASR 61.010 says:

" cross-country flight " means a flight along a pre-planned route during which the pilot uses geometry, topography or radio navigation aids to determine the aircraft's position and course.

[magicalflights]

Hi,

I will be traveling cross country from eastern states to WA, passing by some pretty remote areas without radar coverage.

How do I file my flight plan and sartime, things like that, when I'm unable to communicate with atc when I land?

[Sunfish]

sat phone?

[fujii]

AIP ENR 1.10 - 4 to 1.10 - 6

The Telstra map shows phone cover pretty much all the way on the highway. Motels usually have WiFi.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

How does radar coverage help with filing flight plans etc?

Dr :8

[fujii]

I don't think the OP was relying on radar for flight plans, he was just settng the scene. It sounds a bit like this is first trip away from radar coverage and possibly VHF coverage.

[WannaBeBiggles]

HF?

Guessing your flying instructor has never left radar coverage either... :sad:

[dubbleyew eight]

across australia just about all the airspace is G so there is no need to file a flight plan at all.

it is all about prior preparation and planning preventing piss poor performance.
1. make sure the maintenance on your aircraft is up to snuff.
2. new spark plugs will go a long way to having a sweet running engine.
3. you are flying long distance. you cannot get endurance with air in the tanks so know and plan where you can get fuel.
4. you are flying long distance. you are human. you will not last the distance yourself unless you can be mentally relaxed while flying. relaxed but mentally alert is the need.
5. you are flying long distance. you cant get out for a piss. you cannot achieve fine rudder control if your bladder is on the point of bursting. so always empty the bladder etcetra before departing. manage your water consumption in flight.
6. you are flying long distance. you will deplete the sugars in your system over time so a method of sparking up the noggin for the landing at destination is to suck on some butterscotch lollies about 10 minutes before destination. this will spark up your noggin for the circuit and landing.
7. you will need to buy fuel. carry a carnet card and a credit card. do not be flustered by the cost of fuel in remote locations. just bear in mind the logistical exercise that was undertaken to make the fuel available in the first place.
8. KNOW LAST LIGHT TIMES. out in the middle of australia when the sun first hits the horizon you have 20 minutes. when the top of the suns orb goes below the horizon it is like turning off a fluoro light in a room. it can go so dark you cant see anything in the matter of a minute or so.
9. KNOW ALL THE ALTERNATE AIRFIELDS near you. if you hit bad weather or stuff up your last light calcs you will need one.
10. be able to land your aircraft in windsock horizontal conditions. know how to taxy in high winds.
11. USE A GPS. if you fly from ceduna to forest this is akin to hitting a football ground after a 300 mile cross country with no reliable visual references.
12. breaking an aeroplane 2,000 miles from home can be a very lonely and expensive business. only flying through bitumen airstrips will increase your safety.

It takes a degree of self confidence to fly the nullabor.
if you cant bear the thought of flying without a flight plan and sartime coverage I'd suggest that you are not mentally up to the task.
your mileage may vary.
W8

[kaz3g]

That's an excellent summary w8 but I wonder if this pilot is actually heading over along the Nullabor at this time of year? Some pretty strong westerlies right now!

I was going to fly to Perth via my old station in the Gascoyne early August but can't get the time from work now so will be going in a kero burner instead.

Was planning to go via Alice and across through Warburton to Meeka, etc and return via the southern route so I had better chances of tailwinds each way.

Kaz

[fujii]

IFR is your friend. I Follow Roads/Railways. You'll be more relaxed.

[magicalflights]

Yes, heading west along nullabor early August kaz3g. thanks for the above. I'll write up a new post with a more precise question.

[mikewil]

How do I file my flight plan and sartime, things like that, when I'm unable to communicate with atc when I land?

You shouldn't have an issue getting mobile phone (and therefore internet) service in the vast majority of public landing points these days.

Needless to say there is only one mobile provider in Australia which a GA pilot should be with and its name starts with a T.

Check their coverage maps online and if there are any of your landing points that don't have coverage, phone the aerodrome operator (or local pub) to find out if you can have access to a telephone/internet in town.

[magicalflights]

Hi guys,

This is my first cross country flight from NSW to WA. Can you experienced pilots who have done similar trips across Australia share as much pointers as you can about crossing Australia? I'll be crossing the Nullabor plains also. I'm doing it in a warrior, spreading it out over 3-5 days.

[Capt Fathom]

Guessing your flying instructor has never left radar coverage either...
This is something I bought up in one of your previous threads. I'm a bit dismayed at the quality of instruction you have received.
The questions you have asked here should have been covered during your training. Both in theory and practice!
It is somewhat concerning :(

[emeritus]

The most important thing to carry with you is common sense.!

A superior pilot is someone who uses their superior judgment to avoid getting into situations that require their superior skill!

emeritus

[WannaBeBiggles]

You shouldn't have an issue getting mobile phone (and therefore internet) service in the vast majority of public landing points these days.

I wouldn't bank on that... Assume no coverage, be glad when you do!

Needless to say there is only one mobile provider in Australia which a GA pilot should be with and its name starts with a T.


Spot on! If you are with another provider then you'll have serious trouble getting any reception.

duddleyew is spot on. Though I'd add - know how to navigate visually! Like you know, you won't be within radar coverage, so there is no call to centre "Hey, I'm lost can you give me a fix please?". Especially if you have an alternator failure, 'cause that magenta line will disappear quick smart!

I also agree with dy8 that landing in strong crosswinds is a must! There are often some pretty gnarly winds this time of year and you won't have the luxury of just going for one of the seven runways that is more into wind than the others.

Some others;


Just because the ERSA says a field has fuel, don't assume they do!
Carry a credit card, some places won't take Carnet
If you pay via CC, make sure you know how much fuel you need and how much that'll cost. Some of the machines will get you to enter an amount, let you fill up and then charge the fuel you've taken. What many people don't realise is the first amount is ALSO charged to your card as a pre-auth and is only refunded 10 or so days later. I've seen people max out their cards in a single top up because they'd just entered an arbitrary number...
Have plenty of survival gear, water, rations, first aid etc with you.
Know the regs about flying in remote areas!
Have a plan A, B and C for every leg. (Remember PPPPPP)
A couple of large empty 1.5L+ bottles with large necks (and if travelling with a female, a she-pee) could be a life saver when you're busting
Calculate your PNR for your big legs and also know your PNR for other alternate airfields

[tail wheel]

magicalflights

Please do not start multiple threads on fundamentally the same subject.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Pay attention to what W8 and WBB have posted.
I actually don't think its a big deal if you plan well.
Spend lots of thinking and planning time on the trip.
Always have an "out" re weather and fuel.
GPS is your friend. If the aeroplane has one in the panel, carry a portable as well - else 2x portables. If you want to practice your map reading skills - don't use a GPS unless you become unsure of yourself.
If VFR, which I assume you are, I would leave the planned route with family/friend/flying school - submit a daily flight plan if you can and fly on a daily sartime. Set the alarm on your phone to remid you to cancel the sartime.

As one who has done lots of multi-leg long flights, having done all of the above, I just fly them as one leg after another - for one trip I regularly did up Cape York and back I just thought of it as 13 take-offs and landings and I was back home! :ok:

Dr :8

[The name is Porter]

Buy a bad elf. When you are calculating last light be aware of the UTC conversion for the time zone you are in. Ring ahead to check fuel, Australia is a joke when it comes to providing a service. Stop at interesting places like the Nullabor Roadhouse & Forest. It really is not that difficult with GPS but it's still an achievement and a ****load of fun

[dubbleyew eight]

first let us bury the IFR advice. across the nullabor runs the trans continental railway. now normally you can see a railway line from miles away because the ballast rocks under the sleepers are a different colour. across the nullabor the ballast is the same colour as the surrounding countryside.
if you fly from ceduna toward the trans continental railway and the light is from the west at all you simply will not see the railway.
a guy bought an aircraft from my old deceased LAME and killed himself in the simpson desert trying to do just this.

there is no reliable mobile phone coverage between ceduna and norseman. there is a tower at eucla but my phone never received it. now a mobile phone that cant get a tower ramps up the power to the antenna circuitry trying to get reception. this depletes the battery quite rapidly. once you get past ceduna turn your phone off to save the battery.

survival equipment. a lot of stupid nonsense is written about this. you are planning so that you dont crash. you are planning so that you reach each refuelling point.
you can go for weeks without food. you cant last a week without water.
in the back of ersa is a piece on using a big sheet of plastic with a rock in the middle and a tin can to get water. understand how this works. a coke can with the top cut out will hold a large crumpled up sheet of clear plastic and weigh next to nothing.
water in flight is pretty awfullll if it is hot. PET coke bottles full of water and frozen in the fridge then carried wrapped in a towel will give you a supply of refreshing water in flight.
bulky food is something to avoid while flying. I use museli bars. they are a good in flight food and dont take up much space. try them before hand though because some of them taste like recycled cardboard. uncle toby's fruit of the forest and the carmans brand are what I've found to be edible. most of the rest of the survival advice can be ignored.

carry a gps epirb. if you are making a forced landing flip the antenna and activate the epirb while you are in the air. if you stuff up the landing there is at least some trace.

if you do make a forced landing dont panic. light a fire and keep it burning so that there is a plume of smoke. in the bush someone will always treck across and find out why there is a plume of smoke in the distance. if the guy who arrives is a naked aboriginal dont panic. he may just be a sydney lawyer who has gone bush for a while to blow off some stress.
aboriginals speak english and there is some pretty decent guys among them.

carry tiedowns that work. carry a hammer to knock them in. a carpenters hammer is great. they dont weigh much and the claw part will pull out pegs.
three 18 inch long steel pegs through a short length of chain works well. splay them out and they make a very effective ground anchor. tie the tiedown rope to the chain.

if you land on a farmers strip to have a piss and you see the farm ute hairing out to you, dont scarper, stop and talk to them. they are as lonely as hell usually and just want to talk to a new face. nobody will object to you landing on their farm strip to stop for a piss.

you know the road maps that show all the sidings out along the trans continental railway. they are all bull****. the greenies have had most of them obliterated. there is only about 3 that remain.

carry a bundle of fresh AA and AAA batteries.

I still dont think you are mentally prepared for the flight but it is a free world.
ymmv
W8

[dubbleyew eight]

oh that was the other thing. forget about forced landings on the nullabor. over the years the nullabor has been infested with generations of millions of rabbits.
under each bush is a huge rabbit hole.
on one of my trips across I flew at 1000ft and looked. there wasnt an single piece of clear ground in over 300 miles that I thought I could land my aeroplane and I can usually be stopped in 300 yards.

[Capt Fathom]

magicalflights has decided to return to Perth via the airlines!

[wishiwasupthere]

Bloody hell, talk about over complicating things.

[AbsoluteFokker]

All the above advice is great.

Since you're doing it over 3-5 days, take it easy and enjoy.

Flying lowish next to the Bight is an experience to be relished. You won't get that often.

Forrest is darn expensive for avgas but worth it for the experience.

Tip: Don't land at the start of the runway in a Warrior! You'll be taxiing for what seems like miles to get to civilisation.

Do some circuits for fun too - you don't often get a 3KM runway for your own personal usage.

Tip2: Do it for some fun as touch and go, and touch and go, and possibly one more touch and go. This is the only time you will ever be able to practice an engine-out at 50/100/200/300 ft with miles of runway to spare and no traffic to be annoyed at your antics.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Here's a little taste for you magicalflights (http://www.pprune.org/members/458624-magicalflights).

Jaba in the Bo lined up for the Nullabor Road House. He only needed 3 x GPS to find the place!

http://www.fototime.com/4EFCA55333F38FF/standard.jpg

[mikewil]

there is no reliable mobile phone coverage between ceduna and norseman.

Not true these days, the WA government sponsored a program a few years ago to provide coverage all the way from Perth to the SA border along the highway, it might be slightly patchy, but if you are travelling along close the road, you should have a usable signal for most of the trip across the Nullarbor.

[magnum pi]

Plenty of useful tips so far..
Just my 2 cents worth,
Its true there is now T coverage across most of the Nullabour now. A few towers on the highway, and more along the train line. Forrest, Rawlinna etc have towers. At altitude you can expect to be in range most of the trip. But just dont expect that at 500ft.
If you can, dont pressure yourself to arrive by a certain date.. The weather this time of year can be quite unpleasant. I have departed a station west of Forrest in clear sky for a 40nm ferry intending to do a survey flight, to find the block in low cloud and fog. By the time i returned to the station, the fog was rolling in there and i just got in. It stayed around for half a day.
Be prepared to try different altitudes to find a good ground speed. Remote area wind forecasts are not always perfect.
Have the details of all the strips along your route easily at hand and be prepared to land for fuel if you have any doubts about "getting there". Ceduna, Nullabour rd house, Forrest and Caiguna are about it. Just be aware that the dirt strips may be mud ones...
Spend a night at Forrest, the dinner is pricey, but good !. Breakfast pack too and a hangar for ya plane. Spent months out there, some of the best night skies !
And last light has been mentioned, allow plenty of time to arrive, much more than 10 min if you can. Fronts etc moving in from the west can see the sun disappear behind clouds much earlier than you think..
As well as all your nav gear and ipad etc, i keep an old cheap aa battery powered gps in my bag, just in case.. And spare batteries.. I felt much better flying the Tasman with it there, even though i never got it out...
And if you have 2 coms, 121.5 on one of them.. You never know.. If its good enough for the big planes, its good enough for me.
PI

[casic]

hi

can some one help me with pcharts. I am starting my naviagtion part for ppl. I want to know, how to do p charts for aerodrome that does not provide ATIS.