View Full Version : Skippers F100 457 visas

21st Jul 2016, 10:24
Just came across this
AviationJobs.Me Flight Crew: Fokker 100 First Officers Skippers Aviation Australia (http://www.aviationjobs.me/2016/07/fokker-100-first-officers-skippers.html?m=1)

Is there no upgradable crew at skippers to fly their F100s? I don't understand why they think think just hiring imports is the cheap answer instead of taking care of their own crew and keeping local jobs.

Left 270
22nd Jul 2016, 02:44
Upgradable yes, but endorsed? I would imagine not? There would 100% be internal interest.

Also would depend how many they were looking at hiring. Either way not good to see but I noticed that the visa offer wasn't listed on their website.

tail wheel
22nd Jul 2016, 03:01
I don't think any current holder of a Sub Class 457 Visa would or could meet the requirements:

F100 Endorsement
Currently flying F100 aircraft
Australian ATPL Licence
Command Instrument Rating

.....apply only when you comply with all the requirements and if you have or can obtain a work permit that allows you to be employed in this country.

A 457 Visa is employer sponsored and employer specific. For a current holder of a 457 Visa to be employed by a new Employer, requires a new Nomination (from the Employer) and when approved, a new Visa Application.

In this case, the employer is not indicating they are willing to sponsor an overseas qualified applicant??

The employer is required to demonstrate that no Australian Citizen or Permanent Resident is available to fill the position.

I don't understand why they think .... just hiring imports is the cheap answer......

A common fallacy that 457 Visa holders are "cheap"! The employer is required to demonstrate the salary offered is either the same as a current Australian employee doing the same job, or is the same or greater than the industry regional standard.

Dark Knight
22nd Jul 2016, 03:53
However, the employers can be very creative when indicating they `comply' with the requirements.

Among many other requirements an employer is required to show they have in place training programs ensuring Australians/Australian employees have or are given the opportunity to be trained or `upskilled'

It is not as simple as employers would want it to be however, if WE do not do the work to keep an eye upon employers and the Immigration and Border Protection Department employers will circumvent the system.

22nd Jul 2016, 03:57
The ad mentions:
F100 Endorsement
Currently flying F100 aircraft

Have a look at how many operators outside Australia are CURRENTLY operating the F100.......
Not many.

Then these CURRENT pilots would also need to have an Aussie ATPL.....

I don't think there would be many non-Australians who would fill those requirements.

Placing an internet ad is cheap.....I suspect that a department in Skippers is doing it to demonstrate that they have taken reasonable measures to find suitably qualified pilots throughout the world.....then they can put forward an argument to spend the cash to endorse their own pilots......

In my opinion, I dont think the pilots at Skippers have to worry much about foreign pilots being shipped in to operate their F100's.....


Left 270
22nd Jul 2016, 04:17
Tail Wheel,
The following is from the link in the thread, but like I mentioned I can't find it listed on their website or the more normal places to advertise so it's either some sort of slip up or trying to be hidden. I'll imagine a slip up although interesting that the visa class has been listed.

Australian residency or 457 Visa applicants will be considered.

Loud Handle
22nd Jul 2016, 04:22
Quite a few unhappy F100 guys at Air Niugini who might be interested.

Right to live and work in Australia: Tick

Australian ATPL: Tick

Endorsed & currently operating F100's: Tick

etc etc.

22nd Jul 2016, 05:18
Loud Handle...hit the nail on the head. Whilst not specific, it is clearly targeting a group, that for a multitude of reasons might be looking for 'options'.

24th Jul 2016, 07:41
With whats happening at PX if any of the Fokker operators in the west put together a commuting deal to the east coast they would all of a sudden find they have access to a couple of dozen current and experienced Fokker crew. That would be F/o's,Captains and Checkies.
Think outside the box and commute blokes instead of hiring 457 visa applicants.

24th Jul 2016, 09:34
PX has many extremely talented cadets in the right hand seat of the Fokker 100/70.

I'd say most did their initial training in AUS and the majority have all the Aussie ATPL subjects done and dusted. If a company had a need for rated AND CURRENT Fokker jet pilots (and was to go down the 457 Visa route) these guys would fit extremely well.

Loud Handle
24th Jul 2016, 10:58
If Skippers (or Network) did what Splat72 suggests they would have more crews applying than they could wave a stick at. Also agree with NCD.

Dark Knight
25th Jul 2016, 00:24
Among many other requirements an employer is required to show they have in place training programs ensuring Australians/Australian employees have or are given the opportunity to be trained or `upskilled'.

Before continuing with unsubstantiated comments go to the Department of Immigration and Border Protection website 457 Visas which is excellent detailing at length all the requirements for both employer and employee.

The requirements which MUST be met are substantial however, employers are not above creating an aura of compliance and adherence attempting to find significant cost savings.

If there a considerable concerns the I strongly suggest you contact then Professionals i.e the AFAP (your representative) who have the expertise and financial resources to deal with this.

Furthermore, the AFAP has dealt with this problem in the past and is currently dealing with and aware of attempts to get around the rules.

Bar oratory and PPrune comments may be highly entertaining however, generally achieve little!

Remember, it is YOUR jobs!

25th Jul 2016, 03:12
I think VARA has a few 457 pilots from memory.

Dark Knight
25th Jul 2016, 03:35
I think VARA has a few 457 pilots from memory.

Not good enough: Facts and proof needed.

If they have why has this not ben raised before or do Australians no longer care their jobs are being outsourced?

25th Jul 2016, 08:00
Prob need 457 visa employees as all the Aussie pilots are roaming every country in the world grabbing every flying job they can.

Result, there are no pilots left to fill from the bottom.

25th Jul 2016, 08:40
Ncd your correct, there are a number of talented cadet pilots current on type so betweem them and the east coast pixie pilots Id guess 30+ "suitable" pilots current on type and looking, however Im guessing they wont be looking at working for next to nothing.
A lot of the blokes I know there have very full resume's with a lot of Boeing And Airbus time from a past life.
In my time there px was a great lifestyle job however since the" tangfoo"it has been chaos, a lot of guys are hoping for a return to the old but as time goes on its becoming obvious that thats unlikly, as a result for the Aussie operators of Fokkers there is a window of opportunity to grab these guys while they are current and before they move onto the next contract elsewhere on different equipment.

26th Jul 2016, 00:02
It's common knowledge Dark Knight wasn't a secret at the time. I think they had the endorsement and time on that type. I can only surmise that it was fully supported by the unions.

26th Jul 2016, 04:17
The whole VARA 457 visa thing stemmed from CASA stipulating that to bring the ATR 72 online they needed a certain amount of experienced crew.

As far as I know that has never been the case for any other aircraft type being introunced to Australia.

26th Jul 2016, 09:41
And those so called "experienced" 457 crews that SkyWest imported have been nothing but a drain on the training department. I'll never fly with certain carriers knowing who they worked for.

They could of pulled guys out off a c210 who would have better experience.

30th Jul 2016, 00:40
Reminds me of the Jetstar scam, where they convinced CASA that only ex AN pilots that hadn't flown the bus for years, or in some cases ever, could introduce such a complex machine

30th Jul 2016, 11:02
Amen SHVC. Every issue bar 1 caused with a 457 at the helm

Really? Like the Moranbah GPWS incident and the infamous ATR tail breaker into Sydney. Can't blame the 457s for these two biggest ones. Keep a lid on the xenophobia lads.

30th Jul 2016, 11:20
Well might be a surprise to you FTS, a 457 was involved in both incidents.

30th Jul 2016, 21:14
The captain involved in the pitch disconnect on approach into Sydney (and pulled the controls without a proper take over) was an Aussie. The captain that flew the low approach into Moranbah, together with his FO, was an Aussie. The crew that landed on an occupied runway at Moranbah were both Aussies too, can't blame foreigners on the radio for that one either. These were the three big ticket ATSB reports, so don't let facts get in the way...

Don't dilute this argument against 457 pilots by saying they're shite pilots. Some are average, but so are Australian pilots, some who would also initially struggle heading overseas.

Don't blame the 457 pilots for taking the golden opportunity to fly in Australia. Blame management for their shite decision making. Skywest rushed the guys and didn't have proper resources in place. Skippers are doing it to avoid training costs.