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Loose rivets
18th Jul 2016, 00:22
What think you?

I finally plumped for a BMW diesel. Not sure I like diesel but it's what I've got. One bonus was the HUD, or head up display I didn't find out about until shortly before the sale.

I headed into Southend traffic scared pooless, a long silver machine that I couldn't afford but was seduced by, and now it was in the midst of surly rush hour drivers - on a Friday. I pulled into a Shell station and tried to force diesel into a hole that seemed intent on spitting back at me. For one horrible moment I feared the stress of parting with money had made my brain fail altogether and I'd bought a petrol car. But no, the nozzle had to point forward somewhat and then fuel would flow. For the second time in my life I put diesel in a road vehicle.

I pulled into a parking bay that the nice Shell people provide and tackled the iDrive. To my relief it was easy to get to the GPS and enter the pretty route home. I am so relieved the output showed up in the windscreen. I say in, cos it's more in than on. Soon I was being soothed by a much nicer voice than my Garmin, and she forewarned me of . . . almost everything really. The bonus was a continuously active pointy thing confirming her words.

Speed was there, as was the Cruise speed which I use almost all the time. It has 1 and 5 mph clicks on the dedicated stalk but is nowhere near as logical as the MB mini-stalk I liked so much. It's fine I suppose, but so like the indicate/headlamp stalk that I flashed at folk when I wanted to add one knot to my speed. Just old age I suppose, but at times I did find I was suffering gizmo sensory overload.

Frankly, setting off into that traffic in a car that in this country seems so large I found quite difficult, despite having driven the Rivetess' Caddy Fleetwood for thousands of miles. Britain's tiny and choked roads are doable - if you drive every day, but this was the first demanding drive I'd done in a year and it's astonishing how one's brain atrophies in a few weeks. The HUD was a godsend that I never want to be without again. I have a feeling my relationship with a lorry disguised as a Buck Rogers spaceship is going to be over almost before it's begun, but the modern flight deck I'll buy even if it's an add-on. Mind you, I don't supposed a Halford's add-on will warn of exceeding the speed limit as efficiently as this one. DONG! With a written message before my eyes telling me I'd travelled at 65 miles an hour when it was set to warn at 64, though frankly, a pleasant dong would have done the job.

Colour HUD replacing all instruments? Could be, though I'd like a basic flightdeck hidden away somewhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bmw+head+up+display&client=firefox-b-ab&tbm=isch&imgil=_2Qs1aDX6hOYdM%253A%253BraM7gpeyreCtcM%253Bhttp%25253A %25252F%25252Fwww.extremetech.com%25252Fextreme%25252F102723-could-bmws-full-color-head-up-display-replace-the-instrument-panel&source=iu&pf=m&fir=_2Qs1aDX6hOYdM%253A%252CraM7gpeyreCtcM%252C_&usg=__0ucD1XoV8wItwTNBMZ1yPD1M73w%3D&biw=1200&bih=622&ved=0ahUKEwjI9L_k0vvNAhUInRoKHbvZBcMQyjcIKQ&ei=BhSMV8jZHYi6aruzl5gM#imgrc=_2Qs1aDX6hOYdM%3A









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G0ULI
18th Jul 2016, 03:09
The torque output from diesel engines is addictive, as is the fuel economy compared to petrol. Its true, once you go black, you never go back!

Art Smass
18th Jul 2016, 03:21
I've got a basic HUD in my Commodore SV6 here in Oz - luv it.
It gives you your speed (to save looking at the speedo all the time when in case the rozzers are about, tells you the speed limit of the stretch of road you're on, shows you indicators if they are active (even tells you the track name of the next tune coming up on your Ipod and the outside air temp)

AS

Hydromet
18th Jul 2016, 03:29
Can you play Angry Birds on it? Or Pokemon Go?

ORAC
18th Jul 2016, 06:16
Sold my car 4 years ago, never looked back.

Use bus, train and taxi when necessary; I am in a car club for the occasions I need one - they have a slot literally outside my front door - and have used it twice. Saved me a fortune.

Looking at the new proposed diesel penalties in London and most other major towns, plus the cost of insurance etc,I am unsurprised that car ownership amongst the young is falling.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/apr/28/end-of-the-car-age-how-cities-outgrew-the-automobile

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/05/sadiq-khan-unveils-plans-for-extra-charge-on-londons-most-polluting-cars

Millennials Don't Care About Owning Cars, And Car Makers Can't Figure Out Why | Co.Exist | ideas + impact (http://www.fastcoexist.com/3027876/millennials-dont-care-about-owning-cars-and-car-makers-cant-figure-out-why)

Art E. Fischler-Reisen
18th Jul 2016, 07:53
The torque output from diesel engines is addictive, as is the fuel economy compared to petrol. Its true, once you go black, you never go back!
Oh yes, it certainly is. I commute in a BMW 3.0 diesel automatic (6 cylinder engine). I love the way it lopes along at high motorway speeds, with the engine barely above idle rpm.

Yet it will do almost 160 mph and it handles superbly for a heavy car. It's addictive.

My other smaller, petrol engined car is far higher revving and I now find it irritating and noisy on the same journey.

VP959
18th Jul 2016, 07:59
Given how easy it seems to create a car HUD (the last three cars I've owned have had them) I'm surprised they didn't come along sooner.

As far as I can tell, it's just a dead simple mirror-imaged illuminated display panel set into the dash and directed at the windscreen. Nothing too it really, other than a little motor to change the angle to suit the driver's eyeline.

The speed display is useful, and I find I rarely look at the one on the dash now, but the really big benefit is the GPS guidance arrows being on the windscreen, right where you need it when navigating a complex junction or roundabout and trying to see which turn you're supposed to be taking.

PDR1
18th Jul 2016, 08:13
Are they proper HUDs (columnated at infinity) or just images reflected off the windscreen or a secondary glass?

The former is expensive, but the latter is extremely dangerous.

PDR

Ancient Mariner
18th Jul 2016, 08:24
GOULI:The torque output from diesel engines is addictive, as is the fuel economy compared to petrol. Its true, once you go black, you never go back!

Not entirely correct, I've been driving diesels for quite a number of years, but just ordered a Skoda Superb L&K 280 hp petrol in exchange fro my 170 hp diesel ditto.
Why? Just for the hell of it. The perfect Q-car to surprise the BMW/Audi/MB brigade. :E
Per

rustle
18th Jul 2016, 08:43
Are they proper HUDs (columnated at infinity) or just images reflected off the windscreen or a secondary glass?

PDR


They're definitely focussed at infinity so you look "through" them with no loss of distance vision/focus nor peripheral vision.

ian16th
18th Jul 2016, 09:08
Originally Posted by G0ULI http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/581708-hud-s-private-cars.html#post9443259)
The torque output from diesel engines is addictive,

My friend has just traded a MB B Class 2l diesel for a Renault Captur 1.2l petrol.

Me, I wouldn't have bought either of them.

Cazalet33
18th Jul 2016, 10:03
A friend built his own HUD. The reflector is just a CD case lid, set at the appropriate angle. The display is a reversing LCD screen, stripped off a scrap car. The infinity focus lens is a cheap plastic fresnel. Cost him about twenty quid (plus a Rasberry Pi, two actually though I can't remember why two).

Effluent Man
18th Jul 2016, 10:05
I borrowed a B from the local Merc dealer, not impressed. My 220CDI Sport with a 6 speed stir your own pudding gearbox though is superb. Just turned 172k and demands nothing apart from occasional oil changes and tyres. It has averaged 51.5 mpg since I reset the meter 8 months and 12000 miles back. Mostly on 12 mile runs.

Loose rivets
18th Jul 2016, 10:55
ORAC, Lovely pics, especially the one a few clicks to the right showing Piccadilly Circus - and the E-Type. (probably worth about a grand.)

I keep going back to that first picture. There's just the remotest chance that bloke in the Mk9 is me.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/apr/28/end-of-the-car-age-how-cities-outgrew-the-automobile#img-1



Not many of that model in the UK. Well, 10,000 I suppose. But the later ones must have been limited as they weren't around long - due I suppose to the 13 mpg the auto returned.

Always trying to be man about town in that era. Drove down that road in exact same model loads of times.

Looks vaguely like me and my driving glasses were heavily tinted. (a bad mistake but couldn't afford to change back.)


Flash git=yes. Cringe, cringe, but it was by far and away the most luxurious car I've ever owned. Walnut everywhere (genuine, not photographic) Picnic tables folded out into the huge rear cabin. Two clocks (wondrous rectangular art-deco electric winding mechanical works of art.) Three cigar lighters. Thick hide and a mile thick carpets and there was discrete lighting in alcoves in the rear side surfaces. :E

In the days when a Rolex GMT Master could be purchased in that road for 89 quid, my utterly mint Mk9 had cost me 400 quid.

It occurs to me now that 4 Rolex watches would have been a rather better investment.


.

radeng
18th Jul 2016, 11:02
Are there conventional instruments (or at least a speedometer) as well? Failure of the HUD on a journey could be very disastrous...........

VP959
18th Jul 2016, 11:05
Are they proper HUDs (columnated at infinity) or just images reflected off the windscreen or a secondary glass?

The former is expensive, but the latter is extremely dangerous.

PDR
As above, definitely focussed at infinity, but there is nothing at all complex in the things. I had a dash rattle on the first car I had that was fitted with one, that defied several attempts by the dealer to fix, so I decided to take the dash apart myself and fix it (turned out to be a missing fastener near the centre).

In the process, I had to remove the HUD module, which was nothing more than a bright, reversed image, display, with a lens on the front. It had a small motor fitted to change the angle, that looked very like the sort of thing fitted inside wing mirrors.

There didn't seem to me to be any expensive parts in it at all, and no new technology, it looked like stuff that's been around for decades.

Loose rivets
18th Jul 2016, 11:11
I suppose the brightness is the issue. I was astonished to find I could see it clearly in bright daylight.

Haven't found the height adjust yet. :confused:

VP959
18th Jul 2016, 11:21
I suppose the brightness is the issue. I was astonished to find I could see it clearly in bright daylight.

Haven't found the height adjust yet. :confused:
On the one I looked at the physical display was larger than the display projected on the windscreen, so presumably the lens not only gets the focus sorted but also increases the brightness by reducing the image size.

The display module looked to me to be some sort of plasma display, as used in TVs, rather than an LCD, as there was a high voltage label on it.

My car has buttons to move the HUD up and down and to select the level of information displayed, from off, through just displaying speed, to displaying other instruments and navigation directions. I usually only have the speed display on when driving around locally, because with just that selected the speed characters are larger on my car.

Martin the Martian
18th Jul 2016, 13:05
Hey ORAC, try relying on trains, buses and taxis and car clubs in Cornwall, or most other rural parts of the country. That's why so many people STILL have cars.

And yes, I don't understand why HUDs in cars have been so long in coming along.

G0ULI
18th Jul 2016, 13:17
All to do with government legislation dictating what was allowed to be in the driver's eyeline. It wasn't until everyone started putting sat nav equipment in their cars that display screens visible by the driver while the vehicle was in motion became acceptable. Even that took years for legislation to be passed. Vehicle manufacturers are forced to be very conservative when it comes to the potential for driver distraction.

Buster Hyman
18th Jul 2016, 14:05
Is this a Top Gear audition?

james ozzie
18th Jul 2016, 18:28
I am driving my daughters diesel BMW with HUD and find that with sunglasses the HUD fades to almost zip, owing to the crossed polarisation between the horizontally reflected HUD & vertical glasses. Twisting the glasses verifies this. I guess those top gun jet jockeys don't use polarised sunglasses?

twb3
18th Jul 2016, 18:37
HUDs in fighter aircraft are not polarized, since they do not use an LCD to generate the imagery.

TWB

G0ULI
18th Jul 2016, 22:54
Polarised sunglasses are not recommended for driving or flying for that matter. A lot of LCD screen displays appear totally dark when viewed through polarised glasses because varying polarisation is the method used to pass light through the display to generate the images. Crossed polarisation at 90 degrees blocks the transmission of light.

Carry0nLuggage
19th Jul 2016, 12:25
Various other bits of aircraft technology have been tried in cars over the years, such as gas turbine power and side stick controllers for steering. Has anyone on this site ever had the chance to drive a car, prototype probably, with anything like this fitted?

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 12:33
My car has an autopilot. Does that count?

It also has a 17" MFD upon which I can display near real-time wx radar, among as many other things as you have on a Garmin 1000 MFD.

(Tesla Model S)

G-CPTN
19th Jul 2016, 13:08
The Reliant Robin and Regal had a tricycle undercarriage.

VP959
19th Jul 2016, 13:10
The Reliant Robin and Regal had a tricycle undercarriage.
And all the inherent instability on the ground that a taildragger has.................

Loose rivets
19th Jul 2016, 20:13
Oh, my . . . a Reliant Robin sounds very nice right now. Turned up at the main agent's for a health check. Nicer coffee than an NHS appointment.

Great sigh of relief when they said my car should sound like a pile of bolts in a dryer, but then they said my car should have 275's on the back wheels. Ooooooo f . . . lippin' heck.

I'd spent a lot of words and sizable contribution getting a new set of run-flats. Now it seems they're not right. But wait - the wheels seem to be the same size! Roughly 9" measured with a tape poked through the spokes.

Is it possible one simply puts 275 or 245 on the same wheel? My searches drown me in information, mostly trying to sell me wheels or tyres. I did not, today at least, catch the technicians at the main agents who would know, but I want to tell the vendor tonight. Any fat tyre folk out there.

(No tyre people who's only qualification is that they're fat need apply.)

ORAC
19th Jul 2016, 20:35
See here, if 9.5" then 245 to 275 are suitable.

Tire Width for a Wheel/Rim Size Chart (http://www.tyresizecalculator.com/charts/tire-width-for-a-wheel-rim-size-chart)

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 20:43
Don't they show that shit on the HUD?

Pah!

Loose rivets
19th Jul 2016, 22:03
There is a rim width range for every tire size, but on the other side, there is a tire width range for every single rim size.

Thanks, ORAC. Wish I'd found that earlier. Only issue is, will the insurers deem that a change?

I've contacted them so many times lately, what with having to get quotes for everything I looked at, and then finally bought a car with two registrations - one of which I'd agreed to give back.

The dealer, a quiet and intelligent sort of chap has probably never worked so hard to make a sale. When we went to the bank a nice lady couldn't get into the computer and eventually said I couldn't have my money. It was like Not the Nine O'Clock News bank sketch where they'd lost Grif's cardboard box with his money in it.

Having searched for that sketch, I've a list of clips of Pamela Stephenson to attend to, and then a cold shower.

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 22:28
Try: American Express

That gets her going.

Haraka
20th Jul 2016, 18:16
I had a brief foray in the mid 1980's into a company that , among aircraft bits, also built glass fibre "executive appreciation models" for the car industry.
In talking with car designers I raised the topic of HUDs. Interestingly they were all well aware of the principles and potental advantages to the driver. However , at that time, it was considered that the conservative average motorist would not accept the concept willingly.
I guess it's a bit like self- driven cars ( and even autonomous passenger aircraft ) today, which doubtless will be totally acceptable in another 30 years. My grandmother refused to even go in a lift unless there was an attendant controlling it.

Loose rivets
20th Jul 2016, 22:51
Try: American Express

That gets her going.

Yes, but after 37 watches it becomes a bit repetitious.;)


Anyway, forget HUDs. Them thingies that you switch on to avoid lane wander are the bees' knees. What a fantastic gizmo. I thought it would only work where the lines were very well defined, but it did quite well on B roads.

Only for dim old drivers? Yes, but there's a lot of them about :suspect: and I can well see me leaving this switched on quite a bit.

Stick Shaker? That's what I'd call it, but it really does feel like the corrugations cut in the side of motorways.

Mike6567
30th Jul 2016, 19:56
LR. Please could you give an update on the BMW tyres, track, seat adjustment etc (if you have time) as recent posts seem to have disappeared.
We (wife and I) have been following with great interest. How old is the car and what model?

Thanks, Mike

The first thing I check on a car is driving position and I find the BMWs have the left foot rest to the right of a comfortable position (i.e. not in line with the left shoulder). Obviously seats are very important but foot position is also of prime consideration to me.

DirtyProp
30th Jul 2016, 20:27
My car has an autopilot. Does that count?

It also has a 17" MFD upon which I can display near real-time wx radar, among as many other things as you have on a Garmin 1000 MFD.

(Tesla Model S)
Are you properly type rated in it? Better check your logbook...

DirtyProp
30th Jul 2016, 20:33
Sold my car 4 years ago, never looked back.

Use bus, train and taxi when necessary; I am in a car club for the occasions I need one - they have a slot literally outside my front door - and have used it twice. Saved me a fortune.

Looking at the new proposed diesel penalties in London and most other major towns, plus the cost of insurance etc,I am unsurprised that car ownership amongst the young is falling.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/apr/28/end-of-the-car-age-how-cities-outgrew-the-automobile

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/05/sadiq-khan-unveils-plans-for-extra-charge-on-londons-most-polluting-cars

Millennials Don't Care About Owning Cars, And Car Makers Can't Figure Out Why | Co.Exist | ideas + impact (http://www.fastcoexist.com/3027876/millennials-dont-care-about-owning-cars-and-car-makers-cant-figure-out-why)
Agree.
I keep my old clunker for the occasional short trip out of town, otherwise public transportation every day.
And if I need a big, fancy "look-at-me" statement, I rent it.

When young, hot chicks will stop looking at a guy's car, the market will tumble.

NutLoose
30th Jul 2016, 20:38
You can get it for your mobile phone, it displays via your gps on the phone your speed etc all in reverse, you simply lie your phone on the dash and it reflects off the screen. Just look for a hud app.

Lots out there, as an example

http://hudwayapp.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaz2EfJfQ-Y

A lot are free

This is an iPad one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn6Tu3eGtbo

Carry0nLuggage
31st Jul 2016, 00:16
When young, hot chicks will stop looking at a guy's car, the market will tumble.

Like they ever did. Mate at work once reported a convo with a Ferrari owner.

Mate at work: I bet that attracts the chicks
Ferrari owner: No, only blokes. Chicks don't care. In fact all they want is something easy to get in and out of.

MG23
31st Jul 2016, 04:03
And yes, I don't understand why HUDs in cars have been so long in coming along.The tech has been around a long time. I have an article from the 60s or 70s somewhere about a car with a HUD. I have a feeling it was something Jensen were testing at the time, since they were big on new technology?

As someone mentioned earlier, it's probably another example of automotive innovation destroyed by government regulation, like turbine cars.

Chicks don't care. In fact all they want is something easy to get in and out of.Must have gone downhill a lot since my sports-car-driving days, then.

Burnt Fishtrousers
1st Aug 2016, 23:41
Peugeot have a better solution to this automotive fad....just mount the instruments higher up

Loose rivets
2nd Aug 2016, 00:15
Mike6567 This is much the same. Mine is silver and has real wood around the dash. I don't like that brushed silver, so this was a downscaled Jag interior.

BMW 6-Series - Pictures | Evo (http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/6-series/1205/bmw-6-series-pictures#0)

The Tyre issue is not totally resolved, but after the main agent in Colchester putting 275s on the Health Report, the lad at a tracking company simply looked at the label on the car and mine came with 245s all round. :ugh:

My car was taxed a few days before 2010. Why do folk do that? Even though the plate wouldn't change for some weeks, one can still say the car is a 2010 - well, one can, but I can't.:uhoh:

After giving the company two goes at the tracking, I gave up and went to another company. The chap there was very friendly and showed me the computer screen on the reception wall. It was waaaaaaaaay out. He took some time to do the job and I could see the arrows moving into the green as he turned the threads. It transformed the car.

It seems that stuffing that power onto the road does have some affect on the geometry over time. Not surprised. It's a heavy car and really does need some grunt to make it go. Having said that, the same pal that was with me in my E-type some 45 years ago let out a subdued gasp as I let it loose.

It really is not as quick as the 308hp 640 I tried. That was nothing short of spectacular for such a large car. 72,000 quid and for sale at 24,000 like new. Such a good deal I agonised over the logic of paying far more than I could afford against knowing my years in a quick car are countable on one hand. If I'm lucky.

Mind you, I almost never exceed the speed limit these days, so all a bit barmy.

It put me in mind of a pal that has an Aston. It's done about 4k and is the second development of that model with the big engine. He's talking of offloading it cheaply as 'It gets in the way.' He sold his TVR (the one where the door wouldn't open for some minutes due to air pressure) at about half price in almost no miles. 'A bad mistake.' Is how he described that. I'm watching and waiting, though a family member is also in the loop, so I'll probably not get a look in.

Back to HUDs and the like. As mentioned, I'm sold on it. Love it to bits but the GPS and iDrive in general is a disappointment. Selecting most everything on the screen is a seriously bad mistake. Not safe. Any techie enthusiast that tells you he doesn't fiddle with it while driving is either a fibber or has gone senile. The girl I fell in love with I now tolerate as she does not let up if you go past a destination. She starts to sound incredibly like a wife and seems to become more and more insistent the further you go without doing a u-turn on a major highway. Mind you, unlike a wife, she prefixes every instruction with, Please . . .

I hate the gear lever. In fact, I agree with Clarkson about everything he said about the iDrive and the gear lever. It's just plain [email protected]@dy stupid to have one BMW with the old way of forward to NRP and this one, push it forward, and forget, and you'll be going backwards fast enough to make your foot go down on the gas and make you go backwards even faster making your foot . . .

Oh, apart from when you're on a hill and select reverse. As y'all may recall, I left foot brake. Done so since my 6077cc V8 Oldmobile in 1960. Foot off brake, 30mph, so no dancing about in the garage, just use the only other foot available. So, here I am in this new (to me) thing. Left foot and twisting around to see what's a-coming. Foot slightly off brake, soddin' thing doesn't move. In fact, it needs gas to make it go at all. WTF? I'll look at the widescreen thingy. Nothing. It keeps schtum and lets you sit there like a lemon until the traffic builds up. Now it goes, but there's a bus and an old lady and another bus. No now I use the brake.

To engage park, you press a button on top of the gear lever. Oh, and WOE BETIDE YOU if you select reverse without pressing the side button. It puts a message on the main screen which stays there until you comply. It doesn't matter about the fact you're now blind to the rear - the :mad: message comes first. But this pales . . .

You know what the English countryside is like. Lots of lanes that are just about big enough for this car, but not nearly big enough for its wing mirrors. Something coming. I'll press the button, thinks I. F:mad:ck off, says Mr BMW, you're going over .0000000001 mph the mirrors are staying out. Even if they're in, they'll come out when you move off. BASTARDS! "I paid for you, I want you do do what I say!!!" (Clarkson)

Now I learn, you can watch TV on the screen at a higher speed than the mirrors can stay in. I'd saw the bastard things off if they hadn't got detectors in them. Mind you, if they hadn't got detectors in them I wouldn't be so scared if they touched another mirror. My Fleetwood Broughm (or some daft name like that) mirror's were $1,000 I hate to think what these would cost, and my local scrap guy is not quite up to date enough for this machine.

My little 318ti hesitation issues. These lads, in a sea of old BMWs, have public school accents. (just to paint the picture) They loaned me the CPU ECM and key with barrel. CPU and even the ECM were fairly straightforward, but it wouldn't go with holding the key near the keyhole coil, so changed the barrel over. OMGooooooooodness. The key was the wrong one and wouldn't turn in the barrel. :ugh: I changed the automatic gearbox computer and am running about waiting for a fault to happen that I don't want to happen. We'll see.

What else today? Gardening and over to Colchester where the ear specialist tells me there's no cure for a sudden [email protected]#45edupness of my hearing. They've almost fixed my back, made my eyes near perfect with a retinal peel, (Ewwww I hate that word) and now me ears've gorn. I hate this oldness thing.