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DirtyProp
15th Jul 2016, 20:12
Turkish military blocks Istanbul bridges - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083)

Both of the main bridges in the Turkish city of Istanbul have been closed by security forces, reports say.
Traffic has been stopped from crossing both the Bosphorus and Fatih Sultan Mehmet bridges, but no reasons have been given.
There are also reports of military aircraft flying over the capital Ankara, with gunshots heard.

On an Italian forum they were speaking of a golpe.
I hope nothing serious....

ORAC
15th Jul 2016, 20:23
Turkey coup: military attempt to seize power from Erdogan as low flying jets and gunfire heard in Ankara and bridges across Bosphorus in Istanbul closed (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/)

....Turkish broadcaster NTV shows tanks at Istanbul Ataturk airport....

sitigeltfel
15th Jul 2016, 20:26
Will There Be a Coup Against Erdogan in Turkey? (http://europe.newsweek.com/will-there-be-coup-against-erdogan-turkey-439181?rm=eu)

Out Of Trim
15th Jul 2016, 20:34
Sounds like an attempted Military Coup!

Wow, is the Earth spinning faster.. So many World Events, one after the other..:eek:

RexBanner
15th Jul 2016, 20:35
Sitigeltfel's post above highlights the fact that many have been speaking about this possibility for months.

John Hill
15th Jul 2016, 20:41
Hmmm, probably unrelated but about two weeks ago a Turkish military aircraft entered Czechia airspace unheralded. Things were sorted out in a few minutes then back to business as normal but it does make one wonder.

Kulverstukas
15th Jul 2016, 20:50
Wow! What next?

meadowrun
15th Jul 2016, 20:57
Yildirim on Friday denounced what he said was an 'illegal attempt' by elements in the military after bridges were partially shut down in Istanbul and jets flew low over Ankara.
'We are working on the possibility of an attempt. We will not allow this attempt,' he told NTV television by telephone, without expanding on the nature of the move but saying it was by a group in the Turkish military.
'Those who are in this illegal act will pay the highest price,' he added, saying it would not be correct to describe the move as a 'coup'.
Yildirim did not provide details, but said Turkey would never allow any 'initiative that would interrupt democracy'



Wonder what they can do to not allow it. Tough to fight the military.
Meanwhile - that EU application - file it in the circular file.

baggersup
15th Jul 2016, 20:58
What next indeed...almost afraid of that question these days.

So, wonder how Mrs. Merkel and her EU mob feel right now about their conditional agreement with Turkey for possible, future visa-free travel by all Turkish passport holders throughout Schengen today?

Hm.

EGLD
15th Jul 2016, 21:02
that EU application - file it in the circular file.

...and someone get article 50 faxed over to Angie tonight!

Cazalet33
15th Jul 2016, 21:03
So, the military's in charge.

That's alright then.

Nothing to to see here in NATO or the EU. Move along.

Kulverstukas
15th Jul 2016, 21:10
G779UlpGQ3U

Above The Clouds
15th Jul 2016, 21:25
...and someone get article 50 faxed over to Angie tonight!

Angela Merkels idea of Europe is not looking too rosy right now, I hope she is having a real soul searching time tonight.

cormacshaw
15th Jul 2016, 21:28
Looking at Flightradar, Lufthansa, KLM, Aeroflot and BA flights into Istanbul have all turned back. The latter two were in Turkish airspace when they thought better of it (or were refused entry?). BA680 now descending towards Sofia.

There is a steady stream of arrivals to both Istanbul airports and the odd departure. There has also been a few departures in the last 20 minutesfrom Ankara despite news reports that they had been halted.

Senior Paper Monitor
15th Jul 2016, 21:36
"Interesting Times"

I was really keen to go and live there about 10 years back - looking at the domestic warfare abundant in Chez Monitor's in recent months it might still have be safer and more pleasant !

Kulverstukas
15th Jul 2016, 21:39
http://i.imgur.com/judFeIx.jpg

Andy_S
15th Jul 2016, 22:09
Erdogan is a horrible piece of work who has compromised Turkey's secular traditions for political gain and begun to take on dictatorial powers.

In principle I would welcome his overthrow, but of course we don't know (if the coup is successful) whether the incoming leadership will be any better.

Whatever happens, we should let them sort it out on their own.

DirtyProp
15th Jul 2016, 22:16
Latest rumor is that Erdogan is fleeing to Germany but landing to his aircraft has been denied.

k3k3
15th Jul 2016, 22:18
Very droll.

ExDubai
15th Jul 2016, 22:24
Latest rumor is that Erdogan is fleeing to Germany but landing to his aircraft has been denied.
There is only one way to get the permission. Erdogan need to repeat the satire poem :cool:

ExDubai
15th Jul 2016, 22:25
http://i.imgur.com/judFeIx.jpg
Sometimes I'm missing the "like button"

DirtyProp
15th Jul 2016, 22:28
There is only one way to get the permission. Erdogan need to repeat the satire poem

Are you kidding?
I want the money back. Angela should have taken the mofo and put him in custody.
Then, if he wants our support, he returns our money - with interests.

ExDubai
15th Jul 2016, 22:33
No support for the "dark side of the force".....

meadowrun
15th Jul 2016, 22:35
Just a reminder - Erdogan's Presidential Palace. $615 million.
4times the size of Versailles, 30 times the size of the White House.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0H2hqpIIAAcSad.jpg:large

Krautwald
15th Jul 2016, 22:43
Taking him in would be suicidal for Germany. They have filled their cities with nationalist Turks as well as suppressed Turkish minorities like Kurds for decades. Islamist Erdogan has hundreds of thousands og supporters in Germany, all the while Kurds, Lebanese, Arabs and other Anti-Ottomans are in control of real badass organized crime.

If this coup night evolves into civil war, and Erdogan himself is in Germany, Germany will become a battleground within days.

Mark my words. This is no joke, we have the different sides of Turkeys internal conflicts right here in European cities. And they they couldn't care less about the societies that took them in and provided for them - at the end of the day, they will choose fighting their wars over other nations soil any time.

Somebody set Europe on fire tonight.

ExDubai
15th Jul 2016, 22:47
Taking him in would be suicidal for Germany. They have filled their cities with nationalist Turks as well as suppressed Turkish minorities like Kurds for decades. Islamist Erdogan has hundreds of thousands og supporters in Germany, all the while Kurds, Lebanese, Arabs and other Anti-Ottomans are in control of real badass organized crime.

If this coup night evolves into civil war, and Erdogan himself is in Germany, Germany will become a battleground within days.

Mark my words. This is no joke, we have the different sides of Turkeys internal conflicts right here in European cities. And they they couldn't care less about the societies that took them in and provided for them - at the end of the day, they will choose fighting their wars over other nations soil any time.

Somebody set Europe on fire tonight.
I assume that rumour is a joke, o.k it's a black one but not bad.

Out Of Trim
15th Jul 2016, 22:58
Haha, LOL

Sorry, Sky News just switched on Radar24 at IST and showed the Grey Ground Vehicles and stated that these were Tanks at the airport! :p

Must be quite a few Tanks at Gatwick also then! :D

MG23
15th Jul 2016, 23:06
Angela Merkels idea of Europe is not looking too rosy right now, I hope she is having a real soul searching time tonight.

Surely she'd need a soul first?

mini
15th Jul 2016, 23:06
I blame BoJo and his poem...

llondel
15th Jul 2016, 23:20
https://twitter.com/moezbhar/status/754087601989189632 showing a lot of people at the airport.

BlankBox
15th Jul 2016, 23:20
...is a coup halal or haram ?:*

Out Of Trim
16th Jul 2016, 00:37
A lot of IST traffic now landing at AYT...

Carbon Bootprint
16th Jul 2016, 00:48
Just a reminder - Erdogan's Presidential Palace. $615 million.
4times the size of Versailles, 30 times the size of the White House.FWIW, Wikipedia says this was the original estimate; actual cost was more than double at ~$1.35 billion.

SASless
16th Jul 2016, 00:53
Obama is saying the United States supports and elected government. Was there any doubt which way he leans when the filter is Islam or other!:mad:

Moving away from a Democracy and taking on Dictatorial Powers....where have I heard that description of a National Leader lately?:rolleyes:

Out Of Trim
16th Jul 2016, 01:06
I've just seen Boris' alleged Poem, couldn't help laugh..

There was a young fellow from Ankara
Who was a terrific wankerer
Till he sowed his wild oats
With the help of a goat
But he didn’t even stop to thankera.

Algol
16th Jul 2016, 03:06
..is a coup halal or haram ?
Oh Haram! Of course!
In Islam one owes total obedience to the Emir!

http://www.thesundaily.my/news/1635495

Which is why Islam and Democracy are incompatible.

pattern_is_full
16th Jul 2016, 04:06
So for the Brits who didn't stay up all night watching news... (we in the US caught a break, timewise)

Erdogan back in Istanbul, crowds faced down troops there, coup being mopped up, most of the violence seems to have occurred in Ankara (42 police - thus far - killed in fights with rebels, including some who tried to shoot it out with an attack helicopter).

rh200
16th Jul 2016, 04:29
Sounds like a half baked coup attempt. Wouldn't surprised if it was set up by Erdogan himself to justify taking the country backwards some more.

Metro man
16th Jul 2016, 05:19
I was thinking of flying Turkish Airlines on my recent holiday but chose Qatar Airways instead. Two days before I departed there was the bomb attack on Istanbul airport, three days after I got back there was a coup attempt. I doubt they will be on my list next year.

I can't help wondering that as both events were only two weeks apart, there must be a large number of passengers who were affected on both the outward and return legs of their trip.

Expect some cheap fares on Turkish Airlines in the near future.

alwayzinit
16th Jul 2016, 05:46
Whatever the result there are going to be a lot of pockmarked walls shortly. NOT the behaviour of a modern democracy.
IMHO, Erdogan is a VERY dangerous man and a strict follower of the "Religion of Peace".
Turkey, until recently, was always secular by law, it is now rapidly becoming another Theocracy.
Oh Boy!

ExDubai
16th Jul 2016, 05:56
Expect some cheap fares on Turkish Airlines in the near future.
Cheap fares, cheap hotels.... The downfall of the turkish economy started 2016

Krautwald
16th Jul 2016, 06:03
Thousands of pro-Erdogan Islamists waving Turkish flags in Berlin, gathering at Turkish embassy shouting "Allahu Akbar".

If this fails (and maybe it was intended to do so), Erdogan will kill all kemalists in the military and administration and take full presidential power. Western governments backing him up. And a majority of Turks on his side, proving they want Islamism more than the secular constitution, with Millions of them living in the Europe that Erdogan loves to humiliate.

Sallyann1234
16th Jul 2016, 07:47
This is the country that was alleged to be about to join the EU.
You can forget about that one. :eek:

DirtyProp
16th Jul 2016, 08:08
Sounds like a half baked coup attempt. Wouldn't surprised if it was set up by Erdogan himself to justify taking the country backwards some more.

My thoughts exactly.
If Germany doesn't get rid of granny Anghela, the EU is screwed.

RHS
16th Jul 2016, 08:16
Not one to rush to a conspiracy theory. But. How convenient is this for Erdogan, stay with me:

Erdogan convinces a small part of the military to launch "coup" in a false flag operation. This would be backed up by the fact it seems to be a relatively small part of the military taking part, as opposed to previous coups where the whole military has been complicit.

Erdogan then mobilises the people and crushes the coup. The army however opened fire on the civilians which makes the previously deep and enduring relationship with the army start to falter, making any future coup attempts even less likely to succeed.

In the aftermath I'm sure he will call for a rewrite of the constitution to take out that ohh so tricky part about the military being the balancing power against a government trying to stray away from secular rule. Something he has consistently done.

He also now has a convinient excuse to retry and throw in jail a whole load of dissenters from the military who only a few weeks ago had been released after convictions in kangaroo courts for a part in previous plots.

So the man, who has complete disdain for their constitution, freedom of the press, freedom of religion and general facets of democracy, can now consolidate his power even further.

All seems awfully convinient for Erdogan, and awfully poorly organised by the plotters.

meadowrun
16th Jul 2016, 08:30
If this indeed was a staged soap opera, I can see reflections to a 1939 raid on a radio station on the border of Poland.

sitigeltfel
16th Jul 2016, 08:53
Expect some cheap fares on Turkish Airlines in the near future.

I flew with them once, and got away with it. Never again, even for free!

tony draper
16th Jul 2016, 08:59
No doubt he will now be sending one of is minions to the music shop to buy up all the Piano wire

DirtyProp
16th Jul 2016, 09:33
Turkish coup attempt brings thousands onto streets of Berlin, Vienna | EUROPE ONLINE (http://en.europeonline-magazine.eu/turkish-coup-attempt-brings-thousands-onto-streets-of-berlin-vienna_470093.html)

Berlin (dpa) - Thousands gathered early Saturday in Berlin and Vienna to protest against a coup attempt in Turkey and to show their support to the government that quelled it.
Both Germany and Austria are home to large Turkish communities.
Some 3,000 demonstrators gathered in front of the Turkish embassy in Berlin at night, waving Turkish flags and wearing T-shirts emblazoned with "Turkiye" (Turkey).
"This is not about politics, this is about the country," one of the participants in Berlin said.
Demonstrators started leaving the gathering when news came that the coup attempt by parts of the army against President President Recep Tayyip Erdogan had failed.
In Vienna, 4,000 Erdogan supporters came together at the Turkish embassy and marched through the city centre, shouting "Pro Erdogan."
Erdogan‘s AKP party maintains close ties with the expatriate communities in Germany and Austria.

This can be dangerous.
I really don't like it.

MrSnuggles
16th Jul 2016, 09:38
I am going to sound incredibly racist now, but so be it.

If they really are that fond of Erdogan, why don't they move to Turkey? Obviously he is dear enough to rally for!

Krautwald
16th Jul 2016, 10:10
MrSnuggles: that is, because they want to have their share of a society whose foundations they do not respect. From their cosy western lifestyle, Erdogan looks like a good deal - easy enough, they don´t have to endure his politics.

I have lived and worked in Cologne and Hamburg for some time, and believe me Germany has massive communities who have little to no respect for the country they live in, all the while Germans pay a significant amount of their public spending to foreign citizens. The utterly utterly arrogant way many of these dysfunctional people speak about and to their hosts and providers is nauseating. Nowhere have I seen such readily masochistic enduring of this than in Germany. This is detoriating western societies. Just as in Belgium and France.

These people DO NOT RESPECT US and they view European cities as their own. To them, there is no German peoples legitimate right to Germany, no French peoples legitimate right to France and so on. In their minds, THEY tolerate US in order to live in THEIR cities, because very unfortunately, we happened to be around when they arrived. But there is little to no deep interest or positive view of the host nations and their sinful people. Europe is just a blank canvas to come and take for whoever manages to do so. We are openly and aggressively questioned as the legitimate populations of our national states.

Now, their own country of course - that is a different matter. No outside interference please, no criticism please, and of course it is THEIRS. You try rallying in Istanbul with foreign flags and shouting Christian slogans.

The double standard of these people is a ticking bomb. They will not hesitate to bring their sick nationalist ancient Middle East conflicts to European cities. And they honestly wouldn't even understand why you would aks them to move to their country if they indeed are so national. They feel deeply and rightfully entitled to YOUR country. Because in their view, it´s not yours, it´s just up for grabs. Which leaves them as SOMETHING and you as....NOTHING. They have all the world, you have nothing. Dhimmi.

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 10:11
..is a coup halal or haram ?

Halal coup is called "the revolution" ;)

Peter-RB
16th Jul 2016, 10:20
Would Frau Merkel's idea of helping out be to send in the Tanks... seem to think thats what historically the Germans do.. well..! :eek:

Una Due Tfc
16th Jul 2016, 10:31
I was thinking of flying Turkish Airlines on my recent holiday but chose Qatar Airways instead. Two days before I departed there was the bomb attack on Istanbul airport, three days after I got back there was a coup attempt. I doubt they will be on my list next year.

I can't help wondering that as both events were only two weeks apart, there must be a large number of passengers who were affected on both the outward and return legs of their trip.

Expect some cheap fares on Turkish Airlines in the near future.

The fact that Turkish have a nasty habbit of missing the runway didn't feature in your decision at all?

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 10:38
Erdogan's plane track

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/k_nmishlaevskiy/76097596/72583/72583_600.jpg

Metro man
16th Jul 2016, 11:05
The fact that Turkish have a nasty habbit of missing the runway didn't feature in your decision at all?

That was certainly a consideration, risk mitigated by my origin and destination being major airports having long runways without any danger factors such as mountains, and booking flights using wide-bodied aircraft which generally have more experienced pilots than narrow bodies.

I certainly wouldn't want to climb into on of their A320/B737s and go into an airport with a short runway located near mountains.

Their fares were temptingly cheap but I ended up only paying 50 quid more for my ticket on one of the middle east airlines.

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 11:59
Defeat looks bitter

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cnei658WIAAV6rA.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cnef428XYAUQgmI.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CneQDpzW8AAJ3wi.jpg

ExDubai
16th Jul 2016, 12:04
I have lived and worked in Cologne and Hamburg for some time, and believe me Germany has massive communities who have little to no respect for the country they live in, all the while Germans pay a significant amount of their public spending to foreign citizens. The utterly utterly arrogant way many of these dysfunctional people speak about and to their hosts and providers is nauseating. Nowhere have I seen such readily masochistic enduring of this than in Germany. This is detoriating western societies. Just as in Belgium and France.
Hey, if we don't do this, people call us Nazis ;)

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 12:29
Hey, if we don't do this, people call us Nazis

Just look in neighbor WTF thread. People seriously discuss the need to nuke Syria and "religious profiling" in Europe...

ExDubai
16th Jul 2016, 12:35
Why only Syria? Let's nuke the entire Middle East and all the problems are solved. Life could be that easy ;)

barry lloyd
16th Jul 2016, 12:37
Kulverstukas:

You wouldn't want to be on the losing side in a Turkish coup, would you? Their eventual treatment will make 'Midnight Express' (for those who remember it) seem like a vicarage tea party.

barry lloyd
16th Jul 2016, 12:42
Would Frau Merkel's idea of helping out be to send in the Tanks... seem to think thats what historically the Germans do.. well..!

They already did! Turkey has 350 Leopard tanks from Kraus-Maffei.

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 12:56
Never mind membership of the EU. The bastards shouldn't even be in NATO.

IFMU
16th Jul 2016, 13:12
Turkey is supposed to be co-producing Sikorsky Blackhawks:
New $3.5B Deal Paves Way for Turkish-made Black Hawks (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/industry/2016/06/07/helicopter-turkey-sikorsky-tai-tusas/85549586/)

Seems like an unstable spot to be sending military technology to, given recent events.

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 13:19
Ya mean: a country where the military-industrial complex controls the government?

Heaven forfend!

Simplythebeast
16th Jul 2016, 13:21
Reports now that they have cut the power to the American base at Incirlic?

Simplythebeast
16th Jul 2016, 13:23
BREAKING: Turkey's İncirlik Air Base - used by US-led coalition to hit ISIS- sealed off, power cut off, US Consulate says - @DailySabah

Simplythebeast
16th Jul 2016, 13:27
Erdogan has sacked 2745 judges. What did they have to do with the coup? No doubt will be replaced by judges willing to support his purge. Stand by for the Islamic Republic of Turkey.

PAXfips
16th Jul 2016, 13:38
Always nice to have lists at hand.

RE owns Reichtagsbrand.

El Grifo
16th Jul 2016, 14:34
Wondering where the pro presidential demonstrators in Ankara got a hold of the same size Turkish Flags on sticks in such short order !

El G.

Machrihanish
16th Jul 2016, 14:53
BBC reports,

1404Z
Fetullah Gulen, who Turkey blames for the failed coup, lives in the US. Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said any country that will "stand by" Mr Gulen "won't be a friend of Turkey and will be considered at war with Turkey".

What's now being reported is that Turkey is shutting off access to Incirlik - and so stopping the US jets conducting sorties against IS.

1439Z
More on Incirlik base being cut off
Posted at
16:39
We told you about half an hour ago ago that the Incirlik air base, used by US jets to launch their raids on the Islamic State group, had been cut off.

We now have the statement by the US embassy in Ankara - you can read it in full here.

Be advised that local authorities are denying movements on to and off of Incirlik Air Base. The power there has also been cut. Please avoid the air base until normal operations have been restored."


Turkey coup attempt: Live updates - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-36811357)

This reads: Extradition Gulen or war USA, with Incirlik hostage.

Machrihanish
16th Jul 2016, 14:58
Will the late POTUS like blackmail?

Even more interesting if these developments figured as part of Merkels genius "plan".

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 15:06
I think you overreact. Switch Okkam's razor on: some of the military involved in the coup was from air forces. Government just needs switch off any possibility for them to leave country on their planes or copters like dozen already done.

Machrihanish
16th Jul 2016, 15:13
I think you overreact.
I hope so.

Switch Okkam's razor on
I think I have.

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 15:24
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/512/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2016/7/16/e0d10df8-2870-48fc-9ebd-c5396b0ba675.jpg

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/400/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2016/7/16/cf508b7a-c38e-4e22-9af0-5d750b0e9d2e.jpg

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/512/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2016/7/16/f776856e-66b3-4d95-ad88-11abdce4e9f7.jpg

Nice friends.

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 15:27
Ever trying to bargain at Turkish bazaar? Seller will be from you are best guy in the world he want his daughter to be your second wife to you guy is his worst enemy and he will hire assassin to kill you at night in two minutes and all this because of two lira difference in price ;)

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 15:29
> National Assembly in capital bombed by US-made aircraft

Can't get what you want to point here. If they use Rafales it will be better?

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 15:33
Isn't the head of the outfit behind the coup being sheltered by the US?

Or is that just a rumour?

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 15:44
This guy is out of Turkey since 1999 and he is even more radical islamist than Erdogan. How he can be "behind the coup" of military who always want to be back to more secular and "Ataturkish" society?

Andy_S
16th Jul 2016, 16:10
Isn't the head of the outfit behind the coup being sheltered by the US?

Well, that's what Erdogan says. Do you believe him? Because from where I'm sitting Erdogan is happy to pin the blame for anything on Fetullah Gulen. It's always good to have a bogeyman when you have dictatorial aspirations....

vulcanised
16th Jul 2016, 16:16
Is this the same Turkey that some folk want to see in the EU?

Give them our seat.
.

Uncle Fred
16th Jul 2016, 16:38
Interesting to hear the clamour from the Western leaders about how democracy needed to be protected in Turkey--in other words the putsch needed to fail/stand down.

Now Erdogan is cashiering judges out of the judicial system and is probably very deeply into torturing the putsch leaders--something that very well might lead to summary execution. Nothing like protecting good old democratic processes there.

I would imagine that apart from Frau Merkel that the rest of the body politic in the West is going to be rightly worried about what happens from now on.

Machrihanish
16th Jul 2016, 17:04
Give them our seat.
Bitter.

_

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 17:20
US registered aircraft (and perhaps flight crew) said to be prohibited from using Turkish airspace.

Looks like the man just spat his dummy out!

tdracer
16th Jul 2016, 19:25
Interesting info from someone who lives there:
https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/07/16/turkey-coup-has-failed-erdogan-more-powerful-than-ever/?singlepage=true


Sounds like Gulen is just a convenient scapegoat:


Shortly after the attempted coup, Erdogan and Yildirim immediately blamed a disgraced Islamic scholar, Fethullah Gulen, who now lives in Pennsylvania (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3693067/Was-Turkey-s-military-uprising-orchestrated-Pennsylvania-Erdogan-blames-Fethullah-Gulen-75-year-old-recluse-living-Poconos-community-1-100-swung-close-ally-fierce-political-rival.html). Gulen and Erdogan were longtime allies who shared a dream of Islamizing Turkey but had a falling out several years ago. Ever since, Erdogan has blamed Gulen for pretty much every problem in Turkey, including a major controversy about cabinet members (including Erdogan and his family) possibly stealing millions of dollars. In the years after, Gulen became Erdogan's enemy number one, which is undoubtedly why he's being blamed for yesterday's coup.
Proof that Gulen is indeed behind it hasn't been presented, however. In fact, the Gulen group denies any involvement. You could imagine that, if they did support it, they'd call on their followers to support the takeover. They did no such thing.

G-CPTN
16th Jul 2016, 19:37
I admit to being surprised by the extent of the apparent support for the regime from the general public.

Of course, those who might oppose are probably keeping a low profile.

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 20:27
I admit to being surprised by the extent of the apparent support for the regime from the general public.

"Regime" is an interesting substitute for the word "government.

It's a government which was elected by the people, for the people, and is of the people.

The Turkish people have had quite enough of militaristic coups in the past century. I'm not at all surprised that the people just said "No!" to America's militarism.

obgraham
16th Jul 2016, 20:30
So once again, somehow all this is America's fault??

Probably Bush's, at that.

One of these days you Euros are going to have to start solving your own problems.

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 20:36
The putsch? Or its failure?

Geordie_Expat
16th Jul 2016, 20:41
obg,


Don't paint us all with the same brush. Caz has an unnatural anti-American obsession. Just because one crazy Jock rants his anti-American bile, doesn't make all "Euros" the same (btw, not Euros for much longer).

SASless
16th Jul 2016, 20:44
Enabling the "Mute Switch" to "On" works a Treat as well.:E

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 20:56
One of these days you Euros are going to have to start solving your own problems.

Don't paint us all with the same brush. Caz has an unnatural anti-American obsession. Just because one crazy Jock rants his anti-American bile, doesn't make all "Euros" the same

LOL! Dear America, please not live us alone! Please solve our problems for us, feed us, breed us and shelter us!

Geordie_Expat
16th Jul 2016, 20:58
LOL! Dear America, please not live us alone! Please solve our problems for us, feed us, breed us and shelter us!

What the hell are you gibbering about ?

DirtyProp
16th Jul 2016, 20:59
So once again, somehow all this is America's fault??

Probably Bush's, at that.

One of these days you Euros are going to have to start solving your own problems.

You know what, you're absolutely right.
Time to grow up.
Now, would you please remove your army from MY land and close your military bases?
Thank you.

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 21:03
Wouldn't it be nice if the buggers would do exactly that!

Just fold their tents, nicely, and get peaceful with the world. No guns, no bombs, just folksy niceness. Slim Pickens sort of niceness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVR-rtK6GHE

tdracer
16th Jul 2016, 21:14
Wouldn't it be nice if the buggers would do exactly that!


So I take it you're a supporter of The Donald - he's been proposing pretty much that - close up all those over seas bases and close the borders. :ok:
Of course that might also have an adverse affect on all that free American support for your fancy car that's being subsidized by the American taxpayer...:uhoh:

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 21:29
you're a supporter of The Donald Nope.

your fancy car that's being subsidized by the American taxpayer Nope, it's not.

Turkey hasn't even voted for an early Christmas. They've merely voted for Independence from The Empire.

Of course they will be punished in due course, but that will come later.

West Coast
16th Jul 2016, 21:32
Quote:
Now, would you please remove your army from MY land and close your military bases?
Thank you.

As a non Trump and for damn sure a non Hillary supporter, I'd love to.

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 21:46
Gawd bless yer cotton socks, WC.

tdracer
16th Jul 2016, 21:51
Nope, it's not.
How do you even know how much American taxpayer money has gone into making Tesla an on-going concern?


And The Donald is proposing to do almost exactly what you're suggesting (and most of the country's where those bases are located are in a near panic at the prospect of lost $$$$). So where's the love :}


BTW, only the most strident anti-American conspiracy nut could view Erdogan as ever having been an American puppet.:rolleyes: Yes, America has tried to be on friendly terms (which is hard to see as a bad thing, even by you) but hardly a puppet.

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 21:56
Who the hell said that Erdogan is an American puppet?

The putsch was against, not for, Erdogan.

Erdogan is democratically elected. Y'know, like Dr Mossadeq was in his day (until overthrown in a military putsch).

tdracer
16th Jul 2016, 22:25
Trust me Caz, if the US had been behind the coop attempt, it wouldn't have been so incompetent.
BTW, aside from your general hatred of America or anything American (aside from your subsidized luxury car), what evidence do you have to back up your claim that the US was behind this?

Cazalet33
16th Jul 2016, 22:33
So many wrong things said, in so empty a personal attack.

Kulverstukas
16th Jul 2016, 22:38
Trust me Caz, if the US had been behind the coop attempt, it wouldn't have been so incompetent.

You mean it will be like Eagle Claw then?

broadreach
16th Jul 2016, 22:49
Kulverstukas, I think your irony fell on deaf ears.

tdracer
16th Jul 2016, 23:00
So many wrong things said, in so empty a personal attack.


OK Caz, prove me wrong. What objective evidence do you have that the US was behind this? :confused:

meadowrun
16th Jul 2016, 23:25
So much for a thread about turkey then.

John Hill
17th Jul 2016, 00:22
OK Caz, prove me wrong. What objective evidence do you have that the US was behind this?

Because they always are?

tdracer
17th Jul 2016, 01:56
Thanks for proving my point John.

John Hill
17th Jul 2016, 02:43
Thanks for proving my point John.

Perhaps you think the US had no part in this coup? That seems highly unlikely, either the US had a part in it or they do not know what is going on in Turkey. Can you imagine the US not having an interest in the internal affairs of an supposedly allied country?

Consider for a moment..Incirlik an air base in Turkey where it is claimed the US stores nuclear weapons..

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/b61s1.jpg

West Coast
17th Jul 2016, 03:29
Depends on which US hater you ask John. You ascribe a position you have no way to back up wrt advance knowledge, I'm sure another of you ilk would reach a conclusion that the US missed signs, again minus any evidence. Other than you now being locked into a position, I can see you comfortably playing either card.

tdracer
17th Jul 2016, 03:33
John, all I'm asking for is evidence. All you're providing is speculation. Which once again, proves my point.
BTW, who do you think has a better idea what's going on in Turkey, the US, or Erdogan?
If you want to engage in speculation, how about Erdogan arranged it in order to increase his hold on power (which it apparently did). About as much evidence that Erdogan was behind it as that the US was behind it :rolleyes:

John Hill
17th Jul 2016, 03:45
About as much evidence that Erdogan was behind it as that the US was behind it

I wonder if Erdogan has ever been involved in a coup before this one whereas I believe the US has a history of being involved in coups.

rh200
17th Jul 2016, 04:08
or they do not know what is going on in Turkey.

Whats that about the most simplest reason is usually the the correct one.

We like to think that reality is a bit like how Hollywood portrays it sometimes, but most of the time we live in the real world.

You would be surprised at how little we know about even the simplest of foreign situations.

tdracer
17th Jul 2016, 04:37
I wonder if Erdogan has ever been involved in a coup before this one whereas I believe the US has a history of being involved in coups.


So you're basically admitting you've got nothing but your personal prejudice.
OTOH, Obummer claims to be a supporter of Erodgan, so you may well have something :rolleyes:

John Hill
17th Jul 2016, 04:53
So you're basically admitting you've got nothing but your personal prejudice.

Past US involvement is numerous coups around the world is a matter of historical record.

West Coast
17th Jul 2016, 05:14
Tie it to this one.

John Hill
17th Jul 2016, 06:15
Erdogan has been blaming Fethullah Gülen for the attempted coup which if true implicates the US.

Cazalet33
17th Jul 2016, 06:31
There's something very childish about the teenager's defence of "I didn't do it and anyway you can't prove it".

Of course failure is an orphan. Of course the US will deny any knowledge of the coup.

The most comprehensive telecomms surveillance system on Earth. A well planned and highly co-ordinated military coup involving over three thousand military officers and other ranks, with hundreds of tanks and numerous warplanes. And the US had no idea what was happening? Get real.

John Hill
17th Jul 2016, 06:33
And the US had no idea what was happening? Get real.

Yeabut dont forget they failed to notice the USSR was about to fail.

Cazalet33
17th Jul 2016, 06:40
I was in Iran when the Shi'ite hit the fan. The CIA claimed that they had no idea that the revolution was taking place. The evidence was all around us, but the CIA stuck to their public script that they didn't know what was happening. Even Carter stuck to the script.

tdracer
17th Jul 2016, 07:30
So what you're basically saying is that lack of evidence is evidence. Brilliant :=


Interesting that you apparently believe that the US has better intelligence of what's happening it Turkey than the Turkish government. You do know that the Bourne films were not documentary's, right?

BTW John, perhaps you missed this early part about Gulen:
Proof that Gulen is indeed behind it hasn't been presented, however. In fact, the Gulen group denies any involvement. You could imagine that, if they did support it, they'd call on their followers to support the takeover. They did no such thing.
That little tidbit coming from a reporter who is actually there - unlike the armchair experts here.

Simplythebeast
17th Jul 2016, 07:33
Whoever was involved in the coup were pretty naive to try to take over the country with a small proportion of the armed forces and without arresting the leader as a first priority.
If you actually wanted a coup to fail this is exactly the model you would choose.

sitigeltfel
17th Jul 2016, 07:43
Whoever was behind the coup, Erdogans gradual Islamisation of Turkey has been given a boost.

Kulverstukas
17th Jul 2016, 07:52
Lol... I get up in the morning and read your quarrel. You both wrong. Read Ukrainian media. It was Putin beside the coup, and his intention was to draw worlds attention from his terror act in Nice.

Kulverstukas
17th Jul 2016, 07:56
And now it's time to open new WTF tread about Armenia?

Machrihanish
17th Jul 2016, 08:23
It was Putin
Makes sense now. Thanks for the heads-up.

Fact remains: It all started once Bojo had assumed office. Think about it.

Kulverstukas
17th Jul 2016, 08:37
It all started once Bojo had assumed office. Think about it.

I can't. I don't know WTF is Bojo.

SpringHeeledJack
17th Jul 2016, 08:41
Boris Johnson, UK Foreign Minister, ex London Mayor, and by chance from Turkish stock.

Metro man
17th Jul 2016, 10:20
Zimbabwe's President, Robert Mugabe got something right in his desperate desire to hold onto power. He formed a seperate brigade of the army, the infamous fifth brigade which was responsible for the massacres in Matabeleland during the 1980s. These soldiers were recruited exclusively from his own tribal faction and trained from the beginning by the North Koreans to be fanatically loyal to him.

Their uniforms, radio channels and codes are different to the rest of the army's and their command structure reports directly to him not the head of the regular army. They form a strong deterrent to anyone contemplating a coup who would have a major battle on their hands against a unit with a fearsome reputation who could not be persuaded to change sides as there is no means of communicating with them.

Overthrowing Mugabe wouldn't be a simple matter of seizing key installations and sending a couple of tanks to his residence.

Coups seem to be mainly initiated from Colnel/Brigidare officer level as lower ranks don't have the authority to command a mass following or the ability to effectively plan and control the operation. General and above is usually part of the establishment and in a very comfortable position with the ruling elite who rely on him to keep them in power.

Cazalet33
17th Jul 2016, 10:25
Erdogans gradual Islamisation of Turkey

That, right there, even if factually untrue, goes some way to explain The Empire's acquiescence in the coup.

It's not a complete explanation. There are other factors, such as settling old scores with the government who refused to allow Iraq to be invaded from Turkey and the fact that the US is sponsoring Kurdish terrorism in Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey itself.

Meanwhile, we have the disturbing situation of a quasi-European country which has a heavily armed military in complete disarray and whose entire judiciary has been dismissed and which finds itself in a state of some hostility with the greatest empire the world has ever known. Not good.

Cazalet33
17th Jul 2016, 10:36
Coups seem to be mainly initiated from Colonel/Brigadier officer level as lower ranks don't have the authority to command a mass following or the ability to effectively plan and control the operation. General and above is usually part of the establishment and in a very comfortable position with the ruling elite who rely on him to keep them in power.

In this case too the very highest ranks do not appear to have been part of the coup, though five Generals and twenty nine Colonels have been arrested.

Machrihanish
17th Jul 2016, 11:13
and whose entire judiciary has been dismissed
So far I've just read the number of 2745 judges dismissed; have we however been told what rank in the jud. system these have and what proportion of their rank they make, ie how many more remain? A key question, methinks.

meadowrun
17th Jul 2016, 11:19
14,000 judges and prosecutors.
Give or take a few.

rh200
17th Jul 2016, 11:39
Whoever was involved in the coup were pretty naive to try to take over the country with a small proportion of the armed forces and without arresting the leader as a first priority.

Actually you really need to do a bit more than detain, especially for this case. Remember the half baked effort with Chavez all those years ago.

If you actually wanted a coup to fail this is exactly the model you would choose.
Which makes you wonder if it really was a set up.

SASless
17th Jul 2016, 11:51
MM,

How would a Drone/Hellfire strike (For example) work for de-Bobbing Zimbabwe?

There are ways to breach every Physical Security Plan.

In this case...a bit of Janis Joplin would go a long way.

Simplythebeast
17th Jul 2016, 11:52
Turns out it wasnt the CIA, or Putin or Erdogun himself......
Well, according to this plank anyway......
Turkey military coup 'caused by BREXIT', claims Labour MP | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/690072/Turkey-coup-map-military-turkish-fco-Chris-Bryant-Brexit-EU-referendum-campaign-MP)

fireflybob
17th Jul 2016, 13:15
Interesting comment on Andrew Marr show reviewing the papers was Erdogan's use of FaceTime and also text to all mobile phones in Turkey to the people to go out on streets etc.

This from someone who has clamped down on internet use!

Watch from 08.48

Erdogan on facetime (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07lp37j/the-andrew-marr-show-17072016)

PAXfips
17th Jul 2016, 13:31
https://twitter.com/ColMorrisDavis/status/754369731629608964

If Fethullah Gulen is considered a threat to Erdogan & Turkey's gov't - doesn't Turkey have a right to drone strike him in Pennsylvania?

Any reactions from CNN, ehm, State Department yet? :-D

West Coast
17th Jul 2016, 13:57
Caz, john, post your evidence to tie the US govt to the coup. Answer the question with fact, even legitimate press reports, not with your bias and hatred of the US. You've both failed so far.

fitliker
17th Jul 2016, 14:40
Have any radio stations been attacked or the Reichstag burned yet ?

It will interesting to watch the Russians using the same Turkish base for Syrian ops that the Americans use to store 'strategic weapons '
They might need a new strategy as the deterrence is not deterring .If the bad guys get into those storage bunkers it will be a game changer .
Would the Russians get the blame if a few little ones go missing or would the Turks get the credit from their "friends". Or would the radio hosts blame the present occupant at 1600 for failing to remove weapons that could be used to start a global storm.

It will be interesting to watch how long it takes before the C-17s fly in and remove the nuclear tripwires that have failed to stop the invasion of Europe by hordes of people hostile to the western democratic values . Although I think it will be more interesting to see how they sell another defeat and failure. Brought to us by the purveyors of the please and thank policies of appeasement.

Machrihanish
17th Jul 2016, 14:46
IF there was support from Incirliks international parties it would have been uberprobable these parties recognized the quite little chance for success and the consequences of this; Erdogan is quite calculable, isn't he. So that button pressed and Erdogan turned into a secure authoritarian actor, replacing in that role Assad of stirred-up Syria. Plus, should he resort to resurrecting the death penalty, the EU-Turkey phantasma will be a thing of the past. I think: Turkey made a choice the other night - to be Middle East.

That way, I COULD see the US had a somewhat janus-headed role in it.

But with what we know, it's difficult to tell if this operation was screwed first order or second order, in other words: are we rightly discussing it as a finished event?

Btw: one argument for this being Erdogans own show: him landing in Istanbul, the Ottoman capital - while Ankara ('s parliament and gov buildings), the Kemalist capital, being shelled.

Cazalet33
17th Jul 2016, 15:41
It is not at all credible that the CIA, the DIA and the NSA were unaware of the plot before it kicked off.

For one thing, the ringleaders would have discreetly sought the nod from The Empire. If the coup had been successful and if The Empire had wagged a finger and said "get back in your box, boys" then it all would have been for nothing. They quite certainly would have sought tacit clearance, deniable of course, before going ahead.

A massive coup on this scale, which involved thousands, is not cooked up overnight in some dark and smokey room. There would have all kinds of intel clues as to what was going on. I'd also be surprised if the UK's SIS and GCHQ stations in Turkey, Cyprus and Oman hadn't picked up the chatter too.

Machrihanish
17th Jul 2016, 16:02
More than one commentator agree it was far from a massive coup by any scale.

In coup categories, they in fact see more improvisation than preparation, hence little opportunity to detection.

However, Stratfor gave this guidance rather early in the process, fwiw: https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/why-turkish-coup-will-likely-fail?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article

obgraham
17th Jul 2016, 16:10
It is not at all credible that the CIA, the DIA and the NSA were unaware of the plot before it kicked off...

A massive coup on this scale, which involved thousands, is not cooked up overnight in some dark and smokey room. There would have all kinds of intel clues as to what was going on.
But you would have us believe at the same time that Erdogan, with his secret police and infiltrators everywhere in his own country, was totally unaware?

Cazalet33
17th Jul 2016, 16:15
Good point, Ob.

The answer is, of course, no.

West Coast
17th Jul 2016, 19:48
It is not at all credible that the CIA, the DIA and the NSA were unaware of the plot before it kicked off.

Speaking of credibility, you have anything yet to tie the US govt to the coup beyond opinion?

The answer your looking for is no.

Donkey497
17th Jul 2016, 20:03
So what's being sold to us at the moment is:
1: "Massive" coup takes place
2: (Allegedly Pro-Islamist) President has absolutely no forewarning of it from security services & no mitigation is in place
3: Parliament gets trashed (in Secular city), President calls on people to defend their democracy
4: mob takes to streets, coup participants surrender en-masse
5: within a few hours of the start, it's all over & 2700 judges are relieved of their posts & in custody for supporting the coup.

Seems remarkably inefficient of the Turkish Security Services before the fact and inhumanly efficient and rapid after the fact.

SASless
17th Jul 2016, 20:57
Yet another Step closer to the Ottoman Empire Redux.

You reckon there will be Iron Cages and bonfires in the near future?

Long lines of guys in their underwear being led to a ditch to be mass murdered?

As Turkey continues its slide back into the Dark Ages....how will we see this Tragedy play out?

Cazalet33
17th Jul 2016, 21:20
I thought he handled it rather well.

His trump card was democracy.

We'll probably never know how much warning he received, or from whom.

Rwy in Sight
17th Jul 2016, 21:20
I feel for the Turkish people. They "avoided"(?) a military coup and having to live under a junta so they can live under a Muslim theocratic regime. Not sure which one is the worst.

fitliker
17th Jul 2016, 21:26
On yonder hill there stood a coo
It must have gone
For it is not there noo


William McGonagall Scotland's other poet :)

barry lloyd
17th Jul 2016, 22:14
News reports say that 6000 people are 'being held'. Where and how? It can hardly be a football stadium, can it? Whether Mr Erdogan likes it or not, they still have to be fed (something), go to the toilet and sleep. Has he sent to them Northern Cyprus? They wouldn't get away from there too easily and there are plenty of empty hotels.

meadowrun
17th Jul 2016, 22:16
That palace of his has 1,000+ rooms and 1.2 million sq.ft, 64 elevators....I could go on...

obgraham
17th Jul 2016, 22:54
Unlike any of you here who might have had to work in Turkey, I've only been there twice, both times as a tourist.

I found the Turkish people in all the service areas I encountered to be among the friendliest and helpful of anywhere I've been. Sure, they mostly wanted to sell me something at a "special price", but it was done with a smile and no rancour when I declined.

It's unfortunate that those folks are now having a hard time even surviving, through the determined efforts of their own bad government and their co-religionists. I truly feel sorry for their situation.

Machrihanish
17th Jul 2016, 22:56
That palace of his has 1,000+ rooms...

Redundancy = safety.

By the way. All those resorts on the riviera will handle even longer term bookings at short notice. They'll be glad about solvent customers, read public servants.

Win-win across the board hands down.

Metro man
18th Jul 2016, 01:06
A coup attempt is a perfect excuse for a purge of the system and installation of those whose loyalty is known into key positions. In many cases people will have shown their true colours and Erdogan knows who he can trust.

For those who backed the wrong horse, the Midnight Express prisons are waiting.

galaxy flyer
18th Jul 2016, 01:27
The CIA, DIA and NSA are clueless on other big events like, say, the Fall of the Wall; why would anyone believe they are so all-knowing? Funny, they are either idiots or all-knowing. In fact, just a bunch of average GS-13s trying to make it to retirement alive.

GF

SASless
18th Jul 2016, 01:36
Yea....them Paper Cuts are pretty terrible if you are not careful while you are shuffling all those files around on your Desk.:E

Cazalet33
18th Jul 2016, 08:37
For those who backed the wrong horse, the Midnight Express prisons are waiting.

The Orient Express, all the way to Victoria Station in London, more likely.

There will be many tens of thousands of chancers claiming political asylum in the UK on the back of this failed putsch. Every one of 'em will subsequently demand free pratique for their extended family, ten to forty members usually.

BusyB
18th Jul 2016, 09:27
I find it difficult to believe Erdogan was not behind this pathetic coup attempt.

It seems obvious that he was not threatened personally at any time and this now gives him the excuse to rid Turkey of all those who would oppose his clamping down on Free Press, Justice and democracy.

MrSnuggles
18th Jul 2016, 09:35
Reading on other social media, I get the feeling that Turkish people reporting from Turkey seems to think this was surprisingly convenient choice of time and place for a coup. According to the collected view of those Turks with access to Internet, they

-fear/look forward to

a more stringent rule from Erdogan, using this coup as an excuse to

-plunge the country into medieval islamic times/free itself from the tyranny of the US.

I'm thinking there are no more talks about Turkey entering the EU now.

Sallyann1234
18th Jul 2016, 12:35
The whole thing stinks.

It was just too convenient an opportunity to get rid of judges and police who might not be fully in tune with the Party line.

lomapaseo
18th Jul 2016, 12:50
The whole thing stinks.

It was just too convenient an opportunity to get rid of judges and police who might not be fully in tune with the Party line.

Whether planned or not, the response is historically similar to previous successful despots in history.

I expect we'll view it as such as long as he remains in power.

The bigger issue is whether any outsiders will attempt to have any influence on the long term outcome.

(seeing as this is Jet Blast and I can freely post with drink in hand), I wonder what difference it would make if they simply merged with bordering countries under one strong ruler?

Lonewolf_50
18th Jul 2016, 12:59
It is not at all credible that the CIA, the DIA and the NSA were unaware of the plot before it kicked off.

For one thing, the ringleaders would have discreetly sought the nod from The Empire. And so the conspiracy theories return. In a word, no, not in 2016. Maybe in 1953.

Lonewolf_50
18th Jul 2016, 13:05
(seeing as this is Jet Blast and I can freely post with drink in hand), I wonder what difference it would make if they simply merged with bordering countries under one strong ruler? Which bordering countries? The Bulgarians may not be too keen to see the return of the Turk. The Arab/Turk antipathy isn't forgotten either. The Kurds don't want to merge with anyone, they want to unmerge from both Iraq and Turkey, and likely Syria.


Mr Erdogan might have to pull a Mehmet III deal if he wants to merge much of anything ... and so doing will get him crossways with Iran in a big hurry. Not seeing it.

G-CPTN
18th Jul 2016, 21:15
Inside Turkey's £500 million palace (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3696037/She-silk-wallpaper-bathroom-2-000-roll-Super-spending-habits-Turkey-tyrant-s-shopaholic-wife-laid-bare-two-million-coup-hit-country-earn-3-day.html).

ExDubai
18th Jul 2016, 22:23
Don't know why but for me it looks similar like 1933 when the Nazis introduced the so called enabling act of 1933.

fitliker
19th Jul 2016, 00:12
I wonder what is on the menu in the canteen where the Germans AF ,the USAF , the Turkish AF ,and soon to be Russians AF will be eating. Will they all be at the same base at the same time or will they rotate in and out like Spandau ?


What could go wrong ?

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 01:20
Don't know why but for me it looks similar like 1933 when the Nazis introduced the so called enabling act of 1933.

What's Turkish for "Patriot Act"?

megan
19th Jul 2016, 06:52
It was just too convenient an opportunity to get rid of judges and police who might not be fully in tune with the Party line.Agree. Never let an opportunity go to waste Sally.

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 11:36
The ultimate "conspiracy theory": Erdogan was behind a plot to overthrow Erdogan.

Now I've heard everything and, yes, I heard it first right here on PPRuNe.

ExDubai
19th Jul 2016, 11:39
The ultimate "conspiracy theory": Erdogan was behind a plot to overthrow Erdogan.

Now I've heard everything and, yes, I heard it first right here on PPRuNe.
Not really, Erdogan himself described the coup as a gift from Allah. Certain media came up with the plot...

Edit: remember 1933, the plot regarding the torching of the german parliament.

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 11:59
Ah! So Allah was behind the plot; and Erdogan was behind Allah.

Now I understand the gist of the "conspiracy theory".

Kulverstukas
19th Jul 2016, 14:37
With 14 navy ships are missing are we back to Pirates of Caribbean... err... Mediterranean?

G-CPTN
19th Jul 2016, 14:41
Apparently, Erdogan had a list of the coup participants before the incident.

Kulverstukas
19th Jul 2016, 14:49
Apparently, Erdogan had a list of the coup participants before the incident.

If he did not have such a list his whole Secret Service must be fired (literally) immediately ;)

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 14:56
Would now be a good time to reunite Cyprus?

Lonewolf_50
19th Jul 2016, 14:56
With 14 navy ships are missing are we back to Pirates of Caribbean... err... Mediterranean? Well, if they are at sea and not in contact (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/several-turkish-navy-ships-commanders-missing-since-coup-attempt-1571298), there is only so much fuel in their tanks.
Then what?
Caz:


Would now be a good time to reunite Cyprus? Not so sure. That would give the sitting government a foreign enemy to try and rally the people to fighting. I think the political rhetoric would be along the lines of "this is proof that (outsiders/Greeks/Brits/etc) were behind the attempted coup."

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 15:18
Buggah! Some nice beaches in the North of Cyprus, y'know.

notapilot15
19th Jul 2016, 15:26
HBO got its script for The Purge 2017. This was so well scripted, he must have planned it for years.

Any idea what is his end game? Most of the west is now dumb found and have no clue how to deal with him.

Rwy in Sight
19th Jul 2016, 15:29
Cazalet33

How about Mr. E. knew about the coup but decided to let it happen?

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 16:23
I don't doubt the The Empire knew what was afoot. That is beyond most reasonable doubt.

I don't doubt that Erdogan had some inkling too.

I don't doubt that he did everything in his power, as rapidly as possible, to ensure that the counter-democratic coup was thwarted.

He moved swiftly and wisely and invoked democracy. The Empire fukkn hates it when that happens and he will never be forgiven, but that is what happened.

He clearly recognised the pattern of what happened when The Empire overthrew democracy in Egypt and he recognised how to thwart such a military coup.

He's a cunning bastard, right enough.

Lonewolf_50
19th Jul 2016, 16:31
Given the US sent dependents home in March, the instability in Turkey was likely perceived as more than the usual. When and where and who? Another story.


Erdogan having an inkling ... yeah, he didn't get where he is by being stupid. I am sure he has little birds and sources all over the nation keeping an eye on people he worries about.

Uncle Fred
19th Jul 2016, 17:07
Normally I tend almost toward the pedantic when looking for rigor in the discussion of foreign affairs. I had the opportunity to observe a number of scenario simulations to have an inkling of the requirement for extreme precision when diplomats and states make pronouncements. I well understand the emotion that often wishes to just open a can of Whiskey Alpha and have at it--even if it might be just throwing blind punches and is destined for failure.

Obviously this same rigor is not to be found in all news organizations, but I would put forth that we do not give the good editors and reporters the credit they are often due when they are trying to bring out a story.

However....with Turkey and the coverage it is getting in the English, French, and German publications I have to admit to being gobsmacked. They keep using phrases that are well placed in the subjunctive--"Turkey could drift toward despotism. Edogan could be drifting toward autocratic rule.

You think??? What is it with all this could, if, might, etc. nonsense. The man is cracking down with a fist made of iron and editorialists the globe over are admonishing to slow the pace lest the democratic institutions of the land are in danger. Again, you think?

He has to be laughing at us.

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 17:40
Democracy is a bitch. Ain't it?

notapilot15
19th Jul 2016, 18:03
This ain't democracy. Even the worst dictators took more time to quash coups in their countries.

No on can fire thousands of judges and call themselves a democracy.

Vacation, coup attempt,destruction of selective property, facetime calls to CNN, call to raise against coup, thousands already on streets , coup over, thousands arrested, back to normal by sunrise.

Way too convenient.

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 18:17
Even the worst dictators took more time [to] quash coups in their countries.

Can you spot the syllogism in that?

notapilot15
19th Jul 2016, 18:49
Can you spot the syllogism in that?
The word democracy never crossed my mind in any shape or form. Hope it helps.

I have no issue who he is? I have no issue if Turks support him. My only concern is how my government thinks he is an ally.

meadowrun
19th Jul 2016, 21:53
6,000 military personnel have been arrested, with more than two dozen generals awaiting trial
Nearly 9,000 police officers have been sacked
Close to 3,000 judges have been suspended
Some 1,500 employees of Turkey's finance ministry have been dismissed
492 have been fired from the Religious Affairs Directorate
More than 250 staff in Mr Yildirim's office have been removed.
More than 15,000 education staff in Turkey have been suspended after last week's failed coup, as a purge of state officials widens still further.
More than 1,500 university deans have also been ordered to resign and the licences of 21,000 teachers working at private institutions revoked.


You don't get those kind of numbers, that quickly, without many, many files in hand before the fact.

G-CPTN
19th Jul 2016, 22:04
Turkish Stasi?

Cazalet33
19th Jul 2016, 22:33
The word democracy never crossed my mind in any shape or form.

....

My only concern is how my government thinks


Yup. That's how it works.

baggersup
20th Jul 2016, 14:08
Yesterday, it was rather surprising to see a story in a big UK newspaper reporting that in the reporter's view, Turkey's acceptance into the EU had hit a "snag." Yikes. A snag? How about a brick wall?

He made it sound as though Turkey had had a minor problem on a par with one bad year of debt ratio problems or something.

The fact that the reporter's work was purporting a strong possibility of Turkey still being admitted into the EU at some point in future astonished me. Or did I miss something?

Kulverstukas
20th Jul 2016, 15:23
strong possibility of Turkey still being admitted into the EU at some point in future

Quite easy - Erdogan just need to shoot down two more russkies planes for that. At least two - one for Poland and one for Estonia ;)

MrSnuggles
20th Jul 2016, 15:25
baggersup

Yep, you missed the fact that Erdogan doesn't give a hoot about Europe anymore and he is using the migrant crisis as a tool to extort EU to do his bidding. This is a very compressed summary, but nonetheless true.

This is why I am adamant that EU should gather all ELECTED head of states/foreign ministers and sort out our own problems, independent of Turkey or other states going rogue. I saw that some kind of EU foreign spokesperson did some kind of statement. Honestly I had no idea EU even had a spokesperson representing ALL of EU. I can do without that, thankyouverymuch.

Kulverstukas
20th Jul 2016, 15:40
I can do without that, thankyouverymuch.

Good to see good old europeans getting back to their sense. Hope my next visit to Stockholm I will be not afraid to cross this pedestrian tunnels between Slussen and Södermalmstorg because of scary looking guys speaking nokhchiin...

Lonewolf_50
20th Jul 2016, 16:38
Good to see good old europeans getting back to their sense. Hope my next visit to Stockholm I will be not afraid to cross this pedestrian tunnels between Slussen and Södermalmstorg because of scary looking guys speaking nokhchiin... Hmm. Is that the language spoken among Chechens? :confused:

MrSnuggles
20th Jul 2016, 17:31
Kulverstukas

If you ever visit Stockholm, please give me a shout out, I can show you around! :-)

Cazalet33
20th Jul 2016, 17:37
Is that the language spoken among Chechens?

When I was young, I thought chechens were small furry creatures that scuttled around on the sawdust and wood-shavings floor of a small but humane cage and ran around in a treadmill, not actually going very far in their lives.

Was I far wrong?

Kulverstukas
20th Jul 2016, 17:46
If you ever visit Stockholm, please give me a shout out, I can show you around! :-)

Note taken ;) And same if you ever been in Moscow. Is there good spotters places at Arlanda BTW?

Kulverstukas
20th Jul 2016, 19:50
Oh my God! It was hot in Turkish skies!

https://theaviationist.com/2016/07/18/exclusive-all-the-details-about-the-aerial-battle-over-turkey-during-the-military-coup/

MrSnuggles
21st Jul 2016, 08:20
Kulverstukas

There are som awesome spotter places at ARN - even provided by the airport. As a local, I have my own little gems though. You can get some great pictures with a tripod and some camera patience.

I also have a nice picknick place very conveniently placed at BMA/ESSB.

TO THE TOPIC

I read in Swedish news that someone, somehow, jammed the radar? flew in formation? to stop Erdogans holiday jet to land. This was just a notice in the paper (yes, analogue), but I wanted to share it with you. Maybe anyone here knows some more?

TWT
21st Jul 2016, 08:45
I read that Erdogan's Gulfstream crew just changed their squawk code to one used by a Turkish Airlines commercial flight,but you'd think there'd more to it than that.Perhaps someone with knowledge of fast jet interception techniques will oblige.I don't think that much of what is being reported is truthful anyway.

Peter-RB
22nd Jul 2016, 10:08
Possibly this is Erdogan's way of squeezing more Brass out of the EU, he could be letting all the recents through and then saying " Er well go on then,.. OK I will take em back ..But I want another 6bn Euros" Cash please..No credit!!:E

sitigeltfel
29th Jul 2016, 16:59
On Sunday, 30,000 Erdogan supporters will hold a march in the centre of Cologne. Many of his detractors are also planning to join in the fun. The authorities feel that 2000 police should be sufficient to contain their exuberance.

Lets see what Monday brings?

Lonewolf_50
29th Jul 2016, 18:26
If only someone could induce a soccer match to be arranged as well, some British soccer fans could be induced to show up and add a little life to the proceedings.

Chesty Morgan
29th Jul 2016, 18:36
Badum tschhhhhhh....

meadowrun
29th Jul 2016, 20:19
On Sunday, 30,000 Erdogan supporters will hold a march in the centre of Cologne.


Aren't they in the wrong country for that?
No one cares erdogan supporters.

PAXfips
30th Jul 2016, 10:17
Erdogan sees "deficits" with freedom of speech in Germany.

I'm just leaving that here w/o further ado.... :)

Kulverstukas
30th Jul 2016, 11:55
http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/4ae4608025998f657a589020f54499e88519092d.jpg

Mixed feelings :(

TWT
30th Jul 2016, 12:14
The preparations have begun.Will the parliament allow the re-introduction of capital punishment ?

Kulverstukas
30th Jul 2016, 12:34
Democratic government of Iraq hanged their former leader. Democratic Libyan rebels just shred their former leader to pieces (approved by "Wow!" from democratic president candidate of most democratic country in the world). Why democratic parliament of NATO member and EU candidate can't?

Fareastdriver
30th Jul 2016, 13:16
'Hainler Mezarligi': 'Traitor's Graveyard'.

tony draper
30th Jul 2016, 13:45
Time those chaps in Langley started to work on modifying cigars again.:uhoh:

Lonewolf_50
30th Jul 2016, 16:03
Whose cigars, Tony? Erdogan's or Gulens?

Kulverstukas
30th Jul 2016, 17:31
Both :) :}

DirtyProp
30th Jul 2016, 18:56
Aren't they in the wrong country for that?
No one cares erdogan supporters.

Yes indeed, they are in the wrong country.
The problem is that they could care less about that.

I wonder what would happen if the same thing would take place in Turkey. A bunch of foreigners showing their support for a foreign govmt.
Would they allow it? Hmmmm.....

ORAC
4th Oct 2016, 09:25
Looking more and more like a nascent dictatorship. What was it Erdogan said; "Jordan’s King Abdullah recounted telling details of a conversation: “Erdogan once said that democracy, for him, is a bus ride … 'once I get to my stop, I’m getting off’ ”.


Turkey suspends 12,800 police, tightening clampdown after failed coup | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-3820873/Turkey-says-suspends-12-801-police-alleged-links-cleric-Gulen.html)

ANKARA/ISTANBUL, Oct 4 (Reuters) - Hours after announcing a three-month extension of a state of emergency, Turkey suspended 12,801 police officers on Tuesday, saying they had suspected links to U.S.-based cleric Fethullah Gulen, whom Ankara blames for orchestrating July's failed coup. In a statement, Turkey's national police headquarters said 2,523 of those suspended were police chiefs. The overall number represents more than 5 percent of Turkey's entire police force.........

President Tayyip Erdogan has taken unprecedented steps to rid state institutions of staff deemed disloyal or potential enemies since the attempted coup on July 15. About 100,000 people in the military, civil service, police, judiciary and universities have been sacked or suspended from their jobs, and 32,000 people have been arrested.

Tuesday's move came hours after deputy prime minister and government spokesman Numan Kurtulmus announced that a state of emergency imposed shortly after the failed coup would be extended for a further 90 days when it expires on Oct. 19. The emergency powers allow Erdogan effectively to rule by decree, with his decisions not subject to oversight by the Constitutional Court, Turkey's highest legal authority. Parliament is expected to wave the extension through.......

In a further sign of the government's desire to move quickly to quell opposition, Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said on Tuesday the judicial process needed to be speeded up, especially when it came to suspected coup plotters. "One of the main goals is the shortening of sentencing times," he said at an economic conference. "We are starting this with the July 15 coup plotters. We are doing this quickly."........

Tu.114
4th Oct 2016, 16:17
A while ago, Erdogan found a poem by a German satirist (Mr. Böhmermann) slightly to his disliking, seeing that it implied amourous relationships between him and goats among others. In Germany, slander of or insults towards foreign heads of state are only investigated on the slanderees request and such a persecution also requires the approval of the German government. True to his self, Erdogan demanded persecution of Mr Böhmermann, and much to the surprise of many Germans, the German goverment approved of the investigation.

Today, the responsible state attorney at Mainz decided against taking Mr Böhmermann to court (http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/tv/jan-boehmermann-verfahren-wegen-erdogan-beleidigung-eingestellt-a-1115140.html) on this matter. He has ruled that there is insufficient grounds for a legal case and illegal acts were not to be proven with the required certainty and accuracy. The poem is covered by the German Freedom of Speech, namely the Freedom of Arts. "The fact that a piece of art conveys a certain opinion does not detract from its status as art. The contribution in question [which is the poem] is a satirical work and ought to meet this requirement."

There is a lesson on legal systems in there for Mr. Erdogan, I think. Although praising Ms. Merkel seems not to be the custom around here, I do salute her decision as it has brought out the difference between the legal system in a semi-dictatorial country vs. the same in a developed democracy quite nicely.

obgraham
4th Oct 2016, 20:19
I doubt that Mr Erdo-goat-man would have much success on this side of the creek. Although we do have some nice looking goats, both wild and domesticated.

reynoldsno1
5th Oct 2016, 01:51
Turkey suspends 12,800 police, tightening clampdown after failed coup | Daily Mail Online
It seems that this "failed' coup has been a bit of a success for Mr. Erdogan

tdracer
5th Oct 2016, 23:18
Unsuccessful coup? Looking more like a successful purge...

iceman50
6th Oct 2016, 02:57
tdracer

+1

All a con!

ORAC
23rd Nov 2016, 06:23
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/22/turkey-erdogan-presidency-referendum-akp-nationalist

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has been given a major boost in his quest to transform Turkey into a president-led republic, after nationalists in parliament signalled their support for a controversial proposal to amend the constitution and allow him to stay in office until 2029.

In a move that lays the groundwork for a possible historic national referendum in the spring, Devlet Bahçeli, the leader of the nationalist bloc, said on Tuesday the proposed amendments to grant more powers to Turkey’s presidency were reasonable. Erdoğan’s ruling Justice and Development party (AKP) is likely to table a bill for a referendum on the constitution in the coming months, and nationalist support would now allow the motion to pass. According to details of the amendments leaked to media outlets in recent days, under the proposal Erdoğan would be able to continue in office until 2029......

Erdoğan was set to run for a second term as president in 2019 when his current term expires, and govern until 2024 if he wins. According to a draft of the bill, seen by Reuters, he would assume the powers of the executive presidency immediately after the referendum, but the electoral clock would reset in 2019 and he would be allowed to run for two more five-year terms.

The alliance between the AKP and the nationalists, who have long shared an electoral base, is likely to dominate a new order led by the president, particularly amid rising tensions with Turkey’s Kurds. Violence has intensified in recent months in the Kurdish-dominated south-east after a peace process aimed at quelling a decades-long insurgency collapsed.

Lonewolf_50
23rd Nov 2016, 13:21
He appears to have learned a few things from his neighbor to the North, Mr Putin.


Question for people who like the EU: do you really want Turkey in your club? Really?

vctenderness
23rd Nov 2016, 14:36
Anyone interested in a very nice property in Turkey? On this basis it will,probably be pretty cheap....

WhatsaLizad?
23rd Nov 2016, 18:52
Question for people who like the EU: do you really want Turkey in your club? Really?


If the Western Europe birthrates stay at the current low rate, in 100 years the E in EU will be replaced by an O for Ottoman


Membership in their club will be mandatory,

DirtyProp
23rd Nov 2016, 19:19
Question for people who like the EU: do you really want Turkey in your club? Really?

Sure, when hell freezes over!

Sallyann1234
24th Nov 2016, 09:01
Turkey joining the EU is the Brexhitters' own Project Fear.

Turkey fails to meet just about every requirement for membership and is actively moving in the wrong direction. In addition, as a member of the EU we could block its application for as long as we wished.

If, in many years' time, it became sufficiently civilised to meet every one of the criteria for entry, that would seem to be an excellent result. But the world would be a very different place by then.

meadowrun
24th Nov 2016, 13:02
Is no other EU country going to take a stand against Turkish membership?

ORAC
24th Nov 2016, 13:27
Yes, they are.....

European Parliament votes to suspend Turkey's accession talks - POLITICO (http://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-votes-to-suspend-turkeys-accession-talks/)

core_dump
24th Nov 2016, 13:28
Turkey fits right in with all the other turkeys in the EU. It's going to fail anyway.