Bush pilot options?

[MonsterZero]

Hello, new guy here, complete newbie (except lifelong love of aviation), done some flying, mostly gliders/sailplanes, but never achieved a license for powered planes.

At 43 years old I'm too old to start an airline career from scratch.

The good news is I already have a non-aviation career that pays good money so I'm interested in flying because of the love, not the money. I already have the money.


My question is being as old as I am, would it be possible to launch some kind of a part-time flying career like those bush pilots in Alaska? Part time instructor perhaps? Towing gliders? Crop dusting? What do you think?

If it's intermittent employment that's OK. I don't need steady.

Anybody has ideas?

My concern is if flying just becomes a hobby then it's the world's most expnsive hobby, probably not a good idea.

But if I can find somebody who at least pays for my aircraft time and gasoline, then I will do something I've always wanted to do, and I will build up flying experience.

Thanks in advance for replies.

[weasil]

First off welcome to Pprune. 43 is young and its the best time to get into aviation as it has ever been. Name your job and it is there. Are you taking lessons somewhere around Chicago?

[zondaracer]

You are definitely not too old to start an airline career from scratch. In my new hire class (at a large part 121 regional), we had half a dozen guys over the age of 40, and the oldest guy was 55. A pilot in my company told me that he got his 63 year old dad an interview. None of these guys have prior airline experience.

[MonsterZero]

I'm taking an intro flight from Lake in the Hills airport tomorrow. I will have an aircraft and a pilot for 1 hr.

I haven't begun lessons yet. The good news is I can finance training without any problems, something I couldn't do when I was in my 20s and broke.

I guess there are pros and cons of getting older.

Thanks for the input.

[zondaracer]

Think of it this way... All the regionals are hiring now. You can still make a decent career at a regional airline if you want. It is realistic for you to get to a regional by 46 years old. That's still a 19 year career at an airline... Not bad if you ask me. To get there, you need to get your ratings, certificates, and required flight experience.

[MonsterZero]

There are some pretty pessimistic videos on YouTube made by career pilots that really discourage me.

WJk9Skxyi84

[340drvr]

43 is not too young to get started at all. But, an airline career may or mat not be what you would want to do. Lots of different ways to fly professionally, corporate, charter, flight instructor, etc. Flight instructing perhaps fits with a part-time scenario better than other gigs. Sounds like you're on your way to getting started, and it sounds like you have a reasonable approach. My advice, especially for "older" folks, don't quit your day job, don't go into debt for flight training, take it one step at a time, and have fun!

[zondaracer]

I just watched that video. It is true that it can be very difficult to get into the cockpit of a 747 at your age, but if you are content with the idea of being a captain on the Embraer E175, that is a very realistic goal.

[er340790]

My concern is if flying just becomes a hobby then it's the world's most expnsive hobby, probably not a good idea.


On balance, I'd argue that it is still CHEAPER THAN :mad: GOLF!!!

My old boss had two club memberships, all the latest kit and a new set of bats most years... add to that his golfing weekend trips away, flights to play elsewhere and associated costs and he reckoned he was well in the region of $15-20k p.a.

As I tell my wife (more often than strictly necessary) it makes the $5+k I drop on 30+ hours of float-plane rental p.a. pale in comparison. :ok:

Such a saint, I am.

[MonsterZero]

Hmmm...so basically the picture everybody is painting is yes, I can get into the cockpit of a regional jet by the time I'm like 46 years old, if I choose the accelerated airline program (ATP). However, after that they say I will face a financial ruin.

I'm a registered nurse, make $40/hr or more depending on my contract. Nursing offers unlimited choice of shift and I can work as many or as few days per week I want.

If a regional pilot job is 5 days per week making 20K/year then I'm screwed but if it's flexible enough to allow me to have a second job (as a nurse) then maybe I can pick up 2 nurse shift per week to save my financial ass...

[Geosync]

Absolutely. If money isn't a problem, get your ratings up to CFI. Then you can make a decision if you want to just teach part time, full time, aim for the airlines, maybe some part 135 work, banners, jumpers, etc. Crop dusting is a hard nut to crack, you have to be all in, and get down and dirty loading hoppers before you climb in a cockpit. Doable, but not really a part time beginner thing.

[zondaracer]

ATP is kind of expensive. One of the benefits of going to ATP is that you get a lot of multi time, but that isn't so necessary anymore. Right now, any regional will take you with 25 hours of multi time. Only a couple years ago, the more desirable regionals were asking for 100-200 hours of multi.

Most local schools can get you finished in 6 months. I have seen guys finish that quickly and only spend 2/3rds the cost of ATP. Shop around and see what you can find.

Also, there are a lot of flight schools that are willing to pay for your CFI certificates if you commit to them. These schools are often located in Florida and Arizona. This can save you some money.

As a flight instructor, I was making $33/hr, and I saw some guys make $6000 net in a month if they really worked their butt off. Those are on good months and not all months are the same, obviously. Weather dependent...

Once you get to a regional, most of the regionals have raised first year pay. A few have not, and some of them have bonuses for new hires (so second year pay ends up being a pay cut). If you include per diem, there are FOs at my company making $45,000+ gross first year. Only Mesa is still paying $22 per hour. Many regionals have increased first year pay to $35+/hr.

At my company, we have plenty of extra flying available. On my days off (within the limitations of FAR 117), I often times pick up extra flying. We also have flying available at up to 150% pay. Some companies are offering extra flying at 200% pay. If you want, you could probably do some nursing shifts on your days off, but if you just want to fly, there are ways to make extra money.

[vector4fun]

Get your Instructor ratings and teach for a while. Great way to build hours, flexible schedule, exposure to a number of different aircraft. Then re-evaluate. My experience: you'll learn more from your first 200 hours of teaching people to fly than you did in your first 200 hours of learning to fly.

I would hate to see you abandon a good nursing career for loads of debt to score a $20k per year job that might disappear.

My Dad was one of the LUCKY ones. Retired as an international L1011 Capt with a major airline. Flew all over the world. When I was young, I wanted to be just like him so bad I could just taste it. Unfortunately, I was nowhere near competitive with all the ex military pilots getting out after Vietnam. Dad told me the real fun of flying was flying your own airplane how, when, where you want, not driving a "bus". (his word)

Wound up in ATC. Finished 31 years, retired, fly my own plane when/where/how I want. Govt pension. And nearly every major US airline that existed in 1976 has either vanished or gone bankrupt and slashed their retirement funds.

Dad was sooooo right, and I tell him "Thank You" often.

[MonsterZero]

I'm back! First, thanks for all the replies.

Second, I've spent last few days looking at schools/programs. There are so many I'm overwhelmed. I don't know where to go.

Somebody recommended ATP so I sent them a message. They didn't even have courtesy to respond.

Also, somebody else said ATP has unacceptable cost.

Don't know what to do.

[zondaracer]

Start locally and start talking to flight schools. Talk to the students. You could probably find a school and instructors willing to get you done real fast. I work part time at a flight school and we have had guys finish from 0 to hero in 6 months at 2/3rds the cost of ATP.

[MapleTopGun]

How spooky, I just posted nearly the exact same question in the Canadian section this afternoon. Similar sort of thing, recently hit 40, and I had the same question. I'm not aspiring to be am A330 Captain, just want to be paid to fly, I'd be happy flying private charter, medevac etc, or even regional.

I know that in Europe (where I used to live) it get's hard to get into it at this age. But During my 6 yrs here in Canada/North America, I've found there's more encouragement for us older guys to take second careers at 40. So even though this thread mainly relates to the other side of the 49th parallel its an encouraging read.

[soakingpilot]

your worried that its going to become an expensive hobby? Oh im sorry mr I get paid "good money" Why dont you take a lesson first and see how that works out before you even start to start posting what you think you dont know.
If you did that you would probably know that you could part time instruct and know that you would need a commercial at least to banner tow or crop dust which you will not get as you have 0 experience.

For the people who tell you 43 is too old btw they are full of MERICA bs hope. 43 is too old and starting at a regional any later than 22 is a waste of time and lifeblood.

[zondaracer]

@soakingpilot:

Did someone pee in your Cheerios today?

[soakingpilot]

just sick of these people who say oh wont it be so glorious and fun to tell everyone im a bush pilot as his title suggests. take a lesson and go give 20$ to aopa and leave the slaving away for the people who do it and hate it and are stuck with it.

im sure if the money was any decent you would have done the flying gig a long time ago but you chose not too so dont even talk about getting a job frankly. you sound like a sellout poser and always will be . you are that guy in the crew room who has 3 bars etched on his rollerboard and the ass hole who buys the kiss me im a pilot bib in your "good money" backyard

really do us all a favor and go buy front row tickets to sully while wearing your new aopa hat

[zondaracer]

Wow, you must be fun to fly with on a 4 day trip. :hmm:

[soakingpilot]

Actually I am. On the job I am the chameleon. Even the racist sexist captains who have F all for personality like me oddly enough..

[evansb]

Gosh diddly darn! So, you are at the age of 43, and you've never achieved a powered aircraft licence? Hmm... Well, first obtain a PPL/CPL through what ever means are morally and ethically possible, and then instruct for 18 months in an area of predominately marginal weather. Bellingham, Washington comes to mind. Then get back to me.

Signed, Ned Flanders.

[aJ_alaska]

Good grief, people. The guy only asked about ideas for part time flying. Some of the responses here remind me of why, after jumpseating for a couple of years with airlines while flying for a bush operator myself years ago, I swore I'd never become an airline pilot.

MonsterZero, rest assured that YES, there are plenty of the kind of part time opportunities out there you're looking for, and with the pilot shortage in the airliners, those opportunities will only get more numerous over time, as the "time builders" doing it just to get flight time move up. I myself started out similarly- worked for years doing engineering/IT, flew for fun, and took my time getting my ratings. At some point, I got bored with the desk job, and started looking around for what I could do flying. I started out with part time contract copilot flying, and was fortunate enough to have ever-increasing opportunities to build on that as time/experience increased. I'm now in the left seat of a 737.

Obviously, you will need to start off with a powered license. Work your way up to getting your instrument rating, multi-engine ratings, and commercial license. If you're not in a rush and have the money to be picky, you have the latitude to take your time, enjoy the new knowledge of aviation that comes with every new skill, and NETWORK in the process. If you're in a hurry, you can go somewhere and plunk down a credit card and they'll push you through the whole process quickly. For someone who actually enjoys aviation and learning, a big flight school mill will probably feel rushed and condensed. Kind of like the "Cliff Notes" for getting your licenses. Getting your instructor licenses as well would give you lots of additional opportunities, but there's a lot available out there for just a commercial/multi/instrument pilot. The key is to have your licenses and be ready for the opportunities when they arise. With your new-found ratings, go hang out at the local airports, look what they do out there, ask questions, and be visible. You might be surprised how many folks might be interested in someone to fill in, especially when they have a warm body with the right qualifications standing right in front of them. Don't forget that your "old" non-flying skills are still valuable- I found it surprising how many places seemed as excited about my computer experience as my flying experience. Lots of seasonal work up here in Alaska. Much like other places the key to getting it is to actually be here. For me, that involved buying a ticket up in early spring, and walking around the airport visiting operators and talking to people. I learned a huge amount just in that process- even folks that weren't hiring went out of their way to give me advice and refer me to other places. I also discovered that there were places that I definitely would not want to work at.

Here are some kinds of operators that I've seen in the recent past who were actually looking for part-time pilots:
- multitude of flight schools looking for instructors
- sky diving school
- charter operators (may need higher flight hours, depending on aircraft and type of charters)
- sightseeing operators
- part time contract co-pilots in multi-engine planes

Again, the key is to (a) get your licenses and ratings, (b) actually go to the places that hire the kind of positions you're looking for (c) explore, ask questions and be visible.

Good luck- it can feel like a long process and somewhat artibrary, but I think once you get your licenses and ratings, you'll be surprised how quickly things can fall into place.