New Russian/Indian Aircraft Carrier

[ORAC]

Russia Offers India Nuclear Aircraft Carrier (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/navy/2016/07/11/russia-india-nuclear-aircraft-carrier-storm/86937106/)

NEW DELHI — Russia has offered its nuclear aircraft carrier, dubbed "Storm," to India for purchase, a senior Indian Navy official said. The offer comes as India and the US discuss the transfer of technology for India's future nuclear aircraft carrier, the INS Vishal. A diplomat with the Russian Embassy confirmed that a Russian team visiting India last week made the offer.

Krylov State Research Center (KSRC), a Russian shipbuilding research and development institute, is designing the carrier, also known as Shtorm or Project 23000E. "First revealed in May 2015, the Project 23000E multipurpose aircraft carrier is designed to conduct operations in remote and oceanic areas, engage land-based and sea-borne enemy targets, ensure the operational stability of naval forces, protect landing troops, and provide the anti-aircraft defense," the Navy official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

India plans to build its second homegrown aircraft carrier, INS Vishal, which will be nuclear-powered, 300 meters long, 70 meters wide and displace 65,000 tons. "The choice [India's] is to have a nuclear powered carrier, technology for which will not be easy to get, and international help will be needed by India in the design and development of the super carrier," Nitin Mehta, an independent defense analyst, said.

Russia has already overhauled and modernized a Kiev-class carrier-cruiser, renamed INS Vikramaditya, for the Indian Navy from 2004-2013 in which they "gained valuable insights into carrier-building techniques through that process," Mehta said.

The US, meanwhile, has offered the electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS), which is does not include nuclear propulsion technology and is unavailable for the Russian carrier, according to the Indian Navy official. "EMALS is a major attraction because it is flexible and allows variety of aircraft to come on the deck including the lighter, homemade light combat aircraft and heavy fighter aircraft," he said.

India and the US have formed a joint working group on aircraft carrier technology cooperation, but there is no discussion so far on offering nuclear technology for Indian aircraft carrier.

India has still to decide whether to buy the super carrier or build it locally.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/23000-line1.gif

Thehttps://i1.wp.com/www.janes.com/images/assets/452/51452/1634522_-_main.jpg

[peter we]

Once bitten twice shy?

Wil the Indians fall for it again?

[KenV]

Hmmmm. It has a ski jump ramp AND catapults? Interesting concept. I wonder how they'll make that work.

[Arclite01]

They will build that themselves I bet...............

Non-nuclear powered though (this time around)

Arc

[t43562]

It's a pity (for the UK) they can't build the UK design with EMALS - then fill it with lots of systems purchased from the UK. :-)

[ORAC]

Alert 5 » Aircraft carrier concept by Krylov State Research Center - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2019/07/10/aircraft-carrier-concept-by-krylov-state-research-center/)

Aircraft carrier concept by Krylov State Research Center.

Seems to be nuclear powered. Angled deck looks to have 3 catapults, EMAL? Two blast plates for conventional launch via the ski jump. No sign of edge lifts with only 3 single aircraft sized lifts marked on the main deck.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/image_c135423b267cbf6cb13fd562f35ca4932d19efb7.jpeg


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/image_6bb83c06bc2acc9858952f015aed020d24f06f2c.jpeg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/image_13e9645d91c35cdc582b4512a7ea81ce0487fe50.jpeg


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x1024/image_ff9ffba144b41b8c6aa65028ec8b60457a91a71a.jpeg

[Asturias56]

interesting concept but have they the money and the shipbuilding capability

TBH its what the UK should have built.....................

[ORAC]

The biggest differences between the concept at #1 and the latest are the larger deck, with what appears to be more catapults , and the deletion of the edge elevators, or at least the side projections which previously marked them out.

[melmothtw]

If it's development is as smooth as the Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft or the Multirole Transport Aircraft, we should see this joint Russian-Indian carrier enter service in.....never.

[Asturias56]

Any mention of size & weights?

[Davef68]

I can't see catapults on either Russian design

[melmothtw]

I can't see catapults on either Russian design

Me neither. There's a groove on the model along one of the ski-jump yellow-lines which I think has been confused as a catapult track by the poster.

[NutLoose]

Didn't the sailor chap that invented the skijump register the design patent in his wifies name, thus ensuring they would get compensated when the RN used it, as at the time he was serving, so he would have got naught. I wonder if the Ruskies pay her a royalty?

[PhilipG]

Do the Russians not have a slight problem in where are they going to build something of this size, the previous ones were built in what is now the Ukraine and the floating dock that they used for refits, as I recall sank. Or is the idea that the Indians build it?

[ORAC]

The first carrier design had a ski-jump on the angled deck as well as the prow. The painted converging lines also indicated they did represent catapults.

The revised design sign eliminates the angled deck ski-jump, as well as widening the entire deck, and the painted lines are now parallel rather than converging. Both of which I take as an indication that they have fitted catapult(s) to support launches both at higher weights - together with the fact that they are working in an EMALS......

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/russian-supercarrier-coming-soon-electromagnetic-launch-system-currently-being-tested-for-a-future-carrier-navalised-su-57-likely-to-follow

[ORAC]

Yet another design option.

Is it parking outboard of the island, or an elevator? The catapults are more obvious, and plainly for use by the AEW aircraft.

Alert 5 » Russia?s new Project 11430E CVN has an interesting island design - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2019/07/11/russias-new-project-11430e-cvn-has-an-interesting-island-design/)

Russia’s new Project 11430E CVN has an interesting island design

The ship is both Catapult Assisted Take-Off But Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) and Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery (STOBAR) capable.

What is interesting is that the carrier’s island has been shifted inwards to allow jets to park on the starboard side of the island. The mast is also similar to the British Type 45 destroyer’s design.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x960/image_4a27d086fd8b453dbd8a56c4ac85586f5fc24f8c.jpeg

[Davef68]

Is it parking outboard of the island, or an elevator? The catapults are more obvious, and plainly for use by the AEW aircraft.

What is interesting is that the carrier’s island has been shifted inwards to allow jets to park on the starboard side of the island.

Which I think confirms no catapults on the earlier two designs (The second has the landing deck only on the angled deck).

The inboard island is a feature from the Bristish CVA-01 project in the 60s


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/300x146/cva_01_other_side_de084c42dd03362be1bd8c05afe5ab274d8cf050.j pg

[Lonewolf_50]

I remember back in the 80's the Indian Navy operated a Charlie Class SSGN (maybe more than one?) but it was "under lease" and they made the decision not to keep it/buy it. A Naval Attache-type guy I know, who served in India in the early 90's, explained to me that one of the reasons was that the MoD and others did not feel that the national infrastructure necessary to support nuclear propulsion ship was sufficiently developed.
It's 30+ years later.
Is the national industrial infrastructure now in a place where that's more achievable?
For an example of how the industrial base has matured, India is building organic/domestic helicopters now which wasn't so 30 years ago.

As an outsider, I have no stake in this game, but I am encouraged to see a step forward. IMO, nuclear powered carriers are the better idea if you can support them. That takes more than just money (though a lot of that is needed); it takes a robust national industrial infrastructure and some niche skills/capabilities to do so.

On a related note: why the US offered the EMALS but seems to be declining to support the nuclear propulsion angle has me a bit puzzled.

[etudiant]

On a related note: why the US offered the EMALS but seems to be declining to support the nuclear propulsion angle has me a bit puzzled.

Maybe Donald Trump told them to dump it? He's yet to opine on nuclear power afaik. but has been outspoken about EMALS.

[West Coast]

I remember back in the 80's the Indian Navy operated a Charlie Class SSGN (maybe more than one?) but it was "under lease" and they made the decision not to keep it/buy it. A Naval Attache-type guy I know, who served in India in the early 90's, explained to me that one of the reasons was that the MoD and others did not feel that the national infrastructure necessary to support nuclear propulsion ship was sufficiently developed.
It's 30+ years later.
Is the national industrial infrastructure now in a place where that's more achievable?
For an example of how the industrial base has matured, India is building organic/domestic helicopters now which wasn't so 30 years ago.

As an outsider, I have no stake in this game, but I am encouraged to see a step forward. IMO, nuclear powered carriers are the better idea if you can support them. That takes more than just money (though a lot of that is needed); it takes a robust national industrial infrastructure and some niche skills/capabilities to do so.

On a related note: why the US offered the EMALS but seems to be declining to support the nuclear propulsion angle has me a bit puzzled.

Given India’s chief concerns are somewhat nautically in different directions yet are still somewhat regional you’d think quantity would drive the issue. Either they’re gonna field a number of nuke carriers for them to be effective or this is a national pride exercise.

[TEEEJ]

I remember back in the 80's the Indian Navy operated a Charlie Class SSGN (maybe more than one?) but it was "under lease" and they made the decision not to keep it/buy it. A Naval Attache-type guy I know, who served in India in the early 90's, explained to me that one of the reasons was that the MoD and others did not feel that the national infrastructure necessary to support nuclear propulsion ship was sufficiently developed.
It's 30+ years later.
Is the national industrial infrastructure now in a place where that's more achievable?
For an example of how the industrial base has matured, India is building organic/domestic helicopters now which wasn't so 30 years ago.



The Indian Navy currently lease an Akula from the Russians. On a 10 year lease from 2012.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_Nerpa_(K-152)

The first of the Indian Navy Arihant Class SSBNs was commissioned in 2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Arihant

[Asturias56]

can the Russians actually BUILD a carrier anymore - I though they had a serious shortage of space and kit

[Lonewolf_50]

The Indian Navy currently lease an Akula from the Russians. On a 10 year lease from 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_Nerpa_(K-152)
The first of the Indian Navy Arihant Class SSBNs was commissioned in 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Arihant
TEEEJ, you are the goods. THanks for the update.

[TEEEJ]

TEEEJ, you are the goods. THanks for the update.

No problem, Lonewolf. Thanks for the reply :ok: